A Columbia University Student Speaks Out

We are going to talk directly to a Columbia University student. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us today on the Line of Fire, Michael Brown. It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. If you have a Jewish related question, whether it's regarding the war in Gaza today or Israel itself, whether it's biblically based, theologically based, if it's a Jewish related question, if you're a Jewish listener or viewer and you personally don't believe that Jesus Yeshua is the Messiah, you'd like to talk with me, here's the number to call 866-34-TRUTH. 866-348-7884.

Call now, we'll get a good chance of getting to your call as the show goes on. I do have some news from Israel we'll be sharing with you. And I do want to comment on International Court calling for the indictment of not just Hamas terrorist leaders for war crimes, but Prime Minister Netanyahu and his defense minister as well.

We will talk about that. But first, I was not in the least bit surprised with the protests at Columbia University, the encampment, the level of anti-Semitism there and anti-Zionism that crosses over into anti-Semitism. I was not surprised at all because I had known about what was being taught at different universities, ideologies that were being espoused for years.

I was aware of pro-Palestinian movements on campuses in America for years that were actually not just pro-Palestinian, but anti-Israel to the point of being anti-Semitic. And I knew folks that were at some of these schools and had contacted us directly. One we interacted with exclusively via email, but now we're actually going to talk to on the air and, hang on, Elizabeth was there and then just lost her for one minute. Yeah, yeah, so we're about to have her come on. So, I was just giving the intro, setting things up. So, Elizabeth, as soon as we get you connected once again, going to bring you on, and I want you to talk about your experience at Columbia.

There's a document that was put out by Jewish students at Columbia University, eloquent and clear and powerful. And yeah, a very, very powerful statement. Maybe we'll get into some of that later. But Elizabeth, welcome to the line of fire. Hang on for some reason.

There we go. Elizabeth, welcome to the broadcast. Thanks for joining us. Hi, Dr. Brown. How are you?

Doing very, very well. I'm so glad that you said that you'd be happy to talk about these things on the air because we've been dialoguing a few years behind the scenes through my team. So, Elizabeth, how do you and I connect? How do you know of our ministry in the first place? Well, I had actually gone to the Brownsville Revival years and years ago when I was a brand new baby Christian. And then over the years, I'd seen you interviewed for various books you had written. And then when everything turned upside down in COVID, I decided to take some Bible classes on the side just for fun and reached out to your ministry for that. So that's how I first personally connected with you all within, I think it was March or April of 2020.

Right, so always as a Christian, as a believer, that's the perspective for which you come. And then you are at Columbia University. So, Elizabeth, you're not going just as a young person there. You're in in grad school at Columbia. What program were you in? Yes, and I wasn't just not a young person.

I was well into middle age. I was in the Master of Science of Epidemiology. I had already earned the Master of Public Health. And my emphasis, not at Columbia, at Kent State University, and my emphasis has been in policy. And so my purpose to going to Columbia was to further, just in an effort, to further drive the data of my area of interest. And so I really needed to get on the research track at a top-tier school.

That's what led me to Columbia. All right, so you're there as a mature Christian woman with a strong educational background and now wanting to drive your research deeper out of personal interest and out of your career. So you didn't come in there as a Jewish student or as an activist or anything.

That's why I want people to hear this background. How is it then that you began to run into the anti-Semitic attitudes environment there on the campus? Okay, so just to summarize it very briefly, I do want to acknowledge that I was from a household that was, my father was living as a secular Jew, raised in a home. Dad was a secular Jew. He was a much older father, had been in World War II. My mother was a much younger bride.

She was nominal Episcopalian. So I had a very secular upbringing. I was radically saved in my 20s.

Here I am. Gosh, I had just turned 50 by the time I got to Columbia. So I'm well into my walk with Jesus, but I've always been aware of anti-Semitism because of who my father was, my last name. So when I arrived in New York City, at that point I'd been living in Ohio. When I arrived in New York City in 2019, just the undercurrent of anti-Semitism hit me very strongly. And the only way I can describe it is I think that the culture there was so used to it, it wasn't as apparent to them. So I was aware of just the undertones of anti-Semitism. But in the fall of 2019, a couple of things happened. First was the Students for Justice for Palestine were very vocal, and they were really pushing for boycott divest and sanctions against Israel. Another thing that happened was there was a really renowned Romanian-born professor of the arts that was leaving Columbia due to his concerns over Columbia.

What he felt was Columbia's push towards communism, etc. So I was just noticing this tone that seemed very Marxist, oppressed or oppressed, and all that was on my radar early on in 2019. And I can't stress enough that for whatever reason, when you see those Marxist comments, you'll often find anti-Semitism around the corner. And yeah, Elizabeth, I appreciate you giving further details of your background.

And I'm glad you mentioned your dad being a secular Jew. But I didn't want anyone to think that you came in there, for example, as a hardcore Israeli Jewish activist, you know, wearing a Jewish star, like looking for trouble or something. Quite the contrary, this caught you off guard.

I remember when the emails were sent to me from my team, that this completely caught you off guard. And I had been aware. All you did was confirm what I already knew, but confirmed it in a firsthand way. So you're saying you didn't run into this environment prior to this, prior to moving to New York, and prior to being at Columbia, and your educational upbringing up until then. It's not like you were just spotting this everywhere. You see anti-Semitism everywhere. This surprised you.

It absolutely did. And in fact, I was so comfortable that anti-Semitism was behind us, that when I reached out to your team, I said, I'm embarrassed, but you all need to educate me. Even though I'm the daughter of a man, my father's now deceased, even though that I'm the daughter of a, quote, Jew, I had no information from which to draw from in how to navigate what I was having to face on campus. And so I was, I was really, I would have been lost without you all. And I just want to say, before I say anything else, I can't thank your ministry enough for the integrity you all showed me. There's not time to suffice to say, but thank you for just the thoroughness and also just how protective you all were of my privacy, even in that time. Well, absolutely. Of course, absolutely. By the way, I realized that you'd said you're coming on with your full name.

But I had only referred to you as Elizabeth for that reason before I realized that everything on screen has your full name, etc. So I appreciate you willing to come out and speak about these things publicly and boldly. So just to understand this, tell me more about the Marxist narrative. You know, if you talked about this years back, people think you're making it up.

Now it's hard to deny. But how did you run into this, the colonizer, colonizer, press repressed? How did you run into this on the campus? Well, first, keep in mind, I was from the public health sector, which is very much steeped in this oppressed or oppressed narrative.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to get away from. But whether you're talking about the LGBTQ community, or white supremacy, or any other, defund the police, any other argument, on the Columbia campus, everything was wrapped, at least in the circles I was in. They are wrapped in this oppressor oppressed victim mentality mindset that really puts people into groups that, you know, some call it identity politics. But people start to be identified by their skin color, by the group they belong to.

And of course, we do all tend to gravitate toward groups, but we're individuals first. And I, I was concerned because when the, I'll just abbreviate SJP for Students for Justice in Palestine, when SJP was really pushing their narrative in the fall, you know, I noticed that I kept hearing the language about the patriarchy. You know, I kept hearing how the white supremacist patriarchy is oppressing, you know, this people group and the patriarchy, I've realized there, what they mean deep down is Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So this oppressing group links back to those that affirm Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, those that affirm Israel's right to statehood. You can't, it's unfortunate, but you can't separate one part of the oppressor oppressed narrative from another. They all, whether you're talking about transgender rights or Israel, they all kind of bleed into each other. Yeah. And that's, I appreciate the articulate way that you're, you're laying this out.

Again, it's become so obvious, friends, and I've got a lot more questions for Elizabeth. I'll ask on the other side of the break, but it's, it's become so obvious when you hear the protest, when you see the rhetoric, it's BLM 2.0. Now it's, it's, it's Israel and Gaza. And it has nothing to, for example, during the BLM protests, the issue was not to black lives matter. Of course, every, every single black life matters, of course, 1 million percent, but the BLM movement with its Marxist queer ideology that was fueling other forms.

That's why some of the same people that were involved in the, in the BLM protests and Antifa riots and things, they're very same people involved now. And who's the ultimate, the ultimate evil entity. It's the white European male colonizer epitomized by not just the American white man, but by the Zionist Jew.

That's, that's a simple narrative and people bought it hook line and sinker. We'll be right back with my guest, Elizabeth Harley. If you'd like to call in with a Jewish related question, the sooner, the better. 866-348-7884. This is Michael Ellison founder of Trivita Wellness. Would you like to know a way to support strong hair and nail growth, a way to support healthy skin and a healthier gut?

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us. All right. Thank you friends for joining us on Thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

Some Thursdays I forget the music is coming. Thanks for joining us. I'm speaking with Elizabeth Hardy who is a grad student at Columbia University describing the Marxist mentality that was pervasive in the SJP, the Students for Justice Palestine group and then came out in other ways. But then Elizabeth, when you were confronted with this with outright anti-Semitism, what did you do? What was your response as a grad student there? Okay, well I mean just to let you know how quick people, how thick anti-Semitism was under the radar even more than I realized was what happened was there was a with Black Lives Matter on campus, this is late May early June of 2020, of course we're all in lockdown everybody's dispersed but we're still very much connected virtually. On the private graduate school thread for the College of Public Health on the medical campus there was dialogue about how to approach defunding the police and the quote white supremacy that goes along with it. As someone that's very passionate about policy I knew that you know we need to have we need to have them provide terms and definitions for what they're referring to when they say white supremacy and so I just posted the question on a private thread now this is about 800 students and keep in mind many are foreign nationals so a lot of a lot of eyes are on these threads globally and my question was I wasn't even arguing that they shouldn't pursue what their passion was I didn't agree with it but they can pursue it but my question was how are you going to define white supremacy and I said for instance on the main campus which is the undergraduate Morningside campus we were up at the New York Presbyterian Hospital campus I said on the main campus some students are referring to white supremacy as those who recognize Israel's right to statehood that was it and that one statement caused an explosion I could I was shocked I really did not think just asking the question was going to cause an explosion and when that and within minutes it wasn't even five minutes before the feedback started coming in and the feedback that was coming in had comments such as how could I how could I even begin you know how can you Elizabeth even begin to recognize Israel an apartheid nation as having a right to statehood things along that line so it came at me hard and so when that happened I just I realized I was in over my head and I quickly reached out to Ophir Dyan who is the daughter of the former general consul of the Israeli consulate in New York City she was an undergrad at the time I reached out to her for just advice on what direction to go and she connected me with some Jewish professors that had a lot of wisdom and I'm so grateful to them and they were very courageous I will say that the unfortunately the handful of believers that I knew they wanted to stay very much in the background when they saw what was happening to me and so I was really on my own and so that's and then that is when I formally reached out I think it was Brandon your yes director of the ministry school so I reached out to Brandon first and that's how I got on that track and then after that I just I realized well I'm being cancelled as we speak by the student body and if that happens on a university setting you know that your chances for teaching opportunities are pretty much non-existent and so I I saw very quickly well this my my aspirations are not going the direction I thought that God had other plans and and it just kind of unraveled from there but I I believe in hindsight the Lord had me there to to speak up against what was happening and not just leave it to the Jews as usual to defend themselves that as Christians we need to be voicing our support of them and Elizabeth what did the professors the Jewish professors say to you were they surprised to hear this did they talk about how they feel on campus what was their response no they really weren't surprised um they they did think I mean they knew it was bad they knew things were were getting worse but at Columbia the professors that I was in contact with and I will protect their privacy now they've some have since come out but um that's their decision to to speak but the ones I spoke to um at length they thought that the the same old same old was going to solve this wave of anti-semitism so for instance Columbia had at that point just entered into a dual degree program with Tel Aviv University so the professors thought that was going to do the trick that that was going to provide new bridges new contacts and that will just you know will grow into a new phase they um a lot of professors at the medical campus still Jew and non-Jew believed that this was just a wayward undergraduate problem that they would grow out of it they were just exploring the world and I kept saying this is not a 25 and under problem this is this is everywhere this is and I kept trying to explain this is at the the the medical campus which is only graduate students and so I I think they were all just hoping that policies and they just get to know us and see that we're really nice people and that we're caring yes that's a simple way yeah extraordinary and they did not in any way recognize this is spiritual warfare why would they they don't have the holy spirit so I I realize this is spiritual warfare and and you know and heavy yeah absolutely hey we we've just got uh two minutes before the break you've been so clear articulate and Christian your approach I deeply appreciate it just tell me though what was your response when suddenly Columbia erupts with this encampments and the protests what was your response when you you saw that happening in the news oh I it wasn't if it was when I knew this was coming because the the undertones had never been addressed and the spiritual climate had only gotten worse from what I knew so there was no surprise but I will say this if if a few hundred students camping out in tents can turn Columbia University upside down what can we as the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit accomplish if we will unite if we will unite if we will unite as believers there's no stopping what we can do for the Lord yeah amen to that and that sounds like someone who has touched at the Brownsville Revival many years ago and shared in some of our fire school ministry classes yeah a hundred percent a hundred percent not by taking over but just by living out our faith and being bold and ashamed and and what if we had prayer meetings and crying out to God together and things are happening behind the scenes of many of these campuses but they they need to rise up and again for me same as you there was no surprise whatsoever seeing this happen across the nation because I've known about SJP and these other groups for years and some of what's behind it for me though the degree to which the Marxist mentality has become so prevalent that was almost a surprise to me not the anti-semitic part but that the mindset is just so widespread but that it's been the strategy it's been the long march and as I wrote my new book Turn the Tide we need the long march back in the other direction but it's going to be sparked by believers coming together hey Elizabeth thank you for handling this with maturity and grace and and speaking out clearly today you have helped many may God's blessings be upon you I appreciate it thank you Dr. Brown blessings to you all all right that was Elizabeth Hardy and so glad to have her on the air all right I'm going to come back Andre you get to weigh in on the other side of the break and then your calls whatever subject you want to talk to me if it's Jewish related though I'll take your call 866-344-TRUTH but I've also got some news important news I want to talk about including Norway Spain and Ireland so we get a recognized Palestinian statehood hey friends Michael Brown here my delight to serve as your voice from world sanity and spiritual clarity we are living in such urgent times today friends that all of us are in the line of fire there's a target on your back there's a target on my back if you simply seek to live by biblical values or just conservative moral values you could be canceled you could be cast out you could be put down you could be silenced I'm here to say friends that I am not about to be silenced and I don't believe you are either it is time for us to stand up it is time for us to say enough is enough it is time for us to push back in Jesus name not fighting the way the world fights no overcoming evil with good overcoming hatred with love overcoming the flesh with the power of the spirit overcoming lies with truth and that's what we're here to do on the line of fire broadcast and friends it's not just a broadcast it is a movement of people around the world God's people standing up saying enough is enough and saying Lord here we are send us use us I want to urge you today to join our support team because we are on the front lines together and we are literally touching people around the world in America in the nations in Israel and together with your help we're going to amplify this voice and spread this movement around the globe so I encourage you go right now to the line of fire.org the line of fire.org click donate monthly support the line of fire.org click donate monthly support when you do you become a torch bearer we immediately send you two great life-changing books we immediately give you access to many classes I've taught others have to pay to take those you get them for free exclusive video audio content a new audio message every month an insider prayer newsletter 15 discount online bookstore so much more join our support team today go to the line of fire.org donate monthly support it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome back friends to the line of fire shalom shalom on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday hey all of our friends in Israel join me June 9th through 11th King of Kings in Jerusalem seminar on the Holy Spirit revival times of refreshing in the midst of the agony and pain we just need a fresh encounter with God so that'll be the 9th through the 11th we'll be getting out more information on it but all friends that are in Israel I'd love to see you there it's going to be Sunday that's 5 in the evening the service of King of Kings then a meeting for leaders ministry leaders only Monday afternoon then open to the public Monday night and Tuesday morning then from there we go right into Shavuot Pentecost so we're really just praying that God would meet us in a fresh way and can't be there by be praying are there any of the meetings gonna be live streamed I'm not sure probably the Sunday night service I'm not sure about the others but just everyone in Israel June 9th through 11th I hope to see you there okay let's go over to Andre in Richmond what's on your mind sir how you doing Dr. Brown once again I want to thank you for your decades of service and for the Brownsville participation revival and for your ministry of apologetics and answering major questions that deal with the issues of the day well what I have is a question regarding the church being the bride and Israel being the bride and I just have some ideas concerning it I'm not dogmatic about it but I just wanted to use that to find out if you have any points that would help cover this subject but it revelations chapter 21 it talks about come let me show you the Lamb's wife and again it says when he addresses the Lamb's wife he shows us the 12 gates of the 12 tribes and the foundation of the wall right the new Jerusalem is what he shows in that vision there yeah which as you're saying has the names of the 12 tribes of Israel in the gates and the names of the 12 apostles on the foundations of the city yeah yeah but it doesn't address the church and Paul uses a metaphor in Ephesians regarding the church being the bride but he's talking about relationships more than he's talking about the believers so I just wanted to get your view on that and seeing because in the Old Testament we see Jeremiah being God is married to the backslider and that Jerusalem he led through the wilderness as a husband takes his wife and that he brought them to himself out of all the nations of the world and I see the but the church is more the body of Christ more in the groomsmen on which we are standing with Christ on behalf of Israel the bride so I just wanted okay yeah interesting interesting yeah um you know just thinking of some scripture as as you're speaking so number one historically you have we have to realize all these are metaphors right because Israel is also his son so if Israel is his son then how can Israel be his wife right so right so these are these are all metaphorical images you know he's he's the creator he's the husband he's the father these are all different ways that we relate to him so it's the same with the church you know being the body of Christ and then we are we are sons and daughters of the father but brothers and sisters of Jesus and yet also in a relational way the bride of Christ so I think that what I would say sir is I would not put things in things in in strict categories in other words I would not put things in this is the bride this is the body this is the son because we're also called the temple which is inanimate and we're living stones so Ephesians 2 and 1 Corinthians 3 we're the temple of the Holy Spirit and 1 Peter 2 we're living stones in the temple but we're also a kingdom of priests who minister in the temple so I look at all of these as rich images through which we relate to God in different ways for sure the extended imagery of of of God being a husband to Israel very extensively laid out in terms of Israel committing adultery when it would worship idols as in Jeremiah 2 or in Ezekiel 16 so I would agree with you that the image of Israel as as God's wife is spelled out in much greater detail in the Old Testament than the analogy of the church being the bride of Christ in Ephesians 5 but those things are there as well there is that relationship of love and devotion and and and spiritual union that a husband and wife would have but that God has spiritually with his people so I'd look at it I love I love what you're what you're saying and you're thinking on it I would just say rather than either or I'd look at it as as both and as both and as lots of different dimensions to the relationship that we have with God and to to lean into all of them as part of it one thing though it's important to understand just like when God said about Israel Israel is my son my firstborn well where does a woman fit in that is is that woman God's son well she's part of the nation which God says is his son is firstborn in the same way if a man says well how are we part of the bride of Christ is a man part of the bride it's not an individual is the bride but the corporate entity so thank you for the question and your thinking much appreciate it let's go over to Emmanuel in Dallas welcome to the line of fire thanks for calling Dr. Brown thank you for having me it's a pleasure to speak with you thanks go ahead yeah so you know I've been I've been watching your show here for for the last couple of weeks and I've been really intrigued by this topic on the discussion of of the lost tribes and and who the lost tribes really really are I'm specifically and personally concerned with the with the materials around the Igbo tribe of Nigeria and I've seen and heard you kind of take a couple of different positions and I've seen a lot that's been written about it in terms of the recognition or the acknowledgement of of of that tribe or that group of people being truly linked genetically so one to get your thoughts on that piece and then secondly if that is the case given you know what the data indicates that you know approximately 60 percent of African Americans in the country are descendant of of the Igbo tribe you know vis-a-vis the slave trade would that not somewhat validate some of the claims I'm not even you know I'm not coming from the perspective of of a black Hebrew you know Israelite you know you know fundamentalist I've just been intellectually intrigued by the argument but if the Igbo reality is true and the data is seeming to confirm that wouldn't that somewhat validate some of the claims at least of a subset of of the groups that are claiming this designation vis-a-vis their connection as Igbo descendants if that makes sense yep yep I fully understand it that would be one of the arguments that would be raised you know by people I've had some online interaction with like Dante Fortson or others that that would be their argument that the Igbo people so I-G-B-O in Nigeria trace their roots back to the people of Israel and a large percentage of slaves that were brought over from Africa were from that part of Africa and from that tribe therefore a large percentage of African Americans would have Israelite heritage so the flaw with that is number one that it is that widespread throughout the Igbo people this is a substantial group of people and to my knowledge it is not that there is this overwhelming data of the overwhelming number of people having clear lineal descent back from one of the tribes of Israel but rather some but rather some among them making a valid claim so that that drops the percentages drastically so I do believe that some that came over from Africa did have some Israelite roots it was not just a matter of identifying you know once they they began to read the Bible and became Christian now they identified with the slave because they were slaves so they identified with the slaves in Egypt and and now they they took on this identity and you know that's the argument that some would use that it's all fictional it's just they took out that identity because they're slaves they're reading in the Bible about the slaves like we're the same people for some it was a spiritual identity but for others there seems to be practices that were preserved or things in their background but as far as I can tell percentage-wise and the the gentleman that I've worked with who is a historian a black Jewish historian that is the best expert I know on this he would put the numbers much lower than the than the claims of Dante Fortson or or other guys or someone's become a friend now a girl a Hebrew or you know I mean we interact in a friendly way I debated on the air so that that would be the issue the numbers the percentage that some have Israelite heritage I don't deny for sure for sure don't deny that at all but the percentages the numbers that are put on it that's what seemed highly exaggerated to me as if all the Igbo were descended from the tribes of Israel and somehow now preserve that heritage as opposed to massive intermarriage with others that only a certain percentage of the Igbo would have Israelite roots and then out of that only a percentage of that made it over as slaves so yes some slaves that came over could make a claim for Israelite heritage but it's a very small percentage as opposed to a large percentage that's that's where the difference the difference would be and as I understand and that's and that's the thing that's why I think I kind of get confused because when I hear you talk about it you know sometimes you know there's a there seems to be you know in terms of in terms of what you would consider fitting within the definition as you know passing passing the test right there seems to be you know a quantitative arm to that analysis in terms of the of the genetics but then but then there's also a a cultural preservation practice piece to it let me just say this the the almost at a time but let me just say this quickly number one cultural heritage can be lost you know it's happened with for example many the the unassumed there the jews who were forced to convert rather than die they converted under catholicism but it was outward they preserved their jewish identity then it got lost so there are many hispanics that realize they have they have jewish blood and they are the descendants of of people who were forced to convert so that can happen the culture can be lost but if you're if the dna evidence and the best we can reconstruct historical evidence is going to be one percent or two percent of someone's background genealogy that doesn't classify you as israelite if five percent of your genealogy and no cultural heritage for 30 generations or 20 generations is going to classify you as israelite no of course not of course not of course not so it's it's both and but i appreciate the questions very much thank you sir i'm paul brunette a board-certified doctor of holistic health and i want to introduce you to trivita's multi-collagen formula if there was ever a message i would want the world to hear it would be about the 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you do use the code brown25 so it has been announced that three nations have said that they will recognize the statehood of israel so ireland has said that they will norway has said that they will spain has said that they will and it's created quite an uproar they're not going to recognize a palestinian state first thing what does it mean what is the palestinian state just theoretically so is it what is currently now called the west bank under palestinian authority and gaza that's the state is that the state as is then who governs the state and what now they may have more details in the statement i'm just saying first what does it actually mean and since the palestinians are divided you have you have palestinian authority in hamas and they are at war when hamas took took power in 2007 and was voted into power by the people of gaza it was a brutal reign of terror against against palestinian authority i mean they they mutilated people in the midst of this and this has been ongoing it's happened before uh so who what does it even mean and and based on what just okay we're now recognizing this how about the fact that the two state solutions have been rejected each time they were presented to the palestinian arab leadership in the past in 1937 and 1947 what what magically changed things now and what protection is there if you're going to say gaza is part of it and gaza the kamos and kamos says israel has no right to exist then how can they be part of a palestinian state and be neighbors i mean what does it even mean it's outrageous you say well don't you care about the palestinians i do yes yes i do and i i will read things about what they're suffering on the war in gaza and some of the some of the horror the firsthand horror story so i'm sensitive to their suffering because i'm much more in tune with what's happening in israel what's happened to my own people there so i i want to do my best to educate myself of the suffering of the palestinian people and to hear stories and i've done it said firsthand tell me your story when in the land in bethlehem when i kept brawn let me hear your story i want to understand so that's not the issue the issue is pragmatism the issue is okay if you still have many of the people want your destruction how you can be neighbors side by side and if you and if you're in a life and death struggle now with hamas and other terrorists has belong the north and so on and then continued uprising in judea samaria as many side with hamas there the situation continues to get more and more volatile we recognize too says what does it even mean how does it help doesn't doesn't we talked about potential solutions and to me it's somewhat pollyannish but it's the only way i could see things happening is if the other moderate arab leadership got involved got rid of the corruption of the palestinian authority in hamas get rid of the radicalism of hamas in particular and some that exist among palestinian authority some of them already and said let's really be neighbors with israel we'll work out the statehood thing in a little while let's be neighbors and let's work together economically educationally with with no threat of terror to israel and and with with israel not threatening uh the palestinians let's let's be neighbors and let's move for economic prosperity and let's move for the better educational opportunities for our children and freedom and now then living side by side and coexisting to a mutual benefit then we can talk about one state two state etc but how can you even make that statement okay one of the thing in the news jerusalem post following report and the daily mail that was just released to come as terrorists the father and son confessed to raping innocent israeli civilians before killing them on october 7th it gives the names of those involved um just yesterday a video was released yesterday day before from some of the families of hostages with some of the female soldiers as they're being taken hostages i mean it's just horrific i saw idea footage from october 7th this is different still and they're bloodied and they're terrified and and then they're the men are talking in arabic you know these are the ones we can get pregnant and stuff and just just horrific so the father describes how he had raped a crying woman october 7th while holding her at gunpoint and after 15 minutes he left her but did not know what happened to her afterward according to the son's confession however his father did not provide the investigators with the entire truth the son said his father killed the woman after she was raped by multiple people including himself my father raped her then i did that my cousin did and then we left but my father killed the woman after we finished raping her another one was raped by the two terrorists as well as two more people who were raped by the father the report said saying he confessed to having raped another girl as well that he had broken into five houses the testimony has arrived two months after a report concerning sexual violence incidents on october 7th delivered by premila patin special representative the un journal secretary the report said patin's report was based on interviews with multiple october 7th victims and survivors as well as investigating the bodies of victims at different morgues it was a catalog of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing torture and other horrors the daily mail quoted patin saying remember the un was really slow to move on this and really slow to speak on this given their historic anti-israel bias but they had to the evidence was too overwhelming and now even confession people opening up to it what horrors and eyewitnesses who reported what they saw it's mind-boggling horror mind-boggling horror and whatever you think israel's doing in gaza and and the starving people or are they bombing civilians whatever whatever you think they're being accused of bear in mind no one's accusing them of going around raping the women i mean maybe some crazy person is but no that's that naira is not there because it doesn't happen it doesn't happen and as for international court calling for the indictment of war crimes netanyahu is his defense minister uh galant and then and then and then um along with hamas leaders what what a horrific injustice have there been any excesses any atrocities on any level anything at any point after the war where israel will be held accountable they could have done better could well be bear in mind when israel has killed civilians outrightly killed civilians knowing and it comes out a sniper took these out or or these were aid workers and and their their vehicle was bombed israel's publicly said we did it and we blew it we did it and we blew it and it was unintentional look israel killed three of its own hostages that escaped they mistook them for terrorists i mean that that shook the nation to the core the guys courageously escaped and were trying to send out an sos and they were killed by their own people it's estimated that 20 percent of israeli soldiers dying are dying through friendly fire so there are mishaps and missteps but no israel is not intentionally trying to wipe out the people of gaza or commit genocide god forbid to the contrary whereas that is the intent of hamas to compare the two it's absolutely immoral all right with that with that we go back to the phones let's go over to brian in louisville kentucky welcome to the line of fire hey dr brown appreciate you having me on um just a quick question that has always been on my mind um as far as obviously you know the scriptures uh promising that the land of israel belongs to the jewish people and then we read in the new testament i'm a messianic you myself we read the new testament that the church has grafted into israel has there ever been a movement other than i guess maybe the crusade for the idea that jews and christians would both have uh rights to the land of israel because if the church is grafted in you it almost seems like you could say and before the end times even because i know the end times people believe that the jews are the ones who are in times people believe that the jews will be safe but like today in 2024 it could be a judaeo christian land no uh no no no no real notion for it for the crusades had nothing to do with that crusades didn't look this as jewish land they looked at it as christian land they had to be retaken and christian holy sites it had nothing to do with being grafted in and this is no it had to this is a christian land and it's come under christian domination and the christian holy sites are there and the muslims are not allowing us to have access etcetera that's first thing the second thing is the grafted in is a spiritual heritage not a physical heritage if it's a physical heritage then the requirements of the law would have been given and gentile christians would have had to be circumcised and and added in like that and what paul says in first christians three is the whole world is yours the whole world is yours uh even if you know they're professing two and a half billion christians today let's say it's half of them are real believers right that's that's over a billion people are not going to fit there in the land so we get to inherit believers in general get to inherit the whole world and though this was specifically for the physical descendants of abraham eisenhower jacob a homeland for them out of all the nations whereas believers in general are scattered all around the world and have many many different homelands but this was the one physical homeland for the physical people i'm sure people have agreed with the sentiment and said no this is our promised land too and israel belongs to us too and because we're christians and we're grafted in but no that theology would have been foreign to the new testament uh just like requiring gentile christians to be circumcised was foreign to the new testament but thank you for the question i appreciate it may the blessing and smile of the lord beyond you we're going to tackle some really important difficult questions tomorrow you don't want to miss the broadcast