Was Satan a Worship Leader in Heaven?

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Broadcast, Michael Brown delighted to be here with you. 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-348-7884. Any question of any kind that relates in any way to anything we ever talk about on the line of fire, anything ever written about, spoken about, any context, questions you want to clear up, things you've heard that you're trying to get to the truth about, 866-348-7884.

The same number for friend and for foe. Before we go to the phones, two things. I had a good chat with Charlie Kirk last night about the bill, the anti-Semitism bill that I discussed on the air yesterday. I made clear that my whole focus yesterday was the question, does the definition that was provided by the IHRA, International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, the definition of anti-Semitism that was adopted in this bill, does it forbid, does it preclude portions of the New Testament that would allegedly be called anti-Semitic? And I said absolutely not. It does not.

What it would say is it is anti-Semitic to accuse all Jews of being Christ killers or to say that a modern Israeli is a Christ killer because of what happened in the New Testament, etc. That's all the bill is dealing with. So I went through that with Charlie as we chatted and suggested there were really three separate issues. One, is the bill a good bill or does it infringe on any way in freedom of speech? That's one question. Totally fair question.

Of course, he would have grave concerns about that. Second question, could the bill potentially be misused? Even if the language is clear, could it be misused? Another fair question. So those are totally good, fair questions to debate and discuss. Is the bill itself good and helpful?

Does it have the real potential of being misused? And then totally separate issue, what does the language of the bill actually say? That's what I addressed on the air yesterday. And it's amazing, some of the extremely shrill, hostile, angry comments, maybe I'll share some with you later, that came in for me just telling the truth about the bill.

All right, one question we're going to start with and then go to the phones. Have you ever heard it taught that before his fall, before Satan became Satan, when he was a high level archangel in the presence of God, that he was the worship leader in heaven? Have you ever heard that taught? Well, where it comes from is Ezekiel chapter 28. Ezekiel chapter 28 verse 13, it's addressing the king of Tyre, but then it's speaking about the spiritual powers behind the king of Tyre.

And obviously it's going into the spiritual realm. Some look at this as a picture of Adam in the garden, but I look at this as a picture of Satan before the fall, of this high level angel, this exalted being that took it on himself to be like God and was cast out of heaven, and is a ruler over many on the earth, is the God of this age, et cetera, and hence the one behind the empowerment of the king of Tyre. And it says in Ezekiel 28, 13, I'm going to read in the King James, that has been in Eden, the garden of God, every precious stone was like covering the sword, his topaz, and the diamond, the barrel, the onyx, and the Jasper, the Sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle. The gold, the workmanship of thy tabres and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created. Now, you'll see that most other English translations do not translate with tabres or tabrets and pipes. And you'll see many, many other translations. For example, if I just look at the, oh, what's here, ESV, which is quite typical, Ezekiel 28, 13, it says, oh, let me just scroll down, it says there at the end of that verse, sapphire, emerald, carbuncle, and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings.

On the day that you were created, they were prepared. So it just speaks of beautiful engravings in most English translations. However, what's interesting is when you look at the actual Hebrew there, there are a couple of words that are used. Now, of course, these other translations are looking at the same Hebrew. One word is tupayik, and this would normally have to do with the tof, which was like the tambourine, but with a little bit of a percussive sound on it. And so that's where the King James gets your tabrets from.

And then the second word that's used comes from a root that would have to do with hollowed out, hence the sense of pipes. And if you look at many Jewish commentaries, traditional Jewish commentaries, they understand this about musical instruments. So if, if, if the text does say that, if it does speak about musical instruments and not just engravings, which is also a possible reading, does it tell us that this archangel, this powerful being, was a worship leader in heaven?

It actually doesn't. That's a stretch. There is nothing in the Bible that says that Satan before the fall was the worship leader in heaven. And you say, well, is there a worship leader in heaven? Well, we know there's worship. There might have been a worship leader. There might be a worship leader in the future.

But there's nothing in the Bible that says that Satan was the worship leader in heaven. You may have heard it taught widely. You say, well, he certainly understood the power of music. Well, that's self-evident. He didn't really understand the power of music as an exalted angelic being. Yes, obviously. And it's possible that he had something to do with music. It's possible. But the reading of the Hebrew is uncertain.

It could well be instruments, but it's uncertain. And it certainly doesn't say anything about being a worship leader there. So just be careful about making these kinds of jumps. All right, with that, let us start with Jim in Chicago. Welcome to the line of fire.

Dr. Brown, great to speak with you, sir. So 1 Corinthians 11, 29, and it goes into 30. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

So two questions on this, sir. The first one is this judgment. I mean, it seems to me this judgment comes from God. However, there are some that say, like, this judgment is what somebody brings because they're a glutton.

Like, they eat too much, so they bring sickness on themselves. It seems to me like this is a God-bringing judgment, so that is my first question. The second question would be, it appears based on the fact that when it talks in 32 that we are judged by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. I'm assuming that these are Christians that have got the judgment of God. What do you think about that?

Yes, so I appreciate the questions. Number one, this is definitely not speaking of gluttony and the results of gluttony. Yes, earlier in the chapter, it's speaking about you come together for the Lord's table. And remember, this was not like serving communion during a service.

This would be part of your meal. And these Corinthians were showing up and eating all the food and getting drunk on the wine, and therefore despising that this represented the body and blood of Jesus. So yes, they were guilty of gluttony and drunkenness, but the judgment is judgment from God.

It is something that He's brought on them in judgment for failure to recognize what they were partaking of and to do so in a carnal way. So it certainly is not what you bring on yourself through gluttony. That's dealt with elsewhere in Scripture, and self-control is the fruit of the Spirit, and warnings about our stomach is not our God, etc. So gluttony is certainly a sin, and gluttony has lots of harmful consequences, but that's not what is in view there.

That's not about sowing and reaping. That's about incurring divine judgment. And secondly, yes, without question, this is a matter of judgment beginning with the house of God. God does not condemn His children.

That's what it's saying. If you judge yourself, then you won't be condemned with the world. You won't suffer the fate of the world. There is no condemnation to those who are in Messiah Jesus, according to Scripture. We will not be doomed and damned to hell if we are in Jesus. But Hebrews 12 does say that God chastises His own people out of His love, and 1 Peter 4 does say that judgment begins with the house of God. And it could well be, in the case of Ananias and Sapphira, it says that great fear fell on the whole church. It could have all been that they were believers, and this was not a judgment on unbelievers, because great fear came on the whole body. That they were believers, and they conspired to do something very ugly, and God made an example of them. Doesn't mean they went to hell, but their lives were cut short in this world.

So yes, that does happen. And the idea that, and look, I firmly believe in divine healing. I firmly believe that healing and health are God's ideal will for His obedient children, although we don't always see these things fully in this world. It's ultimately in the resurrection that we'll see the fullness of healing and life. But I believe in divine healing. I believe that sickness is fundamentally bad, and healing and health are fundamentally good. And that through the New Testament, sickness, disease are associated with demons, with disobedience, heavily associated with disobedience in the Old Testament, and yet God brings judgments, because He is God, and He's sovereign. And whether He lets Satan do something, whether He sends an angel to do it, whether He lets us reap consequences of our sins, whether He stretches out His own hand, there are all different ways that He works. But it's definitely divine judgment here. And even, one other question, I'm sorry, but would you then, even that be for our good, because He's saying here, I did this so you wouldn't be condemned along with the world, or am I missing that?

Okay. No, exactly. That's the whole thing. That the ultimate mercy would be being taken out before we turned away. That's the whole thing in 1 Corinthians 5, where the unrepentant sinner is given over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh with the hope that his spirit would be saved. Meaning that he may suffer terribly in this world, and may even die, but that would wake him up to reality, to the costly consequences of sin.

And rather than forfeiting his soul, gaining the world or having a sexual sin or whatever, and losing his own soul, instead, his spirit would be saved on that day. So absolutely, it's in the mercy of God. And listen, God Himself is good, and everything He does is good. And just like when a parent disciplines a child and spanks a child, it may not feel good at that moment, it actually stings, but it's for the purpose of good. On the flip side, God does not torment and torture His children.

He doesn't think, what can I do to... Okay, I'm going to bless this one with cancer. Let's say I'm going to bless this one with a car wreck and their bodies being mutilated.

How else can I bless them? No, that's not who He is. So He is a healer. He is good. Everything He does is good.

But there are times when He brings discipline and judgment to save us from something far worse. Yeah, we are in sync. Thanks for the questions. You bet.

Amen. Alright, 866-342. Okay, there is something very rare for Friday afternoon, but I'm looking at a bunch of open phone lines. Could be that we've had a pre-recorded few shows recently, and you got out of the habit of calling in, but phone lines are wide open. I'll be taking more calls on the other side of the break. Also, we haven't done this in a while, but go ahead and post your question on YouTube. If you have a question and you can't call in, go ahead and post it on YouTube, and our team will be looking for some of your questions on YouTube to give me the answer.

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If not, sign up today. Okay, with that, we go to the phones. Let's start with Michael. And I am sorry, but my screen is just giving me slight trouble so I know who you are, but where you are, Michael? Salem, Missouri. Salem, Missouri.

Okay, I saw the Salem and I didn't see the Missouri part. Thank you. All right.

What's up, sir? Hey, I was wondering. I've seen it. First of all, I want to commend you on your theology, the way you explain things.

It's awesome. I've seen a video of can demons possess a Christian that you, I think it was maybe a year ago, and I might be wrong on that or give or take. But it was really good. So I shared it on Facebook, actually, because I was having some arguments with some Christian friends of mine. But then I also seen another video with you with one of the guys that actually does the demon, they cast them out. And so I was wondering, and it was kind of like that you were agreeing with them. I was wondering, did you change your view? Or was, is there some kind of clarity that I could, because I was, it kind of confused me is what I'm trying to say.

Got it. Yeah, so probably it's when charisma interviewed me together with Alex Pagani, who'd be one of the guys that's known for deliverance ministry these days. So I didn't know exactly where he stood on things. But as we talked, it seemed that a lot of our viewpoints were the same, that no, a Christian cannot be possessed by a demon. That was one thing that we agreed on. And that to a demon cannot inhabit the human spirit along with the Holy Spirit. It seemed we agreed on that. But that demons can take control in other areas of someone's life can overwhelm their mind or or attack their body and need to be driven out, because there's somewhere that they don't belong.

So that's, that's been my view for many, many years. You know, and I don't divide over that. But it seemed that when that happened, that he was glad to see that we actually had agreement or that helped clarify his views. In other words, that he was misunderstood, etc.

So I can't speak for Alex or his ministry or anything like that. But yeah, I didn't change any view. I, I didn't articulate it any differently. I'm aware of. So do you remember specifically, sir, where it was that you got confused between the two videos?

Well, the video, the first video I've seen was on YouTube, it was a one of the in the line of fire, I believe it was running on a fire, right. And then the other one was I, I'm trying to, I think it was on Facebook. But yeah, it was with the gentleman that you're speaking of that has the deliverance ministry. And that's when I was I was kind of listening on that. And I was like, Hey, hold on a second. And yes, that's what sounded different. What sounded different to you?

Well, what sounded different is when he was he was he was so glad that you could agree with him or something. And I was like, hold on a second. And he was like, so I guess, parts of your body might be possessed or something like that. I'm like saying, I was thinking, well, I possessed, possessed is the wrong word to use.

We talked about coming under. Now, I what seemed interesting to me was when I stated the view that I've always held to exactly on the same video that you watched, the short one, that that he was thrilled to hear me say that because that's what he believed also. So in other words, the question was, has he been misunderstood by others? Or did he present things a certain way that gave a certain impression? And again, I'm not speaking for or against Alex or his ministry. That's a totally separate thing.

And I haven't worked with him in any depth or anything like that. You know, that interview is the most interaction we've ever had. But the point is, for example, Luke 13, there is a woman there, a daughter of Abraham, who has been crippled by a spirit for 18 years. So there is a demon grabbing hold of her body and crippling her for 18 years as a daughter of Abraham. And Jesus set her free on the Sabbath day.

So I believe that can still happen. I've always believed that could happen or that a believer could open their mind up to the enemy and come under oppression to the point that they can't break free. They need deliverance. They've given place to lies and they need deliverance. They're not possessed by Satan. If they were possessed by Satan, then Jesus could not be their Lord. But is the devil somewhere in their life where he doesn't belong? Is there a stronghold that needs to be broken? Yeah, that can happen. And that's when we would take authority over that spiritual power in Jesus' name and drive it out.

It's somewhere where it doesn't belong. And that's what we would deal with. But can a demon inhabit the spirit of a human being along with the Holy Spirit? Certainly not.

Can a demon possess a follower of Jesus? Certainly not. So those have been my views. They've been the same all the way through. And perhaps if you, with that clarity, go back and listen to the other interview, maybe it would fall into place a bit more. But my views remain the same on that.

Never changed for many, many years. Right on. And also, possession, we know that's ownership, which they shouldn't have used probably for that translation because it's more of a, what, demonized is what it means? Yeah, I mean, the NIV still uses demon-possessed, but many other translations have moved away from it and would make a strong case that demonized is the better translation. So it's coming under the power of Satan in some way or another. And we'd agree that believers can do that.

The question is to what degree and in what circumstances. Hey, thanks for calling for clarification and for the kind words. I appreciate it. Hey, thank you.

All right. 866-34-TRUTH. Let us go to Jonathan in Jackson, Mississippi. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello, Dr. Brown.

Hey. I just, I didn't get to call in yesterday and I wanted to say what I think may be one of the main things behind the spirit of anti-Semitism and the rise of anti-Semitism in the country and the world. I think a lot of it may be connected to what people believe about conspiracy theories like the New World Order and what they think of banking families like the Rothschilds and things like that. And in the Muslim world, I think a lot of them still think the protocols of the learned elders of Zion is actually truth and where they don't know that it was proved to be a lie in the 1920s by the Russian secret police or was created by the Russian secret police or whatever. And I feel like the Holy Spirit showed me that people in the occult are doing occultic activities that are driving the devil to stir up more anti-Semitism. And if we as the church will pray for Asbury-like revivals on our campuses that God will counteract this and get these young people saved and get them where they're not deceived by the devil and are actually turned and see that Israel is the good one and Hamas is the bad one. Yeah, hey, Jonathan, I appreciate all the comments.

I was only jumping in because time was short. But for sure, the rise in conspiracy theories and then the fact that some things that society has been telling us have not been true so that further fuels the false conspiracy theories, right? And always who's the one, the ultimate one that's pulling all the strings and behind it? It's the Jews. So when belief in conspiracy theories increases, the Jews get blamed more. And certainly Satan wants to stir up a spirit of Jew hatred wherever he can. May that revival come, may there be an outpouring on our secular campuses and the opening of the hearts and minds of many of these young people who are on the wrong side right now. And may God pour out his spirit on Israel and bring his people Israel to salvation. Hey, Jonathan, thank you for the call. We'll be right back.

Hey friends, Michael Brown here. My delight to serve as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. We are living in such urgent times today, friends, that all of us are in the line of fire. There's a target on your back.

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And I don't believe you are either. It is time for us to stand up. It is time for us to say enough is enough. It is time for us to push back in Jesus name, not fighting the way the world fights. No overcoming evil with good, overcoming hatred with love, overcoming the flesh with the power of the spirit, overcoming lies with truth. And that's what we're here to do on the line of fire broadcast.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, thanks so much. All of you are monthly supporters or torchbearers. Come on, give yourselves a hand. Thanks for helping us make an impact around the world. Thanks for helping us stay on the front lines of reaching our Jewish friends with the good news of the Messiah. Thanks for helping us spark revival in the hearts of believers all over America and around the world.

Had an awesome ministry trip to Italy. You go with me every step of the way. Every broadcast we do, you are part of it. Those that want to join our support team, go to the line of fire dot org, click donate monthly support. Alright, let us go over to Jim in Acworth, Georgia. Welcome to the line of fire.

How you doing, doctor? I've spoken to you twice before, but it's always an honor to talk to you. I love your points and the way you explain things.

Thanks. You weren't born in Georgia, were you? No, I'm in Jersey. That's why I asked.

Boy, I love your testimony because you're a Long Island boy. That's what I said. Yep.

Yeah. What's strange is when I was talking to the person who answers the calls to review what you're going, I couldn't hear what you were speaking about, but then it came in once I got off with him and you were talking about the demonic possession. And I watched a video by Dr. But Dr. By Rabbi Schneider on the very same subject this morning. It was kind of so strange when you clicked in or I flipped into you and I heard what you're talking about with that gentleman. I went, Oh my gosh, I was just watching a video about possession and how you described it just the same way Rabbi Schneider did. But my question was, yeah, it was so strange.

I went like, this is ordained. My question is, do you, does the Bible, I know we believe angels are mentioned numerous times, but can I get your take or what you believe? Do we have guardian angels? Is there an angel assigned to each one of us?

Yeah, you can't make a... It could well be. Let me say why I say could well be. You have Psalm 34.8 that the angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him and delivers them. So is that just a generic statement about God's angels or is it saying that every God-fearing person has an angel around them? That's Psalm 34.

That's one point. Psalm 34? Right, Psalm 34. Matthew 18, Jesus talks about with the little ones that their angels are always looking at the Father. If someone is hurting them or causing offense, that their angels are looking at the Father.

That's Matthew the 18th chapter. Hebrews 1 speaks of the angels being ministering spirits that are sent to serve us. So you have those different verses. And you have different accounts like Balaam has an angel that rebukes him as he's going, was an angel there in the past or was it just a one-time event, but he wasn't a godly man. But you do not have a specific verse that says each individual believer has a guardian angel. However, you can make a case for it based on deduction from several other verses.

It's just that nothing I could be dogmatic about based on scripture alone. Right, okay. Alright, well thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. You bet. Alright, 866-348-7884. We'll go over to Will in Southwest Virginia. Welcome to the Line of Fire.

Hello again, Dr. Brown. I have a question about the translations of the Bible. And I did a search on your website. I didn't find anything.

I might have missed something. But about four months ago I started using the NAS 1995 over the King James Version, having heard good things about it. However, it didn't take long for me to discover some problems. So I started digging. And I knew about Westcott and Hort. And lo and behold, I found volumes one and two of the life and letters of both Brookforce Westcott and Benton John Anthony Hort. So I started reading through this, which is a very, very—you know, these are page turners.

I don't know if you've ever tried that, but I'm saying that with tongue in cheek. But clearly these two gentlemen were not godly men of the Protestant cloak, neither of those. And they were conspiring to undermine the Protestant Bible. And this honesty— So you're saying just in their own words, they were saying they want to undermine the Protestant Bible. Yes, correct, correct, correct.

I have the PDFs and everything. And so it's actually hair-raising to read what they did. And if you read their commentaries, you get a different picture of these gentlemen.

It's like when you read the commentaries, they speak all the right language. Well, let me just say this. If you read Westcott's commentary on John, it's a beautiful commentary. There's a lot of beauty and value in it, and it's obviously not by some Bible-hater. All right, here's the deal.

Ignore Westcott and Hort. They're just two scholars from the past. You have top scholars— Well, let me make my point. Be it a Bruce Metzger who is evangelical, be it top textual scholars today, they have thoroughly sifted the evidence. They have looked at the manuscript evidence.

We have more evidence now than ever. We have more scientific ways of looking at ancient manuscripts and through different lenses and things like that. So ignore Westcott and Hort and just look at the larger scholarly consensus that the majority text does not reflect the earliest text and that the earliest text would be in accordance with what ultimately Westcott and Hort and others have used or which the NAS would use. So if ultimately you felt convicted, you were sure that the majority text was correct, then I would still use the New King James or I would use the MEV, the Modern English Version, which follow those textual traditions in the spirit of the King James but are updated and modernized. And otherwise, I personally have used, be it NIV or ESV or other translations like that for many, many years, I believe firmly that those, for many reasons, represent the earliest and most accurate text of the New Testament. And you've got scholars from all backgrounds coming to that same consensus—Catholic, Protestant, evangelical, fundamentalist, non-fundamentalist.

And I believe there's good reason for that, even in completely ignoring Westcott and Hort. So you are aware that Westcott and Hort's critical text is based on Codex Vaticanus predominantly and Codex Sinaiticus. And those are the ancient texts that they refer to, along with a few other minority texts.

So I'm fully with you. You also sift the earliest Church Fathers. You also sift what they wrote in Greek when they quoted texts, what they wrote in Latin when they quoted texts. You look through hosts of other witnesses.

You look at the Peshitta, the early Syriac translation. You look at the earliest editions of all of them. Those are among the Texas Receptors, though. No, things vary. I don't want to debate you about this. I don't want to debate you about this. So I just wanted to get your take on that, and I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. And here's the thing, sir. Just remember that there are fine, God-fearing Christian scholars who have sifted the evidence afresh and for many, many reasons come to these same conclusions. And if you also— That is what they say about evolution, and that is what they say about climate change, sir. So listen, here's the deal.

All I can give you is what I understand, alright? And I have strongly rejected the fear-mongering arguments, you know, the New Age Bible version stuff, which was just filled with nonsense. I'd encourage you to read—you know, read what James White says. You know, check out his book about King James only. And then just look at the textual evidence. Look, you know, get in depth with a scholar like Bruce Metzger and see what they had to say. And, you know, there are good reasons for these things.

That's all I can say. There are good, solid academic reasons. One other thing that's important to remember is that scribes will generally add for clarification or for conformity, not take away, generally speaking. And many of the—many of the discrepancies you'll see between majority text and the text that would be used in most of our modern translations is that there are additions. There are scribal clarifications or trying to bring conformity as opposed to what normal scribal techniques would be. But anyway, you asked for my opinion, you got it, and I trust as you study that you'll come to your own conclusions and act on them.

But I absolutely, under no circumstances, would compare rejecting the majority text in favor of the more ancient text with embracing evolution or a climate control theory. So anyway, just being candid. Okay, let's go over to Bob in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Welcome to the Line of Fire.

Thank you, Dr. Brown. I've been listening to some Islam podcasts, a guy named Hamza. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but there's some other ones that you can get in live debates. And this one Christian, he didn't represent Christianity too well. I don't think he knew his New Testament, but he said something about, you know, Jesus was worshiped.

And so this guy comes back and he said, Well, you know what? In Daniel, in Daniel, I think chapter two, Nebuchadnezzar worshiped Daniel. And then I think First Chronicles 29, the very last verse says that these people they were sacrificing and all for the temple and they worshiped David. So they were saying, Hey, we've got people worshiping other people. So when they say it's worshiping Jesus, that doesn't mean anything, because men have always been worshiped. Peter was actually worshiped in some instances, and of course he got up and said, No, don't worship me.

But what's your take on the David men worshiped in Chronicles? Yeah, so the root avad can mean to serve or worship, and hishtachavah, which is to bow down low, to prostrate oneself. Yeah, those are used about God and about human beings.

And there are even texts where it's side by side. You know, they'll serve the Lord and David their king, and you could translate serve, worship, et cetera. However, I would simply go to a passage like Revelation, the fifth chapter, where all of creation worshiped God and the Lamb and say that this is exclusive, that in no possible way can this be applied to a human being. That would be absolutely heretical. All praise, honor, adoration, going to the one who sits on the throne and to the Lamb. To apply that to any mortal being would be absolutely heresy. And notice it's all creation, which is angels, everything, exalting Him there.

So I would go to a text like that, and would demolish the idea that Jesus is worshiped in the same way that a human being would be honored, revered, et cetera. And in fact, I'm going to read Revelation five to everybody. Thank you for the call.

Great question. God bless. We'll be right back. Have you had a setback from an injury, accident, or surgery that left you feeling weaker and a loss of strength? Or are you feeling the effects of aging and just don't feel like you have the stamina or energy you used to? Then MyoHealth might be an answer to your prayers. Backed by 24 human clinical studies and over $20 million in government-funded research, MyoHealth contains a perfect balance of all nine essential amino acids. With MyoHealth, you can rebuild your strength, improve your balance and mobility, have more energy while restoring your health and vitality, and start building new, lean, stronger muscle in as little as 30 days. By combining MyoHealth with a healthy diet and regular exercise, you can feel stronger at any age, have more energy, and live a life with vitality.

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Welcome back to the line of fire. Hey, shout out as always to our co-sponsor TriVita. Thanks for your great wellness products. Thanks for your generosity. Thanks for helping us get the line of fire out across the nation. Those wanting to check out these wellness products for yourselves, where do you go?

You go to TriVita.com. When you go there, you can use the code BROWN25 if you want to get the maximum discount, special discount afforded to those of you that follow our ministry. Then know that 100% of your first order is donated to the line of fire. Yeah, every dime of it. Isn't that amazing? You get the products.

You get the funds to get more radio broadcasts out to the nation. Revelation 5. Revelation 5, verse 11. John writes, then I looked and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, the voice of many angels, the many myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands saying with a loud voice, worthy is the lamb who was slain to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing. And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea and all that is in them saying to him who sits on the throne and to the lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever. And the four living creatures said, amen. And the elders fell down and worshiped. That is only worship that God gets and God deserves.

And the lamb gets it because he himself is God. 866-34-TRUTH. And by the way, phone lines got all jammed, now we've got a couple open lines in the last couple of minutes.

Let's go over to Durham, North Carolina. Eric, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, how you doing, man?

Very well, thank you. So I was calling to see, um, so I understand that you say and I'm like, before I even say this, I'm in no way a racist, but I do, I am like a study of the Bible, I am a scholar. So I was just wondering, how do you attest your people to being Jews versus what the scriptures say? Or even when you attest to any book in Revelation, how do you come up with that circumstance? Well, what would you mean, why are you contrasting what the Bible says with my Jewishness? Why is there a contrast there? No, because, so I, like I said, when I started studying the Bible, I believed what, you know, what's the basis of what's being taught, meaning like, what they teach in the church, everything is correct, but it's not like, and like I said, I'm gonna say this again because a lot of people get it, you know, I'm misconstrued, I'm nowhere racist, like, I love all people, I think we're all sinners, I think we all need grace, repentance, and forgiveness, but at the same time, so at the same time, we're being truthful, you know, I don't get what we're looking at in the Bible that, you know, attest to that, you know, that notion that, you know, the European Jews or, you know, those who claim to be Jews, but in all actuality they're really not.

So it's like... So I have history, I have history, I have DNA, and we can go straight from history back to the Bible, so there's no contradiction. You have to realize, sir, and I appreciate your heart, I appreciate you making clear that we all need the Lord the same way, and that there's no favoritism based on race or ethnicity, but what you have to understand is through history, it's been very difficult to be a Jew. This is not something that you took on to say, hey, look at me, I'm Jewish, isn't that cool? Through history it's been very difficult, it's been very costly, so the people who have identified as Jews through the centuries and have suffered for it, have been kicked out of countries for it, etc., they paid a price for being Jews, and God said in his word that he'd scatter us all around the world, which he has, that we'd be disciplined and we'd be small in number, which we have if there are 14, 15 million Jews on the planet today, whereas all this is India or China and they've got a billion and a half each, and that he'd regather us back to the land, so he's done that, so who is it that he's scattered around the world? Well, my people, and that includes white European Jews, that includes black African Jews, that includes Jews in India, Jews in Asia, Jews that have been scattered all around the world. He's scattered us, and who has he brought back to the land?

He's brought us back. Who is it that Satan has tried to wipe out through history, you know, from the Holocaust and all through the centuries, wherever we are in the world? Then we have DNA evidence, which is not going to prove the identity of every single Jew, but will make very clear, here's ultimately where these peoples came from versus others, so I've got history, I've got the new test, I've got the biblical record, I've got DNA, so that's more than enough confirmation for me. So, okay, so, and one thing I noticed that you, and like I said, just talking with you, so one thing I noticed that you didn't say that you had was the Bible scriptures to prove that.

Oh no, I did. I just used the Bible. I just used the Bible. It said we'd be scattered around the world, it says that we'd be subject to all kinds of terrible curses, we'd be sold into slavery, all these things happened to us, to my ancestors, all of us, and yeah.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to curse, I'll go ahead, I'll let you finish. Yeah, yeah, so the curses in Deuteronomy, sadly we've lived those out as a people through history without question. Who is it that's been scattered around the world? My people. Who is it that's been preserved by God? My people.

Who is it that God himself brought back to the land in these last days as he promised he would? My people. So I got the Bible left and right, identifying my people.

Yeah. Okay, so yeah, so and what you were saying and as far as dealing with him, you know, scattering people all around the world, I can attest the same thing for my people and the same oppression that's still going on for them. And like I said, I have to reiterate this again, I'm not making it a race thing, but I'm saying to like, because if not, if we don't include the Bible, then it's just what you believe and what I believe, but where's the truth? But in all actuality, like when God, like the entire book of Revelation is dealing with a particular people and what they have to deal with.

And you get what I'm saying? So even when you went to Deuteronomy and like, those things have to seal with us to the core, to where you don't even have to question when you read these things, your mind or your spirit. Okay, I got a question for you.

I got a question for you. If you're saying that Africans or Blacks in general would be identified as the original Israelites, one of the curses in Deuteronomy is that you'd be few in number, whereas if you look at, say, a chart of Black Hebrew Israelites, you're hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions, so that can't apply to you. Another verse that can apply in Deuteronomy is that no one would buy you as slaves.

Well, that doesn't apply to you. So you can't possibly be, Africans in general, Blacks in general, can't possibly be the people being described. Now there are certainly some Black Jews, African Jews, no question about it.

There's no question about that. I embrace that, recognize that. But you cannot be the general people spoken of in Scripture.

You're disqualified from that. And we know the origins of the vast numbers of people in Africa and where they come from, and it's not from the ancient land of Israel. Okay, may I share something with you?

Yeah, please. I'm going to address everything what you stated. So even when you say, left, few, and number, and to the places where we are, we are few and number, and every country where He scattered us, we are few and number. No, it doesn't say that.

It doesn't say that. Can I just say it? No, but I'm just saying, if we want to be biblical, sir, if we want to be biblical. And here's the other thing, here's the other thing, that there has been no memory passed on through the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Blacks scattered around the world that they go back to Israel.

You have these little remnants that have some memory that's been passed on. I'm glad you brought up the even going back to Israel. Every prophecy that deals with Israel going back into the land is strictly by God and for the whole world to see God and His people go back into Israel. It is not, He never said that other nations will bring them back. If the other nations, because God said when He comes back and takes them back to the land, He said He's going to, I just want to say that He said He's going to destroy all the people that brought them. Meaning like He's going to kill, He physically says verbatim, He's going to kill them when they return back to the land and Israel will be number one. No, it's an overstatement. It says that many of the nations will actually help.

It says they'll carry them on their shoulders and Gentiles will help. But it's God who brought the Jewish people back to the land. Hey listen Eric, here's the deal.

I want to be fair, I took a certain amount of time with other calls and took a little more time with you. History is against your argument. DNA is against your argument. The Bible is actually against your argument. But let's agree on this.

All of us fall short. All of us need mercy. That mercy comes through Yeshua, through Jesus, through His blood. So rather than debate which of us is the real Jew, God knows the truth, let's agree that without the blood of the Messiah we're all dead in our sins and we must turn to Him and receive mercy. And that mercy is for all Jew or Gentile who call upon Him. But who are the people that are back in the land today, opposed by the whole world, that's my Jewish people, what city is the city opposed by the whole world?

Jerusalem, because that's the city to which Yeshua will return. But thank you sir for the call. Hey Jonathan in Brooklyn, if you go really quick I'll try to get an answer in. Go ahead sir. Hi Dr. Brown, I just want to say thank you very much.

You've answered some questions in the past in the chat, but this is my first time calling. Just a quick question. So I have some friends who I debate, they like to bring up Sam Shamoon, another Catholic apologist when talking about praying for the dead. And they always bring up, go to Maccabees, and I try to argue, and I feel like this is a proper argument, I wanted to get your opinion, that even if Maccabees were canon, where it talks about praying for the dead, Jesus in the New Testament talks about not, talks against doing that. And in the same way that he talks about and he removes the food restrictions from the first covenant for the second covenant. So I just wanted to get your kind of like thoughts on that.

Yeah I wouldn't, thanks Jonathan, and sorry to be so quick. I wouldn't even give it that much credit to apply it to like a Torah law or anything like that. But first, we know it was not received as canon by the early Jews ultimately, and you know, New Testament Jews ultimately did not receive it as canon, that's number one. And you could say, every time that Scripture is quoted as Scripture in the New Testament, it's quoting from a known book of the Bible, never from the Apocrypha. You think somewhere it would have been quoted as Scripture. That's another argument to raise. And why does the New Testament make clear that it's appointed unto men once to dine after this? The judgment. You think something that important would be taught somewhere, and yet it's not. Hey, thank you for the question.