For today: Answers to Your Questions on the Holy Spirit

The following is a pre-recorded program. We're answering your questions on the Holy Spirit today. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Hey friends, this is Michael Brown, as always delighted and blessed to spend this time together with you.

I will not be taking calls today. I've solicited questions from Facebook and X, formerly Twitter, because I am on the road and unable to take calls today. Also, we are audio only, so those watching on YouTube or Facebook, just imagine my smiling face. Okay, a couple things. Just finished putting together last night and early this morning, all the contents of our next Frontline newsletter. You're going to be stirred. I really believe you're going to be stirred.

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Okay. I want to give a little background, and then I'm going to answer as many questions as I can about the Holy Spirit, about the moving of the Spirit, about the gifts of the Spirit. So I came to faith in an Italian Pentecostal church in 1971, and that's what I understood. I read the Bible. I saw gifts of the Spirit, miracles, healing, etc. in the Bible. These were things that we believe were supposed to happen today. I saw speaking tongues in the Bible.

I began to speak in tongues January 24, 1972, and have ever since. So that's just it. To me, it's simple.

It's in the Bible. We believe it. Then I began to ask, why don't I see more? We see certain things dramatically powerfully, other things we don't see as much. Why don't we see more? As I was going on in college, then went into grad school, then became exposed to many Christians, especially scholars who didn't believe in these things, and I began to question a lot of things, switched over to another church that was very, very mildly, barely charismatic. I felt more at home there. Then as I began to study, I thought, well, maybe these things aren't true.

I would kind of rather that they weren't. I don't like some of these TV preachers, and it seems like sensationalistic stuff. So I bought books, B.B.

Warfield's classic book, Counterfeit Miracles, and other books like Robert Gromacki's Modern Tongues Movement. I tried to persuade myself that these things were not for today, but I couldn't. The testimony of Scripture was just too overwhelmingly clear to me. So I hold to what I hold to, gifts of the Spirit being for today, tongues, prophecy, healing, not primarily based on experience, but primarily based on the Word. My experience confirms the Word, but where my experience does not confirm the Word. For example, if there's something in the Bible that's clearly promised, and I haven't seen it yet, I believe it because it is written, because the Bible is my final source of authority, not my experience.

So what does that mean? It means if I believe that healing is for today, and that we should see on some normative level, not every sick person on the planet healed, not everyone we pray for always healed, but we should see on a regular basis miracles of healing. If I believe that, according to Scripture, even if I don't see it, I'm still going to believe it because it is written in the Word. All right, that's my own conviction, my own perspective.

And my own experience, every time I've really pressed in to be with the Lord more and spend more time with the Lord, His Spirit works more powerfully in me, His gifts are manifested more powerfully in me, and therefore I would have to deny the Word and experience to deny the gifts and power of the Spirit for today being normative. You say, well, Dr. Brown, why are you speaking about it more these days? Simply, there's a need to. There's a fresh attack on these things.

There are new documentaries coming out and movies and things being written and posted, books and other things attacking. And this is something I feel the Lord wants me to respond to. And as much as people attack me, well, you don't have enough discernment, how can you work with this one or be friends with this one, etc.? Well, I'm shocked by the extraordinary lack of discernment in the cessationist, hypercritical camp that rejects clear things that the Holy Spirit is doing. I mean, absolutely demonstrably clear, radical moves of God where people are dramatically saved, dramatically set free, dramatically transformed, dramatically healed. There is absolutely no question. It is documented. It is clear the person has walked with the Lord.

They're a clear disciple for many, many years. And the whole thing has to be questioned because it happens in a way that this particular person does not believe or accept. That grieves me. That hurts me, not for me, but for the people who are missing out. You say that sounds condescending. I don't mean it in a condescending way. I imagine a cessationist feels bad for me. Dr. Brown, you have some good things in your ministry and things we agree with, but you're so deluded in these other ways we feel bad for you.

I would expect that. I feel bad for them. It's almost as if you would love to go sailing out on a boat on the water, except there are no boats and there's no water. And I'm out on the boat on the water with a hundred other people out on boats on the water thinking, oh, you're missing out. It is so sad.

Okay, I'm going to start with a question from Nick on X, formerly Twitter. Is there a single best verse or passage that demonstrates that the gifts of the Spirit are available to believers until the end of the age? Well, there are a bunch. I don't mean to be facetious when I say the Bible, the New Testament, the whole of the New Testament is quite clear and simple on this. There's not a passage in the New Testament that indicates cessationism.

There's not a command in the New Testament that tells us to stop practicing what we were told to practice. So some of the verses I would go to, there is the general promise of Jesus in John 14, 12, which is a whoever believes in me promise. It is a universal promise.

You find the exact same language elsewhere in John. Whoever believes in me, whoever believes in me, whoever believes in me, it means exactly what it says. He will do the same works I do and greater works than these really do because I go to my Father. So this is a promise that remains as a gift, as a challenge, as an opportunity that we in Jesus by the Spirit can do the things that He did.

You say, well, show me someone who did everything He did. Well, the apostles didn't, but they did many of the things that He did, and then they were used in ways beyond what He did in the thousands that were saved or sick being healed as Peter's shadow passed by. So right around the world today, there are people being used by God to see blind people heal, to see deaf people heal, to see, in fact, there's an extraordinary testimony that you read in the Frontline newsletter and a beautiful healing testimony about an orphan girl taken in by our fire team in the Philippines.

Just beautiful, confirmed by dreams. It's Jesus working today through His people. So that's one passage. Then in Acts, the second chapter, where Peter says that that which was written by Joel is now coming to pass, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on all flesh, for what period of time? In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit in all flesh. We are in the last days.

That's the period from the death and resurrection of Jesus until His return. So the outpouring of the Spirit on all flesh is for the last days in which we live. And then when Peter preaches and urges his Jewish people to repent and be baptized, everyone in the name of Jesus, then he says the promise, meaning the promise of the Spirit and forgiveness, is for you, Acts 2 39, and your children and all that are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call.

That is ongoing. And then in 1 Corinthians 12 through 14, Paul gives us a command to follow the way of love and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that we may prophesy. Then at the end of 1 Corinthians 14, so it's the beginning of 1 Corinthians 14, the end of the chapter, he says, eagerly seek prophecy and don't forbid tongues. And then 1 Corinthians 13 is quite explicit that these things will continue until Jesus returns and we see Him face to face.

All right, let's go over to Facebook and let's see. Jody, have you ever seen people who don't believe in the gifts, operating in them unwittingly? Maybe I've seen God speak through someone prophetically and they don't realize that the Spirit just gave them that honor and say they don't know why they said what they said.

We're talking about a fellow believer and it's really a prophetic word and it's accurate. But otherwise, no, I've known of many people that never heard of tongues and the Holy Spirit, they were seeking God. A pastor in Raleigh told me that his mother was part of a Baptist prayer group in the 60s, late 60s, I believe it was, and they had not heard of speaking in tongues and they were praying together and the Holy Spirit fell on them. They began to speak in tongues. So I've heard of things like that happening, but otherwise, no, not to my knowledge, people unwittingly operating in gifts. However, I've seen the Holy Spirit touch many people that didn't believe they could be touched certain ways. I've seen the Holy Spirit overcome many people and they fell on their face, they fell on their back and encountered the Lord and were transformed and they never heard of this or they didn't believe in it and I didn't say a word about it and the Holy Spirit just did it.

So I've seen that many a time. Jacob, should we be concerned about cessation of salvation if they blaspheme the works of the Holy Spirit? Only if they do it knowingly. That's why my hope is that they're ignorant. Again, I don't say that in a condescending way, but if they're not ignorant, for example, when Pastor John MacArthur spoke disparagingly of the Brownsboro Revival, one of the most sacred things I've ever experienced in my life, a glorious outpouring sent by God. Yes, I am 100% sure it was an outpouring sent by God, resulting in the radical conversion of many, many thousands, God knows how many, tens of thousands, resulting in the radical transformation of many who were backslidden, who came back to the Lord, resulting in the renewal of many believers that had left their first love with fruit that lasts until this day, with people loving the Word of God, with people loving Jesus and submitting to Him as Lord, with people giving their lives on the mission field to win the loss.

I'm talking about fruit that will remain, fruit that has remained, fruit that passes the test of time. I can travel around the world and I will run into people who say, Dr. Brown, you prayed for me in Brownsboro. Jesus changed my life. I got saved when Steve Hill preached. Jesus changed my life. Jesus changed my life. I mean, these are quality disciples.

The direct fruit of that and the heart and center of that was the preaching of Jesus, the preaching of the cross, the preaching of repentance, everything else that happened in terms of responses, manifestations of us all completely secondary to what the Holy Spirit was doing in the transforming of lives. Someone just posted a video before exposing the Brownsville revival. I'm not going to take time to watch nonsense like that. But when people do that, my deep hope is that they're acting in complete ignorance.

They have no idea what they're doing. As Paul said in 1 Timothy 1, God had mercy on him when he was a blasphemer, when he was a violent man, because he acted ignorantly and in unbelief. That's my hope for cessation.

That's my something. If they knowingly, willfully slander the Holy Spirit, if they knowingly, willfully attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, knowingly, willingly, yes, that's the blasphemy of the Spirit. I'd be deeply concerned about their salvation. This is Michael Ellison, founder of Trivita Wellness. I want you to hear an amazing testimony from my friend James Robinson, and most all of you will know of him. He and his wife Betty host the Life Today television program. Now here is James. Let me tell you about a miracle I experienced. My friend Michael Ellison, he and his wife are our 40 year plus best friends.

Well, let me just say this to you. I had so much pain with what was called tennis elbow that I could hardly reach over and pick up the phone without pain, without it hurting me. I couldn't pick up something to drink, a glass of tea or anything.

It was very difficult to do anything without wearing a tight strap. And then Michael shared the NOPA cactus juice with me, NOPA left. I began drinking about that much in the morning in the glass and that much later in the day. And in three months, I was a different person. I have now gone more than 10 years with no pain, not better. Well, I have no joint pain. I am telling you, it did something to the inflammation in my body that was undeniable. Now that's just my testimony, but that's been more than 10 years with no pain. Matter of fact, if I miss for some foolish reason, a few days, I can feel it creeping back that fast. So give it a try, see if it helps relieve your pain. I hope it does like it has mine because it worked for me.

NOPA Leia is supported by clinical studies for lowering inflammation and improving mobility, flexibility, and range of emotion in the neck, back and joints for less reliance on pain medication and improved quality of life. Call 800-771-5584 and use promo code BROWN25 to receive 25% off your order. As a new customer, 100% of your order goes to support the line of fire.

Call 800-771-5584 or go online to TriVita.com. Here as always to infuse your faith and courage to help you stand strong in the Lord on these front lines. Remember you can pre-order a signed, numbered copy. It's just kind of a collector's edition. You pay a little bit more for it and it's a way of helping us reach more people on the line of fire and getting a special book to you. You can order your signed, numbered copy of Turn the Tide on our website. This is the only place you can pre-order now the signed, numbered copy.

That is TheLineOfFire.org. Turn the Tide, How to Ignite a Cultural Awakening. I really think this book is going to hit home.

In fact, I've been really pleased by the sudden interest as it's been announced that people wanted to interview me and talk about it. And of course, 100% of the funds that come in with these pre-orders go right back into ministry. Not a dime goes into my pocket.

Anyone on the team, it turns around. So you help us and we help you. And bless you. Turn the Tide.

Of course, you can pre-order wherever else you order the ebook or the paperback, but this is the signed pre-order. All right, let's see. Kalyn, is it necessary for individuals in ministry to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? Could that argument that they should be made biblically? Well, without question, to do the work of the ministry most effectively, according to Jesus, we must be endued with power from on high. Luke 24-49, don't leave Jerusalem until you're endued with power from on high. Acts 1-8, you'll receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you and you'll be my witnesses. And being filled with the Spirit in Acts 2, they were all filled with the Spirit. Or after prayer in Acts 4, they were filled with the Spirit and they spoke the word boldly. So without question, to be in ministry and to be fully effective in ministry during the work of God, we need to be baptized in the Spirit.

The question is, what does that mean? Does it happen salvation or subsequently? So some would say at salvation, we receive everything we need and we are baptized in the Spirit and everything is there.

It just needs to be drawn on. Others would say there is a subsequent immersion, baptism in the Spirit, subsequent to salvation. That's my own view. But I'm not going to divide over that or argue over that. I just say, show me.

That's simple. If you received everything at salvation, if you received it subsequent to salvation, whether it was with tongues or without tongues, just show me the manifestation of the Spirit's power in your life and ministry. And if that's there and there's authority over demons in Jesus' name and people are being set free from bondage and powers of darkness are being broken and the Kingdom of God is being advanced, not simply teaching the Bible, which of course we do. But Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2 that when he came to the Corinthian believers, he said, my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and power. And that's a normative thing in New Testament ministry.

And there's nowhere in the New Testament where it ever says it stops. So to do effective ministry, we need to be operating in the power of the Spirit, for sure. Now, God can use you in many, many different ways, but to be fully effective to the max, absolutely. Anthony, related question, is the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues for everyone? And he said, asking for a friend, I believe it is, but I'm curious of your response.

Thanks. Yes, I do believe it is for everyone. And personally, I believe it is something subsequent to salvation. Now, I'll get to the tongues part in a moment, but the baptism of the Spirit being filled with the Spirit's power, being immersed in the Spirit's power, I believe is for every single child of God, every single believer. Now, whether it happens to at salvation or subsequent to salvation can be debated, but I do believe it is for everyone. Can everyone who has been baptized in the Spirit speak in tongues? Theoretically, I believe they can.

Will everyone? Not necessarily. So I never put pressure on anyone to speak in tongues. I never say that that is the proof. However, it is the most common evidence of the baptism of the Spirit. In the book of Acts, consistently you see something happen that is tangible. Acts 2, they speak in foreign languages. Acts 8, something tangible happens that that Simon the sorcerer can see, then wanted to buy the gift. Acts 10, they speak in tongues, no indication of foreign languages there, and there's no reason for them to be foreign languages. They're all just believers there together, and they're not a bunch of foreigners that don't understand. And then Acts 19, there's prophecy and tongues.

So there is something tangible, there's something definite. Whether everyone will speak in tongues, I don't know that they will. Could they theoretically?

I would say yes. Then we would debate 1 Corinthians, the 12th chapter, do all speak in tongues. Does that mean just in general, or does it mean in particular delivering a message in the congregation? And that's what Paul is speaking of.

Let's see. Joshua, why do we as Christians separate YHVH, so the tetragrammaton, the divine name Yahweh, from Yeshua when the invisible became visible in Genesis 1-3 and then the invisible became human, the Spirit took on a skin suit in a sense? Well, Yeshua is Yahweh, and Yeshua is sent by Yahweh, because Yahweh can mean God generically. In other words, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, that is God, and that is Yahweh. Or Yahweh can refer to the Father who sends the Son. So it's just biblical terminology. It's not playing semantic games. It is biblical terminology.

All right, let me swing back over to X here. And Jules, please explain to us, quote, slain of the Spirit is biblical. All right, so I did a show on this last week, but it comes up a lot.

Once I talked about it, a lot of people raised questions. All right, number one, what is biblical is we lay hands on people, right? That's what we do. What is biblical is we lay hands on the sick. What is biblical is we lay hands on people for the importation of gifts, for the importation of the Holy Spirit, for setting select individuals apart for ordination. These are different reasons that we lay hands on people in harmony with New Testament passages, right?

So we do that. And what happens is God's business. Are they healed? Are they set free?

Are they transformed? We do what we do in faith, and God does what he does. So if we push someone over, that's not being slain in the Spirit.

That's us pushing someone over. If someone just thinks you're supposed to fall or they get caught up emotionally and they fall, that's not being slain in the Spirit. Slain in the Spirit is being overcome by the presence and power of God.

So first thing is, general question, is everything done by God through history, after the New Testament, already recorded in the New Testament? For example, during the Great Awakening, Jonathan Edwards' wife, Sarah, would be overcome with intense shaking and fall into a trance, and sometimes be in a trance for many hours or for days. Do we have an exact precedent of that in the Bible? When George Whitefield would be preaching, and as he'd be preaching, people would scream and then collapse on the floor as he was preaching. Do we have examples of that exact phenomenon in the Bible while someone was preaching and people fell or collapsed? Or one other example I'll give you, this is from the ministry of John Wesley.

Let's see, this is from his journal. After I finished preaching and was earnestly inviting all sinners to enter into the Holiest by this new living way, many of those who had heard began to call upon God with strong cries and tears. Some sank down, having no strength remaining in them. Others trembled and quaked exceedingly. Some were torn with a kind of convulsive motion in every part of their bodies, often so violently that sometimes four or five persons cannot hold one of them.

I've seen many hysterical and many epileptic fits, but in most respects none of them were like these. I immediately prayed that God would not allow those who were weak to be offended. However, one woman was greatly offended, being sure those so affected could stop the shaking if they wished. No one could persuade her to the contrary.

She had gone only three or four yards when she also dropped down in as violent an agony as the rest. 26 had been so affected, most of them were filled with peace and joy during the prayers which were made for them. So, I could give you accounts like this from revival after revival in history. And the question is, are all of those things recorded in the scripture? No, they're not all recorded in the scripture. The question is, do they violate scriptural principles?

No. Are there verses in the Bible that tell us, here's the big question, don't go beyond the word. Are there verses in the Bible that tell us to judge whether this is the Holy Spirit or not, by whether someone falls or shakes? Jonathan Edwards said this, a work is not to be judged by any effects on the bodies of men, such as tears, trembling, groans, loud outrides, agonies of body, or the failing of bodily strength.

So, the Bible does not tell you to judge by those manifestations. This is Michael Ellison, founder of Trivita Wellness. I want you to hear an amazing testimony from my friend, James Robison, and most all of you will know of him. He and his wife, Betty, host the Life Today television program. Now, here is James. Let me tell you about a miracle I experienced. My friend, Michael Ellison, he and his wife are our 40 year plus best friends.

Well, let me just say this to you. I had so much pain with what was called tennis elbow that I could hardly reach over and pick up the phone without pain, without it hurting me. I couldn't pick up something to drink, a glass of tea or anything.

It was very difficult to do anything without wearing a tight strap. And then Michael shared the nopal cactus juice with me, nopalaya. I began drinking about that much in the morning in a glass and that much later in the day. And in three months, I was a different person. I have now gone more than 10 years with no pain, not better. Well, I have no joint pain. I am telling you, it did something to the inflammation in my body that was undeniable. And that's just my testimony. But that's been more than 10 years with no pain.

Matter of fact, if I miss for some foolish reason, a few days, I can feel it creeping back that fast. So give it a try. See if it helps relieve your pain. I hope it does like it has mine because it worked for me.

Nopalaya is supported by clinical studies for lowering inflammation and improving mobility, flexibility and range of emotion in the neck, back and joints for less reliance on pain medication and improved quality of life. Call 800-771-5584 and use promo code BROWN25 to receive 25% off your order. As a new customer, 100% of your order goes to support the Line of Fire.

Call 800-771-5584 or go online to TriVita.com. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the Line of Fire, Michael Brown.

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So go to thelineoffire.org, click on donate, monthly support. So back to the question of, is slain in the Spirit biblical? So the first thing is laying hands on people is biblical.

So we do it, that's normative in Scripture. And if people are supernaturally touched, if they have a vision, if Jesus radically sets them free from some bondage, if they're healed, if they're overcome by the Spirit, fall to the ground shaking, that's up to Him to do what He does. But there are precedents in Scripture of people being overcome when they're in the presence of God. And there are two ways to read the account in 2 Chronicles 5, that when the glory of God filled the first temple, just as the glory of God filled the tabernacle, that the priest could not stand to minister.

It could mean one of two things. It could mean that just as Moses could not enter the tabernacle, because the presence of God was too strong, that the priest could not enter. It could also mean, and I'm just looking at this from the Hebrew viewpoint, simply reading it, that they couldn't stand, that they went to minister, but they were overcome by the Spirit. Did they fall on their face? Did they fall on their back?

Doesn't say, but they couldn't stand. They were overcome just by the presence of the Spirit. But I want to say this again. There are plenty of things the Holy Spirit has done in the last 2,000 years that are not all recorded in the Bible.

And I want to throw something out to you to consider. Let's say you're a first century Jew. What you have is the Bible. That's your authority. That's your final authority.

The Torah, the foundation, the prophets' writings, that's your authority. Now you have Acts chapter 2, and the Holy Spirit comes down, and people begin to speak in new languages. Well, that's never happened in history. What if you said, well, show me that in the Bible.

Show me that. Where is that written in the Bible? Or Jesus goes into a synagogue, right? And he drives a demon out of someone, and the person convulses and screams and falls to the ground.

It's a demon leaves him. Where is that in the Old Testament? Or Jesus driving demons into pigs, and the pigs run down the hill into the water and kill themselves. Where is that in the Old Testament? You say, well, he was Jesus.

But hang on. You only have the Bible. And if he violates the Bible, if he violates the Old Testament, then you don't believe him. You say, well, that's not in the Bible. The question is not is every single manifestation written in the Bible. There are things throughout history God has done that most of us embrace as real and genuine and beautiful, and they're not all written in the Bible. So the question is, is it contrary to Scripture? And I must tell you, I find it so sad when someone, rather than seeing what the Holy Spirit is doing in front of their eyes, I'm talking about a person gloriously saved, transformed.

The angels in heaven are rejoicing. And a critic said, show me that in the Bible. Where is that in the Bible? Show me that in the Bible. I once dealt with a critic of the Brownsboro revival, and he began to challenge me about some points. And, you know, where is this in the Bible?

Where is that? So I began to show him various passages about people travailing or groaning under the weight of the Spirit, the prophets and apostles. And he turned around and said, well, just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean it's for today.

This is unbelievable. He wants it both ways. Show me that in the Bible when I do. He said, well, no, it's not necessarily for today. I was once in an airport in Italy and met a pastor. We were chatting, and he was Southern Baptist. He said, do you know many Southern Baptists? I said, no, not a lot. He said, hey, we are good people, man.

You should get to know us. I said, great, I'd love to. And he said, if it's not in the Bible, we don't do it.

And I smiled to myself because he was older, and I didn't want to be facetious or disrespectful. But when he said, if it's not in the Bible, we don't do it. What I wanted to ask him is, if it is in the Bible, do you do it?

All right. So for all the people saying, well, I don't see that in the Bible, so I don't do it. Well, I don't slay anyone in the Spirit. I pray for people.

And there are plenty of people. I never touched, and the Holy Spirit fell upon them, and they were transformed. The power of God hit them. They were overcome. They fell to the ground, shaking, weeping in repentance. I'm an eyewitness to it.

And then you see these people five, 10, 20 years later, loving Jesus, loving the Word of God, being solid disciples. The Holy Spirit did that. Nobody has answered my question. Who did it?

How did it happen? The devil is not going to save someone, transform someone, forgive someone, make them on fire for Jesus. Satan's kingdom would be divided against himself, and Satan doesn't have the power to do that. And the flesh can't do it. Jesus said, that which is born of the flesh is flesh. Listen to what Jonathan Edwards said.

Again, interesting observations. Remember he was a staunch Calvinist? Jonathan Edwards, first great awakening. If they wait to see a work of God without difficulties and stumbling blocks, it will be like the fools waiting at the riverside to have the water all run by. A work of God without stumbling blocks is never to be expected.

It must needs be that offenses come. There never yet was any great manifestation that God made of himself to the world without many difficulties attending it. It is with the works of God as with his Word. They seem at first full of things that are strange, inconsistent, and difficult to the carnal, unbelieving hearts of men. Christ in his work always was and always will be a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, a gin and a snare to many.

True words have never been spoken. John, I struggle with cessationist arguments that the gifts are not for today, except by scripture we know otherwise. My question would be, is there any one person carrying the gift of healing? I know the 1 Corinthians 12, 4 through 10 makes it clear, but it's not like we command God. Number one, the Greek said gifts of healing.

So it is plural, and it may be speaking of different types of gifts. So that this one is used in particular in healing cancer. This one is used in particular in healing the blind or healing deaf. One of my colleagues I was in India with, and he told me that God really used him in healing deaf people. And he prayed for a deaf woman there, and she was healed. So that is one aspect of it.

Sam Storms would argue, and he did the roundtable discussion, that it's a misinterpretation to think anyone has it. It's the Holy Spirit manifest as he wills. But I would say Randy Clark has a gift of healing. There are many miracles of healing that take place in his ministry. His doctoral dissertation studied those that were prayed for who had metal implants in their body, did surveys of prayer for them before and after as to why they had the metal implant, what their condition was before, what their condition was after.

In some cases, the metal implant disappeared. This is all documented, scientifically documented in his dissertation. You say, well, anyone with the gift of healing, then every single person they pray for is always healed. Well, show me that in the Bible. Just show me that in the New Testament. Please, show me.

Where is it defined in that way? Certainly Paul had the gift of healing, right? Why did Paul leave Trophimus sick in Miletus?

Why did he tell Timothy to drink a little wine? Now, on the island of Malta, at the end of the book of Acts, 28th chapter, everyone he prays for on the island of Malta is healed, right? But that was not every single person he prayed for all the time.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have left Trophimus sick in Miletus, et cetera. So that is a construct of the cessationist, that if you have the gift of healing, that at will, you can command everyone to be healed, or that you can pray and everyone will be healed. That's not biblical.

That is not biblical. Kellan, where were the gifts of the spirit between the apostles' generation and the Zuzah Street? All over the place.

All over the place. Read Eddie Hyatt's book, H-Y-A-T-T, 2,000 Years of Charismatic History. You've got miracles through church history. You've got tongues, you've got prophecy, you've got healing, you've got deliverance. One of my favorite accounts is Augustine in the fourth century. So he's writing his great magnum opus, The City of God. He does not believe in the ongoing gifts of the spirit for today, healing, prophecy, things like that, until they begin seeing God heal the sick. They recorded over 70 healings in a two-year period, and he had to change his theology.

But Eddie Hyatt will take you right through history. I mean, Martin Luther has a friend dying of tuberculosis, and he says, you're not going to die. We need you around, and I'm commanding your healing.

I'm commanding the sickness to end. And the guy is healed, and he outlives Luther. So it's through church history. It never stopped.

Never stopped. And what's interesting is people think Zuzah Street, that was the beginning of the modern Pentecostal movement. That was the explosion. But there's a series, Oxford University series, on the church and movement of God today. There's a book by, I believe it's Alan Henderson. I may have the name wrong. To the Ends of the Earth, and it's about the modern Pentecostal charismatic movement.

So he's documenting in the 1860s and 70s in India outpouring of the spirit, people speaking in tongues, prophecy, healings taking place. But it never stopped. It never stopped.

It may have lessened in certain places. And then you have to understand that the Reformation ultimately became anti-miraculous because Catholics would say, well, we have miracles. We have miracles.

So there was a reaction against that. If you want to understand the rationalism that underlies it at a broader level, get Craig Keanor's two-volume study Miracles. His one-volume book, Miracles Today, is extraordinary. It almost gets redundant. So many recorded, documented miracles of every kind, one after another, after another, after another. But I'll give you an example of something. Cessations today have taken a hard line that the Holy Spirit only speaks through the Bible.

In other words, you will never have the Holy Spirit move on you. You're in a desperate situation. You're, Lord, do I take this medicine or not? I'm seeing all these side effects if I take it, but if I don't take it, I might die. Lord, I can't get to my doctor. I'm alone. I don't know what to do. And they hear a quiet voice saying, take the medicine.

It's okay. No, no, no. That will never happen. That's heading to the Bible.

It will never happen. You go through church history where people did not believe in tongues or prophecy. And they'll talk about God spoke to them.

God said to them. So God has been moving. He has been speaking.

He has been acting. It has never stopped. So check out Eddie Hyatt's book, 2000 Years of Charismatic History. Even if you question that count here, I mean, go back, research it.

It goes to primary sources. You'll see the gifts and the deceits. But just like many of the truths that were recaptured by the Reformation about justification by faith and the priesthood of every believer, many of those were lost, not totally, but largely lost for centuries. Many of the realities of the gifts were lost.

But further back, getting back in power to deny it is to deny the act. This is Michael Ellison, founder of Trivita Wellness. I want you to hear an amazing testimony from my friend, James Robison. And most all of you will know of him, James Robison. James Robison is almost all of you will know of him. He and his wife, Betty, host the Life Today television program. Now here is James. Let me tell you about a miracle I experienced. My friend, Michael Ellison, he and his wife are our 40 year plus best friends.

Well, let me just say this to you. I had so much pain with what was called tennis elbow that I could hardly reach over and pick up the phone without pain, without it hurting me. I couldn't pick up something to drink, a glass of tea or anything.

It was very difficult to do anything without wearing a tight strap. And then Michael shared the Nopal cactus juice with me, Nopalaya. I began drinking about that much in the morning in the glass and that much later in the day. And in three months, I was a different person. I have now gone more than 10 years with no pain, not better. Well, I have no joint pain. I am telling you it did something to the inflammation in my body that was undeniable. Now that's just my testimony, but that's been more than 10 years with no pain.

Matter of fact, if I miss for some foolish reason, a few days, I can feel it creeping back that fast. So give it a try. See if it helps relieve your pain. I hope it does like it has mine because it worked for me.

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Call 800-771-5584 or go online to TriVita.com. We are answering questions that have been submitted on Facebook and Twitter this morning. And I know many of you submitted. I'm sorry, I can't get to everybody. We did say first come, first serve. I've been trying to do it.

It's easier to do it on Facebook, first come, first serve than on X on Twitter to find the order, but trying to do that. And God willing, we'll keep opening the phones and days ahead to discuss these things. And I just felt it was appropriate to push back against this new flood tide of cessationism.

I do feel bad because the tide is going to come in and out. I mean, I know it for a fact. I know for a fact that the Holy Spirit is going to continue to be poured out in power. I know for a fact that these things are for today.

And around the world, cessationism is becoming a smaller and smaller and smaller island. So people might say, we're holding to the word. Hey, I appreciate your zeal. I'm 100% sure you're wrong in your stance in Scripture. And I'm 100% sure I've seen the Holy Spirit move in extraordinary ways around the world and in my own life, all to the glory of Jesus and all in harmony with Scripture. Ari, do you know what Holy Spirit means?

Yes. So Ruach HaKodesh in Hebrew, and then the equivalent in Greek, of course. It means what it says in English. Absolutely what it says. There's no English translation, Holy Spirit, Hebrew, Greek, all the same. Not going to go into any more depth there. Margo, please discuss 1 Corinthians 13, 10 in verses about perfecting complete also 1 Corinthians 1, 7 and the last two or three verses of 1 Corinthians 14.

So that's a few questions. Let me just focus first on 1 Corinthians 13, 10. A colleague of mine, Frank Viola, some years ago did a study of this because he had heard taught that when the perfect comes, then the imperfect will cease and the imperfect is the completion of the canon of Scripture. The NIV, when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. So he says, we know in part, we prophesy in part, when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. So tongues, prophecy, knowledge, those things will pass away when the complete comes. He decided to study that and was surprised to find that the interpretation that this means the completion of the canon of Scripture is virtually unknown in church history. You find an obscure reference here and there to someone later, but all through church history, it is virtually an unknown interpretation until the cessationists came up with it, combating the modern Pentecostal movement in the early 20th century. And the day will come when it's completely forgotten again, hardly any top scholars hold to it anymore. You read all the top Corinthian commentaries and top Greek scholars, hardly any top scholars hold to it anymore.

If you just survey, even many cessationists don't hold to it anymore. That's because it's not in the text. Number one, Paul was not writing first Corinthians with the concept. I'm writing part of the New Testament and then there's going to be a New Testament canon that's going to go along with the Old Testament canon and when that's complete, then that concept wouldn't have been in his mind, number one. Number two, the Corinthians would have had not the slightest clue. They're getting a letter from Paul. They're going to have the slightest clue. Oh, we're getting a letter from Paul that one day we'll be part of something called the New Testament, which really had to be something called the Old Testament. We should only call the Old Testament now, it's just the Bible us, and then they will have the canon of the scripture complete and that concept will be completely foreign to them, meaningless to them. But contextually, it's impossible. It's utterly impossible.

Why? Because it's talking about when we see Jesus face to face. It's something like the eschaton. Commentary after commentary after commentary, ancient and modern, recognizes that it's talking about the second coming. Here we know in part that's one of the things partial knowledge will disappear. We still have partial knowledge. Why are we debating these things if we don't have partial knowledge? We have what the word says, but we do not have full clarity, face to face clarity.

Why? Because Jesus hasn't returned yet. It's talking about the eschaton, plain and simple.

There's no other way around it. That's one of the clearest proofs that the gifts continue until the Lord returns. And it's confirmed by the other verse you mentioned, 1 Corinthians 1.7, therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus the Messiah to be revealed. So they're waiting for him to be revealed and the gifts are going to continue right until he is revealed.

So absolutely, that's why they continue to this day. As for the end of 1 Corinthians 14, and I think what you want me to comment on, verse 39, therefore my brothers and sisters be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues, but everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. Which he explains earlier in the chapter is at a meeting this one has a tongue, this one has an interpretation, this one has a prophecy, this one has a song, this one has a revelation. That's an orderly service according to Paul. You put many believers in that environment today and they think we all lost our minds, but that according to Paul is an orderly service. So this is a command.

This is a command. Be eager to prophesy. Not preach. Preach is a different word in Greek.

Not teats, that's a different word. Be eager to prophesy. Do not forbid speaking in tongues. You say, well, that's just gibberish. How do you know it's gibberish? It's a foreign language. Someone's speaking a foreign language. I've heard plenty of foreign languages that have traveled around the world and someone's interpreting. I'm thinking, that's not a language.

What is that? But it's their language. And Paul says if an outsider comes in or someone ignorant and they hear you speaking in tongues, they'll think you're just going, bar, bar. In Greek, they'll think you're a barbarian, meaning they'll think you're just speaking gibberish. The Greek's name outside is barbarians. One reason was this words just sounded like bar, bar, blah, blah. It sounded like gibberish. That's the accusation of Paul's day.

They'll just think you're talking gibberish. So yeah, it's explicit. And here, here's a command. Here's a command from Paul, from God to us. Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. If you're not doing that, you're disobeying the Word. That's a mandate in Scripture.

I didn't make it up. Tommy, what things would be considered by Paul to be out of order in his service? 1 Corinthians 14, thank you. So what would be out of order would be everybody prophesying at the same time. Four different people. And remember, he's talking about house meetings. Maybe you have 20 people in a meeting, all right. So we're not talking about if you have thousands of people in a meeting and someone shouts out you can't even hear them. Let's just say theoretically a meeting like Paul was talking about.

You've got 20 people, 30 people, 10 people in a meeting. So what would be out of order is if everyone is all speaking in tongues out loud and there's no interpretation. So they're all delivering messages. It's not like in a worship service. You have the band playing and everyone's singing and worshiping and there's one sound going up to God and some are speaking in tongues and some are speaking in their foreign language that's their native language and some are speaking in English and it's like one sound going up to God. But to deliver a message, if I get behind the pulpit and I take the mic and I deliver a message in tongues for three minutes without interpretation or for 30 seconds without interpretation, that would be out of order. If you're in a house meeting with 20 people and they all start speaking in tongues at the same time and you've got unbelievers there or someone ignorant, that would be out of order. It's one thing if you've got three believers, you all know the Spirit, you all speak in tongues and you're praying in tongues together and waiting for the Holy Spirit to lead you to pray in English, that's a separate thing entirely. But you've got an unbeliever there, a new person that's ignorant of these things, you're all speaking in tongues at the same time, that would be out of order.

I'm prophesying, you start prophesying at the same time, those things would be out of order. Dexter, how do we know God is speaking versus our own thoughts and feelings? All right, how do you know you're saved?

How do you know you're saved? Right, well, my life has been transformed, I put my faith in what the Bible said, but is that all? Is that all? Well, I trust Scripture. No, that's not all.

It's not all. What does it say in Romans 8 16? The Spirit of God Himself testifies that we are the children of God, that there is the witness of the Spirit.

Romans 8, Galatians 4, God puts the Spirit of His Son within us, by which we cry, Abba Father. If you do not have the witness of the Spirit that you've been born again, and you simply say, well, I just believe what is written, how do you know what is written is true? Well, I'm intellectually convinced that Jesus rose from the dead.

Okay, well, there are plenty of people intellectually convinced of all kinds of things. Where is the proof of the new life? Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 5 17, that if anyone's in Christ, he's a new creation. So, as James Edmund Orr, the revival scholar said, the only proof of the new birth is the new life. So, where is that proof?

Where is that evidence? So, most everyone, everyone I know that's saved will say, yeah, I have the witness of the Spirit. God changed my life. He lives inside of me by His Spirit.

I'm a new person. I have fellowship with God. I have relationship with God. So, the same way you have the witness of the Spirit is the same way that you learn to discern the voice of God speaking to you, that you learn to understand.

Jesus said, my sheep hear my voice. So, let's just say that you have this thought, okay, I'm supposed to quit my job. And God told me to quit my job and give away all my money to the poor.

And He's going to open up a new door. And you do it. And the next day, you're offered a job for three times the amount.

And someone comes and gives you a check for three times the amount of what you just gave away. It's like that was really the voice of God, right? You learn, wow, that was the voice of God.

That wasn't my own thought. It comes with that inner witness that confirms. And then, for me, I'll test it. If I have time, in other words, it's not a situation where I'm supposed to minister someone right here and there because the Lord is leading. So, I'll test it.

I'll wait over a period of days. Is that witness still there? Is that leading still there? Am I still hearing God say that? Has He confirmed? Many times it'll be confirmed through others. Someone will come and prophesy to you the exact thing that the Lord just spoke to you. And that's a further confirmation. But ultimately, it's track record. It's learning to hear and recognize the voice of God.

So, you quit your job, you step out, you give away all your money, and you end up bankrupt. Well, that wasn't the voice of God. It's a hard lesson to learn. So, when I counsel people, when they think God's telling them to do something really radical and extreme, I tell them, go and talk to your pastor or whoever is your spiritual oversight because you need to be sure. You can't play with that. Just like everyone I know that's ever taught on healing says, don't experiment with your children. Well, let's take you off medicine and see. No, no, no.

If the kids heal, then the doctor will confirm it and the doctor will say you don't need the medicine anymore. So, we don't play games with these things. But, of course, the biggest thing, and I'm assuming that we understand this, it can't violate Scripture. If it's contrary to Scripture, throw it out.

I'm assuming that wasn't part of the question. We understand that from the start. But we grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord. We learn to follow Him and recognize His voice more clearly and crack record inner witness confirmation than make Himself. Hey, Frontline newsletter goes out Monday. Sign up at thelineoffire.org.