Candid Thoughts on the Joint Statement on Mike Bickle

So, today, friends, I will speak from my heart candidly, openly, in the most vulnerable way, about the joint statement we put out regarding the allegations against Mike Pickle. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on what's going to be a very important broadcast. I'm only taking calls on topic today, the situation surrounding Mike Pickle, my comments regarding that, the joint statement I issued with seven other leaders, eight of us together last week regarding the allegations on Mike Pickle. Only taking calls concerning that, but I'd love to hear from you who differ with me, who feel like we've not handled things correctly or have a question about our statement.

866-348-7884. I'm not here to argue or debate or defend myself, but rather pursue truth together with all of you. One quick announcement. Last night, I put together the lead article for our Frontline Newsletter, which will be sent out just a few days from now, the end of the week, sent out to our team for feedback.

It resonated just what I was hoping for, so I know it's really going to encourage you. If you're not getting the Frontline Newsletter, this month was the record for the most signups we've ever had. So far, the month isn't even halfway over, so sign up today. Frontline Newsletter, right on our home page, thelineoffire.org. Thelineoffire.org. You're right on the home page.

It's free, and it's all digital. It'll come your way once a month, and then every week we'll update you on our latest articles and videos so you won't miss anything. Again, I'm going to be as vulnerable and candid as I can be. I always am open, especially sitting here on talk radio. It's the nature of the beast to just sit and speak from the heart, not put on some show.

But all the more, I want to be vulnerable today. I do not like being called into these situations. I'm much more at home preaching repentance to the whole body and saying, we've sinned, we've fallen short, and all of us get on our faces together. I'm much more at home with that. I'm much more at home calling for the Refiner's Fire to work in all of our lives.

I do not look at myself as, I'm the one that's going to fix and correct everything. I serve the Lord joyfully. Every day, I can't wait. Literally, I can't wait to do radio.

I've been doing daily Talk Radio 15 years. When I go to preach, I can't wait to preach, teach at a school. I can't wait.

Time to write, I can't wait. I love the calling of God. I embrace it joyfully. Going to the nations. Literally, I can't wait to get on the plane. I try to be one of the first getting on the plane.

It was a 14-hour fight. I can't wait. I love to preach. I love the calling of God. This is the one thing that I would rather not do. This is the one thing, get involved in these situations where we have to stand together to call for discipline in the body or I have to lead a certain charge.

I'm very uncomfortable doing it. I understand why people reach out to me. I understand that by God's grace, I have a certain testimony in the body. But come on, every one of us, the closer you get to God, the more unworthy you feel.

You know that we've been made worthy, right? That we're new creations in Jesus. I don't walk around with a sin consciousness. I'm a new creation in Jesus.

I'm a child of God, a son of God, destined to be with Him forever, set apart as holy, made righteous. I live with that consciousness. Praise God for it.

I hope you do as well. But on the other hand, boy, in every area of my life, I'm conscious of how merciful God has been. All the stupid things I've said or wish I didn't say this or do this or been immature here or there, you're just conscious of the goodness and mercy and grace of God.

So I don't come in strutting. In every area of my life, the longer I walk with the Lord, the more I walk with a limp, whether it's prayerlessness or lack of knowledge of the word or, you know, someone says, has your thought life been perfect? Whose thought life has been perfect?

Has every word that's come into your mouth been perfect? We're recipients of the mercy and grace of God, so we seek to set high standards. And by God's grace, I seek to set an example. But I don't like getting called into situations like this, but it happens every so often. And when the Lord is the one calling me and others in the body make the appeal, I step forward in that way. But please, you know, some of you say, why don't you call out this one, this one, this one?

It's not my ministry you're calling to do. It is no one's calling to just sit around and call out everybody and be the policeman. Because what we do is we're so selective. We do it with the camps of those that we don't like.

We don't do it with our own camp. And we often don't do it with our own lives. I once heard a quote attributed to Smith Wigglesworth.

I think I read it, that if you claim to have the gift of discernment, Wigglesworth said, practice it on yourself for six months, then you'll never practice it on anybody else after that. So to say it again, I'm much more comfortable by saying we've sinned, we've fallen short, let's get on our faces and repent. However, there are things that must be dealt with. And when there are sins with leaders in particular that cross certain lines, they have to be dealt with. It is for the righteousness, it is for the health of the body.

But I just want to lay out first my heart. When I write a book, say on hyper-grace, it's because I see a need in the body. And then everywhere I go, I see the abuse of this. And then leaders are coming in crisis.

What do we do? And then I feel the Lord assigning me to do it. I don't just search every day. Let's find the latest error. Let's find the latest wrong thing.

Let's correct it. Who am I? Who appointed me or you or any of us to do this? Yes, we're watching yes, we're watching on the wall, but we have our assignments. And the first thing we do is we search our own lives. And then those closest to us.

So I just want to start there. And I remember was around 87, somewhere around there that Jim Baker had been exposed for sexual fall. And then Jimmy Swigert, I used to love Swigert's preaching.

Swigert was really and I don't say this to attack Jimmy Swigert. I became very uncomfortable with this preaching because he was ridiculing Baker and blasting Baker. And I just said, don't, don't do that.

Don't, you know, the old saying that the blade of grass that grows too high gets cut down. Don't set yourself up. I'm not, I don't do that stuff. And I'm the Holy One. And you're all a bunch of riches and years from wrong with you. It's like, no, just let's correct sin, but let's do it with humility. Galatians 6, considering yourself that you're also tempted, not in some self-righteous arrogant way. And of course it turned out that Swigert had been in sin all that time and in a persistent and longer way from what we understood that Jim Baker had been.

So I say those things upfront. The fact is sin must be rebuked. And especially when there is persistent sin that crosses certain lines in the lives of leaders, it must be rebuked.

And 1 Timothy 5 is playing those who continue in sin. So this now unrepentant continuing in sin must be publicly rebuked that others take fear. So just, just very briefly, my own history here, and then I want to address those who feel that I sinned against them by stifling their voices. Those who've told me some respectfully, some angrily and disrespectfully that I hurt them, or I was trying to silence the voice of victims. I want you to hear exactly the comments that did make, and then I'll take ownership for them and speak from my heart to those who feel that I hurt them or sinned against them. And the phone lines are open.

If you're one of them, or you want to give me a piece of your mind, 866-348-7884. We'll talk about why we issued this joint statement. We'll talk about why we said that Mike Bickel would be disqualified from future public ministry. We'll talk about the amazing redemptive mercy of God and how people can be restored to ministry in all different kinds of settings. We'll talk about a line in the, in the joint statement about the prophetic history at IHOP.

So we'll cover all that. If you haven't read the statement, it's on our website, thelineoffire.org. Just click on read, and you'll find it within the first few lists of articles there. So thelineoffire.org. Just click on read, and you'll be able to read it.

So just my history quickly. I was called by leadership at IHOP KC on November 3rd, November 2nd, asking if I could fly in Saturday, November 4th and speak to the congregation November 5th. So consult with the leadership team and speak to the whole congregation on November 5th. I fully understood going in it that it's no win.

In other words, you're going to have people upset with you on either side, and whatever you do is going to be faulted on certain levels. So this was, there was no self-aggrandizement, nothing in this for any other reason except to serve. I felt the responsibility to do it.

I was able to make it work in schedule, had Nancy's blessing to go share with my other team. In fact, some of my team felt that I was going to be called to do this. So I did it with fear and trembling before the Lord. And we'll talk about some statements I made that Sunday, November 5th.

Actually, play them for you to hear this. But about one week after being there, when it was clear that the firm, Stinson Law Firm, that had been brought on by IHOP KC to do a third-party investigation, when it was clear that that was not going to work, and that the advocacy group and those who had come forward saying they'd been sinned against by Mike, that they were not going to participate, I immediately went back to the leaders and said, okay, you must bring in another outside firm. Now, my understanding at that point was that things were starting, that the investigation was starting, that this was not the time for us to be airing opinions on social media because there was an investigation.

Everyone who felt they'd been sinned against, everyone who had a grievance had a place to now go and let it now be sorted out in a right and righteous way, impartially, et cetera. That was the goal. I never dreamed for a split second that we'd be now approaching the middle of March and this still wouldn't have happened. I never dreamed of that for a split second. I never thought that I'd be talking about it now in this way as an ongoing thing, except for that investigations happened and here are the ramifications of it.

I never dreamed of that. But immediately when it became clear, I went back to leadership and said, okay, you have to. This plan's not working. You must bring in an outside third party. If grace doesn't work, guideposts, some nationally known, another party must be brought in.

The leaders did not feel it was time to do that yet. Now, at that point, Thanksgiving was coming in a couple of weeks, then I was going on vacation with family, and then I was going to India. So I could not be involved with day and night phone calls and interactions I had been doing. So I said, okay, I have to shift my involvement from official to unofficial.

Plus, plus, because I could not get the LT to do what I was asking, I had to step back in that regard as well. I then wrote the strongest email I could on November 21st saying, you must do this, that you must bring in the outside third party. You have to do it. And then I kept being told, okay, we're working with this one. We're working with this one. We're trying to make this happen. We're not resisting.

We want to see it happen. It dragged on and dragged on finally into early January. And then at that point, I made a public statement and said, okay, it's not happening. I will gather leaders together to ask them to oversee this just because I've given my word once I've been called in that, that, that if it doesn't go right, then I'll shout it out to the world. So I followed through to seek to do that. And that's exactly what happened.

You say, well, why are we now in March? I'll tell you that. And then talk about the question of whether I was trying to silence people's voices. I want to get this all out and then move on. I want to get it all out and move on to the glory of God.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back friends to the Line of Fire 866-34 Truth. Only calls on topic today and if you interact with me on social media I don't see 99.9% of comments posted on Facebook or on YouTube. Sometimes I'll see more posted on X but I have to pull away from social media just because of time constraints and working on all the projects we're working on so it's I would love to interact. I love seeing comments and when folks have challenges or critical comments I would love to interact. I mean it's my nature to want to either debate or interact or explain or so I'd love to it's just there's not time for it. I imagine you could understand that as well as as busy as your schedules are and as demanding as social media can be so you may be posting thing and how come you haven't responded to me well 99.9% of times because I never saw it and if I do respond you may respond to me and I'm not going to know for six months because I'm not there all right so now's a good time to call if you're like 866-34 Truth. So back in January I got back on and said okay I've been working behind the scenes this entire time to try to move forward the third party investigation. It's not happening so I will keep my commitment. I will get other leaders together and ask them to oversee an investigation and work with the third party that the advocacy group is happy with that the attorney representing many of those who say they've been sitting against by Mike Bickel that he would work with readily etc and and we'll we'll do our best to make that happen so that's what I did immediately I began to gather leaders and people really praying about it some immediately said they'd be in try to get nationally respected people or people well known on the prayer movement some not as nationally known but well known in the prayer movement or respected by parties on all sides and we're putting that together and then we got word that there was some progress potentially being made with parties different parties working behind the scenes to agree on a third party investigator and for them to agree on leaders I thought wonderful it's far better than me doing it I've got no authority here I'm just trying to keep my commitment and honor the Lord so I step uh step back as that's been developing but as that too has dragged on and dragged on now for a couple of months as folks have been working behind the scenes a number of us felt okay we have to say something now please understand we do not have any governmental authority in this issue I do not the signers of the joint statement do not have any governmental authority here this is simply our understanding and our perspective before the Lord to share these things for whatever it's worth as elders in the body ideally these things would be handled locally by local churches and local leaders and those things that take on international proportions that affect the body worldwide could bring in leaders and a wider scope so I do not claim have any authority here the quicker I can get out of the picture for good the better that would be my joy all right but just understand how these things came about all right so let me play two clips through the first from November 5th this is one statement I made where I brought up social media this is at IHOPKC with the understanding that investigation has started that there was a portal that people could go to that could report sin abuse etc that we didn't need to be fighting this out online and then one statement from less than a month later shortly before I went to India so let's play the first statement this is from IHOPKC November 5th in coming in there was one demand that I had if I was to have any involvement and and it was that a third party has to be brought in a respected independent party that can impartially investigate and give a safe place to those who have allegations accusations to those who say they've been terribly hurt and damaged to give a safe place for them and a safe place for Mike that everyone can come forward before I was called that had already been done the leadership team had already taken that step so when I got here and heard that I was tremendously relieved to hear that already people texted me and word getting out and different things and saying well this is just damage control this is not being done for damage control this is being done to bring the truth to light that's why it's being done it is not being done to protect the team here from lawsuits the whole goal is to have a serious law firm investigate truth because there are very serious allegations that have been made it is the goal is to have an organization I'm not familiar with I I don't deal with these types of things in terms of which organizations do which but another outside outside party involving that's had decades of dealing with very intense situations so that this particular law firm has dealt with serious accusations of sexual abuse and clergy abuse and and really can provide a safe haven for everyone involved so here's my appeal here's my appeal the leadership team has said that this is the first major step when everything is done and the findings are determined they will be released publicly it's very important to know that the findings of this firm will be released publicly and that's that's the goal in all of this for truth to come to light but I want to make this request you may have an opinion right now keep it to yourself it does no good you may want to show how prophetic you are and you're figuring it out grow up this is not the time to be doing that or thinking about my name or my reputation or anything there's a process in place and leaders have said if the process is insufficient they'll go another step all right so that was the that was the first statement I want to make sure that I don't cut off the next one so we may have to play the next the beginning of that so I hope you hear right there I was not trying to silence the voice of victims or keep suppressed people's hurt and pain my understanding was a process had already been set in place that was now being announced now when I saw that that process was not working one week later I was on the phone saying you gotta you gotta make a change and then two weeks later in writing you have to make a change you must bring in a different third party but the whole goal was let's let's not litigate this online what's the use of me sharing my opinion you sharing your opinion let's use social media constructively in other words if I'm going to speak I'm going to try to speak constructively asking others if you're going to post post constructively rather than airing opinions because now there's a way that those that say I'm victim I'm a victim I've been hurt there's a way now for you to air that there's a way for you to deal with that there's a way for you to get that out there's a way for Mike to be held accountable let's go through the right process so saying that of course that's what I hold to of course that's a value just read Jacob James the third chapter maybe I'll read it on the other side of the break about the tongue I mean it's devastating the damage we do with our tongue it's devastating how much false witness is post we bear false witness against each other and slander each other and tear each other down and and spread rumors and innuendos and just I think this I think that and we really need to zip that however in saying that as this has dragged on as the mess was much bigger than I had understood my words were construed as you you keep your pain to yourself and if the only way to compare notes to someone else is through social media you just have to zip it I truly believe that that's what happened because that was never my intent so I 100% stand by our calling to use social media responsibly before God look if I take an hour a day and went on social media I'd find people bearing false witness against me every day posting things just blatantly false you're doing this to cover things up because you're trying to keep your financial arrangement with these guys nonsense idiotic stuff like that you wouldn't even think about a million years or just false stuff this one did this and this one and it's it's all false and then just our attacks and our mean-spiritedness however however I truly regret not understanding the full scope of what was happening and how many had stories they needed to tell and the fact that they felt suppressed I truly regret that we'll be right back if you simply seek to live by biblical values or just conservative moral values you could be cancelled you could be cast out you could be put down you could be silenced I'm here to say friends that I am not about to be silenced and I don't believe you are either it is time for us to stand up it is time for us to say enough is enough it is time for us to push back in Jesus name not fighting the way the world fights no overcoming evil with good overcoming hatred with love overcoming the flesh with the power of the spirit overcoming lies with truth and that's what we're here to do on the line of fire broadcast and friends it's not just a broadcast it is a movement of people around the world God's people standing up saying enough is enough and saying Lord here we are send us use us I want to urge you today to join our support team because we are on the front lines together and we are literally touching people around the world in America in the nations in Israel and together with your help we're going to amplify this voice and spread this movement around the globe so I encourage you go right now to thelineoffire.org thelineoffire.org click donate monthly support thelineoffire.org click donate monthly support when you do you become a torch bearer we immediately send you two great life-changing books we immediately give you access to many classes I've taught others have to pay to take those you get them for free exclusive video audio content a new audio message every month an insider prayer newsletter 15 discount our online bookstore so much more join our support team today go to thelineoffire.org donate monthly support it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for standing with us thanks for our support team our torch bearers who contribute a dollar a day or more and help us put forward our three R's revival in the church gospel-based moral and cultural revolution in society and the redemption of Israel if those values are important to you that's who we are that's what we give ourselves to day and night let's partner together let's accelerate the pace that we can see Jesus return go to thelineoffire.org click donate monthly support but before you do read the list of ways that we will sew back into you and ask yourself is that worth a dollar a day I think you'll say yes all right I want to play the second clip this was from the beginning of December before I went away to India just giving an update and it's it's only six minutes the whole clip but I'm going to play a relevant part that's just two minutes long and then comment once more go ahead hey friends it is December 1st 2023 when you watch this a lot more things may have happened and come to light but I want to be as current and upfront as I can when I got involved when I agreed to come in as an outside advisor to the situation at IHOP KC and the serious allegations that have been brought against Mike Bickel from day one and this is the verse that I used preaching at IHOP KC on that Sunday morning from day one my goal has been for the truth to come to light John 3 21 let everything come into the light let the truth be known where action needs to be taken let it be taken where healing needs to come let there be healing where repentance confession needs to come let it happen that has been my position from day one and that has never changed even though I had to step back from official involvement having spent many many hours privately talking to leaders on all sides doing my best to understand fully the nature of allegations the issues that were being raised from people within the ELT outside the ELT those in quote the complaint group colleagues of mine who were very critical of the process and critical of the ELT I spent many many hours interacting with people privately so this has never stopped but because of travel constraints about to leave for overseas and not being able to interact on the level I needed to in an ongoing way I had to be unofficial plus it's not up to me to tell the ELT what to do hence my unofficial involvement but my pledge has remained the same if the process was not going forward if things were being stonewalled then I would shout it out to the world you say well why haven't you shouted it out to the world things are just dragging on and why are you trying to silence accusers or victims god forbid I try to silence anyone my public stance has been don't gossip don't post public speculation and if you have serious accusations there is a right biblical way to bring them and and there are processes through which this can be done that remains my position all right so that's what I said those were the two comments about social media first I don't have any authority over your life some of you may respect me some don't know me some don't like me but I don't have any authority over your life that's the first thing I appreciate the fact that many took this as a serious exhortation the idea that I was trying to silence people who've been sinned against was the opposite the there there was a there were processes in place or that we were working on to make sure that they had a voice that's what I've worked on there a week hasn't gone by in the last three four months where there hasn't been something I've been involved with making sure that that those people have a voice and there could be a hearing and things can be dealt with properly and there can be righteousness and there can be accountability and there can be healing and there could be ministry but right after that statement went up a pastor that I know and love that knows and loves me that highly respects me called me and he was furious I mean he was furious he was angry and he was telling me to just shut up and I had no idea what I was doing and that I was doing more harm than good and that that this ministry was like a cult and everybody needed to post their stories and put them out and I had no idea what I was doing and you know we we had quite an honest conversation and obviously because he's only been loving and respectful of me in the past I knew that that he was grieving and that he was angry and that what he said I was doing was hurtful so to everyone who was hurt by my words to everyone who heard me saying you don't have a right to be on social media expressing your pain your disappointment your anger you don't have a right to tell your story and and you were hurt by my words please forgive me from the heart it was never my intent and if I lacked wisdom in presenting things more fully more comprehensively understanding more of the situation please forgive me what I don't apologize for is the call to say let's not gossip on social media I don't apologize for saying let our communication be godly and edifying I don't apologize for saying that social media is not the place for us to all just speculate without knowledge and information let this be the goal read through the book of proverbs read through the book of proverbs see what it says about the tongue see what it says about our words and post in accordance with that you say but dr brown there were people we only heard their stories because of social media I understand that the goal was never to suppress stories and the longer this has dragged on I understand stories came out because the right process was not put in place behind the scenes I was continually working for that and others are working for it and and hopefully hopefully progress is being made for the the final right investigation to take place with different people working together than other leaders overseeing it by constant grace may that be the case all right but but hear me friends there I never had any idea that months later we'd still be having these conversations the goal was that everything was going to get out through the proper process in november okay that was the goal in the first week of november and here we are now what's today march 12th this is unimaginable and what I didn't recognize was how many people that had just been part of the ministry now we're saying wait I have a similar story not about sexual abuse but this was wrong or this was wrong and just felt the need to connect with others so I apologize for lack of insight or wisdom in the first week of november I apologize for lack of insight or wisdom to include broader categories and what I was saying to say I'm not saying this or that but I don't apologize by saying we need to step higher with social media I don't apologize for saying let's not bear false witness against one another I don't apologize for saying social media is not the place to adjudicate this case I do not apologize for saying that we've got to stop tearing each other down and attacking each other and and hurting each other it doesn't glorify jesus james jacob chapter 3 that many of you should become teachers my fellow believers because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly we all stumble in many ways anyone who has never at fault and what they say is perfect able to keep their whole body in check when we put boots into the mouths of horses to make them we can turn the whole animal or take ships as an example though they are so large and are driven by strong winds they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go likewise the tongue is a small part of the body but it makes great boasts consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark the tongue also is a fire a world of evil among the parts of the body it corrupts the whole body it sets the whole course of one's life on fire and is itself set on fire by hell all kinds of animals birds reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind but no human being can tame the tongue it is a restless evil full of deadly poison with the tongue we praise our lord and father and with it we curse human beings who have been made in god's likeness out of the same mouth come praise and cursing my brothers and sisters this should not be can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring my brothers and sisters can a fig tree bear olives or grapevine bear friggs neither can a spring produce fresh a salt spring produce fresh water okay a couple more a couple more comments and then we'll go to the phones um on what basis did we say that mike bickel was disqualified from public ministry again we don't have authority in this matter this is simply saying this is our understanding and for people saying where is the accountability where is that where is something we felt the responsibility to speak and say something as these processes and the the proper investigation and people work together is just dragged on these these many months so we do not have authority we're not god's policemen we're speaking as elders in the body those that sign the statement with whatever respect is due to us or not god knows all right but when you read the new testament it doesn't give exact guidelines for many many things exact guidelines for exactly what a church service would look like in every case exact guidelines for exactly how governments and structure should work it doesn't give exact guidelines what to do with a leader who sins repents i want to proclaim in the strongest possible voice redemption and restoration are wonderful beautiful things that all of us live every single one of us lives by the grace of god and redemption and restoration every single one of us without exception we live we live with grace and mercy redemption restoration in jesus salvation is all about that is all about that our walk with god is all about that every single one of us i know people that committed adultery man committed adultery in ministry truly repented didn't get caught came clean truly repented reconciled with god made things right with his spouse is back in ministry today their marriage is stronger their ministry is stronger i know examples like that yes even pastors and senior leaders now in some circles in some circles pastors senior leaders are disqualified from becoming pastors of senior leaders again if they've committed adultery but i can attest to cases like that where i've seen this what the new testament does it doesn't tell the exact process step down for a year two years five years what restoration looks like right because these things are organic and and it's not going to be the same in every single setting but what the new testament does give us the standards standards that leaders must be above reproach and have a good reputation with outsiders if you have crossed lines repeatedly over a number of years so the allegations of mike bickel against mike bickel prophetically manipulating young women and even minors into sexual acts with him over a period of years and then in addition upon being confronted still not fully confessing still not fully repenting still denying there can be glorious personal restoration for mike with repents and he can be closer to jesus than he's ever been but with these lines crossed to be above reproach be fully trusted in public ministry and our judgment that can't happen just like if someone was a pedophile got gloriously wonderfully saved born again right committed to sin before they were saved got gloriously saved born again holy righteous person they'll still never do children's ministry because there's a certain reproach associated and there must be wisdom there so it's based on that there are hundreds of lines you can cross and with true repentance be fully restored and go back into public ministry hundreds of lines but there are other lines when you cross them you bring a lasting reproach that now breaks trust in the future that is the basis for understanding we'll be right back resist us are you or a cherished loved one finding it harder to remember names stay focused or maintain a positive outlook on life well you're not alone i'm dr paul and i have a critical health alert did you know that approximately two out of three americans age 50 and older experience some level of cognitive impairment affecting their daily lives it's a serious issue but there's hope introducing trivetas neuroshine brain support supplement developed by male and john's hopkins trained doctors neuroshine is specifically designed to nurture the healthy development of brain cells and provide defense against neurodegeneration trivetas neuroshine contains bicopaminari shown to enhance verbal learning delayed word recall memory acquisition and reduction of anxiety studies also show an impressive 85 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michael brown get on the line of fire by calling eight six six three four truth here again is dr michael brown welcome back friends to the line of fire thank you triveda our co-sponsor for your loyalty to us and for your generosity to us your generosity to our listeners and viewers you're giving them such great discounts and your generosity to us as a ministry pouring so much funds back into us to help us get onto more radio stations and reach more people neuroshine is part of my daily regimen one of the supplements i take every day as soon as i heard the ad on our show a few months ago i've been ordering it and using it check it out along with your other questions call 800-771-5584 it's 800-771-5584 or go to triveda.com use the code brown 23 all right i'm going to go to the phones very briefly uh very shortly and take some calls before we're done so again the idea of being disqualified from ministry public ministry for life would mean that lines have been crossed of such a nature enough times then only exacerbated by being caught rather than repenting and then not fully repenting upon charges coming to say that in the future because of that a credibility cannot be established fully again prophetic ministry cannot be trusted fully again questions about what might be happening behind the scenes because remember we're talking about sin that continued according to reports for many many years behind the scenes while active ministry was going on right so it's it's one thing if you find someone's leading a double life they come clean they repent they get right with god they get right with people there's true repentance there's true restoration there's true accountability and they're relaunched into ministry and service that can happen beautifully and wonderfully and for anyone struggling come get help come get help if you're struggling come clean to those who have authority over your lives and and and get help go through proper restoration and then move forward and everybody will be blessed because of it you will be and everybody else and that other lines are crossed in this case where you say okay you cannot be above reproach and have that good reputation that's needed to be in public ministry because of this again it's simply our judgment based on our understanding of scripture we do not have authority here we're simply speaking our understanding for the sake of the body lastly there's a statement made that we see the broad strokes of prophetic history associated with ihop kc as being true i drafted the initial statement then dan juster added took away patricia king added took away sam storms different ones had input and then other sign that we signed along with michael and terry celibate and jack deer jack has published an addendum raising further questions about prophetic history i was not involved with that part at all but dan was very closely involved some of the others were very closely involved and dan said look i this is not something that mike came up with he walked into it when it was first prophesied to him about a prayer movement and praying for israel he had he did not have a burden for israel and did not have a vision for prayer so this was something bigger than him that he happened to walk into just like samson had a calling despite his personal sin just like throughout scripture god works things even birth things through people who are not right or there's a mixture or there's something unclean that sin has its consequences we talked about that yesterday that symbol still have its consequences however that was the understanding that yes there have been things that need to be questioned over the years and the devotion to the prophetic history in some type of cult-like way absolutely destructive but having said that that's not a hill for me to die on that was not a major part of the statement but uh dan and some others would say that we were there we've witnessed we've seen things outside of mike before and after mike that we cannot deny in terms of a prophetic calling and destiny with that we love the prayer movement we love houses of prayer we affirm the global prayer movement that's come out of this we affirm houses of prayer that love jesus and worship jesus where god forbid that anyone hears the statement is saying that if you're in a house of prayer or something associated with ihop that you're all part of a cult we're never saying that we said cult-like tendencies developed within ihop because of mike's leadership style because of miss having to memorize prophetic history because of certain elitist mentality that developed on some but there thousands of good-hearted people many served in the leadership there thousands of good-hearted people jesus honoring people that have been part of that and that are part of prayer movements around the world we don't make an idol of 24-7 prayer but if from your heart you're a worshiper you're a prayer warrior let that that incense continue to ascend not in a sense of bondage but devotion to the lord your ministry at the throne is important and we value it and we affirm it all right with that we go to the phones we will start in michael and san diego welcome to the line of fire yes thank you my question is about the panel of Christian leaders that you're putting together it seems like it's taking a long time to come together uh one why doesn't why don't you just make the eight leaders from the joint statement the actual panel and in conjunction with calling for a third party like guy post or something why doesn't the panel itself examine and judge the allegations and thirdly do you think the panel should judge or um examine only mike people or all of ihop kc like jeff dear suggested okay so it thank you for the questions number one it hasn't taken time to put a panel together at all that happened within days or our initial people that were willing to be part of it within days of my statement uh in early january what happened is the the investigation that would be overseen has to be done in coordination with the advocacy group uh which is working with attorneys or an attorney representing many of those who've come forward with allegations against mike uh in other words there can be no investigation without their participation so we've just been waiting on them uh that's that's the only delay there was no delay putting things together i got on that immediately that's the first thing um and it's honoring them because they have been working to try to find the right investigator that would be the right person that would have credibility that could be seen as impartial and then they were continuing to reach out uh with leadership has this been leadership transition at ihop can we do this together and together can we agree on leaders whose verdict we would submit to so to take it away from me because i have no authority in the matter and for them to handle that's the best case and i hope that's what's going to happen so there's been no delay there that's that was done very quickly uh the delay has been that there's a process that they're working on the folks that are working with those who've come forward saying they were sinned against working with leaders that were representing them working with an attorney that was representing them so everything has been in deference to them indifference to those that that would be classified as victims and others it's all been done in deference to them that's another delay um the second thing is the to do a proper investigation is far beyond the ability of me or any of the others we there are all kinds of serious allegations and people who must be heard if things are disputed there may be requests for text messages on phones for email records for all kinds of things so that's that's not my calling that's not the ability to have we didn't have the ability to stop what we're doing and and go to different locations and meet with people face to face and then have the meetings with mike we've tried to reach out to mike and asked can we talk can we interact and he said well i just can't do it that's not the right time maybe means because of attorneys etc um so that's that's not a role and no nobody appointed me to do that all i'm simply trying to do is is accommodate what needs to be done for the good of the body the last the last thing michael is is that um ultimately as the investigation comes through there may be multiple investigations at the end with different groups involved but uh as that goes it takes its course it could well be that serious concerns come up about other culture within ihop kc over the years or other sexual abuses that were covered up or other things like that that being the case then yes there should be further into investigation into all of that as well thank you so much i really appreciate the questions very much uh time for one more call ezekiel in myrtle beach south carolina thanks for calling the line of fire uh hey hello dr michael dr brown um i just want to say have you i've been a long time listener i've listened to a lot of your books uh i love you i have much respect for you but what i'm about to say to you i say that uh as a younger man to an elder in the face but um yo to me i was listening to your the last one you had is there is a whole charismatic thing corrupt now listen to the talk and it's hard for me to take you serious because like you're a leader a leader in the charismatic church and i'm a sausage station it's like i speak in tongues and i'm a sausage station and how can we take you serious when you refuse to call out to call out heretical wolves blaspheme wolves like kenneth copeland and i believe like in carinthians where says uh your works is like gold silver or straw i believe on the day i judge me that that you're gonna have some straw mixed in with your gold because you refuse to call out yeah blaspheming heretical wolves and in love i'm just cutting you off almost so i can respond but let's finish this conversation thank you for speaking respectfully and honestly thank you i i wish everyone would call like this thank you my brother this is a right way to handle things number one i can guarantee you from personal experience and knowing people for decades that some of those that the critics call out as heretical wolves are brothers and sisters in jesus remember ezekiel there are many heresy hunters who say i'm a heretic i'm a wolf etc okay i'm not even saved so just remember that all right that's one two i've told justin peters publicly if the charges you have brought against kenneth copeland doctrinal heresy and others if this is true then he is a wolf if they're if they're true he is a wolf what i said was based on his doctrinal statement and friends who've known him for decades i believe he's an error but not a wolf in any case may god search your whole hearts may we all walk in the fear of the lord