Is the Whole Charismatic Church Corrupt?

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. On the line of fire, as always, we are going to tackle some major controversies together doing our best to bring grace and truth, walking in the fear of the Lord. So glad you could be here to join in the conversation.

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We'll send you immediately the newsletter from last week, excuse me, from last month, which I know will bless you, and then we'll get you in line for the new one coming out in just a few more days. Okay, in light of a major scandal in the charismatic Pentecostal church with increasing numbers of charges coming against, Mike Bickel was a friend and colleague for years, someone that I used to point to as a man that seemed to live an exemplary life, a man of prayer, a man of the word, as far as I knew, a man of integrity and holiness, obviously was quite wrong about some of those issues. Other scandals coming out that relate to it, and so many scandals in the charismatic Pentecostal church, there are some who say, you see, this is proof that the movement itself is bankrupt, that the whole thing is bankrupt. You may have a true believer here or there, or Dr. Brown, we think you're a believer, but the movement itself, the worldwide charismatic Pentecostal church is bogus.

This is the position that some critics hold to, and an incident like this gives further fuel to their fire. I wrote a book, Authentic Fire, 11 years ago, which was a response to Pastor John MacArthur's Strange Fire. I wrote it with respect, but with strong differences over many issues, and one of the issues was saying very, very clearly, not for every single person who is charismatic Pentecostal in the world, but overwhelmingly saying that these people were not saved, these people were not true believers. When I made the statement that millions of healthy babies were being thrown out with some unhealthy bathwater, Phil Johnson's response was, he did it respectfully to me, told me he was going to respond to me and did it at the conference, that they're looking for the babies who can't find any. And when Sam Storms, after Sam Storms and I dialogued with Justin Peters and Jim Osmond, now the footage has been released for who wants to watch our four plus hours, Justin Peters made clear his view that the vast majority of Charismatics Pentecostals are not saved. I categorically differ with that for many reasons, categorically differ with it.

But what I want to do today is get you to think through some big issues, okay? And ultimately we judge everything by the word, right? So if I can demonstrate from the word that the gifts and power of the Spirit should be normative for today, that we're normative, New Testament time should be normative today, if I can demonstrate that around the world that the that the vast majority of those professing to be Pentecostal Charismatic, which is 600 plus million, that the vast majority hold to Orthodox doctrine in terms of what it means to be saved and follow Jesus, then that would be the biggest point. If someone could demonstrate that the vast majority hold to heretical theology about who Jesus is, or what it means to be saved, or the views of scripture, that would be major.

Or if it could be demonstrated that everything happening today is just counterfeit and false or even demonic, that would be major. So I'm saying it's quite the opposite of that. And the reason that so many Pentecostal Charismatic leaders around the world are grieving over this is because it's not the norm. We wouldn't be grieving if this was the norm. We'd just be like, yeah, whatever, that's what happens. No, you have people that work side by side with Mike Bickel for years and years and years and years, and they're absolutely shocked. This is not conduct that they ever imagined would be found in him or any leader they work with.

And there are no scandals among many of the other men who are raising their voices and who are grieved and who are broken because this is not the norm. And I could take you around the world if we had a year, or if we had five years, if we had 10 years, however much time we had, and bring into some of the finest people on the planet, flawed human beings like everybody else, right? We're all in the same boat leading the mercy and grace of God. But take around the world, one ministry after another, one leader after another, one church after another, of Jesus-loving, word-based, soul-winning, Pentecostals, Charismatics.

I could take you all over America, church after church after church after church after church after church. This is not the norm. The scandals are not the norm. The view of Pastor MacArthur when the Pentecostal movement started in the early 1900s, it was largely considered a cult by theological conservatives. And then he brands the movement a farce and a scam from the outset and says, look at the early founders, look at Charles Parham, look at these other guys, they were off, they had problems. Well, in point of fact, the modern Pentecostal Charismatic movement does not start with Charles Parham. It starts decades and decades before that, right? And there are examples of the outpouring of the spirit of India and other countries long before Parham, long before Topeka, Kansas.

That's just the historical reality. If you want more on that, check out the book published by Oxford University Press by Alan Heaton Anderson, To the Ends of the Earth, Pentecostalism and the Transformation of World Christianity. To the Ends of the Earth, Pentecostalism and the Transformation of World Christianity, a fine, solid volume in the Oxford Studies in World Christianity series. So, things do not date back to Parham and interestingly, interestingly, William Seymour and some of the early preachers that were used by God, they were holiness preachers. They didn't believe that you could be baptized in the spirit and speak in tongues until you had been baptized into holiness in God as a consecrated follower of Jesus. They were strong holiness preachers.

Nonetheless, here's what I want to explore. We recognize that sin has consequences. We recognize those consequences can be deadly and destructive. We do not downplay the gravity of those, especially the levels of charges that had come against Mike Bickel, namely prophetic manipulation of younger women and even minors and sexual sin with those people. Those are not minimized and in my understanding, when you cross certain lines and then on top of that where there is not full confession and true repentance of crossing those lines, you cannot simply just go back into public ministry. There are things that disqualify us because you cannot be above reproach and with a good reputation because of the past. It's not to say you can't be restored in God. Look, I know people have committed adultery and their marriage is restored and their ministry is restored and they're stronger than they were before.

I know people that have fallen on all kinds of different ways, lesser ways. There was true repentance. There was deep repentance. Things were handled properly in a private setting because they didn't cross certain lines and they're stronger and healthier than they've ever been. On the other hand, let's say someone struggled with desires for children. They were a pedophile and they act out their desires. They commit sin. They rape a child. They go to jail for it. In jail, they get wonderfully gloriously born again.

They are changed. They are freed. Well, they'll never do children's ministry. Even when they get out of jail, they'll never do children's ministry. There is reproach associated with that. There are certain consequences. We can be restored in God and we can do different aspects of private ministry and behind the scenes things and serve in other ways.

But again, lines have to be fairly severe as in the case right now with Mike Bickel. And by the way, for those who say, how could you be so blind as to not see these things? I can only say this, that if you walk with the Lord long enough, work with enough ministries over enough decades, you'll be surprised to find out that someone that you thought you knew well, you didn't really know. I didn't know Mike well. You know, we'd hang out day and night.

We spent limited hours together. But I considered him a true friend and a real man of God. I was quite wrong about some of my perceptions in terms of holiness and purity, et cetera.

And I say that freely as to others who were much closer to Mike than I was who were absolutely staggered, spending thousands of hours in prayer together with him and staggered to these things. I can only say this, there are some people that are able to deceive. And we do our best to be discerning and have our eyes open. Someone said, hey, it looks like the critics are getting all these things right. Well, I can tell you dozens of people that the critics are wrong about.

So just because they criticize ABC doesn't mean they're right on DEFG. But here's the deeper issue I want to look at. We do not minimize sin. We do not minimize the effects of sin.

We do not minimize the ugliness of sin. That's why together with seven other leaders, we issued a joint statement about the situation with Mike Bickel saying why we understood he was disqualified from ministry. We do not have authority in the situation. It was simply because the investigation that's been called for has been delayed, delayed, delayed, delayed, delayed, and efforts that I made had to be put on hold because the ones that were going to participate with the investigation were trying to work together with others to make things happen.

So I had to wait for the process. So we finally said, okay, we have to say something. So this is our judgment based on our understanding of scripture, and the consequences are severe, and there must, must, must be ministry to those who've been hurt, to those who suffered. That must be a priority to those in the body who've been ruptured over this.

But here's what I want you to understand, and it's so crucial to get this, friends. Every, okay, let me not say every, in many, many instances in scripture, God works through wounded people. God works through broken people.

God works through sinful people. And if you're going to write off the whole Pentecostal charismatic movement because of the conspicuous scandal here and there, you're going to end up writing off much of the entire church. So we're going to come back and go through scripture and look at some things in history.

And if you want to just start writing off everybody, be careful because you write, you might just write yourself off or your own ministry or your own denomination, your own church, you might end up writing yourself off as well. We will be right back. Don't go anywhere.

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Trivita.com and use the code BROWN25. Okay, so when I served in the Brownsville Revival from 1996 to 2000, it began about 11 months before God called me there. When I served in the Brownsville Revival, there were critics who attacked the revival and said it's not really from God.

Why? Well, Steve Hill, the evangelist that God used to spark the revival after years of prayer from John Kilpatrick and the church for an outpouring at Brownsville Assembly of God. Steve was prayed for in Holy Trinity Brompton in England by someone who had been touched in Toronto and the Toronto Blessing. The Toronto Blessing was ignited through Randy Clark after years of prayer from John O'Caranal, not for outpouring of the Spirit. God used Randy Clark and the outpouring began under Randy Clark's ministry. Well, Randy had been prayed for by Rodney Howard Brown and Rodney Howard Brown had roots in Word of Faith. Word of Faith goes back to Kenneth Hagen and Kenneth Hagen goes back to E.W.

Kenyon and E.W. Kenyon was Science of the Mind, therefore Brownsville was Science of the Mind. I mean, I kid you not, I kid you not, that there were actually charts that critics published showing this whole tracing the thing back.

Well, of course, it's bogus on so many levels, but here's the deal. I heard Steve Hill preach hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times, 600 times, 700 times maybe. Some of his sermons were put out in writing.

To this day, you can watch them all over YouTube. He passed away a little over 10 years ago, just a couple days ago. It was the 10th year of his passing. There was not a Word of Faith bone in Steve. There was not a syllable in his preaching.

You could listen to him a million times. That was Word of Faith. It was not whatsoever. Nor was John Kilpatrick a Word of Faith pastor. Nor was I Word of Faith called to raise up and lead the school and teach and preach within the revival. Nor was Toronto Word of Faith. Nor is Randy Clark Word of Faith to this day.

So this whole genetic fallacy, you trace it back to this, it's completely bogus. Find out who the people are, their own spiritual lineage, their own spiritual background, who Steve Hill is and was and other leaders that were used in the revival. Find out their own spiritual lineage and heritage. You'll trace Steve back to Leonard Ravenhill and David Wilkerson and people like that. When I was asked to write an endorsement before the Brownsville days of Steve's little devotional, On Earth As It Is in Heaven, which was Robert Murray McShane's daily Bible reading plan with a quote for each day. All the quotes first were from people who were already deceased. All the quotes were from people who were already dead. And when Leonard Ravenhill said to him, how come you're only quoting people who were deceased? He goes, because they can't backslide.

If I quote someone living, they might backslide. But they were Puritans and they were these deep spiritual roots of conviction and holiness and repentance. That's how I got to know Steve. I said, wow, this guy's got spiritual depth. That's why he relates to Leonard Ravenhill and Leonard Ravenhill likes him. That's where we went through David Wilkerson's school.

I can see it. So let's find out who the people really are. But here, we'll use the genetic fallacy and let's see what we can throw out, okay? If you are a Southern Baptist, throw out everything in every church that's Southern Baptist. Throw it all out.

Why? Well, how would the Southern Baptist birth? It's not a mystery. I only found out a few years ago and find that many don't know to this day. They broke with the Northern Baptists over slavery. The Southern Baptist Convention, the Southern Baptists began as a breakaway group from the Northern Baptists. You didn't have Northern and Southern Baptists before. They broke away over the issue of slavery because they wanted to have their slaves and they theologically justified it. So based on that, then, the movement was born in sin, throw out everything having to do with Southern Baptists. That's not my position that you throw it out. I'm just saying, if you want to argue like this, let's go ahead and do it and throw out the entire Southern Baptist Convention.

Hang on. The chief seminary, they've got many schools, but the best known Southern Baptist Theological Seminary led by Dr. Al Mohler, all four founders were slave owners who justified slave holding. So you throw out the seminary. Everyone's graduated through the decades and they continued to support segregation, Southern Baptists did. It was only in 1995 that they repented and said this was wrong and then subsequently leadership in the seminary repented for their early positions. The fact is, God worked among the Southern Baptists despite their sin. He worked among them despite the fact they justified slavery.

He worked at the seminary despite the fact that the founders were slaveholders. Does that minimize the egregious, sinful, horrific, barbaric nature of slavery? No. Does it minimize the wrongness of the people and their positions? No.

Does it minimize the wrongness of being on the wrong side of segregation? No. But it recognizes that God works through sinful people.

Are there consequences to the sin? Yes. For sure.

Absolutely. But if you want to try to argue genetic fallacy, oh tell you what, in a moment I'm going to go back to Martin Luther. Right off the entire Protestant church. Right off all the Presbyterians, all the Lutherans, all the Methodists, all the Baptists, all the Pentecostals. Right them all off because we go back to Martin Luther who broke with the Catholic church of his day, the Protestant Reformation. So throw out the Protestant church, oh shall we mention the sins of Catholic leaders through the centuries? Maybe throughout the entire Catholic church. And if you're Orthodox, let's go back to one of the founding fathers of Orthodoxy, Greek-Russian Orthodox.

John Chrysostom, golden mouth. Shall we talk about the seven sermons against the Jews that were reprinted by the Nazis? Maybe throw that all out. Yes we hold standards high. And yes we test everything by the word. But if you're going to start writing this group off, you're going to write off everybody soon enough.

Soon enough you will. You might as well write off apologetics ministry because probably the world's best apologist, Christian apologist, Ravi Zacharias. A mountain of sin exposed after his death, some confronted before his death, a mountain exposed afterwards. Does that tarnish all apologists?

Or how many do you have to have? What about all the ongoing scandals within the Southern Baptist Convention to this day? There's a website I saw, run from the Baptist because they've got all these sexual scandals among the Baptists. Yes God's refining his church. Yes God is purifying. Yes God is shaking. Yes I personally walk in holy fear before God because I recognize we all stand by grace. Let him who thinks that he stands take heed lest you fall.

First Corinthians 10 12. Let's all get low. An examiner says I'm much more comfortable saying we all need to repent. Let's get low and search my own heart.

I'm much more comfortable doing that than pointing your finger at this one or this one or this one. I would much rather spend all my time before God saying Lord take me deeper. Cleanse me. Purify me that I can shine for you. Help us all to be who you called us to be.

But please hear me. If you're going to write off whole groups you may end up writing off the whole church. We come back. We're going to look at Martin Luther and then we're going to go back through the Bible and get some grace here to realize God is still working despite human sin and human failure.

Yes that human sin is costly and that human failure is dealt with but God is still working in the midst of it. It's who he is. It's what he does. We'll be right back. Hey friends Michael Brown here. My delight to serve as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. We are living in such urgent times today friends that all of us are in the line of fire. There's a target on your back.

There's a target on my back. If you simply seek to live by biblical values or just conservative moral values you could be canceled. You could be cast out. You could be put down. You could be silenced. I'm here to say friends that I am not about to be silenced and I don't believe you are either. It is time for us to stand up. It is time for us to say enough is enough. It is time for us to push back in Jesus name. Not fighting the way the world fights.

No. Overcoming evil with good. Overcoming hatred with love. Overcoming the flesh with the power of the spirit. Overcoming lies with truth and that's what we're here to do on the line of fire broadcast and friends it's not just a broadcast it is a movement of people around the world. God's people standing up saying enough is enough and saying Lord here we are send us use us. I want to urge you today to join our support team because we are on the front lines together and we are literally touching people around the world in America in the nations in Israel and together with your help we're going to amplify this voice and spread this movement around the globe so I encourage you go right now to the line of fire.org the line of fire.org click donate monthly support the line of fire.org click donate monthly support when you do you become a torch bearer we immediately send you two great life-changing books we immediately give you access to many classes I've taught others have to pay to take those you get them for free exclusive video audio content a new audio message every month an insider prayer newsletter 15 discount online bookstore so much more join our support team today go to the line of fire.org donate monthly support it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire to weigh in on today's topic I'm only taking calls that tie in directly with today's topic 866-348-7884 so during my interaction with Dr. Sam Storms and me together interacting with Justin Peters Jim Osmond videotaped by Brandon Kimber who's put out American gospel one two and three but this is separately recorded and put out so it's not part of AG3 as it was originally scheduled to be because I wasn't happy with where AG3 was going very different than I expected so according to our contractual discussion if I wasn't happy with things I could step out which I did but allowed the footage to be used in full unedited and I believe now available for free viewing on YouTube so yeah I regret Sam and I regret the fact that we pointed to Mike Bickel as someone exemplary we were wrong we're wrong now in the dialogue he was not accused of some kind of sexual sin or being a predator or anything like that didn't come out but we went back and forth on different issues and I pressed Justin Peters and Jim Osmond on on Martin Luther and whether Luther was qualified to be in ministry and even though they knew what he said that Jewish synagogues should be set on fire and their places of business broken down and destroyed that Jewish rabbis should be forbidden to teach under penalty of death that passport privileges should be revoked that they should be deprived of good jobs that they should be herded together in ghettos like gypsies even though they knew he said that they still said he was straight from ministry so I really pushed further and I read some additional quotes all right I just want to get to them here just search for one word so the the peasants okay whoops just search for the wrong word let me try this again this is what Martin Luther said about the peasants there was you know uprising with German peasants Luther said this like the mules who will not move unless you perpetually whip them with rods so the civil powers must drive the common people whip choke hang burn behead and torture them that they may learn to fear the powers that be they all said a peasant is a hog for when a hog is slaughtered it is dead in the same way the peasants is not thinking about the next life otherwise he would behave very differently Luther said this about the peasants who felt terribly betrayed by them because earlier he had supported their cause he said this on the obstinate hardened blinded peasants let no one have mercy let everyone as he is able you stab slay lay about him as though among mad dogs so that peace and safety may be maintained and the historian William Graf said this when he was in later years reproach for such violent language and for inciting territorial lords to merciless slaughter they killed over a hundred thousand peasants in Luther's day he answered defiantly it was I Martin Luther who slew all the peasants in the insurrection for I commanded them to be slaughtered all their blood is upon my shoulders but I cast it on the Lord God who commanded me to speak in this way this is horrific language this is inexcusable when I pressed Justin and Jim and this is respectful doll I got I hope you can watch all of it and and hear what we each had to say because they're very sympathetic with many concerns that they bring and many issues that they raise and I look at them as men who fear God and care about the body but they ultimately said Martin Luther should not have been in ministry okay so then by implication that disqualifies all of Protestant reformation if if we want to argue in these ways rather than saying what he said was despicable and deplorable and excusable yet God worked through him that's that's what you have to say hey do you hold to a pre-trip rapture Pastor MacArthur's pre-trip right do you hold her preacher rapture David Jeremiah I mean many prominent Christian leaders around America pre-trip it's been a dominant view among many believers for decades now well Dave McPherson years back made an excellent case that you could trace this back to two sisters who were prophesying in Scotland in the 1830s an early manifestation of Pentecostal charismaticism and and you could trace it back to there and then certainly to J.N. Darby etc and then popularized by C.I. Schofield I've had people say Schofield was corrupt Schofield was a charlatanist okay ultimately what we do is we we examine it based on scripture but I I could write off all those who hold to a a pre-trip rapture and say that goes back to phony roots all right now let me say this one more time sin is costly sin is deadly sin can not be minimized to repeat I'm only taking calls on today's topic so don't call in on any other topic we won't be getting to your call okay but please hear me sin is deadly sin is costly sin must be dealt with if there's sin if there's junk in your own life if there's things you know are displeased into the lord turn to him for mercy right now ask him to cleanse you ask him to wash you ask him to transform you if you don't know him as savior and lord ask him lord wash me clean I believe Jesus died for my sins I believe he rose from the dead and I know I've blown it I know I've sinned I'm guilty wash me clean give me a brand new start god I want you to be my father Jesus I want you to be my lord if you'll truly say that from the heart he'll meet you'll have mercy on you if you're a believer you know the lord and there's sin in your life willful sin turn to him in repentance get right with him whatever needs to be fixed fixed it if it can be fixed just alone with you and god if it involves other people fix it wherever you need to fix it get right with god humble yourself sin is deadly sin is costly the reality is though that god still works through human sin our sin is destructive but he works through human beings he often works in the midst of our sinful behavior and turn things around to teach us to instruct us but often he works through people who are weak and broken people now if you are a wounded leader and you don't get those wounds healed you're probably going to wound others and if you're a leader and you're back and forth back and forth with sin and and you do not truly and rightly repent and and go through whatever you need to to get these things right and restored before god that sin is going to corrupt and hurt a whole lot of other people with true repentance there can be glorious and beautiful restoration and again many things can be dealt with privately some things publicly it depends on what lines are crossed all right let's let's go back through the bible who did abraham marry who did abraham marry his half-sister sarah now there's not a word of reproach about that in the bible and it's everything we read is a god-ordained relationship through whom the promised seed comes but according to leviticus 18 this was forbidden later on so for whatever reason it was okay then it was forbidden later on not just for israel but for everybody according to leviticus 18 well let's let's move on to jacob all right let's move on to jacob so jacob steals his brother's birthright well he gets isaiah to sell it okay so he connives he gets him to sell it but whatever that's who he was that's what he did he didn't lie he just manipulated to get it when he saw was weak but then in in genesis chapter 27 he goes along with the council of his mother rebecca and he deceives his father isaac into giving him the blessing of the firstborn now i i want to read this to you so you can see how serious jacob's sin was this is in exodus excuse me genesis chapter 27 so esau goes out hunting isaac thinking i may be dying soon i want to bless esau and there was power in these patriarchal blessings and when they spoke it couldn't be revoked so he he wants to bless his firstborn son esau he says hey go out hunt for me get some of that game that i love so rebecca says all right listen jacob's mother because she preferred jacob here do what i'm telling you to do and get these goat skins and put it on his arm so it looks like wow this that's because esau was a really hairy guy and here i'm gonna i'm just gonna kill one of our own animals i'm gonna cook it up this way my husband likes it and you go in and because he's almost blind can't he's barely see you tell him that you're esau right so he went into he went into his father and said my father and he said here i am who are you my son saw isaac says who are you jacob said to his father i am esau your firstborn i have done as you told me now sit up and eat of my game that your soul may bless me he's lying he's lying to his father to get his father's blessing which is a blessing from god but isaac said to his son how is it that you have found it so quickly he answered because the lord your god granted me success that's blasphemous that's or the really he's taken the name of the lord in vain he said that god was with me that's what i was able to do it whereas the fact is his mother just cooked up the food right there because he didn't go hunting for it and he continues to lie and then isaac asked him again after going back and forth because he said it feels like esau but it sounds like jacob he said are you really my son esau he answered i am i it's painful to read this the lying but that's how the birthright comes to him now here's here's what becomes even even more amazing and more incomprehensible you get to genesis chapter 28 um jacob is now going to flee because esau wants to kill him so isaac calls jacob and blesses him and gives him a directive about not taking your wife from the Canaanite women and god's going to bring you back his son just lied to him just deceived him stole his brother's blessing now isaac blesses him and then god appears to him god visits him and makes a covenantal agreement with him in genesis the 28th chapter god had purposes to accomplish and he accomplished them even in the midst of human sin even because of human sin but but it gets worse jacob now marries two sisters he didn't choose to marry two he chose to chose to marry one but when he was given the other one first without him even knowing like the middle of the night and drunk who knows what partying at the marriage celebration doesn't realize it's it's not it's not it's not rachel it's leah so he ends up sleeping with the sister then finds in the morning realize wait well you're not who i thought you were and then oh hey no problem we'll give you the other one so he marries two sisters that was detestable according to leviticus 18 and forbidden for later israelites so the deal is god works in the midst of human sin if he's a redeemer sin has consequences but this is through history he works in the midst of human sin are you or a cherished loved one finding it harder to remember names stay focused or maintain a positive outlook on life well you're not alone i'm dr paul and i have a critical health alert did you know that approximately two out of three americans age 50 and older experience some level of cognitive impairment affecting their daily lives it's a serious issue but there's hope introducing trivetas neuroshine brain support supplement developed by male and johns hopkins trained doctors neuroshine is specifically designed 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brown 25 to receive 25 off your order as a new customer 100 of your order proceeds from your first order will go to support the line of fire radio broadcast call 1-800-771-5584 1-800-771-5584 or online at trivita.com it's the line of fire with your host dr michael brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is dr michael brown you know every single week we send out multiple articles i post between four and five new articles every week and then we've got multiple new videos we're putting out it may be hard to keep track of everything you may miss when we post on social media so the best thing is when you sign up for a frontline newsletter which comes out once a month we're just putting together another frontline newsletter from march we send it out mid-march when we when we put this out you will not only get the frontline newsletter when you sign up but once a week you'll get an update with our latest articles and videos so you just have it right there at a glance what you're interested in what you want to share with others what you want to post what you want to learn from so go to the line of fire.org run on the home page sign up for the frontline newsletter you'll get the weekly updates as well with latest articles and videos so we can do our best five days a week and then weekends too 24 7 and fuse you with faith and truth and courage to help you stand strong on the front lines uh let me let me get you to consider something David sins grievously with Bathsheba now was she a willing partner was she on the roof to seduce him was she raped by David we don't know we don't have those details but we know that he commits adultery with her and has her husband killed when he finds out she's pregnant right so as wicked as it gets now he's the king he can do whatever in the world he wanted and it's certainly to people he was unaccountable he was above the law but not to god not to god and uh after after he kills Bathsheba's husband Uriah he then takes her as his wife so it is a union that was the result of adultery and murder he is then confronted by a prophet Nathan and he repents deeply immediately and deeply and he writes psalm 51 as a psalm of repentance and because of his sin the baby dies his sin or their sin the baby dies but then they have a baby after that Solomon and and think of this in Hebrew his name god gives him the name Jedidiah Jedidiah in English in Hebrew which means Jedidiah in Hebrew which means beloved of the lord Jedidiah and and then god appears to Solomon twice and god was ready to give the kingdom of David over to Solomon meaning that we think of the throne of Solomon and the and and the son of Solomon is the messiah rather than the throne of David and the son of David he was willing for the legacy to go through Solomon of course Solomon sins horrific ways with idolatry and with injustice for the people and then with flagrant immorality 300 wives 700 concubines etc just crazy crazy and ends up destroying things now David's sin has consequences in an ongoing way for the people of Israel and you could say it then paves the way for Solomon's sin so there were deadly destructive consequences of the sin nonetheless hear me nonetheless after David's repentance god called the child of David and Bathsheba beloved of the lord and god appeared to him twice and granted in wisdom and would have greatly magnified his life and ministry god's redeemer god is a redeemer yes there are things that we do lines we cross in this world that have lasting consequences for example you might have been a believer got discouraged got drunk got into a car accident and and now you hit a car and and one family member dies in that car and others crippled for life you're going to go to jail and you have to live with that reality the rest of your life even though you can be forgiven and redeemed and god can bring good out of it and through your error life can come to others but there are consequences so we don't minimize the consequences of sin but we recognize god's a redeemer and in all of our history and all of our lives we see it and we we see it in in the wider body of christ well samson god calls samson god calls samson before the he's even born dredges 13 knowing who samson is going to be called to be an azerite knowing though he's going to break his his covenant ultimately samson sleeps with the philistine prostitution in the middle of the night he then gets up and carries the city gates on his shoulders the supernatural strength was still there the supernatural strength was still there even though he was sinning ultimately his sin cost him his life his sin cost him his strength his sin cost him his eyes his very eyes were were gouged out his reputation and he ultimately died to kill more philistines let me die with the philistines he said he killed more in his death than he had in his life they were the enemies of israel but he was gifted by god and the gifts still operate it's a very scary passage to me judge is 16 the gifts still operated even though samson was in sin just because the gift operates in somebody doesn't mean they're anointed by god or walking rightly with god or god sanctions them you can't just make that generalization you have to see how the person lives in the cognitive of the lies and the testimony over a period of years let's not judge for one momentary thing but let's i don't mean momentary murder rape but i'm saying let's judge the pattern of someone's life for decades and years and years and years and years and see if they're walking in integrity and purity etc but we've got to realize that we're going to throw out this whole movement because of this one or throw out a whole denomination or group careful careful careful and and last example karenth think of all the junk there you got a guy sleeping with his father's wife and they're celebrating their liberty they're denying the resurrection the future resurrection they're they're literally dying because of the abusive way that they're partaking of the lord's supper they all kind of division faction they're abusing tongues by just speaking in tongues constantly around non-believers and things and and paul commends them for the working spirit he doesn't deny that it's not the spirit it is the spirit it is the spirit he doesn't deny that for a split second but but he now deals with the sin and the and the division so the holy spirit has been poured out and is being poured out among hundreds of millions worldwide it's genuine it's beautiful it's glorious it's powerful and there are doctrinal ers that must be addressed and there's sin issues that must be addressed but you don't throw out the hole because of the aberrations you deal with the aberrations and where there are aberrations that go back to the foundations you you see what needs to be fixed on a foundational level there's a whole lot more we're going to unpack this week but i just wanted to deal with these issues we want to talk about the kindness and severity romans 11 tells us to to look at the kindness and severity of god where is there mercy mercy mercy grace grace grace love love when is there fear of god consequences let's let's talk these issues through together and i actually have time for a call or two so we'll we'll go over to san diego michael thanks for calling what's on your mind sir are you there yeah yes my question is about uh the definition of false teacher to me the false teacher is someone who uses the name of the world as to amplify their own self-esteem their love for purposes so when i look you know mike pickle who we're talking about now i kind of see both i do see how he used god's name for his own evil purposes but it also does seem that he has a genuine love for god which is uh and things on the earth in that way speaking do you how process this do you consider him false teacher and should we continue to uh respect him or to recommend his books um yeah thanks thanks yeah i'm just gonna jump in only so i can answer and you're coming in and out yeah so it's just it's hard to hear i apologize but you're you're cutting in and out in the connection okay because we have so much evidence of serious sinful issues decades back an investigation we'll find out through the years how recently because the nature of some of these no i could not recommend his teaching or books or material even if the content itself is good even if there were things that god did through him i and i believe he did and things that god gave him because of a gift just like like like solomon or samson had gifts gift of wisdom to solomon gift of strength to samson no i could no i could not recommend the materials because everything is tainted now and every line you're reading you're reading in that tainted light with what i call him a false teacher if i believe that he was not regenerate that he was not born again at all that he was a wolf in sheep's clothing then of course i would say false teacher i do not see him that way now others may have others have a different definition so i understand why someone would brand him a false teacher because of the sin issues because the moral issues and because of what appear over the years to be exaggerations about prophecy or different things like that although there seem to be other things that were real and genuine but my understanding of a false teacher is that person is not a believer so unless someone categorically says he's not a believer and many would say that now then they would say false teacher when i say false prophet false teacher false apostle i understand that is a an unsafe person a a servant of satan as paul says in second corinthians 11 13 to 15 or a wolf in sheep's clothing in in the words of jesus in matthew 7 15 to 20 or someone bringing down the both heresies in the words of second peter to one now by all means listen to the discussion that sam storms and i had with justin peters and jim osmond and hear why justin and jim feel differently why they would say you can be a believer if you're teaching falsely prophesying falsely falsely claiming to be an apostle then you are a false teacher false prophet false apostle even as a believer but so i want you to hear their definition once you hear their argument i want you to hear both sides of the discussion and weigh it out for yourself i only use the term if i to my understanding the person is not regenerate they are not born again they are those in sheep's clothing servants of satan that's when i use the term others use it more broadly and they have their argument for it and it's an argument that should be heard my friends made me walk in the fear of god let's search our own hearts let's search our own lives and let's get low because god is holy another program powered by the truth network