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Is God Finished with Israel?

The Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
February 2, 2024 4:40 pm

Is God Finished with Israel?

The Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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February 2, 2024 4:40 pm

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Is God finished with Israel? We'll address that question and take your calls today, right here on the Line of Fire. Thank you for joining us on the Line of Fire.

Michael Brown, delighted to be here with you. I'm going to take as many calls as I can to answer the opening question. Number to call 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. When we first went to live radio five days a week and I'd heard Rush Limbaugh with Open Line Friday, I thought, I like that idea. Any subject goes.

We'll go in any directions. 866-348-7884. As a reminder, if you're not getting our cutting edge, impacting, equipping Frontline newsletter, be sure to sign up for it today. That's at, It's absolutely free. And we'll put you on our welcome tour, share more of my testimony from LSD to PhD, the three R's of our ministry. Share all of that with you via email and then send you our monthly Frontline newsletter.

All right. We address the simple question, is God finished with Israel? There are some who hold to partial Preterist teaching, they would call it, and then full Preterist teaching, which goes full blown heretical in certain ways. And they say that God is finished with Israel as a nation. Individual Jews can be saved like anyone else. But when the temple was destroyed, that was God's final verdict. It is over for the nation of Israel. God is finished with them.

He has cursed the fig tree forever. So there will be no national regathering of the Jewish people back to the land. There will be no national turning of the Jewish people to the Messiah at the end of the age. Individual Jews can be saved, yes, but God is finished with Israel. And the purposes of God that were established through Israel are fulfilled exclusively through the church because God is finished with Israel. Now, full Preterists who say that the Second Coming has already happened, that the resurrection of the dead has already happened, that we are living in the new Jerusalem now, they've stepped over in heretical lines. They're partial Preterists, brothers and sisters in the Lord, with whom I have very deep differences. David Chilton said this, known for his commentary on Revelation, he said, The book of Revelation, this is a brother in the Lord with whom I have differences, the book of Revelation is not about the second coming of Christ.

It is about the destruction of Israel and Christ's victory over his enemies in the establishment of the new covenant temple. I give you many other quotes similar to that where a similar position is espoused. Now, what's interesting is I was looking for some websites that just laid out quotes in this position.

And one where I found this quote from David Chilton, one from Gary DeMar with whom I've had a couple of friendly debates, so a brother with whom I have strong differences and in many areas, of course, we have in common. So, I saw this website and it was about God's wrath being executed on Israel in the year 70. And his support, a quote of Romans 11, 7 through 10.

And I looked at that and I thought, that is mind-boggling. Because Paul addresses the question, is God finished with Israel, in Romans 11, 11, and says, absolutely not. So, Romans 11 verses 7 to 10, he says this, that what then Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking, the elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened as it is written. And then he gives them the verses about the spirit of stupor and then let their backs be turned, bend their backs forever, right? So, he's saying judgment has come, hardness has come, a spirit of stupor has been given to the nation and they don't believe in the Messiah. And that proves it's over forever. Well, the very next verse, Paul asks the question, so have they stumbled so as to fall, meaning fall beyond recovery.

Meaning fall and not be able to get back up. And he says, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, you talk about butchering the Bible. Quoting verses 7 to 10 to prove your point, when Paul explicitly says in the very next verse, no, no, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. NIV, again I ask, did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all, rather because of their transgressions, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. NET, I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not. NLT, mild paraphrase, did God's people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not.

I'll read some more, here's an amplified one, again just to expand how different translators understand it. So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall to their utter spiritual ruin irretrievably? By no means. CEB, so I'm asking you, they haven't stumbled so that they've fallen permanently, have they? Absolutely not. CJB, in that case, I say, isn't it that they have stumbled with the result that they have permanently fallen away? Heaven forbid. Quite the contrary. CEB, do I mean that the people of Israel fell never to get up again? Certainly not. GW, God's word. So I ask, has Israel stumbled so badly that it can't get up again? That's unthinkable.

And then, the message, this is a paraphrase, but it's a good paraphrase, it brings out the meaning. The next question is, are they down for the count? Are they out of this for good?

And the answer is a clear cut, no. Ironically, when they walked out, they left the door open and the outsiders walked in. But the next thing you know, the Jews were starting to wonder if perhaps they had walked out on a good thing. Now, if they're leaving triggered this worldwide coming of non-Jewish outsiders to God's kingdom, just imagine the effect of their coming back, what a homecoming. So that's reading on to the verses that follow.

Now here's what's also fascinating. If we keep reading, Romans 11, 11 to 15, some of the most important passages in the Bible about Israel, Paul says this. So we've read verse 11, verse 12. Now, if their trespass means riches for the world and their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean?

Next verse. Now, I'm speaking to the Gentiles and as much then as I'm an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? And verse 16, you don't hear a lot of preaching on. If the doe offered his firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump. And if the root is holy, so are the branches.

What does that mean? If the doe offered his firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. Now, I want to read a couple of commentaries.

I've got technical commentaries that are very lengthy and detailed and to pull out the little segments and read them, it's not necessarily coherent and clear for live talk radio. So what I want to do is read a commentary from a popular Bible and then an excerpt from the highly regarded commentary of Charles Hodge, an older commentator. Jameson, Fawcett, and Browns. In a popular commentary, they said this, But if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy. And if the root, so the branches. The Israelites were required to offer to God the firstfruits of the earth, both in their raw state in a sheaf of newly reaped grain, Leviticus 23, 10 and 11, and in their prepared state, made into cakes of dough, numbers 15, 19 to 21, by which the whole produce of that season was regarded as hallowed.

It is probable that the latter of these offerings is here intended, as to it the word lump best applies. And the argument of the apostle is that as the separation unto God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from the rest of mankind, as the parent stem of their race, was as real as an offering of firstfruits as that which hallowed the produce of the earth, and so, in a divine estimation, it was as real as a separation of the mass or lump of that nation of all time to God. The figure of the root and its branches is of like import, the consecration of the one of them extending to the other.

Charles Hodge, and then I'll give a simple explanation and then straight to the phones. The connection of this verse with the preceding, its import and bearing on the apostle's object are therefore clear. The restoration of the Jews, which will be attendant with such beneficial results for the whole world, is to be expected because of their peculiar relationship to God as his chosen people. God, in selecting the Hebrew patriarchs and setting them apart for his service, had reference to their descendants as well as to themselves, and designed that the Jews as a people should to the latest generations be specially devoted to himself. They stand now therefore and ever have stood in a relation to God which no other nation has ever sustained, and, in consequence of this relation, their restoration to the divine favor is an event in itself probable, and the moment which Paul afterwards teaches, verses 25 and 26, God has determined to accomplish. In other words, God set Israel aside for a purpose, for a holy purpose, and that holy purpose remains. If the firstfruits are holy, so is the whole batch of dough. If the root's holy, so are the branches. It doesn't mean holiness in terms of personal relationship to God or being right with God.

It means holiness in terms of set apart for divine service. So it applies to the whole nation, even in unbelief. Even though Jewish people without Jesus the Messiah are as lost as anyone else, the promise still remains.

The purpose still remains. Paul emphatically says, no, no, no, no, no. God is not finished with Israel. As my wonderful wife of almost 48 years, Nancy, likes to say, period, the end. That's no more discussion. That's it.

Period, the end. Has the nation of Israel fallen beyond the point of recovery? I'm not talking about individual Jews being saved.

That's a given. Has it fallen beyond the point of recovery? No, no, no.

Paul, are you saying God's finished with Israel? No, never. Heaven forbid. No way. Absolutely not. I mean, the Greek is so strong. That's why the King James says, God forbid.

Absolutely not. Rather, their rejection, they're rejecting the gospel means now it's gone to the Gentile world. Say, an axe pole would go to a synagogue and preach when the message was ultimately rejected except by a handful. He'd now go to the Gentiles. So Israel's rejection of the Messiah now brings the message to the Gentile world. And then, conversely, as the Gentiles come to know the Messiah and walk in the fullness and life of the Spirit, it provokes Israel to envy, which leads now to Israel turning back en masse.

Why? Because the purposes of God will be accomplished because he has decreed it and he has ordained it. It doesn't guarantee the salvation of a single Jewish person today outside of Jesus Yeshua.

But it does guarantee that the purposes of God stand. Not because of Israel's faithfulness, but because of God's faithfulness. Not because of Israel's goodness, but because of God's goodness. Not because of Israel's tenacity, but because of God's tenacity. That's why we exist. We've been disciplined, but we've been preserved.

We've been brought back to the land. And it's telling us that the final redemption is getting a step nearer. And if you care about the return of Jesus, you should care about the salvation of Israel. Is God finished with Israel? Absolutely. Categorically not.

Perish the thought. The national purposes still remain. And they are evidenced by God preserving us as we've been scattered around the world, and now bringing us back to the land. We come back, we go straight to your call. Right here, on the line.

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This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We are going straight to the calls. 866-348-7884.

We'll start with Zach in Texas. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hey, Dr. Brown. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Okay. So I had a question about in the past sometimes I've prayed and then my eyes would flutter. Like it was my eyelids like opening and closing fast.

Well, not really opening, but it was kind of like that. And I was just wondering because I grew up in a conservative background and I didn't know if that had meant like any significance or potential means of gift or something. And I want to just have a potential, another perspective on what it could mean or so.

Yeah, so I appreciate the question that you're asking it. To me, it would have no significance, meaning it's just something that happens. And it may happen because it happened a couple of times and now my mind kind of goes there. And it just becomes like an involuntary thing that in my mind it just triggers a certain thing in my mind. Or it may be some spiritual phenomenon. But since the Bible doesn't tell us to look for indications like that, it doesn't say it's a sign of any particular thing. If it happened to me, I would not focus on it in any way. I would not think about it, focus on it.

However, let me say this. If it becomes a sign to you of God's presence or spirit and he begins to move in certain ways. For example, their colleagues of mine that have prayed for the sick and they feel, they literally feel something in their hand as they're praying for people and that's like a sign to them to pray. Or I've had times ministering where I feel the presence of God on my body in a tangible way.

It would be like someone wrapped a coat on me or something. In other words, you could feel it in a tangible way and I would know it's a sign of God's presence and I would be especially in tune. But there are so many reasons why your eyes could flutter that I wouldn't even want to think about it.

I wouldn't focus on law. I'd just focus on prayer and intimacy with God, being with him. But if it in any way is an indication to you that something else comes with it. In other words, not just your eyes fluttering, but the voice of God or the leading of God or some grace to serve him in a particular way. Then it's like, oh, that's that's like a little sign to me of this particular thing. So I would put no mind to it unless it's accompanied with something tangible and real and substantial.

In which case, oh, this is interesting. It's that little sign that the spirits at work. So it can be a distraction. It can be where we focus on the wrong thing.

And the word of God nowhere tells us to use those things as as as indicators. But there are things that can happen. That's the key thing.

If it's coupled with something else of spiritual substance, it can get your attention. Otherwise, don't give it a second thought. Okay? Okay. Thank you. You are very welcome. 866-348-7884.

We go to John in Wilmington, Delaware. Welcome to the line of fire. How are you doing, Dr. Brown? Very well.

Thank you. So I have a question as a I have a friend who's Christian forever and asked me to sign a document that a license to carry a permit. He just wants to carry. But are Christians like is that. Is it OK? Do you think it's OK to endorse somebody who is respectable, who would never do anything? It's more for protection than, you know, doing anything wrong. Like from from a biblical perspective, do you think there's anything wrong with signing off saying that you believe it's OK for this person to carry?

Sure. If if it's simply for that purpose, for self-defense and it's responsible person self-defense is is not prohibited in scripture. And I know where you're asking, you know, Jesus saying, don't resist evil if someone slaps on the one cheek, turn the other cheek to them. That that has to do with personal retaliation.

That has to do with trying to get back at someone who hurt you, which is something very different. How how would you feel if there was a woman who wanted to come to an academy that you taught different martial arts for the purpose of self-defense? And she really wanted to learn them for the purpose of self-defense. You know, she'd want to carry a gun.

But if someone ever tried to attack her, she wanted to know how to throw the person off. Would you have an ethical problem with that as a Christian? Absolutely not. OK. Same thing with a gun. It would be it would be for the same purpose.

You know, self-defense the same way if you sold pepper spray or mace and you know, or you press something in a lot, you know, it's this this loud alarm for self-defense. Now, think of this also. What about a Christian being a police a policeman? Is that OK? Do you have an issue with that? No. What about being a soldier? If we're getting invaded by terrorists and they're flooding our border and they're trying to take out your city, would you have problems with soldiers fighting against them? No.

And that was actually going to be my follow up question. Is it OK if there ever was a civil war in the United States and you had to protect yourself? We would be we would be, biblically speaking, allowed to defend ourselves and fight back, correct?

Yeah. Again, it's the principles in scripture have to do with personal retaliation. But Paul says about the government in Romans 13, the authorities established by God, that the authorities don't bear the sword in vain. So they have authority even to put to death for certain crimes or to defend borders against intruders. Otherwise, you would say, well, if someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night and you're a Christian husband, you say, oh, yeah, my wife's in the bedroom there, if you want to kill her.

The kids are down the hallway there after you kill me. No. What kind of Christian is that? It's one thing if you're you're you're arrested by the government for the gospel and and as as they're being driven off, you've you know, you've you've got a gun and you start shooting everybody in the car. No, we're not called to do that, you know, for the gospel.

We may suffer for following Jesus. But just everyday self-defense, being a soldier in the army to take out ISIS, you know, the snipers that killed an ISIS terrorist before he could slaughter Christian children did a good thing. The policeman who used his gun to stop a violent man from killing his wife in cold blood did a good thing. So it's the same principle there.

These are righteous principles. This is self-defense. And then, you know, hunting is a totally separate thing. There's no prohibition against hunting. Right. But it's it's murder and violence that would be forbidden. You know, unnecessary violence. And it's also personal retaliation that scripture speaks against. So all the rest, no problem with it.

You shouldn't have any issue if the person's responsible person. Thank you as always, Dr. Brown. You're great. You're great. I appreciate it.

My joy to be of help. 866-348-7884. Hey, we had almost all of our phone lines filled with people who have called in within our time of a few weeks that we don't allow the call. So that means we just opened up a bunch of phone lines. I just looked up.

They were filled and now they just emptied. So it's a perfect time to call 866-348-7884. 866-34-TRUTH. So, Alex, you're next. I'll get to you in one moment. Let me reach.

Can I reach over? OK. Yeah. Hang on.

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Don't want to look for the resource offer there. We'll be right back on the other side of the break. Straight to your call.

Hey, friends, Michael Brown here. My delight to serve as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. We are living in such urgent times today, friends, that all of us are in the line of fire. There's a target on your back.

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Get on the line of fire by calling 866 three for truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Dr. Brown, it's great to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to our co-sponsor Trivita for helping us reach so many people around the globe. We go to the phones of Greece. Alex, welcome to the line of fire.

Hey, hi, Mr. Brown, Dr. Brown. It's great to talk to you. Thank you. I had a question about Zachariah 12. Just some stuff I read online. I do hope it's future.

I always stand with Israel and I hope all the enemies get destroyed. But I've read some stuff online of like preterism is very interesting. I don't believe it, but there's some objections to it. Like, for instance, it talks about how in Zachariah 12 when he returns and they look up on him, who they have pierced, but like they'll be stoning false prophets in Israel. And that's kind of like an Old Testament thing they did in modern day.

Where does it say that? In Zachariah 12. I heard Zachariah 12 or 13. You know better than me. In 13, right, right.

Here's the deal. Zachariah 9-14 deals with the first and second comings of the Messiah. So in the 11th chapter, in the 9th chapter it talks about him coming on a donkey, but then ultimately his reign will be from sea to sea. So it's the beginning right up until the end that's prophesied there in Zachariah 9 verses 9 and 10. Then in the 11th chapter there's the imagery of the shepherd being rejected for 30 pieces of silver. So that of course applies to his first coming. Then you have in Zachariah the 12th chapter that you have this picture.

Now first thing it says all the nations will surround Jerusalem and attack it. Has that ever happened in history? No. It's a national repentance of the Jewish people mourning over the Messiah. Has that ever happened in history?

No. It's an exact parallel to Zachariah 14 which says that God will gather all nations against Jerusalem and that he will then come and fight and his feet will touch on the Mount of Olives which will then be split in two. And Acts 1 tells us that just as Jesus left, he'll come back, right?

And where's he going to step down? On the Mount of Olives. Has Jesus returned and stepped out on the Mount of Olives yet? No. Has a time of universal peace come on the earth where the Lord is one and he reigns over the earth?

No. So all these things are future. And honestly, Alex, with all respect to partial preterists, full preterists are heretical. They deny the second coming of Jesus. They deny the future restoration of the dead. They say he's already come.

We're already living in the New Jerusalem. So that's just outright heretical. But partial preterists and their arguments, I've read their attempts to say Zachariah 12 and Zachariah 14 are past and it's the most twisted stuff I've ever seen.

I mean, you have to make every word mean something other than what it means. So when you go on into the 13th chapter, there are some passages there that have to do with the betrayal of the Messiah. It's might the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered. That's Zachariah 13. But it also references a false prophet who's simply exposed for being a false prophet.

So that could be the end of the age. That could be in Messiah's first coming. Either way, you've got the whole scope, Zachariah 9-14 deals with the first coming and the second coming. And sometimes it's dealing with the second coming, sometimes dealing with the first coming. This is common in scripture. You can go to the end, you can go back to the beginning.

But you just ask the simple questions. Has Jerusalem ever been surrounded by the armies of all the nations? No. Has God fought and decimated all those nations? No. Has there been national repentance in Israel? No. Has the Messiah returned and stepped foot on the Mount of Olives as spoken of explicitly?

No. So does their future. And to try to come up with a little argument that already happened is really convoluted. And when I debated a partial preterist, his only answer about this, as I recall, was basically I'm working on that. I'm trying to figure out how Zachariah 12 and 14 have already happened, you know? Because you really have to twist it. Some might say, but look, in John 19, it says, you know, Jesus is pierced. So it says they'd look on him who they pierced would be fulfilled. In other words, he's pierced so that that scripture can be fulfilled. If he's not pierced, they can't look on the pierced one. So it's pierced so that, yes, they can now in the future one day look at that, that scripture is fulfilled. So, yeah, it's an extraordinary stretch.

It's not a stretch. It is misinterpreting the Bible. It's that plain. So we can differ on other points. But certain things, you know, and here's how I test things.

I believe if I have, say, 100 verses that seem to support what I believe, which is why I believe it. Right. And someone comes and says, hey, what do you do with this verse? Like, that's a good question. I don't really know.

I'm going to have to think about that. But I know that the hundred are so clear, they're going to have to hold this one and say, let me think about it until I have more insight. It's another thing, when I'm holding on to a few verses here and someone's got a hundred against me and I've got a twisted turn to make them work, it's like something is wrong there.

And there's so many verses throughout the entire Bible, Old Testament, reinforced by the New, that there is a future purpose for the people of Israel as a people, as a nation that, you know, like Charles Spurgeon said, I don't think God could have made it any more clear in terms of laying out that there is a future purpose for Israel, to paraphrase his words. So hopefully that helps. Yeah, I'm glad for that. Another question? Yeah, go ahead.

Oh, thanks. Regarding like the Catholic Church, I think I like them how they respect Mary and I like to watch exorcist videos, but I don't think, obviously, like yourself, your one testimony out of like millions worldwide was Protestant Christian. They don't really conform to any denomination. So I can't say God only works in the Catholic Church or only their say that's really bad. But do you think like it's like a good idea to be Catholic because they have the Eucharist and there's some early church writings of people saying the bread is actually the flesh of Jesus Christ and the blood is the wine? Like, isn't that something we're missing as Protestants?

Oh, no, absolutely not, in my view. First, the earliest believers were Jewish believers. So I say as a messianic Jew, we go all the way back to that. And you do have a lot of beauty in the early church writings.

You also have error. So here's the question. When Yeshua is at the Last Supper and he says to his disciples, this is my body, when they're eating the bread, right? They knew it wasn't his actual body.

It was what it symbolized. When he said in John 6, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you, all the disciples except for the inner circle left him. And he said, the words I speak to you are spirit in their life, the flesh profits nothing.

He said, what will you do when the Son of Man ascends to heaven? In other words, when I'm not physically here and you can't physically eat my body and drink my blood, then you have to understand I'm talking spiritually. So at the Last Supper, when he sat with them, they were literally having bread and wine, which now symbolized his body and his blood. So wherever the Lord's Supper is being celebrated, we celebrate it joyfully.

Whether it's in a Messianic congregation, if it's a Catholic church with other believers that are there, if it's a Pentecostal church or an Evangelical Reformed church, whatever, if the Lord's Supper is being celebrated and we recognize what it points to, what it represents, that's the spiritual substance. In point of fact, they fully understood at the Last Supper, they were not literally eating his body and drinking his blood. Literally, they knew that because he was there. If they were supposed to do it literally, he should have said, here's my arm, take a bite. I'm going to come to the cross with a cup so you can drink my blood. So out of the gate, they fully understood. It wasn't literal.

So that's, with all respect to my Catholic friends, a strong reason why myself would not be Catholic. Hey, thank you, sir, for the call. I appreciate it.

Can I ask another question or is that too much? No, no, I got to get to others, but bless your thanks. Bye-bye. All right. All right. I figured he was calling from Greece. We'd give a second question, but appreciate that, Alex. Let's go over to Miles in Columbus, Ohio. Welcome to the line of fire. Can you hear me good?

Yeah, I can. Okay, I actually had a question about, so, Romans 11. I understand that, you know, the Jews can be grafted back in, but I always thought that that was what the Bible was meaning when it said that God isn't done with Israel. So is that right or is there another way that God's not done with Israel? Oh, yeah, overwhelmingly there's another way, and that's Paul's whole point.

We all know, he's already said earlier, that there's a remnant that's saved, right? And everyone understands, even those who believe God's finished with Israel, everyone understands that an individual Jew can be saved just like an individual Gentile. But Paul's whole point, if you read Romans 11, 11 right through the end of the chapter, that there was a national rejection of the Messiah. So if their rejection, if their trespass brought salvation to the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion, will their acceptance be? So it's talking about a full inclusion and acceptance. Then he goes on and explains how individual branches can be grafted back on and then says in Romans 11, 25, I don't want you to be ignorant of this mystery, lest you become arrogant.

So the mystery is what? Hardening and part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. So the hardening is a partial hardening. It's not on the whole nation because individual Jews can always be saved.

And it's not for all time. So on the heels of and provoked by the fullness of the Gentiles coming in, Romans 11, 25, hardening in part has happened to Israel, Romans 11, 26. And so in this way, consequentially, all Israel shall be saved.

There will be a national turning, all Israel. And then he goes on to say, as he continues, that this is about the Redeemer coming to Zion and turning away ungodliness from Jacob. Then he says this in verse 28, as far as the Gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake. In other words, the Jewish rejection of the Messiah now brought the Gospel to the Gentiles. As far as the Gospel is concerned, they, who? The non-believing Jews are enemies for your sake.

But as far as election, they are loved because of the fathers. Verse 29, for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. So God called Israel once and for all.

He'll never go back on that. He promised through Abraham's seed the whole world will be blessed. And at the end of the age, there will be a national turning. Jeremiah speaks about it, Jeremiah 31.1. At that time, God will be God of all the clans of Israel. Other passages support that. So yes, sir, there is absolutely a future full restoration of the Jewish people. That's the whole thing that Paul's emphasizing. So we, Romans 9 through 11, all the way through, may concentrate on Romans 11, 11, right up until Romans 11, 33. Thank you for the call.

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May you live with greater wellness. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. At the Line of Fire, we go straight to the phones with Bob in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Welcome to the Line of Fire.

Hey, Dr. Brown. I've been talking to a local Imam about the Koran and the Bible and so forth and Islam and Christianity, and I just wondered, I read the Koran through after 9-11 and I found some pretty horrific stuff in there, but does it not say somewhere in the Koran that you're supposed to slay the infidel wherever you find them? Is that a misquote that I'm thinking about?

No, it's not a misquote at all. But the argument would be, okay, so the Islamic terrorist, the radical Muslim would use that and say that applies to this day, and that's why Hamas did what they did, that's why ISIS does what it does, that's why Al Qaeda does what it does, etc. In other words, they would say, yeah, it's in the Koran and we uphold it until this day. But other Muslims would say, no, no, no, you have to understand that verses were given at different times. Like, we read the book of Joshua and Joshua and the armies of Israel killed the Canaanites, but we know we're not supposed to do that today. In other words, if you don't like your neighbor, you don't drive them out or kill them or something like that.

This was a specific time, a specific purpose with a specific group of people. So the Muslim who's more pacifist in their faith would say, no, that was a specific time when there was actual war, when Mohammed and his armies were fighting against the infidels in actual war. So it applied then, but now we practice religion without coercion.

That would be the argument. And then other radical Muslims would say, no, you're misinterpreting it. It does apply.

So it is in there, for sure. Those verses are definitely there. But the imam might say they only applied to a time of war in Mohammed's day, or if you were in a Muslim country and invaded by unbelievers, then you would fight back and use that verse. But it doesn't apply just to your non-believing neighbor today, your Christian or Jewish or atheist neighbor.

It doesn't apply to them. So you have two different interpretations of it. Do you have James White's book, Dr. James White, about the Quran? No, but I've read a lot about the Quran, from Josh McDowell and other apologists, and you.

Where do you start with these people? Because he tells me, Jesus never read the Bible. And I'm saying, Jesus probably quoted from the Torah a hundred times.

And he says, no, no. He's talking about the New Testament. I said, well, no, it hadn't been written yet. But this guy's like, I know they think the NGO is a book that was given only to Jesus. He had the Gospel.

So the four Gospels we have are just null and void. I don't see, this guy's been a Muslim. He's 65 years old. He's been a Muslim since he was 20.

I'm 76 years old. I've been a Christian since 79. We both have the same starting dates, but he's in his religion, and I'm in my world, belief or whatever.

Where do you start? So just in the simplest way here, when you're dealing with someone who's a religious leader and committed to their faith, they're not going to be the easiest one to win to the Lord. In other words, if you were a Jehovah's Witness and you're knocking on doors in a largely Christian community, you're going to have a hard time convincing the pastor. Maybe it's somebody that's like a nominal member of the church and doesn't really understand the Bible. So the same way with the Imam, that's going to be a much more challenging person to reach.

But I would not get into these arguments. I would deal more with the spiritual side of things. I would ask him, hey, tell me about your relationship with God. Tell me about, do you have fellowship with him? Do you commune with him? Is Allah your Father, your Heavenly Father?

Tell me about that. And ultimately, you know there's paradise and there's judgment. Say, are you trying to be a serious Muslim and commit it?

You uphold the five pillars of Islam and you made the Hajj and you do all these things. So are you sure of eternal life? Are you certain that if you die, you'll be with Allah forever?

If he's honest, he'll tell you no. He may even say it's 50-50 or no one could know. And you could say, well, I know. I know where I'm going.

I'm absolutely sure. I have this deep assurance of faith. I know my sins are forgiven. So I would talk to him more about, ask him questions about his relationship with God and pray that God would reveal the spiritual bankruptcy that's there, the spiritual emptiness that's there, convict him of his sin and show him the path to life. And look, God deals with many Muslims, reveals himself in dreams and that gets them thinking and then from there they go and hear the Gospel the rest of the way.

So may the Lord use you. I appreciate your heart to reach him and the education you've been going through. But I'd approach it, especially someone that's an imam, a serious leader, I'd approach it in a very different way, more the spiritual side of things and getting him to recognize something's missing. He's lived all these years and if he were to die tonight, he doesn't know where he's going for sure and it could be into hell.

And that's just a probe with him. And just talk about fellowship, communion with God, intimacy with God, things that will be foreign to him as a Muslim. Hey, thank you for the call. I appreciate it. Let's go over to Rick in Franklin Square, not far from where I went to high school. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. I wanted to ask you about Revelation 21, 3. It says, Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men. And I wanted to ask you, in eternity, are Christians going to be walking in the midst of the three persons of the Trinity? Are we going to see God the Father? Of course, we're going to see Jesus, but are we going to see God the Father and the Holy Spirit, the three persons of eternity?

I guess you could use that term, three persons of eternity, the Holy Trinity. Are they physically going to be among us? OK, a wonderful question. So let's just take a look. Let's keep reading. OK, and let's go into Revelation Chapter 22.

OK, Revelation Chapter 22. And let's see. And OK, hang on. No, we'll back up. We'll back up into into 21. And let's just let's see here what's being described.

OK, so we have, you know, who gets in, who doesn't get in. And then you've got the the New Jerusalem being described. Now it's further measured out here. So it seems, you know, all the indication is is actually going to be a temple. Right. You're not going to need a physical temple because it's the Lord is is the temple himself.

So it would seem that there's going to be that that proximity. Right. And the tabernacle.

Right. Now, now we keep reading verse one of chapter 22. Now, the angel showed me the river of the water of life, brightest crystal flowing from the throne of God and of the lamb. So there's one throne of God and of the lamb. Also in Revelation, it seemed that you had two thrones. But now it speaks of one throne, the throne of God and of the lamb through the middle of the street of the city, also on either side of the river of life.

The tree of life was called fruits, et cetera. First, verse three, no longer will there be anything to curse, but the throne of God and of the lamb will be in it and his servants will worship him. They will see his face and his name will be on their foreheads. So you could deduce from that that we will see one God forever at the throne of God.

OK. But what about the three persons of the Trinity? Are we going to see the three persons? Like in Genesis 18, verse two, when Abraham saw the three angels.

Right. Well, the three angels, that's God and two angels. That's Yahweh and two angels. It's not it's not Father, Son and Spirit there. It's Yahweh and two angels in the account, as you read through. Read up to Genesis 19, one where Yahweh, the end of 18, stays and talks with Abraham. And then the two angels go to Sodom in Chapter 19, verse one. But it says here by God and the lamb, they'll see his face, not faces.

So it could be that as we meet God in eternity, we just meet him as he is as one God, as opposed to seeing Father, Son and Spirit separately. Certainly we're going to see Jesus, but are we going to see the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit? It doesn't say.

It doesn't say. Okay, because this is something that we can consider regarding eternity and what, you know, are the three persons going to be among the Christian people? Well, God is going to be there. Emmanuel, God with us, perhaps that is speaking of the three persons of the Trinity.

I'd have to look into that. Here's the point I'm trying to make. God will be there in all of his fullness. Not partially, but in all of his fullness. God is Father, Son and Spirit and he has revealed himself as such to us for the purpose of redemption. But what does it say in 1 Corinthians 15? That when everything has been put under the Son's feet, the Son will submit himself to the Father. God may be all in all. In other words, the final manifestation of God that we see may be one God. And you say we see Jesus, yes, but in seeing Jesus we could see the one God, but he says, if you see me, you've seen the Father.

Because again, I want to emphasize this, Revelation 22, that they, it says God and the Lamb, and they will see his face, not their faces, but his face. One God, one face, the fullness of Father, Son and Spirit. So it could well be, now some say we'll only see Jesus and through Jesus that's how the Father and Spirit are revealed. Some believe we'll see Father, Son and Spirit in three separate entities of the fullness of who God is. But others would suggest that we just see God as one as he is, he is one God. And in that one God is the fullness of the Father and the Son and the Spirit. So there's no separation there. This is the most explicit passage. It's visionary, I understand, it's the book of Revelation. But this is the most explicit passage that makes me wonder, maybe we just see God as one. Father, Son and Spirit as one.

Great question. We'll be back with you to start the week together. In the meantime, make sure you get in my Frontline newsletter. Sign up at We'll be right back.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-02-10 06:49:40 / 2024-02-10 07:10:38 / 21

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