When a Nazi Rally Filled Madison Square Garden

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Did you know about the Nazi rally that filled Madison Square Garden in New York City in 1939? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Friends, to The Line of Fire on this Thursday, this is one of these must-listen-to-much-watch broadcasts. If you're watching on YouTube, click thumbs up and then go ahead and share this. If you're watching on Facebook, click like and go ahead and share. If you're listening on podcast, share it with your friend. If you're listening live on radio, call or text to your friends to tune in.

This is a much-watch broadcast. Here's the long and short of it. We cannot take for granted America's support for Israel. We cannot take for granted America being a safe place for the Jewish people. It's been wonderful to see America standing with Israel. That does not mean standing against the Palestinians or being unsympathetic to the needs of the Palestinians.

It does not mean that, but it means not demonizing Israel as a nation and recognizing Israel's right to defend itself and standing with Israel. It is wonderful that that has happened. It is wonderful that there are tens of millions of American Christians who continue to stand with Israel. It is wonderful that America is a place where Jews can freely get education, can freely work jobs, can freely succeed, and society can freely practice their religion. We cannot take that for granted as if it will always be here.

In fact, it has not always been here. There are some chilling moments in American history, parallel with some chilling statements being made even in this day that should give us pause for thought. If you know me, if you've listened to me, read me, watched me over the years, you know I'm not one of these chicken little, the sky is falling kind of people. I'm not a fear monger, but I am a realist.

I am an absolute realist. It is not written anywhere in Scripture that America will always be a haven for the Jewish people. It is not written anywhere in Scripture that America will not go the way of Nazi Germany, nor is it written anywhere in Scripture that Germany would not go the way it went under the Nazis. So, I'm just speaking truthfully, clearly, and prayerfully, feeling this burden once again to sound an alarm, a righteous alarm. God's word is clear. When the watchman sees the sword coming, you can be the pastor of a local church, you can be a parent in your home, you can be a young person in your school, you can be a business leader, and you can be a watchman. You see danger coming, you see trouble coming, you see something's wrong. If you don't speak out, then the blood of the people is on your hands, those that you could have warned. So, I'm warning, I'm urging especially followers of Jesus because it's going to come down to us.

This is where the rubber is going to meet the road. We may have different theological views about Israel. We may have different interpretations about prophecy of those followers of Jesus. We agree that salvation is only through Jesus Yeshua, for both Jew and Gentile. There's not a separate covenant that Jewish people have outside of Jesus the Messiah. A Jew who rejects Yeshua is the same as a Gentile who rejects Jesus, both lost without redemption because mercy and atonement have been spurned. So, there's no compromise or debate about that in terms of my position. What I am saying is, if you allow a seed of anti-Semitism, of Jew hatred into your heart, if you begin to demonize Israel as a nation, and you are a follower of Jesus, you are the last bastion of hope. You are the only reason or the principal reason that the nation does not turn in an even more dangerous direction.

And I'm going to play some footage for you. I only saw this recently myself, but it's shocking. It's shocking. And remember, even as I speak, that for the last few years, those crimes considered hate crimes in America, so specific crimes against people because of their race, because of their ethnicity, because of their skin color, or now we'd also include that because of sexual orientation or gender identification. So, it's all these different categories under hate speech or hate crimes. But the highest incidents of hate crimes in America for several years now have been against Jews, in particular physical attacks on Jews, because they are Jews.

Just go and look at it. This is not really something that's debated. And we've seen what's on college and university campuses.

And this has been growing for years, a demonizing of Israel as a whole. Now, let's go back in history. The United States has formed.

George Washington is the first president. He's getting letters of congratulation and appreciation from all different groups of Americans. And now he's speaking in different places. And I want you to hear this.

I want to start with some good news, and then I'm going to get to the chilling, heavy, intense stuff. So, in 1790, George Washington visits Rhode Island to acknowledge the state's recent ratification of the Constitution and promote passage of the Bill of Rights, the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. So, he's met by a delegation of citizens.

They read messages of welcome. And one of those who welcomed Washington was Moses Sextus, the warden of Turo's synagogue in Newport. And in his welcome, Sextus gave thanks to the Ancient of Days, the great preserver of men, that the Jews previously deprived of the invaluable rights of free citizens on account of their religion, now lived under a government which to bigotry, this is the words of the sextant of the synagogue, or excuse me, the warden of the synagogue, which to bigotry gives no sanction to persecution, no assistance. So, in his letter to the synagogue responding to Sextus' welcome, Washington used some of Sextus' own words. So, this is the letter from George Washington to Moses Sextus, the warden of the synagogue there in Turo in Rhode Island, assuring him of what America would be.

And he says this, Gentlemen, while I receive with much satisfaction your address replete with expressions of esteem, I rejoice in the opportunity of assuring you that I shall always retain grateful remembrance of the cordial welcome I experienced at my visit to Newport from all classes of citizens. The reflection on the days of difficulty and danger which are past is rendered the more sweet from a consciousness that they are succeeded by days of uncommon prosperity and security. President Washington said, If we have wisdom to make the best use of the advantages with which we are now favored, we cannot fail, under the just administration of a good government, to become a great and happy people. The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy, a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more than toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for happily the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support. Would it be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my administration and fervent wishes for my felicity. May the children of the stock of Abraham, this is President Washington, 1790, may the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants, while everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid quoting from Micah 4.

May the Father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness upon our paths and make us all in our several vocations useful here and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy. That was President Washington. Now let's fast forward to 1939. This is a rally, Madison Square Garden, February 20th, 20,000 people. Not the only Nazi rally that took place in America. Mayor LaGuardia thought the whole thing was kooky. Hey, go ahead and let it happen to expose everybody to who these kooks really are.

I am going to take you into some footage recently released a few years back in a short documentary from these eerie moments. I want you to hear what is being said. First, the speaker Fritz Buhl. Let me paint the picture first.

People are marching in. You have the Heil Hitler salutes. You have behind the podium on the giant platform there at Madison Square Garden a giant image of George Washington.

That is in the middle. So these are patriots. These are patriots, American patriots and Nazis at the same time. Anti-Jewish, dangerous Jews cannot be in power. This is a nation that should have Christian white leadership.

Where have you heard that before? So, George Washington is behind the speaker and then on either side you have Nazi imagery. Let us take you into this eerie moment from 1939. I pledge undivided allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the republic for all. All right, we go right back now into the speech which gets interrupted when a protester comes running on the stage.

But listen to what the speaker has to say. Ladies and gentlemen, fellow Americans, American patriots, I'm sure I do not come before you tonight as a complete stranger. You all have heard of me, though the Jewish-controlled press, as a creature and a long tail. We with American ideals demand that our government shall be returned to the American people. If you ask what we are actively fighting for under our charter, first, a social just, white, gentle, old United States.

Second, gentle controlled labor union, free from Jewish Moscow direct domination. Yes, that's when a Jewish man who was allowed to be there ran onto the stage. They start to beat him. You see as he is being pulled off the stage, as the footage continues, an anguished look on his face begins to pull his pants off. Subsequently, when he appeared before the judge, the judge said you could have hurt people, lives could have been risked by what you did.

He wasn't armed or anything like that. He said, I kind of lost my head. What about all the lives that are going to be lost under the Nazis? I said Christian-controlled. The speaker said Gentile, right? Gentile, white, controlled, no Jewish presence, no Jewish power. Macau celebrates.

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Call 1-800-771-5584, 1-800-771-5584, or online at trivita.com. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It is clearly Jewish Thursday, Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us today on the broadcast. So, in the last segment, I played some clips from a Nazi rally, a packed out Madison Square Garden in 1939, and the thing that's so striking is about American ideals. And you've got the idea of Jews, that's communists, that's Moscow, they're controlling the country. Jews already in 1939, labor unions, the press, controlled by the Jews. You have to remember around this same period of time, pre-World War II, post-World War II, you had schools like Harvard that limited the amount of Jews that were allowed in.

There were quotas, okay? And whatever prestige and power Jews may have in American society today, it was a tiny fraction of that back then. And these were mainly new immigrants that had come over to America for the most part, fleeing from anti-Semitism in countries like Russia in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

And many just working their way up the economic ladder little by little. But already it's the Jewish-controlled press, already the Jewish-controlled labor unions, already the Jews, the communists, Moscow, all in association to rob America of its real rights and its real roots, which are then Gentile-slash-Christian and white, and out with the Jews, and this is an American ideal. Now, you say, but nobody was listening.

They were! Madison Square Garden was packed, and there were rallies in other parts of America, and a lot of these sympathies are just buried more deeply. And now with Israel under attack and Israel retaliating, those sympathies begin to rise. And there is a Christian nationalism which is quite benign, which simply says we love Jesus and we love our nation, and we believe we have many beautiful Judeo-Christian roots that should be cultivated for the good of the nation, and that's benign, and I can say amen to that.

When someone referred to me on the air last week as a soft Christian nationalist, that didn't offend me at all in context of what I believe and what I've stated. There is a Christian nationalism that is absolutely dangerous that I denounce and deplore, which says that America must be governed by Christians who will then subjugate everyone to that Christian rule, or who will treat harshly those who do not fit under that Christian rule, or who will only have in its movement Christians who share a certain worldview, and conservative Jews and others cannot be part of that movement. That is something I denounce and deplore, but it is growing.

It is growing. And just like you have the radical elements of the black Hebrew Israelite movement that despise Jews and say that Jews like me are not really Jews, of course it doesn't hurt me, it hurts them, I feel bad for them and they're saying that, and you have these radical elements cultivating Jew hatred, white supremacists, black supremacists, and many many others, many others where it's been latent, you're going to see it continue to rise. What's the bulwark?

What's going to push back against it? Followers of Jesus. Yes, you have conservative Jewish voices like a Ben Shapiro or a Dennis Prager or others and they have their influence, and David Horowitz and others, some of them are religious, some of them are irreligious, they have their influence, that's good and that's positive. And you have just your average American who says, hey, I'm not going to give place to this hatred, I'm not going to give hatred to place to bigotry against blacks like we had in our society before, or bigotry against Jews like we've had or had in Europe and things like that, other parts of the world, I'm not going to give place to that.

Yeah, thank God for that. But the ultimate bulwark is going to be followers of Jesus who say no, we recognize God's calling on Israel, we recognize that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable, we recognize that what God has promised he will bring to pass and that it doesn't mean we sanction everything Israel does, it doesn't mean that we whitewash Jewish sins where they exist, it doesn't mean that at all, but it means that we recognize that God has purposes still for the Jewish people and that Satan wants to wipe them out and that Satan is ultimately the one behind this insidious anti-Semitism and Jew hatred. So, you have voices like Nick Fuentes, I mean I played a clip from the other day, I hate to even do it again, but I'll just repeat it for the record and so you can see the similar sentiments, but even more extreme than what the Nazi leader said. And by the way, he's in his full Nazi outfit speaking in the clips that we heard in the last segment, those watching it saw it for yourselves. And yeah, that music, the chilling music in the background, that was added by the producer of the short film, a ten minute long film clip that I saw.

So, that chilling music soundtrack was added, of course, I should have mentioned that. But in any case, I mean, there's just these other vile quotes from Nick, you know, and he's on a panel with a bunch of African-American hosts and explaining to them how the Holocaust didn't happen as was explained and going into detail and now he's going to enlighten them as to what really happened. And then there's another clip where he's saying, hey, ironically, if a black man came into his neighborhood, he said, I saw some neighbor, the guy's throwing wrappers out of his, you know, junk, garbage, you know, wrappers and things, just throwing them out of his car in his neighborhood. He said, if that's my neighborhood, kill him. He said, Hitler's there, we kill him together.

It's just, it's so vile. But remember, he's doing this in the name of Jesus. He's doing this as an alleged Christian and proclaiming Christ as King in the midst of the sickness and madness and whether his following is 20,000 people or 20 people, that's 20 or 20,000 too people. And my thought is not, not he himself, but others like him have following much more than that.

So let's listen to what he says and see how it goes even further than what the Nazi speaker was saying in Madison Square Garden in 1939. There is an occult element at the high levels of society and specifically among the Jews. So many of the people that are perpetrating the lies and the destruction on the country, they are evildoers. They are people that worship false gods.

They are people that practice magic or rituals or whatever. And more than anything, those people need to be, when we take power, they need to be given the death penalty straight up. And I'm far more concerned about that kind of about even non-white people or mass migration. These people that are communing with demons and engaging in this sort of witchcraft and stuff, and these people that are suppressing the name Christ and suppressing Christianity, they must be absolutely annihilated when we take power. This is God's country. This is Jesus's country. This is not the domain of atheists or devil worshipers or perfidious Jews. This is Christ's country.

All right. So you heard what's being said there. You heard the rhetoric. And even if, even if there were 10 minutes of comments that slightly bounce up, that's just a hypothetical myth.

It doesn't matter. That ridiculous, horrific, unbiblical, ungodly, despicable type of rhetoric is not only evil in itself, but it will provoke people, especially unstable people to do evil things. That's why we've got to be so responsible with the words that we speak. The greater the audience we have, the more responsible we need to be. So I am simply saying, as a watchman on the wall, things are worse here in America than you might realize. And if you didn't hear recent surveys done, solid academic surveys with proven records in terms of how they get their data, 51% of young Americans said that they supported Hamas versus Israel, even to the point of saying that Israel should be ended and given over to Hamas. You say, well, they'll grow out.

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. First, the fact that it's 51% instead of one half of 1% is a massive concern. How did that happen? By what influence? And why, why are they just going to grow out of it? How are they suddenly going to grow out of it if they're subject to the same propaganda, the same indoctrination, the same lies, the same falsehoods, the same misperceptions?

How are they going to grow out of it? Just it will happen. No, it won't just happen.

And even if half grew out of it, can you imagine 25% of American adults holding those viewpoints? And I don't know what the numbers are for older adults, but friends, the cancer is here. The cancer is spreading.

I've been sounding alarm about it for over 30 years and I'm shouting out even more loudly today. My brothers and sisters in Jesus, you are the wall to stop this from spreading through America. You, as the salt of the earth and the light of the world, as truth tellers, yes, you can stand up for persecuted people around the world, including Palestinian Christians. Yes, you can show solidarity with the people of Gaza. You can even criticize the government of Israel, the fair criticism. You can do all of that if you must at the same time stand with Israel and the Jewish people and make it known that you do.

Michael Brown here, friends, with a very, very sober announcement. We're living in different days. We're living in different times. The battle has come to us and like it or not, every single one of us, we are in the line of fire today. And friends, there is an all out war today against the Jewish people.

There is an all out war like there was before the Holocaust to annihilate and destroy Jewish people. And God has positioned us with the line of fire on the front lines to do two things that are very, very critical. One, to speak the truth about Israel, to speak the truth about antisemitism, to push back against the destructive lies, to push back against false theologies, to stand strong and tall and say, this is what the word says and this is what reality is. And then with that friends, we also reach out to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It is a key role that we play. We are equipping Jewish evangelists around the world. We are equipping the church to share the good news. We are directly involved in winning Jewish people to Jesus.

So we are fighting on these two critically important fronts in unique ways. And I want to call on each of you to stand with me, stand with our support team, become a torchbearer today. These are urgent days and you can make a difference.

Go to askdrbrown.org, askdrbrown.org. Click on donate monthly support, $1 a day or more. You become a torchbearer, a monthly supporter. Together we're making a difference. We will pour into you immediately get two free books that will bless you.

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Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

Michael Brown here. I'm going to speak to you for a moment more from the heart and then I'm going to respond to some questions and comments that were posted on Twitter for me to get to on today's show, Twitter Now X. From the heart, I'm urging you to stand with me as we are on the front lines and as we are implementing some major new programs for the new year to equip the church, to strengthen the body, to help leaders, to push back against the cultural darkness, to push back against anti-Semitism, to reach out to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. We are mobilizing on many, many fronts and in fact, at the beginning of the new year, I'm going to share even more of the exciting news with you. If you don't get our emails, sign up today for our Frontline Newsletter which we will start sending out in January.

Once a month, trust me, you'll look forward to getting it. You'll be edified, you'll be equipped, you'll be helped, you'll be strengthened, you'll be inspired, you'll be challenged, you'll be informed. Frontline Newsletter. Just that kind of holy injection of life.

Breathing it in and taking it in and reading it and having it to go back to absolutely free. So if you're not getting my emails, go now to AskDrBrown.org. AskDrBrown.org.

Go there now and sign up for the emails. That's the first thing. Second thing, we need your support. I have been told by major ministry leaders that they know of no ministry that has the impact and the reach that we have with the small budget that we have.

You would be shocked compared to other ministries how small the budget is and by God's grace, we stretch, we run, our whole team. You know I do, our whole team does. We go for it.

We are frugal but we need your help now because I'm not afraid to shout out. I'm not afraid to take the heat. I'm not afraid to go into the hornet's nest. I'm called to do it as your voice from all sanity and spiritual clarity. Not only so, I'm called to help you take your stand wherever you are. Whatever community you're in, whatever sphere of influence you have, I'm here to help you and strengthen you and tell you you're not crazy. What you feel is right and what you feel is true.

You're not crazy. So together, friends, we're making a difference. I know you get all kinds of appeals. You get letters from us at the end of the year saying, stand with us, but I'm asking you to join our support team today, especially if we've been a blessing to you. Is it worth a dollar a day or more to you? It's an honest question. Is it worth a dollar a day to you to help us reach more people? Is what we're doing of that value to you? And you say, oh, it's like worth infinite amount to me, but money's tight.

Understood. Can you come up with a dollar a day or two dollars a day? Join our support team.

Become a torchbearer. Some can easily give more than that. Some can give out of your business. Some can give out of your church budget. Go to AskDrBrown.org.

AskDrBrown.org. Click on donate monthly support. Donate monthly support and join our support team. When you do, not only do you get two free books immediately that will bless you, stir you, equip you, inform you, help you. You get access to scores of hours of classes that other people have to pay for to take. You get to take them as many times as you want for free. You get access to exclusive video content beyond the thousands of hours of content that we already provide. You get access to additional exclusive video content. You get a 15% discount in our online bookstore. If you come to Israel with us, you get $300 off a ticket on the trip. We pour into you every month with a new audio message and an insider newsletter every single month.

You get a lot and your investment, a dollar a day, $5 a day, whatever you're able to do. Stand with us. Become a torchbearer today. Let's get the good news that we just had a surge in our torchbearers because as we do, 100% of that money goes back out. Immediately we get on more stations. Immediately we produce more resources. Immediately we send out more free material.

Immediately we have the ability to help more people. So I'm taking a few minutes because this is urgent stuff. It's not about me. It's not about you. It's about the work of God. It's about the kingdom of God. It's about the Jewish people.

It's about souls. So let's stand together. You know what we're doing fits in a very, very narrow category. There are not many that are called to do what we're doing. That means that we need many to stand with us to help us do it even more effectively.

Ask drbrown.org. Click on donate monthly support. I asked folks on Twitter to let me know, or on X, where they differ with me in terms of views on Israel or the war in Gaza and things like that. So Harold said this, you're on point, but I have a problem when you were able to call out black and white supremacy and not Jewish supremacy.

Your silence on Jews and entertainment industry that forced rappers to talk about murder in their songs, which in turn destroy the black community is alarming. Thank you. Thank you first for your, your, your agreement and your candor. I love that. I love that.

Thank you. Okay. Number one, when I call out black supremacy, white supremacy, it's normally in the context of Jew hatred, right? That I, that I talk about how black supremacists and white supremacists both hate Jews.

So that wouldn't be the same. Would it when it comes to Jewish supremacy, that's, that's the first thing. The second thing is when you reference my silence on Jews in the entertainment industry that force rappers to talk about murder in their songs, which in turn destroy the black community. I have talked about the destructive lyrics in my book, the power of music, where I look at hip hop and rap. I do talk about the destructive content of some of the lyrics and the effect, but here's where you need to help me. Okay. This is not, I'm, I'm not just using empty words here.

This is a genuine request. And, and, and to my, my black brothers and sisters who are listening, who are watching, help me here because I'm not aware of how there are Jews who are forcing rappers to talk about these things. I'm simply not aware of it. If you've heard nothing from me about it, it's because I'm not aware of that. You say, how can you not be aware?

I'm sorry. I'm not aware. So either I'm not aware because it's not real or it's not aware because I'm ignorant of it.

One of the two. So, uh, as, as you hear this on the broadcast, Harold, uh, feel free to reply there via X or feel free to write to our ministry as drbrown.org. I'm not taking calls today. Otherwise you could call in, uh, and, and to my friends who are watching, listening that say, dr Brown, how come you don't know this? Okay. Then enlighten me. This is not, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm going to say, go ahead and enlighten me. Go ahead.

Sell me the Brooklyn bridge. No, no, no, I'm not saying that. Why are you saying that? Based on what information based on what factual information. So I'm silent about it because I'm unaware of it.

All right. Now that being said, I've, I've said for many, many years that the Jews are like everybody else except more so. And because we have been called by God to be world changers. Remember what Paul wrote in Romans 11, 28 and 29 about the calling of the Jewish people. They said the gifts and the calling are irrevocable. So not just a calling to be light of the world and to make the knowledge of God known and to raise a high moral standard, not just that calling, but gifts, gifts that have been given to the Jewish people so that Jews have a disproportionate influence and impact on the world. Right?

So that's for good or for bad. So who were some of the most influential Jews of the last 150, 200 years? Well, Albert Einstein would be one. Karl Marx would be another. Sigmund Freud would be another. Arguably the influence of Marx has been absolutely disastrous. The influence of Freud has been largely negative and many destructive psychological psychiatric theories would derive from Freud.

Obviously Einstein an exceptional genius. But you think, or think of, you know, the shock jocks like, like Howard Stern, for example, right? Or a key sexual anarchist in Germany being German, you know, in the pre-World War II days, being German, excuse me, being Jewish in Germany. So I've talked about this or the liberal Jewish financier George Soros and the tremendous impact he has politically and socially. So I've talked about the negative influence that we can have as Jews along with the positive influence that we can have as Jews. And the same thing within the land of Israel. I've bemoaned the moral standards of many in Israel in terms of when it comes to abortion or LGBTQ activism or things like that. So I'm free to speak of those things. I'm free to speak of sins of my people. That's not an issue to me.

But this specific thing I'm not aware of. So, again, I'm not being sarcastic. Let me know why you feel that way.

Let me know why you feel that rappers are being forced to do this. Maybe you stated it slightly too strongly, but maybe you mean it exactly like that. Let's see. Morning Mountain, since you're not a dispensationalist, does the theory of the seven-year tribulation play a part, if any, in your eschatological understanding? If not, is Jacob's trouble a simple reference to an unknown duration of persecution of the Jewish people coming in the man of sin?

Yeah, thanks for the question. So it is so ridiculous that the moment I explain my views on Israel, I'm automatically called a dispensationalist, which I'm not. And I could quite often quote on the air the great teaching of Charles Spurgeon on Israel.

He's not a dispensationalist. Or J.C. Ryle or other Scottish Presbyterian leaders. So Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian leaders from England, from Scotland in the 1800s. Great visionaries in terms of God's purposes for Israel. And they were absolutely not dispensationalists. You go back to the Puritans like John Owen and Robert Layton and Samuel Rutherford and quote their words, their amazing words, with future vision for Israel's restoration. Some seeing the physical restoration, then the spiritual restoration.

Following that, all of them seeing the spiritual restoration that I'm referencing. None of them were dispensationalists. Many of them lived before there was such a thing as dispensationalism. I could even take you back to the early centuries of the church. Some leaders that in certain ways would hold to what we call replacement theology in point of fact, they did speak about a future restoration of the Jewish people as well.

So I'm not a dispensationalist. And I hold to the future restoration of the Jewish people spiritually and to the present day restoration to the physical land. So as to your specific question, I don't know that there'll be a specific seven year period of tribulation. There could well be, but it's a seven year period of tribulation, whether the whole church age is a period of tribulation that culminates in an intensifying at the end. Whatever it is, we'll be here to the end. So in that sense, I am post-trib, be it a seven year tribulation period or be it a protracted period.

So seven years could be or they could just be a figure of an intensive period of time. As for Jacob's trouble in Jeremiah 30, it's first application is clearly to the Babylonian exile. And then it repeats itself in different ways through history, the Holocaust being the most recent part of example of it.

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All right, one more segment here on the Line of Fire. I'm thoroughly pleased. There's Michael Brown, delighted to be with you, millions, is it a million and a half, millions by now, podcasts to listen to and endless radio stations to choose from and endless YouTube channels to watch. I'm blessed that you've taken time to be with me today. Thanks for giving me your time.

Trust me, I take these minutes so seriously. I want them to count. I want them to count in your life and making an eternal impact. When I asked on X slash Twitter for folks who disagreed with me and my views on Israel or the war in Gaza, Cedric responded, and thank you, sir, for doing this. The modern secular state of Israel isn't Bible Israel. Israel continues in the Church of Christ.

Christians, both Jews and Gentiles, are the true Joseon people. Okay, when it comes to chosen for eternal salvation, you're 100% right. Jews and Gentiles in Jesus are chosen for eternal salvation and no one outside of that.

Outside of Jesus, Yeshua, there is no salvation. At the same time, the word chosen elect is used explicitly by Paul in Romans 11, 28, and 29 when he says those who are currently enemies of the gospel for your sake, meaning that their rejection of the gospel has brought it to you Gentiles. This is what Paul is writing in Romans 11, 28, while they are now enemies. On the other hand, they are loved by God because of the patriarchs for the gifts and calling.

Now that word calling is election. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. So there is still a calling on the nation, the Jewish people as a whole, that's irrevocable. Otherwise God is a liar. Otherwise God cannot be trusted.

Now here's what's important. Cedric, I encourage you to go to Romans 11. Paul asks, is God through with Israel?

Now here's what's interesting. In Romans, Paul never uses the word Israel except in chapters 9-11. So he's talking about the nation as a whole, the nation as a whole. He explains that there is a remnant within Israel, Romans 9-6, not all Israel is Israel. There is a remnant within Israel. That's the true Israel, the spiritual Israel, the Israel and right relationship with God and that group of people joined with Gentiles that makes up the ecclesia, the church, the body of Christ, the body of Messiah. But then Paul continues using Israel over and over and over. Just keep reading, speaking of the nation as a whole, the nation as a whole, the nation as a whole. That's how he starts Romans 9 and explains the promises still remain to them, to the Israel after the flesh.

Just read it. There's are, not word, there's are the promises, the divine election remains for them. So just like in Old Testament times they were chosen as a nation but that did not mean everyone within the nation was saved. They were chosen for service, that choosing remains. Chosen for a purpose, that choosing remains. Otherwise God is a liar. Then there are those chosen to eternal salvation in Jesus.

Alright? So he says, does that mean there are two different chosen people? Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, according to scripture, yeah.

What's so impossible about that? The Jewish nation chosen for service for a particular purpose and those within that nation and Gentiles who are followers of Jesus are chosen in him for eternal salvation. This is what scripture says. I just accept what the Bible says. It doesn't matter if it fits in a nice little saying or not, I just accept what scripture says and I hope as I go on with this that you'll see it. So Paul then asked in Romans 11 after making clear that he's talking about Israel as a whole, Israel as a whole, the Israel that rejects the Messiah. He said it over and over. So there's the remnant within Israel, the Israel within Israel, right? The Jewish believers like Paul, like me, and then there's nation as a whole, nation as a whole, nation as a whole.

Alright? So here's what he says. Is God finished with Israel?

No, no, he's not. There's always a remnant chosen by grace, that's Israel within Israel. But then he goes on, has Israel fallen so as to stumble, has stumbled so as to fall beyond recovery. So when you get to the 11th chapter, beginning 11th verse, Paul explains, I'm writing to you Gentiles.

Why? Because I want you to provoke Israel to envy. I'm writing to you Gentiles because I want to provoke, I want you through relationship with the Lord to provoke Israel to envy. Gentile Christians are not called Israel. They're called to provoke Israel to jealousy.

In the same way, Romans 11 25, hardness in part has come upon who? Israel. Hardness is on Israel while the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That's not Israel. The fullness of the Gentiles is coming in while hardness is over Israel.

Then on the heels of and provoked by the fullness of the Gentiles coming in, all Israel will be saved. Who's he talking about? Jacob. Keep reading. He's talking about Jacob. He's talking about non-believers.

That's Israel to whom the promises still remain. So that's the first thing. And Paul's explicit.

He's as explicit as could be. So I encourage you just to go through Romans 9, 10, 11 again. If you don't have my book, Our Hands Are Staying with Blood.

I wish I could just press a button and hand it to you. If you don't have my book, Our Hands Are Staying with Blood, I really encourage you to read it and take a look at it. Our Hands Are Staying with Blood. I have whole chapters where I go through verse by verse these relevant passages and say, what are they saying?

What are they saying? But let's look again through fresh eyes. Make sure you get the 2019 edition if you are interested in the book. Okay. What about modern Israel? The secular state of Israel is not Bible Israel. Well, do we recognize that through Bible times the nation of Israel was bad more than it was good? Was worshiping idols more than it was worshiping God?

Over all history, right? You had the good kings. You had the Davids and then Solomon.

Then that became a mixture. You had Hezekiah. You had Asa. You had Josiah. But otherwise, you had Jehoshaphat. But otherwise, there was a lot of apostasy.

So it's not like Israel and Old Testament was super godly and Israel today is super worldly. No, you had a mixture back then. You have a mixture today. That's number one. Number two, my simple little syllogism here. I've said it over and over again. Let's try it once more. And I say try it once more because many of you new listeners who just haven't heard me say it.

So let me do it once more. When God curses, no one can bless. We know that scripturally. You look at the curses of Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 28. When God cursed the nation of Israel, no one could bless. They did not have the power to bless themselves. They could not go to some other deity to get blessing. They could not go to some other nation to get blessing. No, when God curses, no one can bless. Conversely, when he blesses, no one can curse. That's the scripture.

Would you agree? Okay. I have another example. When God sets an open door before someone, what does Jesus say? I said an open door before you that no one can shut. When he opens a door, no one can shut it. No demon, no devil, no earthly power, no one can shut it. If God opens a door, no one can shut it. Conversely, if he closes a door, no one can open it.

You can hire the world's greatest PR agency. You can have all the armies of the world behind you. If God closes a door, no one can open it.

Would you agree? Okay. When God says to the Jewish people, I will scatter you in my wrath. I will scatter you in my judgment. It's Old Testament. It's New Testament.

Jesus refers to it in Luke 21 as well. I will scatter you in my wrath. I will scatter you in judgment because you're unbelief, because you're rejection of Moses, the prophets, the Messiah. I will scatter you in judgment. If God scatters, no one can regather. The Jewish people can't say, well, he scattered us.

Well, we gathered them. Where's the power of the curse? Where's the power of the judgment? If the United Nations could simply say, oh, well, we'll recognize Israel, or other nations could say, well, we'll restore Israel, then the scattering, the judgment would have no power. Human beings could overrule God.

Come on, let's just be consistent, all right? If God regathers, no one can scatter. So who, pray tell, regather the Jewish people back to the land? Well, they're not real Jews. Well, then we don't even have a discussion here.

There's not even a discussion to have. Those who recognize our Jewish heritage, and bear in mind, the large percentage of Jews in Israel, from the Middle East, and from the surrounding areas, that were not white European. Let's not forget them that have been there, in some cases, for three, four thousand years, living in the same region. So who regathered them?

How did it happen? And what do we do with prophetic scriptures that have not yet been fulfilled, like Zechariah 12, and Zechariah 14, that say at the end of the age, before Jesus comes and puts his feet down on the Mount of Olives, as Acts 1 said he would? What do we do with the fact that those passages speak of the nations of the world coming together to attack a Jewish Jerusalem? How do you have a Jewish Jerusalem, unless the Jewish people are brought back? And, based on how many Christians read Zechariah 12, where there's national repentance in the Jewish people, and Jerusalem turning to the Messiah and recognizing he's the one we pierced, he's the one that we rejected, then it's speaking of a nation still in unbelief. It's not a saved nation yet, and they come to faith in conjunction with the return of the Lord, and recognizing him, and welcoming him back. And remember in Acts 3, Peter said that the Lord must remain in heaven until the time of restoration of all things as spoken by the prophets. The Greek word restoration, the noun, if you go to the verb, the verb is often used in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible for bringing the Jewish people back to the land. So very simply, the God who scattered us is the God who restored us.

Why? Not because of our goodness, but because of his goodness. According to Deuteronomy 30, if we would repent, he would bring us back.

But there are passages like Ezekiel 21, Ezekiel 36 that indicate he will bring us back to the land, and then bring us to repentance, and that's what we are seeing happen with our own eyes. So with all respect, I appreciate your question. I asked for it. It's the perfect question that I wanted to get to respond to, and I appreciate you asking it in a forthright way.

So chew on these things. There was a time when I rejected the positions I hold to. Late 70s, early 80s, as I was exploring other views and questioning, this is a hyper-literal reading of scripture, and reading some books on post-millennialism and amillennialism and typology and scripture and different things. I did kind of ridicule this idea of modern Israel being fulfillment of prophecy until just the plain sense of the word hit me between the eyes again, and I began to think it through and said, no, it is God who brought us back. It's clear. And that's why there's so much world controversy over this. That's why Satan has to wipe us out.

It is ultimately more than anything in this space right now. Hey, remember, if you like getting my e-mails, sign up now for a Frontline newsletter. That's Dr. Brown, right on the home page, you can do it. You'll be blessed if you start filling out the encounter.