Spiritual Warfare in the Old Testament

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. We hear a lot about spiritual warfare, but what about spiritual warfare as revealed in the Old Testament? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to The Line of Fire. Michael Brown coming your way again from Meccanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

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Click like and share so we can multiply this message to more people. Certainly, spiritual warfare is a topic in the New Testament. As I was praying and considering which way do we go, we've been talking about Israel, we've been talking about controversies in the church, we talked about political controversies yesterday.

I felt to dig into this, to lean into this. The New Testament, we know that Paul says in Ephesians 6 that we don't wrestle with flesh and blood. We wrestle with principalities and power. So we are in a spiritual war.

We understand that. We're called to fight the good fight of faith. The New Testament says a lot about demons. Now one reason is that Jesus coming into the world stirs a lot of things up. Jesus coming into the world brings the manifestation of the kingdom and therefore the kingdom of darkness is rattled and shaken.

So demons kind of come out of the woodwork in that respect. But another aspect is that through Jesus coming into the world we now have more light and insight into the spiritual realm. As Paul wrote to Timothy that life and immortality have come to light through the Gospel.

So also the spiritual realm has been illuminated more through the Gospel. And that's why you see references to our battle with Satan in a more pronounced way than you would see in the Old Testament. We're told in Jacob, James, the fourth chapter, to stand our ground, to resist him. We're told by Peter in 1 Peter 5 to resist the devil, to take our stand. We are warned in 2 Corinthians 11 about the wiles of the devil and his ways.

He's mentioned much more. And Philip is driving demons out of people in Acts the 8th chapter and Acts the 19th chapter when handkerchiefs and other things are taken from Paul. Demons are driven out.

People are healed. There's the famous account in Acts 19 of these seven sons of Shepha, a high priest. So these Jewish men, they've heard about what Paul's doing, driving out demons in the name of Jesus.

Here's a demonized man. They say, we adjure you in the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches come out of him. And the man jumps on them, beats them. They run out naked and bleeding. So he rips their clothes off.

He rips into them, one man. And the demon speaks through them and says, Jesus I know and I know about Paul, but who are you? I could go on with example after example from the ministry of Jesus and what the New Testament emphasizes about spiritual warfare and the battle we're in. But what about the Old Testament? Does the Old Testament deal with this as well? And if so, what does it mean to us? What can we learn from this?

How can we grow in this? Well we know about the account with Saul coming under divine judgment and an unclean spirit is sent from the Lord. So obviously God being the God of all allows this to happen. He gives his permission and hence this demonic spirit attacks Saul and torments him. And he only gets relief when David comes and plays the harp. So there is something about an anointed musician and anointed music bringing deliverance and freedom.

And this is an interesting principle. We have for example in 2 Kings the third chapter that Elisha the prophet in order to prophesy asked for a minstrel to come for a psalmist to come. And as this man begins to play the spirit comes on him. And we know in 1 Samuel 10 that Samuel describes a band of prophets, not the band like a rock band or a gospel band, a group of prophets who will be coming but they've got instruments with them and they're prophesying. So there is this connection between the anointing of the spirit and sacred music. This connection between deliverance from demonic power and sacred music. That's interesting. But there are other really interesting statements about spiritual warfare in the Old Testament that are relevant to you and me as believers today.

And that's why I want to talk about these. So let's go to the book of Isaiah. The book of Isaiah. And Isaiah chapter 24 to Isaiah chapter 27 is called the Apocalypse of Isaiah. It's apocalypse and end of the world prophetic visionary scenario. So here it is and Isaiah the book of Revelation is called the book of the Apocalypse. So it's this end time vision of shaking and upheaval in the midst of the prophetic book.

Isaiah 24 starting in verse 1. See the Lord is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it. He will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants.

It will be the same for priests as for people, for the master as for a servant, for the mistress as for her servant, for seller as for buyer, for borrower as for lender, for debtor as for creditor. The earth will be completely laid waste and totally plundered. The Lord has spoken this word. The earth dries up and withers. The world languishes and withers.

The heavens languish with the earth. So it goes on with this word of judgment. The earth is defiled by its people. They have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth.

So final judgment on the world. And look at this when you get to the end of chapter 24 in the book of Isaiah. The book of Isaiah chapter 24 and it says this beginning in verse 21. Maybe a verse you never read or you read but never noticed.

Isaiah 24 21. In that day the Lord will punish the powers or the armies in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below. So notice there are powers parallel to the kings. So you've got earthly kings. Now you've got these heavenly hosts, these heavenly rulers, these heavenly powers. He's going to punish them.

Why? Because they're both in active rebellion against God. They are actively doing the enemy's will. The Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the kings on the earth below. They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon.

They will be shut up in prison and punished for after many days. That could well be a picture of what happens in the book of Revelation the 20th chapter during the Millennial Kingdom that Satan is bound and confined and then at the end of it his release leads to final rebellion and then he suffers the punishment of eternal fire. The moon will be dismayed, the sun ashamed for the Lord Almighty will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem and before its elders with great glory. There's a picture of spiritual warfare in the Old Testament. It's telling us there are these demonic powers or these fallen angelic powers and they're in rebellion against God and they will be judged. Now, I'm going to look at some more verses in Isaiah. But let's think about Daniel the 10th chapter for a moment. Daniel chapter 10, a well-known account because it's so interesting. I remember a pastor who was not really a charismatic Pentecostal in Israel's background told me decades ago, like 40 years ago, he said that if this wasn't in the Bible I wouldn't believe it.

In other words, if someone was giving this account and had this spiritual experience he wouldn't believe it but it's in the Bible. So it says Daniel 10 one in the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel who was called Belteshazzar. This message was true and it concerned a great war.

The understanding of the message came to an revision. At that time I Daniel mourned for three weeks. I ate no choice food, no meat or wine touched by lips and I used no lotions at all until three weeks were over. Some people refer to going on a Daniel fast which is not completely abstaining from food or liquids etc.

But it is denying yourself certain things. This is where it comes from when people refer to a Daniel fast, specifically here, the first chapter but then even more so here. On the 24th day of the first month as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, I looked up, so remember he has been now three weeks in this in the self-denial position and he's been supplicating God, he's been mourning over the sins of his people. On the 24th day of the first month as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen with a belt of fine gold from Ufaz around his waist.

His body was like Topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze and his voice like the sound of a multitude. I Daniel was the only one who saw the vision. Those who were with me did not see it but such terror overwhelmed them that they had fled and hid themselves.

So I was left alone gazing at this great vision. I had no strength left. My face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. Then I heard him speaking.

As I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground. A hand touched me and sent me trembling on my hands and knees. He said, Daniel, you who are highly esteemed, consider carefully the words I'm about to speak to you and stand up for I have now been sent you. And when he said this to me, I stood up trembling. Then he continued, do not be afraid Daniel, since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before God, your words were heard and I have come in response to them. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on.

Why are you arriving three weeks later? You see how this being is just described. Some think it's the Son of God. I think it's the angel Gabriel. That's how I understand it, that it's the angel Gabriel here. But this glorious, powerful being, he said, the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard.

So Daniel's praying, Daniel's pouring out his heart to God. The first day he was heard and I've come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me 21 days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes came to help me because I was detained there with the king of Persia. Now I've come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future for the vision concerns a time yet to come. So there's like a wrestling match, a physical battle in the heavens. The prince of Persia, the angelic ruler of Persia, who's obviously fallen in rebellion, detained him and for three weeks then Michael comes and helps him and now he comes to deliver the message. This is in the Bible, friends.

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I will get to the phones shortly. A few more words though about spiritual warfare in the Old Testament. So what we see here in Daniel 10 is that sometimes an answer can be delayed because of things happening behind the scenes of which we know nothing. And it could well be that the moment we set our heart to pray, God is sending the answer. And that answer will arrive because He's sending it. But sometimes things get delayed.

And you say, well, that sounds weird. Or hey, Revelation 12, however you take that as past or future or symbolic, it talks about what? Michael and the devil battling in heaven, and Michael and his forces, and Satan and his forces battling, and then Satan cast out, that there really is a battle. And friends, sometimes when we're praying, the reason the praying is so intense is because we enter into that spiritual war. Doesn't it say in Ephesians 2 elsewhere that we are seated in heavenly places in the Messiah, Colossians 3, etc. Doesn't it tell us in Ephesians 6 that our battle is not with flesh and blood but with spiritual principalities in heavenly places? So when we are praying here on earth, we are engaging in a spiritual battle that is in the heavenlies as well as things taking place on earth. And that's why sometimes it can be very intense. I remember, oh, when was this now?

This is in the mid-1980s. I was in the little prayer room in our Bible school Christ for the Nations on Long Island, the branch of the great school in Dallas where I teach regularly, the branch they had on Long Island. And a friend of mine, a real prayer warrior, was going to join me. I was getting ready to do a debate with a rabbi and he was coming to join me to pray for the salvation of Jewish people. And he was a real man of prayer.

And he came into the prayer room to join me. And I was under a tremendous burden. You know when Paul talks about groanings that can't be uttered in Articulate Speech in Romans 8? Or when he talks about Galatians 4.19 that he felt like he was in the pains of childbirth for the Galatians until Messiah was fully formed in them. Or you read sometimes about the prophets and the burden, the weeping, the broken heart. Or Jesus being in an agony, praying in Gethsemane to the point that his sweat is like drops of blood. So I've never gotten to that level of intense prayer.

But other times it feels like you've been birthed to something spiritually, as much as I could relate as a man to a process I've never been through physically. And the prayer was under such a burden. And he just came to join me and was going to pray together with me and kind of share the burden in prayer.

Just like when you share with a friend and the friend carries this with you. And the next thing, he's under this intense burden, one of the heaviest burdens that ever hit him, and it lifted off me. And it was almost as if the Lord was saying, I want him to feel the weight of this.

He's an intercessor. And I thought, yeah, it's a real battle here. You know there's some things that come more easily. There's some places you can go and evangelize and the evangelism goes easier.

And you go to another place and it's difficult. I remember being in Europe and preaching in Sicily where there was a real outpouring taking place and we're having these meetings under a tent. They had to lift the sides of the tent because the crowds were so big and God moving. And it was powerful and Christians were being charged and the lost were being saved and yes, wonderful. And I went from there over to Portugal and not only was it in the midst of a downpour, and here's a community living in little tents and trailers. They were mobile missionaries. So it was miserably difficult. You had these outhouses to go to for the bathroom in the middle of the night, the rain. It was very challenging just physically being there. But I got up to preach the first night and it was in some abandoned movie theater or some unused movie theater and there may be fifty people in the meeting and the atmosphere completely spiritually dead.

The same me, the same preacher of the Gospel, the same Bible, but one place God had been moving powerfully and many were coming to the faith and the other, it was still a matter of planting seeds and planting seeds and watering those seeds and weeping over those seeds until something came. So sometimes friends, the intensity of the battle is an indication of the importance of the battle. The intensity of the battle is an indication of the degree of resistance that you are facing. What I did a show a few weeks back, We're in a War, I was just gripped to say, Wake up friends.

Wake up. This is not a playground. This is a battleground.

As A.W. Tozier said, most evangelical Christians over fifty years ago concluded that this is more of a playground than a battleground. No, this is a battleground we live in. Again, we don't fight with earthly weapons.

I don't mean if you're a soldier in the army. Of course you fight with earthly weapons. But I mean our battle is a spiritual battle. We're not driving out our neighbors. We're driving out demons. We are overcoming evil with good as I said at the outset. We don't repay violence with violence. That's not who we are as followers of Jesus.

But you better believe we're in a pitched battle. And there are other images in the book of Isaiah. For example, Isaiah 27 one that God will smite Leviathan, the twisting serpent. These very words were used in ancient Canaanite literature and it was Baal who smote Leviathan, the seven-headed serpent. And Isaiah says it's the rich straight.

No, no, no. It's not Baal who does it. It's the Lord. It's Yahweh who does this. In Isaiah 51 his hand rises up to smite these demonic powers. In Psalm 74, it speaks of him crushing the heads of the sea monster in the deep.

These are all spiritual images. When he splits the sea in the book of Exodus, when he splits the sea, it's a symbol of his victory over the powers of chaos. And Canaanite mythology, Yam, sea, was a god. The sea was divine in other religions. God says, no, no, it's just a sea. And behind that physical sea, these demonic powers are being vanquished. When God shines light out of darkness in Genesis 1, when he brings the dry lands, when he brings the waters together, gathers them into seas, he brings dry land, he's bringing order out of chaos. These are some of the images we have from the Old Testament. So this reality that there is this cosmic battle taking place.

There is a cosmic battle taking place. There is warfare in the heavenlies. Obviously a lot more Christians are keen on these things now or understanding them through the influence of Dr. Michael Heiser's writings and the unseen realm.

We all miss Dr. Heiser and wish we still had him with us with everything that he brought to the body. We are both trained as Semitic scholars, that was our background, your Eastern languages, literatures, etc., coming to the Old Testament with that as believers and followers of the Lord. And some different perspectives on certain points. But this revelation of the reality of the unseen realm and then the fact that we are in a spiritual battle, it doesn't make me demon conscious. I don't think about demons a lot. It doesn't make me, oh, devil, everything is devil, devil, I'll rebuke the devil all the time.

No, I don't think about the devil much, I think about the Lord. But I recognize we are in a battle. I recognize there is opposition and warfare. And I recognize we must be vigilant. And sometimes even when we are praying, we are entering into a very intense spiritual battle.

And if you've ever had this experience, someone asked you to pray for a certain situation, and the prayers become very intense very quickly. It is like, whoa, there is a real battle here. You know, it is almost like when you are getting really close to taking an enemy stronghold in a physical war, that they've got all the resistance there because they know if that stronghold goes, they are sunk. So some of you, you are right on the front lines and I feel to encourage you that the battle has gotten really intense because the breakthrough is near. Some of you, you are going to see that that applies, that the resistance has gotten more intense, the battle has gotten more intense. Why?

Because you are really stepping on some dangerous territory to the enemy. And that person's life being changed, that person being set free, that person being delivered, has been a catalyst for many, many other things. Keep pressing in. Don't be discouraged and find your strength in the Lord. We are no match for demonic powers, but in Jesus, he is no match for us. We'll be right back and I'm going straight to the phones.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire broadcast 866-34-TRUTH. Together we stand strong in the midst of the fire, in the midst of the line of fire. We stand strong and by God's grace, we will see the kingdom of God advance and we will see Jesus come to the earth and establish his kingdom fully here.

And darkness will be vanquished by light and death will be vanquished by life and sin and ugliness and unrighteousness will be vanquished by the perfect glorious kingdom of God. 866-34-8, 7884. We go to San Antonio, Texas. Mike, welcome to the line of fire. Hey Dr. Brown, thanks for taking my call again. I've been fortunate enough to get in a couple of times and I appreciate all the work you're doing. So I called probably a month ago right after the attack by Hamas the third day and so I've been listening periodically to your program while of course paying attention to the issue going on there. And a couple of things I just wanted you to reflect or I wanted to talk to you about and there may be a question in there is I've noticed that there's been on the program there's been a prevailing theme about Israel and their position in the world and biblically. And I think what I'm seeing happen is and not just you but in general is that we're seeing that there are three things operating. There's Israel the state, Jewish people the ethnic group, and Judaism. And not often are those all the same.

Some people can have one or all three. And so basically what I'm looking at is when you when we're talking about that situation currently right now the UN just released a report today that at least 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza have either been killed, hidden under debris, or injured, right? We know the state of Israel has the 28th largest military. We also know that these are things that nobody would dispute and then when I'm looking at Deuteronomy 7 particularly when we talk about Israel as a chosen group one of the principal reasons God chose this group was that his miraculous works would be shown through this group and what it talks about really interesting I think is verse three it talks about the fact that they were not bigger than the other nations now when we... Well hang on just to clarify that. When he chose them.

Sure. He said the blessing he'd make them large and they'd thrive. But he says when I chose you, you're just a handful of people. It's just you know Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the family, right?

And he makes it very clear the Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other people's for you were the fewest of all peoples but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors. That's why he did what he did. So it's not to say that Israel can't be large and Israel was... No, no, no. Right, right. So just be clear.

His blessing would make them larger. Right, right, right. That's not what I was suggesting. I was going to couple that with what we see throughout the history of these people within scripture is you typically see that the other nations that they're fighting against are the stronger in terms of military. We consistently see that. We look at Judges 7, Gideon and his 300 they were going to fight 135,000.

So we see that consistently. So when we're looking at this current state of affairs happening today, I don't think it can be disputed that the Palestinians are clearly not the mightier group, right? That doesn't necessarily make them correct or incorrect. But that is part of the context. And so when we're talking about Israel, whether it be the state, the ethnic group, or the religion of Judaism, I think that part of what is being lost is that there is a weaker group or, for using a scriptural term, a list of these within this scenario and in this conflict. And there doesn't seem like there's enough attention paid to that list of these, like an hour show, like these shows have to do with this about the true suffering. Yeah, so let me explain why.

Let me explain why. And thanks for laying that out, Mike. So number one, before Israel launched its first attack, I said because of Hamas, because of what they've done, because of that being the government of the nation, because Hamas does everything it can to multiply civilian casualties at a time like this, that when Israel goes in, as it has to do, it must do to eradicate Hamas, it's the only moral thing it can possibly do in a situation like this. And any moral nation would do the exact same thing without hesitation. So there's going to be tremendous suffering for the Palestinian people.

Please pray. And I've said endlessly and written over and over, Palestinian blood is just as precious and God's sight is Israeli blood. The death of a Palestinian baby is just as grievous as the death of a Jewish baby. The problem is, it's all on Hamas.

It is 100% their responsibility. They stop people from fleeing. Israel dropped over a million and a half leaflets over cities saying, it's not safe, you need to leave. They placed tens of thousands of phone calls to cell phones with automated message saying, we're going to be bombing your area, you need to leave.

They text people. They open up passageways for them to leave. Hamas, with snipers, shoots their people trying to flee, steals their car keys, blocks in the road, tells them stay. Hamas sets up headquarters under hospitals in children's schools.

Israel comes in. They'll actually talk to the hospital. It's happened with the Al-Shifa hospital. Okay, here's what we're doing. We have to come in because you have headquarters and hostages under the building.

So we're coming in, we're trying to get medical supplies into you. Israel tries to send fuel in. Hamas takes the fuel for themselves. So the bloodshed is terrible.

It's tragic. But, number one, I'm going to talk about the reality of what's happening. Yes, care about this, but this is all on Hamas. This is their responsibility. They continue to bring it on their people.

Their leaders have said, made it clear, we want a permanent war. So let our people die. It's only going to hurt Israel.

That's the first thing. The second thing is the worldwide rallies. So we had a big rally in DC, pro-Israel, but most of the worldwide rallies are pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian and chanting from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free, meaning no more Jews. Eradicate the state of Israel. No more Jews in the Middle East. Eradicate them.

That's what we're fighting. We're fighting anti-Semitic allies day and night. And by the way, the UN is about the worst source to go to at a time like this. They have a track record documented probably 40 years now of ugly reports against Israel, standing against Israel. Since you seem like a guy that does research, go to UNwatch.org. UNwatch.org. And you'll be shocked by what you read. Just document it case after case after case.

I document it carefully in my book Her Hands Are Staying with Blood. I mean, it's shocking the bias that's there. So I'm dealing with worldwide lies against the Jewish people. Jewish people being unsafe even in cities like New York, Jews in Berlin and other parts of Germany not wanting to wear a head covering unless they get physically attacked. You've got this crazy rise of anti-Semitism. Still being demonized.

And everything taking place in the ugliest way. I just read something about my friend Rabbi Shmueli grieving over the death of Palestinian children and babies. Grieving and saying as a rabbi, as a lover of the God of the Bible, he hates this and despises this. And it's all on Hamas. If Hamas released hostages, there'd be ceasefire.

There'd be things that are done to help the people. And Hamas is stopping it because the more civilians that die, the worse it looks for Israel. So I don't know what else to say. I push back against the lies because they are pervasive and massive at the same time saying it's tragic.

Before the war started, before Israel fought back, I said there will be more deaths of Palestinians than Israelis. It's an inevitability the way things are. And it's tragic. And we need to pray for grace in the midst of it. Can I just make one last comment?

I don't know. I want to take up all the time. But let me just make one last comment. You're very gracious, sir. And go for it. Thank you for your spirit and attitude.

Thank you as well. I only use the UN as just one source. There's many others. We could go Human Rights Watch, etc. And this is part of what I spoke about the last time I called is that too often when this conversation has more of a nuance or, if you would, a Palestinian leaning approach, then it's either met with skepticism or it's anti-Semitism.

I think that's problematic. But just the last thing I'll say, just to dive, just to the point of that this is all Hamas' fault. And if Hamas didn't do something, I was just finishing your book, Authentic Fire. It's a beautiful book.

I love the way you wrote it. And as I was reading this chapter while everything was happening and page 244, something jumped out at me and it really impacted me. And you were discussing how Pastor MacArthur would tend to overstate the things that are happening with the charismatic movement and use sort of character or speak so pervasive about it just to make his point. And he said he needed to do that.

And you responded beautifully. You said, unfortunately, this strategy is tantamount to blowing up an apartment building filled with law abiding civilians because there are terrorists inside. Actually, as noted above, a pastor actually used the terrorist word before to repeat. This is unfortunate, unnecessary and unbiblical. And I think that if we're being fair, if we're looking at what is happening in the situation and it is unfair and according to your I'm quoting you and you and you can absolutely say I'm misquoting you, but I thought it was apropos is that we cannot say that this is Hamas that is doing it even when they're throwing leaflets and displacing people from their homes. It is unfair.

And it's actually hurtful to Palestinians to say that they're bringing this on themselves when the bombs are actually the bombs of the Israeli government. So but I thank you for your comments. Again, if we had an hour and a half, I'd talk to you about it more. Well, bless you, man. Thank you for your graciousness. And just just to respond to say this last point, if this is any other war in history, OK, go back to World War Two. Look at the civilian casualties. We were right to do our best to take the Nazis out. That was a righteous good thing to do. Many German civilians died.

It's tragic, but it was the only way to destroy the Nazis and stop even more horrific bloodshed and suffering. So Israel has the moral responsibility to deal with terrorists. I didn't say it's the fault of the Palestinian people. I said it's the fault of Hamas.

I've been very, very specific. And here's the thing. When Israel is going to bomb the building, you can actually watch the Israeli Air Force. They'll release these tapes. They're about to bomb a building. And they say, we can't. Too many civilians here. We can't do it.

Yeah, but you've got a choice target. Yeah, but we can't. The people haven't left. They do their best. If Hamas forces the people to stay, Hamas comes and butchers the Israelis, goes back and hides behind the people. And the people do God, the people of Israel do their best to separate the civilians from the terrorists. That's all they can do.

So, yes, I put that entirely on Hamas. But thank you, sir, for the call. Are you tired of feeling run down, constantly battling colds, flu and infections? Trivita's elderberry with zinc and vitamin C is here to give your immune system the boost it needs. Trivita's elderberry zinc and vitamin C supplement is a three in one capsule scientifically formulated to support your immune system naturally. Did you know that black elderberry fruit possesses powerful antioxidant, anti-inflammatory and antiviral compounds? Because of its natural properties, elderberry has been shown to reduce the severity and duration of respiratory infections such as the cold and influenza. Vitamin C and zinc are powerful antioxidants that help protect ourselves from oxidative stress and damage caused by free radicals. Immune cells are particularly susceptible to oxidative stress, so maintaining optimal vitamin C and zinc levels helps support the healthy immune cell function. Elderberries have been cherished for centuries for their wellness benefits, and now Trivita has harnessed the immune system supporting power in every bottle of Trivita's elderberry enhanced with zinc and vitamin C to help you fight off colds, flu and infections. Now is the time to boost your immune system and the immune systems of those you love with Trivita's three in one elderberry, zinc and vitamin C supplement today.

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Welcome back, friends, to the Line of Fire broadcast. Going back to the phones in a moment, I want to encourage every one of you, make an investment in your own body, in your own health, and make an investment in the Line of Fire. You kill these two birds with one stone when you do it, so call 800-771-5584. Call 1-800-771-5584. Talk with our co-sponsor, Trivita. Check out the Elderberry. Things that are great for your immune system daily, my daily routine.

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You can go to trivita.com, trivita.com, but when you go, use the code BROWN25, BROWN25, because that will give you a 25% discount. All right, let us, and Mike, I love the call. I love your spirit.

Thanks for the kind words. I wish we could all have these dialogues, and the other thing, by the way, just remember, yes, the casualties are real, and they are high in Gaza, but remember, the official numbers given out come from Hamas. You just have to remember that, that the official numbers that are released come from Hamas, so there's no question terrible things have happened to the people. There's no question there's been devastation. There is no question. We don't argue that for a split second. I 100% hold to what I said. Israel does its best to minimize civilian casualties.

Hamas does its best to maximize them. All right, we go back to the phones. Let's see.

Let's go over to Josh in Spokane, Washington. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown. First and foremost, I'd like to thank you for the work that you did in forming our hands are stained with blood. I got it a week ago, and I finally have begun to read it, and I've made it through the first three chapters, and I thought that I had reached my limit in the profound or books about the tragedy of human suffering when I read the Gulag Archipelago, but this is a hard but very, very important book, and I just want to say that from someone who bought the book to all of your listeners, read his book.

It's an incredibly important book for the church to know. Thank you, sir, and you know it was written with a broken heart. I'm so glad to know it had that impact, but thank you for sharing that. You're very welcome.

You're very welcome. So to my question, to give a little context around it, I unfortunately have found out that a man who has gone to my church for quite a number of years is an espouser. Well, I was praying for Israel publicly before the church, and then the next week he gave me articles talking about Heziriah and Rothschild's and just these horrible, horrible things, and I'm going to be talking with him tomorrow and regarding them and just to kind of give a confirmation to the topic you read on today. I've felt like I've been in quite a spiritual battle these past two weeks that I've been trying to prepare for this meeting, but it seems that the chrysalis or the center around his whole quote-unquote sophisticated conspiracy surrounding the Jewish people is very centered on the quote-unquote secretive nature of the Kabbalah and the Zohar and their mysticism, and I just was hoping to gain wisdom from you. I don't have enough time to read all of that in this time frame, so if I could just get some wisdom from you regarding those mystical texts.

Here's the long and short of it, sir, and thank you for your advocacy for the truth. The long and short of it is that they are very esoteric mystical texts with deep spiritual meaning which you could either say is dark, is wrong, is deceptive, or has some divine light in it at certain points, etc., but there's nothing nefarious about it. The idea that there are secret texts talking about the Jewish people taking over the world, and these are found in the mystical texts, all that means is that people have no clue what they're reading. They have no clue what they're understanding. It would be like someone ignorant of spiritual warfare who heard the show today and said those Christians are going to come down the street shooting us with guns.

They're talking about warfare. It's a profound misunderstanding of texts. There's even a Jewish tradition that a man can't study them until he's 40 years old because they're so esoteric. To read the Zohar in English, out of all aspects of rabbinic literature, the Talmudic literature, the commentary literature, the legal literature, and things like that, that which I'm least expert in is the mystical literature, and that's because it is so dense and so esoteric and presupposes so many other aspects of learning that when it's now translated for your average person to read, they've got no clue what they're reading, and it's being completely misconstrued. I don't want to sell you another book, but I actually deal with some of these myths in Christian anti-Semitism, which is kind of a companion to Our Hands Are Stained with Blood.

So I deal with a bunch of myths in Our Hands Are Stained with Blood, but not that one. I do treat some of those texts so it is a profound misunderstanding of the text, either misunderstanding, misquotation, misapplication. When you realize that the modern state of Israel was birthed mainly by non-religious Jews, in some cases atheistic Jews, that it was a result of rising anti-Semitism in the late 1800s and more and more Jews realizing we're not at home in Europe or we're not at home in Russia, we need our own homeland. And then many came with ideas that would have been more communal, that's why they have the kibbutz system and things like that. Some of them were Marxist, etc.

So it was not some religious Jewish movement motivated by this end-time scheme of conquering the world. So all that is is popular myths and lies and misconceptions that get bandied about, and that's why I keep hitting on this stuff, because the lies are really pervasive and very destructive. Well, I would just like to say then, Dr. Brown, the first chapter of reading this book, my grandfather was a Lutheran pastor, and I, there is never any hint of any, my grandpa spent years gathering recyclables during the 1980s and 90s so that he could go to Israel, so he and my grandma could go to Israel.

And he just, it was really, really hard to read those words. And I'm just so thankful that I really do believe that what you have presented truly is the testimony of the great love of God, that despite hundreds and hundreds of years of irrational, vile hatred, somehow the love for these poor wanderers could be realized in some people of the church. And I am so thankful that I dodged that bullet and that my grandfather taught me to love the Jewish people. So thank you. Thank you so much. Bless you, Josh.

It's a wonderful heritage, and thankfully there are so many Christians around the world who have that profound and supernatural love for the Jewish people, and the leaders of Israel and many Jews have recognized it and see the sincerity, the genuineness. God bless you, sir, and thank you for the very gracious call. I gotta hurry here. Devion in Missouri, if I don't get to finish this, maybe we can take it up later in the week, but let's try. Go for it, sir. Hey, thank you so much.

So actually, I'm going to switch gears a bit. I have a textual question dealing with Isaiah 49. So I had a conversation with somebody basically discussing who's the servant of Isaiah 49. And long story short, the person I was discussing with believes that from verses one through four, talking about the nation of Israel, then verses five through six is about the prophet himself, Isaiah, and then verses seven is about the nation as well. And the main argument for verses five through six mean about the prophet and not the nation of Israel as well, is because at the beginning of verses four when the servant is speaking, there's a quotation, and at the end of the verse, the quotation ends. Yeah, there are no quotation marks in Hebrew. So you have my permission, and call screeners note this, if Devion calls in tomorrow or Friday to continue the conversation, he can get back in. He doesn't have to wait the normal month.

He can get back in. But really quickly, there are no quotation marks in the Hebrew. Even the standard rabbinic commentaries largely understand Isaiah 49 is about the prophet. We say, no, it's actually about the Messiah. But they largely understand that it's the prophet Isaiah. It's a continuous verse about the same, continuous passage about the same individual. He's called Israel in verse three, as some rabbinic commentaries know, just like Jacob was given the name Israel, he embodies Israel. But he himself is called to regather the tribes of Israel, indicating that it is not the nation of Israel. But there are no quotation marks in the Hebrew. That's just in our English translations, but not in the Hebrew. It is the same speaker speaking throughout, and God does speak. So we put the quotation marks there to recognize God speaking.

But it's God speaking to the same servant as from the beginning of the verse. Friends, keep your armor on. We're in a battle. We're in a war. But together we're making a difference. If you're not getting my emails, sign up now with the Front Lines newsletter. So important to get it. It's going to be life changing. It's going to start in the new year. Go to AskDr.Brown.org to sign up.