Ultra-Orthodox Rabbis Who Hate the Modern State of Israel

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So why is it some ultra-Orthodox Jewish rabbis hate the modern state of Israel? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. To have your eyes open today, prepare to hear some shocking things and to get some insights you're probably not going to hear on most other broadcasts.

I would say the vast, vast, vast majority of broadcasts are not going to cover what we covered today. How we cover it, I will do it factually and accurately. Michael Brown, welcome to our thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast. It is imperative at a time like this that you are equipped with truth.

That you have the resources to be able to stand in the midst of all the confusion that is out there on so many fronts. It is essential that you are getting our e-blast where we send you the latest articles and videos so you are right equipped on the front lines. We want to infuse you, friends, with faith and truth and courage, so take a minute, if you're not getting our e-mails, go to AskDrBrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, right on the home page. Sign up, we want to keep you equipped, informed with truth. Today's show, we're going to first address this subject of ultra-Orthodox Jews who hate the modern state of Israel. Many are confused by this and can't understand why it exists, I want to explain this to you. At the bottom of the hour, I'll be joined by David Parsons, a senior spokesman with the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, and then in studio with my long-time friend Reverend Pat Mahoney, involved with a protest in front of the Iranian Embassy.

A whole lot to talk about today on the broadcast. Why is it that there are ultra-Orthodox Jews who vehemently oppose the modern state of Israel and use terms in speaking against the modern state of Israel that are absolutely shocking? Check out this clip from Jerusalem. In the meantime, the wars of Meir Sherem are covered with very questionable messages. We constantly spread the message that the Zionists are just like the Nazis.

Why? What did the Nazis do? They wanted to end Judaism and the Jews, so they killed them one after the other. And Zionists, it's the same thing. They want to end Judaism.

They do not kill anyone, but they use spirituality to do it. So, you are not a Zionist? I am not a Zionist at all.

Really, I'm not. In the neighborhood, some even go so far as to proudly display their support for the Palestinians. This is particularly in the case of the sectarian organization Natori Karta, the guardians of the city in Aramaic, an ultra-Orthodox community created in 1935 by the grandfather of Meir Rabbi Hirsch. We do not recognize the Zionist entity nor its occupation.

We think this is unfair and dishonest. The Zionists took over this land by force and in blood. We believe this state must cease to exist, one way or another. All those who do not follow the way of Torah eventually disappeared. And this is what will happen to the Zionist state soon. For more than 50 years, Natori Karta have demonstrated alongside Arabs in Palestinian territories.

Last January, Meir Hirsch sent three of his disciples to Jenin to support former prisoners accused of terrorism by Israel. Alright, so there are those in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community that still oppose the modern state of Israel. The largest would be the Satmar Hasidim. They're based in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and also have a base in upstate New York called Kiryat Yoel. So the city of Joel named after their founding Grand Rabbi who was miraculously delivered from Holocaust, a great escape. So they strongly oppose the modern state of Israel, but they are not as extreme as the Natori Karta, which is a smaller group.

Natori Karta in Aramaic means Keepers of the City. And they have gone so far, as we just heard in this clip, to have met with Palestinian leaders to have been friends with Yasser Arafat. They'll go to Iran for an anti-Israel conference. So Natori Karta, widely despised in the Jewish world, even in the religious Jewish world, for their standing with and siding with terrorists.

So they are extreme beyond. But why is it that the majority of ultra-Orthodox rabbis before the founding of the modern state of Israel opposed it? Why is that? And why is it now that Natori Karta is speaking out even more loudly and clearly against the modern state of Israel? Here's a recent pro-Palestinian rally, and one of the Natori Karta rabbis is speaking at it.

Listen to what he had to say. This is here in the States. Our next speaker is, I would like to thank and introduce Jews united against Zionism, Rabbi David Feldman.

Thank you. Yes, we are angry. It's because we are humans. We stand here on the CCNY campus as human beings, and we condemn this genocide taking place in Gaza, where we witness, where we see so many innocent men, women and children, mass murdered.

This is criminal and has to stop. As Jewish people, we are here joining you all. It's because we are Jews. It's because we know what suffering is.

It's our communities. It's our families who suffered in the Holocaust. We know what suffering is, and we don't want to see this happen to anyone. All right, so we can all agree that we don't want to see suffering, we don't want to see the Palestinians suffer, we don't want to see the Israelis suffer. We can all agree that Palestinian blood is as precious in God's sight as Israeli blood, and the death of a Palestinian baby is as grievous in God's sight as the death of a Jewish baby. We should all agree on that, and we should pray for Israel to use restraint in its attempts to eradicate Hamas and eradicate terror at the least possible expense for civilians in Gaza.

That should be our heart together. So some of what that rabbi says we should all agree with. But what about the elimination of Zion?

What about the elimination of Zionism and the state of Israel? So let's go back to before the founding of the modern state of Israel. There is a passage, a medrashic passage, so a homiletical rabbinic passage. It is not halakhah, it is not law, it is haggadah, it is homiletical tradition. And it is what's referred to as the three vows, the three vows. And the three vows were these, this is from Rabbi Zira, or the three oaths I should say, that the Jews should not rise like a wall that is moved to Israel en masse. This is oaths made by God and by the Jewish people. Second, that the Jews should not rebel against the nations of the world.

And third, that the nations of the world will not excessively oppress Israel. So until the Messiah comes, this was the understanding then, until the Messiah comes and regathers the exiles and rebuilds the temple, that the Jews should be content with living in these nations and not go en masse to Israel. Now it was always Jewish law that you should live in Israel if possible. If you can live in Israel, you should live in Israel. So there has always been a Jewish presence there through the centuries.

That has never stopped at any point. But there were many rabbis who said this, number one, it's for the Messiah to regather the exiles and re-establish the state. And according to these three oaths, we shouldn't move back en masse to Israel. Number two, and I'm just giving in numbers here, not necessarily in the order, number two, if there's a modern state of Israel, it must be Torah observant. If it's not Torah observant, then what's the point of having a state? What's the point of having a secular state? That would be sinning in the sight of God if Shabbat is not being observed, if dietary law is not being observed, if the laws of purity are not being kept, if Israel is not following the biblical calendar and living according to Torah ethics, why in the world do you even want a state?

So you shouldn't even exist unless the whole state is Torah observant, and that's going to be in the messianic era. And thirdly, that this would only inflame antisemitism in the world, et cetera. That was the position of the majority of ultra-Orthodox rabbis leading up to the establishment of the modern state of Israel. Post-Holocaust, a lot of that shifted.

Not for all, but for many it did shift when they realized we do need a homeland or we're going to be completely exterminated. And others said it is the beginning of the messianic redemption. Other rabbis, other great Jewish thinkers, ultra-Orthodox and others, said this is part of the messianic redemption.

It is the regathering of our people back to the land. It is preparing the way for the coming of the Messiah, and therefore we should welcome this. And that position has been embraced by more and more and more rabbis and ultra-Orthodox Jews over the years since then. So, Nitya Rekarta, they are widely despised by the larger Jewish community, even by many, many religious Jews who reject the modern state of Israel because they go as far as going to Iran and siding with terrorists and being friends with Arafat and things like that. So, it brings terrible reproach to the Jewish cause. There are others like the Satmar that continue to say, hey, we want to live peacefully with everyone, this is not the way it's going to work out. We want Messiah to come and establish the land of Israel for his people, etc. So, they remain opposed.

But many others have shifted in their views or at least become neutral. The fact is, though, that these three oaths, this is not law. In other words, Jewish law did not forbid the Jewish people from resettling to the land in large numbers. Jewish law said you should live in the land if possible. And interestingly, there's another later Midrash that Rabbi Zira actually changed his mind about this, that his interpretation and understanding of this, that he changed his mind and said, no, we should go up in mass back to the land of Israel.

And in fact, if we had done that after the Babylonian exile instead of largely state in exile, if we had come back, then in point of fact, we wouldn't have had the Second Temple destroyed, etc. So, he shifts his views in another Midrashic statement. Here's the bottom line, though. As I've stated over and over and over, and I've not yet to this day heard a good rebuttal to this. If God in fact scattered the Jewish people in judgment, still as his chosen people, that never changed. It's very clear.

Paul's emphatic on it. They're still elect not to salvation, but still God's chosen people for service and still have a certain covenant, and that covenant does include the land promises, and it does include a final turning, a final salvation. So, every individual Jew now lives and dies like everyone else. Do we reject the Messiah or not? And ultimately, every Jew will live and die by that same question. Will we reject the Messiah or not?

Will we receive him and bow down to him and receive forgiveness and grace through him? The bottom line that we can't get away from, we can't get away from, remains the same. The God who scattered the Jewish people is the God who regathered the Jewish people.

This is what he did. Human beings can't do this. If God scatters, we can't gather. The UN can't do it. Jewish leaders can't do it. The world can't do it.

Satan won't do it. It's God who regathered. And the world hatred against the Jewish people, the irrational, demonic, horrific world hatred against the Jewish people, is a further example and further evidence of the fact that it is God who regathered the Jewish people back to the land. It is that simple. It doesn't mean everything Israel does is right or true.

It does mean it is God who regathered and it's Satan who wants to wipe out Israel. Remember that. Never forget it. It is a spiritual reality that explains a whole lot.

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As a new customer, 100% of your order proceeds from your first order will go to support the Line of Fire radio broadcast. 1-800-771-5584 or online at trivita.com. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. Hey, shout out to our co-sponsor TriVita. Thanks so much for helping us bring this broadcast around the nation and around the world.

If you're interested in some amazing wellness products, go to trivita.com, use the code BROWN25 or call 800-771-5584. You won't be disappointed and you get to support this broadcast at the same time. I want to personalize this for a moment as we're talking about the war in Israel.

I want to personalize this for you. And my dear friend, Rabbi Shmuley, my frequent debating partner, he's in Israel, has been there pretty much since the conflict broke out. He's got kids involved in the front lines. His son, Mendi, that I've known since he was a little boy, after the debates we'd go out and have meals together and got to know him pretty well.

I mean, just at the meals, but watching him grow up over the years and then hanging out, spending some time with him at his eldest sister's wedding years ago. So Shmuley just posted this and I sent him a note saying I'm going to share this with everyone that listens and watches. And Shmuley praying the priestly blessing over Mendi, his son Mendo, before he goes back out to battle against Hamas terrorists. And I just want to personalize this and ask you to pray. Pray for all those involved that God would protect them, that evil would be eradicated, that justice would be done, that those who are innocent would be spared, and that God would protect those that are fighting against evil.

And you can lift up Mendi by name, Mendi Boteach. So let's just listen to Shmuley. He posted this, sent it out widely, so it's something that he wants to be seen and heard. So just a reminder that these Israeli parents and these Jewish parents, they don't want their kids to have to go out and risk their lives. And every day you get a report of an Israeli soldier killed, taken out of Hamas terrorists. This is a war Israel would rather not be fighting.

It is a war started by Hamas. Let us not forget that. Let us keep that perspective.

In fact, guys, I want to go to the Mellie Phillips clip first. This is a British commentator. She's on Guardian News, one of the British outlets. And she's laying out fundamentally what a big, big part of the problem is here that just doesn't get stated plainly enough.

So let's listen to what Mellie Phillips has to say. All the evidence suggests, and the polling suggests, that the majority of Palestinians actually want the death of Israelis, and they want Israel gone. What Israel is fighting actually is Iran at the moment through its proxy, Hamas. But this idea that the Middle East conflict, insofar as it is between Israel and the Palestinians, the idea that that is about the division of land is simply wrong.

This is the illusion that the West has pursued for decades. It is not about the division of land. If it was about the division of land, a state of Palestine living next to a state of Israel, it would have been solved in the 1930s. It would have been solved every single time this state of Palestine has been offered to them.

But they have turned it down because they make it absolutely clear, something that the British media very, very rarely, in fact, never talks about. Their aim, and I'm not talking about the Hamas, I'm talking about the Palestinian leadership, the Palestinian authority led by Mahmoud Abbas. Their aim is the destruction of Israel.

They say so. They say so in Arabic. They say so in their insignia and maps, which if you look at what the state of Palestine would look like, it is Israel.

It is not these disputed territories. You can see it in their educational materials in which they teach their children. This is the Palestinian authority. They teach their children that their highest calling in life is to murder Jews and steal all their land, to take Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa.

These are Israeli cities. They want the lot, and they say so. They also say it's holy war, that Israel is intent on destroying the Al-Aqsa Mosque. This lie has ignited Islamic jihadi hysteria since the 1920s.

It is a total lie. So there's no hope. There has to be a change in leadership and there has to be a change in ideology. You have to uproot radical Islamic ideology.

How do you do that? That's where you need miraculous intervention. That's where you need people saying, why are we killing each other? Why are we destroying the future for our kids and our grandkids?

Isn't there a better way forward? And the adage remains true. If the Palestinians put down their weapons, we're talking about from the leadership town, there'd be no more war. If the Israelis put down their weapons, there'd be no more Israel. Don't be deceived.

I'm going to be a broken record on this. When you hear people saying free Palestine, when you hear people saying from the river to the sea, Palestine must be free, that means no more Israel. That means no more Jews. That means the area will be Judenrein, cleansed of Jews like the Nazis want to do.

It is the same thing. All right, last, I just want to play this clip. This is a hedge fund manager, hedge fund manager, rich Jewish man from the University of Pennsylvania background, a donor there. He says no more. People are just waking up to reality.

Listen to what he has to say. Let me just say one thing. You know, one of the things that the protesters are saying, and one of the things I really sincerely believe is that when people tell you who they are, you should believe them. And the protesters, their slogan is free Palestine from the river to the sea.

The river is the Jordan River, and the sea is the Mediterranean. And free Palestine from the river to the sea means get rid of all the Jews. You know, the Nazis had a different way of saying it. It was Judenrein, no Jews. What we have in the protesters right now is dressed up in the clothing of progressivism as pure hatred of Jews. My view is any student who holds up a sign that says free Palestine from the river to the sea should be expelled. That's not free speech.

That's calling for murder. You know, Steve Eisberg saying that, I think I had the name right, but loud and clear that these are the realities. If we were saying let's discuss is there a two-state solution, is there going to be a one-state solution, and everyone wants to live together in peace, that's a whole different discussion. If we say is there any way Israel could use more restraint, is it possible in trying to take out the terrorists who have embedded themselves in the midst of the people? Remember, Hamas has spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars not just allegedly enriching themselves, the senior leaders living in luxury in places like Qatar, etc., but they haven't built bomb shelters for their people. No, they built terror channels. And there's even evidence now of taking fuel from a hospital to keep the Hamas terrorists going.

And their supplies, they've got to keep themselves going. It's not about the people. It's about radical Islamic ideology.

They're willing to sacrifice the people for their cause. If you're on the side of justice, you need to stand against Hamas, you need to stand with Israel against the terror, and then say let's work together for a viable solution for all those in the region, and let's get rid of the corrupt leadership. And with that, hopefully, the Israeli government can shift from some of its bad right-wing people that are too extreme and get in a more balanced government as well. But the major problem lies in terms of the radical Islamic ideology and the Palestinian leadership that has been corrupt and has hurt the people and let them down. When it becomes the good of the people and the good of the children, the good of the next generation, we can pray that hearts and minds will change.

One last note. As much as my heart goes out to Palestinian Christians, many of whom are progressive Christians stuck in the middle of this, especially in Judea-Samaritan called the West Bank because very few live in Gaza, they do not speak for the government. They do not speak for the leadership. They themselves are not radical Muslims. As much as I'm sympathetic to their cause and grieve for their losses, loss of friends, family members, and things like that, they do not speak for the government.

They do not represent the government. Please, don't be deceived by those voices. We come back, some eye-opening conversation with David Parsons.

Hey friends, Dr. Michael Brown here. Do you remember when people thought I was crazy when I said it's not too late for America, that God can still do something in our country, that there is going to be a pushback, a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution? And do you remember when people thought that you were crazy because you felt the same way, because you believed what I was saying and already felt it in your heart? Well friends, that pushback is here. The gospel-based moral and cultural revolution we've been talking about for 25 years is unfolding, and we are right in the thick of it, and the line of fire broadcast is divinely positioned for such a time as this. Friends, you would be so gratified and blessed as I hear, if you could hear what I hear, testimony after testimony as leaders, young people, old people, moms, dads, students, people from all backgrounds come up to me and say, Dr. Brown, you're providing a template for us, you're providing a blueprint for us, you're showing us how to do this, how to have hearts of compassion, backbones of steel, but friends, it's a joint effort.

We do this together, and with your support, we can amplify this broadcast around the nation and amplify this voice to shake the nation. Join our support team today, become a torchbearer with a dollar or more per day. Here's the number to call to sign up, 800-538-5275. That's 800-538-5275, or go to AskDrBrown.org, A-S-K-D-R Brown.org, and become a monthly supporter. Click on donate monthly support.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. We're doing our best to connect with David Parsons, and Jerusalem had to set up for some days, but something may have come up. We may not be able to connect with him.

Pat Mahoney we're going to connect with because he's in studio with me waiting to join me, so we'll connect with Pat in a moment, a few minutes as well. And if we don't get on with David, I've got some very, very important stuff to share with you that I get to squeeze in here. Let me encourage every one of you, friends, now is the time to partner together with us here on the line of fire.

It is a critical hour. We are here for such a time as this, and I believe you know you can trust my voice. We've been in the Lord now 52 years.

I'm a recipient of his deep and wonderful mercy for so many years. And you know he's given us this call to reach out and resist. There's the call we have, for example, with gay activism. Reach out to the people with compassion, resist the agenda with courage.

That's the call we've worked with almost 20 years now. When it comes to the Jewish people, we reach out to the Jewish people to win it to the Messiah, and we resist anti-Semitism in the culture. It's the same in many other things that God's positioned us to do. We live with this holy tension. And let us be your voice. Let us broadcast this message out together.

And friends, as you are equipped, you can equip others. I just did a broadcast yesterday for a dear younger brother, Gen Z, 100,000 Instagram followers. He said, Dr. Brown, you have no idea how you've changed my life in the last three years. Can you talk to Gen Z? So we did about 45 minutes about Israel, about Hamas, about the conflict, speaking directly to the strengths and weaknesses of Gen Z, making appeal to them. And I pour in tons of time. More than any other generation, I'm pouring to Gen Z on a regular basis. What a joy to do it.

What a dear young brother, what a joy to have that audience and outlet help us educate, equip even more people. The tide of anti-Semitism is rising beyond anything we have ever seen, beyond anything we've ever seen in our lifetimes. It is rising in dangerous ways. You're talking about New York City. There are people saying, you know, if you wear a yarmulke, it could be dangerous, or students being afraid to go to campus.

It's New York City, the largest Jewish population of any city in the world. So things are intensifying rapidly. It is so critical that we get the truth out, that we get accurate information out. So stand with us today.

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Click on donate monthly support. All right. I want to read to you the quotes of some commentaries on Romans 11, 28, and 29. When Paul's speaking about the Jewish people who do not believe, the Jewish people who at that point are rejecting Jesus, Yeshua, as the Messiah. And he says that right now, writing to Gentile believers, right now they are enemies for your sake, right, for the gospel. They're enemies of the gospel for your sake. So they're rejecting the Messiah has now brought the gospel to you, but they're beloved on account of the fathers for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

And actually we have David Parsons on the line. So I'm going to get back to that another day. I just want your appetite. I got a whole bunch of fascinating quotes from commentaries about the ongoing chosenness of Israel, the Jewish people. But without further ado, senior spokesman with the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, David, welcome to the line of fire.

Thank you, Dr. Brown. It's good to be with you. Shalom from Jerusalem.

Let me ask you a question, and we've got to move fast in about nine or ten minutes that we have. Why is it that there is an International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem? Why is it so important for Christians to say that we love the Jewish people and are standing with them? Well, we were founded in 1980 when the last embassies were pressured to leave Jerusalem by the threat of an Arab oil embargo. And there were Christians here who decided if our nations aren't going to represent us, we'll represent ourselves and open the International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem. That was a time when there were no embassies left here in the city.

Some have come back now, and thank God, and we've always encouraged more to come. But even with the American Embassy back here, we're here representing a worldview of millions of Christians around the world who go beyond what our State Department can say about U.S.-Israel relations and really express a biblical heart for the Jewish people and the State of Israel and their capital of Jerusalem. What impact has the Christian Embassy had on the mentality of the people of Israel and the government of Israel as far as Christian support of the Jewish people?

Because as we know our history, most Jews would assume that Christians hate Jews and they've persecuted Jews, they can't tell a Crusader Christian from a real Christian, and there's been terrible history. What impact has the Christian Embassy actually had? Well, look, when we started out, you know, it was still a lot of the Jewish rejection of Jesus was still very strong here, and it's a lot of history to overcome the long, tragic record of Christian anti-Semitism. But we think we've made a lot of headway over the last 40-some years in really showing the true face of Jesus and expressing unconditional love and support for these people just because, you know, it's the family of Jesus, and it's commanded in our own scriptures to bless them, show them mercy, pray for the peace of Jerusalem. And I think, you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu and a lot of other Israeli officials, he's really, you know, probably respects the whole history of Christian Zionism and understands it and can articulate it better than most Israeli officials, but most do. But even last year, we had a video greeting from Prime Minister Naftali Bennett.

He was the Prime Minister at the time. He gave us a video greeting for our Feast of Tabernacles, and he said that Christian support for Israel is legendary. And I found that quite interesting coming from an Israeli leader that, you know, what is legendary is not Christian hate but Christian love for Israel.

That shows a lot of progress. Yeah, that's a new legend, a glorious legend. Let that be the legacy. And he himself is an Orthodox Jew. And I was there, I spoke at the festival in 1992, just one of the great events in the land. And when Jan Willem van der Hoeven was a leader there, and Chris, know your current leadership, but just the amazing, the crowds from all around the world, the festivities, the celebrations in the streets, what a lot of Christians now around the world know is that, no, no, no, the Jews are spitting at Christians, and they're spitting at the Christian embassy. Is that the norm? Is that what you've been received with over the years, when thousands march down the streets?

Is that what normally happens? Well, guys, there was a lot of vegetation and a lot of reports of what was happening, Christians through the first eight or nine months of this year, leading up into our feast. But we even invited the chief rabbis to come on our Israeli guest night. Israeli leaders, especially President Isaac Herzog, he defended us, and they took serious steps by the police to cut down on some of the attacks. And where we are right now, Dr. Brown, with the Hamas war, that those days of, you know, a few Jews spitting on Christians seems so trivial compared to the absolute vile hatred, which Hamas has, not only towards Jews, but Christians and any infidels. And so I don't think that issue, I think most Israelis right now are very, very appreciative of Christian support and are embarrassed by any Jew who still is trying to agitate against us. Exactly.

And that's, of course, what we've experienced so many years in the land. If someone says to you, but David Parsons, you're a Christian, don't you care about the suffering of the people of Gaza? Obviously, you hear questions like this.

What do you say in response? Look, we certainly know that God loves all people. But there's a special calling over the Jewish people. As you were saying, he still has an enduring election, an enduring covenant relationship with them. That is irrevocable. You can't revoke it.

It's not nullified. That we should have confidence in our own calling and covenant relationship with God and still be able to respect what they have. But look, the problem in Gaza, especially with the civilians there, that Hamas has had almost 20 years now of free reign to totally indoctrinate the people of Gaza to make them willing sacrifices and martyrs for their calls of jihad, not only against Israel, but the Crusader West and all infidels. And I think the whole Christian world needs to wake up to that. I think most of us, we don't think about the Crusades or, you know, most of the West is post-Christian. And those of us who are still Christians, you know, the Crusades are the last thing on our mind.

But here memories run long. And Hamas hates us just as much as the Jews. It's just that the Jewish state and people here are that first enemy that if they overcome them, they take it as a sign and retaking Jerusalem. And it's a sign that all is now with them to finally conquer the world. David, that little snippet there is so incredibly important to scream out to the world. I mean, the old saying, first the Saturday people, then the Sunday people. That is the reality. Christians with bleeding hearts for the people in Gaza, I'm glad that you care.

God cares. But remember, Hamas hates Jews and hates Christians and wants to have a worldwide Islamic rule. That's the ultimate goal. The first enemy is the Jewish people in the land.

David, where's the best place for folks to go to connect with Christian embassy? Yeah. Let me just add to that point that, you know, a lot of people think that this radical Islamic terrorism is bred out of poverty and ignorance. And the Palestinian people receive more foreign aid per capita than any other people on earth. It's been that way for decades. And it gets spent. It's actually a racket, an international racket. And it gets spent. Yeah, just got to jump in. It gets spent, unfortunately, on terrorism and it gets spent to go into the pockets of leaders.

I will tell you how to connect with Christian embassy in Jerusalem when we come back. Are you experiencing fatigue, heart palpitations or tingling in your hands and feet? These may be signs that you are deficient in vitamin B12, which may increase your risk of serious cardiovascular conditions without you even knowing it. I'm Paul Burnett, a board certified doctor of holistic health and director of wellness services at Trivita.

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These statements are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Sorry we connected with David a little late and had to cut into, well, just out of time. But if you want to connect with the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem and be part of one of the amazing annual Sukkot celebrations, normally around October every year, go to I-C-E-J.org.

I-C-E-J.org. I'm sitting in studio with my long-time friend, Rev. Pat Mahoney. Pat has been on the front lines of the pro-life movement almost the entire time, 50 years, could talk for hours about the significance of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, has been arrested many times for the cause of righteousness, went to Hong Kong to stand with demonstrators against the takeover by Communist China, and has always sided for justice, has always stood against oppression.

Obviously, that's what puts him on the front lines of the pro-life movement. But just yesterday was involved in a major protest, and I want to talk about it, and Pat saw it for Israel, what's happening in the Middle East. Well, Pat, welcome to the line of fire. Well, I'm glad I'm on here. Of course, you picked an Irishman who looks like he owns a Jewish delicatessen, so I'm allowed to be with you on a Jewish Thursday. So, Pat, you've been on the air with me a bunch of times, but the first time sitting here in the studio. It's great to be in the studio.

Yes, it's my first time. All right, so what happened yesterday? Well, Dr. Brown, as you, so many around the world were concerned about what we're seeing happen in Israel. And I think what your listeners need to know, Hamas, Hezbollah are funded by Iran.

It's the largest supporter of terrorism in the world. And being in Washington, D.C., I've been based there 31 years, we're now thinking, OK, what are the next steps for our political leaders and for our country? And we have to come to grips. We have to deal with Iran. And so we went out there.

There may be some pictures up on the screen. We had a powerful protest. We were thankful.

Images of it through AP, Associated Press, Getty appeared all over the world. We put red fabric in front of the interest section. Iran doesn't have an embassy in America.

It's called an interest section. We put victims' pictures who were killed on October 7th. We had a news conference and we drew attention to some of the things that our country, the Biden administration for now, must do. Crippling sanctions against Iran, cut their oil exports, make sure that six billion dollars for the prisoner exchange is absolutely frozen. And do not let any Iranian diplomats come to the U.N. and rip Israel and rip America like they just did a week and a half ago. So we think it's important. We're now looking at steps, people saying, well, where do we go from here? We have to address Iran.

We have to. They're the most destabilizing element in this entire situation. There would be no Hamas without Iran's funding.

There'd be no Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad. So America must come to grips with this. And our politicians, it's a bipartisan issue. They have to say we have to aggressively deal with Iran. Why haven't we done that? Why the putting money back into Iran, the six billion dollars for prisoner exchange, the nuclear treaty, which at best, if it was adhered to, would slow down Iran getting a nuclear bomb. But it hasn't been adhered to. That's been overwhelmingly demonstrated with physical proof that they haven't adhered to it. Why are we making the wrong choices?

That's a great question. You know, we're nonpartisan, so I'm not here to do a promotion for former President Trump or to tear down President Biden. I will say, and you were not a confident to the president. You weren't even active in the White House then during President.

You were completely nonpartisan during his administration. Yeah. I don't know if you know this. I got banned from the White House. I knew it. I just didn't know if I could say it. Oh, yeah. A ban from the White House under President.

Long story. Under President Trump. Just so people know, you're not just bashing the Democrats or President Biden.

For sure. So when President Trump was in office, his crippling sanctions were working. You hear President Trump say a lot of things, but this one is true. This wouldn't have happened if I was president. Why? Because Iran would not have had the resources to fund Hamas and their terrorism.

We need to return back to that. Why is President Biden doing this? I'm not 100 percent sure, but I'm hoping and praying that he will see the mistake here and realize we can't get peace. We can't have a, quote unquote, ceasefire or any resolution while Iran funnels hundreds of millions of dollars into Hezbollah and Hamas. So we're going to be pushing hard. This was it's kind of sad.

I feel badly. It hasn't happened more with the first national demonstration calling for this at the Iranian interest section, where the first group that has had a public demonstration like this pointing out their support of terror. And we want our legislative leaders and we also prayed there and we prayed for innocent Palestinians. By the way, Dr. Brown, there is something good coming out of Iran. There is a massive revival among Christians in Iran.

And we'll come to that in a minute. But before we talk about the good that's happening there, underground largely, should Americans think, hey, Iran is our friend, the Iranian leadership, Ayatollah Khamenei, et cetera, they like America, they just hate Israel. Or is it death to Israel, death to America, are they the little Satan, we're the big Satan. We certainly saw that with the Iranian hostage takeover. The Iranian foreign minister, stunning to me, was granted a visa to come into New York City to speak at the U.N. And he talked about, I shouldn't be laughing, I'm stunned, he got up there in our country at the U.N. and said if we continue to stand with Israel, fire will rain down upon us. Iran is not a friend to America, they're not a friend to freedom, they're not a friend to women, they're not a friend to human rights.

In fact, Dr. Brown, the most amazing thing happened yesterday. We were at the intersection and an Iranian Muslim woman came out, she thanked us. You know what she said? She said there are hostages in Israel, in Gaza, and they need to be freed, but the radical Islamic clerics are holding 80 million Iranians hostage. She talked about how beautiful Iran used to be 40 or 50 years ago. So, listen, America has got to address this Iranian problem.

Certainly we have China, Russia, but Iran is a dangerous, dangerous rogue nation that would, look, Dr. Brown, if you would put babies in ovens and cut babies' heads off, and rape women and parade them through the streets while Hamas and Iran are celebrating, nothing's off the table with this nation. Exactly, and they do have certain apocalyptic end time views, and so this can be playing into that. So, within Iran, I was just with two former devout Muslims, husband and wife, followers of Jesus from Iran, telling me the stories of what's going on. First, the younger generation is becoming much more secular. They are casting off, they've seen the corruption, they've seen the oppression of it. Islam is not a living faith for them, very high percentage of atheists, and then either the fastest or the second fastest growing church anywhere in the world is in Iran, largely underground. What do you know about what's happening?

Well, that's true. We've talked to many pastors over there. What people also need to realize, Iran has the most educated populace in the Arab world in terms of, so they want jobs, they want this. The Iranian church is growing so quickly, and that is one of our prayers, that as they seek God, as they cry out to God, just like happened in Poland and with the Soviet empire, we'll see this come down. And yes, everyone out there listening to this program needs to pray for the Christian church in Iran. I believe that that is one of the opportunities that doesn't make CNN or MSNBC or New York Times, but can really bring radical change.

And we've been very involved. We were involved with Netta in the Green Revolution a number of years ago, and then Masha Amini, who was killed in custody when she wasn't wearing a head cover. There are serious demonstrations and unrest.

The recent winner of the Nobel Peace Prize is an Iranian human rights activist who's in prison right now. So there's a lot going on in Iran, and we hope the regime comes down. So, as we're praying for the regime to come down, just pray this, Lord, your kingdom come to Iran. Let God sort out how it happens, right?

Yes. But, so you have the rising, younger generation that's pushing back against this. You have the growing church.

If you add in economic sanctions that really push things, then the government has to go. It's a natural thing to happen. So, listen, we've got 30 seconds. Why don't you just lead us in prayer, all right, for God's kingdom purposes. You want me to pray?

Please do. Father, my prayer is so simple right now. Come, Holy Spirit, to Iran. Come, Holy Spirit, and move powerfully, however you choose to do it.

The Book of Daniel says you control the times and seasons, you put kings in place, and you remove them. Sovereign God, move for your glory and the world's good. In the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, we pray. Amen. Amen. Good prayer by a Presbyterian ordained reverend. Let's not rumble.

I guess it was ordained that you prayed that prayer. Let's not rumble. Friends, great time being with you. Serious, serious issues.

We smile because God is God and He is at work. But let's really keep these things in prayer. Tomorrow, we'll get you a call, so you get to weigh in. All the stuff you've differed with me on this week and you want to give me peace of your mind, you get to do it tomorrow, right here on The Line of Fire. Another program powered by the Truth Network.