Dr. Brown Answers Your Toughest Questions

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

Whole lines are open. You've got questions. We've got answers.

Let's do it. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome to the broadcast. You've got questions. We've got answers.

This is how we end the week together here. Any question of any kind that relates in any way to any topic that ever comes up on the Line of Fire, anything I've ever said, talked about, preached about, written about, it's fair game. So you may want to ask me a question that you're curious about, but if it's an area where I have no expertise, no background, no knowledge, I can't help. But we're not afraid of controversy, and I welcome those who differ with me.

Often I'll see on social media challenges, what about this, what about that. But I'm not able to respond to 99.9% of posts on social media, so give us a call. If you're watching live on YouTube or Facebook, you've got an issue with me, give us a call. 866-348-7884. 866-34-TRUTH. Sometimes when we start the show, every phone line is completely jammed, and it's really hard to get through. I'm looking now, we've got phone lines open, which is rare on a Friday, so it's a great time to call in.

866-348-7884. And we will start with our buddy Eddie from New Haven, Connecticut. Welcome back to the program, buddy. Dr. Brown, how are you today?

I'm doing just great, thank you. Here was our hot topic we had this past week. We're talking about in Luke, where Jesus met the guy full of demons. So it's a two-part question, Dr. Brown. So the story goes, obviously the demons say his name's Legion, we are many. And instead of Jesus just casting them out, they ask if they could go into the pigs across the street or wherever they were. So he grants that to them, but now when they go into the pigs, the pigs run in the water, they drown, and I'm saying, wait a minute, the demons didn't drown, but where did the demons go?

All they did was kill pigs. Right. So we're saying, I don't know. You can answer that, Dr. Brown, but I've got one more quick one for you pertaining to this.

Yes. So the first thing is, why didn't Jesus just cast them into a place of punishment or like a jail where they be held until final judgment? On the one hand, it wasn't time for that, but on the other hand, it was a visible demonstration of how many demons were in this man, and then how self-destructive these demons were. So we know from Matthew 13 that when the demon would leave a person, it would go about looking for another body to inhabit. So here the pigs, these demons are so self-destructive, they go in the pigs, it now demonstrates how many there were. You know, a couple thousand pigs run down in the bank and kill themselves and shows how destructive they were. But yeah, it's self-defeating, and now they've got to find some other place to inhabit.

And of course, from what we understand, they prefer a human to an animal. But it was the Lord's way of allowing a demonstration of how many demons were in the man and how self-destructive and demonic these demons really are. All right, part two, go ahead. Oh yeah, so then part two, so we're talking about it, how it must have been, how it went down. But then I said, guys, how about this?

How about if I'm the farmer of the pigs? And I came home, my wife said, how was your day? I said, huh, I lost my whole herd over here.

What happened? I don't know, it was a guy across the street who said something and now we're in the unemployment line. Exactly. So God knows what he's doing. There are some who argue that these weren't Gentiles but that they were Jews and they had no business herding pigs, and this was judgment on them for doing that. Others would just say God knows what he's doing. And it could well be that there was wickedness involved. It could well be that this person was sitting in their business and judgment came on them. Or it could be that God repaid them in other ways.

I mean, these are all fair questions, but if we could figure out to ask them, then God's about a trillion miles ahead of us along the way. And it's just like I remember a brother when I was first saved talking about 2 Kings, the first chapter, where the king sends men to get Elijah the prophet and they say, oh, man of God, come with us. He said, if I'm a man of God, then let the fire of God fall and consume you in the 50 with you. And it happens. It happens with the second guy. And the third guy says, look, please have mercy. And my friend was saying, look, it could be that the first guys going were sinners and rebels, et cetera. And they deserved it, so they were there.

They were at the wrong time at the wrong place by the plan of God. Hey, keep the questions coming. Say hi to everyone at your Bible study, okay? Thank you, Dr. Brown.

All right. 866-34-TRUTH. Yeah, so Eddie's a New Yorker, lives in Connecticut. He's been part of this Bible study for years, so they often have discussions. I think Eddie helps spark a lot of the discussions there.

So we get to know each other over time. All right, let's go to Tempe, Arizona. Robert, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Robert, are you listening by radio or online? Robert, are you there? Yes, I am. I'm actually from Charlotte, and I am listening via radio. Oh, okay. I wonder why it says Tempe or Phoenix on my board here. Anyway, it comes up automatically. But glad to have you listening on a great station in Charlotte and not far from where I am, except I'm in Texas today. But go ahead, sir.

Thanks so much for your time. In regard to your experience with Jewish countermissionary organizations, two questions, so it's twofold. Which do you consider the most prominent and influential?

Right. In terms of countermissionary organizations, really the main organization is called Jews for Judaism, and it's very small. It's really Rabbi Michael Skoback. There have been a couple of others with him over the years, Julius Sis, or others have worked with him. A fellow I'm much more friendly with, Ellie Cone, has worked with them in more recent years, but didn't have a lot of funding, and other rabbis like Yisrael Blumenthal, who I've gotten close with over the years, and who does a lot of his own work, and then would post videos for them or write articles for them. Outreach Judaism, Moshe Shulman, in terms of organizations, there's more independent rabbis doing things. The one that would be the most aggressive, though, and has made the most noise online would be Rabbi Tovia Singer, and so he is his organization, basically. It's him. And what set Tovia apart over the years is his aggressive targeting of gentile Christians, as if he's going to win some kind of successful war against Christianity.

I always feel terrible when I hear him. Someone sent me a video to look at, and he's making these claims like, yeah, all these people are leaving Christianity, and how it's being defeated. You actually think you're going to defeat the gospel, Tovia? But because he's been so aggressive, constantly posting videos, I'll see them come up in my feed, and because he changed from your typical counter missionary, who will say, hey, if you're a gentile and a Christian, that's fine, and if you're a gentile and a Muslim, that's fine, but Tovia has aggressively gone after gentile Christians. Some would argue it's for funding, you know, getting these people behind his organization.

Whatever the motivation, he's been very aggressive with that for years. So now, those of us who are Jewish believers, we're used to his arguments, and they're easily refuted. I mean, there's a reason he won't debate me and other Jewish-believing leaders, et cetera. It's easily refuted, but your average gentile Christian has never encountered this stuff. So when he's attacking Paul, when he's attacking the reliability of the gospels, he's attacking other stuff, it can be a little unnerving. So thankfully, we have a whole series of videos we've been putting out, probably about a dozen out so far, where we just take his stuff and debunk it one video at a time, highlighting some of the worst errors that are out there.

And we'll hear from folks who lost their faith watching his videos and now have come back to the faith. But Tovia would be the most aggressive, the loudest, in that sense, doing damage. But of course, not to those who are sound and grounded, to those who can be picked off. All right, so you're part two, sir.

Sure, as a quick follow-up to that. So of those organizations or those you've debated, in terms of being the most formidable, perhaps even in regard to integrity, in regard to their engagement with Scripture, who would you suggest has filled with that? It would be individuals, not organizations. It would be Rabbi Yisrael Blumenthal, and it would be Rabbi Moshe Shulman. So I've spent many, many hours interacting with both of them, and in some cases, face-to-face interaction, you know, even at their homes, met, or in other places, et cetera. So those would be the two that I would consider to have the most integrity in my dealing with them.

You know, Tovia, I'd put it the least. Jews for Judaism, I think, has integrity just different, and I think many of the arguments could be weaker. But Yisrael Blumenthal, we've interacted at great length. He's a brilliant man. He's a serious student of Scripture, and of course, massively fluent in rabbinic literature. And I think our interaction has been really excellent. I think the things we've gone back and forth with in video and writing have been fruitful and really help people seek the truth together. And then Rabbi Moshe Shulman, that would be the other. He's done some really good analysis of rabbinic sources and things like that. Of course, I have profound differences with him, but I would put him high on the list.

I respect them in the midst of our differences. And I've engaged with your countermissionary materials also, the answers to objections. Have you taught a series or a class? I know you have with the countermissionary material, but with the answers to objections, is there a series or class that you offer? Yes, so there's the 22-hour Countering the Countermissionary series with a study guide.

So there's a lot of parallel and overlap. But the one that would go even more hand-in-hand with my five volumes of answering Jewish objections to Jesus is actually free on our YouTube channel. So if you go to AskDrBrown on YouTube, you should be able to search for groupings of videos. And I'm not sure if it's under answering objections.

I'll see if I can find it during the break. But it is 32 30-minute lectures on answering Jewish objections to Jesus, where we go through that fairly systematically, and it's free for anyone to take. And then, of course, the fullness is in the five volumes of answering Jewish objections to Jesus. But, yeah, we do have that, and it should be very helpful. And everybody, just to say this in general, if you go to realmessiah.com, that's our Jewish outreach site, realmessiah.com. And you could scroll down there, and you'll find, okay, here are answers to the top 100 questions.

So that's in shorter form written or video form. Here's our refutation of Counter-Missionary Rabbi Tovia Singer. Here are full-length debates that you can watch, et cetera, et cetera. So that's all at realmessiah.com. But, Robert, check out on the website AskDrBrown, excuse me, the YouTube channel AskDrBrown.

Check that out, and you'll see the 32-lecture series absolutely free. Hey, keep up the good work, keep studying, learning, and let's keep praying for the salvation of the Jewish people. The Jewish New Year begins tonight, the night of hours.

The Jewish New Year begins. Let's pray for a few seconds. This is how we rise, oh, it's our resistance, you can't resist us. Chronic inflammation is the greatest health threat to humanity. Infections, injuries, toxins, poor diet, and chronic stress can attack your immune system and lead to chronic inflammation.

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Click on donate, monthly support. All right. Let us go over to San Antonio, Texas. Mike, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown. How are you doing?

I'm doing very well. Thank you, sir. Thank you for taking my call. I called for a second time. I didn't get a chance to call. So I have a comment and then a question that comes with the comment. And so this is in regards to the discussion, I believe it was Tuesday, about our secular universities on the verge of collapse.

And so I know I didn't get a chance to call in that time. So I kind of just wanted to ask you a question about a comment and ask a question about it this time. So I know then you asked everyone where they went to school.

And then kind of as I won't go all into where I got everything about my experience, unless you ask it. So I went I'm a graduate of Mega Evers College in Brooklyn and Andrews University in Varian Springs, Michigan. OK, so I guess the one I guess would be considered secular, the other one, Christian University or a university, a religious university, I should say that.

Not a Christian one. But so my my my my comment is to you said early on when you when you open the conversation, you said well over 200 of our first 225 universities in America were founded with the explicit purpose of training people for Christian ministry and then expanded to train the general public to be good Christians wherever they go. And you cited Harvard and just one of the examples in Harvard, of course, was founded in 1636. Now, given the history of the particular institution like Harvard, especially as it relates to slavery, having had slaves on the campus, having had professors who promoted slavery, the institution of slavery, etc. And in fact, Harvard didn't allow black people to go into their schools until the 1800s. So with the context and many other of those two hundred and twenty five universities, you talked about historically American universities had that similar history. So my question to that is, is given that context and given what we know in scripture, Matthew 15, a their heart speak with me, but well, their mouth speak of me, their heart. So far from the Matthew 715, you know them by their fruits, given given that context, would these be considered?

Why would we consider these Christian universities? And so my my answer that would be wouldn't wouldn't we already consider those having been secular universities from their origin? Yeah. And yes, they were. Yes.

So so here here's the answer. They were definitely not secular because they were they were Bible based. They had a philosophy that was biblical in many ways. You had to be living a certain Christian lifestyle. You had to have certain beliefs. So they certainly weren't secular. Now, the question is, were they hypocritical?

So here's here's the issue. Of course, it was wrong. It's shameful. It's it's part of a shameful legacy in American history.

A hundred percent. There's no downplaying that. The thing that is it's important to understand is that everybody did this. In other words, slavery was a way of life in the British Empire. Slavery was a way of life in many parts of the world. And John Newton, after he got radically born again, after horrific suffering, after he got radically born again, he was still a captain of a slave ship.

Of course, he became a very, very powerful abolitionist and really fought to outlaw slavery. But he basically said that everybody did it. And there was you didn't even think to question whether it was right or wrong. One of my colleagues was going to hold meetings in Detroit and he's a strong pro-life advocate and he was speaking at a church. And to his shock, he found out that the church happened to be an African-American church, had just received an offering to help a woman in the church get an abortion, a young woman in the church get an abortion. He was beyond appalled.

But it was it was a massive, blind spot there. And, you know, we look at that like, how is that even possible? So you hear the origin of the Southern Baptists.

I don't know how familiar you are with that. But why did the Southern Baptists break away from the Northern Baptists so they could keep their slaves? That's the origin of the Southern Baptists.

All four, I believe was four founders of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary were slaveholders and justified it scripturally. So this is here's here's the so 100 percent hypocritical, unjustifiable period. I'm not downplaying it. I'm not minimizing. I'm not saying, oh, no big deal.

It's it's it's an ugly, ugly blemish. The scary thing is and this is what I come away with. What blind spots do we have?

What what things might we be doing today? And thinking they're perfectly fine because it's just what's in the culture around us. And in God's sight, it's sinful so that they definitely were not secular. And there were.

And this is so, again, especially for an African-American thing. How could these people have possibly been Christians? And yet there were definitely Christians with Christian conviction. And with this hard practice now, most did not know everything involved in the slave trade in the middle passage and the horrors of that.

And someone they found out about it became abolitionists. But the takeaway for me, Mike, is where are there blind spots in the church today in America? What things are we completely missing? And the only way I think we can get to the root of it, sir, is with honest, probing conversations, where we make each other feel uncomfortable and we challenge each each other. And of course, you're not challenging me.

You're asking a totally legitimate question. But yeah, you're you're your point is is well taken, except they were never secular. They have definitely shifted in a worldview and a mentality. And I've got a break coming up, so let me just finish this.

They went from a Christian worldview and base, aside from these hypocritical areas, these blind spots and strongholds, to a shift that became very secular and radically left in a respective way. Thank you, sir, for the call. I really appreciate it. Hey, friends, Dr. Michael Brown here. Do you remember when people thought I was crazy when I said it's not too late for America, that God can still do something in our country, that there is going to be a pushback, a gospel based moral and cultural revolution? And you remember when people thought that you were crazy because you felt the same way, because you believe what I was saying and already felt it in your heart? Well, friends, that pushback is here. The gospel based moral and cultural revolution we've been talking about for twenty five years is unfolding. And we are right in the thick of it.

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Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire. So immediately after the broadcast, I head over to Frisco, Texas, to speak at Gathering of the Nations, a special worship Israel church conference. And straight from there to the airport to fly over to Corpus Christi and to be with New Life Church this weekend. They've been in a wonderful outpouring of the spirit for several years, baptizing, I think, a thousand or more every year, having outpouring on the college campus, the Texas A&M campus at Corpus Christi.

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Ask Dr. Brown dot org. Let us go over to the Dominican Republic. Francis, welcome to the line of fire. Hello. Hi. Go ahead. I recently bought your book, answering your objections to Jesus, volume three. OK. I haven't read it yet.

I just wanted to tell you that. But the question is, in Deuteronomy 21, 23, I think. OK. First is anyone who is hung on a tree. So my question regarding that is Paul quotes that on Galatians 3 13. And I'm just a little confused because Jesus is God. So he put down the law. And how can he be cursed by the law that he put by that he himself put? And if he is cursed, does that mean that like he sinned or something like I'm just confused over that.

Yes. So so to be cursed. So obviously this is an ugly wrong thing. So someone would be killed. And then after killed, hung up on a tree, it was the ultimate way of exposing someone.

It was it was utterly shameful. So that would indicate that they were cursed, that they were that they were rejected. And under the judgment of God. So the son of God comes into this world and fully takes on human flesh.

He was 100 percent man. He was 100 percent God. And because God is Father, Son and Spirit, God is complex in his unity. He can sit on his throne in heaven.

He can fill the universe with his presence and he can walk among us in the person of his son. So Jesus took on his own shoulders what we deserve. We deserve the curse. We deserve judgment.

We deserve rejection and alienation. So by hanging on the cross, he became the symbol of that. He became the public symbol of our shame, our rejection, our coming under divine judgment. It says he himself took our sins in his body on the tree, that we being dead to sin should live to righteousness.

He carries that. Isaiah 53 speaks of this very thing right within the Tanakh, right within the Hebrew Bible. Isaiah 53 6, all of us like sheep have gone astray. Each one has turned to his own way and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. And then it ends the chapter by saying he was numbered with the transgressors and he bore the sins of many. So he took our punishment.

Isaiah 53 says it pleased the Lord to bruise him. So the punishment that was due us, the curse that was due us, fell on him. So he never sinned.

He himself is never unclean. But he took the punishment and this was the symbol of it hanging on the cross and the most shameful public death which Paul then applies to hanging on a tree and being cursed. I just don't quite understand how God can be cursed since he is God. I don't understand the incarnation but I just don't get how he can be cursed. Does the Bible say that God never sleeps nor slumbers?

No, I know, I know, I know. But I just don't understand why someone would be cursed over being hung on a tree. Like, why would he be cursed? Oh, okay.

So let me back up again. Hanging on the tree was the sign of being cursed. In other words, that was the outward sign of being rejected and suffering a terrible punishment. So Jesus takes that on. He suffers the terrible punishment that we deserve. So that's the consequence of him bearing our sins. If he is a full human being who is now taking our place, he can do that. He is the last Adam and he's taking our place. So he himself, just like the Bible says God doesn't sleep or slumber but Jesus slept and slumbered. God's not hungry but Jesus got hungry so he was fully human.

And as a fully human being he could fully take our punishment that we deserved as a human being. And to do so was to suffer the curse that we deserved. Oh, so being hung on a tree does not curse you but what you did before being hung on a tree is what curses you? Right, that is the symbol of being cursed.

That's the sign of being cursed. Oh, okay. Got it. I get it now.

Thank you. I could answer more easily if I understood better. Right, exactly. And so that is the sign. The person who did evil, now that's the public sign of being cursed by God. Hey, thank you for the question.

It's a great question. I appreciate it. Alright, so my five-volume series on answering Jewish objections to Jesus.

Volume 1 deals with general and historical objections, volume 2 theological objections, volume 3 messianic prophecy objections, volume 4 objections based on the New Testament, volume 5 objections based on traditional Judaism. Alright, with that let's go over to Justin, not far from me, in Dallas. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, God bless you brother. Bless you.

Thank you for having me. My question is about, sticking with the topic we were talking about earlier, Exodus 21, the opening verses. I've always struggled with how to square the morality behind those verses. So it's not even necessarily the slavery part that's an issue, but that the children who are born become slaves themselves. I just have a hard time, you know, I guess squaring the morality of that. Maybe feed off some insight.

Sure thing. So the first thing that's really striking is immediately after the Ten Commandments. That's the very first thing that comes up. And we often look at it as a negative, but in the ancient world, in Israel's world, it could have well been as a positive. In other words, God's saying, you're not going to do slavery the way the nations do it. We're going to have a different system, a much more humanitarian, humane system. So that's the first thing.

It's more of a contrast than a negative. The second thing is, it's the only practical thing. If you are there in servitude and your children are raised in that, they're raised by you in servitude. It was more of a practical reality, but it's not the ideal. In other words, just like, there are certain things that are accommodations, like the king not having too many wives. Well, the ideal is one life, one life only.

And Jesus addresses this in Matthew 19, saying that God's intent from the beginning was one man, one woman, united together for life. And that divorce was just a concession because of the hardness of hearts. So this is still something under the Sinai Covenant, which was not perfect. It was better than other situations. It was pragmatic. It was a helpful way to deal with things. And of course, there were ways for the children of slaves to become free.

Right. I guess the thing specifically is that it was, you know, and like I said, I'm a Christian myself, but that it was mandated by God in those particular verses that the children would be born into slavery, that they, specifically, the children born would not be free. I guess that's the part that I just like, I don't understand why it would be that way. If your parents are indentured servants or slaves, they're the ones raising you. You're raised within that household and setting. And that's, in other words, that's the reality. It's not that they're just going to walk away, etc.

But it's not, none of this is ideal. It was just pragmatic. It was pragmatic and it was part of, a lot of change happens over a course of centuries. And even in the situation then, this was a way for people to survive.

And you had guidelines in terms of how everyone had to be treated, etc. But there was no situation where, and then remember, in the Jubilee year, even those that were indentured servants would still go free. So there was no system in Israel where you would have multiple, multiple generations of slaves.

Because the Jubilee would end up setting them free. So a follow-up question with that would be, the Jubilee only applies to the Hebrews, correct? Yes. So there would still be lifetime slavery for foreigners, if I'm not mistaken? Potentially.

Potentially. But it's only addressed briefly in Leviticus and it's not really outlined clearly there. But ultimately what we know, what happened through history, is that these people just took on different jobs within Israel.

That the peoples that were conquered, like the Gibeonites, ended up just taking up jobs within Israel and becoming part of the larger people of Israel. So you never had a situation that actually went on. It's not recorded anywhere in scripture, historically, where you had multiple generations of slaves, like the horrible slave trade we had in America or in other nations, where you were born a slave and your kids are born a slave and kids are born a slave. That never happened. There's no example of that. And again, the primary, the vast majority of those involved would have been Hebrews, and then the Jubilee would set them free. So it would never be multiple generations in that regard. And whatever shortcomings remain, it was still part of the Sinai Covenant, and we are no longer under that.

There's something new and better. So anyway, hey, thank you, sir, for the call and the very fair questions. I appreciate it.

I think it's best just to deal with them as honestly as we can. 866-348-7884. Let's go to Salola in Sharpsburg, Georgia. Welcome to the line of fire. How are you doing, sir? Doing very well.

Awesome. My question is how to answer Mosley on 2 Kings Chapter 8, verse 26, and a similar one with 2 Chronicles 22. That talks about, I think his name is Zias, not pronouncing it well, his age. One said the age was, the one in Kings said the age was 22. And the other says 42. All right, I'll answer it on the other side of the break.

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As a new customer introductory offer, use promo code BROWN25 for a 25% discount on your purchase of Nopalaya. And 100% of your first order will go to the support of Line of Fire. Go to Trivita.com or call 800-771-5584. Again, 800-771-5584. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-344-TRUTH. Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. Trivita, thanks for standing with us. Thanks for helping us get on so many new stations and reach so many new people. If you've not checked out Trivita and you're interested in improving your own wellness, then I would encourage you to call 800-771-5584. It's a free call. You ask the questions you want to ask, you'll get some great recommendations.

So if you're interested in improving your own wellness during the wellness revolution, you can call 800-771-5584. Okay, so let's go back to Samlola. So the 2 Kings 826 mentions the age of Ahaziah or Ahaziah at 22 years old. And then the Hebrew in 2 Chronicles references the age of 42. However, we have other ancient versions.

The situation's Greek. The Syriac, the Peshitta say 22. They agree with that.

So the short answer, there's some background noise here, so you won't be able to talk to me, but you can hear me. The short answer to a Muslim is, contrary to Islam, where all of the different variations of the Quran were gathered together by the Third Caliph and burned up, because there were endless variations of the traditions, they were all destroyed, that the variations have been preserved in thousands and thousands of manuscripts. And this way we can see if there was a scribal error in one place, that 42 is written instead of 22, that it gets corrected in another place. So we have tons of evidence that help us realize, oh, this was a scribal error here, and because the original is perfect, but even transmission is imperfect. Now what's interesting is that some ancient copies of the Quran are found like in Yemen some years back.

They find all the scribal errors there. There's a whole book a colleague sent me recently that details errors in Quranic transmission. So your average Muslim doesn't know they exist. Your average Muslim thinks the Quran was given directly by God to Muhammad.

It's perfectly preserved in heaven. We have the exact replica here on earth, and every Quran version agrees letter for letter, syllable for syllable. But number one, it's only because all the endless numbers of other variants, the oral then put in writing, then all the variants destroyed, burned up, so now you just have the one, and then even there you have errors of transmission and copying. So it's just a simple scribal error, and we have the more accurate reading in the Septuagint and the Syriac.

So that's why many English translations just have 22 years in both places, because that's the best reading. So you tell a Muslim, contrary to Islam which tried to destroy all the variants, God's allowed them to be preserved. For us, this way we can sift through and see the most accurate readings and say to the Muslim, what do you do when you find out that you have all these other variants that you've tried to suppress? What does it do to your faith?

It actually makes it very tenuous for them because they've said it has to be letter for letter, perfectly preserved, or it's not true, and yet that's not the case with the Quran either. Hey, thank you very much for your question. Yep, you are welcome. All right, let us go over to Newport, Virginia.

Dan, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, thank you. Hear me okay? You're welcome.

Yes, I can. Okay, good. Well, I referred to you many times in my sermon, so your ministry has blessed me through the years.

Well, thanks. So you pastor congregation? I am a pastor, yes. How long have you been pastoring?

About 15 years. And what is your state of mind now? Are you encouraged by what you're seeing?

Are you discouraged? I've been sharing on the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives for the past probably five months or so, and been very encouraged. Excellent, excellent. Well, I'm so glad to hear it.

Glad we can be a resource for you. Go ahead, sir. Yeah, my question was about healing. Have you ever heard of G.C. Bevington or Lillian Yeomans in your time?

Sure. Yeah, they both were very much advocates of divine healing. I believe in divine healing. We preach it, we pray for people. I guess my question is, is because both of those folks, that sister and brother, you know, their books are very much, you hang in there until you get the healing, you know.

I guess my question would be, at what point do you say, well, I might need some help from a doctor? Right. So Lillian Yeomans himself was a doctor. She was a heroin addict.

God sets her free. If I recall from a verse from Job 33, I found the ransom. Some of the early pioneers went to extremes. And also medical science then was less advanced than today. But they would go to extremes that Jesus is the great physician and the woman with the issue of blood spent all she had on doctors and didn't help. And King Asa died because he went to the doctors instead of to God. So they would take certain verses and extrapolate things from them and go too far.

But you understand sometimes when you're breaking away from something and changing mindsets, you know, the pendulum swings too far before it gets back to the middle. I recognize that even scripturally God has given medical science. There's interesting passage in Exodus where if you fight, you hurt somebody, you know, die. You have to see that they're thoroughly healed, which is paraphrased in some of the ancient versions to say pay for their medical expenses. I remember the end of Jeremiah 8. Is there no bomb and give it out?

Is there no physician there? So there were things that were done even in the ancient world. And for example, if you're playing sports and you break a leg, well, you can pray on the way to the emergency room for a miracle. But otherwise, you're okay.

That's something. Right. And especially when probably more than 90 percent of the diseases and sicknesses we bring on ourselves in America or because of our bad diet, that it's, you know, they just expect a miracle all the time. It's not always reasonable.

But what I would do is be very practical. You know, there's some folks that really have a strong emphasis on healing. Their policy is if there's an emergence like someone faints. Right. They say call 911 and then pray.

That's the order. Call 911 and pray. So what I would do is I would ask God for healing. I would if I felt that I was in a good frame of mind to believe for it. And if I didn't see healing, then I would go get checked out to see what's going on. If if I was not in the frame of mind where I really felt I'm strong in faith, I'm confident. I know I'm in a place to pray a prayer of faith.

Then I would have no hesitation going to a doctor, getting checked out. And most of the miracles in scripture would be for incurable illnesses. Someone that someone that needed some kind of miracle or that was going to die as opposed to I have a headache or things like that.

You know, when I first got started, I just thought any time you're sick at all, you just call for the pastor to pray, you know, I have a cold, you know, that that's not really what what the Bible speaking about. Now, sometimes God does those things just as a sign right to heal. But the vast majority of healing that takes place on a daily basis in a country like America is through medical science is is through the knowledge that we have. And then the miraculous is is for God to do and others, according to their faith. I know friends that it's just not in a suicidal way, but they just don't go to doctors, take medicine and they believe and they get healed and they walk on. And if there's something serious and not healed, no problem.

Go doctors. There's no compromise. There's no unbelief in doing that. It's part of what God's given us. So in other words, if if you believe in for something that's not life threatening, but you believe in God for something that will, you know, would there be a point where you'd say, well, it doesn't look like this is going to happen in this way?

Maybe I should seek some help. Right. So if you if you're in a situation where it's no issue, in other words, you have a growth on your arm that you would rather not have there, but it's not hurting you. It's not it's not cancerous.

Right. You might say for five years, I'm just going to believe for that growth to go. It's like your little faith test. But if it's something that that is getting worse or something that is a hindrance and stopping you from functioning well, or it could develop into something, then if I didn't see the breakthrough, I would immediately go and get checked out.

I would immediately see what what medical help there could be. So it's more pragmatic. In other words, there's nothing explicit in scripture.

So it's going to be perfect. So I have some friends that have had issues and it's just like maybe a little disfiguring thing and a part of their body that only they're aware. You know, it's under their clothes that only they're aware of it. And they're just still praying for healing, believing for healing, for a breakthrough. But there's no problem. There is no threat. There's no right.

It's not life threatening. Right. And it doesn't stop them from functioning and doing everything they do. And for them, it's just, hey, I want to pray and I want to believe. And I know some folks that it took a long time and and God answered. And in other cases, like immediately, if there was anything that was potentially life threatening or they could get worse or that you're playing with fire immediately, you if there is not an immediate breakthrough, then you go and you get whatever help you can get. So a lot of it is really just this pragmatism, just like you're counseling, you know, a couple financially and they're giving certain amounts and so on. And OK, with their fault, they can't pay other bills, but they want to they want to give 30 percent to the Lord. It's like, OK, well, it's if you really have faith for that and then right then your ship is not going to sink. But if it's taking on water and it's taking on more water every month, let's step back from this.

Maybe if you're a little too ambitious here. So it's the same kind of pragmatism. And often when it comes to the spirit, we're so black and white, we're either all in or not in at all that we forget it's like everything else. It's the work of the spirit through human beings.

And there's pragmatism in the process. Hey, we are just about out of time, but thank you, sir, for the call. And thank you to be a resource and blessing to you. As always, I wish I could touch everybody, but we've got more time in the days ahead. There's a blessing and smiling favor got upon you. It's not so hard. Happy New Year. Another program powered by the Truth Network.