My Loyalty Is to Jesus Not to a Politician or Party

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My entire loyalty is to the Lord, not to a political party, not to a political candidate. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

To be with you, the number where you get to weigh in, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87884. At the bottom of the hour, we're going to have a fascinating interview on a book about the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament. Is that the Son of God?

Is that Yeshua, Jesus, appearing as an angel in the Old Testament? Fascinating discussion at the bottom of the hour. But the first half of the broadcast, we're going to continue to talk about the Gospel and politics. So, let me shout this out as loudly and clearly as I can to every single one who hears these words.

Whether you're Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, whether you're Independent, whether you vote or don't vote, whether you're an American or someone from outside of America, I want to shout this out as loudly and clearly as I can, regardless of who is in the White House right now. My loyalty is to the Lord. Only Jesus died for me.

Only Jesus is God in the flesh. Only Jesus gave himself for my sins and my evil deeds. Only he paid the price that could be paid and had to be paid. Only he transformed me from sinner to child of God. Only he took me from the kingdom of Satan into the kingdom of God. Only he forgave me and washed me and cleansed me and all my loyalty and allegiance to my last breath belongs to him.

To the glory of God the Father. And I voted for Donald Trump. And before that I voted for George Bush or I voted for whatever other candidates.

Okay, that's what I want to shout out to the whole world. And yes, I didn't vote for Joe Biden. He is my president. You didn't vote for Donald Trump. He was your president.

That's the way it works in America. But the message I want to shout out, even as someone who voted for Trump twice in 2016 and 2020, and as someone who defended him when I felt he should be defended against wrong and false attacks, and of course often said, here's where I differ, where I don't like his character, et cetera. I always said that. As someone who voted for him and supported him, I also wrote a book called Donald Trump is Not My Savior. That's the message I wanted to shout out to the world. When I was before media, secular media, whatever, that's the message I wanted to shout out to the world always.

There's one savior, one Lord, my life, my breath belongs to him. If you're going to hate me, if you're going to reject me, reject me and hate me because of that. And because of the moral stance I take because of that. And here for pragmatic reasons when it comes to politics, why I voted for Donald Trump versus Joe Biden, why I voted for Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton. Happy to explain that. But we're talking different universes.

We're talking completely different levels of loyalty and commitment and dedication and solidarity. Now, why do I bring this up? Well, it's always relevant because politics is always a hot subject and things are only going to get hotter from here until November 2024.

And it's my goal and my role and my calling is your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity to help us keep our bearings in the midst of this and as believers with different perspectives. For example, when it comes to voting, the first thing I always look at is pro-life issues, abortion-related issues. It could be Supreme Court justices. It could be other things like that. That's always the first thing I look at. The first thing you may look at may be education or economy or national security or race issues. For someone else, it's going to be another factor. We will have our different perspectives in terms of how we vote. But if we are truly followers of Jesus, then what we must display to the world is our unity around him. And the differences we have on other subjects are secondary to that unity. Instead, what we often shout to the world is our differences about secondary things, which makes us seem disunified about Jesus. And I know the differences can be deep. I get that.

Trust me, I get it. Look, I've had folks call in the show in the past, maybe you're one of the callers, and say there's no way you can be a Christian and vote for Donald Trump to be followed by a caller who says there's no way you can be a Christian and not vote for Donald Trump. So I understand the divisiveness of the issues, but let's make our message clear. Okay, so yesterday I played a clip from President Trump. If you've listened regularly, if you read my articles regularly, you know I've said very little politically, always talking about culture, et cetera. But I've said very little politically for months. I've said almost nothing about Trump. I've said almost nothing about Biden. I've tried to be constructive in my comments in terms of what can we learn redemptively about what's happening, how should we respond to things that are happening around us while keeping our gospel perspective. But if you've listened to any regularity, read my articles with any regularity, you know what I'm telling you is the truth.

Well, when there's something newsworthy that comes up that I feel I should comment on, I will. So President Trump on national news, news show this past weekend, and is asked flat out about abortion and says basically he'd want the number of people seem to like and agree on Democrats, Republicans, like 15 weeks. He'd consider a ban on abortion after 15 weeks. He wasn't guaranteeing he'd sign up to consider it, and everyone would like him for it, et cetera. But what Governor DeSantis did, signing into law a ban on abortion after six weeks was, quote, a terrible mistake.

So I took exception to that because my loyalty is to the Lord and to these righteous causes as much as I deeply appreciate what President Trump did for pro-life with appointing three justices that helped overturn Roe v. Wade, historic mess. Have I mentioned that yesterday? For some, that's not enough. Now, again, this is a fringe comment.

Well, I don't know how fringe it is. Maybe a lot of people feel this way. But it's the kind of comment that's inappropriate on our social media because we just don't allow people engaging in personal attacks like this. And if we happen to spot it, because there are thousands of comments that come in, but if we haven't spot it, we'll delete things like this.

But we screenshot it first. So here's what someone wrote to me after my comments yesterday. Shame on you, Mr. Brown, for not remaining loyal to Trump. Trump was cheated, and you were looking for better candidates?

You profess to stand for life but can't even stand up for the man who overturned abortion and was cheated? Repent! Stop being jealous. Deep down, you know Trump is smarter than you and it drives you nuts. Repent! You think you can do a better job?

Admit it! But you can't. He is tougher and smarter. Trump has to get done with his realistic because he is involved in politics.

He's not your pastor. If you love truth, you would love realism because they are the same. So you put aside the childish little attacks there. You wonder, why do people have to do that?

Why do they have to not just think nonsense but spew nonsense in terms of judging other people? Put all that aside. I don't owe anything to Donald Trump or the political party or any other political leader if they move from a position. If you stay with your position, then I'll do my best to stay with you. If you move from that position, my loyalty is to the position, not to the person.

It's one thing interpersonally where we're just dealing with friends and relationships and so on. I'm tremendously loyal as a person. I get in trouble all the time because I'm loyal to friends and colleagues. We may have differences but I'll sit and talk with them privately. But I'm a loyal friend and they're friends who are loyal to me which I deeply appreciate.

But I don't feel I have to be loyal to somebody. Look, he didn't overturn abortion. He helped overturn Roe v. Wade but the whole reason he overturned Roe v. Wade was so that the states could make these decisions and governors could sign these into law. That's the whole reason we wanted it overturned.

So now call it a terrible mistake. I'm going to take exception to that. My loyalty is to the Lord and to righteous positions. On a personal level, I'll be loyal. On a personal level, I'll have your back. But when it comes to voting on political issues, that's what matters, the issue. That's what matters.

Here, another example. For me, I'm not saying these are God's priorities but for me, my priorities first I look at where a candidate stands on pro-life issues. It's just like in my view during the days of slavery, that had to be the number one issue.

It didn't matter where they stood on other things. If they were pro-slavery, I couldn't vote for them. So same way, I don't care how many other issues there are. If the candidate is strongly pro-abortion, I can't vote for them. If it meant not voting at all between choices, I wouldn't vote.

It's that simple. The next issue for me is where someone stands on LGBTQ issues. I care about every human being. Every human being is valuable in the sight of God.

Jesus died for every single one of us the same way. And there are plenty of fine citizens in America, hardworking, loving families and all that, who identify as LGBTQs around the spectrum. I acknowledge that, but I absolutely oppose the goals of activism. I do not recognize same-sex marriage being valid in God's sight.

I believe trans activism is totally destructive for our country, especially for our children these days. So where a candidate stands on that is important to me. Now, President Trump was a mixed bag on that. There were gay activists who said he was the worst president in history. There were others who said he was the best, in terms of, quote, gay rights, et cetera. And again, he's been mixed.

Yeah, Caitlyn Jenner, sure, if she wants to use the ladies room, she can, but he's against transitioning children. All right. So here's a major gala event at Mar-a-Lago in December of last year. Just look it up for yourself. It happened. The major gathering of gay activists and their allies, gay Republicans, et cetera. And former President Trump said this, and I quote, We are fighting for the gay community and we are fighting and fighting hard. With the help of the many people here tonight in recent years, our movement has taken incredible strides.

The strides you've made here is incredible. OK. I can't vote for someone who says that.

Simple. I am firmly convinced that the LGBTQ activist causes are harmful to America. Yes, treat everyone fairly and kindly. And yes, to the extent people are just living their lives, let them live their lives.

If they're not imposing an agenda on someone else, by all means. And where the church has treated those who identify as gay or bi or trans is the worst of sinners. Let's let's let's repent of our mistreatment and recognize our common need for a savior by all means. Absolutely. And where we've had blind spots, let's be educated on those things. And let's again treat one another with with love and grace in the midst of our deep differences. But I felt since 2004 that gay activism is the principal threat to freedom of religion, speech and conscience in America.

And trans activism is destroying the lives of many children. So when when I hear former President Trump say those things, no, I he doesn't get my vote. It's it's simple.

This is very simple. I don't care who the person is. I'm standing with the Lord and from my understanding causes that are important to him or at the least causes that he's laid on my heart that should be important. And if the candidate, whoever they were, whatever they've done, moves from those causes, well, then they've moved. I'm standing in the same place.

They've moved. My loyalty is to the Lord. That's that's the bottom line. And I would hope I would hope you have the exact same perspective, whoever your candidate is. I would hope whoever you are, that your your perspective is. I'm going to be loyal to the Lord and what I feel is important in the site. And if the candidate moves from there, the candidates move.

I haven't moved either way. But I want to shout out again, regardless of where you stand on who you vote for. My loyalty, I want you to hear this last one for me.

My loyalty is to Jesus. Period. And it's up there. That's it.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. Hey, feel free to call in and differ with me.

866-348-784. I'm not taking random Bible questions or theology questions today. Feel free to weigh in. Feel free to say, hey, I agree with you. Or I think you're wrong and here is why. Or I think you're missing something and here is why.

I'm happy to differ. All right? And maybe I can persuade you of something. Maybe you can persuade me or our listeners.

866-344-TRUTH. All right. This is sad but encouraging. Sad that it had happened, but encouraging that it did.

Check this out. I'm reading a headline from yesterday on the Fox News website. Pennsylvania high school students organized walkout to protest trans bathroom rules. Quote, compromised our rights.

Okay. So according to the story, hundreds of students from Pennsylvania's Perkiomen Valley School District worked out of class Friday after the local school board failed to enact a policy regarding requiring transgender students to use the restroom corresponding with their biological sex. Kids were upset. Girls wanted to protect them. They were upset.

They didn't want men in their bathroom, said John Ott, who organized the workout. His mother, Stephanie, accused the district of only protecting transgender students and not looking at the, quote, whole picture. The safety of females is so important. And these students that stood out that walked out there to be commended. They have courage and they exercise their First Amendment rights. This is about protecting our children and our privacy and boys and girls.

It's simple biology. Yes, 100 percent. Absolutely true. Shame on the school board for not thinking of all the children. Shame on the school board for putting the perceived needs of a tiny minority of the student body over the absolute needs of the rest of the student body.

What I say perceived needs. There's no question that there are children, very, very tiny percentage. There are children who from their earliest years struggle with the sense of being in the wrong body. And there are people who through their entire lives have struggled with this, agonized over it. And for them, some type of, quote, sex change was the path to mental and emotional wholeness.

I'm not denying that such people exist. Of course, I always say that the solution that we should be looking for is to how to help them from the inside out. The idea of, say, a trans friendly doctor would be, look, we understand the issue is in their brain, but we can't change their brain. We've tried, but we can change their body. Well, isn't logic the best approach? Let's keep working on trying to help them from the inside out, help the brain, right?

Or whatever spiritually is going on, help them there. But I'm not denying that there's a tiny minority of people who struggle with this for many years and some beginning in their childhood. I'm not denying that. We do know that the vast majority of such people, once they go through puberty, will no longer identify as trans and many will actually identify as gay. And gay activists say, hey, you're mutilating gay kids who think they're trans.

That's not even the issue. But putting that aside, we're quite aware of the phenomenon of sociological contagion. We're quite aware of the phenomenon whereby whole groups of kids are identifying as trans. Coming out as trans together, it is a sociological contagion. It is a cultural phenomenon. It is something that can be psychologically explained and behind the scenes, I would say, spiritually explained. There's a kind of mass deception. And the vast majority of those who are going to identify as trans for a period of time don't really have any deep roots. It is a cultural thing. It is something that's going on. It's a pushing back against the status quo. It's a way of trying to figure out why I don't feel at home in my body, especially as a teen girl growing and developing and things like that.

These are well-interested things. And because of this, there are more and more lawsuits now that are coming out as children have gotten older and said, what in the world, why did you put me on hormone blockers? Why did you, or puberty hormone blockers, why did you put me on these things as a kid?

Why did you agree to mutilate my body and I can't fix this for life? So there's more and more pushback. The big gender clinic in England, Tavistock, has shut down. Thousands of potential lawsuits coming against them.

Many are ready and many more to come. And their gender clinics, they're even saying, yeah, kids as young as four, they were putting on hormones. You think, what? What?

What? What kind of moral and cultural insanity is this? But so the fact is the majority of kids that are going to be identified as trans and a guy wanting to use the girls' bathroom, it's not going to be some deep-seated, long-term issue they've had for years and years and years. And for some, hey, they're boys and this is a way into the girls' bathroom or locker room. You're going to say that doesn't happen at all? But either way, either way, either way, they have an issue. Let's just say it's very real and deep to them. Let's just say it's very real and deep to them, okay?

Let's say they're not putting it on, it's not sociological contagion, it's very real and deep to them. Well, then you find a way to accommodate them separately. You say, right, here's the teacher's bathroom, you can use that. Or here's a private bathroom here we'll just designate for trans people.

That's problem solved. You say, well, our school is so small and only has one bathroom for boys and girls. Well, then get a porta potty.

Do something, but don't impose the struggles of these kids and everybody else. Because you have girls that don't go to the bathroom the whole day. Because they're afraid they're going to go in there and there's going to be a boy in there. And yes, there have been actual instances of sexual abuse and rape that have taken place.

We had a predator in there. By all means, it's shameful for the school to adopt a policy that now makes everyone else in community. And then there are trans-identified kids who say, well, they've been bullied.

Okay, so then make it good for everybody. So, kudos to them for walking out. Kudos to them. May it happen all over the nation until sanity prevails. Speaking of sanity, there's a report in the New York Post from Germany, speaking of insanity, hundreds of people who identify as dogs gather in city center. A pack of dog-identifying humans has prompted calls for animal control after footage of their Berlin meet-up went viral. An estimated 1,000 people who prefer to be recognized as not humans, but canines organized a gathering at the Berlin Postemmerplatz railroad station in Germany, communicating only by howling or barking at one another. And some of them engage in what is called puppy play, which is fetishistic activity.

Let's leave it there. Among them, God knows what goes on. Okay, I don't say this to ridicule or mock. I say this to say people like this need the Lord. People like this have a real deep problem. Some of it is just a mental, emotional problem, however it manifests. Others, it is deeply rebellious and sinful. Either way, they need the Lord. But the reminder, the reminder, we're not talking about someone intersex when it comes to trans issues, someone intersex who is born with a biological or chromosomal abnormality, tiny, tiny percentage of the population, but they need compassion, understanding, and we need wisdom, parents raising kids like that. It's a very, very sensitive issue. We're not talking about that. We're talking about human beings who are fully male or fully female who identify as the other, or human beings who are fully human who identify as part canine. Hey, smart watch I have here, which has a heart monitor in it so I can do, it has my heart rate, I can even do an EKG on it.

That was developed by a learned scientist who for more than 20 years has identified as a cheetah named Spartacus. These people need the Lord. Some of them are just into some kind of weird display. Well, they need the Lord for doing something weird like that. Others that truly believe it, they need the Lord. And some really have some deep, deep psychological, emotional, spiritual needs. May the Lord touch them, may the Lord heal them, may the Lord bring them repentance, and may we hear testimonies from former furries in the years ahead. They're out there by the hundreds of thousands.

May we hear amazing testimonies of how they came into church barking and left set free by the power of God. Hey, I'm not kidding here. I mean it. It's worth that.

It's not here. This is how we rise up. Heart is beating faster. Feels like thunder.

Magic static. Call me a fanatic. It's our world. They can never have it. This is how we rise up. It's our resistance. You can't resist us.

Hey friends, Dr. Michael Brown here. Do you remember when people thought I was crazy when I said it's not too late for America? That God can still do something in our country? That there is going to be a pushback, a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution? And do you remember when people thought that you were crazy because you felt the same way?

Because you believed what I was saying and already felt it in your heart? Well friends, that pushback is here. The gospel-based moral and cultural revolution we've been talking about for 25 years is unfolding. And we are right in the thick of it.

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Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We are about to have a very fascinating and edifying interview, so stay right there.

I just want to share this with you. Literally, during the break here, so just moments ago, I got a very, very touching email from a woman working with one of the publications where our articles were published recently, gone through a terribly difficult time, suffered a terrible, terrible loss. She was thanking me for the article that we posted earlier this week, Don't Lose Your Grip in God. You can read it on our website, askdr.brown.org, as well as many other places. If you have the Ask Dr. Brown Ministries app, you can just read it there.

Just click on Read Latest Articles. And she said this, Thank you so much, Dr. Brown, for putting into words what our hearts cry out silently in the dark, when no one else but God can see or know. It assured me that as long as we hold on to Jesus and do not lose our grip in Him, He will make our way through this. He will turn our ashes to beauty.

He will. Friends, that's so meaningful, because that's why we do what we do. And when we seek to serve as your voice, that's the goal, to articulate what you're going through and to articulate what the Lord is saying so that together we can say amen to it.

I got off the phone earlier with a gentleman now working as a producer with a major Jewish outreach ministry, and he wanted me to know how some of my materials played a pivotal role in his life when he was struggling with issues of the deity of Yeshua and being influenced by Orthodox Jewish rabbis and things like that. Hey, if you're listening now, Nick, bless you. Thanks for that testimony.

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Click on Donate Monthly Support. Hey, thank you for standing with us. With that, let me go over to author and teacher Matthew Ervin. Hey, great to have you on the air today. Well, thank you, Dr. Brown.

I really do appreciate it. Well, my joy, your book that I wrote an endorsement for, The Divine Messenger, Appearances of the Son of God in the Old Testament. Boy, I mean, there's a whole lot to say about this. But first, why did you get interested in this subject?

Oh, great question. When I was a teenager, that's really when I started to get into studying the Bible, trying to understand God's Word better. And there was, you know, it seems like every town has one of those sort of more nerdy pastors. And he entered my life. And I remember during a Bible study, probably 17, maybe 18, he just says casually, and of course we know that the angel of the Lord in most appearances is the pre-incarnate Son of God.

I'm sitting here, you know, new to this, and I'm sort of like, wait, what? And he explains it to me, and I studied it, and over time I was convinced that he was true. And that led me to really digging into the Old Testament more, and the Old Testament opened up to me more, I think in large part because I can now see my Savior there. All right, so out of a love for the Lord, love for the Word, this opens up to you. The title of the book, The Divine Messenger, and folks, if you're looking it up, Erwin is spelled E-R-V-I-N, Matthew Bryce Erwin, E-R-V-I-N. The Divine Messenger. That word messenger is also the word for angel in the Hebrew Bible, malach, which means that we're going to read it in English to see the angel of the Lord and assume it's just a created being, but that would not necessarily be the first way that someone would see it or understand it in Hebrew, hence divine messenger. So, open this up for us. Who is this divine messenger? How can we recognize him? Well, whenever we of course see this angel of the Lord in our English Bibles, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's God somehow, but quite often the case when we see this being, he's introduced it to us as an angel or a messenger, as you said, but then later he's actually called Yahweh, he's called God in some way, or he does something that indicates that he is God. Alright, so let's break this down.

So, malach ha-denai, the angel of the Lord, the messenger of the Lord, it could refer to the Son of God in angelic form, or it could just be an angel, because we know there are angels that God sent out, you know, Gabriel and Michael are named. So, let's break this down. And again, friends, the book, The Divine Messenger, if you really want to dig in deep, if you've lived in Bible study, love finding Yeshua in the Old Testament, Son of God appearing, the Word made flesh, but appearing in angelic form in the Old Testament, a great study, and very readable, in-depth, but very readable. So, let's open a few of these up.

Start with your favorite and just open it up. Take a couple of minutes and open up the passage for us. Oh, I have to say my favorite is probably the last appearance, at least in the Protestant canon, and that is Zechariah 3. And it's just such a powerful depiction, because here we have the angel of the Lord appear before the high priest Joshua, and Satan is there to accuse Joshua, and Joshua is wearing these dirty clothes, and in a sense, because he's the high priest, he's the representative of the nation. And if you sort of dig into the meaning there, the idea is that Joshua can't himself get rid of these filthy clothes. But the angel of the Lord tells him that he has the clothes removed, and he tells Joshua, I have removed your iniquity.

Now, we have to ask ourselves, who can remove sin from a man, let alone a nation? Certainly no created angel. And it seems to give us a picture of the great exchange that we see later, with Christ taking upon our sin and him giving us his righteousness. We sort of have that illustration in Zechariah 3 with the angel of the Lord. All right, so in other words, you would say that this is not simply like a prophet saying, and I the Lord say to you, because it's the Lord speaking through the prophet. This is not just the Lord speaking through the angel, it's the angel speaking. Is there anything in the wording of the text that reinforces that? Yes, he's actually referred to as Yahweh in Zechariah 3.

Right. So I think that alone, you go, wait, he's a messenger of Yahweh, he's a Moloch Yahweh, but he's also Yahweh himself, messenger and God himself. Right, and which is why most interpreters say, well, the word angel is just missing there, it must have been there. But, yeah, and he speaks on behalf of God, but then as God himself. All right, let's go back to Exodus chapter 3.

So I'll ask these questions as if I don't know your position. At Exodus 3, the burning bush, the Moloch, the divine messenger, well, is it divine messenger, is that just any angel, or is that the Son of God? Well, I like to use divine only to speak of someone who has the nature of God, so I don't like to use it in the more broad sense. So, yes, I would say divine messenger would have to somehow be God, but also a messenger of God simultaneously.

All right, make the case for it, let's unpack the text, go for it. All right, Exodus 3, well if we remember the angel of the Lord, he enters the burning bush, and he starts to speak. Okay, so first, let's recognize the angel of the Lord enters this bush. Then we're told that Moses sees what appears to be a fire burning the bush.

So I would contend that's actually the glory of the Lord manifesting because God's presence is in the bush. And then he speaks forward from the bush, and what does he call himself? He calls himself the God of Israel. He says, I am that I am, and then he refers to himself as I am. Now, how can an angel say this? What business does a created angel have to say this?

So the argument would be that in fact it is not a created angel, but it is the messenger who himself is God. And we see the same thing later, of course, most famously, there's several examples, but John 8, referring to himself as I am, before Abraham was I am. So we see this idea that somehow there's a connection with Jesus using this purposely to the burning bush. Now, I know that there's some Isaiah references that strengthen this, but I think just on its face that's how Jesus' audience would have taken it. He was referring to himself as the God of the burning bush. Got it, got it.

All right, so this is the great self-disclosure. Ayeh, asher, ayeh. I am that I am, one of the ways to translate it. And from whence the name Yahweh then is revealed, and it's all this angelic being in the burning bush speaking the whole time, which is really, really striking. And yes, Moses is told to take his shoes and sandals off his feet because the place is holy.

All right, give us, we've still got a couple more minutes before our break. Again, the book by Matthew Ervin, E-R-V-I-N, The Divine Messenger. Those of you who love to dig in the Word, you will love this book.

Give me one more example. Well, you know what, let's go with, I think, what might be your favorite, if I had to guess, just having read it, Red Jewish Objections of Jesus, volume 2. Genesis 18 is a good one.

Yeah, go ahead. Well, Abraham's, of course, sitting outside his tent. Of course, Jewish tradition says he's recovering from his circumcision.

I don't know if that's true, but regardless, he's relaxing. And he looks up and three men are approaching. And at some point, it's not an entirely clear when, but he does realize that one of them is Yahweh. And it's especially notable that he offers to wash their feet and bring them food, even though one of them is God. And in fact, they do eat with Abraham.

They do sit down and eat with him. So, there's a very earthly appearance, even though the Hebrew text indisputably refers to one of them as Yahweh. Yeah, and then you have the extensive interaction between Abraham and one of the three, right? Extensive interaction where he's going back and forth to Yahweh. And then when it's done, it says Yahweh left him, right?

So, they're done talking, he leaves. And then, to get to Genesis 19 and the two angels. 1924? Well, no, no, we'll start with 1921, that the two angels, right, the two angels come to Sodom. What happened to three? Well, one was Yahweh, the other two angels. So then, yeah, 1924, where the Lord rains down sulfur and brimstone on Sodom from the Lord in heaven. All right, hey Matthew, stay through the break.

Let's get a couple more questions for you. We'll be right back. This earth feels like thunder, magic, static, call me a fanatic. It's our world, they can never have it. This is how we rise up.

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Go to triveda.com or call 800-771-5584. Again, 800-771-5584. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. All right, let me go back to Matthew. Hey, one last question for you.

It's kind of twofold. For whom did you write the book? Who's your intended audience?

And what do you hope they can get out of it? I would probably say it's the more curious layman, if that makes any sense. You don't have to be an academic, but I don't repeat myself a lot.

I don't pad the book a lot. I give you a lot of concentrated information. So it would be someone who, again, you don't have to be an academic, but you would probably like to dig into the word and take your time with it. And as you've taught on this publicly, different settings, what kind of reaction do you get?

How does it affect those that are hearing it? Oh, so many of them are just very grateful, but I've actually had people with high-level graduate degrees from seminaries contact me and say, hey, you've helped me see Jesus more clearly in the Old Testament. I had one man, very well educated, tell me that it helped him love Jesus more because he could see more of Jesus in Scripture. Excellent. And look, when Jesus said Moses wrote about me, in many, many different ways, and this is one of them, you realize, wow, there's a lot of stuff in there. Hey, Matthew, thanks for doing the work. Thanks for making it accessible.

The book, again, by Matthew Ervin, E-R-V-I-N, The Divine Messenger. Thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Thank you, Dr. Brown. Have a great day. You too.

866-342. Tell you what, I don't know how much we'll get to this, but if you have a random Bible question of any kind, random theology question of any kind, want to challenge me in any random thing, now's a great time to call in. I do plan to address some controversies regarding black Jews, Hebrew, Israelites on tomorrow's broadcast, and there have been, I don't know, four, five, six, seven, a whole bunch, I have to count, videos put out by Dante Fortson responding to me or coming against my positions, et cetera. So, I'm not giving full rebuttals to everything. If I do a video, it's 45 minutes, he does a three-hour rebuttal followed by four or five more rebuttals.

That would mean that I'll do like a ten-hour rebuttal, he'll do a 30-hour rebuttal, et cetera. But I'm going to, I think, give some insights that will be really helpful for secrets of truth, all right? I think this will be really, really helpful if you're a seeker of truth, then what we get into tomorrow will be really helpful. And if it's not a main area of interest, I think you'll find it very interesting anyway. And then we'll, being a Thoroughly Jewish Thursday, we'll talk about where we are on the Jewish calendar.

And Francis Chan sent me an amazing song that his daughter has written, the help of a family, just a gorgeous Jewish ministry song, and with his blessing and permission, it's on YouTube, but with their enthusiastic blessing and permission, him and his daughter will be playing that on the air at Thoroughly Jewish Thursday tomorrow as well, so I can't wait to share that with you. And again, for those that have followed Mr. Fortson's many videos that have come out and that think my material is a slip shot or a position is a slip shot or somebody being deceptive, I think you'll benefit from hearing from what we have to share tomorrow. All right, but let me just throw out a basic position for you. I'm a lover of truth. None of us are perfectly unbiased. None of us have no presuppositions or no background. Here, no matter how unbiased you try to be, if you grow up in the West, you're going to have a different mindset and worldview than someone growing up in the East. Or if you're a man versus a woman. Or, right, if you're a Russian versus an American.

If you're black versus white, if you're Jewish versus Gentile, there are thousands of different things that influence if you're raised in a rich home, if you're raised in a poor home, if you're raised in the country, if you're raised in a city. There are any number of things that influence and affect the way that we look at the world, right? But, but, in point of fact, we can do our best to be unbiased. We can do our best to say, God, I just want to follow you in your truth.

Lord, show me blind spots. I have people that are constantly challenging me on different views. Hardly a day goes by where I'm not challenged on something by someone either against me or someone with me. And I welcome it. I welcome it. Yeah, some days I'd just like a little piece, but look, let's sharpen each other.

Let's help each other. I've committed during difficult situations. For example, some of you go way back to the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, and was he guilty of, was it murder on any level, homicide on any level? We had really difficult talks to try to understand what was happening and why people had perceptions they did, and my rule was this. You have the right to call in and offend me. In other words, just tell me you're wrong on this.

You don't see this. I would hope that I would have the right to speak truthfully back to you and respond. I might say, wow, you're right, I miss that. Or I might say, hey, I beg to differ, here's why, here's why I think you're missing it.

But how else are we going to grow as human beings? So as a fairly new believer in Yeshua, didn't even know Him as Yeshua then, challenged by rabbis, I knew God was real, I knew that, and I knew that being a Jew was somehow important in God's sight, that I had a debt to Him on some level, things I was supposed to do. And I remember with all my heart and soul, everything in me, everything within me, getting on my face and saying, God, I just want to follow You and be obedient and loyal.

I just want to follow You and be a loyal Jew, regardless of what that means, regardless of who I lose, regardless of how people react to me, regardless of consequences, I have to follow You and Your truth wherever it leads. I don't imply that I've been perfect in everything, I don't arrogantly think that I alone am right on everything I believe in, anyone who differs with me is therefore wrong. But there are hills I'll die on, and I can say before God, I've really done my best to examine opposing views, I mean on the big subjects, you can't spend your whole life examining opposing views on every subject. But on the big subjects, I've really done my best to say, God, I just want You and Your truth, and if I'm wrong anywhere, if I'm missing something anywhere, please show me. And where I have biases and where I'm blind and I don't know it or see it, show me. And where I have to adjust and show, I've done my best to do that, consequently, I have made difficult decisions over the years. Consequently, I have ended up shifting on different views in different areas. And I'm glad I did, I believe I'm shifted in the right direction.

But again, I'm not arrogantly claiming to be right on everything, but to repeat, there are hills I'll die on, there are hills I will absolutely die on. But I just want to encourage you to be a seeker and lover of truth. If it upsets your apple cart on some level, if it means some kind of upheaval, it's worth it.

It's worth it. You say, Dr. Brown, that may just cause someone to leave the faith. If you are sincere in your journey and sincerely follow truth, I believe ultimately that truth will lead you into a deeper relationship with God. But I realize people have left the church or they've left the Lord entirely saying I was just following the truth. I pray for them. I pray for them to have a deeper encounter with the Lord, but I don't question their sincerity.

I take it at face value. All I'm urging you to do is to be a seeker of God and His truth, regardless of cost or consequence. He says, dear Shuni Vachai, seek me and live. You say, I'm not sure if there is a God.

You know, I don't really know who you are, I just flipped on the radio station. I don't really know if there is a God. Well, does it hurt you to pray and just say, God, if you're there, if you actually made the universe and made me, you have a plan for my life where I'm accountable to you on Sibylo, if that's true, would you show me? Would you make yourself real to me? Would you help me to know? Does it hurt to pray that?

Right? And for everyone else, just determine I'm going to follow truth. But do it with humility because sometimes it takes years of study and prayer and reflection to come to certain conclusions. So do it with humility. Don't just think, well, watch the YouTube video so I know what's right or I read a book.

Do it with some humility. You know, we just posted a video with the ancient Egyptians, black. And the biggest thing to me is I do my best to learn from Egyptologists because I'm not an Egyptologist. Yes, I have a Ph.D. in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures, but I took hieroglyphics for a short period of time and I'm not an Egyptologist. Yes, I'm familiar with ancient Near Eastern history, but I'm not an Egyptologist.

I'm not an ancient historian. It's a whole other field. And the top scholars have been in these issues for decades and decades and decades and decades and decades and decades and decades. And they look firsthand physically. They've sat with evidence and looked at it and examined it.

And there's a wide disagreement and many would say the ancient Egyptians by and large were not what we would consider black today or they were multi-ethnic, etc. But these things take time. You study, you learn.

So, whatever you do, approach it with humility and with sincerity and God will guide you. Hey, last encouragement. Make an investment in your own body. Make an investment in your own health.

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TriVita.com. Brown25 for your 25% discount and for 100% of your first order to be donated back to the line of fire. Join the Wellness Revolution, a healthy church starts with a healthy you. Spirit, mind, and body, we've got to have an eye-opening show tomorrow. Don't miss it. Another program powered by the Truth Network.