What Is the Synagogue of Satan?

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So, according to the Scriptures, who or what is the synagogue of Satan? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you so much for joining us on The Line of Fire.

Michael Brown, delighted to be with you today. It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. We've got some really rich, important content, and I'll be taking your calls, any Jewish-related call, 866-348-7884, 866-34-TRUTH. If it's Jewish related, it works for today, including those of you who don't like me or who differ with me. The phone lines are open for you. It's our joy to pay for air time for you to call in and air your differences with me.

Okay. You often hear accusations about synagogue of Satan, synagogue of Satan, synagogue of Satan, and it often comes against Jews today from black supremacists and white supremacists. They'll both throw it our way, well, you're actually the synagogue of Satan, you claim to be Jews and you are not. So, let's first look in context and see what Scripture says and then ask the question, are Hebrew Israelites today synagogue of Satan? How do we open this up and why did I tell a Hebrew Israelite caller that he was of the synagogue of Satan, even though I don't know his ethnicity at all, in other words, whether he's Israelite blood or not, don't know that at all.

He's just calling in. But why can I so emphatically tell him he was of the synagogue of Satan? So, let's open up the Scriptures together and then also in today's broadcast, we're going to go back into the ancient world and show you some really interesting images. Now, everyone listening, the vast majority of you are listening, not watching, I'm going to talk you through the images. But if you're able to watch later on our YouTube channel, S.D.

Brown on YouTube, then you'll be able to see these for yourself, okay? So, first we're going to get into the Scriptures together. So, let's begin in Revelation, the second chapter. Revelation, chapter 2, and we'll put this up for those that are watching. Jesus is speaking to the church in Smyrna, excuse me. Revelation 2 to 8, to the angel of the church, and Smyrna writes the words of the first and last who died and came to life. This is a church in the midst of persecution. Verse 9, I know your tribulation and poverty, but you are rich, and I know the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are synagogue of Satan.

So, here's what we know, just based on the text, okay? We know that the people claimed to be Jews and were not. That means one of two things. It either means they weren't Jews, they were Gentiles, claiming to be Jews, and they were opposing the Gospel, they were slandering Christians, and they were there for a synagogue of Satan, or they were Jews, but by their actions they were not acting in a Jewish way, hence were of the synagogue of Satan in opposing the Gospel.

It's one of those two things. Either an ancient group of Jews that was hostile to the Gospel, hostile to the Christians, slandering them, and God said, you're not really Jews, you're a synagogue of Satan, or they weren't Jews at all. They claimed to be. There was some false group, cult, bizarre religion, whatever, claimed to be Jews and weren't, and were opposing the Christians. The reason they're called synagogue of Satan is because they are slandering and opposing the Christians. Now we go over to the book of Revelation chapter 3. And what's interesting here is that out of the seven churches in Asia Minor that Jesus addresses in Revelation 2 and 3, only two were not rebuked, Smyrna and Philadelphia. And he gives this promise to both of them because they were experiencing opposition. So, Revelation 3 beginning in verse 7, to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, these are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. When he opens, no one can shut, and when he shuts, no one can open. I know your deeds, see I've placed before you an open door that no one can shut.

I know you have little strength, that you've kept my word, and if not, denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, but who claim to be Jews, though they are not, but are liars, I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. So, they are obviously causing trouble, they are obviously opposing the believers there, and Jesus is saying that they're going to come and bow before you.

So, again, and there's massive discussion in commentaries about this, but there are two obvious possibilities. In Revelation 2, the church in Ephesus, Jesus commends them, you tested those who claimed to be apostles and were not, right? So, they claim to be Jews and they're not, Revelation 2, Revelation 3, could be referring to people who weren't Jews at all. They claimed to be Jews, they were Gentiles, they were opposing the Gospel, Jesus calls them the synagogue of Satan.

That's one option. The other option, they were actually Jews, but because Jews should have been embracing the Messiah and embracing the message of these Gentile Christians, when they were opposing them and slandering the Christians, and perhaps even contributing to their martyrdom, Jesus said, you're not really Jews, you're a synagogue of Satan. Now, let me give you some interesting examples. Isaiah chapter 48, Isaiah chapter 48 and verse 1. Isaiah 48 1 says this, listen to this, you descendants of Jacob, you are called by the name of Israel, so they are genuinely Israelites, and come from the line of Judah, you who take oaths in the name of the Lord and invoke the God of Israel, but not in truth or righteousness. So, you're calling on the God of Israel, not in truth and righteousness, you're called Israel, but you're not living as Israel. Were they really Israelites?

Yes, yes, of course, but they weren't living up to their name. Or, how about this, Romans chapter 2. Romans chapter 2. Now, if you'll go in Romans 1 and then 3 and 4 and 5 and through the rest of the book, wherever Paul talks about Jews, he's talking about a physical, ethnic Jew, and for the most part, Jews who don't believe in the Messiah, in some cases, Jews who do. But, to the Jew first and also to the Greek, right? Talk about a non-believing Jew. And yet, in a spiritual sense, a true Jew is one who's not only a Jew outwardly, but also one inwardly. In other words, in God's sight, I would be the true Jew as a Jewish follower of Jesus as opposed to an Orthodox Jew who rejected Yeshua as the Messiah. So, look at what Paul writes, Romans 2, beginning in verse 28.

Romans 2, 28. A person is not a Jew who is only one outwardly. There is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is circumcision of the heart by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God. Now, the very next verse, chapter 3, verse 1, says, Paul says, well, what's the advantage of being a Jew? In other words, let's just go back to talking about physical, circumcised Jews. What's the advantage then? And the advantage is that the Oracles of God were committed to them. They had the Word of God whereas the rest of the nations didn't.

So, they're more accountable. But in a spiritual sense, the real Jew is the one who's a Jew on the inside, not just on the outside, but on the inside also. So, that could be what's going on in Revelation 2 and 3, that these were people who really were Jews, but because they were opposing the Gospel and slandering the believers, and perhaps even contributing to their martyrdom and persecution, Jesus said, you're a synagogue of Satan. Just like the Jews that were opposing him in John 8, they were ethnic Jews. They were legitimately Jews and descendants of Israel.

That was never in dispute. But Jesus said, you're of your father the devil because of what you're doing, because of how you're acting. So, when a gentleman calls in, slandering me and other believers in Yeshua, preaching a false Gospel and making false accusations and claiming to be an Israelite, I told him he was of the synagogue of Satan based on his behavior, not ethnicity or race or genetics. I don't know his ethnicity or race or genetics in terms of does he have Israelite blood or not. I don't know that.

He may not know it either. But in point of fact, it was by his behavior. That was the whole thing. The misuse of this by anti-Semites, both black supremacists and white supremacists to this day, the misuse of this by anti-Semites to say, well, there are these Jews that claim to be Jews and they're not ostracized Jews that claim to be Jews. It's got nothing to do with that. It has to do with those opposing the Gospel actively and maliciously seeking to hurt followers of Jesus Yeshua and doing so while claiming they are Jews. So, whether it's false Israelites, people who are not Israelite at all who are doing it, they're of the synagogue of Satan.

Whether it's real Jews who are doing it, they're of the synagogue of Satan. It's the behavior. That is the issue. That's why as I had private interaction with Mr. Dante Fortson and I told him I'd be sharing this on the air, I reached out, made it clear I wanted to talk with him. He got in touch with us, gave us his email. I reached out to him and he basically said unless I affirm that his sources are accurate, take the time to go through all thousand and recognize the truth there, that there's no reason for dialogue. In point of fact, the sources that I did fact check were not accurate, were not well done. So, I know he's worked hard. I know a lot of folks who've worked hard on it, volunteers.

I know they're very proud of it. I don't want to dishonor or disparage, but there are many, many different sides to different stories and you need to really dig deep. In other words, there's the old adage zero plus zero plus zero equals zero.

So, a thousand times zero equals zero. If the sources are not being interpreted correctly, if they're not being read correctly, if they're not being utilized correctly, or if there are many other sources that say another thing that, you know, what do the fans say about the New York Yankees? What do the people say about President Biden? Well, there's a lot of different opinions. What do scholars say about this or that?

There's debate about what happened January 6th, okay, even though it happened in front of our eyes. So, you go through history. There's debate, historians debate. I'm talking about learning people that spend their entire lives pouring through these. So, Mr. Fortson is not a trained ancient historian, nor am I.

My training is in philology and Bible, etc., but not in ancient history in a professional way. So, there are professional scholars who, in a day, forget more than Mr. Fortson and I learned in a lifetime, in terms of interpreting of ancient sources and things like that, ancient historical sources and historiography and iconography and things like that, and they have different views. So, the issue is when Mr. Fortson, in order to recover his view that the Israelites were black, if they were, there's no skin off my nose, fine.

I believe they were brown skinned, but if they were black, there's no skin off my nose, fine, whatever. It's not an issue to me. It's a zero issue to me. But for him to have Revelation 3, 9, synagogue of Satan in the front, it's unhealthy, it's unwise, and we're getting some of the hate mail, some of his followers. So, I said, hey, if you're a fellow believer in Jesus Yeshua, we can do better.

I still have the invitation. He can come on my show and present his views, and I'm open to dialogue privately. So, my hand has been extended with grace, with honor, with respect. My hand has been extended. I do whatever I can to be a peacemaker, reconciler, and to help people find the truth. And I'm committed to follow the truth wherever it leads, as uncomfortable as it may be. So be it.

We come back, what you're about to see and hear is going to be eye-opening. Stay right here, and then we'll get to the phones and get a Jewish-related question. Now is a great time to call in.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to Thermally Jewish Thursday. Okay, I just want to touch on one last thing, to talk about pursuing truth, learning together, and as you know, I have scholarship in certain areas and not in other areas, but all of us know certain areas better than others. And it's very interesting when you unpack things, when you really learn a subject well, when you're first learning a language, then when you've worked with the language for years and years, then when you become a scholar in a language or things like that, there's a lot. An argument can seem good, and then someone else comes and brings their argument and goes, oh, there's more to it.

So that's why when I'm invited to a college campus to give a talk, which is rare because of the controversies, but when I'm invited to come, I ask, is it possible to do a debate so that someone from the other side could present their views so people could see both sides? I like that because then you can evaluate things better. So let's just take a look at something really interesting. All right, now I'm going to be referring to Wikipedia because it's going to give you a ton of references. If you want to actually go to the sources, Wikipedia articles could be a mixed bag, but we got lots and lots of quotes here. So if you will go to the article asking the question, were the ancient Egyptians black? Right? It's called the ancient Egyptian race controversy, ancient Egyptian race controversy.

I want to scroll down to the second paragraph. Mainstream scholars reject the notion that Egypt was a white or black civilization. They maintain that applying modern notions of black or white races to ancient Egypt is anachronistic, so out of place time-wise. In addition, scholars reject the notion implicit in the notion of a black or white Egypt hypothesis that ancient Egypt was racially homogenous. Instead, skin color varied between the people's lower Egypt, upper Egypt, and Nubia, who in various eras rose to power in ancient Egypt. Now, let me stop here and say race was not an issue in the ancient world the way it is today. Many would argue that race became an issue because of white dominance trying to argue for the justification of the slave trade a couple centuries back, that race became a way for whites to keep blacks down, that you are inferior. It seems that through world history, the bigger issues were not skin color, but ethnicity.

Where are you from? What group of people you were? And that, for example, Moses marrying a Kushite woman, the controversy was not she's a black woman, but she was a Kushite. It may have been considered inferior or whatever it was, but it wasn't because of skin color.

So, that's a modern construct that we're putting on things. So, I'm just going to read through, scrolling down the article, I'll start, these are all Egyptologists and Egyptian scholars and things like that. Barbara Mertz wrote in 2011, Egyptian civilization was not Mediterranean or African, Semitic or Hamitic, black or white, but all of them. It was, in short, Egyptian. Catherine Bard wrote in 2014, Egyptians were the indigenous farmers of the lower Nile Valley, either black nor white, as races are conceived of today. Federico Poggival and Albert Connerl wrote in 2017, there are defenders of the theory that the pharaohs were black and there are those who maintain that they had Caucasian origins, neither theory is provable. Nikki Nielsen wrote in 2020, Egypt was neither black nor white and the repeated attempts by advocates of either ideology to seize the ownership of ancient Egypt simply perpetuates the old tradition, one of removing agency and control of their heritage from the modern population living along the banks of the Nile, and on and on. Now, you say, but I can show you quotes from scholars who say they're black.

The issue is that people have devoted a lifetime to studying this, studying skeletal remains, DNA evidence, looking at the iconography, the pictures and linguistic descriptions, descriptions and everything else are divided. That's all I want you to understand, that top scholars who have devoted a lifetime to this, who can read Egyptian hieroglyphic, who understand the cultural background and things like that, who are experts on Northern African civilizations and Middle Eastern civilizations and on and on, they differ over this, but many say that Egypt was not homogenous color-wise, and that many would say it looked, in ancient times, the way it looks today, which is multiple different peoples of multiple different colors. So, there's a useful article on just a convenient blog, it's not by a scholar, but it's just a convenient blog about tales of times forgotten, that asks about how ancient Egyptians looked, and it's called Were the Ancient Egyptians Black? So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to make my way through a number of texts here.

Let me just grab my notes here. I'm just going to make my way through this, and here we have an illustration of Mahepri from his copy of the Book of the Dead, showing him with black skin. So, here's an ancient Egyptian who's clearly depicted as black, all right?

No question about that. Now, let's go to another one. This is a picture, it's somewhere between, a picture of ancient statues, somewhere between 2649 and 2609, depicting Prince Rahhotep and his wife Nulfret. So, he is light brown skin and she's white skin.

Now, this is ancient Egypt, okay? I just want you to see this, some of the diversity. And notice also that generally men are painted with a little darker skin than women because the women were inside more.

So, it's just, it's fascinating to look at. He's got light brown skin, she's got white skin. Okay, here's another one, a painting from the burial chamber of Nefertiti, dating between 1298 and 1235, and again, she is light brown skinned here as well. Another image, light brown skin image, a man hunting from a tomb painting around 1350 BC. And then the one that's the most interesting of all, it's a 19th century illustration of a book of gates fresco from the tomb of Seti.

So, we rule 1290 to 1279. It shows on the left, you have someone who is pale skinned, and he stood for someone from Libya, which was in Africa. Next is someone who was actually black skinned, and he stood for someone from Nubia, and of course, there are many Nubians in Egypt. The next is a pale southwest Asian pale skin, and then the last one is a light brown skinned Egyptian. Isn't that interesting? So, the Egyptian is different than the Nubian and is different than the Libyan and the Asian.

Just very interesting. And then the famous Beni Hassan tomb painting, which shows Semites who are coming into Egypt, and the Semites are light brown skinned and the Egyptians are dark brown skinned. And when you look at pictures of Egypt from two, three hundred years after the time of Jesus, and you've got these portraits and things like that, and there's one after another back on that article, I mentioned tales of times forgotten, you've got the whole diversity. You've got people who look white, people who look black, people who look Middle Eastern, people wide, wide ranging.

The features, the skin color, wide, wide ranging. That's the reality. That's the reality. The idea that the Israelites had to be black to fit in there is a misreading of history. It's misreading of history.

It's called Kemet because it was black soil by the Nile. So, in any case, there are two sides to every story. And if the ancient Israelites were brown skinned, white skinned, green skinned, blue skinned, black skinned is utterly immaterial to me.

That's not the issue of anything. If Jesus was a black man, a white man, a red man, yellow man, that's utterly immaterial in terms of salvation. And in terms of our own origins, we all come from different parts of the world. Ashkenazi Jews just means Jews from Germany that lived in Germany because Germany was called Ashkenaz in around the 1100s by the rabbis and Jewish scholars, they called it Ashkenaz. So, if you live there, you're an Ashkenazi Jew, like I'm an American Jew, right? That's all it means.

That's all it means. For us to fight over this or to fight over this or make skin color this, it's not the issue. Now, if you feel a heritage has been robbed, well, let's go back and study and see what we can learn and see what can be recovered because there's a rich black Jewish history that must be recovered.

And some of my colleagues are working on that and what they keep learning and discovering is beautiful and wonderful. Let's find out about all the lost tribes, etc., by all means. But to make it all out race, to be dogmatic about some of these things with ancient history, it's a mistake. It's a big mistake.

Let's put our energies elsewhere. The biggest thing is, are you in Jesus? Are you in Yeshua? Jew or Gentile?

Seminary? Do you know the Lord? That's the bigger issue.

That's the bigger issue. We'll be right back. Hey friends, Dr. Michael Brown here. Do you remember when people thought I was crazy when I said it's not too late for America, that God can still do something in our country, that there is going to be a pushback, a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution? And do you remember when people thought that you were crazy because you felt the same way, because you believed what I was saying and already felt it in your heart? Well friends, that pushback is here. The gospel-based moral and cultural revolution we've been talking about for 25 years is unfolding and we are right in the thick of it and the line of fire broadcast is divinely positioned for such a time as this. Friends, you would be so gratified and blessed as I hear, if you could hear what I hear, testimony after testimony as leaders, young people, old people, moms, dads, students, people from all backgrounds come up to me and say, Dr. Brown, you're providing a template for us. You're providing a blueprint for us. You're showing us how to do this, how to have hearts of compassion, backbones of steel.

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Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Boy, it blesses me when I see comments on our YouTube channel or elsewhere that are sent in to us people who were pulled away from the truth of Messiah by countermissionary rabbis, aggressive folks like Tovias Singer, doing their best to undermine the faith of Christians, and they saw our videos rebutting, exposing the misinformation and just getting back to the truth and their faith was restored or they have peace again in their hearts. I hate the fact that they went through that negative process, but now they'll be stronger than ever.

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Let us start in Morristown, Tennessee. Fred, welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I really appreciate you taking my phone call, and I appreciate your ministry over the years. I just wanted to say that off the top. Let me also say that I'm a long-time Jewish believer, and I'm the son of a Holocaust survivor, so anything along these lines are more than just a theological examination, but are very personal to me.

I guess I have a twofold question, which pops up from time to time, and I'm not sure what would be the best way to respond to it. I guess the first question is, do you believe that modern-day Israel, which was established in 1948, does in fact represent fulfillment of the final return? Yes, for sure. It's the beginning of the fulfillment. In other words, there's still more return to take place, and Israel is far from an ideal nation. What's interesting is in the 1800s, Anglican Bishop J.C. Ryle, looking at the Scriptures, persuasively, overwhelmingly argued against a spiritualizing interpretation that said that there would not be a physical regathering of the Jewish people. I quote him in Our Hands Are Stained with the Blood.

It's brilliant, his argumentation. And then he says, as he understands, that the Jews will be brought back to the land in unbelief, and only back in the land will then receive Messiah. So, when the restoration began, and Israel was officially recognized and declared a state in 1948, there were, from my understanding, maybe a dozen or less known Jewish believers in the country at that point.

Now there are as many as 30,000. So, there is an increase, there is an outpouring, but there's still much, much more to happen. But yes, for sure, I see a first regathering, which is the return from Babylonian exile, and then a second, final regathering, which is what's taking place and has been for the last hundred plus years.

Okay, I appreciate that. And then, and then, obviously, the last thing I want to see is another Holocaust. Now, from time to time, and I'm sure you've heard this raised, with respect to Jacob's trouble and abomination of desolation midway through the last seven years, do you view that as literal or symbolic? I look at a lot of the numbers as more symbolic than anything. It could be a literal seven-year period.

It could be something literally in the middle of it. But here's what I do see, Fred. I want to be honest with Scripture. I don't want to deny reality. But the overwhelming testimony I get at the end of the age is that yes, all nations will come up against Jerusalem. Yes, there will be final battle, but that God will deliver our people out of it.

That's the overwhelming testimony. So yes, Jacob's trouble happened in the days of the Babylonian exile. It's happened in a sense through history. Another manifestation of it would have been in the Holocaust. But the idea that some Christians have that we should really pray for the regathering of the Jewish people back to the land, where two-thirds of them will be slaughtered before Jesus returns, I just don't see Scripture saying that. Zechariah 13 does speak about two-thirds being purged by fire. Some would say that happened in the first and second centuries with the first and second Jewish revolts and the devastation that followed. Some point it's out of context, but point to two out of three European Jews dying in the Holocaust. I just don't see that, that there is this great regathering so that everybody can be in one place so they can be slaughtered. It seems that they're in one place so that God can sovereignly demonstrate His hand so that the world can demonstrate its hatred of God and the Jewish people by coming against the people of Israel. And then lastly, that in the midst of suffering, God will deliver. Now, here's the other thing. If you want to take many of these passages as presenting literal pictures, say in the book of Revelation, the whole world is going through hell.

The whole world is going through turmoil and destruction, and the ones that have the best promises are the ones in Israel. So rather than it being the worst place to be, I would look at it as the best place to be. That's how I would understand it, sir. Okay. Well, I appreciate that. As you can imagine, it's a pretty sensitive and volatile issue, especially when you're talking to the very end of days and how to reconcile the final return with the abomination of desolation.

I know you can understand why that can be kind of volatile. Yes, sir. Hey, thank you, Fred, for the call and for the kind words. I appreciate it very much. Thank you for taking my call as well. All right. 866-348-7884, let us go over to Sherry in Atlanta, Georgia.

Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown, thank you. I want you to know I recommended you to Tim Pool to be a guest on one of his shows, so if they reach out to you, please prayerfully consider it. Okay, thank you.

Sure, no problem. My question for you is, can you explain the significance in the woman with the issue of blood touching the tassels on Yeshua's prayer shawl for healing versus the hem of his garment near the ground that most people envision? Right, so the first thing is that the meaning of the Greek word that's translated as a tassel or is it hem, crossbedan, it is the word that the Septuagint translators used for tassel in the Hebrew Bible, and it would be the same. It would be his garment would have been long and the tassel would have been near the ground, just like the hem of the garment would have been near the ground. It's basically the furthest extremity is all it's really talking about. And the likely best way to translate it is not hem, but tassel, because as a Torah-observant Jew, Yeshua would have worn a garment that had the ritual tassels as prescribed in Numbers and Deuteronomy.

So, that's likely the best way to translate it, and more and more English translations render it like that. The question is, did it, was it associated with healing power? Was there some notion of healing power in the tassel?

The best I understand the answer is no. There's one article I saw that tries to come up with an argument for it or, you know, healing in his wings, which would potentially be tassels or something in Malachi, but no, what I understand is, it's just the last, the furthest, if I could just touch that, just barely touch that, because that's the last thing hanging out, the furthest, even that I would be healed, and that's the level of her faith. You know, he doesn't need to stop and lay his hands on me and even speak a word, if I just touch that, I'll be healed. That's the significance of it.

Not that it was a tassel and the tassel was considered to have healing power, does not seem to be an ancient belief that we can trace back, but rather it was just that the the furthest extremity. That's what I understand it to mean. Okay, that is excellent.

Totally answers my question. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you and everything you do. God bless you guys. Have a good one.

All right. 866-348-7884. I tell you what, Caleb Joshua, I like these questions that are waiting for me.

We may be able to take another call or two beyond these. So, 866-348-7884. We have a really neat Jewish resource we're going to be releasing soon. It's free.

It's an amazing video, amazing animation, and a great, great message, a new Jewish proof for the resurrection. And we'd love for you to get it, share it, widely post it, widely tell your friends, absolutely free. So, make sure you're getting our emails. Another reminder, because we'll be sending this out in the coming weeks. Yeah, in the coming weeks we'll be sending this out. And you want to be notified about it, make sure you get an email notification.

So, again, askdr.brown.org, askdr.brown.org. Just click on emails. It's right on the home page. Take a few seconds to fill in the info, your name, email address. If you like, put in your address as well. And we'd love to put you on our welcome tour, tell you more about the ministry work that we do and how we can hopefully be a great blessing to you. Hey, for those who are listening live or on podcasts, you're about to hear from our co-sponsor TriVita. Give this a good listen. I think it's a great investment for your own health and well-being and a great way to support the line of fire.

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Don't wait any longer. Join countless others who have discovered the benefits of TriVita's Ashwagandha KSM 66. To order, call 1-800-771-5584, use promo code KSM 66, and receive one bottle at $19.99 and get one free along with your free digital copy of Healthy You or go to TriVita.com and use promo code KSM 66. Call 1-800-771-5584, 800-771-5584. This is how we rise up. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to 30 Jewish Thursday.

Michael Brown, thanks for joining us. So, if you're listening on our great stations on American Family Radio, repeating this broadcast on Sunday, originally aired on a Friday, you want to find out about these great health supplements. If you call 800-771-5584, now no one will answer your call today, but they'll call you back and ask you questions. I'm interested in this, I'm looking at this, so feel free to do that, all right?

If you'd like, the number to call is 800-771-5584, and then if you leave your info, the folks will gladly get back to you, and they'd love to help you out. We are in this together, want to see wellness health thriving in every way. Okay, let us go to, okay, Joshua in Spokane. Welcome to the line of fire.

Well, thank you, Dr. Brown. I've been trying to think of the right way to word this question, so I apologize if it's not very lucid. So, the question basically surrounds the Trinity in the Old Testament. Do you think that the formation of the justification of the Trinity, the doctrine of the Trinity in the Old Testament, was more founded on viewing the Old Testament as, say, from Paul's approach, God breathed the literal word of God, or was it more taken approach of the, this is the testimony of, say, Abraham when he sat down and had dinner with God, or Joshua when he knelt before the captain of the host and worshiped him, but... The only perspective, Joshua, of the first believers was that the Hebrew Bible was God's Word. In other words, it wasn't just a human perspective or a human testimony, it was God's inspired Word. That's how they all understood it, as first century Jewish believers. So, that's how they would have read it, and then of course we can make an excellent case for God's triunity just using the Hebrew Bible. So, however much Abraham or anyone else perceived or understood is quite secondary to what God reveals through His Word to us, and then comes into fullness with Jesus into the world. But for sure, they didn't look at it in some ways that a modern critic would, that this is just Abraham's testimony, or this has been just a tradition passed on, they looked at it as divine truth. And that's why they would refer to it as written, it is written. And, you know, the scripture cannot be broken, and things like that, or God said, and then quoting scripture. So, certainly that's how they viewed it.

Okay. So, you would say that the, I guess, I don't want words in your mouth, but would you say then that the ultimate proof of the trinity then is the personhood of Jesus and His lived experience here on earth? Yeah, yeah, of course, absolutely. In other words, there's no question that the coming of the Son of God into the world makes many things very, very clear. Just as there was a certain knowledge of God in the days of the patriarchs, and then through the giving of the Torah, Israel as a nation learned more about God, and then as we read the rest of the prophetic revelation, and God's plan unfolds in the scriptures as we read it. It's beautiful and glorious, doesn't contradict itself, but it builds on and unfolds. So, certainly, even in 2 Timothy 1, that Jesus brings life and immortality to light through the Gospel. Really, just look at, read and reread Hebrews 1, and drink that in, right?

So, God spoke in the past, but most fully now through His Son, and this is when everything gets clear when He comes into the world, and now we look back at what came before, and we can see it through much greater insight, clarity, and depth. All right? Okay, sounds good. Thank you, sir, I appreciate it. All right, let us go to Caleb in Amarillo, Texas. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello, Dr. Brown, how are you doing? Very well, thanks. Hey, I just wanted to say, I really appreciate what you guys do. You've been a very big encouragement to me, your testimony, and your story.

I'm not sure if you remember me, I called about a year or so ago. My wife, at the time, she was looking to convert to Judaism. Recently, she has fully converted to Judaism, and left the Christian faith. You sent me a book, the, oh, I forgot what it was called, The Real... The Real Coach of Jesus? Yes, yes, and we looked at it, but you know how it is. Anyways, my question, it has to do with the crimson thread, and I want to say it's in the Talmud, Yoma 39b, and I'm sorry, I don't know specifically, I'm very much a layman in regards to this, but I want to say it says that 40 years prior to the destruction, the scapegoat sacrifice, or the ritual that they were doing, wasn't working.

And I wanted to get your... The whole, all of the Yoma 39a and then into B, it says that there were different signs on the Day of Atonement for centuries in Israel that would all take place if, in fact, God accepted the sacrifices on the Day of Atonement. And if he didn't, they wouldn't. And one of them was that the crimson thread, which was tied in the front of the temple, would turn white, Isaiah 118, though your sins be as crimson, I'll make them as white as snow. So, that was, according to the Talmud, for the last 40 years before the destruction was, before the temple was destroyed, so basically from the time that Jesus dies on the cross until the year the temple was destroyed for 40 years, God did not accept the sacrifices on the Day of Atonement. And obviously, we say God was sending a message that the better sacrifice had come, and then of course the old system was destroyed.

Yes, so your question. Yeah, and I guess in relation to that, I've heard it said that the reason why sacrifices ceased was because they no longer had a temple. And I guess that, it seems a little confusing to me, because there were periods where there wasn't a temple, there wasn't an ark, and they weren't in the land, where people were sacrificing to God.

Well, they weren't supposed to. In other words, sacrifices were only to be brought at the temple. So, during the Babylonian exile, when the temple was destroyed and the many Jews were exiled from the land, they had no national atonement.

There was, they were under divine judgment, they could only plead for mercy, and that's when God began to reveal more and more about the suffering Messiah, so that the people could at least believe that message of what was to come. Right, so without a temple, there cannot be sacrifices. That's why Jews do not sacrifice animals, because there's no temple. Now, what's interesting is that you have a ceremony done around the time of Yom Kippur, where Jews will, it's not universal, but many do, it's still to this day. They will take a chicken, so it's male, female, you know, depending on man or woman, and they'll take it, so it's killed, they'll swing it around their heads three times and say, this is my substitute, this is my atonement. And then, ultimately, the money that would have been paid for the chicken is given to charity, etc. So, that custom still happens in certain parts of Judaism now, other rabbis reject it, but I do find it interesting that there's a recognition for the need for a substitute for an atonement, for some type of payment.

But, no, traditional Jews pray daily for the rebuilding of the temple so they can offer sacrifices again. I see, I see. And I don't mean to take too much of your time, but I guess my wife is in the Reformed tradition.

It's totally liberal, right, yeah. Yes, very, very much so. And I guess, talking to her, she's expressed to me that the sacrifices aren't necessary, but it's more of the act of charity, I guess, that act as atonement. And I want to say there's a reference to Hosea.

Yeah, so Hosea 6-6, you know, desire mercy, not sacrifice. So, Reformed Jews are an aberration, meaning they don't believe what traditional Jews have believed through the centuries. The commandment, you know, I imagine she's Reformed. She doesn't keep a kosher kitchen the way a traditional Jew would. She's not militantly observant of Sabbath and things like that. So, in my view, honestly, Caleb, I'm sad to hear that. Let's pray for Caleb's wife.

It's a real connection back with God that's needed. It's that Judaism is secondary, because she's not a religious Jew. She's a liberal Jew.

And lots of liberal humanistic ideas there. So, it's more to me a movement towards humanism and progressivism than it is towards Judaism. Otherwise, she would have become a traditional Jew. Let's pray that God will really bring her into deep conviction, make her understand her own lostness and a need for the Messiah. And, you know, another question to ask her is, why were these so prevalent in biblical days? What was the point of that? You know, why did God say in Isaiah 53, put the sins of the people upon one man, and by his wounds we would be healed?

Why is that there? And on what basis is she going to stand before a holy God? So, may the Lord bring her to conviction and salvation.

Hey, I wish you had time for more calls, but by the time you ask your question, I will be going off the air. May I pray God's blessings over you. May his smile and grace be upon you. May his favor rest on you. May you draw deeper in your relationship with him. May you come to know him in a way you have never known him before. May Jesus just you would be glorified in your life. If you don't know him, if you're not sure, if you're a Jewish seeker, I urge you, seek him with all your heart. Dear Shunei Vachai, as God says, seek me and live. Seek him with all your heart and he will reveal himself to you.

May he give you the courage to follow his truth wherever it leads. Back with you, back with you, tomorrow. Hurricane, louder than a freight train. This is how we rise up. Heart is beating faster. Feels like thunder.

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