What You Need to Know About the Second Coming

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Here's what you need to know about the second coming of Jesus. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. And we are going to have a great show today.

Michael Brown, so glad we can spend this time together. You're going to be edified, equipped. I believe your eyes are going to be opened. You will be blessed and strengthened.

Thanks so much for tuning in. Now, we're also going to do something I've been wanting to do for a while. We got our new phone lines installed, so we're ready to do it at our studio where your calls are answered. We're going to do some book giveaways also. I'll give out the number, well, I'll give it out now, but don't call for book giveaway 866-34-TRUTH.

Make sure you mark it down if you don't have the number, 866-348-7884. I know there's a lot happening in the news and potential another indictment with President Trump or promised one coming down on him and testimony before Congress that could impugn President Biden for various charges of corruption. Let everything play out. Let the truth come to light. I have no comment beyond that. Let the truth come to light.

Let justice be done fairly across the board for everyone, and let us then as Americans respond accordingly. My focus today is some practical but eye-opening teaching about the second coming of Jesus. It's not to divide. It is not to push back, oh, this view, that view, and it is rather to say, hey, let's just look at a few key scriptural points. I am seeing so much response to videos that I've done exposing some faulty teaching from scripture that guaranteed Jesus would be coming to Rapture's Church by the end of 2023 and pointing back to past eras. I found it sad but ironic when people were saying, yeah, I don't care about the past. I don't care about all the people that got it wrong up until today because it's different now. What do you think everyone said through history? It's different now. Oh, see, everything's lining up now. What do you think they were saying 10 years ago and 50 years ago and 100 years ago and 1,000 years ago? It's all lining up.

So the same way we made errors in the past is the same way we're making errors today. Some people all get very, very upset about this, and I genuinely feel bad for them. Picture this. You're surrounded by family and friends feeling so loved and cared for, and someone says, well, you're just sad because you're lonely. It's like, I'm not lonely, and I'm not sad, or you're feasting at your favorite restaurant with all you can eat of everything, more food than you know what to do with, and someone says, well, you just have a bad attitude because you have nothing to eat. It's like, I'm feasting, and I have a good attitude. So when I see people sending in their comments, attacking me, I don't feel bad for me because I'm blessed and thriving. You can feel the life inside of me and the joy inside of me and the reality of God inside of me if you don't know me. Hopefully you can intuit right off the bat, okay. This guy is brimming with life and joy, and it's overflowing.

I just feel bad for the others, but some people get so worked up over this here. Here are just some recent comments posted on YouTube. Right after this, I'm going to start doing some book giveaways, and then we're going to open the Word together, all right? So here's one. Thirty seconds listening to this guy. This is where I'm exposing these false prophecies about the return of Jesus. Thirty seconds listening to this guy, and you know he is not going. I guess I'm not going to be raptured. He has no faith in Jesus, thinks he is too good. He is so lost, but it's his own fault. I mean, think of the level of spiritual blindness to come to that many wrong conclusions in thirty seconds.

I mean, mind-boggling. That's why I feel so bad for people. Or how about this one here?

People keep watch. People should not listen to you. So as I'm warning them about the false prophecies, they shouldn't listen to me. How about this one, scoffer? How come you no reference scripture?

So in other words, if I don't quote the verses that you think I should quote, and if I say, no, there are not prophecies in the Bible that Jesus is coming by the end of 2023, that makes me a scoffer not using scripture. But I'm only posting these, not to embarrass the people that post them, and I don't know what their actual names are, they're just screen names here, but I posted to say this is the kind of response we get. It's like we poke somebody in the eye when we challenge some of these sacred cows, which makes me realize, oh, the need is even greater. The problems are even more severe.

The sickness within the body is even deeper. Oh, let's see this one. So please stop saying what you don't know or believe. You are placing massive confusion in the body of Christ. Yes, no doubt the rapture will take place.

Of course it will take place. The question is when, exactly how it will unfold, but so, just so in confusion, placing massive confusion in the body of Christ by exposing false prophecies, by exposing nonsense prophecies that guarantees coming by 2023 is coming by 2030, just like we exposed the 1988 reasons why Jesus is coming in 98 or how camping's false prophecies or all that. Here is just the latest wave. It's just the latest wave.

Friends, not that I've been around forever, but I've been in the Lord since 1971 and we had it all figured out when Jesus, it was returned, everything was going to work itself out back then. Just look at the phenomenon of Hal Lindsey's book back then, Late Great Planet Earth. This is it. And it wasn't it.

It wasn't it. Oh, let's see, how about this one. This man is sincere, but sincerely wrong. Dangerous would probably be a better word, but much false teaching from this, his lips, beware! So, you think, why are people getting so worked up, especially when we emphasize you may have different views about the end times.

You may see things differently with pre-trip, post-trip, etc. That's not our issue. Our issue is let's just look at basic things scripture says and look at how people come to these areas with date setting, especially when Jesus says no man knows the day or the hour.

In any case, I see this as symptomatic of a greater sickness in the body and a lack of health that concerns me because it's my burden from the Lord to help get the church healthy and that starts spiritually, then mentally, emotionally, then physically. So that's, I don't, you attack me all day long. Any public for you is going to get attacked, but you hurt for the people, if you have God's heart you're hurt for the people who are misled and deceived and get so worked up over these things. In fact, okay, I'll tell you this real quick, then we're going to do some book giveaways and then get into scripture together. So I notice a post on YouTube, a fellow presents himself as a brother in every way, but he is King David reincarnated. He is King David reincarnated, I don't think I told our team about this yet. He's King David reincarnated and get this guy's, he tells me I've got to get rid of the skillet music at the beginning of the show.

Now of course, some people don't like the music, but we get flooded with people who love the music and are skillet fans and all that. But I sent it to John Cooper, my good friend, leader of Skillet. I sent it to him, he goes, oh man, he goes, it hurts a lot more when it's from a fellow musician like King David.

Anyway, these poor souls, I guess they mean well. All right, are you ready? Here's number 866-34-TRUTH. Caller number five. Now here's the deal. If you are listening on K-word in greater DFW area right now, K-word in Texas, 100.7 FM, if you are listening on K-word right now, caller number five, you get a free copy, a signed copy of the book Craig Keener and I wrote together, Not Afraid of the Antichrist, Why We Don't Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

You'll find it's written graciously, but in a way that it's deep in scripture and thoroughly eye-opening. So caller number five, if you are listening on K-word, 100.7 FM, in greater DFW, oh, we might as well say it is Tuesday and we are live, so don't call a week or a month later. This is a giveaway today. Tuesday, what's today?

It's August 1st. Caller number five, 8663487884. The book is yours. Once we do this book giveaway, we come back on the other side of the break and we are going to take your calls on a wide range of subjects.

So one more time for listening on K-word, 100.7 FM, in greater DFW area, the book is yours for caller number five, 8663487884. What I want to do, when we come back on the other side of the break, what I want to do is give you some clear teaching from the scriptures, all right, as to what the New Testament emphasizes regarding the return of Jesus. The key things that we need to know in order to live rightly, we're going to look at that and then something I think is really going to open your eyes, and here's where we're going to start. We're going to start in 1 Thessalonians 4, famous verse about being caught up to meet the Lord together in the air.

Yeah, I guess we have our winner now from DFW, but we'll be giving away more books, different stations, different parts of the country, so our joy to do that. We're going to start in 1 Thessalonians 4 and keep going into 2 Thessalonians and look at some things that often we don't look at. In fact, in fact, as I'm looking at the clock and realize I was thinking in terms of an older clock, we're going to start here now.

Yeah, so we do have our winner, so thank you, college, we do have our winner from greater DFW, and we'll be giving out some more books, different stations, but we're going to start now. But let's dig in. 1 Thessalonians 4, okay? And I want you to look at something really carefully with me, then we're going to go over to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, okay?

Everybody ready? So, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, some of the best-known verses about the return of Jesus and our meeting him. So we start in verse 13. Paul writes, But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, now verse 15. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming, notice that word, coming, everybody say it out loud with me, in Greek, parousia, the coming of the Lord, the parousia, the arrival of the Lord, those who are alive who are left until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Right? So, what's the order? For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command. This is what we're waiting for as believers. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, with the sound of the trumpet of God, so it's gonna be something loud and clear, and the dead in Christ will rise first, so those who died previously in Jesus will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with him. This is what we refer to as the rapture, caught up together with him in the clouds to meet the Lord there, and so we will always be with the Lord there for encourage one another with these words. He's gonna return, dead in Christ will rise, we who are alive will be caught up to meet him, then what happens next, we'll discuss that. That's the next great event we're looking forward to.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, it's neat to see how many of you that have checked out our wellness supplements with our co-sponsor Triveda are reordering, because they really are helpful, they really do work. And then as you reorder, Triveda gives you all kinds of bonuses and incentives and continues to take a substantial portion of every order that you place and pour it back into the Line of Fire to help us to reach more people around America. If you got to travel where I get to travel, and hear from people that we've been able to minister to first hand, it would warm your heart. Those of you who pray for us to stand with us, it would warm your hearts.

Remember 800-771-5584 is the number to call for Triveda, or triveda.com, use the code BROWN25. Okay, before we go to the phones just to take your calls, congratulations to William listening on 100.7 K-word in DFW area. Okay, let's do one more book giveaway, one more book giveaway. Let us go to Chicago. If you are listening on WYLL 1160 AM in Chicago, WYLL 1160 AM in Chicago, call number 6. Call number 6, you get a free copy of Not Afraid of the Antichrist by Craig Keener and yours truly signed by me, I can't get Craig to sign it from a distance, but signed by me personally to you, an absolutely free copy.

Call number 6, listening on WYLL 1160 AM in Chicago, 866-34-truth, 866-34-87-884. Okay, I hope you don't mind me having a little fun with our listeners and being a blessing in this way. So, back to scripture. We saw that Paul is comforting the believers in Thessalonica and saying, hey, you don't have to suffer grief the way the world does.

Why? Well, because we have hope. People don't just die and they're gone and that's it forever. Remember, these are new believers in Thessalonica, so he's teaching about the resurrection, but here's this incredible revelation it's going to bring. It's an incredible revelation.

Again, number to call, if you are listening, again, WYLL 1160 AM Chicago, 866-34-truth, 866-34-87-884 for your free copy of Not Afraid of the Antichrist, that'll be caller number 6. So, Paul's writing to them saying something very special is going to happen. Something very, very special is going to happen. Jesus is going to return, it's going to be this phenomenal event, and those who have died in the Messiah, they're going to be raised up to meet him, and we're going to be raised up, as Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15, we'll get these new bodies, these resurrected bodies, and that will forever be with the Lord. We're going to meet him in the air. Now, if you're pre-trib, you believe we're going to meet him in the air and go to the heavenly kingdom for seven years and then return afterwards. If you're post-trib, as I am, you believe we're going to meet him in the air and escort him back to earth.

But here's what I want to point out to you. Remember what we're waiting for. We are waiting for the, what, coming of the Lord when we'll be gathered together to him.

Correct? The coming of the Lord. Paul's language. The parousia, which speaks of a coming or speaks of an arrival. So now let's go over to 2 Thessalonians, the second chapter, alright?

I want you to see this with me. This is Paul writing to the same people about the same subject, our meeting the Lord in the air, his coming, our being gathered to him, right? So let's look at this, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, beginning in verse 1, now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him.

So when is this? People refer to it as the rapture, caught up to meet him in the air, right? Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word or a letter seeming to be from us to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Somebody must have circulated something and some teaching was going around saying that hey, you know, it's happened, it's taken place, like, what are you talking about? And they're new, this is new to them, and they're confused, so Paul says don't get unsettled. Don't get unsettled, alright? Let no one deceive you, verse 3, in any way, for that day, what day, the day of our being gathered to the Lord, the day of his coming, the day of the rapture, let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not happen unless the rebellion comes first.

Well, that's interesting. In Greek apostasy, as some say, that just means the departure can mean the rapture departure from the world. No, no, forget about it, that's not what the Greek means. The Greek apostasy does not mean a physical departure, it is not used anywhere in the New Testament, it's not used anywhere in classical Greek literature, in that sense, those are trying to argue for it, it's been completely rebutted. You see, but they're older in these translations that talk about the departure, it means the departure from the faith, not from the earth, alright?

So translating it, rebellion, apostasy, that's correct. So here's what Paul says, let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come, what day, the day of the rapture, the day of the second coming of us meeting the Lord, until the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Paul said, we're going to see this happen, do you not remember that when I was still with you, I told you these things, and now you know what is restraining him, so that he may be revealed in his time. Many, many different interpretations as to what the restraining force is, maybe we'll come back to that, I don't want to get caught up in a side issue though. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

So it's an he, it's an it. And then the lawless one will be revealed, to whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth, and note this, and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. What are we waiting for? His coming. What are we waiting for, his return.

What are we waiting for, the day we see him face to face. It's all one and the same event according to Paul. In other words, it is not a separate rapture where we're secretly taken out, why? Because Paul refers to that as the coming, and makes it clear it's going to be a momentous thing, he refers to it as the appearing of the Lord, we long for his appearing, right, in 2 Timothy 4, we're waiting for his parousia, for his coming, it is at his coming that we are raptured, and it is at his coming that he destroys the antichrist, it is at the coming of Jesus, for the whole world to see, think of this, the whole world gets to see it, as Jesus says in Matthew 24, after the tribulation of those days, you see the sign of the Son of Man coming. And Paul says it will be announced with the trumpet blast, with the voice of the archangel that the whole world will hear this thunderous word, will look up and see the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, and we who have been mocked and Christians who have been persecuted and reviled and butchered in other parts of the world, the rise from the dead, those alive and ready, will be caught up together in front of the whole world, caught up together to meet him in the air, and then what do we do? The Greek in 1 Thessalonians 4 speaks of going out of the city to escort the king back or the emperor or the leader back, we will meet him in the air and escort him to the earth while he will destroy the wicked and set up his kingdom. Talk about a blessed hope, talk about something to look forward to, the public appearing of Jesus where we are caught up together to meet him.

How about a wow and amazing and awesome for that? You say, but what about tribulation? Jesus said in this world you'll have tribulation. John 16 33, Paul wrote in Acts 14, Paul and Barnabas encouraged the believers there that they must go through many tribulations to enter the kingdom of God. Paul writes in Romans 8, what shall separate us from the love of Christ? Tribulation?

No, never. He said, what about God's wrath? God protects us from his wrath. He gives us a place of refuge, so while his wrath is poured out in this world, he'll protect us, he'll give us a place of refuge, and then when he comes, we'll publicly be caught up together with him. What are we waiting for? Don't separate it into rapture, second coming, because Paul doesn't.

The rapture, the catching up that we're waiting for happens at the second coming before the whole world. By the way, we've got callers on hold that we'll get to in a moment, but you can still call from Chicago because we've got callers from other places. 866-34-TRUTH. If you're listening on WYLL, that's going to be called right now to get your free copy of Not Afraid of the Antichrist. Hey friends, this is Dr. Michael Brown.

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This is how we rise up. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back, friends, to the line of fire.

I may do one more book giveaway before this hour is out. 866-34-TRUTH, I'm going to transition over to some of your end time questions, but on a real practical basis, as practically as I can make it, we should be emphasizing the what of the Lord's return rather than the when. There's always the feeling it could be at the door. It's the New Testament consciousness, this coming is near, the judge stands at the door, and for sure, any one of us could die at any moment. Every day, thousands of people die, many people die that weren't expecting to die, that something happened suddenly, a car accident, a heart attack, some freak of nature, and your tree falls on a car, they weren't expecting to die, and they do, so we always live ready to meet Jesus at any moment.

That's common sense because none of us have a guarantee of our next breath, that's number one. And number two, we live with a sense of God getting ready to break in in history. So we live with that, but the New Testament focus is not on date setting, it is absolutely not on date setting. In fact, the New Testament discourages it and says that when these things begin to unfold, when you see the whole world shaking, and when everything is happening in such a way that people are fainting and dropping dead from terror and fear of what's coming next, and what does it say in Luke 21? And you look up and you see the Son of the Son of Man coming, and it's just right here.

You'll know, you won't be caught off guard. First Thessalonians 5, Paul says that we're children of the light, and therefore the Lord's light coming is a thief in the night for us because we're children of the light, not children of the night. So therefore we're not, we're not asleep, we're awake, so it doesn't come like a thief in the night for us because we're awake and we are in the light, alright? So the emphasis is what's going to happen? We will become like him, 1 John 3, whoa, we'll receive glorified bodies like his, Philippians 3, 1 Corinthians 15, we'll be caught up to meet him in the air and be with him forever.

Wow! In light of that, how do we live today? 2 Peter 3, since the whole universe is going to be renovated by fire one day, emphasis is not on the timing of it, get the exact dates right, to the second, no, how then should we live, is what Peter says. We should live holy, godly lives. You say, but Dr. Brown, what about a sense of urgency to reach the lost? If I think Jesus is coming at any moment, I'm going to be more urgent.

No, you won't. Let me tell you why, because you can't live like that always. Why are you listening to me on radio right now rather than just witnessing? Why did you go to work today? Why did you eat? Why did you sleep last night? If you really thought and he's coming any second, then every second you're just trying to find another person to warn them and to urge them to come and believe or reach out to a relative or, well, because we understand he hasn't yet come, well, you have to sleep. You have to eat.

You have to work a job. Why are you talking about marriage plans in six months? Why are you putting money aside for retirement? Why are you pouring into your children? Surely Jesus will come before they get to three or five or 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 or whatever. I have friends of mine in Italy, missionary friends, that went there as backpacking hippies and I ended up sticking around. They've been there like 50 years from America and Canada preaching Jesus, and they've been there like 50 years. And they told me, you know, they're living in tents and trailers and moving around the country and things like that, and they think, well, we don't have to worry about getting married or anything because Jesus is going to come for us, but he didn't, so they started getting married. We don't have to worry about kids though, plans for kids, because Jesus is going to come before we have kids when they start having kids. We don't have to think about education or long-term because Jesus is going to come before they start going to school. And now some of those kids are 45 and 50 years old, I mean, I know them.

They're friends of mine, and they got kids or somehow grandkids of their own. So of course we have to live practically, and we have to live with foresight for future generations, live with a multi-generational mentality, just the fact that people are perishing without God, just the fact that we are in a life and death spiritual battle, just the fact that we owe everything to Jesus and want to pay him back in terms of pay him back with a life of obedience and service and love, and because we only have one life to get the job done. That keeps me living with a sense of urgency day and night. That keeps me up late writing or on my knees praying or looking for ways to bring the Gospel to my Jewish people or send more missionaries to the nation. I am consumed with the burden of the calling day and night because I only got one life to live, but the great hope is that he's going to return. Oh, I hope he comes in my lifetime.

That's what I long to see. But if he doesn't, I want to run my race and hand the baton to that next generation until they run their race, until we hand the baton to Jesus, so to say. The New Testament emphasis is on the what of his coming, the reality of it, rather than of the when of it. If it was an emphasis on the when, then the New Testament writers would have said, hey, chill. Chill. Because Jesus is not coming for at least 2,000 years, so chill.

And maybe it's 2,100 years or 200 years. God knows. God knows. I don't know.

You don't know. So, they didn't write that. They wrote about urgency and readiness and nearness, also knowing they had missions, also knowing they had things to do. But, Jesus talks to Peter about when he's going to be an old man. Peter was obviously not thinking, I'm going to be raptured out of here any minute. Peter was told, when you're an old man, this is how you're going to die.

You're going to die by crucifixion. It's in the New Testament, John, 21st chapter. So when Paul's writing, you know, finish the race, he knows he's going to be martyred soon.

Or Peter in 2 Peter, so 2 Timothy 4, or Peter writing in 2 Timothy, 2 Peter. And he's saying, hey, look, I'm going to have to put off the tent of my body. He knows his death is coming. They weren't saying we're going to be out of here any second. But there was still that anticipation that we who are alive remain, that there's going to be one generation of us that is. May we be that generation. If not, we hand the baton to the next people.

The emphasis is on the one. What you need to know is that it is when Jesus appears that we will be caught up to meet him and it is that glorious when that we are living for and waiting for. And then he will come and establish his kingdom on the earth. Oh, yes. That's what motivates us. That's what moves us. That's what keeps us encouraging forever. We will be with the Lord.

Wow. And if you differ with me on some of the details here, let's not divide over it. I love Jesus when I was pre-trib. I love Jesus post-trib. I was passionate for the Lord when I was pre-trib. I'm passionate for the Lord when I'm post-trib. And I have friends who are post-mail, I have friends who are at email, I have friends who are pre-trib, I have friends who are post-trib, and we love Jesus.

We want to see him return. We want to see the kingdom advanced. We share that heart.

So let's not divide over this, but please take away what you can from this and may it be helpful to you. All right. With that, we go to the phones.

Let's start with Kyle in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey, Kyle, thanks for holding, and welcome to the Line of Fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, thank you for taking my call.

You are very welcome. I'm calling, just first of all, I'm really encouraged by the show today. It is so great to hear you talking about the second coming and how he may come in our lifetime, he may come afterwards, but we need to be ready and expectantly waiting. I've, for the last several years, me and my friends, Brothers in Christ, have been interested in times and all these conversations, and we've gone through all the different views, and along the way, one of our friends is just in the post-mail camp, and he sort of stayed there, and I've recently been looking more at the historical pre-mail stuff, and so we've gone a little bit back and forth on that, and he said, I don't know if I can ever go pre-mail. He even said that he would be more open to full preterism than to go pre-mail of any kind because he's so burned by the dispensational pre-mail view and how that's worked out in different areas of his life. And then I said, well, hey, just, you know, if you start to see the things happening that a historical pre-mail view would teach, if you start to see these things happening in our lifetime, just be aware. And he said, well, if I see that happening, I'd just say that's some sort of government psy-op.

I can't even think that that would be an actual thing. He's not thinking rationally. He's thinking emotionally.

I don't mean that in insult. It's reactionary. So, number one, what does he do with the fact that all the testimonies that we have from the early church leaders, say pre-Augustin, to the extent they talk about the end times, they're all historically pre-mail. They all expect to see an antichrist, a return of Jesus, and a restored kingdom on the earth.

And many, even though they had some anti-Jewish sentiments, they consistently spoke about restoration of Israel, et cetera. So that's number one. How does he deal with that fact that the disciples of the apostles were pre-mailed?

That's number one. Number two, how does he deal with the fact that some of the greatest Christian voices in the 1800s were absolutely not, absolutely not dispensationalists, like Charles Spurgeon or J.C. Ryle said, we don't think enough about the restoration of the Jewish people, and spoke in detail about how the Jewish people would be restored to the land. J.C. Ryle, Bishop Ryle said, they will be restored back to the land in unbelief first. There will be a physical restoration in unbelief before they turn.

I document that in my book, Our Hands Are Staying with Blood, the 2019 edition. But you can just search online for J.C. Ryle, R-Y-L-E, and Israel, Second Coming, or same with Spurgeon. Same with people like D.M., Lloyd-Jones, Martin Lloyd-Jones, you know, talking about the restoration of Israel, what was prophesied, et cetera. And then here's the other thing to throw at him.

Just ask him this little question. Do you agree that God scattered the Jewish people in judgment and wrath because of their rejection of the Messiah, that was the culmination of rejecting Moses, the prophet? And I'm sure he'd say yes. Say do you agree that if God scatters, no one can regather? If he curses, no one can bless.

If he smites, no one can heal. Do you agree, right? That's why illnesses that he put on Israel under the curse were incurable, right? And when he opens the door and no one can shut it, when he shuts it, no one can open it.

Say do you agree with that? Then, if he does, say, well, then who regathers the Jewish people? I actually have a video, Consider This as God a Zionist, where I raise that very issue. Then who regathers the Jewish people?

How'd this happen if, in fact, God scattered them in judgment, who has the power to regather if not for the Lord? Human beings can't do it? U.N. can't do it? U.S. government can't do it? You can't override the judgment of God?

You're not asking this? Why is Jesus coming back to Jerusalem? God's finished with Israel. If there are no purposes left for Israel, was God coming back to Jesus, going back to Jerusalem? So you might want to throw those things out to him to get him to think.

If you have our app, Ask Dr. Brown Ministries, ASK Gear Brown Ministries, just scroll down to Consider This and look for the video, animated, five minutes as God a Zionist. We'll be right back. Nopalea has helped thousands of people by lowering levels of chronic inflammation. I really enjoy being physical. It's something I've just always loved, but I've definitely had times where it's really crippled me up. Being a horse trainer can be pretty physically demanding with all the duties that I have.

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Go to triveda.com or call 800-771-5584, again, 800-771-5584. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the Line of Fire. Okay, here's what we're going to do. I am getting to, let's see, Henry and Bob next.

But here's what we're going to do. If you are, it's going to be fast. If you are listening right now on radio, it is Tuesday, I've got to remember what day because of travel month, Tuesday, August 1st.

So this is live. You may be listening on podcast an hour later or six hours later, but if you're listening live right now, any radio station where you're listening, any of our stations in North Carolina, anywhere in North Carolina, all of our stations, if you are listening right now, will make it really fast. Caller number 4, 866-34-TRUTH, you get a free giveaway, Not Afraid of the Antichrist, signed copy. So call number 4, any station where you're listening on radio right now in North Carolina, give us a call.

We just have a couple lines open, so it's going to be really fast. Caller number 4. All right, with that, we will go to the phones, actually starting coincidentally in North Carolina, Henry in Hickory. Thanks for calling and thanks for holding. Welcome to the broadcast. I'm glad to be here. Hey, I really appreciate your show.

It's awesome and I want to thank you for that. And I'm calling because I have one question and I got saved a lot when I was eight years old, but I could never believe or actually commit myself to believing in a pre-tribulation or rapture because there's something about it I could not believe in. Up until five years ago, I found the post-tribulation is when you just read the Bible only, that's what you come up with, at least that's what happened with me. My question to you is, do you find a lot of people stick with pre-tribulation or rapture because they're afraid? Yes, so I'm not judging anyone and I appreciate the way in which you stated it for yourself. I'm not judging others, I really appreciate that.

Here's my experience. I don't know anyone to this day who came to the whole pre-trib idea and the rapture is separate from the second coming and the various other aspects of the whole end time system. I don't know anyone that just reading the Bible on their own without any outside influence or teaching came up with that whole scheme. I agree with you again, I'm not judging fine Bible teachers and theologians, but as I could almost guarantee, you put a thousand people in a thousand rooms, you give them the ability to read the Bible perfectly in Hebrew and Greek, a little bit Aramaic, those sections, and they just read the Bible cover to cover ten times.

They don't know anything about anything, right? And they're believers. God, open my heart as I read your word, I don't believe a single one of them, I don't believe a single one of them would come up with a pre-trib idea that this is separate, the second coming is separate from the rapture, and I don't believe anyone would come up for that split-site, especially if they could read the New Testament in Greek, because they'd find the exact same vocabulary used for the alleged pre-trib rapture with poster.

Now again, I'm not, just like you, not judging brothers and sisters hold it. Now, as for the fear thing, I constantly hear from people who object to a post-trib rapture because they're terrified of the idea of going through a tribulation, and they cannot possibly countenance for a moment that they could be here as God's wrath is poured out, and Henry, we tell them, and what we emphasize to them, is that, yes, you will go through this, but protect it by God. God's given his promises at the end of Isaiah 26, come, this is God saying, come, my children, enter the inner chamber until my wrath passes by, because I'm coming to the whole earth. Jesus prays to his Father in John 17, 15, and it's the exact same Greek construction as we have in Revelation, the third chapter, where Jesus says, I will keep you from the hour of trial coming on the whole earth, to the church in Philadelphia there, the exact same Greek construction to keep from. He says, Father, I'm not praying that you take them, the apostles, I'm not praying you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. It's the same way, right here in this world, Henry, right here in this world, for sure, there's no question that we can be kept from God's wrath. So again, I'm not making a judgment on anyone, and even the title of our book, Craig Kuhn and I, Not Afraid of the Antichrist, that was not our first title. Our first title is Why We Don't Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, because we're not saying that others are afraid of the Antichrist, but are there some who are terrified by this idea of being in the Tribulation? Absolutely.

And that fear factor is a real factor, for some, for sure. All right, let us go over to Grand Prairie, I guess right outside of Dallas. Bob, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, thank you very much, great show. I happen to be one of those thousand, or one person out of a thousand that actually read pre-trib into the Bible when I became a believer in my 20s, but I'm also open-minded, and I've got a question. Hey, Bob, just a quick question, because this is fascinating.

And by the way, congratulations, Brian, our winner from Wake Forest, thank you. Okay, just a quick question, were you in a church or any environment where you ever heard of such a thing as pre-trib, or were you completely isolated reading the Bible on your own? No, isolated. I became a believer in my 20s through a series of pretty crazy events, and then I said, oh, I should start going to church, so I went to a Catholic church, I went to a Baptist church, and I was trying to find a style of worship that worked, but absolutely did it on my own from the Bible first. So that's very interesting, Bob, so what did you conclude then?

I know you want to call about something else, but if you don't mind, because I just said I've never met someone. So what did you conclude, you read the Bible on your own, and what did you actually come to conclude? Yeah, that's all I'd love to go over, there's a couple of things, I can see post-trib, I can see pre-trib, I can see all kinds of things in there, but specifically if you looked at Matthew 25, 7 through 13, the parable of 10 virgins, and this seems to strongly infer some pre-trib element to it, so you've got 10 virgins, believers, 5 have oil, 5 don't, the 5 that have oil suggests to the 5 that don't, as the bridegroom is coming, that they go buy oil. In Scripture it says that no one can buy or sell in that final great tribulation unless they have the mark of the beast, so to me, they couldn't buy or sell unless it was before that great tribulation, and then it says that those people did go try to buy and sell, so they didn't say they couldn't, and then it says later, that's when they were locked out and the door was shut, and I don't understand how if Jesus comes straight back down with us, there would be a shut door for those believers, and it seems to be a reference to people with bad theology, maybe no offense against a Mormon or a person that had bad theology, but they think they're believers and they're not, and to me this is the most grace way for God to save people. So first, I love the process of thinking and how you're digging in and comparing Scripture to Scripture.

Here's where I come away differently on that. Number one, there's only, Jesus has already told us about the time of the bridegroom's coming. He uses these very words in Matthew 24 and says it's after the tribulation of those days that His coming will happen. So He's already said that explicitly just a few verses earlier when He's taught at length, when His disciples ask Him, what's going to be the sign of your coming in the destruction of the temple, sign of your coming, the end of the age, and now He explains and He goes into detail about it in Matthew 24. So that's the first thing. He's already told us explicitly after the tribulation of those days that He will come and we'll be gathered to Him.

So that's number one. He's already said that explicitly. Number two, the parable is to make a point.

In other words, it's not necessarily to read something into every detail, but to make an overall point. And this is the point of being ready for His return. Do we know that all ten virgins were believers?

Where does it say that? If it does, where is the theology that only believers that are ready get caught up and believers that aren't ready stay back? I mean, we don't see that.

It's the whole body. We who are alive and remain get caught up to meet Him, along with those who previously died. So if you're a believer, and when He comes, you're going to be caught up to Him. If you weren't ready, then you won't be living the ideal way you should, but we who are alive and remain will be… In fairness, I wasn't suggesting bad theology.

I was suggesting somebody that thinks they're a believer, like a Mormon. All right. So they're not really saved then. Right. Right. So they're not really saved.

Yeah. I mean, in their mind they are, but how do you address the fact that it's clearly they're told to go buy and sell, and in Scripture it says you cannot buy and sell without the mark of the beast at the latter part of Great Tribulation. How do you reconcile that? Because it has nothing to do with any of that.

It's not actually buying and selling. It's a parable. It's simply a parable to make a point and saying you can't get ready then.

It's too late to get ready when He's returning. That's the whole point that's being made. Right? So, and here's the deal. What happens, what do these, these are not the bride, these are the bride's maids, right? What happens when the bridegroom, they meet him and do what? They now escort him to his place right here where he's, they don't turn around and go back to where he came from. They meet him and escort him in.

So that's what we do. But, what I really appreciate is that you're digging in and thinking about Scripture and asking these kinds of questions where I would differ is to say, number one, Jesus explicitly told us that it's after the Tribulation of those days that we'll see the Son of the Son of Man coming, that's when we'll be gathered to Him, that's number one. Number two, that Paul explicitly says it's at His coming, which is after the revelation of the Antichrist and the rebellion that will be gathered to Him, right?

And again, biggest of all, it's a parable seeking to make an overall point, not to cause us to try to read a theological detail into every point. In any case, those that left behind are going to say, hey, thank you for the call though and the dialogue. Sorry we couldn't get to more calls, we'll pick this up later in the week. God bless you. God bless you.