A Must See Movie (featuring Dr. Brown too!)

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Hey, friends, I'm in the movies.

Oh, yeah. I've got to talk to you about an amazing new movie you want to see. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the Line of Fire broadcast. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you, delighted to be with our new listeners, our old listeners. Here's what we're going to do. The first half of the broadcast, I'm going to share a bunch of things with you. But the full minds are open. Any question you want to ask me on any subject, biblical, theological, cultural, anything you want to pick my brain on, anything you want to challenge me on, where you differ, anything you want to talk about in the news, want my perspective.

866-348-7884. Then at the bottom of the hour, I'm going to be joined by producer, actor Craig Brown, talking about the brand new movie. It's going to be in about 750 movie theaters, but one night only, June 20th.

So a week from today, if you're listening live, June 20th, it's called Between Mercy and Me. And I'm in the movie. I've got this little role and a couple of little scenes. But my character is actually through the movie, plays a role behind the scenes. But anyway, so it's not about me. But the fact that I made it is just it's kind of fun, an unusual experience. But it's it's it's it's a powerful movie.

It's won awards for music tracks and other things as well. And it's going to be one night only in the theaters. So we're going to talk about that at the bottom of the hour. But first, your calls.

Any question under the sun that you want to ask me as we're on live talk radio 866-348-7884. OK, I have not talked about the new indictment of former President Trump. I did tweet a couple of days ago saying that my issue is justice. Let there be equal justice for all. And in other words, if if President Trump is guilty of certain things and should be indicted, should face charges, then just apply the law equally. In other words, how would that affect former presidential candidate and secretary of state Hillary Clinton? How would that affect current President Joe Biden? There are many who say it's a political witch hunt.

That's all it is. There are many who say if this was Joe Biden, that he would not be indicted, that he's committed all these crimes. And Hillary Clinton, there were security issues with her and she was not indicted. I was not one in the crowd shouting, lock her up, lock her up.

You never heard me lead that chant on the radio or anything like that. OK, so I don't I don't know. But you may say, oh, it's so obvious it's a political witch hunt or it's so obvious. Trump is guilty. I don't know all the facts. You don't know all the facts. Our law system is still innocent to proven guilty.

All I want to say is this. Whatever the case is, let the truth come to light. OK, I'm partisan to the truth. Ultimately, I'm partisan to righteousness. Ultimately to justice.

Ultimately to God's will. That's what I'm partisan to. And I do my best. Obviously, I'm far from perfect there.

And I could fall into things like any other human being. But I do my best to have my ultimate allegiance to God. That's why I'm ultimately registered as an independent. I'm not judging you if you're registered otherwise.

I'm simply saying for me, as a matter of conscience, to say I register as not a member of either party as independent. OK, that being said, my only take on it is if Trump is guilty, if there are legitimate charges brought against him, then let the truth come to light in a righteous way. As long as that same truth, that same light, that same justice is applied equally to other major figures, be it President Biden, be it Hillary Clinton. And I'm not damning them. I'm not acquitting them, any of them, any of them. And if it's a political witch hunt, let it be revealed for what it is and let it not be used against others, right?

Let the Department of Justice not be weaponized in a political way that is terribly dangerous. You say, Dr. Bell, what's your opinion? I have no opinion. I have no opinion on it.

You say, no, no, no, come on, what's your opinion? I have no opinion because I do not know all the facts. I am not privy to the details. The case has not been tried yet. We don't know what the outcome is going to be. We don't know what all the evidence is.

Yeah, but all the report. I haven't dug into it. It's not my business.

And I haven't felt called or led by God to dig into it, to find out. Let let everything play out. But you've heard my heart. What matters to me? Just equal justice for all. That's equal treatment for all. That's my heart. That's my desire. All right.

So that's my comment. You can call and talk about it, but that's that's what I want to say. All right.

Let us go over to Mackay in North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, how are you doing? Very well, thank you, sir. Um, I had a question, I had a couple of questions.

One was regarding tattoos. My understanding. Well, that means.

Are you talking right into the phone there, Mackay? Yes, sir. All right, go ahead. So question on tattoos. Right. From my understanding, Leviticus was, you know, an Old Testament thing and there was other scripture. I mean, scripture saying that you can't make clothing fabrics. My question would be, when it says you can't tattoo for the dead, what if my mom passed away and I had a tattoo of her?

Right. OK, so the first thing is, my own view is that you have to come to your own conclusion before God on this. It's not like don't murder, don't commit adultery. You say, yeah, but it's explicit in Leviticus 19 that you're not to get tattooed and so some kind of mourning for the dead or something like that. Yes, but as you pointed out in that section in Leviticus, contrary to say Leviticus 18, where God judges foreign nations for certain sexual violations, including incest and homosexual practice, et cetera. Contrary to Leviticus 18, Leviticus 19, there are there are laws given to Israel to keep them separate from the nations along with universal moral principles rolled in there. And in Leviticus 19 and 20, you know, various chapters, you couldn't sow your field with two different kinds of seeds.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong about that. But Israel was forbidden, forbidden for doing because God was teaching them laws of separation. So also with tattooing, it's not to do things as the nations do. Now, I could not do it in good conscience. To me, it would be wrong. And I would feel that I am somehow defiling this this physical body, this temple that God gave me, I couldn't do it in good conscience. But I cannot say with that one reference only just based on scripture, not the larger question of the origins of tattooing and the art of it and how much of it is demonic, that's a separate question.

Right. But as far as just basing it on that one verse in Leviticus, that's different than other prohibitions God gave Israel that also apply to all nations as as for the practice that's being spoken against in Leviticus 19. It's not saying that someone has to tattoo to remember someone as much as it's kind of a way of mourning.

It's a way of striking your body or marring your body or changing your body. So if you're saying, should you go ahead and do it? We really have to go to the Lord and ask Him His heart, His mind on it. If it's something you already have, you don't have to feel like, oh, no, I'm living in perpetual sin because I have a picture of my mom on my arm to remember her, that's certainly not what the Leviticus prohibition was aiming at.

It wasn't arguing against that. It was more of a pagan right and a pagan custom. So that's that's as best as I can answer it from there. It's for you and the Lord to sort out, OK?

Yes, sir, thank you. I had another question about cussing because and I've come across a lot of Christians like content creators who are Christians who cuss and I don't know if I asked you this question before, I might have, but they also say the prophets cuss and stuff like that. Yeah, so it's OK. You know, I recently was told by a pastor friend of mine, former pastor, now podcaster, I guess with a pretty big audience.

And he says that the Holy Spirit led him to choose profanity so he could reach the world better. It's like, you know, why don't you weave some point into you get a lot more worldly people watching if you do that, I mean, that stuff is so apparent and abominable and unchristian and immature and unholy. You don't become like the world to win the world. That's like you're a fitness trainer. It's like, you know what? I'm going to become really obese so I can help obese people.

No, the way you can help someone who's obese is by being fit yourself and helping them to become fit. You know, I say I'm going to become an alcoholic, drink more so I can help those who are alcoholics know that we can help with alcoholic is by being sober. So this, of course, is complete nonsense. And it's just an excuse for carnality. The prophets, did they did they use profanity?

No, they might talk about, for example, urinating in terms that would would be, you know, very direct, right, urinating against a wall. And the King James translates it one way that we wouldn't say it today. But the Hebrew is there's nothing profane about it.

All right. Paul gives us this this guideline. Ephesians 4 29. Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear.

Profanity does not do that. Then Paul says, but sexual immorality, same thing. Ephesians, now the fifth chapter, and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you as is proper in the saints.

Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. So it's very clear that the words that come out of our mouth should be edifying, should be God glorifying, should bring grace to the hearers. And the very the very fact that certain words are recognized as profane. So where does it say profanity in the Bible? Our culture recognizes words that are unacceptable and you don't find those use those words used to say, well, Philippians three, when Paul's talking about, you know, all my righteousness is just like dung, it's more like C-R-A-P. OK, if you go there, he's not using profanity.

All right. It's very, very different. And that's why everything I'm saying on the air right now, we could air on prime time TV or daytime TV for children and nothing would be bleeped out. But if I was using profanity, it would be bleeped out.

There are cultural things that are recognized. So let nothing unwholesome proceed from your mouth. But but that which is going to minister grace to the hearers, it's just all this is just an excuse for carnality. People say, I'm going to show how spiritual. See, I'm spiritual, not religious. And they'll they'll in the middle of worship, drop some profane thing or after worship, sit around and drop F bombs, all that is is carnality from people whose lives are not fully right with God and are not walking in holiness.

It is that simple. It does not glorify the Lord. It is an outlet for the flesh and it is ultimately destructive. Does not help anybody draw closer to Jesus. Hope that's plain enough.

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Alex in Orlando, Florida. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, God bless you. I've got a question. So I'm part of a ministry, CFM, and we're very jealous for the word. But there's a little bit of a division and it's not the major, but we are kind of in discussion about the name of Jesus in Hebrew. And I've listened to some of your teachings on it. But one of the guys, one of the gentleman's holds to Yahshua, Y-A-H, Shua, and I've showed him your teachings on it. And he says he just doesn't trust you and your teachings on it because there was supposedly a revival of the Hebrew language in the early 1900s, late 1800s, and so he says that the Hebrew language was lost for, I guess, close to two hundred percent complete nonsense.

One million percent complete nonsense. The Hebrew language has been used continuously for thousands of years. It has been used daily in prayer. It has been used daily in study of scripture. It has been used daily in scriptural commentary and on and on in the religious Jewish community for centuries. What was revived was spoken Hebrew, spoken Hebrew as a language that you just chat about, like, what did you watch in sports last night or what do you want to have for dinner or kids, you need to be quiet, you know, it's bedtime. Spoken Hebrew was revived at the turn of the last century, especially under the leadership of Eliezer ben Yehuda.

All right. But Hebrew, in terms of the language itself, is called the Shona Kodesh. In Hebrew, the holy tongue has been actively used, studied. There's literature that's been written for centuries and centuries.

Poetry and commentary. I mean, if we went from my studio here, 10 feet or 20 feet across the hall to my study, I'd show you all kinds of Hebrew books that have been written over the centuries, a thousand years ago, five hundred years ago, two thousand years ago. It has never stopped being used every single day by large numbers of Jews around the world.

It just wasn't a common spoken language, like we'd be speaking, you know, back and forth today just in conversation. So anyone, anyone who knows anything about Hebrew whatsoever knows that to be true. This is not dispute. This is not, this is not a theory I just gave you. As surely as there's a country called the United States of America, everything I just told you about Hebrew is known to anyone who knows anything at all with any accuracy about Hebrew.

That's number one. Number two, we know for sure the ancient pronunciation was not Yeshua. And we know it from ancient sources.

I can be one million percent sure of that as well. How do we know it? Well, we know it because all of the Hebrew vocalization that we have, right, which reflects earlier traditions going back to biblical days, vocalizes the equivalent Hebrew name in the Old Testament, used about 30 times for eight or nine different people as Yeshua, right? Not Yah-shua, but Yeshua.

That's first thing. The second thing, the Greek, the Septuagint, when it translated that and in the same way in the Greek New Testament, so the thousands of manuscripts we have of the Greek New Testament, they all say Yesus. Now, if it was pronounced Yah, then instead of the Greek having iota eta, the Greek would have had iota alpha. And you have words with Yah, like Yavneh, for example, a place called Yavneh. You have names like that in the Hebrew Bible. And when they are transliterated into Greek, they're transliterated as Yah, as opposed to Ye.

Right? So the Greek transliteration is telling you, and the Greek name Yesus is telling you it was not Yah. And then the ancient Syriac has two different pronunciations of Jesus, both of which would reflect the Ye sound, not the Yah sound. So we know without any question that it was not Yah. We also know that Yeshua is short for Yehoshua.

Right? So you do not have Yah as the divine name, the divine particle at the beginning of a Hebrew name. That's not the way it went.

You might have had Yahoo, right? So Yahweh shortened, and then it becoming Yeho, you have some of that. So Yehoshua. But you did not have a name Yahshua anywhere in ancient history, anywhere in the Hebrew Bible, to my knowledge, but anywhere in the history of the Hebrew language.

It is people. You will not find a single academic source in the world, a solid recognized academic source, a solid recognized Hebrew scholar arguing for an ancient pronunciation of Yahshua. The only argument that you'll have among some rabbinic Jews and some Hebrew theologians is whether in the first century the final Ah was clearly heard.

It's what's called a glottal stop or a non-syllabic glide vowel. So Yeshua, was it originally at the time of Jesus, was it clearly pronounced Yeshua or was it simply pronounced Yeshua and the final I and end it there? That's the only debate. And most agree it was Yeshua with that final Ah sound. But no argument that the beginning was not Yah.

I actually almost started to write on this the other day just quite randomly that it's not Yeshua because somebody probably posted it and I saw it again. So hopefully your friend has the humility to recognize that he's completely in error when it comes to to the history of the Hebrew language and that I'm not basing this on modern Hebrew, I'm basing this on ancient Hebrew. I'm basing this on all the Hebrew texts and manuscripts that we have. I'm basing this on the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew Bible. I'm basing this on the Greek New Testament. I'm basing this on the Syriac translation of Peshitta. It's not ambiguous.

It's not debated. There is no such name as Yeshua. And if people want truth, look, you can mispronounce it and God still knows who you're talking about. You can butcher the name and God's not going to not answer your prayer because you butchered the name.

But why not get it right since we have the information? And by the way, Yeshua in Hebrew becomes Yesus in Greek. There is no sh sound in Greek, right? So shlomo, right, which is the Hebrew name for Solomon. The shlomo becomes Solomon. Sha'ul becomes Saul, right, because there is no sh sound in Hebrew. So when you take the Hebrew Yeshua, then go from there into Greek and Greek into Latin and then ultimately into English, Jesus is the way we say it in English. So that's perfectly fine as well.

Jesus in Italian, Jesus in Spanish and various other ways. Thankfully, God knows who we are talking about. There is no ambiguity here. This is not a matter of, well, it could be this.

It could be that. Well, that's the case to tell you. I'll tell you, you know, here's one position. Here's another. I could go either way with it.

No, no, not not here. So hopefully people will just give up this Yeshua nonsense or what other silly names they have. If you want to call him Joshua in full, Yehoshua is the full name.

You know, that's not erroneous. He wouldn't have been known by that. But that's just the full name.

But if I was identified as Mike and people called me Michael, that would be kind of equivalent there. Anyway, say goodbye to the myth of Yeshua. God knows it's a myth. Yeshua knows it's a myth. Why propagate a myth?

It does you no good. All right. I've got a special guest coming on. If I have time, I may get to a few more calls.

If you want to stick around, fine. Otherwise, we'll take some more calls beginning the show tomorrow. We've got another special guest coming right when you come back.

Craig Brown. And now we're going to talk about the new movie between Mercy and me. Hey, friends, this is Dr. Michael Brown, I want to invite you to join our support team, make an investment of one dollar a day that will absolutely last forever.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So I've been getting texts from friends, got a text from our older daughter the other day and older daughter said, Dad, is that you in the movies? One of her friends was in a movie theater and watching movie previews. And she texted Jen, our older daughter said, Jen, is that your dad?

And then got a text from some other friends and they'd taken a screenshot. They said, Doc, was that was that you? So I've got a I've got a little role here in this amazing movie between Mercy and me that is coming out one week from today. So if you're listening live, it's one week from today, June 20th. It's going to be in seven hundred fifty theaters.

I found one about 20 minutes from my house myself. So we want to tell you about it. We want to tell you how you can be part of it and why it is so important. And now the producer, one of the actors in the movie, Craig Brown. Hey, Craig, welcome back to the line of fire. Dr. Brown, how's it going? I'm glad to be here and I'm glad to hear your new thing in the movie theater.

Thanks for allowing me to play a part in such an important movie. But, Craig, let's first talk about you and your wife, Brown and Brown, and how that ties in with the very theme of this movie. Yeah, yeah, my my wife, Caitlin, the name of my pedestrian company is the Brown Brown films. And so Caitlin was her maiden name is Brown. So when we got married, her name didn't change. So she just said Brown Brown and all of her like, you know, social media pages and stuff. So I kind of took the name and ran away with it. But yeah, yeah.

So that's the name Brown Brown. And yeah, and over the past couple of years, we're working on movies and writing. And in the midst of 2020, in the midst of the chaos with COVID and, you know, the death of George Floyd, I could clearly see that there is like a disconnect on how to have a healthy conversation about racial unity. And from there, this movie was born.

I thought the best way to tackle such a heavy conversation was through a love story that was paired with a great music soundtrack and which is like the backbone of the film. So, yeah. And the reason that you might have a little knowledge about having difficult conversations about race in the church is because you and your wife are an interracial couple. Correct. Correct.

Yes. So the movie is played by our two leads, Andrea Summer and David Driscoll, who are black and white. And I yeah, my wife is white and I was although my story is kind of different than the two leads. However, I can definitely, you know, feel the intention of being in an interracial marriage and without places out in society.

However, my my wife's parents are fantastic. However, rest of the culture, you know, could, you know, find some challenges with it as well and having interracial children and stuff. So, yeah, I was able to take some some of my own experiences. But mostly this story really looked at the church when it comes to racial division and how we need to play a part.

Yeah. And the fact is, for the most part, Craig, we're kind of like ships passing each other in the night and either unaware of of one another's positions or each one thinking, well, I'm right or you're missing something, and we we often don't get into one another's worlds. So the movie friends between Mercy and me, so to two worship leaders, singers, white gal, black guy and build a relationship. But then this tension and this misunderstanding and it's clear that, hey, you don't get what's happening in my world kind of thing. It happens a lot more than we realize.

And it can happen right within the church. So so this you know, the movie really is an honest movie. It really is a slice of what's happening, a picture of what's happening in America today. But it's a movie with hope as well. So let's first talk before we get into some of the plot and why, why it's important, why you put this out and why we want everyone to go see this movie. But first, the music, as you said, drives it. You even won an award with the music, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. So it won Best Musical Soundtrack at the International Christian Film Festival last year and some other festival awards in regards to the music as well.

Yeah, right. So the the lead actors both both sing, both play. And this is this is newly written music for the movie.

Yes, yes, yes. So every piece of music that you hear in this film has been specifically crafted for the story. So it's all original music. And it's probably one of the things I'm most proud of.

It is amazing, powerful. And this was done by Andrea Summer and David Driscoll, who were, you know, just just amazing talent to have contribute to the soundtrack and to the story. And it was and we also had a lot of other musicians collaborate as well. And that even includes Grammy nominated recording artists. So, yeah, I mean, it was I knew that the music had to be the thing that was excellent, but also that was ingrained within the story. So, yes, this is a brand new album, 20 original songs that are stellar and very catchy. Yeah, and just some of the melodies going through my mind as I'm sitting here talking to you, because they really do stay with you, so that carries the movie, you know, the narrative, the interaction, the the tense things that build up some of the crisis within the movie.

How's it going to be resolved? It's really carried by the music. And it's amazing that these gifts were used for this musical production, for this for this movie. And there's some other awards you won as well, not just for music, but some other awards that the movie won, correct? Yeah, yeah, it also won best screenplay at the New York Movie Awards.

And there is also some other festivals where we've taken home best musical soundtrack or best feature film or screenplay. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. As you've had other folks watch it from varied perspectives, have they told you that it struck them as real? That this like, hey, this is the world we live in. This is the conversation we need to have. Have you got that kind of feedback?

Yes, yes, yes. So there's been quite a few people who've seen this movie who are leaders within a church who sat down and screened the whole movie for rather is just to give them to present to the church or for endorsements. And these leaders have had amazing things to say about the film because of the issue that it tackles and how it tackles a lot of times with, you know, when racist touch it, you know, kind of done in a harmful way. There's like no goal of unity at the end is just presented just to get a point of cross, like that's not this film. It was it was done very with the intentions to bring people together. And so that's been the response of, you know, a leader to set down to watch this movie and want to take it to their congregations and use it as a ministry tool to help inspire conversations around racial unity.

Yeah. You know, it's an interesting thing, Craig. Let's say you have a tragedy like the killing of George Floyd and then you'll have, say, maybe white conservatives say, look, statistically, and they'll start going through statistics and say, statistically, it's more likely that a black man will be killed by a black cop now, statistically, people not being single that and they'll go through all that and then you'll have a black person say, you just don't get it. You don't know what we've lived through. You don't know our history.

And we don't even trust a lot of the stats because who controls the stats? And we just pass each other instead of first saying, OK, what I what I want to know is so that the the the killing of George Floyd and the sentencing of the different cops involved in what was judged to be his murder. So what I want to find out first is, OK, forget that the race baiter is in the activists trying to stir up trouble and Antifa and all forget forget that radical elements of black lives.

Forget that. I want to find out why this is so traumatic for my black friend. Like, why is this such a fresh wound, an open wound for you? Why is it like you feel like that was your uncle or your father or your brother that that happened to rather than, well, I've got all the statistics here, you know. And yeah, right. But but often we never get that far, you know, or just callers.

One of my friends, dear black friend, he says to me, Mike, there's not a racist bone in your body, but there's a lot you don't know. So we'll talk to me, fill me in. Yeah, I never had certain experiences. Right. And on the other hand, it's like, hey, this is real. But but perhaps things are being exaggerated in your own perception. So you first have to listen, understand and then have a novice conversation. Let me now that I heard your perspective, can I share my perspective?

And that's why we're missing each other, because ultimately we're called to be one in the Lord and we know it's Satan who divides. So this movie is because it's a love story. It's kind of raw.

It kind of you struggle as the relationship gets tense. And it is it is a conversation starter, which is a key reason you put it out. So, so, Craig, I had you on the air previously for a movie that you were in and you contact me one day you had my my personal contact info. You said, hey, Dr. Brown, I put out a movie and I got a I got a role for you to play.

It was it was quite a surprise to get the call and chat with you. But who is who is Harold? I mean, who who is this who is this guy that I play? And again, it's a tiny little role, but the story is kind of weaved through the whole thing. So the others are the stars.

I just get this little little thing in here. But why is Harold important? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Harold is a very important part to the story, even though it's a small role, you know, dialogue wise, but is very crucial to the story. And Harold is a is a British builder, someone who's known both by black and white people who love him within the community. And he's a he's a pillar in the community. And the best way to describe Harold is, you know, someone who looks at what scripture says about unity and that we are to first love God with our whole heart, soul and mind and love our neighbor. And I think Harold embodies that and it's no secret whatsoever.

So, yeah, he was the funnest character to dream up because you're right here. We'll be right back. I want to tell you more about this movie.

Subject of gentrification comes in as well, which is interesting. And then I want to tell you how you can find out where you can see it. Bring a bunch of friends with you. June 20th, between mercy and me, I'll be right back with Craig Brown. Nopalea has helped thousands of people by lowering levels of chronic inflammation. I really enjoy being physical. It's something I've just always loved, but I've definitely had times where it's really crippled me up.

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Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. The new movie between Mercy and me will be in 750 theaters through Fathom Events, June 20th. All right. I'm on with Craig Brown, producer of the movie and also in the movie himself. Craig, how can people see this in the theaters on June 20th? Yes, so first, buy your ticket to fathomevents.com and search between Mercy and me. And there you can enter your zip code and you can search theaters in your area that may be hosting the movie. Or you can go to our website between mercyandme.com and just click tickets and you can do the same thing there as well. Actually, I think it redirects you. But however, you go through those sites and you'll be able to purchase your tickets.

It's one day only on June 20th. And this is definitely a film you want to experience in the theaters. With the soundtrack that we produce, it's made to be witnessed in the theater and also it's just better to watch with a big group of people as we witness. Yeah. And if you go to between mercyandme.com, you can watch the trailer, get a little taste of the music of the movie.

I'm in there for about two seconds as well. But check it out. And then June 20th in the theaters. I hadn't even thought of I think of the big screen. I hadn't even thought about the music on the big screen and with that sound system.

So absolutely the place to be. So the issue of gentrification, what exactly is that and why is that an issue that that often brings up some racial tension? Yeah, yeah, I thought it would be so what I would say, like writing a movie about race is extremely difficult. However, I thought that gentrification would be a good topic to touch on because it is something that can be divisive. So you have two things going on. You have one people who live in impoverished or areas where there's low income, you know, maybe the area isn't as nice and then as soon as more infrastructure comes in, rents get raised and a lot of the people who don't own homes are kind of left like, okay, where do I go now? So that's the real part of it. And I've witnessed it. I've grown up in inner city Detroit.

I've seen it here in Cincinnati. And then there's other part of like, all right, how do we do this in a way that doesn't totally just displace people and we continue the cycle? And I think sometimes in the world and politics in general, we just look at what's going on and say, oh, okay, it's legal. Therefore, we can do it. But however, I think that's something that also deserves a conversation. Not that revitalization in this nature is harmful.

I think there's just better ways to go about it to ensure that there's to consider the people in those areas. So you can see the tension with this in the story, but also it challenges all of us. How do we respond in moments like this where we feel threatened? Or how do we respond to moments if you're a white person?

If you've been labeled a racist because of your status, how do we respond? And that was the point of it. And as a writer and director, I wanted people to think, like, what should your response be in these moments? Yeah, and you play an important role in this. So the two stars of the movie, Hugo and Mercy, they do a great job. In fact, the one scene where I interact with both of them and Hugo's a little upset with me.

And we're getting ready to go through multiple times, different angles and all of this going through the lines and delivering them differently, et cetera, as you do in the movie set. And because he's upset, because of my particular stance that I have. And I kept feeling like he's mad at me. But before we would start to see him, like, why is he mad at me? Because he's about to be acting because we're sitting like, he looks mad. It's like, yeah, he's mulling this over.

He's in the role in the moment. But as Hugo's older, as Hugo's brother, you're not particularly happy with career choices he makes, but we're not particularly happy with him dating this this white girl. And you speak up about it. Your mom in the movie is trying to be more moderate and so on.

But, you know, you carry that well. Obviously, you've heard these kinds of things on both sides of interracial relations, maybe not in your own life, but the others. These are very real issues to this.

Strangely, to this day in America, these are still issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fun playing that character because, like I've heard both sides and the character I play, I would say, I would say he's a bad guy, but he's definitely not likable when you first meet him. But and that's what I'm going to do. I wanted people to kind of like to hear, you know, some of the things that these characters are saying in the movie. I want them to hear that and then kind of reflect, like, oh, I've said this thing and this is how this person can feel in this moment, because I think the narrative can be sometimes that, you know, I've I've heard it said like, you know, like black people can't be racist because because of the obvious obvious history.

Right. But that's not true. Like I can be I can be hateful. I can isolate someone who's white and make them feel less than I can make them feel. I can I can label them as a racist, but that that's not OK, that and that's not the truth. So, you know, and that was a point of this character in particular, someone who's black and very proud and it may be a little racist. And so is that like we're not without sin. So and that was like kind of the approach of the film.

I wanted it to be balanced, but I also wanted to tell truth so that we can get to a place where we can have more productive movement in regards to racial unity. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, Craig, the Jesus Revolution movie that came out, the story of Greg Laurie and what happened in Jesus Revolution, Lonnie Frisbee and stuff. I was reading the producers were talking about it and they said, hey, we basically made a movie that people would want to see because we told stories about people that you get interested in. And I'm paraphrasing what they said. In other words, it was like we have a message we want to get across is like we want a movie that's going to interest you and draw you in and and get you involved with people. So you want to know about these people.

You want to follow this. So by making this a love story that gets challenged and I'm not giving a spoiler alert because I'm not going to reveal what ends up happening, good or bad. But you you want to you want to see the racial misunderstandings overcome because it seems like this couple is supposed to be together. And that's really God's heart. When you step we talk about abstract issues, but when you have a couple and a relationship that breaks down because of misunderstanding and racial tension, you know, it's not supposed to be like that.

And that's kind of a microcosm of the body. So emotionally, you want you want it to work, which means, OK, we have to have the conversations then and we have to be honest with each other and we have to help one another see each other's blind spots so we can have God's heart. And that's what I believe the movie does emotionally in a good way, because you identify either both sides or one side or the other with with you go with mercy, with the families, with the churches, it's like I want to see this work.

And that's hard for his people, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, that was the main goal as I was, you know, in many, many, many, many late nights writing it. Like, you know, just asking God, like, how how do we make this accessible?

How do we make this film resonate with the church, the Big C church, like in regards to, you know, this this topic? So, yeah, yeah, I know that was my hope in each scene is that, you know, we could see ourselves in these positions, but also that we could also see the beauty that can come when we choose to, you know, fight for love. And that's that's the love story part of this. They're fighting for love. Yeah, and it's love that ultimately is God's heart and that calls us to unite. And Jesus says that the world will know you're my disciples, love one another, you have love one for another. So go to either Fathom Events dot com and then search for Between Mercy and Me.

Go ahead and buy your tickets. We did an eblast to our email list. We've been posting on social media. Get the word out or go to Between Mercy and Me. So you go and Mercy, that's the couple involved.

Between Mercy and Me. Go there. Check out the trailer.

I think it'll get your interest. Look for a theater near you. Seven hundred fifty theaters across America. One night only June 20th. Between Mercy and Me dot com. Check it out and I'll I'll be there. Oh, I play a little role, but oh, something happens to me that's pretty rough.

Yeah, you'll have to go see it yourself. And captivating ending as well. Hey, Craig, thanks for allowing me to be part of this. It was a real honor and joy. And pray for great, great success on the movie on June 20th. God bless you, brother.

Absolutely. God bless you as well. Thank you. All right.

Yeah, you heard it first and you heard it loudly and clearly. Hey, don't forget to give me great resources during what is called Pride Month, a book, Can You Be Gay and Christian? Super important read for you. Critically important read. And you get it for free when you get the book.

My debate with Rabbi Shmueli about homosexuality in America. Call eight hundred five three eight fifty two seventy five. Eight hundred fifty three. Excuse me, five three eight fifty two seventy five. Another program powered by the Truth Network.