The Error of Dual Covenant Theology

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Happy Jewish Thursday.

Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. Here's a number to call for all of your Jewish related questions. 866-348-7884. It can be about Israel today. It can be about messianic prophecy. It can be about Jewish background to the New Testament, Hebrew language, Jewish religion, tradition, messiahship of Jesus, Yeshua. Give me a call.

866-348-7884. And as always, to my Jewish listeners who do not agree with me theologically, who do not worship God in the same way that I do, who do not relate to the Torah in the same way that I do, who do not believe in Jesus the same way that I do, you are welcome to call in and share your differences and we can have some friendly discussion. A little later in the show, I'm going to take you through an article on All Israel News that is raising further concerns about Christian nationalism. I just want you to see the way this is playing out Christian nationalism in the bad sense of the term, but you're going to hear more and more about it as the secular media is going to put the worst spin on these things, so we need to be alert, aware, and also understanding how these things are playing out in the Jewish world. Very, very important to understand that.

We're going to focus first on an important teaching. I've talked about it before on the air, but I want to get into that a little further today. Before I do, I had a guest on the show yesterday, so I didn't talk about this, but yesterday marks eight years of healthy eating by the grace of God. So got rid of all the bad stuff, no sugar, unhealthy sweets, fried stuff, pizza, pasta, cheeses, all the breads, so no dairy, no flour, no sugar. I don't salt things, use minimal salt, and foods that I do eat have a little grilled meat, maybe grilled chicken, on average every week or two, but massive amount of plant-based organic nutrition, and if you just want to get an update on how wonderful I feel by the grace of God, by the grace of God, go to my latest article on short-term gratification versus long-term satisfaction. Short-term gratification versus long-term satisfaction.

By all means, check it out on our website AskDrBrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. You'll be blessed, you'll be encouraged, not just in terms of healthy eating and living, but making quality decisions today that will bless you long-term. You can do things now that will bring temporary gratification, satisfaction for the moment, a feeling of relief or release or good, I did it, but long-term you'll regret it. There are things you can do today where you say no to the flesh, no to the moment, no to the pressure, no to the temptation, but long-term you are so glad that you did.

So check out the article, I believe it will bless you and encourage you. People say, well, Mike, you're very disciplined, I could never live the way you live, you're a super disciplined person. Well, by God's grace, in many ways I am disciplined, and I have been consistent in a very disciplined way for years, by God's grace. But if I was so disciplined, why did it take me 59 years to get things right? Fifty-nine years, all right? And that was always trying to be disciplined in certain areas.

That was always cutting back here, cutting back here, saying no here, saying no there, always trying, but obviously fighting a losing battle for 59 years. You're not going to be a chocoholic for most of your life if you're so disciplined. So yes, I've been very disciplined in other areas of my life, and I'm thankful to God for that, and these last eight years, been super disciplined, and I'm super thankful for that, but please hear me, I know me, I know me, to an extent at least, God knows me better.

If God could help me live like this, he could help anyone live like this. It's his grace. Is his grace not enough?

How about that question? Is his grace not enough? Okay, dual covenant theology.

What is it? Dual covenant theology, and I'm going to put some notes up for those watching, but everybody else, you hear me loud and clear. Dual covenant theology is the teaching that Jews do not need Jesus in order to be saved, since they already have a covenant with God through Abraham and under Moses, and if they're faithful to that covenant, they can live and die in right relationship with God. Now, there are variations of dual covenant theology today which either state that there's no need to evangelize the Jewish people, since they'll all be saved when Yeshua returns, or that state that Jewish people can't be held responsible for rejecting him when he came. Dual covenant theology today is common in liberal Christian circles, and little by little, little by little, in Christian Zionist circles. So the question is, why do people hold to dual covenant theology? There are several possible motivations behind dual covenant theology, all of which come down to a love for the Jewish people that is not scripturally accurate.

So it's based on love. It's based on love for the Jewish people, and even esteem for the Jewish people, but it's not scripturally accurate. For the most part, it's only Gentile Christians, as opposed to Messianic Jews, who hold to dual covenant theology. So some believers have a hard time with the concept of anyone being lost, in particular a religious Jew, and then, by extension, any Jew. I mean, after all, are the Jews the chosen people? Some believers are so grieved by the history of Christian anti-Semitism that they feel embarrassed even to share the Gospel with Jewish people.

They've over-repented. Since the Holocaust, and in light of European Christianity's ugly history of anti-Semitism, which prepared the ground for the Holocaust – excuse me – a new era of sensitivity has arisen in which it is considered almost immoral to tell Jewish people that they need Jesus to be saved. And then, some believers are moved by the beauty of Judaism, and the power of Jewish tradition, and believe that Jews have a valid way to God outside of Jesus, who is for the Gentiles, not the Jews. And so dual covenant theology can be an extreme reaction to the error of replacement theology – supersessionism – that says the Church has replaced Israel. So this quote provides a good illustration. This is a statement by a Christian scholars group on Christian-Jewish relations cited in the book edited by John Merkel, Faith Transformed, Christian Encounters with Jews in Judaism.

Here's the statement. God's covenant with the Jewish people endures forever. For centuries, Christians claimed that their covenant with God replaced or superseded the Jewish covenant.

We renounce this claim. We believe that God does not revoke divine promises. We affirm that God is in covenant with both Jews and Christians.

Tragically, the entrenched theology of supersessionism continues to influence Christian faith, worship, and practice, even though it has been repudiated by many Christian denominations and many Christians no longer accept it. Our recognition of the abiding validity of Judaism has implications for all aspects of Christian life. And in addition to this, for some, it's a subtle and often unconscious reason for holding to dual covenant theology. It avoids the offense of the cross. Paul writes about that in a different context. Galatians 5-11, Galatians 6-12.

So I'm going to unpack these things a little bit more, but let me keep going first. What are the dangers of dual covenant theology? What's so wrong about what we just read? Again, we need to understand this. This theology has arisen out of love for Jewish people, out of esteem for Jewish people, out of grief over Christian antisemitism and Christian triumphalism in the past, especially in the aftermath of the horrors of the Holocaust, which even though Nazism was anti-Christian, the Holocaust could not have taken place without many centuries of Christian antisemitism in Europe. So that provided the ground on which the Holocaust could grow ideologically and then in its evil actions. So people grieved over that. People saw Jewish spirituality during the Holocaust.

And look, it is a totally fair question to ask. Oh, so you're telling me that the Jews who worship God and recited the Shema and secretly found ways to observe the Passover and the horrors of the Holocaust, that they go to hell because they didn't believe in your Jesus, and the Jesus that they knew was the Jesus that the Nazis professed? Remember, many of the Nazis professed to be Christians. They put out their own edition of the New Testament, taking away Jewish aspects of it, which meant taking away key passages, like the salvation of the Jews in John chapter 4, verse 22.

There was an Aryan Jesus that they created, no longer a Jewish Jesus but an Aryan Jesus. So these are totally fair questions to ask, all right? And if you don't ask them, I think you're being very narrow. If you don't ask them, I think you're being insensitive and you may be loving God with your mind but not with your mind and your heart.

Very fair to ask these questions. And what about the enduring covenant? The covenant does endure. The Jewish people remain chosen. The Jewish people still have covenantal promises and those covenantal promises will result in national salvation at the end of the age.

I truly believe that. The question is, because the Jewish people are still chosen, therefore there is still a responsibility to the God of Israel. How does a Jewish person come into right relationship with the God of Israel? Can it be done through the Sinai Covenant or has the Sinai Covenant failed because of Jewish disobedience and God instituted a new and better covenant through the Messiah? And if we reject the Messiah, then we reject God's grace.

Those are the deeper questions that we need to ask. So again, I understand what is behind dual covenant theology and I appreciate the sentiment. I appreciate the repudiation of replacement theology, supersessionism. I appreciate the recognition of the horrors of Christian antisemitism in church history where they exist. I appreciate the recognition of those. I appreciate the desire to affirm the eternal covenants that God made with Israel. I appreciate the recognition that there can be a Jewish spirituality that in many ways is rich and beautiful. I grieve over the fact that the heart and soul of God's plan for the Jewish people culminates in Jesus the Messiah. And when we reject him, we reject God's mercy, we reject God's voice, we reject God's prophet. So we'll talk about this a little more.

What are some of the dangers of dual covenant theology? And then we'll get through calls. 866-348-7884. Any Jewish-related question, phone lines are open. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. You've got Jewish-related questions. We'll do our best to give you solid answers.

866-348-7884. Go to the phones in a little while, but back to dual covenant theology. Let me go through the dangers of dual covenant theology.

Again, for those watching, we'll put some notes up for you. The primary dangers of dual covenant theology are that 1. Jews will be given a false assurance of salvation. 2. Christians will not share their faith with Jews.

I've seen this among many who identify as Christian Zionists. 3. Jewish believers in Yeshua will be ostracized by the Church and criticized for being proselytizers and targeting Jews. 4.

The return of Yeshua will potentially be delayed because Israel will not be called to repent and to welcome back the Messiah. So what are the alleged biblical foundations for dual covenant theology? 1. The immutable nature of the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants.

2. The future promise that all Israel will be saved. Romans 11 26.

3. Statements like, If the root is holy, so also are the branches. Romans 11 16. So what are the answers to dual covenant theology?

1. If Yeshua is not the Messiah of Israel, he's the Messiah of Noah. If he did not come first and foremost for his own people, then he didn't come for anybody. You have to reject the entire witness of the New Testament then. 2. The Gospels to the Jew first.

When did that change? Romans 1 16. So you can have dual covenant theology only if you throw out the New Testament. 3. No one can be saved by the works of the law. And there's no atonement for the Jewish people outside of Yeshua's blood. 4. The reality of divine judgment on the Jewish people in the first century because of the rejection of Yeshua tells us that this was a grievous thing in God's sight with great consequences. 5. The consistent testimony of the book of Acts calls for Jewish repentance and speaks of Jewish guilt.

So the Jewish leaders who rejected Yeshua have put the nation in a bad situation in which case there needs to be Jewish repentance and acknowledging him as the Messiah. 6. Paul's broken heart because of the lost state of his people. Romans 9 indicates that Jewish people outside of Yeshua are lost.

7. The testimony of Jewish believers today like me. Jesus saved us. Jesus saved us. He's the one that transformed us. Why?

Because he's the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of the world. Alright, hopefully that is helpful. If you have questions, need more clarification, we can gladly get into things in greater depth. But we will go to the phones. Let's start in Knightville, North Carolina. Natalie, you are on the line of fire. Hi, can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Okay, so my question refers to Ezekiel 45.22. I've seen where Jewish people use this verse basically to refuse Jesus' atoning sacrifice. They see it as—the verse basically says that the prince will do a sin sacrifice for himself and for the people, and they see this as a future event, like the restoration of Jerusalem. So how would you interpret that? Like, kind of to refute the same thing.

Sure. So all of our listeners understand, if we say that Jesus died once and for all for the sins of the world, and thereby fulfilled the meaning and purpose of the sacrificial system, then why in the millennial temple, after Jesus returns, will there be sin offerings offered up for the prince, the leader of the people, and for the nation of Israel as a whole? So there are several potential answers.

I say potential because all of them have truth. The first answer is that this has nothing to do with forgiveness of sins, but rather cleansing. That the sin offering had various functions, but that this is simply an offering for ritual cleansing, for various forms of impurity to be removed, and that that's all that it stands for. The gentleman that I know, who I would say is the foremost Christian authority on the Old Testament sacrificial system, and on the book of Leviticus today, he believes that's the case. That there will be a millennial temple, there will be sacrifices, but these are the same as Old Testament sacrifices that were not for atonement and forgiveness, because not every sacrifice is for atonement or forgiveness, and that it simply has ritual and purification purposes. That's the first thing. And Hebrews 9 even talks about those things that would sanctify the flesh, that would purify the flesh so that you were now in a situation to worship God because you would remove certain impurities.

So that's one very viable option. The second is similar, which is that throughout history, God only forgave sin based on Messiah's blood, that the sacrifices were types and symbols that pointed forward to his blood, but that God will not forgive human sin based on an animal sacrifice, but on the Messiah's sacrifice, God in the flesh dying on our behalf. So these future sacrifices would look back to the cross, just as earlier sacrifices looked ahead to the cross.

So that's another totally valid interpretation. The last point is this, that Ezekiel 40-48 presents difficulties for everybody. In context, that was the temple the Jewish people were supposed to rebuild, coming back from Babylon, with the glory of God upon them.

God even talks to Ezekiel about his role in it, and you will do this, and you will do that. There are even Jewish interpreters, Natalie, that say this is a proof of the resurrection of the dead, because it speaks of Ezekiel's activity in this temple, and it's a future temple, but in context, Ezekiel showed it to the people in exile so they would be ashamed and realize how God wanted to restore them to the land based on their repentance. The other thing is that the dimensions laid out here do not match the dimensions of the Tabernacle-slash-temple in the Old Testament. And there's a rabbinic tradition that one rabbi stayed up night after night after night after night after night, just going through lots of oil, keeping the lamps burning, and he figured out a way to reconcile all the figures, but his research has been lost. Bottom line is there is no living human being who has reconciled the dimensions of this temple with the dimensions of the biblical Tabernacle-slash-temple.

Why is that an issue? Because for a traditional Jew, the Torah is the eternal blueprint. The messianic temple will be a glorious replica of the earlier temple. It will just be messianic, but it will be the same dimensions and the same functions and things like that. So how do they reconcile it?

It's a question mark. So it tells me that we have to be very careful in looking ahead to future prophecy. Sometimes these are templates that unfold in different ways. Many Christians believe this is all a spiritual picture of worship and intimacy with God, and that there won't be a physical, literal temple, that these are all spiritual images presented in priestly language. And it's a future event, so there can be debate about it. But for those of us that do believe that there'll be a physical temple built in the Millennial Kingdom and the Messiah will rule and reign over the earth from Jerusalem, either the first two interpretations or possibilities are completely valid. Either the sacrifices are not related to forgiveness of sins, they have to do with other aspects of purification and cleansing, or they point back to the Messiah's death just as the earlier sacrifices pointed forward to his death.

Either of those, certainly a viable option. And if a traditional Jew really presses to say, okay, well, before we talk about that, let's just talk about the dimensions. How do you reconcile that they change what's in the Torah? Did Ezekiel have the authority to do that? And then he'd have to say, well, we have some questions. No, we all have some questions. Fair enough. It's future stuff. We all have some questions.

That's how I deal with it. Okay, thank you. Sure thing.

One last thing, Natalie. In Volume 2 of Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, I take this issue up as well. And if you want a short answer, go to RealMessiah.com. RealMessiah.com. And look through the objections and you'll see this listed among theological objections. Hey, thank you so much for the call and the question.

866-348-7884. Can you believe that we are already in August 2022? Yeah, it seems to me that the time even went faster during the COVID years and now where we are now. Before you know it, it's going to be May 2023. And some of you that I'm talking to right now, we're going to be, God willing, in Israel together. And we're going to be at some of the most amazing sites and locations you've ever seen. And one of the early days we make our way up to Mount Carmel and look out at Armageddon. And I get to do a teaching because this is the place where Elijah called on fire from heaven. There's even a statue remembering him.

And I think it's inscribed in English, Hebrew, maybe Arabic, Latin, about Elijah. Yeah, it's just so unreal to be there. So if you're planning on going, want to go now is the time to get your deposit and go to AskDrBrown.org, right on our homepage. You'll see it first or second slide that'll come up on our AskDrBrown.org homepage. Okay, we come back. I'm going to go right back to the phones and then, then I'm going to talk to you about some Jewish perspectives and other Christian perspectives on a dangerous Christian nationalist. We've been talking about it before.

We're going to revisit it today. Stay right here. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The God of Israel is worthy of all praise, honor, and glory.

Yeshua came into the world to point all people to his Heavenly Father. 866-34-TRUTH. You've got Jewish-related questions, we've got answers.

Let's go to Michael in Boston, Massachusetts. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, how are you?

Doing really well, thank you. So my question is about Exodus 13, too. I was just wondering if you could, like, explain it a little better or expand on it more. When it says, Consecrate to me all the firstborn, whoever is the first to open the womb among the people of Israel, both man and of thief, is mine. Yep. So...

I would... Go ahead. Oh, okay. So originally when I first read it, I was thinking it obviously can't be talking about any sort of sacrifice, because if I'm not mistaken, like, human sacrifice is detestable to God. Yes, absolutely detestable to God, 100%. So he is saying, they belong to me, right? Firstborn male, every human being, firstborn male animal, goat, sheep, etc., sacrifice to the Lord. So what about the people? So the Levites took the place of the people, and the people would then pay a certain amount, here's the firstborn male, it was their contribution to support the Levites, because the tribe of Levi took the place, and how did they take the place? By being sacrificed? No, by being involved in God's service. So God judged the firstborn of Egypt because of their sin, God said that Israel was his firstborn son, and therefore God demanded the firstborn to be consecrated to him, but with human beings it was not to be sacrificed, it was to be in his service, and since the Levites were the ones who were trained and equipped to be in his service and separated for that purpose, they then took the place of the individual Israel.

But when you have your firstborn son, you would then make a certain donation, and that donation then went to the support of the Levites who took the place of the firstborn males. Oh, gotcha, thank you. Yep, you are very very welcome, thanks for asking. 866-348-7884, let's go to Jeremiah in Seattle, welcome to the line of fire.

Thank you. I'm kind of wondering about the Jewish viewpoint and theology on salvation without obviously Jesus and Messiah, and without the Temple currently being built, how they perceive forgiveness. Yes, so first is that your average Jewish person is not thinking about salvation the way a Christian is. In other words, they're thinking more, we're talking about a religious Jew, right, someone's practicing their faith, first they're thinking more in a corporate way about the nation of Israel, and then second, they're thinking about honoring God, pleasing God, and if they do wrong, receiving forgiveness, but not so much forgiveness for the afterlife, but forgiveness to be in right relationship with God now.

So there's less emphasis on the afterlife. And while we're here, a traditional Jew would believe that the number one thing God requires from them is repentance, and that if they sin against God and repent and ask for forgiveness, he's merciful and compassionate, he'll forgive. You say yeah, but there's no blood atonement. So Jews would not put emphasis on blood atonement the same way Christians would. They say it was important, but the bigger issue was, was repentance. Now that we don't have a Temple, they would say that God accepts prayer, so prayer is one of the things that we have instead of blood sacrifice in Jewish tradition. Acts of charity, even suffering that we pass through in this world can go towards our forgiveness, and that every year on the Day of Atonement, corporately and individually, we ask God for forgiveness, believing in the power of repentance and prayer, and then in the afterlife, it is believed that there is some type of purging.

It's not exactly the same as Catholic purgatory, and there is a time limit on it, basically 11 months, but that even a godly person, unless they are in the highest echelon of spirituality and righteousness, that they will not go straight to heaven, that they will pass through a time of purification and purging for sin, at which point they will be refined and ready to enter into God's heavenly presence. So that's how it would work out for a traditional Jew, but again, the concept would be more on day-to-day obedience, honoring God, living a life that's pleasing to him by obeying his commandments in light of the traditions, being part of the corporate well-being of Israel, and then asking for forgiveness, which is done every day. Traditional Jews asking for forgiveness in their standard prayers through the day, and that would be the biggest thing. This is the foundation of it, and the idea of, I'm saved, meaning my sins have been forgiven in a permanent way, and now it's just an ongoing way of fellowshipping with God, if sin comes up it's removed, that is not a Jewish concept, a traditional Jewish concept. The only thing near it would be if someone was living a secular life, right, a worldly life as a Jew, and then they became a Baal Teshuvah, which is someone that turns back to tradition.

The Jewish tradition says it's like they were born anew, like children. But otherwise there's not this idea of, I got saved last night, praise God I've been saved for ten weeks, that would be looked at as more of a Christian concept than a Jewish concept. Interesting, because I guess I come from both sides where I do believe in salvation, but I do also agree with that first part you said, where you ask for forgiveness to make it right with God, to have that relationship built, because I see that in the Old Testament where they would do different washings to be right with God, not for salvation but just to be there with God, and I think that's really important, and maybe Christians don't emphasize enough with that, as the goal is not to get to heaven, the goal is to be with God, whether it's on earth or somewhere else.

Yes, so it's definitely both and. In other words, repentance is essential, the blood of Jesus is essential, and we can, because we're all fallen, when we come into that right relationship with God and enter into new covenant life, it is that born anew, born again, I've been saved experience, but now we walk with God on a daily basis, we fellowship with him on a daily basis where we fall short, we receive cleansing afresh, so it's not the cleansing of salvation, it's the cleansing of getting our feet dirty walking in this world. Hey, thank you for the question, much appreciated.

Thank you. Yeah, and remember friends, you'll find a lot of answers, especially things relating to Jesus being the Messiah and theological differences, on the Real Messiah website, realmessiah.com. Share it with your Jewish friends, and on a regular basis, we get folks asking us questions about Rabbi Tovias Singer. He basically, putting out a flood of videos, every one of which attacks the New Testament, attacks Jesus, attacks Messianic prophetic understanding of Jesus, attacks Christian understanding of scripture, and I know it just because in my video feeds on YouTube, because I've engaged him at different times, so I guess they come up, you know, we've done videos refuting him, that it seems almost like on a daily basis, there's another one, there's another one, there's another one. We are, I'm just setting aside now the next few of his videos that we want to refute, and again, each one has stuff that you just see and think, what in the world? How could you be, what?

I mean, so easy to demolish, and he's a man that's said these things for years and has a lot of information in his head, but to so grossly represent things. You know, to say that the Last Supper is human cannibalism, and that that's what Christians are practicing is human cannibalism. It's like, what? How could you possibly say those words if you're even trying to rightly understand the text, which is explicitly symbolic. When Jesus said at the Last Supper, this is my body, this is my blood, what did they eat? Did he slice off a piece of his flesh? No, they ate the bread, the unleavened bread, and they drank the wine, which symbolized his body. They didn't actually eat his flesh and drink his blood, he was talking metaphorically, plainly, plainly, and yet, it's human cannibalism. So what grieves me is that you have Christians who get confused.

There's this rabbi speaking very forcefully that they want to honor God, they love God, so we hear from him all the time. But we've got our first, how many videos is it? Let me just check. Did we put out 11 so far, or 12?

And we've got a really good development going on, thanks to your funding and help, that's going to help us get these out in Israel with Hebrew captions. Let's just see here. Okay, find answers, I've just got to look to see.

Wait, okay, all I have to do is just scroll down, I didn't have to go anywhere. Okay, yeah, so the Answering the Rabbi series, go to RealMessiah.com if you've been confused by some of his stuff, and it's so easy to rebut. And we try to put out videos in a really quality way with excerpts from his, and then here are the sources, if you don't believe me, here, look, look, look. And you say, but what does the Bible say? You give sources what the rabbis say. I give sources from what the rabbis say when Tovius Singer rejects a Christian interpretation, the rabbis have said the exact same thing!

You make it like Paul made it up, or some Christian made it up, and your rabbis are saying the exact same thing. But let's just see how many, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, yeah, we've got 12 videos we've put out detailed refutations demolishing his errors, demolishing them. Say, Dr. Brown, why don't you debate him? I'd debate him in a heartbeat, he's refused to debate me for decades, going back since our last debate in the early 90s, we're talking 30 years now of refusing to debate me. And just so you know, just so you know, I'm bringing this up because people ask a lot, and because he is the only rabbi that I know who has given himself to attacking Christianity day and night as his sacred mission. And of course we pray for his repentance and for mercy in his life, but I've had it happen where his people contacted someone, college campus, and they said, we'd like to have a debate with Rabbi Singer, professor, someone that you get, and they said, hey, we're happy to host it, and we'll look into getting someone, and they contacted me and said, will you debate him? I said, of course, but he won't debate me. They said, no, we won't have the event, and they walk away. Well, it's happened quite a few times over the years.

And then he'll often pick a Christian that's never even done a debate on the subject. You think, why? Why?

What are you running from? Let the truth come to light. So friends, go to realmessiah.com. We've got these first 12 videos out, and trust me, they demolish the false narratives he's putting forward, and they're thoroughly based on scripture. So check these out, realmessiah.com. Just slide down, scroll down to answering the rabbis. We'll be right back with some important news, and then some more calls.

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I just want to listen to this music. Welcome to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday, 866-348-7884. Those of you who just heard the ad for Dr. Stengler's products, go to vitaminmission.com. This is part of my daily regimen, taking some of his healthy supplements to add to my healthy lifestyle. And Dr. Stengler, some of his family, they'll be with us, God willing, in Israel next year. We even plan to do an Ask the Doctors night with Dr. and Mrs. Dr. Stengler. Yeah, it's going to be great. Health questions, nutrition questions, all kinds of things. So we're going to do that.

That's one of the bonus things added in to this year's trip, next year's trip. There's an article on allisrael.com. Check it out.

Allisrael.com. Christian Nationalist Rhetoric in 1930s Germany. Christian Nationalist Rhetoric in 1930s Germany.

Subtitled Christian Messianic Leaders Sound the Alarm About Political Movement Charged with Anti-Semitism. Here's a tweet from gab.com. It was Nicole Jancisian. I've interacted with Nicole.

I have to ask her how to pronounce her last name. Posted August 24th. Look at this tweet from gab.com. This is meant to be a conservative answer to Twitter. We're building a parallel Christian society because we are fed up and done with the Judeo-Bolshevik one. In other words, the problem in America today is a Jewish problem. That Jews are espousing some types of communism, Marxism, and controlling the country and bring it in the wrong direction and we need a Christian alternative. This is the stuff that gets really, really dangerous. This is the stuff that appeals to right wing militaristic Christians and that ends with blood being shed. It's happened before. This is not our first time at this dance. Terribly dangerous, terribly irresponsible.

That's why we've called it out, written about it, and we'll do some more in the future. And again to Andrew Torba, if this gets to you and you feel you're being misrepresented or feel that you have a case to make that you can back, you're welcome on the air with me to have a cordial, honest discussion. And I do this as a follower of Jesus. He is central in my life.

He is all in all to me. And I preach Jesus to my Jewish people as well as to the Gentile world. And as someone deeply grieved over where the left is taking America.

And recognizing that many Jews are part of the radical left. Recognize all of that and categorically reject these types of messages that are being put forth. I'm here to talk to you off the air, behind the scenes, in confidence where neither of us report on the conversation unless we agree. I've got nothing to prove here, but I will sound the alarm.

I will sound the alarm. So friends, check the article out, allisrael.com, and you'll see a whole bunch of quotes. I'm quoted a lot and there are some others are as well. I think you'll find some striking and concerning parallels. Alright, let's go to John in St. Mary, Georgia.

Welcome to the line of fire. Oh, Dr. Brown, thank you for taking my call. I have to admit that listening to you for the last 20 minutes or so, I found one thing now that we disagree on. I believe when Jesus said, it is my body and my blood, it really is his body and his blood.

But that's not my call today. So from, oh, I'm sorry, I'm looking at the picture and his time-lapse. So Daniel 8, 13 and 14, the 2300 days, I was in Luke 21, 24, talking about the, until the time that the Entiles had been fulfilled, my cross-country put me back there.

So I'll just get to the root of it. December 6th, if you take, I thought the 2300 days was an odd number. Um, but if you go back to December 6th, 2017, when president Trump, um, signed the document making Israel, Jerusalem, the capital of Israel and saying, we're going to move our embassy there. You add 2300 days to that, you come up to Purim 3, 24, 20, 24. And, um, and you know, so I was up early.

My, uh, as, uh, as, uh, the Bible says, sleep deserted me. Uh, and I was up on 3, 22, 22. And I find this combination from December 6th, 2017, the day that president Trump find that added the 2300 days and it comes up to 23, 24, 24.

And, and, uh, and I said, you know, Lord, that's kind of thin. And then he showed me, I said, well, when is pro first I went to Passover in 2024. That was in April, but Purim is the same day.

You add 20, 2300 days to December 6th, 2017, and you get 3, 24, 24. That seems like more than a coincidence to me. And then as a follow on, once you get in Daniel eight, and I probably won't make a lot of friends here.

When you look at verses 23 through 25, it seems like president Trump could certainly fit into that, um, that guy with, uh, who's very shrewd. And so just your opinion, I don't know if you've heard it like this about this 2300 days from that, December 6th. Right. So, so first I, I absolutely appreciate the fact that you're digging into the word and ask you, okay, it's written there. What does it mean?

First thing? Oh, just to back up, let's say you're Catholic with the body and blood of Jesus. You are not practicing human cannibalism in your mind. No, I'm not. Okay. So just want to just want to clarify that we agree. We categorically reject human cannibalism. So I knew as I was saying that that my Catholic listeners would hear a certain thing, but we all repudiate human cannibalism.

Okay. So back to the point, the reason I don't go along with this line of thought, although it's very interesting to see the way it plays out is number one, it's talking about a time with a temple functioning and offerings being forsaken because of what's going on. A situation we're not in now, that's first thing. Second, most scholars understand 2300 to be speaking of total days and nights, in other words, 1150 actual days, which is a little over three years. And in the initial interpretation, they look at this as something that happened during the days of Antiochus Epiphanes in the 160s BC, and basically from the time that he desecrated the altar to the time that the Maccabees restored it, it's a roughly three year period. So they see it as applying to that, and then my argument would be certainly there can be an end time application of something with the Antichrist in the future with the temple standing.

That could be when the covenant's broken with Israel and Israel recognizes he's a false messiah, whatever. So that's, John, that's how I would understand it. So it's very interesting that these things have that 2300 day distance based on your account, I haven't looked at it myself, but I just don't see the larger passage talking about this, and it seems to be very specific.

So 2300 evenings and mornings, it's an unusual way of describing things, that's why most take it to me in 1150 total days, which is a little over three years. Anyway, keep wrestling with it, that's my input on it, and I appreciate the call. My brother, God bless you. And let us go to Judy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Time is short, so dive right in, please.

Hi, very quickly, I have a short comment, love your program. I've been also riveted by watching the rabbi that you've mentioned, he is twisting the truth by just, you know, coming short of the truth, which is worse than a blatant lie. However, concerning the resurrection, now we have something phenomenal that we can also bring up, and now the evidence is so mind-blowing, the Shroud of Turin is virtual proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yeah, so Judy, we had some scholars on to talk about the Shroud of Turin. There is a woman journalist, conservative journalist, who is a Messianic Jewish Catholic, and she is absolutely a proponent of the validity of the Shroud of Turin, and so we had some guests on to talk about it, and we raised some of the common questions that come up. The only people that I know that studied it intensively, that really looked at it, that really asked difficult questions and gave some time to it, believe it's real. Of course, there are many who reject it and are skeptical, and there are all kinds of counter-arguments that can be raised. In fact, some people were upset with me that I didn't bring the counter-arguments up strongly enough when I had guests on, but I was seeking to have a balanced discussion, raise issues, let them to refute the issues, etc. Because I've never investigated it, and did I miss, I probably missed the window to go see the replica in the Museum of the Bible. I thought I wanted to do it, then time flies by.

So if the exhibit's still up, I need to get there. But anyway, I've not studied it. I have not studied it in any depth. I cannot make an academic comment of any value to it. There are things I can speak to with some degree of authority because of studying, looking at it, knowing things.

That's not one of them. But I encourage everyone to look into it. There is so much about it that it's absolutely fascinating that I encourage you to look into it. Does this give us physical proof, if not absolute proof because you don't know that you know Jesus?

No other way to explain it, except it was him. Does it present that? It's absolutely worth checking out. Remember to go to the website, friends. RealMessiah.com. Send your friends there. It is a rich website waiting for you and all the material there is free. Back with you tomorrow.