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Diving Into the World of Judaism

The Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown
The Truth Network Radio
July 6, 2017 4:40 pm

Diving Into the World of Judaism

The Line of Fire / Dr. Michael Brown

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July 6, 2017 4:40 pm

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Will you know what day it is. You know what time it is thoroughly Jewish Thursday stage for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Burrell your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience have president of the fire school of ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown.

I know it's thoroughly Jewish Thursday and we are going to have a lot of thoroughly content today but I just want to alert you to a new video that just went live a couple of hours ago. It is the safest video on YouTube. Yes it is that's actually the title of my newest video the safest video on YouTube. You can watch it. Just go to to my modify website. The line of You see it right there on the homepage runner Esther to run YouTube channel. The safest video on YouTube that the one video lesson a minute long, when no one will get offended.

No triggers, nothing that it's safe, it's a total safe space in the midst of a hostile Internet right there for you on YouTube.

Yes I'm saying that with a bit of a smile and a very serious article that is getting a lot of attention very quickly. Yes, gay activists are after your children. What am I talking about what I write it. Read the article and you will see all right welcome to the broadcast 866-34-TRUTH is number to call if you have a Jewish related question for me of any kind.

If you have a Hebrew related question, a question about faith in Yeshua as the Messiah? Israel today even Islamic related questions. We feel sometimes and thoroughly Jewish Thursdays fonts are open 866-34-TRUTH 7884. Halfway through this first hour. I plan to have a friendly debate with an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. He shot me a note earlier today and said hey how about coming on the air today and let's chat in a civil find suitable with grandma subject so I said okay let's let's focus on is a 53 so since this is a key text we all agree it's a key text just speaking last week with an older Jewish man and he's he, I believe, as he reads the text on his own.

It comes to the same conclusion or receives it the same as minute point really looks like it's talking about Jesus to show so do that and what I also want to do today is give you some insight into how Jewish tradition works how Jewish tradition works give you some examples of that. But first let me start with a little Hebrew truth for you.

One of the Hebrew words for worship.

The root literally means to to bow down before to prostrate oneself before and just like you see a Muslim man praying and and he'll he's on his knees. Then he gets on his face to to prostrate yourself before someone that is still done in certain parts of the world reference respect so could be before an earthly ruler in a king. You bow down before and that way or it could be before the Lord and ultimately it simply means to to worship and the first time. The verb is used is in Genesis the 22nd chapter in Genesis chapter 22 we have the account of God commanding Abraham to offer Isaac on Mount Moriah, and of course that was just a test that the beginning of the chapter tells us God tested him. But Abraham did know was a test Abraham thought this was the real deal and somehow he he knew him, and he says were going to go do what was he tells the tenants really go worship that will come back somehow. He has this assurance that we are going to come back yet he knows he's been told to sacrifice his son on the mountain. It's the first time the word worship is it's more than just singing and praising and shouting, jumping and clapping. It is the giving of one's whole life in obedience to God.

That is a fundamental aspect of worship her and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown mean my friends for truth. I remember years back.

Talking with Rabbi about certain Jewish beliefs and traditions and I said to him, yeah but but this tradition is like a thousand years after the New Testament are 1500 years after the New Testament where this holy book in Judaism is is thousand 1200 years after the New Testament. Why should I believe something that come so much later. I mean, you think that the earlier the source. The more authoritative right.

In other words, when you play the telephone game and and you you you sit in a circle. Maybe you got 15 family members and friends over and you come up with a silly little sentence you know you know that the prophet Elijah flew over the moon, and in a rocket fuel broomstick. You know some ridiculous statement like that and then it gets repeated all around the room by the targets to the end.

It's completely different. The further back you go the more authoritative Jewish tradition believes that every generation has been on a lower spiritual plane than the previous generation going back to Moses as it's expressed in the Tolbert if the earlier generation was like angels them are like mammoth yearly generation was like man like donkeys. The concept being that in order to have a right understanding. We need to sit on the shoulders of the elders luminaries the rabbis the great thinkers who went before us is trying to give new insight into Jewish thought, but because Judaism believes that there is a living tradition that is being passed down but also being developed in his generation, something can be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years later, but if he has become part of the practice of the Jewish community if it is become something accepted by the Jewish community, then it has great authority as well. In other words, if you ask a traditional Jew, why do you do that is not written in the Bible.

What you do that traditional Jew might reply will we have it by way of tradition and you might say will will care about tradition, we care about what's written as one rabbi said to me tradition for us is like another book of the Bible the right to place its own role here so again just try to give you an understanding II different. Yes, I differ the authority of these traditions.

Of course, but I want you to understand how Judaism works and thinks some of you raised Roman Catholic. I'm not Roman Catholic, was raised Roman Catholic. So I'm relating to this from the outside, but some of you raised Roman Catholic related to it from the inside and some of you were very serious Roman Catholics may be a friend of yours gets born again and begins to said he will why do you do that. Why do you have Sunday mass, the way you do and what he practices. This is what he fast on this day, or what what you pray this prayer it's there, what's church tradition from I said you but show me that in the Bible and Catholic would say what we have the Bible we have church tradition as they look at them as both and they would say that church tradition is also blessed by God or anointed by God. Not all of it that much. They would Citrix tradition is ultimately in harmony with Scripture, we can be a bit more extreme example may be you came out of being a Jehovah's Witness while Jehovah's Witnesses believe that that their organization is been raised up by God to give the true interpretation of the Bible. This is by revelation not by tradition being passed on through the generations, but by revelation, and you see about your book similar, written in the 1900 symbol we received the revelation that and and that's how we interpret the Bible accurately going back to the original meaning will Judaism is is not exactly like either of those. But Judaism does believe in the authority of the traditions so again just to be educational helpful for you on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Sometimes traditional Jew in a debate with me would say something like, look, the Messiah is important for us in Judaism, but we can have Judaism without the Messiah we can love God and and keep the commandments without the Messiah we can we can live a life of obedience to God, the Messiah is important to us, but we can have Judaism we can obey God without the Messiah. Every day we get up in the morning and seek to please God and keep his commandments.

Whereas you could not have your Christianity without Christ. You could not have your messianic Judaism of the Messiah and I reply will answer that is negative husband can have a marriage without a wife or a wife can have a marriage love husband right you need the two to have a marriage. However, you can have traditional Judaism of tradition, you can have rabbinic Judaism without the rabbis I'll gladly say we we need the Messiah. We cannot have our faith without the Messiah because he's the Redeemer set the pond by God. But you cannot have traditional Judaism without the traditions and for traditional Jew. If you symbol what he do this and this and this and this and this this so we have about tradition you symbol your traditions go contrary to the word they said no it's it's all in harmony just have to understand it rightly so, for example, here's a proof text that would be used.

It yes wrongly use of the questions wrongly used but this is a proof text. It's used by traditional Jews. Let's go to Deuteronomy chapter 17 and when we've had this conversation.

Some of you listen to conversations I've had with traditional Jews on the show and and build will be talking to each other and almost hundred to break things down and help you that are not traditional don't have the background understand what were talking about there plenty of things wrong on listening to two experts talk and I have no idea to talk Mike is it. It's outside of my field of learning more sensitive to that you listening up having conversation with traditional Jew in the use of certain words, phrases and concepts you might be say okay you lose meager little so I'll ask the question okay when you like the Sabbath candles Friday night though the wife, the mother will will like the Sabbath candles on Friday night right before sunset and and she'll say that you commanded us to light the candles. My question is where in Scripture to God's command that in the answer would be were commanded to listen to what the rabbis tell us that the rabbis tell us that were the light the candles, then that's as good as God telling us so here's the text that used Deuteronomy 1780.

If any case arises recording decision between one kind of homicide and another literally between blood and blood one kind of legal right and another one kind of assault and another any case within your towns. It is too difficult for you, then you shall arise, and go up to the place that the Lord your God will choose and you shall come to the Levitical priests and to the judge she was in office. In those days and you should consult them, and they shall declare to the decision, then you shall do according to what they declare to you from that place that the Lord will choose and you should be careful and according to all that they direct you. According to the instructions that they give you, and according to the decision which they pronounce to you shall do. You shall not turn aside from the verdict they declare you either to the right hand or to the left mental asked presumptuously by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the Lord your God, or the judge that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel and all the people shall hear and fear, and not act presumptuously again, and this is clearly talk about having kind of a Supreme Court with the senior judge, leader of the nation presiding with the Levitical priests as the other judges there and when you have a difficult case like trying to decide a homicide issue or something else. Then you go there and then whatever the verdict is you have to accept it just like the Supreme Court in America.

We may like some of their verdicts and dislike others but we have to abide by. It's the law of the land. That's what's being said that's not how it ends up getting interpreted traditional Judaism, traditional Judaism, ultimately says that these national leaders became to the sages, the rabbis and whatever they say. If this is the time you get up if these are the pressure pray that these are the closure can wear can't wear if these are the customs you keep don't keep it, and on and on and on down to minute detail. Then, if that's what they command you have to do it and and� Don't know debate to the left or the right, that even that's even taken to mean even if they tell you that left is right and right is left after obeying that's how far it goes and yes it is a gross misinterpretation of the tax will be right back on file line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown thank you for joining us on thoroughly.

Juicers 866487884 is the number to call. Just a few more minutes to give you an understanding here. Here is a well-known ancient Jewish comment on Deuteronomy 1711, shall act in accordance with the instructions given you a ruling handed down to you must not deviate from the verdict that they announce to either to the right or to the left. So basically if the ancient supreme court that would be functioning in Israel for issues that would be too difficult to set a local level then bring it there so here is the text it's called sea freight and escorted by Rashi, who is the foremost Jewish commentator but from 1042 1105. Here's how it is expensive freight which basically Rashi follows here even if he this is on the words don't depart to the right or to the left, whatever they tell you right even if he, the judge tells you about what appears to you to be right that it is left about what appears to be laugh that it is right you have to obey him. How much more is the self actually he tells you about what is evidently right that it is right in about what is left that is less not obviously this is a midrash decay. Homiletical explanation is not with the text says texting don't depart left it to the right. Okay to give your verdict is to give you a ruling you have to abide by that. That's the national court abide by that but the idea that whichever way they tell you to go is the way you have to go that whichever direction they say is right. You have to follow can see can be very dangerous Civil War people just mindlessly follow leaders. Many would many do in the church. Many do in the Muslim world.

Many do in the Jewish world may do the atheistic world you look up to somebody they have some type of authority some type of charisma.

Some type of backing and what they say you follow. You have an enough leaders like that together you can get masses to follow is not just injurious but here's what you need to understand there is a famous account in the Talmud. I've referred to it many times and it is very well known because of the conclusion to the story. There was a leading rabbi of that day. Sue talking second century Elizabeth or Thomas and there was a dispute about an oven called the off night oven off night having to do with snake one thing being of the arguments just snaked around their other explanations of the name in any case, there is a dispute whether the oven was clean or unclean because of some technical details surrounding so the different rabbis were discussing it and these things are obviously important.

If you believe things are clean or unclean or something is pleasing to God are not pleasing or something is acceptable or not acceptable. You want to be scrupulous. I respect that and understand that so they're having a debate and rabbi reconnaissance is Elizabeth O'Connor's is answering all of the arguments refuting their position of the other rabbis but they don't listen to so he now calls for divine backing if if the Holocaust, the legal ruling is a clock. According to me then let this carob tree be uprooted and according to story it happen. They said we don't we don't accept the testimony of a character well if if the Holocaust, the legal ruling is in accordance with me then let the waters that are flowing outside be stopped or going to the direct sun and that have L we don't accept woman then let the walls of this house of study collapse and they start to collapsible rubber rebukes them. So basically, in deference to both rabbis, Staley slant, then whether still not listing the most reckless confirmation Eliezer Elizabeth O'Connor Swanson divine backing in and the heavenly voice. The bought coal speaks know it's not God speaking directly from heaven is literally daughter of a voice in Hebrew. It is that is the heavenly voice it is. It is God's voice and a sense just your one level dial down and God then says why you argue with him, the Holocaust, the legal ruling is always in accordance with, at which point when the rabbis jumps up and says Lobo show him I am he who Deuteronomy 30 it's not in heaven.

There's the tour is no longer in heaven itself, and given that you not to go to heaven to get you have it. Just do it. That's with the Texas things. I think God can't speak.

I continue to speak to prophets through the centuries. He said he would and was people go astray when his people would misinterpret his word with his people would abuse his word would speak from heaven rebuke them through his prophets writer were logical on fire from heaven to rebuke the false prophets of course that's not what not in heaven means, but that's how it's interpreted and and then Exodus 23 verse two.

The second evidence verse witnessing don't follow the majority to pervert evil or two to to pervert justice sees me to pervert justice or to to put someone off the path so far the majority to do wrong to pervert justice that then gets quoted, but sliced in half in an impossible reading of the Hebrew and again it's it's midrash indicates its homiletical, but it becomes an authoritative statement follow the majority follow the majority and even though Rabbi Eliezer had the right arguments, even though he had divine backing with signs wonders and the voice of God because he had the minority view, he was overruled and Moses Maimonides, who lived 1135 to 1204 goes as far as saying that if you had a thousand prophets all the caliber of sale by juror Josh and and they all agreed this is what the laws.

This is the right interpretation and you had 1001 sages and they said no it's this then you follow the majority and not in other words, it is simple pragmatism. This is how the decisions are made. I understand the logic behind it I understand it, see if you have nine members of the Supreme Court and four of them are absolutely brilliant, and five are not nearly as brilliant. Four of them to see prophetic words directly from God, and they all say this is what God is saying in a democracy. The arguments of the other five vote for certain thing that's way it ends up but that that certainly after we gone operates. That's certainly not the waitress comes forth. So if you're listening in your traditional juju realize you shut out the possibility of God speaking to you, unless a majority of rabbis agree on it so scary. I would say when you will be right back. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for joining us today on one of our this is thoroughly Jewish Thursday a couple hours before the show today received the note rabbi Osher Mesa with my dialogue on the air a couple of times I said hey wisely come on today discuss the topic, I suppose. Let's see if we can find a place to do it. Obviously have certain things in common and other things not in common rabbi Mesa once believe many things I do and became an Orthodox rabbi has some views that are accepted within your sucks. Many others that are not.

This will tell you it looks let's focus on Isaiah 53 let's have a conversation back and forth about it so we could do that for little while on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday rabbi Mesa. Welcome back to want to fire rather sure thing right so what. Why don't you take up to two minutes just to give your viewpoint on who the prophet speaking of and Isaiah 53. Verify payment. We have a lot in common and really don't know how much we actually do have in common in this area. So what you will greatly affect that we agreed to speak on this segment of the profit that I consider not only essential but essential cribbage would understand properly and then this scenario every other person of Christ justify what they believe with it as well right and the segment I'm referring to is the song of the suffering servant to bring the reading I think I Gevity three is so essential to understand because as I'm sure Dr. Brown would agree. It deals with redemption and let me start by saying Isaiah 53 is not about the people of Israel. As you may have heard other counter missionary teachings is where I think Dr. Brown and I agree, but rather the song should be understood as the song of the martyrs that the individual or the individual is speaking about who's about to be martyred in Israel. Speaking in Isaiah 53, but not about Israel and this if you think about it the only way at least I think that's what got correlate with what appeared in court and Torah. There is a formula for exile and redemption and actually this is why we have the book. The prophet to begin with right to see that formula and action and of the import of the formula is disobedient equals prophetic intervention and if the words of that after those profits are not heated, which is almost never cheated because that both prophets are usually tortured and murdered. This would then equal exile, which if you think about it and become a Christian perspective would not exclude you sure however it would completely. I can completely remove all the extra of exclusivity built around Yeshua. I will start to stop there and look at this one thing that you and I both say that it cannot refer to the nation as a whole, correct, correct is a 53 cannot refer the nation as a whole and my understanding of of why cannot is because the subject of Isaiah 53 is not suffering for his own sins for the sins of his people. He is righteous.

They are guilty, whereas when the Jewish people have been in exile as a nation we been in exile because of our sins and the prophetic witness is overwhelming to that effect throughout Scripture, and even right in Isaiah 40 through 53. There are many references to our sins as a nation so we we agree on that point, he cannot refer to Isaiah 53 is a whole your position then which you can articulate. On the other side of the break is that it is speaking of the righteous martyrs within his realtor righteous remnant. I'm quite sure I can demonstrate that doesn't work either. But we come back let's let's find out why rabbi Osher Mesa believes that as if it. Speaking of the righteous render specifically martyrs, righteous martyrs within Israel will seek to show white speaking of the one righteous order for plan and by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Looking back to life are conversation, many dialogue.

Many debate with rabbi Osher Mesa about Isaiah 53 so the passage begins 5213, 253 12 but there other passages relating to the servant of the Lord. Isaiah 40 through 53 little time at the same individual, or the same group or this very are there different subjects so rabbi Mesa. Your position is that it. Speaking of the righteous remnant within Israel specifically the martyrs within Israel.

Is that correct profits to draw any messenger of the Almighty sent to wicked Israel at that time I asked her what go-ahead in your grade on start your agreed on verse chapter 5 you translated it as he suffered for our spend and I think that's where RV maintenance agreement actually begin right driving there is a good home. Epilogue Lipsey a new medical.mail again or in other words, it may, before word means either for or because of right. In modern the question is why would someone who is knowledgeable income think that this is actually saying that somebody is going to be martyred in an in expurgated way for their sin right felt the way the JPS in many Jewish translations translated at because of our project because of our transgression.

You're not or are things but both words actually applied but it's how you understand it if someone suffered because of wicked Israel because of their congressional that happened in everyday life. We know that the good supper for the wicked all the time, but we did years ago an ultra sex rabbi was talking to said to me as I punch him in the SASE suffering for my sins and the macro MLB suffering and that the problem is no right if you say because of her for either. Either way same same end result. What what the text makes clear, overall, explicitly clear is number one that by his wounds were healed. So if I punch someone in the face.

They're not healed by my wounds there there. I'm not healed rather by wounding them there hurt and gossiping to judge me for the previous verse there tells us, it innovates is not just how would you parse the member there, right in in in Isaiah 53, five because the verse before it the end of that verse. The verse after testing second means verse four says it is.

He's borne our sorrows, and carried our pains right and and then we thought he was suffering for his own sins.

He was smitten by God, instead he was suffering for our sins by his wounds were healed and then how does Isaiah 53, six, and of father Nahid Gilboa to Avant Coulomb of the Lord is close to light upon him the iniquity of us all soul it's explicit in terms of what those those prepositions actually mean completely hyperbolic chapter have a lot of them | align with the messaging tour with widespread formula that appears in Torah for exile intervention right and ultimately want. We were bent that ultimate redemption half the time with other words.

Isaiah was not the first prophet, Yeshua.

If you believe what the property would have to agree but also not the first developed profit. This has happened throughout history countless times over and over again. A messenger of the Lord is sent to wicked Israel.

Israel is made. His remake of the government affected New Testament aligned to the idea and ask chapter 7 verse two. Which of the prophet figure fathers fail to persecute even killed those who foretold the coming of the right one and now you are his betrayers and murderers tying the idea that those were sent to wicked Israel or make this offer. Why should someone believe that a good 53 is in some exclusive banner only talking about one person write the seltzer tics explained that the the were not reading this in a vacuum, reading it as we see, for example, Isaiah 49 the same servant seems to have failed in his mission to Israel and God tells him not only will you regather tribes of Israel.

But you're gonna bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.

You might say who's it referring to Isaiah the 50th chapter speaking in very individual terms about the servant being having hair ripped out of his beard and suffering a certain way and then the end of 5213. What is a Telus there that he's going to be highly exalted right which which profit then you tell me that all the prophets you can be so highly exalted in godlike terms that will be high and lifted off the same terminology used about God, Isaiah 6 it you know the midrash, which is about Isaiah 5213 that the servant of the Lord speaking of the Messiah will be more highly exalted and then Abraham, Moses, and the ministering angels. That certainly does and applied it to any other prophet that's ever lived in this remake of IEEE profit.

So every guy in the servant of the Lord as something great. Awaiting them clarify the grade is in Abraham, Moses, and the ministering angels, but not that I did help with murder a bit tight but let's just focus on this for second so so we can be fitted to what you're saying show it if if Abraham and Moses are both profits okay if they both suffer in certain ways for their for their faith and a big year but you tell me every profit that suffered his can be raised up higher than Abraham, Moses, and the ministering angels religious tradition that says that Abraham is to be that type of profit or property of another work, every profit by the prophet that were sent to Israel for them to repent Abraham before Israel was even a nation.

My point is that it bit. If there is no exclusivity. Then there is no definite Messiah in the context i.e. Christian claim.

This is only talking about right in with a claim that it the only way that I should hear the show me where in Jewish tradition.

It says that prophets like Jeremiah or Isaiah or others who suffered will be more highly exalted than Abraham, Moses, and the ministering angels towards the court order, become "afterlife, write your book only being relying on the document, constantly contradicting felt written by people who did not accept the short files you really can't use it when you don't yourself consider them in authority, I'm sticking to it. It's it's a it's a well accepted midrash. It's it's midrash time, okay, it carries tremendous weight.

It's widely accepted and entranceway in there been a community but the bottom line is okay up the bottom line is you keep referring to Torah right I'm I'm letting you refer you to Torah rabbinic tradition to back your point. It is a totally exclusive text because no one no profit if they just are a regular human being is going to be that highly exalted. Just with the Texas video room in the Slavic of both the only one spoken of in terms like that in in in Isaiah is is God himself known from the Nissan high and lifted up and I say the six chapter 2 tells us that this one is going to be that highly exalted announcing within your own traditions it says will be even more highly exalted than Abraham, Moses, and the ministering angels in your tummy will any property service will be unessential and show me that either in in the Tanakh rabbinic tradition I'm saying it doesn't exist. Area your courting one legend we know that people were martyred for the Almighty special Sharon walk, this idea I start off my talk saying that this is not excluded. Sure, if you believe you, the prophet Rita messenger however it's for sure not exclusive usual because he's talking to people at the time the tour Deuteronomy chapter 18 says that when Israel began to emulate the nation of the world. The Almighty is going to raise up for them a prophet is nightly and what is this a prophet here that but it doesn't even say profit anywhere in this text right just as nice try Sgt. right the first of it you citizen refers to specifically to profits. It doesn't mention his subjects a larger 70 Isaiah the prophet, I didn't profit it meant every messenger sent to Israel whether your profit. A messenger is not speaking about the ascot since we met the afterlife.

Behold my servant. Likewise, these should be high and lifted up, shall be exalted versus suffers terribly right. Verse 14 verse 15 socially sprinkle any options kings shall shut their mouths because of him that which is not been told them they see in that which they have not heard they understand this is this is the end of this age that the insight comes. It's not something the afterlife, but I want I want to go back to this point and then we got a break coming up so so you get to to go. First we come back I believe. Clearly, Isaiah 52, 13 to 15 lays out exclusivity that cannot refer to Moses, or, say, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and when you just discard the trust on whom I'd I'd say that that's not in keeping with an Orthodox rabbi. If you want to qualify that you're not really Orthodox.

It's fine, but if you're challenge that the very fact the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 86. It here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for about Isaiah 53 attempt to what we are trying to get in detail and focus on things if we have to go few minutes longer you able to do that sir okay so I got in the last word want you respond and then we can we can move on to elsewhere in the text on. I'm saying that we have no evidence in Scripture that any of the prophets who suffered be a Jeremiah be it. Isaiah B and others who suffered some or even killed will grant you should himself references juice and killing the prophets, there's no argument on that midrash even talks about the elders of Israel being killed by the people at Mount Sinai so there there's a long history of that blessing.

Nowhere does it say that they will be so highly exalted the way described in an essay 52, 13 to 15 FedEx refers exclusively to Yeshua and even by some rabbinic interpretation refers exclusively to the Messiah. So if you have one more come back, go ahead them a move onto another part of the text are your courting one art. Many of the other midrash units speak about usual boiling cauldron of excrement or conduct.

Each of the Messiah is no longer coming because that expired in the time of yellow right word.

We know from sheer greed of the prophets were made to suffer target and only limited to profit the messengers in general failure.

Your thing now that I'm only limiting the prophet it's it's it's it's a mystery that Harold prophets her message on ring right the song be martyred were called it, but you're about to what you're basing your proof on the on the exclusivity are there for three on a midrash by the fact every writer. Virtually every student involvement or shame rejected Yeshua think that after much weight to the exclusivity of Yeshua being spoken right in just are nervous. You just respond cyclically.

This first thing is when you refer to various statements with the Talmud about Yeshua or or about, say for example the box in a mess into a specific spider in the days of Hezekiah. There's an immediate rebuke to that you know that statement you know God for bid and it's it's in the midst of Talmud discussion on back and forth. It's different than a statement sent in in the trust on, which is a a widely accepted statement elsewhere in rabbinic interpretation to the point that it even colors some interpretation and some would see about that.

Beginning section does refer to the Messiah within the rest of it refers to to Israel, but all I'm saying is this, I'm giving you two options okay I'm giving you the option of proving it scripturally and you cannot show many were in Scripture were a a prophet or martyr will be that highly exalted the easy using human godlike language the way it's described their or since. The midrash interprets it a certain way and you're an Orthodox rabbi give me then rabbinic interpretation that supports your view that something go either way. If you want to your bank interpretation. First, and help you understand how meditation work to monitor your that a midrash and, in some way outweigh arachidonic toggled itself, but in terms of acne for Scripture you know that person curb the vinegar to get from not getting its inscription on you're not getting its altar addition where you getting on another one claiming exclusivity you would. I am including all property messenger you're claiming exclusivity letter.

Let's try to summarize, because you know forget to get the midrash, okay.

Justify your position either course I had. I'm quoting Scripture to you what we gotta do our best to not talk past each other.

Okay is what were both thinking individuals. We have the ability to digest an argument and and and respond to it right. So here's the issue I am saying that the exultation spoken of. At the end of Isaiah 52 verses 13 to 15 is unique and it can not apply to any other prophets who suffered.

This is a high exultation that can only refer to Yeshua the Messiah. I'm basing that on Scripture that someone number two. I'm also say for rabbinic Jew. Isn't it interesting that there is a tradition that speaks of the Messiah being this highly exalted him with something exclusive so don't want to deal with the midrash, that's fine. Don't want to with the tradition infrastructure is one of your mind on this front. Show me anywhere in the Bible that were any other individual is going to be this highly exalted and you said you can't that is nothing in the Bible. So where's your position coming from the psychomotor and bodily sacrament tradition worth 100 are you hearing what. Starting 5213 NASA D at Yahoo! with the salvage of manual effort. The person dispute. Edward, if it's not going to one specific person, by definition, it would have to include all messenger you're saying that you have proof you have biblical proof. It talking about the Messiah, I say I'm saying I could give you the previously status the chapter I'm saying show me were any other individual other than the Messiah will be this highly exalted dilution Messiah and attend the Messiah's gonna sit at God's right hand. He'll be that highly exalted okay but you shown the fire even appear in Scripture. I listen I like my best to give you a shot that I feel like you playing silly games and the push out level. You can't even verses from the chapter in dispute to say that it proves your point. When the earth were trying to decipher it. It doesn't always say fluently. Where does it speak where anywhere insert we let's say this, we don't know who this is about.

Okay, let's just say you when I discover this text.

One day in our Bible. Somehow we didn't have it before we were missing pages in our Bible we discover in our Hebrew Bible and we begin reading it and we say wow who who is that servant, that is, is going to be so highly exalted, and when I look at the text. When I executed just on the plane level.

I see while this is so highly exalted. This is not what normally I don't see this happening to anybody else except in of the son of David that this promised Redeemer that's going to rule the earth, and so on.

Hi lift, that's the same language that used in Isaiah chapter 6 about God himself now. I believe that there is a reason that many people only think it talking about you sure because most people do not read the Scripture during the felt like I eat it all. You know the gospel" about but if you know Tora if you don't you know the you know the messengers of God. Whether it's Moses who wasn't allowed to enter the promised land.

Whether it's Jeremiah butter indicate that there will himself was murdered would only come to the conclusion that about messenger. In general, unless you have a birth.

2012 Pacifica visual which you don't recording a bit dodgy credit of the five I midrash I said forget the majority agree that we had like in the text is in the singular, the tax is in the singular song I can interpret it clear� Compelling reason and I keep making the same point over again which will leave here and go on to something else. The exultation speaks of applies to know what a human being in Scripture except the Messiah will you know what day it is. You know what time it is thoroughly Jewish Thursday time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks for joining us friends on the line of fire broadcasted is thoroughly Jewish Thursday, this is Michael Brown whenever possible.

I have conversations with those who differ with me on different subjects. I love on thoroughly Jewish Thursdays when registries will call in and and ask honest questions and challenge what I believe many been very gracious in doing so in the midst of our disagreements, and a few years back I was contacted by a Jewish rabbi, a man who is not raised believing these things, but became Orthodox Jewish rabbi, but he believes in and converting Gentiles into Judaism. There is controversy within the Jewish community over that weave dialogue here and there, and he suggested maybe we chat again on the phone on the May we did a couple months back such a great let's talk about Isaiah 53rd chapter. So we been in the midst of a discussion but will take just a few more minutes but I want to start afresh because we got new folks just tuning in, I want to start afresh for you so rabbi Asher Mason.

Let's let's focus in on this.

I say that Isaiah 53 is speaking of vicarious suffering that the suffering of the servant was on behalf of in place of the guilty party and that the servants wounds brought healing to the guilty party which is why Kant referred to Israel as a whole, or even to the martyrs within Israel because there suffering did not bring healing to those that smote the rather God judge them for that. So what's what's your take on what seems to be vicarious suffering spoken of their begin about it. It even found out about vicarious talking suffering, but more of a reactionary suffering. This commitment or the messengers are suffering because of Israel, which is what expected to happen when you take them was right you can you send them a wicked individual for them to repent and I think that the Jews were expecting their the notion of prophetic and prevention is clear and tour that the Almighty will send the prophet when Israel begins to stray. Now, nothing speaking about one specific individual.

You're saying that and I think it we don't know who it specifically speaking about it right for us to assume without tour. Becky did begin about any messenger sent to wicked Israel exit so just just to understand this. Then we got a short segment.

Your support will carry on just a couple minutes into the segment as follows. Just to be too good to be clear that we know, for example, the pastors like second Chronicles 36 were God sends prophets to his people prophets just people we reject them. We reject them. We reject them. We persecute them because of that God's wrath comes on so we cause the prophets to suffer and God judges us because of it. So rather than us being healed by the prophets, wounds we we ourselves receive judgment. How can you then explain where it says if I cover a tone near Pallotta and at the cost of his wounds. There's healing for us rather based in your interpretation, the prophet comes to Israel rebukes Israel sitting Israel. Israel kills the prophet, but Israel still judged by God for that. Israel is receive healing. So, I still understand how you have your view, there language and hyperbolic all all the prophet To be understood from that understanding the poetic. Ultimately Israel did repeat healing but it's a shame that the messenger have to suffer and happen many times a form letter like so hard for you. Jeremiah suffered greatly for his room. Moses suffered family suffered. If you're messenger of God to stay in the application does not articulate your resume their race start. We come back in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks for joining us on thoroughly Jewish Thursday want to go back to rabbi Asher Mason before I get to some other calls and you were sitting right before the break that the prophets would suffer when they bring messages to Israel and ultimately they would somehow be be healed by hurting the prophets up so anything he wants it to add to that you got cut off by the break back to you hurt. I like thank you for the shower area appreciate how gracious and how kind and polite you are and I wish to have more individuals with certain talkshows that are open to hearing different opinions, even though we had a great week at the love each other at the I want to make that clear that I appreciate you. However, during, there's an idea that I don't overlook here right now I'm at another with the notion that the death of the Geico rights of individuals act like cup are this appears development directly however that was always understood figuratively. I.e. everyone always understood that without tissue there is no forgiveness there is no atonement, which is why you still make altar call today showed his notion of someone taking the nation, but sin upon themselves or the people sin, it really ultimately just means that that person is suffering prophet. We will ultimately be our salvation.

Because of their suffering, but it really because of the repentance that we make the decision we make to even see that distinction to see the result of our actions and I think that the way to explaining it, you're getting stuck on first date thinking.

Guess ultimately Isaiah suffered because of poor. If the same word in Hebrew, but no one really, with the Torah basis.

Whatever applied redemptive quality to the individual, or individual did speaking about here a minute, why would they when the court felt told us to expect prophet and even the New Testament reiterates the idea that you prophets were mistreated and murdered. I associate yet it is in response note number one since you call turmeric does mention Deuteronomy 18 God raising up a prophet doesn't mention the prophets suffering their just first thing first references the snow mention of the prophet suffering that the second thing wall-to-wall the prophets with intercede for their people with a high priest would would bear of the sins of his people on his shoulders on his breastplate when he went to the that the holiest place of all the language that you steer goes beyond that.

I say take the text for what it says you say no it's hyperbole I say don't it means what it says. By his wounds were healed. Of course everything is always with repentance. The blood sacrifices always with repentance as well. And the whole chapter is is very detailed and specific. He grew up before him like a young plant like a root out of dry ground had no former Majesty that we should look at them you have to say that every prophet who ever lived and suffered, that description was fit or heat he made his grave with the wicked with with the rich in his death that that each specific detail that's painted out here is asked to refer to everything a prophet which I was. It doesn't mark my point would be God could not of made himself more clear that he speaking about an individual that he speak about this individual will be highly exalted and even godlike wages based on that the Hebrew language used in in comparable has a also regular as I have children where to set it to your offspring is at odds here is that it doesn't say his you had in his ear as Sarah Hill CCed, which could something in the future generation.

At end of the end of Psalm 22 as Sarah discovered about Charlie generations.I am that the phrase your Azera occurs nowhere else in the Bible doesn't say means have your own offspring that is assisted and it doesn't say Your spiritual Jeremy could really use a similar view but I'm not even saying that is particular to one individual military. Jeremiah had the children so you're saying you couldn't apply the term either not your thing very clear and specific something that it become a prophet and messenger.

In general the weather they had children not. But then, why does it yet, so that the fact is, it's all in the singular. I'm saying I'm taking it literally and not in a hyperbolic way. I'm saying through his wounds we really are.

Heal the Lord laid on him the iniquity of all of us and I also see that that he will make many righteous is as well and they give specifics about his death and that he's going to live beyond death so so to me it's it's his black-and-white clear that it's an individual and an oncologist say this and then you get get a real quick last word in an and will move on to others. I I appreciate your desire to have dialogue and I knew you seek to do that in your own settings to bring on those who differ with you and thanks for your gracious towards me and in the midst of our differences, but what what I say is this, you are going in the right direction. You're just stopping short, yes it is a picture of the righteous martyr, but there's only one who was perfectly righteous, who fulfills this, and yes that's part of what got even embedded in rabbinic tradition as he does in certain places that the death of the righteous at times is only one truly righteous. So when we receive God's gracious gift that's that's our repentance. God have mercy on me a sinner. We receive what is done. Salvation is common. Countless hundreds of millions of lived out the reality of this so last word over to you speak about Israel being wicked or a prophet being wicked Israel lesson I just speak of a prophet suffering there.

No prophet or messenger the offer if there sent to wicked individuals that just clear in chapter 18 verse nine. It starts out like that at the Gwen went to the landlord. Can you do not imitate their detestable way. Because if you do I will raise up for you a prophet Isaiah, Jeremiah, if you believe sure the prophet does not exclude you sure now that what you think an agent of regular crop. I think it's understood by every reader of the Torah. That prophet is going to be made to suffer, whether to prophet a messenger ultimately your martyr through the prophets in that section and I forget not clear if it's 125-1000, even according to the problem with our property today.

However, what I think it clear that it's not exclusive to one individual. This is just a fact of biblical life in effect reiterated in poor all the time that the wicked typically fight against what's good and I wouldn't give you the benefit of that out that if you believe in Yeshua that would exclude that would not exclude you to being a messenger or prophet made to suffer at the hand of wicked Israel, but there is no specific verse saying that it's only part about one man.

There are many verses there in the prophets that you would accept as symbolic as hyperbolic as poetry, but for some reason. Isaiah 53 you want to take literally rising a good explanation for good example of this is how you choose to understand that as some sort of spiritual offspring, which I'm pretty sure does not exclude some sort of spiritual offering, but it's not definite to the governor that there were degrees I thought about one what I'd encourage everyone to do is I like Robin is good and that the the last word here is encourage everyone to do that. Go back and study the text.

I read from Isaiah 40 all the way to 53. But then, specifically, 52, 13 to 5312 and ask yourself who is not speaking of whatever your background is, who is at speaking of ask God to give you revelation and insight, and ask yourself is the speaking about one individual was the speaking about many people or nation as a whole, or group of individuals. If God wanted to speak about an individual could he do it more clearly.

Should we take this as literal or hyperbolic go back and asked those questions and come to conclusions. Hate always nice chatting.

Maybe will meet face-to-face. One of these days are quick thank you all right.

Sure thing like friends. I'm not going to add anything to that discussion and fairness to Rabbi Meza and I imagine hope he'll grab this clip we spoke oh maybe without interruption. Maybe 3540 minutes about this do our best within the confines of radio with breaks and things like that so I'll probably put up on his YouTube site is free to do that will probably put up on on ours.

She can listen back to anything that you missed but this is this subject is a 53.

Of course, came up prominently in a debate. I'm in the midst of a video debate with academician or Rabbi use Rob Blumenthal the format we both agreed on because we could grant other formats was we each present 20 minutes on the real Jewish Messiah the same day we post on YouTube at the same time then a month later because both post rebuttals 20 minutes and one month later is coming up in less than two weeks we post responses to our rebuttal so if you ever watched any of that karma website asked Dr. Brown a SK DR the second Blumenthal and then you can watch the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire. It's thoroughly Jewish Thursday I want to go to the phones for your Jewish related question some of been posted on Facebook and Twitter's will and try to respond to some of them. One thing it's very important to Rabbi Blumenthal and to me is that you watch both of our presentations all right.

That's the goal. So you watch my presentation and you'll see in the YouTube description. There is a link to his presentation. So watch both of opening presentations watches first. My first whichever you like. Then the 20 minutes each. Okay and and we both with the first one posted links with our notes as well.

I basically read mine verbatim his is very close to verbatim and then one month later we ready posted these that rebuttals to each other all right and there's lots of discussion on my YouTube channel. Lots of back and forth religious Jews weighing in messianic Jews weighing in others weighing in. So watch both of our rebuttals to one another and then gobbling less than two weeks will be posting our final responses to each other's rebuttals. Yeah, I much prefer back-and-forth I question him in question me challenge each other back and forth, back and forth that's not his style is out of home with that he prefers to get the argument look at it digested and then put together a response he proposed written debate and I love to do that but time doesn't permit it to go back and forth of my concern was we could go years of exchanges and not make the headway we could in the face-to-face so he proposed this apropos something else.

It did work for him.

He proposed this is okay great let's do this. So yes, I know many of you wants to go back and forth in a live setting or so would like us go back and forth in a written setting, but for both of us it doesn't work, one for one reason, the other for another reason. So the midst of our very serious differences. We agreed to do this and and I hope you find it educational and helpful. This is for serious in-depth discussion about the real Messiah.

Okay, 86634 to is the number call will start in the state of Washington with Neil walking to the line of fire by Dr. Brown. Thanks for taking my call. You're very welcome to pour out to say thank you and and encourage you that your example to commitment to academic fairness and to just really showing the love of Christ throughout all your conversations even if they did get heated is an example that we should all be following and I just pray scot-free will thank you sir I appreciate that so might my question for you today as I struggle understanding the development of the Jewish understanding of the afterlife as we read to the Old Testament of the New Testament and then on to you know post Jesus Jewish writings. It seems like the development of their understanding of the afterlife is changing. That changed and I was wondering if you could just kinda give me a 30,000 foot view of of what that has been like yeah and thank you, thank you for the very kind words Neil okay number number one, there were different beliefs about the afterlife in different Jewish circles in Jesus day and we know that of course because he did. He deals with the Pharisees about it. He deals with the Sadducees about it and with the Sadducees, they didn't believe in a resurrection the world to come. And that's why he says God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right so that they all live to him so Pharisees did believe in the world to come in and Pharisees even had beliefs that were similar to heaven and hell in certain regards, there's a passage in the Talmud that states that the perfectly righteous go straight up the totally wicked go straight down, but those that are basically you're in between which is the vast majority of human beings.

They go down for a while and they come up that becomes somewhat the basis for the view of of a period of suffering that is limited and that's what Jews hold to today. Not a reformed you're very liberal Jew might not even believe in a world to come in all that and in other words, they are more influenced by just secular thinking and because Judaism has an emphasis on this world. Even though Jews have often suffered greatly through the centuries there looking for the messianic era, the looking for redemption and that way but it's it's played out primarily in this world there is less thought about what would be referred to as the sheet the yeshiva, on how you know that the heavenly places of Torah study reduce can study Torah forever and ever and ever. The greater emphasis is on serving God day-to-day in this world is what you get from tour itself right five books of Moses and praying for the messianic era, the time of redemption because Jews have often suffered greatly through the centuries. This means that we've longed for that messianic era to come would be delivered from our sufferings. Now all that being said traditional Jew today. We believe that in the case of the fast fast fast majority of human beings on the planet and that's a Jewish person. Upon death, they would have certain sins they still had to pay for. For example, a guy commits a certain crime and he does the time for that crime so there sins that we commit.

We ask God to forgive us we weep. We we repent we make restitution we have today of atonement. Maybe this human suffering added in that our death all these things can be payment in a certain way for us in traditional Jewish thinking, but we still die there needs to be some level of of purging, some level of of panel of of paying it. It's not Neil it's not discussed a lot. The details are not discussed a lot and if you go to traditional Jewish funeral safer famous Rabbi they are wailing and weeping, not because they have no hope at all the world to come. But because they are focused on obeying God in this world and are are mourning the loss of this man who was such a luminary in their generation played such an important role in their generation.

However, there is the belief that you do suffer in kind of a purgatory type setting for up to 11 months of the tradition is that it's 12 months but really almost no one is that wicked that it's actually 12 months. The exact nature of the suffering that's debated as well, but it's not a major focus. The goal is that you have someone praying with call the mourner Scottish every day that they go to synagogue and they pray this is not a prayer that focuses on the dead. It's a prayer.

The focus is on God's greatness and on redemption.

If you want to read it. Neil read the text of the prayer. It's called the mourner Scottish K a D DISH K a D DISH.

It's a cute beautiful prayer exalting God and with a longing for redemption.

So the goal the sum of praise that for you on it or in your memory every day and then it will, it will easier sufferings or speed your sufferings in the world to come, and then basically you are with God and studying Torah and that's basically to get to do forever, and of course there's the messianic era on this world in this world before final and by the way, in my book 60 questions Christians ask about Jewish beliefs and practices I touch on some of this as well paint at a time here, but thank you sir. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 66343 here again is Dr. Michael Brown friends.

It is really fire. I do have time to take some of your calls today. I have some online questions Jewish related questions that have been posted on Twitter and on Facebook. I want to answer some of those here's a recall 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884. I've got a very important new article up entitled yes gay activists are after your children say what exactly do you mean, and what weight read the article were talk about indoctrination.

It is eye-opening and getting a lot of attention.

You can read that in the digital else of a new fun video called the safest video on YouTube. Yeah a video with no triggering it is a safe space video so I had some fun with it. It submitted log. It's got a lot of positive responses so far, so check that out. Of. That's also on the digital library. The line of 8663 freight 7H a four okay some questions here that have been posted on Twitter. Let's start with this one from Andrew in reference to pearls Pearly gate or pearls before swine, or pearls considered unclean for Jewish people all all know pearls or things of value. Pearls are things of beauty.

So that's why you don't cast your pearls before swine's pigs like you recognize the beauty of that executor recognizes that the value of that pigs in a trample it or try to eat it because there's no clue that it's valuable and beautiful. So no, it's quite the contrary Road would be something of of importance in when the Bible speaks of of city being ordained.

Like it or adorned excuse my Isaiah 54 with all the beautiful stones is because the stones are highly valuable and and beautiful, yet so no not not unclean. Quite the contrary.

But we understand the concept that Jesus who she was talking about and in Matthew the seventh chapter. For example, if if I was talking to a bunch of people who mocked God and mocked our relationship with God and mocked the things of the spirit. II would not share with them. One of the most intimate things that that God did in my life are shared with me only have it ridiculed in and scorned okay so absolutely pearls before swine is is.

It is important principle for us to to to go by.

No question whatsoever. Let's see okay Joey, Palestinian Christian asked if the state of Israel is a sign of God's faithfulness. What kind of sign is it to the Palestinian people exactly that it's a sign of God's faithfulness that he keeps his promises. Despite our sins are shortcomings that he keeps his promises that he works out his plan in the earth. Even where we fail and mess up and if we will put our trust in him and turn to him in repentance. He will bring his plan to completion so Palestinians should recognize the mercy of God on the lost sheep of the house of Israel recognize God bringing the Jewish people back to the land and also recognizing that those that bless Israel will be blessed and therefore if they become friends of the Jewish people friends of God's covenant partners. Despite his real sense if they become friends of the Jewish people rather than enemies of the Jewish people will be blessed as well. Yeah it's positive for everybody right the lessee will be right back.

Her plan and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for being part of our 7884 before I answer some more online questions. Let's go to Joseph in Atlanta. Welcome to the line of fire. Yes, hello Dr. Brown thank you for taking my call that I wanted to ask you about the unorthodox teacher that I've just discovered on YouTube and I wanted to know if you'd heard of him or his teaching. His name is Ariel Cohen DeLauro and I believe he believes in Yeshua and he is written some materials on the second trial of Jesus where he believes that Jesus would be found innocent, and he says that he is able to prove all of these things, along with the Trinity through the use of good Manchuria and I guess my question is about him and about good Manchuria okay yes� Let me assistance on three levels of first I am certainly familiar with with this with this rabbi with his teacher, and in fact of two years ago, Israel. I was walking on the streets in Jerusalem with a friend and I saw him and I thought this the guy and we just started chatting for minute and is chatting in Heber for minute and he gave me his card and I just I was have stacks of cards or just put away as I found it the other day so I actually went back on YouTube just it to look a little bit more about this position, but yes, I'm certainly familiar. Okay, so he is an Orthodox Jew is trying to get the religious Jewish world to reconsider who Yeshua is and Saiz says that the first trial was not a proper trial that he should be retried today so as to be exonerated such that that's the first thing so he is living as a religious Jew.

If you see him. He looks like a religious Jew is a practicing religious Jew as far as I know, so he's not saying convert to Christianity. He saying recognize Yeshua as one of her own as the Messiah sets. That's the first thing and and I believe for many years that God is going to raise up all kinds of people like this from different angles to try to get us to rediscover who Yeshua is. As used, especially traditional Jews. Now God knows whether the Spencer true believer not what exactly he believes Ivan spoke with him in enough depth.

Some of my colleagues have and feel very good about his beliefs on him to sing for those listening and looking to me for you my seal of approval so that I just don't know that much about about the man his police. There certainly available. People can watch and see number two he would he would try to get Jewish people to recognize Yeshua as she has been your safe, the Messiah, son of Joseph that that there are religious Jews for many centuries have believed into messianic figures at the end of the age, the Messiah, son of Joseph, who will fight and die in the last great battle before being raised up from the dead by the Messiah, son of David and in and some accounts here and and there that that there are there are instances of even looking to his suffering. It is being vicarious but basically he's the suffering Messiah in Judaism and Rabbi Dolores is trying to get Jewish people to recognize that aspect. There's a whole book by David C. Mitchell on the side have been your safe Messiah son of Joseph, David C. Mitchell, it's a scholarly work is very comprehensive. Some of its controversial I don't accept every one of his premises, but it it tries to demonstrate how pervasive this idea Messiah center.

Joseph is so that's the second thing the third thing is the use of gum Austria to Montr�al. It assigns numerical value to every letter so originally the Hebrew letters were just letters a certain point in time they came to be used as numbers as well so that the Hebrew when you're just writing out the number one in Hebrew like nobody great 1234 when you're writing that out. Jude right in Hebrew, it's that the be like a beast a is one BSC sets abuse to see his three circum-archery uses the numerical values for the Hebrew letters which are universally recognized for many centuries now and then comes up with spiritual meanings based on so it's okay your name, your safe in in Hebrew. The unit is 10. The vav is six.

The enemy would go through that and it would it would say let's just say hypothetically okay that the numerical value of your name is 123 while wow that's also the numerical value of Atlantis that shows your Joseph from elected. It's basically playing games with the words, I don't believe there's any authority to it whatsoever. I don't believe that God intended to speak through the letters as numbers anymore than if you turned every English word into into numbers and and come up with meanings and it's normally used midrash weekly homiletic league in Jewish sources like you know we know Menachem is a name of the Messiah because Menachem equals Messiah, marcher or whatever the analogies would be, or if this is a false prophet because this name equal check care falsehood in Heber you can come up with anything in him. I'm looking at a bottle of water here on on on my desk next to my cell phone while could be that that bottle equals cell phone numerically and here you come up with anything so I don't accept it, is having any authority whatsoever. However, if it's one way for rabbinic Jew to communicate with rabbinic Jew and God uses that to get them to go to the truth of the word and with the plain sense of Scripture is that let God be God. That's a method of interpretation that has value to them and he's able to use that to get them to cease. I thought I just don't see as a legitimate method of interpretation having any authority behind understood. Thank you. You are.

You're very welcome and thank you for the call and the question.

So overall, I see this is a very good thing.

I see God is at work in all of this how we get to the destination may be a little bit different.

866-34-TRUTH okay here's a question from Nikki will in India. How did synagogues come into existence.

What's the difference between temple and synagogue yester the temple was the one and only temple verse the tabernacle under Moses and David and then the temple of Solomon and in the second Temple that came about in the time of Haggai surveillance in these others, so there was one temple, one temple only that was ultimately located in Jerusalem. This was the place to which the people visually go all males three times a year were to go to Jerusalem. This was the place of sacrifice.

This was the place where atonement was made for Israel. Now the Israelites often disobeyed. They had high places and shrines and conifer temples and things like that but in God's sight. There was one temple and one temple only now what happened once as the Jewish people were scattered in different parts of the world as they did not have access to the temple to could make the pilgrimage three times a year they they needed a place where they could pray. Were they could learn that that this seems to be primarily a pharisaical development.

The Pharisees began to introduce the idea of of all Israel, living in a in a priestly way and the people of Israel being able to come together in their communities and study and pray so by Yeshua's day. This was a a a common practice in the Jewish world that you have a synagogue there was the temple, and that was the place where Jews would come from around the world and and the Passover.

For example, that the, the, according to Josephus the historian of the day. The restraint of the day that the population of Jerusalem it's like 3 to 4 times its normal size because pilgrims would be coming in from all over but in village after village, town after town. There were synagogues and that was their purpose to come together in a place where people could pray together so recite the ritual prayers, and in the Scriptures could be read in the Scriptures could be taught and that begins a couple hundred years before the time of Jesus to develop more and more now to this day.

Jews have synagogues around the world and their called synagogues they may have other names but called synagogue. However, the reformed Jews and conservative Jews who are not as Orthodox.

They will call their synagogues, temples, so if you see a building that says see temple Beth shalom or something like that. That tells you it is not Orthodox because if it was Orthodox, it would only be called a synagogue, so there were many synagogues and one temple in ancient Israel today for an auto law for the last couple hundred years different Jewish groups have called their synagogues, temples, because they don't practice animal sacrifice on the phone on praying for animal sacrifice.

So hey this is his temples as good as any. You could say I hope that answers your question on file. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown hey just fine debates I've done both rabbis give activists agnostic professors. If you want to get extensive teaching series I have on DVD or specific messages on DVD this month.

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I believe you will be blessed in the process. Okay, let's see Josie worshiping on the sun God day and other pagan traditions assist of the Christian insured. Churches need to work towards changing feel toward Josie first. Don't think of Sunday's sun God day ever. Every day, and that respect is the same. We have certain names of of days okay but Thursday is not the day for four okay that's just the way the name Scott got past on the same name used for God in the Bible or from Ward 1 of them is is used for pagan deities is as well so names names can be used rightly or wrongly, in this case is just just a name okay the question is, is seventh day Sabbath, something that God is universally called everyone to. I've addressed that quite a few times, and if you go to my website.

Asked Dr. and in the search engine just-Sabbath you find lots of teaching on it. I do not believe that God gave a command anywhere in the Bible, and then even more specifically, in the New Testament that everyone must set aside.

Jew and Gentile.

Okay, not just Jews but Jew and Gentile, set aside the seventh day as Sabbath and we also know that fairly early on in in will be called church history. The believers met either early Sunday morning before work or late Sunday and the day after work to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. And it's out of that tradition grew for people to gather more more on Sunday because remember the vast majority coming in after a few decades, there were no longer Jewish Jews continue to come to faith, but more more Gentiles came in, and therefore these Gentile customs became competent, they want sinful customs that went wrong. Customs the Catholic Church in the fourth century decreed that the Sabbath was changed so that they had no authority to do that, but it's perfectly fine if Christians, especially Gentile Christians celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on a Sunday and gather together to do that fine wonderful and gobble one day turn everyone back to seventh day Sabbath in the millennial kingdom than what God be God and of messianic Jews find it most appropriate to together for Shabbat service together on Saturday, hundred percent for I supported believe in, but also support believe it.

If Gentile Christians in particular. But any believer feels to together on a Sunday great and if if the only time you can gather because of Uris life circumstances is on a Thursday night to worship the Lord.

That certainly acceptable before him.

So I encourage you not to feel torn unless the Lord himself is put something in your heart. Randy asked this. Thanks for the Twitter questions today is Judaism considered the spirit of antichrist. Since they deny Christ was God was resurrected and the Messiah will antichrist in terms of against Jesus being the Messiah. Yes, not Judaism is not primarily against Jesus being the Messiah. Judaism is its own religion with its own focus and that the most religious Jews are on the planet 99.9% of their thinking is not against Jesus. He's not in their thinking, it's hi, can we please God by observing Mr. how can we live is Jews in a way that's pleasing the site. How can we bring in the messianic era, and they're looking for the Messiah coming to this kingdom rule and reign on the earth. On the flipside, when Judaism interfaces with the proclamation of Jesus the Messiah. Yes, it is anti-Messiah antichrist. In that respect that it denies that he is the Messiah and denies that he's the son of God, so, so, yes, certainly that is true, but Judaism in its essence is not antichrist to this is in its essence is I would say without Christ. Without Jesus the Messiah in desperate need of him, but from a Jewish perspective. Judaism is self-sufficient.

Judaism is a beautiful religion, Judaism, by God's grace has preserved the Jewish people through the centuries and and they're just fine without our Jesus and so they look at it and praying for the real Messiah to come. Argument is he is the real Messiah.

Let's just see here if I can get to okay right so the question arises is being a Jew exclusively a matter of race or canopy a matter of the heart while it enrollments to what I understand Paul to be saying is this between two Jews, who's the real Jew was a Jew only outwardly circumcised outwardly, or the one who's a Jew with a circumcised heart as well as being a Jew physically that's that's what I understand is being said there okay that that's what that's what I believe is this being said between two Jews, who's the real Jew is not denied because if you if you get it Romans three the very next verse ready comes to the Romans to. Then he starts going through one of what's the advantage of being a Jew so metaphysical ethnic Jew, so I would say that even if a Gentile Christian feels in their heart. There is spiritual

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