Update on the SCOTUS Case That Could Overturn Roe v. Wade

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Is it really possible that Roe v. Wade could be overturned by the Supreme Court?

It's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Could it be that history is being made before our eyes? Could it be that decades of prayer and sacrifice and hard work to overturn Roe v. Wade, to stand up for the sanctity of life beginning in the womb? Could it be that answers to those prayers and results of that hard work? Could it be that these things are unfolding before our eyes?

This is Michael Brown. This is the line of fire, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. I'm talking about the oral hearings today in the Supreme Court, in the Dobbs case, the one that everyone is saying could overturn Roe v. Wade, either in one shot or go a massive incremental step towards that. Liberal CNN news analyst Jeffrey Toobin tweeted, if you believe that women should have the right to choose abortion, today's Supreme Court argument was a wall to wall disaster.

Put another way, if you care about babies in the womb, today's Supreme Court argument was a wall to wall victory. We're going to hear directly from my friend and colleague Pat Mahoney, who has been on the front lines of the pro-life movement for over 40 years, working tirelessly, praying tirelessly, being arrested for righteousness many, many times. He's been on the air talking to us about the significance of this case, and we'll back up a little bit and find out more. But we asked if we could speak today in the middle of a crazy day, Reverend Pat Mahoney calling in. Pat, thanks so much for taking the time to call in.

Welcome back to the line of fire. Thanks, Dr. Brown, and forgive me, for the last 72 hours we've been outside, so my voice sounds like I've conducted three weeks of a Pentecostal revival. Forgive me, but it was an extraordinary scene out in front of the court today. For the first time in 35 plus years I've been at the court for abortion cases, the pro-life side outnumbered the pro-choice side. There were thousands of people, they shut down First Street, which runs right along in front of the Supreme Court. Powerful speakers, we had candlelight vigils and prayer, and Dr. Brown, I have never seen in 48 years a commitment in our movement to pray like we did here. Across the board, there were literally prayer vigils and gatherings going on all across the city and the country over the last 48 hours, and I wish all your listeners could have been. It was high energy and drama when you were out on the streets.

Actually, a side note, the court took a suggestion that I offered. The public sidewalk in front of the Supreme Court is the only non-permitted sidewalk in DC, and these events can get pretty intense and emotional and things like this, and there's sound systems and competing rallies. So I suggested, why don't they put barricades right down the center of the court and on one side have one group and on another have another, and that's what they did. So it was definitely passionate and loud and boisterous, but it was peaceful and you could just hear the energy. I have to say this, I have never seen more energy on the pro-life side, and everyone was commenting, like we were expecting 10, 15,000 pro-choice demonstrators and their turnout was extremely low, and you can tell the energy wasn't there, the passion wasn't there. In the oral arguments, I don't know who listened, like COVID's been horrible for everyone, but only a side effect because you can't get in the court, they're now allowing it to be broadcast live. So it was this powerful moment where thousands are out in front of the court listening to the oral arguments going on inside. And Justice Sotomayor, I think God opened the eyes of so many people. She was like an activist on, it was just hard to believe that it was a Supreme Court justice on there.

She sounded more like a Planned Parenthood lobbyist. But my senses right now clearly will win the Dobbs, there's two big parts of this case. The one is the actual Dobbs case, which in essence bans most abortions after 15 weeks. I would be shocked if we didn't win that case, that aspect of the case. But the big element, the Attorney General, Attorney General Fitch, she asked that Roe would be overturned.

And that's the question. Literally, that's all you heard in front of the court today. Everyone talking to lawyers and leaders and people and advocates and will Roe be overturned? And it's just incredible.

I mean, it does possibly exist, like after 48 years and us being at the courts. And Dr. Brown, you've been at the forefront of this. I joke with you before, it's like Acts 12, where they're praying for Peter to get out of jail and he gets out of jail and he's knocking on the door and the young woman runs up and they go, leave us alone. We're praying for Peter to get out of jail.

She's going, he's downstairs. And like, I almost felt that way a little, although God's really been leading me since that point. But I got there really early.

I've been at the court as much as I can to kind of soak in the moment and to experience what's happening. It's like history. And last night we had a large candlelight vigil. I told everyone, I said, normally I would never at the 68-year-old grandpa tell people at a prayer vigil, take selfies. But I said, take them, record this moment.

In the Old Testament, they would have memorials and leave rocks or do other things. I said, memorialize this moment because this is history. If you could have taken pictures walking over Edmund Pettus Bridge or a Freedom Rider going down through the South, I go take pictures and record them and save them for your children and grandchildren, for when Roe is dismantled, you were there and you were part of it. So it was an extraordinary moment. It's a moment that we've been waiting for, for 48 years. By the way, it's windy outside, so I had to duck into a hotel and I'm so loud, they just threw me out of the room.

There's a conference going on and she goes, could you move over to the side a little bit? So that's the kind of energy I feel. And thank you for the prayers, thank you for the prayers of your listeners. You are all part of this community. And now we just have to not give up between now and then. We have to continue to passionately pray.

This is just stage one. Now, most likely the case will come out at the end of June, but it doesn't have to. I was on a Supreme Court case that was heard in the fall and the decision came out in January. But most likely that's when it will come out.

All right, so if you can stay with us, there are a bunch of things I want to talk through with you. I'm looking at CNN. I wanted to see what headlines they posted knowing it would be left-leaning slant. So it has breaking news. Then in red, Supreme Court leans toward limiting abortion.

That's what it says there. And then analysis, Robert Cavanaugh may be seeking middle ground. We'll come to some of that. By the way, just a quick side story. When I was embroiled in things when I lived in Maryland about raunchy magazines to check out counters at this family-friendly grocery store. So I'm doing these interviews on secular radio and sometimes I'm getting roasted by the host and by the callers. And I was supposed to do this one in person, but I wrongly estimated the time it would take to get to this place.

Again, this is way before cell phones and so on. So I'm driving, driving, realize I'm not going to get there in time. So I'm trying to find a place where I can call. I get into a hotel. I go downstairs in the hotel.

It seems like an isolated place. I get on a payphone. I call in, okay, so I'm doing this by phone. Well, even though I'm in this obscure location in the hotel, next thing they come by with one of these carts with all the dishes that they've been collecting from and the whole rattling section.

And then, then as I'm talking, they start vacuuming out. Could you, is it? And I remember, you know, and then finally when I got home, Nancy said to me, you didn't seem like as sharp as normal.

I was like, you have no idea what I was dealing with. So if suddenly you get carried out of the building, I moved over to the side here. Okay. So I, I do want to go back in a minute and talk about your prayer burden about this and how this case got revived after over a year. And Justice Kavanaugh had comments today about overturning previous decisions and, and you know, that, that will come to, but just really quickly when the Texas case was heard, separate case, related but separate, and not as much focus on that in terms of potentially overturning Roe v. Wade. Justice Kavanaugh had made a statement that what Texas was doing, you could potentially do with any other constitutional right. And people said, whoa, whoa, is he admitting that abortion is a constitutional right? That created some concern.

Did you follow, follow up with that carefully to analyze what he was actually saying? Cause it seems his remarks today were more encouraging than the remarks with the Texas case. Sure.

Yeah. Very closely with that because for me and to let your listeners know for prayer, I think Kavanaugh is the key to all of this. He'll be the fifth vote.

I mean we hope we get six, but he's definitely the fifth vote. I think what Justice Kavanaugh was trying to say in the Texas case was if you allow individual citizens to enforce a law and Justice Kavanaugh couched that in second amendment rights. So I think he was just more using like a figure of speech that if there is something established, then any person can come and say, like I would probably even use that terminology. I would say like if a state like Massachusetts said, we are going to ban all handguns and, but we're not going to, we're not going to allow the government to enforce, you know, action on it.

We're going to allow private citizens to do it. I would use that same language of constitutional rights. I think that's what Justice Kavanaugh was referring to when they argued that case on November 1st. I think reading the Supreme Court, it's like analyzing the lyrics on a Beatles song.

It's like there's 9 million layers and opinions and everything else. Got it. Got it. And so, so, so I think, I think we're good there, but for me, Dr. Brown, you raise an interesting point. I think Kavanaugh, people wondering how to pray, there's many layers to this, but one of the key ones is Justice Kavanaugh because he's, I think going to be that deciding fifth vote. All right, so, so we're going to kind of come back. Uh, Pat, so you got, you got two minutes to chill in the break here, but stay out of the cold because we need you healthy and strong in the days ahead. The great prayer, prayer battle friends is ahead. The great prayer battle is not behind us.

It is ahead. The oral arguments, very, very encouraging in terms of the way they went down today. That's being reported on both sides, but it could be months before final decision is rendered.

What will happen in the interim? That's key it's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us in my special guest, Reverend Patrick Mahoney reporting straight from DC after the oral arguments were heard in the Dobbs, Mississippi case, the pro-life case that is a potential of overturning Roe v. Wade.

We're going to break down some details for you. Uh, looking at headlines on MSNBC, again, wanting to see how this is being presented on liberal or leftist websites. Ominous Mississippi abortion case may turn SCOTUS quote precedent into a punchline outrage as conservative judges try to tie Roe v. Wade decision to Brown versus board of education. Mississippi launches full throated attack on Roe v. Wade. Future of Roe v. Wade in questions as Supreme court here is Mississippi challenges. Uh, Sotomayor, when does the life of a woman and putting her life at risk enter the calculus?

So these are headlines on MSNBC. So I want to go back, uh, Pat, again, there are two different cases that the court has now heard arguments for the Texas case. And that could just tie in with how that one is being enforced with private citizens saying, Hey, you're guilty of breaking the law reporting that. And then the Dobbs case, which has gotten more attention over the months. And then within the Dobbs case, there's the possibility that the Supreme court could simply uphold the law that Mississippi passed that was then struck down, which would be a major blow to Roe v. Wade. Or they could hear the attorney general's request. And obviously some of the Supreme court like Clarence Thomas and others have been chafing for a moment like this and actually vote to overturn Roe v. Wade and say it was faulty precedent, bad law from the start.

So we'll break that down. We'll talk about the oral arguments and then the importance of why I say the bigger prayer battle is ahead because of what happened years ago when there was a chance to overturn Roe v. Wade. But Pat, for those that are not familiar with this or to remind others that heard it, you're directly involved with this in prayer. Tell us about that day when you felt led to go into DC and pray about this case, which had been sitting idly for what, almost a year.

Yeah. So for those of you, and of course, Dr. Brown, you were, you lived for many years around DC. The traffic in DC is horrible. My office is there.

I live in Virginia. I was praying on Friday, I'll never forget the day, May 14th. And I felt the Holy Spirit put on my heart, go up to the Supreme court and pray for this Mississippi case, the Dobbs case, that I'm doing something significant. And I'm there, okay, it's Friday.

Normally I can make it to Capitol Hill without traffic, definitely in under an hour, it's Friday traffic, it would be a four hour round trip. So I'm having this internal spiritual conversation rumbling with God, I go up. I go up, I pray at the Supreme court, I make sure to get it on film, just A, to have people pray for me, but B, I want to make sure that when you say you have a prophetic word, the scripture is very important about accountability and making sure what you say.

And so it's on file, if you will. And I prayed on that Friday, May 17th and within the afternoon, May 17th, Monday, the earliest the decision could have been made, 10 AM, it came out that while the Dobbs case had been at the Supreme court since June of 2020 with no action, just a few days and the first public time they could announce it, they say, we're taking it. My heart was overwhelmed. I felt like the Holy Spirit put deeply embedded within my spirit. There's an open heaven over abortion. There's a time of favor. There's a time of obedience and that we need to press in.

So Dr. Brown was one of the first ones I called with this. We got together, we began to encourage people to pray across the country. And then in the midst of this, out of nowhere, no one expected this. Texas then happened and the Supreme court refuses to block that Texas order, which law, which in essence banned abortions after six weeks. So we were sensing, we are realizing that 48 years of people praying in the brutal heat in frigid temperatures, in wind, in snow storm, in the worst conditions possible, sacrificing many dear friends that I know. And you know, for me, I owe $7 million in fines for my pro-life work. People lost their homes, spent years in prison for standing for the pro-life issues.

Last night at our candlelight vigil, we had Joan Andrews there, Dr. Monica Miller, Eric Scheidler, these historic figures in our movement. They were there. And we said, this decision came out of a place.

That's what people realize. That's what I love about the faith chapter and other things. This, I mean, this argument came out of a place of sacrifice and commitment and prayer. So we all have been praying and everyone was just saying, in fact, on the way over here, just coming from the court, we bumped into Melissa Oden, who shared with us, Melissa is an actual abortion survivor. Her mother tried to abort her on a late term abortion. She came out alive. The nurse threw her in the trash. And the doctor threw in the trash and a nurse found her. And now almost 40 years later, she's alive and has children of her own.

We were just sharing this historic moment. And Dr. Brown, of course, we know the pro-life movement is not, it's varied and rich and there's some Christian and some secular. But for me, there's a linkage between revival, the Holy Spirit moving, God's blessing.

If we do not address the shedding of innocent blood, if we do not address our indifference and apathy toward our brothers and sisters who experienced this kind of violence and the women who are made a commodity out of this, how can we truly expect the Holy Spirit to ignite spiritual awakening in our church? So it isn't just for the sake of ending 64 million abortions. It's literally the future of our nation and the future of our church. And people say, well, you know, I'm pro-life, kind of, I believe in it, but it doesn't really impact me. I'm 50 and my wife's 50 or I'm this or that and we would never get an abortion. Brothers and sisters, listen, if we in America can allow the taking of an innocent life for the full nine months of pregnancy for any reason, which is what Roe v. Wade allows, when no freedom, no liberty, we have been guaranteed by the Constitution is secured.

How can we say we have freedom of religion when the government would allow the killing, not only allow now, but promote and pay for the killing of these innocent children? So a lot at stake here. And Dr. Brown, you made a good point. People think if Roe got overturned, that would be the end. No, brothers and sisters, it's just the beginning. It's the first step. Right. It pushes things back to states.

Yeah. So in fact, let me let me let me jump in and of course, underscore what Pat's saying about the shedding of innocent blood and the least of these. And it's not to say you don't care about mothers and difficult decisions people face and rape victims and mothers being told, fathers being told your baby's got this congenital defect and it's going to suffer terribly and only live a few months. And it's not just that everyone everyone is having an abortion out of convenience, like, ah, whatever, have a one night stand. And if things don't work out, kill the baby.

There are some like that, but there are others are just finances or mental pressure. The pro-life movement that I know cares about the baby in the womb, the baby outside of the womb and the mother and the father and says, let's work together to help everyone. But so so these are it is love that motivates us, period.

Love, love for God, love for our neighbor, love for the baby in the womb, love for the mother, love for the father. And Pat, over the years doing radio, I've gotten many a call from women who are Christian women who know they've been forgiven. But the moment they call in and break down sobbing about abortions and they're talking about 40 years ago, 30 years ago.

So the lasting scars are real in that regard. But very, very quickly, then I want to talk about the reason that we have to pray very intensely between now and when the decision is made. But the fact that the court agreed to hear this at all was significant, right? Because the Dobbs had been overruled by a federal court. And therefore, if the Supreme Court wanted to leave it there, they could just leave it there because that's the way the courts that's Roe v. Wade. That's where things stand at the moment, right? So the fact that they agreed to hear it gave hope from the start that they may want to say something about this.

But Pat, we've got about a minute and a half before the break. What happened with the first opportunity to overturn Roe v. Wade? And it almost was overturned.

What happened? Thirty years ago in the Casey decision, which if you listen to the case today, you heard mentioned over and over. After the case, Dr. Brown, they take a preliminary vote. In fact, that vote will happen this Friday on the Dobbs case.

It's not binding, but it almost always turns out to be the case. In that case, 30 years ago, the Supreme Court voted 5-4 to overturn Roe v. Wade. But in the midst of that, Justice Blackmun and particularly Sandra Day O'Connor influenced Justice Kennedy, and they came with the undue burden standard. So even though it looked great today, even though it may appear that Dobbs will be upheld and Roe may be dismantled, we still have a long way to go. And in 1992, the original vote was to overturn Roe v. Wade, and then it was moved to 5-4 the other way with the undue burden standard.

So we're not home free by any means, no matter how much celebrating there was at the court today by the pro-life side. Got it. Hey, can you stay with us just a couple more minutes on the other side of the break? Sure. Awesome. All right.

So get yourself something warm to drink. We will be right back. Friends, we're going to dig in a little deeper into exactly what happened today and what we can glean from that and how we should be praying.

But friends, this is big. This is history. Even this broadcast, as we talk about this with Reverend Pat Mahoney, is historic. What will we do as the people of God?

We'll be right back. Thanks so much for joining us on this historic day where the Supreme Court heard oral arguments regarding the Dobbs pro-life case from Mississippi, the one that everyone is saying has the potential of overturning Roe v. Wade. My guest joining me today, Reverend Pat Mahoney, has been on the front lines of the pro-life movement with great personal sacrifice over many, many years. Pat, very quickly, if you could sum up, what were the most encouraging signs from the oral arguments today? And for those not familiar with Supreme Court, obviously the questions someone asked, the way they asked the questions, the response within the courtroom, especially at times when there would be more observers there, those could be very telling.

If I come up with my biggest line of the day as someone pleading a case and it's clear that the judges are holding back their score, trying not to laugh out loud, it's like, okay, that didn't look good for my side. So a lot can be gleaned from this. So what to you were the most encouraging signs today?

Okay. Well, first of all, before the arguments, just the fact that they took the case and put a stay on the Texas abortion ban. So that was great going into this.

I think there were several key moments. First of all, on the pro-choice side, I thought their attorney did a fine job. We actually saw her after the case, but she offered nothing new.

It was just a regurgitation of what we have always heard from them. Secondly, we need five justices here. We want six, but we'll take five, which would most likely be Justice Thomas, Justice Alito, and then the three new Trump appointees.

They didn't offer anything. Every now and then, I mean, we know Thomas and Alito are solid on this, but the three new justices where everyone is focused, they did not for one second indicate that they would be uncomfortable overturning precedent. In fact, Justice Barrett was pretty strong in some of her questioning and pretty direct in some of her questioning. So what you have to look at is the justices kind of not wavering, but wondering, and there seemed to me, now I'm not an attorney. I've been in Supreme Court cases, have won Supreme Court cases as a plaintiff and defendant, and have lost some. So I want to tell the people that I'm not a perditioned saint.

You have a kidney problem here. But having been a close court observer, I was very encouraged by the fact they brought up Brown v. Board of Education, Plessy v. Ferguson. For the listeners, those were bad Supreme Court decisions, particularly on the issue of racial justice, and they implied that, look, those cases were dismantled. Like when you talk about precedent, it's not unique. There have been many cases in the Supreme Court that have been overturned.

And so I didn't see any hesitancy on the five justices that they would have a problem putting back. And then, I don't know if it was Gorsuch or Alito, it's hard to tell because you couldn't see, but one really discussed, since there is no specific verbiage in the Constitution about abortion, why can't the states regulate it? I mean, why should we carve out this federal kind of standard when it isn't even there?

Let it go to the states. So I think no new compelling argument was offered that we haven't heard before. It was a standard thing. Again, the attorney for Jackson Women's Health Organization did a fine job, but she didn't give us like this dynamic new reason, like the undue burden.

That was a whole new concept that we had never heard before. And I didn't see any of the five justices saying that we have serious problems with overturning precedent. Now, I will say this. My prediction is, I think we'll lose the Texas case. I think we'll definitely win the Dobbs ban. And the $64,000 question is, will we overturn Roe? And I think that's what every listener needs to be praying for, because even though if we win Dobbs, it's a great step forward. It'll help dismantle Roe. That's not what we want.

It'll actually maybe add a lot of confusion. We've had 71 laws, state laws passed in 2020-21, and they all get caught up in the federal courts and the circuit court of appeals. Overturning and dismantling Roe will allow these laws to move forward. And listen, our pro-life, it's not, if we get an overturning here, we are just at a starting line. We're not at a finish line. We're at a starting line. Now, thank God several states have what are called trigger laws on both sides. If Roe is overturned, there are, I think, eight or nine states that immediately, abortions are not allowed in their states.

This is what we have to move forward to. And what I love, Dr. Brown, there's 330,000 roughly churches in America. There are thousands of local pro-life groups. Our greatest strength is local, and we want to take this struggle locally where we have a significant advantage. They have depended on political leaders and the courts, and that's where we want to be. I'm looking at a video that you posted on Twitter. So excited to see over 1,000 students from Liberty University, where our oldest granddaughter, Ellie, is now in her junior year in her third year and loving it there, see over 1,000 students from Liberty University coming to the Supreme Court to embrace life.

You have the younger generation and a lot of women saying, yes, we care about the life of the unborn. This is massive. It's massive, and they would have had more.

I was talking with the students. They couldn't get enough buses. They would have had more than that. That is wonderful to see. And, look, it's foreseeable that you can even have a 6-3 ruling that upholds Dobbs, right? That's not out of the question, but that doesn't – I think that's very – that's in the realm between possible and probable. Right. Certainly 5-4 seems very strong. It is very probable. Right.

6-3 even possible, but then the key thing is, will the court take that step to overturn Roe v. Wade? So remember, friends, these are just regular people with families. They know what it is to have their name mentioned in the press. They know what it is to have their kids talked about in school.

These are regular human beings that can be influenced. So we need to be praying. And for all of us who voted for President Trump with one of the biggest reasons being Supreme Court appointees, things happen in better ways than we could have imagined with three justices being appointed and the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg suddenly and then the appointing of Amy Coney Barrett.

I mean, a lot of things happen. So this is a moment we may not see again. It could be for many, many years, or it could be that America doesn't even survive divine judgment. So it really is a great time to pray, but to pray with faith, with momentum, with a sense more than you've seen, Pat, with the wind being in our sails, and then let things work out state by state.

You may end up having pro-life states and pro-abortion states, and you may even see God bringing blessing on one and God making statements on behalf of. So let's really honor the Lord, and let's make it clear in all of our statements that we care about everyone, that we care about the mothers, we care about the fathers, we care about the baby in the womb and the baby outside of the womb. Let us not take on the militant, angry spirit, but one of broken-hearted compassion that stands in the gap.

And Pat, you've done that in an exemplary way for so many years. So we are standing with you. Deeply appreciate your heart, your passion, and let's pray this through, man. Thanks, Dr. Brown. God bless to everyone, and let's continue.

We'll keep you updated. Thank you so much, Pat. Really appreciate your time today.

All right. Friends, if you want to weigh in 866-34-TRUTH, feel free to do so. If you consider yourself a pro-choice Christian, tell us why.

I'd like to have a friendly discussion with you about that. If you just want to weigh in on the Lord, your pro-life issue, by all means give us a call 866-34-TRUTH. Friends, we've got to seize the moment.

We've got to seize the moment. And in a moment, I want to talk to you about how to do that. I want to open up the Scriptures and talk about how to do that. First, I just want to make an appeal to each of you. If you enjoy the Line of Fire broadcast, if you feel what we're doing is important, if you have been helped by the broadcast, then would you also help others? Would you extend that help to others?

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Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Have you read my latest article? Oh, it's another eye-opener and it is very intense. You can find it at AskDrBrown.org. It's the Washington Post now endorsing, quote, conversion therapy for trans-identified children.

You don't want to miss this. There are trans activists now, psychologists, others, medical doctors who are saying, well, you know, we are, we should slow things down with kids and we shouldn't be putting on them puberty blockers or we should be giving them more counseling and oh, the thing we've been shouting for years, vilified for it, mocked for it. Why are they saying this now?

And how is it that I am now working closely with a woman who identifies as a man, female to male transgender, who is an agnostic? How is that we are now working closely to shout as loudly as we can for the well-being of the children? You're going to hear more about that in the days to come.

So, check out the latest article AskDrBrown.org. Okay, I do want to try to get to a call or two, but first a spiritual principle. You ready? Second Kings 13, Elisha the prophet is sick and the king comes to him, the king of Israel, and he's concerned about Aram, Syrians, Aramans, and the battle that they're in. So, Elisha puts his arms, his hands on the king's arms, has him shoot an arrow out symbolically as the Lord's arrow of victory against the Aramans. They shoot it out and he proclaims that the victory of the Lord over the Aramans. Then he tells the king, who's not a godly man, tells the king, take the arrows and beat them on the ground. Now, he understands the symbolism of this, okay? In other words, this king understands prophetic symbolism and you're being told here, if I tell you, okay, let's put on some boxing gloves, I'm going to put on pads, and every punch is a blow against the enemy. So, give it all you got, right? And this is, you know, it's prophetic symbolism, all right? Well, you're going to, if it's me, I'm going to pay it as hard as I can, as long as I can, and then catch my breath and keep doing it until either I collapse or the prophet tells me, okay, stop, stop, all right?

That's what I would do. So, the king takes the arrows and hits the ground three times. He might have even did it in kind of a week, what, two, three, and Elisha says, you should have beaten it, five, six, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Then you would have totally wiped them out. Now, you're just going to defeat them three times. This, friends, is a spiritual principle. This is a time when we seek God earnestly, when we cry out to God earnestly, when we press in. It's like getting closer to the finish line, when you get that second wind or you move into that fifth gear and you say, okay, we're going to press in, we're going to get home now. I hardly ever jog, got a treadmill at home, and I'll normally put it on a real steep incline and walk slowly and then listen to the word or do something else, you know, praying, just like prayer walk kind of thing while I'm on it. I don't jog a lot, but I decided recently, let me just try to jog more and just kind of get used to it as a relaxing thing to do and then gradually up my speed and so on. So as I'm doing it, you know, the closer you get to the end, the more energy you have, even though it's the hardest part, right? Because you're at your most tired, you know, the same when I'm rowing, it's like, okay, I'm in the home stretch now and I got to row, you know, in my rowing machine.

So on the one hand, it's hard because you're tired, but it's like, okay, I can pull harder or I can run faster, I can, because I'm getting close. That's where we are in terms of a potential breakthrough, that this could be the greatest moment to overturn Roe v. Wade that we'll ever have. It's certainly the greatest that we've had in decades. And we may not have a moment like this again, we don't know. So seize the moment and pray, God, give these justices a heart for righteousness. Give these justices, share your heart.

Can you pray that simple prayer? God share your heart with the Supreme Court justices and those who see things rightly, give them immovable conviction. May they be more concerned with what eternity will say than what time and history will say in the immediate. May they be more concerned with God's heart and God's perspective and those you feel to pray for by name, be it Justice Kavanaugh, be it Justice Roberts, be it Justice Barrett, be it Justice Gorsuch, because you can be 99.99999% sure you know where Alito and Thomas stand. Lord, your heart, perhaps there'll even be a miracle where one of the liberal justices will have a change of heart. Hagan or Sotomayor or Breyer.

God can do anything. All right, 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Harlan in Durham, North Carolina.

Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown, for taking my call. You're very welcome. First, I'd like to say that I strongly agree with you and Reverend Mahoney that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. But I think you're overlooking something when you seem to be assuming that if it's overturned, the states will decide.

There's another way that Roe could be overturned, and that is to declare the child in the womb to be a person and apply the right to life provisions of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, and that would abolish abortion. Right. Do you see that as a possibility? I don't know whether it's a possibility. I can't predict the future.

It's unlikely, but I think that's what we should pray for is the abolition, not that each state decides whether murder is okay. Understood. And I might add that the Dobbs case deals with the 2018 Mississippi gestational age act.

While I support the overturning of Roe v. Wade, I do not support that act because it conceptually ends with, and then you can kill the baby. If I'm correct, sir, just because I don't hear from a lot of Harlan's, we had a similar conversation some months ago. You recommended I have someone on the air, which I brought on the air. Is that correct? Yes. Yes, sir. Got it.

Got it. Well, I appreciate you calling in and raising the issue of there's an even higher goal. There is a higher goal even beyond overturning Roe v. Wade, namely the court making a statement just as the court found a, quote, constitutional right for abortion, that the court could find a constitutional right for the life of the child in the womb and therefore no state could have pro-abortion laws, even from day one of conception of a baby. So when I asked possibility, you knew what I was saying just in terms of the natural, not in terms of God can do anything.

So in the natural, that seems beyond highly unlikely. But if we're praying, yeah, we're praying for the eradication of abortion, for the abolition of legalized abortion in America. Hey, I appreciate you calling and raising that again in the midst of it.

Let us not lose sight of the greatest goal and of the concern for every life in the womb, even those that would not be protected even under a Dobbs law. So thank you, sir, for calling and reminding us. You're welcome. So, yeah, I remembered Harlan calling again, just something about Harlan and where is in North Carolina.

I remember him calling and when I believe I had Janet Porter on and Heartbeat Bill and he recommended that I have someone on with with another position who said, OK, this is good, but we've got to go further. So thank you again for for that reminder, sir. I do appreciate it. So yes, we want to see Roe v. Wade overturned. Yes, we do. But we want to see something even greater happen. Now, let me come back to one last thing. Revival and righteousness are joined at the hip. They're tied together. Hand in glove.

Why? Well, if you have sin in the land, let's say slavery. Let's picture this. Could you imagine a coast to coast, spiritual outpouring, deep revival, massive repentance in the church of our sins in the midst of slavery being legal in America, right, without slavery being abolished? Could you imagine that?

No. How could it happen? How could it be that we have a genuine turning of heart and that we have a genuine repentance of sins in our own lives and we don't repent of that glaring sin? Could you imagine that in the days of segregation in the South, that you could have a true outpouring of the Holy Spirit with deep repentance and transformation of lives that did not result in beginning in the church taking down walls of segregation?

In the Azusa Street outpouring, in the turn of the century here in America, which gives birth to the modern Pentecostal charismatic movement today, which includes well over 600 million people worldwide, that it was said that the blood washed away the racial barriers there. And the principal leader, William Seymour, was a black man who, when he wanted to study at Charles Parham's Bible School, Parham was white and was in the midst of a segregated society. He said, well, you can sit in the hallway and listen.

You can't actually be in the class. We'll leave the door open. And that's how bad things were. That was considered like a step in the right direction. That's how bad things were. And there were critics saying, oh, it's terrible.

You know, you've got like a white woman falling into the arms of a black man in the service and so on. And, you know, that's the way it was being reported by the critics. But in the Lord, the race division was washed away. So how could it be that we'd have a real outpouring without seeing abortion, this horrific crime against the unborn, the least of these, the innocent ones? How could there be real revival without seeing repentance here?

And wouldn't repentance here be a spark to see further revival? May it be, Lord, bring it to pass. May the Supreme Court rule righteously. That's our prayer. Back with you tomorrow. Oh, my friend, Yisrael Parham is going to be joining us for a special Thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast. You won't forget what you hear tomorrow. God willing, trust us. Your program powered by the Truth Network.