Dismantling Lies about Abortion and Homosexuality

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. We are about to debunk some leftist lies about abortion and homosexuality.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Well, we are going to tackle some controversies today. We are going to tackle some difficult issues and we'll do our best to do it with grace and truth together, serving as your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the broadcast. This is our second day now broadcasting from our new studio in Fort Worth, Texas at Mercy Culture Church. So when I'm down monthly, God willing, teaching at the Spiritual Leadership School, we can do our live broadcast as always.

We had a few glitches, not on the audio, but on the video. Yesterday, we got so many moving pieces in place, but team is doing great. Our team here in Fort Worth, our teams in North Carolina, and we are moving forward. So you're going to be equipped. You're going to be helped. We do our best to strengthen you so you can stand on the front lines. We do our best to give you the tools that you need to tackle difficult, controversial issues.

This is the world in which we live. To this moment, there are no hotter topics than the topic of abortion and the topic of homosexuality, transgenderism, the larger LGBTQ complex of issues, people, and ideas. Bottom of the hour, I'm going to be joined by Janet Boynes, herself a former lesbian with a powerful ministry to help those with unwanted same-sex attractions and to help the church help those who are struggling. But first, I'm going to focus on abortion.

866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87, 884. I would love to hear from you if you differ with me. I would love to hear from you if you think that nobody else has the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her own body or what is inside of her body. I would love to hear from you if you think it is an intrusion of society, especially of men, to say, well, we're pro-life and therefore the mother does not have the right to abort her baby.

That would be for any circumstances. Obviously, if you're in a situation where the mother is dying as a direct result of a pregnancy and you have to choose one life over another, that's a separate ethical question, but it's not the question we're dealing with 99.99% of abortions that take place. And it's interesting that the large majority of Americans today do not want abortions in the second trimester and on. I mean, there has been a shift in thinking.

Why? Because there's more consciousness of the humanity of the baby in the womb. Ultrasounds. Those have helped men and women see the reality of the baby in the womb. And not only so, the fact that children, babies are surviving at younger and younger ages with medical help that can be provided.

That is a little child in there and that child could readily be aborted in other circumstances. So there's been a change of thinking. But I want to address some misconceptions. And again, if you think I'm wrong, this is one reason we pay to be on live talk radio so that folks who differ can call in and tell me why. Folks who differ can express their differences.

866-348-7884. Okay. I want to dismantle some leftist lies about abortion. I wrote an article last night. It's on stream.org.

It's on our website, askdrbrown.org and elsewhere. And the title is no, the pro-life movement is not about controlling women. No sooner did the Texas heartbeat bill become law last week. And I was rejoicing in that while reaching out to women who were upset over that and saying, hey, let's talk, let's understand why we have these views.

No sooner did that happen, I began to notice people and they're tweeting on my Twitter account and responding on social media. It's just about control. This is nothing other than men trying to control women.

That's what it's about. Now, let me just say this honestly. The moment you raise this argument, you have disqualified yourself from being taken seriously because I know for a fact as someone in the pro-life movement and with friends who've been in the pro-life movement for decades and knowing many women in the pro-life movement, that that is 100% false. That that is simply not true. Now, if someone wants to discuss with me or debate why I believe what I believe, say as a Jew who believes in Jesus, and they're going to tell me that my beliefs are wrong and I'm misinterpreting the Bible, that's a discussion we can have. If they tell me the whole reason I got into Jewish ministry was to get rich, well, obviously they've just disqualified themselves. That's utterly and completely bogus.

And by the way, it doesn't work like that. In any case, if someone wants to discuss issues of abortion in a real way where we're dealing with the real questions, that's fine. When people come with these misconceptions, with these misnomers, with these misrepresentations, whether they're making them up, whether they believe them to be true, they're indicating that they're missing the real issue. So let me, let me read to you from an article in the New Republic from a couple of years ago.

This is as different laws were being passed in Alabama and other states. So it was a Laurie Penny writing in the New Republic, May, 2019. And she said, the goal of the wave of anti-abortion laws in America is to put female sexuality under strict and brutal state control. And the headline stated that like this, the criminalization of women's bodies is all about conservative male power.

So let me quote her at more length. She is repeating common pro-abortion talking points, but with a lot of passion and eloquence. She said, in a sadistic, nationwide legislative binge against women's basic reproductive rights, draconian new anti-abortion measures have also won wide margins of approval in Georgia, Ohio, and Missouri, in addition to Alabama.

She says, this has been coming for a long time. It's all part of a strategic frontal assault on women's rights to choose. A deliberate ploy to overturn the landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling upholding abortion access as a constitutional right in the United States.

These laws are not about whether a fetus is a person. They're about enshrining maximalist control over the sexual autonomy of women as a foundational principle of conservative rule. They're about owning women. They're about women as things. As I say in my article, the only problem with this argument is that it is entirely fallacious.

Okay, so let me explain why I say this is entirely fallacious. Number one, there are plenty of women who are leaders in the pro-life movement. Their goal is not to control other women or subjugate other women or put men in charge of other women. So the picture that's painted as if this is a male-dominated draconian patriarchal mindset designed simply to control women and keep them down and that men are doing it. Well, how do you deal with the fact that for decades many of the key leaders of the pro-life movement have been women to this moment? And some of the most articulate, because they are women, because they are mothers. Some of them had abortions themselves. Some of them were victims of abortion and survived.

So that's the first problem with this. The second problem, let's deal with men. Where are we trying to control women?

Please tell me where. Are we telling women, those of us who are men in the pro-life movement, are we telling women what jobs they can work? Are we telling women what schools they can or can't go to? Are we telling women what kind of career choices they can or cannot make? Are we telling women how they must live? We have moral standards, but we're not trying to control someone else. That's between them and God. Are we telling them who to have sex with or not have sex with? To use birth control or not to use birth control. Whether their sexual expression is straight or bi or trans or something else, are we telling them you have to do this, you can't do this, you can do that?

If you want to be Amish or you want to be a belly dancer or you want to be a stripper or you want to be a CEO of a big company, that's your life as a woman. It's not for me as a man to tell you what to do, nor do I know any leaders in the pro-life movement who are trying to control the choices that women make aside from this one thing. Don't kill the baby.

That's it. It is all about the fetus as a person. It's the exact opposite of what Laurie Penny says. It's got nothing to do with male control of women. Again, just think, this is not like the Taliban in Afghanistan that are stopping women from getting education, that are stopping women from serving in public in various ways, and that are enforcing on them certain dress codes.

I would like people to dress more modestly, men and women. I think it's better and healthier and doesn't degrade us, but whatever, it's a free society. As long as you're not breaking nudity laws and things like that, whatever, it's free society. I would rather that some female rap star is not recording some unbelievably raunchy, salacious, sexually degrading video. I don't think that's good for girls and young women to learn from, but that's her life. She's not breaking the law. That's her life. That's her choice, and if people make her rich for that, that's their choice. I'm not trying to exert control over what a woman does and how she lives and what she thinks, whether she reads the Bible or not, or what she's going to post online, or what she's going to say.

That's her life. What gives any of us the right to tell another human being what to do or not to do? As long as you say, well, we have laws, the blood laws, and don't hurt somebody else. In this case, don't hurt the baby in the womb. It's all about the personhood, the baby in the womb, and that's the thing that's being avoided.

Why? Because you can't win that argument and be pro-abortion. Once you recognize the humanity of the baby in the womb, you have lost your, quote, right to abort. It's not a mass of cells. It's not a clump of tissue. It's not a tumor to be removed. As one feminist woman talked about getting pregnant decades ago and the tumor was removed. No, it's not a tumor. It's not a mass of cells, a clump of tissue. It's a human being designed by God with purpose, destiny, and life. It has not reached its potential outside of the womb, but it is a human being inside the womb. Hence, that's the point we emphasize, and that's the overwhelming point we emphasize, and that's the point that the others will not even touch or hardly touch remotely. Lila Rose, one of the key leaders in the pro-life movement, a young woman who's been prominent for years now, she's pregnant, and she tweeted this out.

I cite it towards the end of my article. She said this, I'm pregnant with our son due in November. She said his body is not my body. I do not have the right to kill him, right? Her body, her choice, but that's another body in her body.

She said no woman or man has the right to kill any child, even when that child is 100% physically dependent on them, period. That's the issue. That is the issue. It's a human being. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. to survive the woman's reproductive choice. If a woman or boyfriend or husband, whatever, decided not to use protection a certain way or decided to have sex knowing there was the possibility of pregnancy, those are her reproductive right, those are her choices, and the consequences of those choices could be a baby. Even if there were all attempts to use protection and not have a child and a pregnancy resulted, the fact of the matter is terminating the life of the baby in the womb has nothing to do with, quote, reproductive rights. But these are the euphemisms.

These are the terms that are used. Someone was trying to rebut my article and post it on Twitter, look, facts matter, abortion is healthcare. I said the vast majority, the vast, vast, vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with the health of the mother. That's number one.

And number two, every abortion destroys the health of the baby. How is that healthcare? 866-3-4 truth. Let us go to an anonymous caller from Maryland. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hello, Dr. Brown. I have definitely a lot of questions regarding the abortion side of things, especially since I've been seen voices, so many pro-choice voices, and even some like voices from family members who although don't like abortion, but are just like, well, they're not doing much for people outside of the womb, so why bother? So that's one of the things. But the other thing that I was thinking of was that a Christian friend of mine once posted on Facebook, look like a series of lines that said the phrase, men shouldn't make laws for women's bodies. And although I may not have to respond to her right away, I just want to find out what exactly is the right way to go respond to that in case they actually tell me about that.

Yeah, sure thing. Thank you for the call. So number one, as far as the idea, well, these pro-life people aren't really helping children outside the womb, that's simply false. Every pro-life ministry and organization that I know of works actively with a mother if she decides to keep her baby or a couple decide, okay, we're going to have the baby. They work actively with them either to refer them to programs or organizations that can give support or arrange for adoption or help with finances.

Ministries we've worked with in North Carolina for years will celebrate every year. They'll send pictures. Here's the party we had when the baby was born, and we've been supporting the family in the first couple of years to help them get on their feet and things like that. If you go to a pregnancy life center and say, I'm thinking about an abortion, are there options?

They will do their best to think with you in a long-term way and especially give immediate help. And I'm here at Mercy Culture in Fort Worth, Texas, right before coming up to do radio, I went over to the food bank, which has given away tens of millions of meals to the community around Fort Worth to help during COVID, and it's unbelievable. The warehouse there, all the fresh foods and other foods that are stocked, and they are on the front lines. They are the leading distributor of free food in the city to help those in need during COVID.

Why? Because that's what churches do. That's what Christians do. They help the poor.

They help the needy. So that's just a convenient lie to say pro-lifers aren't doing anything. The second thing is to say that men shouldn't have the right to pass laws about women's bodies, but we're not passing laws about women's bodies. We're working with women together to pass laws to protect the baby's body.

That's the issue. It's not the woman's body. In other words, if the woman wants to get pregnant or not get pregnant, if she wants to be fat or thin, if she wants to be an athlete, she wants to be a couch potato, that's her body. That's her choice. Whatever she does, no one's controlling that.

No one's trying to control that. It's a matter of protecting the life of the baby. So the question is, should men be allowed to pass laws to protect innocent lives? Would it have been right for courageous German men to say, we're going to pass laws to protect Jews from being slaughtered or gypsies from being slaughtered or others being slaughtered during the Holocaust?

Or for men in the murderous days of Pol Pot in Cambodia to say, we're going to rise up and we're going to pass laws to stop this, to stop the slaughter of the innocent. Men, along with women, should always be involved in passing laws to protect the innocent. And that's what it's about. It's not the woman's body.

It's the baby's body inside the woman. That's all we're seeking to protect. And a good man, a godly man, a compassionate man should do that very thing. Hey, thank you, sir, for the call. 866-342.

Let's go to Renee in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Are you there? Can you hear me? Are you talking straight in your phone? Yes, I am. Yeah, can you hear me?

Yeah, a little hard, but go ahead, please. Oh, okay. The question, and I don't know if it's a question or a statement, but if God gives us the free will to choose to do right from wrong, to choose to follow him, to choose to abide by his laws, he gives us the free will to choose, then I don't understand why men decide that it's their right to force women one way on this issue. And also, I believe that men are getting off scot-free with their part of this, because to me, if this was truly an issue to save a life, then it should involve both involved entities, the man and the woman.

So where that comes in would be fornication. So if it's against the law to abort a child, then why isn't it against the law for a man to commit fornication that will help create that child? So I think that you, you know, the people that are pro-life are starting in at the wrong spectrum of, you know, what this dilemma is. You know, once this person gets pregnant, and then they have to decide all of the decisions that come about from, you know, a pregnancy that may be unwanted, and the man just, you know, he goes his way, he has no accountability, and I think that's wrong.

And then on the back end, the man will come back in, or the men will come back in and decide, we need to make a law to keep these women from doing this. So Renee, yeah, I appreciate the comments, and they're important, so I want to respond. Let me just ask you a question. If a mother has a baby, and the baby is crying constantly, and the baby is sick, and the mother is just drained, can't sleep, can't work, does she have the right to kill that baby because it's hurting her life? She does not, and I'm not saying that. No, no, no, no, no, my point is, we do right to have laws against murder, correct?

You're right, yes, you're correct. Right, so the key thing there, Renee, is that that's where we start, that if that's a human being inside the womb, that you can't kill it. So that's why we have laws against murder.

It doesn't matter if men pass the laws or women pass the laws, there are laws against murder. So if we believe that's a human being in the womb, that's alive, formed by God, with its DNA at the moment of conception, with purpose, destiny, potential, the Bible clearly sees the baby in the womb as a human being with numerous passages, so that's why we pass laws about that. You are a hundred percent right in saying that this is not just about the mother, it's about the father, and all of our friends that work in front of abortion clinics, if a couple goes in, they're talking to the dad, they're reaching out, and those that work, encouraging them to have the child, they work with the mom and dad together, and deadbeat dads who either have the baby and run, or just want to have sex with no consequences, or they have children and they don't pay alimony after a divorce, I mean that's a plague in our society, there's no question. But please understand, we have been preaching about sexual purity before we were preaching about abortion, in other words we were talking about, in the church, sins of fornication, sins of adultery, and the destructive nature of those before we were talking about abortion as the issue that it is, so we need to teach responsibility. There was a time there was a time in America where fornication was illegal, where adultery was illegal, that is not our culture, that is not who we are, and obviously we say okay laws are placed here in terms of hurting other people, affecting other people, stealing from other people, and other things if you make choices to watch porn in your own home as opposed to kidnap a child into porn, or engage in kiddie porn, whatever, you know there are certain lines that are crossed where this is legal, this isn't, but a hundred percent there needs to be more responsibility on the man, and a hundred percent on the couple that engages in sex, there could be consequences namely a pregnancy. So it is not about men trying to control women, it is a matter of trying to preserve the life of the baby in the womb, and it is a matter of men and women working together for longer lasting relationships, and so we're breaking down on a whole bunch of different ways in our society, and has been for many many years, and the church is messed up too.

Many in the church are guilty of these very sins, fornication, adultery, abortion, porn, no fault divorce, so the repentance always begins with the church, that's why we've been preaching that before anything, we need to repent, we need to humble ourselves, we need to ask forgiveness at the same at the same moment, let's not forget the baby in the womb, let's not forget, let's do everything we can to give that baby a chance to make it out. Hey Renee, thank you for calling in with your comments, I appreciate it. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us today on the Line of Fire, day two from broadcasting from our brand new studio at Mercy Culture Church in Fort Worth, Texas, where I've been here this week to inaugurate, teach at the very first semester of the Spiritual Leadership School, and plan to be here God willing monthly so they put a studio together for me, we've got our expert teams in North Carolina and Texas putting this together and hopefully we are smooth sailing to date. We have been addressing some of the lies on the left, distortions of truth in terms of key social issues, first abortion and now homosexuality. And there was a Netflix documentary about quote, praying away the gay or so-called conversion therapy and it presented a certain picture, it wasn't entirely one-sided but it was largely one-sided and gave some very misleading impressions. And we want to address the lies, we want to separate fact from fiction.

And one of the best people I could think of doing this is Janet Boynes, she leads Janet Boynes Ministries, herself called out by God, came out of homosexuality, came out of long-term lesbian relations and has been following Jesus ablaze for the Lord for many years and felt burdened to help others who are struggling. So we want to talk about this documentary and we want to separate fact from fiction. So without further ado, Janet, great to have you back on The Law and the Fire, thanks for joining us. Hi Dr. Brown, it's been a while. Yeah, but we did get to minister together, was it in June I think, right? It was in June, thank you.

In Texas, great. So Janet, first tell us about this documentary, why it's important to address this and what were some of the fundamental misconceptions in the documentary? You know, first, thank you for having me on once again. Just think about the title, Pray Away. I remember back in 2013, I was a part of a Pray the Gay Away on Our America with Lisa Lane, which was another misrepresentation, you know, of prayer. And if that was the case, if I could pray the gay away or if somebody that is living a homosexual life could pray the gay away, then I would just send everybody home.

Counselor would just send them home and say, hey, just go pray and it'll just go away. And that's so misleading, just the title in and of itself, you know? So it's misleading in a way where, you know, they make fun of those of us who have come out of life a homosexuality and say, yeah, they think that they can just go and pray away the gay. And that's not true.

You know, people are being so misled, it's not even funny. So just to start there, in other words, this is not our term. This is not our conviction, our practice. We have Pray Away the Gay meetings and we advertise that. This is what critics and others have put on us when we tell people through Jesus, through the gospel, through Godly counsel, you can be set free, you can live a new life. So that gets mocked as Pray Away the Gay. And then we are put in this class, this is what we do. Just come to our meeting, Lord, bless them, get rid of this bad homosexual stuff, in Jesus' name, amen.

Now go and live a straight life. Obviously, that's not what we believe or how we do it, but this is the way it's being portrayed and people think that's what we do. It's almost like they're saying, sin is a sin. They're saying, sin is now considered righteous. You know, righteous isn't based on, you know, your feelings.

It is not based on that. You know, righteousness is the quality of being right and doing what is right in the eyes of God. And that's what I want people to know is that, no, you can't just pray anything away. Do we pray for people? Absolutely.

Do we believe by faith? Absolutely. But you still got to walk this thing out. You still got to go through the process. You still got to deny your flesh. You still need to read the Word. You still need to communicate. You still need to walk away from the old relationships and build new relationships. These are a lot of the things that we need to do in order to walk uprightly with God.

Is it easy? No, it's not. But when you sit and watch the movie, you have Randy Thomas, you have Michael Bussey, who is one of the leaders of Exodus.

When they first came out, you had John Polk, who, of course, was married to a good friend of ours, Ann Polk. And, you know, our heart goes out to her to even have to deal with this, you know, misconception in the life that they're telling. And what they're doing here is saying, look, it didn't work for me. Well, why didn't it work for them, Dr. Michael Brown? It didn't work for them because I feel as though, with the Word of God, that they were drawn away by their own lustful desires. They choose to think with something else instead of with the Word of God. You know, they didn't deal with the issues at hand.

You know, they didn't get to the root cause of what got them there in the first place. So Michael Bussey, in and of itself, if you really think about back in the day when Exodus first started, he didn't even stay with Exodus that long. He wind up getting into a relationship with someone and said, oh, okay, it doesn't work for me. Well, you didn't even give it a chance. As soon as you got saved, you pretty much walked away from your faith.

And so now, go ahead, Dr. Michael Brown. Yeah, so just to say this, it's almost like a guy and a gal get married, they're both believers, they commit themselves to follow the Lord and to love one another till death do us part, right? Whether things go well or not. And their marriage is really just not clicking well. And they're not really sexually compatible. And the guy meets some other gal and has this intense romantic attraction for she's not even a believer, and ends up having an affair with her. And says, Hey, this marriage thing didn't work for me.

Well, no, no, no, that's not how it works. You made a lifelong commitment. It's about obedience.

So that's the first thing. In other words, if someone is going to claim to be following Jesus, and then walk away from a marriage for no reason, or walk away from sexual purity for no reason, just because they're tempted, or it's not working, or I'm frustrated, or it doesn't go like that you deny yourself, take up the cross, follow Jesus, that applies to everybody. Nobody gets an exemption from that. Everybody and and and upon our salvation, Dr. Brown, God never said you wouldn't be tempted, you wouldn't have thoughts, you would have desires. But he said, you know what, I will never give you anything you can handle. I will always give you a way to escape God is always walking by our side side. And the sad thing is that when I came to Christ, I didn't go to God and say, Oh, change me. Oh, God, make me heterosexual. You know, oh, God, I want to be heterosexual. I was born heterosexual.

I was born as female. Where my heart was when I went to counseling, and I pray is I just wanted to walk uprightly with God. God, I'm going to obey your word, God, I'm going to pray, God, I'm going to reach out to people when I'm struggling so they can pray with me and walk by my side with me.

And so dealing with this issue at hand, which I can say Randy Thomas, Michael Buss and John Paul, let's throw Allen Chambers into the mix as well, you know, they chose to walk away from their faith. And now what they're trying to do is discredit those of us who are now walking and have been walking. I've been walking with God for over 20 years now.

I've been having that life for 20 years. Don't tell me it doesn't work. I have an issue with that. Just because you chose to follow your flesh and walk away from your faith. Now you want to drag many men and women with you and then say, oh, they're there with reparative therapy, something that hasn't been used or nobody that I know uses reparative therapy. They're using that to try to discredit us and to silence us. And the sad thing is, not only the church, but many people on the left has taken up that reparative therapy, and they ran with it because they want to shut us down.

They want to silence them. And this is why we have so many young people that want to commit suicide. That's where the confusion comes in. We're not the author of confusion, but they are. All right, so we'll come back to the youth suicide issue, something that should concern everyone that has a heart of compassion for those that are struggling.

So we want to come back to that. But are you saying, Janet, that there is also the misconception, not just to pray away the gay, but this so-called conversion therapy or reparative therapy that basically that what we do, those of us who say that change is possible. So I've been an advocate as someone just standing for righteousness that I can't identify with being homosexual, but I reach out to those that struggle because I know what God's word says and what righteousness says. So are you saying that the accusation is that those who try to help others who are struggling, people like you, people like counselors, like the late Joseph Nicolosi or others like that, or Joe Dallas, the counseling and helping, that they practice these barbaric things, that they basically use shock therapy on people or kidnap young people and lock them in camps to make them become straight? Is this the impression that's given that this actually happens? Exactly. You couldn't have said it better. That's what they want the world to believe that we're shocking people because when they interview many men and women, hear me everybody out there, that walked away from their faith that says that it doesn't work, that's what they come up with as an excuse to continue to live in their sin. Joe Dallas or myself or Dr. Nicolosi, none of us do anything or have anything to do with shock therapy, and if we did, we would call these people out.

Nobody goes and hits anybody or throw them in a closet or blindfold them or beat them or smack their hands or smack their face or anything like that. We wanted people to know that change is possible through the power of Jesus Christ. You can walk this thing out. Hey, none of us can do this alone, but we know with God all things are possible, and if you're not walking this thing out, it doesn't mean that you can't get back on track. It doesn't mean that we're not here to help you, but don't listen to the lie of those who are continuously living in sin because they chose to walk away from their faith.

They are deceiving you and leading you down the long path, and that's what Satan does in these last days. These are perilous times, Dr. Brown. Yeah, we are living in challenging times, obviously, especially challenging in many ways, and I want to pick up on the other side of the break with a few things that Janet has said. I want to talk about a little bit more the possibility of change.

I want to go back to the youth suicide question with my guest Janet Boynes and let folks know where they can reach Janet, her ministry, what resources she has, books, and other things that are available, but here's the key thing. If any of us in any area of our lives have the notion that if we think one wrong thought or have one wrong desire, then God is not real in our lives. Can you imagine the torment you'd live with?

Can you imagine how quickly you'd think, oh, this is not working? Rather, God changes us on the inside, and then by His grace we walk this out, and in every area of life, whatever it is, you have some ups, you have some downs. What we experience is the grace of God carrying you, strengthening you, enabling you to run your race, and you're blessed in the process. It's the Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. I'm speaking with my friend, Janet Boynes. You can find out more about her ministry. Janet, where do they go to connect with you? Yeah, thank you, Dr. Brown.

www.janetboynes.com. All right, and what resources would you recommend first to someone who's struggling? They say, look, I want to follow Jesus, but this is all I've known. I've just been attracted to the same sex, or I don't know how to deal with that, or maybe a family member or friend. What have you written or put out that you would recommend to them? My first book, To Those That Struggle, I would highly recommend called out, A Former Lesbian Discovery of Freedom. That book has been phenomenal to many people. You have my story in there. You have 50 if you're going to ask questions.

You have fighting addictions. I talk about I was almost married, how to pray. That one would be wonderful, especially for a family member too. They can see the process that I went through, not only how I got into life, but how the Lord walked me through the process of coming out. The other book I think is really important to pastors, ministry leaders, parents, anybody who has a loved one or a friend that's struggling with homosexuality. I wrote a book about three years ago, God and Sexuality, Truth and Relevance Without Compromise, which you wrote the forward on. Now, that book and the newest book that just came out in July, got in the LGBT community are the same book. What the publisher did was change the cover. They really liked this book.

They wanted to reintroduce it, but the new book got in the LGBT community has a study guide. We wrote this book to help families have a better understanding on how do we deal with this issue? Janet, my son or my daughter is going to have a civil union, which the world calls marriage. I don't call it a marriage. I call it a civil union.

It does marriages between a man and woman. How do we deal with that? Do we go? Do we send a gift? How do we pray?

How do we as pastors deal with this in the church? We address all these issues in the book. Good. Excellent.

So friends, all the info at janetboynesministries.org. Okay..com. I knew if I said it wrong, you'd correct me, then people would really remember it. I was debating it as I was saying it. Okay. All right. So I'm just looking at some headlines.

Oh, let's see. This one from NBC News. Nearly a third of young gay people have attempted suicide study fines. And then I'm looking at this one, Guardian. The new record is estimated 18 million Americans identify as LGBTQ poll fines.

And then Forbes. Terrible time for trans youth. New survey spotlights, suicide attempts, and hope.

So we're getting hit with two things, Janet. One is, hey, look, now that there's openness in our society, more and more young people are identifying as gay or trans or bi, so we just have to accept it. And because society is so negative, because of people like you and me in the church beating people over the head with our Bibles, they're suicidal, they feel rejected, their families are putting them out. So the only right thing to do, the compassionate thing, surely the Christ-like thing to do, is to say, we affirm you as gay, we affirm you as trans, we affirm you as bi, and then that'll get rid of the suicide, that'll get rid of the depression, and they can live healthy, well-adjusted lives if we just give up our bigotry and homophobia and transphobia.

What do you differ with that take? You know, this is heartbreaking for me, and that's why I thought it was really important to talk about, because in the last year and over the pandemic, we've gotten more calls and emails of our millennials and our Gen Zs not only wanting to commit suicide, but to transition. And I want them to know that God is calling each and every one of us unto himself. You know, there is a purpose for each and every person out there, but I'm hearing that there is more ex-Christians going into the homosexual life than there are Christians that are coming out of this life. When you think about the Gallup poll that you just mentioned, from 2012 to 2020, men and women who are identifying as homosexual, do you know who's leading that pack? It's the Gen Z. That's 60%.

60% of the Gen Zs are leading the pack, being lied to and going into that life of homosexuality. When you talk about suicide, if you're so happy, if they're so happy and living that life, why do you want to commit suicide? Why do you want to die? Christ already paid the price.

You don't have to pay that price. There's redemption for each and every one of us. And I want people to know, Dr. Michael Brown, that we do love them. And that's why we want to stand up for righteousness, right-standing with God. That's why we're coming alongside of them, because we don't want them to commit suicide.

We want to get them the best out that we can so they can see and walk in the freedom that many of us have already experienced. Yeah, and Janet, if a young person feels, okay, my church is going to reject me, my family is going to think I'm like subhuman, I'm an abomination, I could never have a meaningful relationship if I do this God thing, I could understand the depression, the fear. What we need to do is say, hey, we love you, we absolutely put our arms around you as family, as friends, as church, as community. And if we can really introduce you to Jesus, your life is going to make sense.

Outside of Jesus, things are very dark. But in him, and we've all been through it from a thousand, a million, a billion different walks in life, found that in him, he's more than enough. So, Janet, Janet, over your 20 years, I'm sure you've seen people who, by God's grace, have gone from gay to straight, and they're happily married parents, grandparents. You've seen others who've seen a tremendous reduction in homosexual desire. And maybe they've formed a relationship with someone of the opposite sex has been healthy, and others have said, you know, I'm still attracted to the same sex, I just say no to it. And I follow Jesus and my life is overflowing as a single, you've seen the full range, but the universal testimony of all of it is that Jesus is more than enough.

You know what? People can say God is more than enough, and God is enough, but God made us build relationships. What the problem is with the body of Christ is that we have so many people suffering in silence. We have so many churches around the country that will get on the pulpit and say, yeah, you know, homosexuality is wrong, we'll talk about it, but they won't bring somebody in to share their story on how they got into that life, and then how the Lord brought them out, because a lot of people say, yeah, my pastor brings it up, but he's so harsh, or she's so harsh, they're so mean about it, instead of bringing somebody in, like myself, that's compassionate and loving and caring. You know, if not us, then who? It is so important that the church not only promote biblical standards, but also live by the standards they promote. We are not homosexual haters.

At least I'm not, and anybody that I know deals with this issue are not haters. You know what we are, Dr. King? We're kingdom advances. We're going to advance the kingdom of God. We're going to pull them out of the darkness, and we're going to bring them into the light, just like that gay choir in, where was it, the great chorus in California, when they sang that song about we're coming after your children.

Well, you know what? Our children are covered with the blood of Jesus. They can come after their children, but we're going to come after them with the gospel. We're going to love them, because they too will change, and in the end, when we stand before God, we're going to look around, and because that we stayed on track, and because we preached truth and the word of God, we're going to see many people that we didn't think would come to know Jesus.

They're going to be there. I believe that by faith. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, and yes, the church must be the church. You're 100 percent right. When we say Jesus is more than enough, Jesus also works through people, and when we come to know him, he brings us into godly relationships and community. By the way, you would put my name, Dr. Brown, before a statement with kingdom, and I became Dr. King, so just to clarify that, this is not Dr. King here.

It is Dr. Brown, but hey, listen, I get called all kinds of names. I'll take that one. But, you know, I'll say this last thing, and we're out of time, but the whole spike in Generation Z, especially identifying as bisexual, it shows you the amount of confusion that's out, from social media to preschools and schools, education to Hollywood. Kids bombarded constantly, and now you're going through uncertainty already, and maybe I am attracted to both, so the indoctrination is working.

Let's come with gospel-based, love-empowered, spirit-led, holy indoctrination that changes people into the truth, and friends, check out janetboynesministries.com, B-O-Y-N-E-S. If you're struggling, there are people there that want to help you. It's a great place to support, and the books that were mentioned are there. One, I wrote the forward to, my joy to do it. Hey, Janet, keep up the good work. There are so many getting set free and helped by your example and by your team's work. God bless you, Janet. God bless you, too. Thank you.

All right. Hey, friends, tomorrow is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. We'll talk about the enemies of Israel, and then Friday, as always, you've got questions, we've got answers.

Great coming your way from our new studio here in Fort Worth and back to North Carolina on Friday. May the grace and favor of God be yours in abundance. Let me say this in the closing seconds of the broadcast. If you missed the first half of today's show, we talked about leftist lies against abortion, how things are misrepresented, rather than really dealing with the reality of the humanity of the baby in the womb. It's the same thing with leftist lies against homosexuality. Yes, many people feel they were born this way. Yes, many people have tried to change and found they were unable to. There's nothing to do with what God says is right and wrong.

It has nothing to do with how God ultimately made us, and there's nothing to do with the fact that Jesus really does save and change and transform whoever you are, wherever you are. If you cry out to Him with all your heart, He will meet you and He will help you. God bless, friends. Back with you tomorrow.