When America Lost Its Mind

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Friends, there was a time when medical science in America thought that lobotomies, basically driving spikes into people's brains, that this was the great cure, the miracle cure for mental illness. And we look back at that with shock. There have been other great developments, advances in medical science that, whoa, looking back, they were not advances or developments at all. They were dangerous practices. What's happened today is a step further. What's happened today is a step worse. What's happened today is further and worse in that fundamental truths are being denied. We're not talking about wrong practices, regrettable practices, but fundamental truths are being denied based on which there are very wrong practices.

This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the broadcast 866-34-TRUTH, 866348 7884. I just wrote an article. It's up on stream.org.

It's up on other websites on our website, AskDrBrown.org. We were here when medical science lost its mind. We were here when medical science lost its mind. Friends, I want you to remember today's broadcast. I want you to remember the things that I'm talking about.

I want you to archive this. There is a reason we have been shouting out as loudly as we can about where things are going wrong in society, the current trajectory, this societal madness. While we care for everyone who's struggling, while we care for those who struggle with gender identity issues, while we care for those who struggle being at home in their own body, we do not change reality based on that. But things are continuing to go to the point of such absurdity that either our society will crash and burn and self-destruct or we will look back in the future.

Hopefully, God helping, in the not too distant future and be able to tell another generation, you know, we were here. We were here when scientists were saying these crazy things. We were here when the medical profession lost its mind. Hey, look at this headline. Just check this out. New York Post headline.

I could have picked others, but look at this. Harvard lecturer, blast this, July 31st. Harvard lecturer blasted by colleague for defending existence of biological sex.

Let me read that once more. Harvard lecturer blasted by colleague for defending existence of biological sex. Now, look, friends, this is not some satire headline. This is not some mockery.

This is reality in our world today. That fundamental realities like biological sex, sex differences, are being denied. Listen to the Harvard lecturer in question. This is Carol Hovind on Fox.

Check this out. Some medical schools now reportedly denying biological sex altogether. One med student in California claiming her classmates shame and police her, professors for quote, wrong speak, for using words like pregnant women, hold your ears, male and female, during lectures. But what happens when woke ideology undermines future doctors? Carol Hovind is a lecturer at Harvard and the author of T, The Story of Testosterone, the Hormone That Dominates and Divides Us.

She joins us now. I think this is an incredibly important issue, and it's one I've been feeling pretty frustrated about. And I would say that's over the last five years or so, I've noticed a change. It's been gradual, but this kind of ideology has been infiltrating science.

It's infiltrating my classroom to some extent. I teach about hormones and behavior. I teach about sex and sex differences. And that's something I've always been really enthusiastic about, is the science of sex and sex differences.

And part of that science is teaching the facts. And the facts are that there are in fact two sexes. There are male and female, and those sexes are designated by the kind of gametes we produce. Like, do we make eggs, you know, big sex cells or little sex cells, sperm? And that's how we know whether somebody is male or female. There are in fact about 6,000 different genetic markers that distinguish male from female.

But please hear me. In my 2011 book, A Queer Thing Happened to America, which was the result of six or seven years of research and prayer and interaction and consideration and writing, the last chapter was GLBT and beyond. It's before the L shifted in front of the G more officially, basically saying, what's coming next?

Where is this going? So we documented these types of things, the denial of biological realities. In fact, I found quotes going back to the 60s, even before 1968, from Francis Schaeffer, the philosopher, talking about the gay agenda, the homosexual agenda, and where it would ultimately bring about an ultimate war on gender distinctions themselves.

These are things we laid out, others laid out decades before us. This is no surprise. The societal madness is no surprise.

The trashing of biological realities is no surprise. Look, people are being penalized today for saying, no, no, men can't menstruate. No, men can conceive and carry babies and deliver babies. No, men can't do it. Oh, that's bigoted.

That's transphobic. How can you dare say that? I mean, that's where we're at today. Now, think of this.

Think of this. The foundation of all foundations of truth is the eternal existence of God. So of course, the wave of new atheism starting about 16, 17 years ago, really in the aftermath of 9-11, so almost 20 years now, that this has been growing and intensifying the attack on the very existence of God. And then the next great foundation is that God created the human race. God created the entire human race.

All right, that's the next great foundation. So created the world, created the universe, created the human race. So the attack on God as creator.

And then what's the next thing? The pinnacle of creation, human beings, what happens here? Male and female, he created them. So there's an attack on the existence of God. There's an attack on God as the creator.

And there's an attack on the foundation of human existence and that he created us male and female. So for simply saying, using terms like male and female, or saying, no, pregnant women, not pregnant people, pregnant women, because only a woman can conceive and be pregnant. For saying things like this, this woman has come under attack.

And it's not isolated. You're talking about colleagues at Harvard or others or PhD students, others saying, no, this is just wrong. This is wrong speak. Hey, look at this tweet. Look at this tweet as one example from Laura Simone Lewis. As the director of the diversity and inclusion task force for my department at Harvard, I am appalled, get this friends, I am appalled and frustrated by the transphobic and harmful remarks made by a member of my department in this interview with Fox and Friends.

Did you get that? She is appalled and frustrated by transphobic and harmful remarks. What are the quote transphobic and harmful remarks? That you have categories male and female, that women get pregnant, not men.

This is considered harmful and transphobic. Friends, listen, we were here when this was happening. By God's grace, we get to tell future generations here. We were here when society lost its mind. We were here when people were penalized for talking about the difference between men and women. We were here when it was considered insulting to say that a man can't conceive.

You say, well, who would argue with that? Well, because if you're a woman who identifies as a man, now you're a real man and therefore you can conceive and have children. There is a tragic case of an obese man rushed into the hospital with terrible abdominal pains. It was only after a while that the hospital realized this was not an obese man. This was a pregnant woman.

But she identified as a man and because of that, lost the baby. Okay, how about this? How about this tweet? WebMD.

Sex should be removed as a legal designation on the public part of birth certificates, the American Medical Association said Monday. Now, by the way, this tweet just was posted a couple days ago. The article it cites goes back to June on the WebMD website.

But this is a recent tweet. Sex should be removed as a legal designation on the public part of birth certificates. So you click on the link on WebMD. WebMD is not criticizing this.

WebMD is reporting this. And listen to what the article says. Remove sex from public birth certificates, AMA says.

So June 16th is the date of the article. Sex should be removed as a legal designation on the public part of birth certificates, the AMA said Monday. Requiring it can lead to discrimination and unnecessary burden on individuals whose current gender identity does not align with their designation at birth, namely when they register for school or sports, adopt, get married, or request personal records, et cetera.

So just eliminate this from the birth certificate, your actual biological sex, because that might make you uncomfortable in certain situations if you identify differently. So all that matters is how you feel. I'm not demeaning the agony that many people have gone through identify as trans. I am not denying the pain that they have experienced.

I am simply saying that you cannot deny reality. And now what wrong practices come out of this? Friends, we live to see this, this happening on our watch. 17, 18 year old girls who've had full mastectomies because they identify as males.

Only a few years later to say, what in the world did I do? Doctors, I mean, this is by the thousands, prescribing hormone blockers for little children, maybe 10 years old to stop the onset of puberty. We're here when this happened. And now biological men competing in the Olympics against biological women. Look at this headline on the Daily Mail.

This is what's really interesting. Dr. Joanna Harper, who's been an advocate for men who identify as women, so trans women participating in Olympic sports. Olympic advisor on trans athletes says history may judge it less than ideal that transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard is allowed to compete at Tokyo 2020.

Thankfully Hubbard bombed out, didn't win, but still pushed someone off the team from New Zealand because of this. There's a 43 year old man who used to lift weights as a man. Now, quote, transition to woman. Dr. Joanna Harper spoke to Radio 4 about Laurel Harvard's Olympic debut. Dr. Harper, who herself transitioned, ah, isn't that interesting, has raised doubts about the participation. So it said, ah, weightlifting may not be the right sport, may not really be equal there.

And this is the person helping to make this decision, someone who himself transitioned to female, according to this story. Friends, we were here. We were here watching this madness take place. The question is, are we going to help turn the tide and restore and restore sanity to America? By God's grace, I say the answer is yes. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. So why do I say I told you so? Is it to gloat? Is it to say, ah, I knew? Why would I do that?

We're not a bunch of babies here. The reason I'm saying I told you so is just in case you have downplayed the seriousness of this, just in case you are still not seeing where this goes and where this ends, I'm saying, hey, friends, we've been shouting out these warnings for a long time. Please do take this seriously and let us be on the alert because this could well be coming right into your own home and family. 866-344-TRUTH. In fact, in fact, I want to open up the phone lines. If you have dealt with a trans-related issue in your family, in your congregation, if suddenly you're running into kids that are identifying as trapped in their own body, they never have before.

There's not been some history since they were three or four or five or something like that. Even if you want to call in anonymously, I'd love to hear from you here. I was speaking online to several dozen pastors.

A regional leader asked if I would come online, talk about some of these issues through like a Zoom conference a few months ago, and then at the end, doing Q&A, interacting with folks. One of the pastors said, and I've shared this on the air before, but it was so striking. He said, in our church, the kids in middle school all got caught up with transgender talking points.

They basically embraced all the stuff about a lot of people are trapped in their own body and all the standard talking points. Middle school kids, so what are they, 11, 12, 13 years old? In his church. The kids together ended up embracing these things. Where did they get them from?

Mainly social media, mainly media, other peers, different ways. Don't know. He said they then watched the documentary that American Family Studios did that I had the privilege of hosting In His Image. If you've not watched it, you really should. It will bless you. I found it tremendously informative. The interviews, the insights, inhisimage.movie, inhisimage.movie, or if you'd rather just watch it on YouTube, just type in In His Image movie and you'll see it. It's maybe an hour, 45 minutes, or longer.

It's full. It's excellent. He said they then watched that movie and they shifted back, especially based on the testimonies and the personal stories. That shifted them and they embraced truth again. I was doing an interview for Dr. Frank Turek, my colleague in apologetics, my friend, a couple weeks back. He said he had just spoken at a church where about half of the young people were now using the different pronouns for one another and things like that.

This is in a church setting. I have another friend of the family, lives outside of the United States. She contacts us, oh maybe a year, go a little bit longer than that, and she says we're having a crisis with our daughter. She's, for the first time, maybe he's 15 years old, suddenly saying she really believes she's a boy. The mother said there was never any hint of this, never any issue of it. She very much identifies the girl.

The mom and daughter had good relations. Mildly autistic. I mention that because this is increasingly common among autistic teenage girls. Read about rapid onset gender dysphoria.

Read about parents that are shouting out their own situations that they've lived with with their own kids, their own daughters. There are even whole groups of girls that are together saying, yeah, we're really boys trapped in the wrong body. And a lot of what happens, and especially with autism, and I'm no medical expert, understand this, I'm simply repeating things that I've heard widely from experts. We know number one, that teens go through all types of emotional upheaval and who am I really, etc. Then a lot of teenage girls very much not at home in their body, why don't I look like others, why am I like this, why am I like that?

And then with autism can heighten some discomfort and various struggles. And now you're told all the whole issue is you're trans, that's the whole thing, you're trans. And as Abigail Schreyers has documented in her book Irreparable Damage, a book that a major book organization has banned now and we're not going to distribute that anymore, and Amazon would not allow advertising for the book on their website, although they continue to sell it. They completely banned Ryan Anderson's When Harry Became Sally, an excellent important book. They banned that.

They banned advertising for her book. Now you're having this epidemic of girls making lifelong decisions as teenagers going through hormonal and emotional changes. And now they're 19, 20, 21, 22, and they're saying, what in the world did I do? What in the world did I do?

What in the world did I do? And we are watching these things happen. Friends, that's why I've been sounding the alarm.

That's why others were sounding the alarm long before me. That's we're saying this is where it's going, friends. So coming to a church near you, coming to a family near you, back to this gal that contacted us, longtime friend of our family. She begins interacting with her daughter, begins to find out how her daughter's feeling, what she's struggling with, and realizes that these struggles have only started when she started going to a particular school that she's in, the high school that she's been in, I don't know, maybe the last year or two before that. So the parents decide that they want to meet with faculty administrators at the school to discuss their daughter's situation, to find out to their absolute shock.

Hear me, friends, I'm not making up a syllable here, not exaggerating, misreporting a syllable. To their absolute shock, they learned that if they had not happened to meet with the faculty and their administration at that school that night, the next day, or that day, the next day, they were planning to announce to the school that their daughter was now a boy, and here's the name to use. Seriously, they were shocked. The school was going to do this without telling the parents, without informing the parents.

It happened outside of America, but these kinds of things happen inside America. This is the outrage, friends. This is the reason why we're so grieved. This is the reason why we must sound the alarm, and ultimately it is an attack on human beings being created in the image of God, male, female. You say, but what about those who are intersex? What about those who have a chromosomal or biological abnormality? That's what it is. They deserve our compassion like anyone else with a disability or a handicap or an abnormality of some kind, but that doesn't change the fact that they're only two biological sexes.

That is the reality. Then you have those that don't fit neatly near those categories because of something they were born with, something that developed as they were growing up that we were born with, only found out later. These are very delicate, difficult situations that may affect you one in a hundred people, and it's shameful. How do you deal with it? How do you sort these things out?

How do parents deal with it? These are all very important, very valid questions, but it doesn't change the fact they're only two biological sexes. All right, to the phones, 866-34-TRUTH, let's go to Shauna in Texas. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, how's it going? Going well, thank you, Shauna. So I can give you a little background on me. I left the LGBTQ community recently. I was a lesbian, and now I'm just a celibate Christian. I left a 15-year relationship, actually. But anyways, so my experience as a child... Shauna, do you mind if I just ask you a question first? Is that okay?

Sure, yeah. I know this may be getting ahead of things, but was there anything in particular that caused you to make this break after 15 years? About three, and this was recent, like two months ago where I left it, but about three years ago, I guess, I felt compelled. I prayed a lot. I basically told God, like, I can't make this decision on my own.

Like, I personally don't know what the right thing to do is. Like, you just kind of pull me out of it if it's not the right thing, and that's basically what he did. He pulled me out. He didn't give me the option of staying, and I knew it was an answered prayer. After that, I was really severely depressed. Obviously, it was a 15-year relationship, so I was upset, suicidal, and I prayed for God to take that away, and He did.

He took it away. You know, I didn't go on pills or anything like that, just take it away. He just continuously has been answering my prayers, you know. I joined a church, getting counseling, stuff like that, but, you know, as a child, I also was compelled by God, as a very young child, that, and I don't want to sound crazy, but I felt I was going to see the end times as an adult. Like, I always felt like, I'm not going to get old. I'm going to see the end time. Don't ask me why I felt like that, but I just did.

Well, you're one of many, Shauna. It's not that odd. You read the Bible, you hear about prophecies, and you have that deep feeling. Yeah, understandable.

Yeah, go ahead. And when I was praying for God to pull me out if it's the right thing to do, that was another thing that was on my heart. He was telling me about three years ago, it's coming soon.

You need to, you know, you have, I'm giving you this warning, and then now he's, like, telling me everything is very urgent. I need to tell people about this, and I need to encourage people to tell the truth, and I was in the live chat talking about this earlier, tell the truth in love. So, in other words, if you're going out to protest a pride parade, that's probably not going to work, because a lot of times it's just you yelling at them, and they're not going to hear you.

They're going to get defensive and block it out. Yep. You have to be kind to people and befriend them, and tell them. Hey, Shauna, stay right there. We've got a break. Stay right there. Please don't go anywhere. I want to talk to you on the other side of the break. What you're saying needs to be heard, and I've got a bunch of questions to ask as well. Friends, we'll be right back.

Again, is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on the Line of Fire. I'm speaking with Shauna from Texas. As a child, I felt that the Lord showed her that she wouldn't grow old, that she would live to see the return of Jesus, the end times. She ended up in a lesbian lifestyle, lesbian relationship for a 15-year period. She really sought the Lord about three years ago, asking if she was doing the wrong thing, that God would deal with her, that He has brought her out of that relationship. Several months ago, she broke it off, struggling with depression. After that, God helped her without need for pills. She's now in a church, getting counsel, moving forward, and feels an urgency to tell the church we've got to speak the truth and love.

Shauna, thanks so much for calling and feeling the urgency to tell your story. And obviously, the biggest thing is just getting your own feet down strongly in the Lord, being in a church, getting that counsel, just growing one step at a time, not that you have to put on some performance or show or anything or be on display, just a matter of, okay, God brought me out, now He's moving me forward. Did you feel the whole time that you were in this relationship that you were a Christian? Well, I believe I was. I got saved when I was a teenager and I was baptized, but I kind of just fell away. Okay. And I sort of, as time went on, I was sort of like trying to be an atheist.

Got it. But in all honesty, I felt deep down inside that God was truly telling me, telling me, like, look, I gave you this ability, this foresight to understand that you're going to see the end time, and I'm not going to let you fully go. Like, the Bible prophecy part was keeping me sort of connected to it, and what He's telling me now is, or He's putting it on my heart, is essentially that we don't have much time left. And so, you know, if you have loved ones who are LGBT, you know, you have to be, you have to approach the situation, but only do it in love. Like, there's people that will literally kick their kids out of their house and yell at them and are hateful.

I mean, it's literally like, why would you want to join anyone that behaves that way? Right, absolutely. And so, you know, I just, that's something I feel called to help people with. And Shauna, when did you first feel that you were attracted to the same sex? Oh, since I was a little child.

Great. The way I describe it to people is, you know, a lot of people who aren't gay or aren't same-sex attracted, a lot of them will say, you choose to be gay, right? I did not choose to be gay.

I've prayed so long as a child to take it away from me, and it never went away. I think because we are in a fallen state, that it's very much possible that that can be a natural process that you get to. It's just a matter of realizing that it is wrong, and you have to go against your own nature, in a way.

Right. And I do believe that God can give you attraction to the opposite sex and heal you, but not everyone is going to have that happen. Some people are just going to have to live a celibate life, which is really hard, and it's a lot to ask of a person. And that's another reason why you should approach the situation in love, because you're telling that person who can't become straight, you need to be alone the rest of your life. You know, you have to be compassionate when you approach the situation.

Yeah, absolutely. So here, you're saying with so many others, the vast majority of those who identify as gay and lesbian would say, as far back as I can remember, this is how I felt, or my earliest romantic or sexual feelings, or I always felt different, etc. You know, one of the most outspoken advocates of gay Christianity, Dr. Mel White, has always told his story.

Well, you know, in the high school football games, while my friends were attracted to the cheerleaders, I was attracted to the quarterback. And it's obviously that, you know, and then as a Christian, you think, how can this be? And you cry out and you pray. One pastor friend of mine said, look, every kid who identifies as gay or lesbian and was raised in a Christian home and is a teenager, that kid's had an unanswered prayer, because you're all going to pray the same way.

God, take this away, change me. And then when he doesn't, you either think he's not there, or he must hate me, or maybe I'm reading the Bible wrong, maybe this is really okay, and go through these various situations. But obviously, in your case, God kept working in your life. And you're absolutely right. Friends, please hear what Sean is saying. You're telling me you're going to share the gospel with an 18-year-old guy, and all he's ever known is same-sex attraction as long as he's been conscious of his feelings. And you tell him now he's going to follow Jesus, which either means he has to become heterosexual, which to him is another impossibility and almost repulsive, or stay single the rest of his life, never have a romantic relationship, let alone not have sex, but never have a romantic relationship the rest of his life, and just take it on the chin, man. That's the truth.

That's the good news. Obviously, what we have to say is we've all sinned. We all have to come saying, God, I've sinned and blown it. Forgive me, and I give my whole life to whatever that means. And Jesus, you've got to be enough for me. I mean, that's where you have to start. And yes, you're right.

Many do change. I know many who have generally gone from homosexual to heterosexual, others who've had a massive diminishing in homosexual attraction and like a faint heterosexual attraction enough to grow into a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, and others who say, hey, I'm same-sex attracted, but I say no to it. It's not of God. It's not right. I say no to it. And God's more than enough. But, Sean, if you could say anything else, let's say to a parent right now, and their 14-year-old daughter comes out and says, Mom, Dad, I'm a lesbian.

I just want you to know this. What should they do? Let's say it's a Christian home. What do they do? How do they respond? Well, I had a few responses.

So I can give you some examples of what not to do and some that you should do. One, I had someone tell me, oh, you're going to burn in hell now. Like, basically, you're just going to burn in hell. Like, that is not... Like, if someone came to you and said, you know, I'm really struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts, which is, you know, horrible, if you approach them and was like, oh, you're going to go to hell if you do that. Like, that's not really the right response. So one thing, if you don't understand it, you need to research it. Please research it. You know, there's, I think there's a book called Gay Girl Good God or something like that.

And the author, I can't remember her name, but she's really good. If you have this situation, please get educated and on it before you attack and say, hey, you're going to burn in hell. Like, everyone is without God. Like, you know, don't kick them out. Don't turn your back on them. Don't act differently towards them. Don't act like they have some kind of disease because I had people do that to me as well.

And it was pretty horrible. In fact, the people who reacted poorly to me are still not really in my life because they made me feel so horribly about myself that I feel uncomfortable around them now. Now, I forgive them, but they're just not present in my life anymore.

Yeah. The people who stood by me, they said, look, I don't agree with it. And I think it's a sin and you know how I feel about it, but I love you. I'll never turn my back on you.

I'm always here for you, whatever you need. Essentially, you don't get to decide if someone gets saved or not. You can only tell them the truth, you know, and if they reject the truth. But the thing is, if you at some point down the line as a gay person are like, I wonder if I'm really right or I'm really wrong. And you remember how your relative treated you that was doing the right thing. You will go back to that person. Yeah.

You know, I did the same thing. When I, the way I was treated in a good way, I went back to those people and I remember how they treated me and I, you know, they encouraged me and they're there for me. And that's another thing with the church. You know, when someone like me comes into the church, they need connections because they're going to lose not only the people they were in a relationship with, but a lot of their friends because a lot of their friends are LGBT. They need connections. So it's really important for people who just go to church on Sunday, sit in a queue and then go home. They need to reach out and make connections, invite them over, befriend them, go to events together. Because again, a lot of these people are alone and they need that. Well, I'm just sitting here thrilled thinking it's as if you've been ministering in this way for decades.

I mean, the wisdom of what you're saying, the importance of what you're saying. I heard from a friend of a friend. This was a couple that the man and his wife had both come out of homosexuality and now they were happily married and they were ministering to gays in New York.

And they said that they heard more than once from someone who came out of homosexuality, got saved, was going to church and then fell away and said, I had more fellowship in the gay bar than I did sitting in a church building looking at the back of somebody's head in a church service. So building relationships and for parents, yeah, that's your kid. It's still your kid. And parents, when you're thinking how difficult it is for your kid to come out and say what they say, and they're not telling you, I hate God, I'm going to be a champion of rebellion, I hate you. They're just telling you this is going on in my life and you need to know. And the last thing they need is rejection, hatred, condemnation. And parents, trust me, they know how you feel. They know your beliefs. You tell them once, just like just like Shauna said, you know how we feel, you know, we believe that to act on this is sinful, but you're a child, you're a friend. You're, I was in Singapore, Shauna, with maybe five or six thousand folks at a big meeting and we're having a young people session. And I said, okay, so your best friend, you're, you know, 15 year old guys and your best friend says, hey, I got to tell you something really heavy.

I mean, it's really heavy. You sit down, you're Christian kids and the kid says, I'm gay. How do you respond?

I said, the response is, I thought you had something heavy to tell me. You're my friend. Let's diffuse the whole thing or you struggle with same-sex attraction. Okay, you're my friend.

You want to serve the Lord? Let's be friends. Let's work on this together. And yes, get educated.

Please get educated. Shauna, I'm so glad you took the time to call and share this. I have one more comment on the trans side of it.

Yep, go ahead. Not to interrupt you, but as someone who was very much a tomboy growing up in a generation where I didn't even know transgender existed, I can almost guarantee you if I had seen the enormous amount of YouTube videos about becoming transgender, I would have probably considered it because I was such a tomboy. I love to play with the boys. I'm a hundred percent a woman. Like I'm not confused about my gender at all, but I can almost guarantee you I would have at least questioned it back, you know, if it had been this way. There's a lot of tomboys and a lot of lesbians like butch women who are becoming transgender because they feel like that's what they are because because it's stereotypical. Stereotypical, right. And it's what it's out there so much, Shauna. It's an epidemic of this.

And I've heard the exact same thing from heterosexual women and for those who are lesbian saying, if this had been in my day, I would have said, I'm trans. It's The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us, 866-34-TRUTH. There are so many people like Shauna out there right now. Some of you are listening to me. We've heard from you over the years. We've gotten the incredibly touching emails.

We've gotten the calls like this. I've met some of you face to face. I remember being overseas, I'll just say in Asia, one time I had I had received a note on YouTube from a woman said she'd been in a lesbian relationship for years, was struggling, was seeking God and what was right, what was wrong.

She was confused. She came across some video interviews I was involved with and she found truth but full of compassion. And trust me, the compassion is because the Lord gave me compassion. It's not because I've had a history over the decades of ministering to those who are LGBT or that I can relate to the struggles myself because I can't. That's not my background. Plenty of other things I've been through I can relate to.

This I can't personally in terms of never lived through homosexual attraction, never lived through gender confusion. So it was much time reading, praying, listening, asking God for his heart that that real deep compassion has risen up in me over these many years now. And anyway I'd gotten some very gracious notes from this this young woman and then I was in her home country in Asia.

She heard I was going to be there. She came to the meeting, introduced herself, and gave me a letter. I was just thinking about this letter probably within the last week. Where is it because I saved it.

I just have to figure out where and what box of letters it saved. But it was one of the most Jesus glorifying, precious, sensitive, truth-filled letters I had ever received in my life. And you know the type that if that's the only life you touch it's worth it when you read the story and hear all this. So as much as we hear denial no one ever changes or you can't be happy as a Christian if you're if you're really gay and so on. This is the gospel friends. This is the power of the gospel. Grace and truth together. Not grace or truth but grace and truth together. There is no conflict between perfect truth and perfect love because perfect love is based on truth and perfect truth is moved by love.

They go hand in hand. Jesus is filled with grace and truth and so also should we be filled with grace and truth. And you say it's just not in me. Well lean on him. Drink in his word. Take in his truth as it is written.

Take it in and ask him to sensitize your heart. Hey listen friends. When American Friendly Studios contacted me asking me to host their documentary In His Image. Again if you've not watched that it's free.

Go to inhisimage.movie inhisimage.movie or on YouTube inhisimagemovie about an hour 45 minutes long something like that. You'll find it rich, amazing interviews, amazing content, wonderful testimonies. But when they reached out to me as their first choice and candidly I didn't pray whether I should do it. They reached out to me. I said you bet. I'm in. And we knew it'd be time consuming project. Massive project and they're in some time consumption on my end. But I said I'm in.

Definitely I'm in. But the first reason they came to me was compassion. And friends I'm saying that to say if me, someone who's been known over the decades for confrontation, for tackling the hard issues, for speaking the truth no matter what. If I could be known for compassion you can be known for compassion. Don't say I'm just not a compassionate person.

Neither was I in many ways. But I've spent many an hour before the Lord. Many a year over the years before the Lord asking for his heart and praying love verses out loud and saying Lord give me those qualities.

Did that as a new believer. And then being married to Nancy who's got such deep compassion for suffering hurting people and listening to her heart and saying God I need more of that. If I can be compassionate you can be compassionate. And friends we're called. We're called to walk in love. Let's, let's, all right, okay tell you what I'm just looking at calls to get to.

Let's go to Christopher in Massachusetts. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Hello Dr. Brown how are you?

Doing well, thank you. So I have a question about homosexuality and gender identity concerning deliverance. Yeah.

The question is do you think that those issues required the, do you think issues required the deliverance ministry in the Christian church? In some cases. For families who have that. In some cases. Because we know of a family that has a young boy, he's like 13 or 14, and he believes that, you know, he is a homosexual. And, you know, in the day, in the day and age we live in. Yeah so, so Christopher.

I don't know what to do about that but. So, so right, right, so just explain. In some cases people may need to be delivered from demonic power, just like in some cases someone struggling with porn may need deliverance, or someone who's committed adultery may need deliverance, or someone who's a drug addict or an alcoholic. In other words, there's no blanket answer.

There's no blanket answer. I'd encourage you, if you don't have my book, Can You Be Gay and Christian and want to read up more, you'll find it very helpful. Can You Be Gay and Christian. But there may be many reasons why this child at 13 is same-sex attracted and identifies as homosexual.

There may be many. It could have to do with his upbringing and a breach in relationship with his father, maybe not being in the house. It could be due to being sexually abused. This can happen as well. There could be other factors. There could be confusion now because it's kind of the cool thing for some of the in thing, and social media celebrating various things. So to just blanket say he needs to be delivered, he's under demonic power.

No, I can't say that. In some cases, there are roots the person has opened up the door and they need to be delivered. They need to be set free. In other cases, it's a matter of counsel, relationships, various things like that. There's a comprehensive book by Joe Dallas and Anne Heche, H-E-C-H-E. Joe Dallas and Anne Heche, forgive me for mispronunciation, H-E-C-H-E that goes through counseling principles and others is very, very helpful. If you feel the need to look into this or want to refer to their family, check that out. That book will be helpful as well, and thanks for calling and being concerned.

Let's see, let's go to Renea in North Carolina. Sorry if I got your name wrong, but welcome to the line of fire. Yes, how are you doing? I was listening. Yes, I thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to just kind of chime in. First, thank you for talking about this.

It's a very hard subject to talk about dealing with being a Christian at the same time. I am a lesbian woman, and I wanted to chime in. I believe her name was Shana. What was her name? Shana.

Shana. And I basically agree with everything she said, and it's very honorable what she did. The sacrifice that she made for her love for Christ, she was just in love with Jesus more. And I think that's honorable, but one other thing, when you asked her a question about, can you be a Christian, did she feel like she was a Christian during a time of her lesbian lifestyle?

And I am. I consider myself a Christian, a Christ follower, and I'm a lesbian, and I know that there's a lot of theology that goes around the fact that if you're going to go to hell just because you're a lesbian, that I always tell people, well, sin is sin, and we all fall short of the glory of God, and we all are born into sin. No man is without sin at all. But I definitely feel like God has been talking to me since I was a child, that I have a calling on my life. And like her, I've been a lesbian ever since I can remember, like, usually when kids go through this point or when they get attracted to one sex or the other.

Let me just ask you this for clarification. Are you saying that you're same-sex attracted, you don't feel that can change, but you know it's sinful, so you're not in a relationship, you don't practice being a lesbian, you're following Jesus? Or are you saying, hey, we all sin, so I sin too, but I'm still saved because of the blood of Jesus, even though I'm actively living as a lesbian? I just want to make sure I understand you. I do believe that I'm sinned because of the grace, because it is something that I fought with, like Shanna, I prayed during childhood, I prayed for God to take it away. I did make the sacrifice of being celibate myself for a very long time. My cry out to God is that please show me, you know, I feel if they show me that I worship, whether that love comes in a man or in a woman, I do feel more attracted to women, so that's why I classify myself as a lesbian.

I'm not sexually attracted to men, but I can be attracted to, you know, I can be more attracted to a woman, you get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Hey, listen, I apologize. The show's about to end. I'd love to talk to you another day if you can call in, but if you can stay there, it's going to take Keith a moment.

If you can stay there, he's going to get back on. I want to send you my book, Can You Be Gay and Christian? And look, if a man is married, but he finds himself deeply attracted, not attracted to his wife anymore, and she's not interested in him, and he finds himself attracted to a man, to a woman he's not married to, it's still adultery, it's still sin. So to be in a relationship with another woman is sinful in God's sight. It will always be sinful in God's sight, but there is grace, there is forgiveness to turn and to be empowered to live a holy life. He can help you do that and he can even change you, but if he doesn't, he'll give you the power to live a holy life.

So stay right there. I want to send you a copy of Can You Be Gay and Christian? Let's pray for Renee to really encounter God in a deeper way than she ever has. And friends, these are our friends, these are our neighbors, these are our family members. We're going to show them grace and truth together. Another program powered by the Truth Network.