Did Hobby Lobby Go Too Far in their July 4th Ad?

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So, did Hobby Lobby go too far with their July 4th ad? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Was America ever truly a Christian nation? Is America a Christian nation? Should we be striving to make America a Christian nation? And what do we make of the Hobby Lobby ad on July 4th with quotes from our founders, quotes from Supreme Court justices speaking of the Christian roots of our nation, speaking of the supremacy of the biblical faith, speaking of the importance of elected officials to be God-fearing and to be Christian?

Did Hobby Lobby go too far? Welcome to the broadcast. Hey friends, Michael Brown here, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. We got a bunch of things we're going to cover today.

I want to talk about more examples of a very dangerous trajectory we've warned about for years. I want to tell you briefly what I love best about America, some jarring news from Nigeria, a whole bunch of things we'll be covering, and your calls, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Now, the phone lines are open if you want to talk to me about anything on your mind.

I may take some calls on random subjects a little later in the show. But right now, my question for you, in your mind, was America ever a Christian nation? To what extent do we have biblical roots, Judeo-Christian foundations? To what extent is the blessing that's been on our nation a direct result of America being founded as a godly nation? To what extent should we be striving to make America a Christian nation, or is that misguided?

Is that a wrong approach to things? And does America have a special covenant with God, or does God have a special covenant with America? What do you think?

866-348-7884. Okay. June, in case you missed it, was Gay Pride Month. And although there are all kinds of special days for commemoration and celebration through the year, June, the month of the Stonewall Riots in New York City, June is Gay Pride Month. Now, interestingly, all eight years of the Obama presidency, that was celebrated by the White House. The Trump presidency, at least the first two years or three, it was not celebrated, which was significant statement being made to say, we're not focusing on this activism.

We welcome every citizen in America, but we're not focusing on this activism. So anyway, everywhere I turned on internet, everywhere I looked, there was something every day, pride this, pride that, gay pride. Okay, so now it's July 4th, and Hobby Lobby's gonna send out their message, as they do at times like this. Special holidays, you know, Easter, Christmas, they'll post faith-based ads. They're known for their Christian convictions and seeking to operate based on those Christian convictions. So they put out a July 4th ad, and there has been quite a reaction against it. Is the reaction justified?

Are the quotes accurate? So I wrote an article about that, and I want to scroll through some of this article with you, and it asks the question, did Hobby Lobby go full Dominionism? So what does Dominionism mean?

It's normally used by critics. There are Christians, though, who use the term as well. But the concept is that we are supposed to take over society, not by force, but that we are supposed to take over. This is the Dominionist view, that the Great Commission is not just to win people of Jesus, but to disciple whole nations, and ultimately, this is now another step beyond that, ultimately, to bring everything in society, government, media, education, everything under the domain of the Gospel so that Christians have dominion over the earth.

It would be said that that was the commission in Genesis 1 to Adam and Eve to take dominion over everything else in creation. Now, as Christians, we are to take dominion through the Gospel of the whole world. So that's different than saying we should make an impact in every area. That's different from saying we should seek to infiltrate every area of society with the Gospel, with the good news, with truth.

That's different than saying we should advocate for our views in the voter box. No, this is saying that we should actually take over, or advocating a theocracy, advocating that Christians or ministers, Christian leaders, should rule the nation and that biblical values should be imposed on the nation. So there should be mandatory Sabbath laws with severe penalties. There should be severe penalties from the government for committing adultery, and on and on.

Others would call this theonomy, where you take God's laws from the Old Testament and now seek to apply them across the board whenever possible to today's society. So is that what Hobby Lobby did? So let's look at some of the reaction to the ad, then we'll look at the actual ad.

So some responses. A headline on the popular gay atheist blog site JoeMyGod said this, Hobby Lobby goes full dominionist in July 4th ad. So that was their headline.

Now, JoeMyGod's attacked me many a time over the years. I'm not expecting him to give a nuanced response to the ad, but no surprise, that was his take. A viral tweet claimed this, Hobby Lobby took out a full page ad in the register guard this morning, it's in many other places, talking about how America should only be led by Christians. Absolutely frightening. Hmm.

Is that what the ad said? We're going to see in a minute. America should only be led by Christians. All right, I'm going to go through more of the article. Let's just stop for a second and ask this question.

What do you think? Do you think that atheists should be governors, presidents? Do you think that Hindus, Muslims should be senators, leaders of our nation? Do you think that God-mockers should sit in the Supreme Court? Do you think that someone who's a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness, someone's an occult, they should be our president? Or is there no religious test?

You might say, well, I want someone who's God-fearing and who holds the biblical values because I believe that person theoretically could do the best job governing, but it's certainly not a litmus test. Okay, back to some of the responses to the article. Another tweet alleged full page of dominionist propaganda in this morning's Boston Globe, courtesy of Hobby Lobby, and then reminds the separation of church and state.

Dominionist propaganda saying it's a full page. Another tweet stated Hobby Lobby faces backlash for July 4th ad claiming only Christians belong in America. So it's not that only Christians should lead America, but that only Christians belong in America. Is there any way under the sun Hobby Lobby said that? Obviously not, but what's provoking all of this? Another tweet, and they're more cited by Joe, my God, claimed, quote, Hobby Lobby's owners should look at the U.S. Constitution.

There's no litmus test for religion to hold public office, and there's surely no mandate for a theocracy. Also, they might want to review the Ten Commandments since they're fond of stealing artifacts from other countries. So obviously an attack on Hobby Lobby's ethics. And then Snopes.com, which is the left-leaning fact-checker website, so you often have to check Snopes. They devoted the page to examining whether it was true that, quote, on Independence Day in 2021, Hobby Lobby craft stores placed an ad in several newspapers that read, One Nation Under God. And the verdict was, yes, it's true.

Yes, it was true. Exactly. So no controversy about that, and no big deal.

What's the big deal about saying that the goal is or that we call ourselves one nation under God? What's wrong with that? And Snopes actually covered things fairly in terms of what was actually said and not said. All right, so let's break down what the ad actually says. All right, I've got an article up on this on our website, AskDrBrown.org, if you want to read more.

But let me go through this. So is Hobby Lobby guilty of preaching dominionism? Is Hobby Lobby guilty of suggesting that only Christians can run for office or that America should be led or populated only by Christians?

So Hobby Lobby has a link to the ad, and we'll go to that link in a moment. But it starts off—in fact, we'll go to the link for those that are watching—it starts off in the ad, it says, One Nation Under God. There's a flag, and it says, One Nation Under God. Okay, well, that is what we say in the Pledge, correct? And that, you know, in God we trust that's been on our coins for, what, 70 years, something like that? Certainly our founders would have accepted this concept. And then it quotes Psalm 33 12, Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.

What? That works. Sounds good to me.

Sounds very good to me. Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. It's simply saying that if we follow the true God, if we follow the true Lord, then we'll be blessed.

If he's our God, we'll be blessed. That's their viewpoint. I agree with it.

Wholeheartedly, absolutely, with every fiber of my being, I believe that to the extent a nation turns to the one true God, that nation will be blessed by the one true God. Then it has a bunch of quotes from presidents, founding fathers, Supreme Court justices, Congress, and Supreme Court rulings, also as education quotes, and some foreign opinion, Alexis de Tocqueville from France in the 1700s, et cetera. All right, so back to my article.

I select some of the quotes, and I look at them. So let's see. John Adams. John Adams stated that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. In other words, a constitution like ours and the presuppositions of our nation require a moral and religious people. There is a certain responsibility that comes with this form of government, and if we're not moral and religious, the whole thing will collapse. Jedediah Morse, who is listed as a founding father, would not be known in a leading way in that regard, he gave this opinion, whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, all the blessings which flow from them must fall with them. Again, these are true convictions that many have held to through the centuries. The ad also quoted Thomas Jefferson, who was obviously not a fundamentalist Christian in any regard, and he asked, can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? There's even a quote from Benjamin Franklin, who is not a Christian, pointing to the deity's providential care over the world. So all these quotes thus far do not say that America should only be led by Christians, or only populated by Christians.

What were the quotes that led some people to make these accusations? Look, when we come back, and what's your take? Was America ever a Christian nation?

Should our goal be to make it a Christian nation? So what does that actually mean? It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Phone lines are open, 866-348-7884. By the way, we're going to have a really neat Bible-based broadcast tomorrow. I think you're really going to enjoy that. We're going to take a bunch of calls as well. And then Thursday, we've got some exciting news, major outreach development with our ministry in Israel. Want to share that with you, and a bunch of important things to catch up with with worldwide anti-Semitism. And then Friday, you've got questions, we've got answers.

So God willing, that's our schedule the rest of the week. Before we go to your calls, let me go back to the Hobby Lobby ad, the article that I wrote about this July 4th. I really appreciate what they're doing. Now let's remember this, and I didn't say this at the outset, but we know right now that our nation is under attack from within. That rather than people celebrating July 4th, they're bemoaning it. That they're saying from day one, America was a racist nation. They're peddling lies that the whole purpose of the Constitution was to support white supremacy, or the whole purpose of America was to support white supremacy.

These are lies. It's one thing to deal with the sin of slavery and racial segregation and discrimination in our history, and then to look at it fairly and honestly and see what we did right and see what we did wrong. It's another thing to libel the founders and libel the history of the nation and to just repeat the prevalent narrative that's out there these days. And I'm hearing it more and more. It's like the brainwashing has taken effect. It's just suddenly shifted in people's mentality.

Critical mass was reached and suddenly shifted in people's mentality. And I want to do my best, God helping in the days ahead, to expose how that's been done. So we stand for justice, we stand for reconciliation, we stand for what's right, and we oppose lies at the same time. So Hobby Lobby is also pushing back against that and against the false narrative of our origins and saying, yes, we have much to celebrate. And yes, we have much that's Christian in root in our roots, R-O-O-T-S. So other quotes I mentioned in the Hobby Lobby ad, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, neither of whom were fundamentalist Christians, evangelical Christians, or Christians at all. There are quotes pointing to the supremacy of the scriptures like this one from the first Chief Justice, John Jay, who wrote, quote, the Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Now, there are also quotes that affirm that America was founded as a Christian nation, that Christians were best suited to lead the nation, and that the Christian faith lay at the root of our legal system.

So John Quincy Adams said, is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon the earth? James Madison argued that a non-believer was not fit for leadership, stating, quote, before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the governor of the universe. John Jay also said, quote, providence, which is the way God would be spoken of in very general philosophical terms, providence is given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. Perhaps that's the strongest quote in the Hobby Lobby ad that would say only Christians should lead us in getting the reaction they got from others. Let's look at that again. Providence is given, now remember, he's the first Chief Justice. This is early American history.

Providence is given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. So in response to that, the Freedom From Religion Foundation led by former evangelical now staunch atheist Dan Barker, one of the people I debated in the first eight episodes of That's Debatable, which just aired the first show last week on the new Awakening TV network, that's AWKNG. If you want to find out more, go to my Instagram That's Debatable account, just one word, That's Debatable on Instagram. But Freedom From Religion Foundation put out an ad, or it's on their website, they posted a rebuttal to the quotes and it was titled, In Hobby Lobby, We Don't Trust. So it says, do these quotes prove we are a Christian nation?

Click them to find out. So let's say the very first one, quote from George Washington, President Washington, you quote on that, and then it comes up, so that's on the left side, on the right side, verdict deliberately altered not Washington's personal views. And it goes through the whole quote, and it's got in red, you know, what they're, look at this, you have to see the whole thing, and it's got commentary on it, right? So here's the full quote that they supply, Where it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.

And whereas both houses of Congress have by their joint committee requested me to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peacefully to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness. And they say, well, you know, Washington, he was giving other views, it wasn't really his own view, it's deliberately altered. Well, bottom line, bottom line, when you step back from this, and just look at what Washington is quoted as saying, the abbreviated form of that by Hobby Lobby, versus the full quote, the effect is the same.

The effect is the same. But Hobby Lobby goes through each quote, and I have the links in my article. So you can look at what they add, and then you can look at each quote, and you can judge for yourself. That, you know, for example, they talk about Harvard, and the aim of every student should be the knowledge of Jesus, and Solomon. Harvard was founded in, what, 1636, or something like that, and for the glory of Christ, and so on.

And they say, well, that's irrelevant. Well, no, it's not irrelevant to say that's how Christian America was. Out of the first 200 colleges and universities founded in America, well over 90%, probably 95%, were founded by Christians for Christian purposes. And some of them founded initially as seminaries for the training of people in ministry. And then they expand it, like a Harvard, that's where it would start. And then they expand it to say, well, we want to just raise up people, solid Christians, for every area of society.

This is quite relevant. So here's what Hobby Lobby got right, in my view. They reminded us of the degree to which many of our founders and first presidents and leaders looked to God and recognized that America was raised up by God's grace, and that to the extent we honored him and followed biblical principles to that extent, we'd be blessed. Many of the founders believed that. Many of our early leaders, legislators believed that. When you look at correspondence among the founders and those laying out the direction of our nation, and you look at documents that are quoted, you know, you have certain law books that they quoted extensively and other things, but number one thing they quoted was scripture. So this was in their minds, even if they were not all religious men in the way we think of it today.

So Hobby Lobby did well to remind us of that. They did well to remind us how Christian-based our education system was. And remember, this is before America was a pluralistic society. I mean, Catholicism was very small at that time. Jewish population, tiny.

Muslim population, hardly to mention or think of, right? I mean, this is overwhelmingly either Christian or secular. So this was the religion they thought of. This was their world and through much of the 1800s. I mean, there was spiritual backsliding, absolutely, and going away from these roots, of course. And we were flawed from day one.

Why? Because there are human beings involved. Even the colonies to the extent that they thought to be theocracies. They were going to be like mini theocracies.

So they were flawed in that. So I fully understand we've never fully been a Christian nation. And obviously, when you look at our treatment of Native Americans and our treatment of Africans, and obviously, we were never a fully Christian nation. But there is much in our background, in our roots that is biblical.

And to the extent we recover that, that's what my whole book Saving a Sick America was about. Not a theocracy. I wholeheartedly oppose the theocracy.

I wholeheartedly oppose dominionism. But to the extent that we recover by our own choice and will, by more and more people in the nation turning back to God and to biblical values, and to the extent the church lives this out, to that extent, to that extent, we'll be blessed. To the extent we turn away, we won't.

Not just our nation, but any nation. That being said, I believe it was unwise for Hobby Lobby to have quotes suggesting that only Christians should lead the nation or only Christians are best suited to lead the nation. Even if that's their own viewpoint, it is going to be so easily misunderstood. It is going to sound as if they're saying, if we have the power to implement this, this is what many are going to hear, then we will only allow Christians to run for office. You know, that's what's basically being said.

And that's what at least people are hearing, is being said. And that, to me, now tears away from the value of the ad. So if I had been asked, which I wasn't, and I don't know anyone at Hobby Lobby, but if I had been asked, I would have said, hey, we got bunches of other great quotes. I've got tons of them. Anyone that studied the origins of our nation or early education or whatever, got tons of them. Many, many others we could supply.

Use those and take out those few quotes which have so ignited a firestorm. And now we have to undo that damage. You say, well, they would have been blessed anyway.

Oh, good. Be blasted for the good stuff. Don't be blasted for the stuff that could be misunderstood or for the stuff that spoke of a certain context. You know, when John Jay said what he said about Christian leaders, so it's basically Christian or non-believing or Christian and maybe God mocking. And he's saying, well, who do we want to lead our nation?

Someone that leans on God and looks to God and believes in God and holds to biblical values. There's someone who casts all this out. Well, obviously we say the former versus the latter, but it's the way it's phrased, especially in our pluralistic society that can lead to misunderstanding. So I appreciate the intent of the ad. I appreciate their unashamed Christian values. I honor them for that.

And I wish they had left a few of the quotes out that get a backlash and further accusations of dominionism and so on that weren't necessary. Take your calls when we come back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the Line of Fire. I want to take some of your calls about your reflections on America.

Was America ever a Christian nation? I want to talk about something I've been warning about for years, but underscoring it. Prepare to be jarred, all right, that this is why we've been sounding the alarm for years. Before we go to the phones, I wrote an article for July 4th entitled What I Love Best About America. What I Love Best About America.

It's posted on stream, stream.org. And I start off the article by explaining, look, I know about America's sins. All right, I've written whole books about America's sins. I'm a repentance preacher.

I'm revivalist at heart, calling us to repent and turn to God for forgiveness and for mercy. So I understand that. I understand the blood on our hands through abortion.

I understand so many issues in terms of our sin today and our sin yesterday. At the same time, when you compare America to other nations, America is an amazing country. So because I've been outside of the U.S. over 175 times, maybe overseas 150 times, maybe my overseas trips as short as two days, but as long as a month. So I've spent a few years of my life out of the country. And in that regard, I've learned to appreciate the beauty of other cultures. At one time in our ministry school, we had students from 34 nations, so working with them, getting to know them.

We have missionaries around the world. I've got dear friends working in other countries. So I've learned to appreciate the beauty of other cultures. I've learned to appreciate different sounds and smells and tastes and ways of looking at the world.

All these things I can appreciate. I've come back to America sometimes from other countries feeling even worse about America after being abroad. I know how we have exported some of the worst of our culture around the world. And I know the amazing good we've done, incredible good we've done, the good we've done that has helped the world in many, many ways. And what I like best about America, what I really appreciate best about our nation is the can-do mentality, the anything-is-possible mentality, the mentality that anyone starting anywhere can potentially get anywhere. And obviously, most people don't live that out on that level.

They don't start from absolute obscurity and end up worldwide known and famous, but so many live that out on some level. And people come from around the world because of all the opportunities, but it's not just the opportunities. And America is a land of incredible opportunities, which is why people flood here still from around the world. There are far more flooding in than flooding out. We understand that.

There's good reason for it, but it's not just the opportunities. There's a mindset. Now, we grow up with it.

We don't often recognize it. But years ago, I was talking to a colleague of mine. His daughter was married to a Russian man. They were both Jewish believers in Jesus, and she had left him and married with kids. She had left him. And I was asking the father, the daughter's father I'd known for years. I said, is he pursuing her?

Is he doing what he can to reconcile and fighting for the marriage? He goes, he doesn't have that mentality. He doesn't have that American can do mentality. That doesn't mean that everyone in America has it.

No one in Russia has it. But there is our makeup, our liberties, our freedoms, the vastness of the country, the some of the biblical thinking that went into our founding. It leads into this anything is possible mentality. And that's something that we often don't appreciate here in America.

We often don't get. So I appreciate it. And I know it's part of my psyche.

Obviously, first and foremost as a believer with God, all things are possible. But don't take that for granted. While while we bemoan the sins of our nation and pray for God's mercy at the same time, let's appreciate the good.

Let's be grateful for it, especially those who sacrificed for our good. All right. Eight, six, six, three, four truth. By the way, John Cordero posting all these falsehoods about the deity of Jesus denying it. Call the show.

Call the show. Because every word you're posting is false, sir. Every word. It's off topic, so I'm not going there now. But just as I looked at it on Facebook, what you're posting is false.

And every word of what I said is scripturally backed. So feel free to call. Call the show on Thursday. Call the show on Friday.

Call the show tomorrow. And you show one false word that I uttered about the deity of the Messiah scripturally. All right. Just prepare.

You better be ready, because I will blast your error out of the water with the truth of scripture. Fair enough? Fair enough.

All right. To the phones. Let's go to Patrick in Pennsylvania. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. God bless you. I wanted to say at first I applaud Hobby Lobby for what they did. Absolutely. But also, are you really surprised that they would bring up Dominionism or these other ideas because of who they are and their tact, looking at God from a very negative point of view? We're to be salt and light, but it doesn't mean we should hide the truth or sugarcoat it. Yes, we witness Christ in love, but they have to understand there is no way that there's any compulsion of any type to become a Christian. You cannot be coerced to be a Christian in no shape or form. We all have to be broken before God humbly and repentant to ask Him to take over. Yes, sir.

You're a hundred percent right. So of course, I agree with everything you just said in terms of the gospel. So let me ask this just to understand theologically. Do you think that let's just say we had a strong majority of Christians come into government to the point that we controlled, strongly controlled the White House, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court. Should we then basically impose, not that everyone has to become a Christian, but now say, okay, the whole nation has to operate by all these biblical principles. We are now going to enforce this on the entire nation. So you can't have a secular school, for example.

It must be Bible-based. Would you feel that that's right or wrong? Absolutely wrong. Okay, yeah, so that would be an extreme view of Dominionism.

And I would not associate that with Hobby Lobby. I've never known them to have that position. I don't know if they have a stated theological position in that regard. It's when you have quotes saying that only Christians should lead the nation that people are going to come to a wrong conclusion. That's why I said I would have rather they left those out.

Go ahead. I believe you're quoting from Yale, because Yale at one point was the early stages. That was their position. In fact, you could not be a patriot unless you were a Christian. No, I fully understand many of the early leaders held that viewpoint, because in their view, it was either that or being godless, right?

Either you're God-fearing, God-honoring. I'm saying it's unwise to have those quotes today in a pluralistic society when that ends up getting what's picked on, and the rest of the impact of the ad gets diminished. I can understand that, but at the same time, when you look at what they, their approach towards us is incredible. Yeah, absolutely.

Incredibly hostile. Yeah, yeah. So the key thing is, and they're pushing back against that, which I really appreciate.

Let me ask you this, Patrick. Do you think it would be wise today, let's say, on the platform that God's given me, for me to say publicly, hey, in my view, the only people that we should elect into public office are born-again followers of Jesus. Now, that's not my view, by the way, but if that was my view, do you think that would be wise to err? No, I think you would alienate quite a few people if you were trying to get into office. Right, well, not if I was trying to get into office, just I'm sharing on my radio show, just my perspective, and I'm trying to advance the gospel, I'm trying to spread the knowledge of the Lord.

I understand your point of view, and I understand where you're coming from with this. I also believe that there is a, there should be a dialogue that we should be able to bring forth, and even if it's confrontation at first, it's someone's seats, it's speaking truth. Right, the truth that I say is not truth is that only a Christian should run for office. I don't believe that's true, or that only a Christian should be able to lead the nation.

We're a pluralistic society, and if someone I feel has the right ethics and would be a good leader in a particular way, could be a religious Jew, could just be a more secular person, but it has strong morals, then I'd evaluate everything in voting. So that's where I differ with that part of the ad, both the sentiment of it and putting it out, and that's what's gotten a lot of the backlash. But all the other points, yeah, we're in harmony, Patrick. Hey, thank you, thank you for the call, and let us continue to push back through the gospel against this hostile culture.

Let's go to Thomas in Stanley, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I really, really like this program. It's extremely knowledgeable, extremely intelligent. You know your Greek, your Hebrew very well, and it just seems like no matter what topic someone asks or you bring up about scriptures, you have a very good knowledge base of it, and it really gets some really good in-depth stuff. Okay, so saying that, I just wanted to make a few comments about what the program's about today.

I heard your introduction as I was riding home from work, and then you went on break, and I didn't hear for about 10 minutes or so, because I had some things to do. But anyway, I firmly believe that our nation was founded on Christianity. Many of our founding fathers were Christians, and the way of the words of the Declaration of the Union and the Constitution, I think were put together with the Lord God Almighty in mind, and the kind of nation that they wanted our nation to be under God. And however, some of the comments like what you were just saying, saying about what you want to say, that you think all of our leaders would want to be elected as Christians and as a nation. No, I don't think you should say that.

I think it's illegal for too many people because of today's time and what we live in. Yeah, I'm just jumping in because we have a break. Obviously, if we have a God-fearing, Jesus-loving, moral person capable of being a good leader, that's great. That's wonderful. But we are a pluralistic society, and to whatever degree we have biblical roots, we have been pluralistic from day one on a certain level. If you have a country with biblical roots, it will have room for all different peoples who disparate with you in the process. Alright, we'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire, 866-348-7884. There is a reason, friends, that since 2004, I have been sounding the alarm about the direction of LGBTQ plus activism. You say, well, Mike, why do you refer to it as LGBTQ plus, et cetera? Aren't you playing into the whole terminology?

Oh, I'm doing that to talk about the trajectory. To say, hey, people say, look, we're just fighting for equality, tolerance, freedom. We want our relationships to be recognized the same as yours.

We want to raise our families the same as yours. I understand the sentiments and understand difficulties and challenges that many have lived through. Maybe you're listening to me now. You say, I didn't ask to have same sex attraction. I didn't ask to feel like I was trapped in the wrong body. You don't know what I've suffered over the years. No, I don't know.

And I hate the fact that you've suffered. I'm simply saying that we don't redefine reality and change our whole society based on someone's sexual attractions or gender identity confusion, that there's a better way, that God has a better way. So I wrote this article. If you've got kids around, this is not the most kid friendly segment. Okay. Just to give you a heads up, cause I often meet families and the kids can recite the phone number and they can give me the introduction. They repeat it back to me cause they're listening with the parents.

So maybe just a time for the kiddies to do something a little different. So my latest article, this is the dangerous LGBTQ plus trajectory that we've been warning about. So I recently explained that as much as I'm sympathetic to the goals of gay Americans who feel they're simply fighting for equality and freedom, I can't support those goals for two reasons. One is biblical. So same sex relationships and this gender variations violate God's best plan for humanity.

And the second is social. When we look at the trajectory of LGBTQ plus activism, we see it ends up going in a very dangerous and destructive direction. So recently a man who identifies as a woman went to a spa and in the presence of women and children, steam room, whatever, exposed himself.

Okay. In the presence of women and children, when there was people upset about what just happened, it seemed the person worked at the spa said, well, we can't discriminate based on whatever there's debate about what was actually happening. So now to protests, they've even gotten violent for the spa and against the guy exposing himself and Antifa gets involved, of course on the wrong side of this. So there ends up being violence. So it's true that many in the gay and lesbian community are appalled that this Tammy Bruce on Fox News herself, lesbian, said that this is troubling to many of her transgender friends. She said, I have perhaps more transgender friends than some of the people watching the program.

They're also appalled, et cetera. So I understand this. The trajectory is not that in every spa in the nation, men are going to go in posing as women to expose themselves. It's happened.

Junks like this happen, similar things in the past in other settings, but that's, that's not the trajectory that I'm shouting about. It's this. So check out this headline from the Daily Mail. And again, not the most kid-friendly headline. Are you ready? I'm going to read it verbatim.

Violent clashes break out in LA between rival protesters after viral video showed customer complaining about transgender woman exposing their penis to children in upmarket spas steam room. Hang on. Woman exposing their penis in the presence of girls. But hang on. How about that sentence? The insanity.

This is now the way we're talking. A woman exposes her male organ. Women do not have those organs. Men do. Men, males, biological males.

It's part of the pun. We're not talking about someone intersects with, with ambiguous genitalia or something like that, or dual genitalia. We're talking about a biological man who identifies as a woman exposing himself. This is criminal behavior.

This is criminal behavior. But now we're told it's a woman exposing her piece. No, no, hang on. Not hers. There.

Because transgender, you have to refer to in this way and in a gender neutral way. This is the madness. This is absolutely societal madness. This is the direction we've been going. This is the trajectory.

This is why we have to raise our voices the way that we do to shout, turn around, turn around. You want to help people who are confused and kids who are struggling. There's a better way. Let's work to help them from the inside out. Let's put our efforts into finding out why people have these disorders and why people have these abnormalities.

Let's do our best to help them. And if a gay couple, if two men or two women want to live together, it's their business. And if they are able to bring a child into the world, I mean, that's their private business. But here's why we stand against the redefinition of marriage. And here's why we stand for a kid having a mom and a dad.

All right. Speaking of child abuse, how about this? Mary Margaret Olahan and The Daily Caller and then The Stream posted an article titled, You Should Be in Prison. Quotes, a slam Washington Post article encouraging kink culture for children. So she explains a Washington Post op-ed published Tuesday, June 29th, celebrates and encourages exposing children to kink culture such as explicit performances at Pride parades. Yes, kink belongs at Pride, reads the headline of writer Lauren Rowella's Tuesday Washington Post piece.

And I want my kids to see it. As for Rowella, Olahan tells us that she is, quote, a gender vague person who is married to a transgender woman. Rowella described how the couple attended a Pride parade where their children were confused to see a few dozen kinksters who danced down the street laughing together as they twirled their whips and batons, some leading companions by leashes. But Rowella wanted her kids to see this. Hey, kids, these are my words. Check out the BDSM practices enjoyed by some of our community since, in her words, children who witnessed kink culture are reassured that alternative experiences of sexuality and expression are valid no matter who they become as they mature, helping them recognize that their personal experiences aren't bad or wrong and that they aren't alone in their experiences. This is parental child abuse is what it is. That's why Ben Shapiro tweeted, in a sane society, child protective services would already be on the way. And remember, friends, this was not published in Advocate, you know, flagship gay publication or Village Voice, radical left gay publication, you know, gay celebrating publication. This was in the Washington Post.

This is the trajectory. This is the normalization of the perverse. You say, yeah, but most people in our community, gay community, don't like that stuff.

That's not the issue. The issue is look at where it goes once you normalize same sex relationship, once you normalize transgender identity. There's even a book coming out called Trans by Helen Joyce. She's the senior writer at The Economist.

She's got a Ph.D. in mathematics. The book is endorsed by atheist Richard Dawkins. The book is endorsed by gay activists. And it's warning about the rewriting of reality based on trans identity. So, friends, we've been warning about the trajectory for a reason.

I wrote an article, what was it, five years ago? Gay activists are coming for your children, not meaning they're trying to sleep with your children, but meaning they're trying to indoctrinate your children. Now a major headline is reporting that the flood of gay characters, the flood of gay characters in our children's programming is not just some haphazard thing, but activists working together have made that happen. There's no mystery.

This is not like a new discovery. So while we pray for those who struggle with same sex attraction and those who struggle with gender identity to find wholeness and to find a better way in God, we will categorically stand against the activism in Jesus name. We will do it together. Together, friends, we'll make a difference. Okay, I'm not gonna end here.

I want to step back, completely change gears, take a deep breath, completely change gears. One of our dear friends served sacrificially as a missionary in Nigeria. She works with the poorest of the poor to educate little children, to help the teachers, goes into Islamic areas and says, hey, we can have a Christian school here. It's the best education.

You want your kids to get it? And the Muslim parents said, I mean, she is fearless for Jesus, serving sacrificially. And she sent me two recent headlines. So I'm totally changing gears, but I don't want us, I don't want us to forget about the plight of believers in other countries and the suffering that's taking place.

All right, so I know it's jarring, I know we're totally switching gears, but I want to do this. All right, headline number one, bandits go berserk, kidnap Kaduna students, Taraba NLC chairs as a government official, Borno Catholic priest. Bandits go berserk.

All right, next headline she sends me. 1,065 students kidnapped, six killed, 273 held in seven months. These are largely kidnapped by Islamic terrorists. These are largely Christians, although others are victims as well. This is happening in Nigeria. 1,065 students kidnapped, six killed, 273 held in seven months. May God break our hearts with the pain and suffering of his people around the world. May we stand together in prayer and may we, recognizing their courage in real life and death situations, stand strong and tall for what we believe here in the relative ease of America. Another program powered by the Truth Network.