The Failure of “Progressive” Religious Faith

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There's a reason why so-called progressive religion is failing. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Be prepared to be edified, encouraged, and strengthened in your faith.

This is Michael Brown. Here's the number to call, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Here's what we're going to do, like we do on Fridays. Any question of any kind, any subject you want to discuss with me, by all means, give me a call. I'm opening the phones. I've got a bunch of things I want to share first, and then I'll take your calls, 866-34-8-7-884. Also, for those who differ with me, but for whatever reason, either you can't call or you'd rather not call, feel free to post a difference on Facebook or YouTube. My team will be checking in the comments section if you're watching live on Ask Dr. Brown, ASKDearBrown, on either Facebook or YouTube. You've got some issues, some bone to pick. Post your comment. If we spot it and we're able to interact with it, I may interact with some posted comments as well as phone calls, all right? Fair enough?

Okay. I wrote an article published on the stream and elsewhere yesterday, and the title was another example of the failure of, quote, progressive religious faith. Those of us who hold to certain fundamentals, those of us who are absolute in our beliefs, those of us who say the Bible is God's inspired word and it shows us the way of salvation.

And outside of Jesus, there is no salvation. We would be considered antiquated. We would be considered fundamentalist, even extremist by many in the world. And others say you must have a, quote, progressive religious faith. You must move and evolve with the times. There are things in the Bible that are outdated, outmoded. This would be the, quote, progressive view. There are things that are outdated and that are outmoded.

And we have to get rid of those. We have to shed those parts of our faith and be progressive and understand the Bible rightly and apply it rightly. And that will then minister to a new generation. And that generation in turn will be religious and will be devoted and will be spiritual. But they won't have all the old baggage because it's the old baggage that's driving people away. It's the old baggage of a bigoted God and a bigoted Bible and small-minded religious extremists. That's what's driving people away. Instead, we need to be enlightened and understanding. That's the argument.

The fact is the truth goes in the opposite direction. Now, to be clear, there are things in the Bible that were just for biblical times. For example, the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath, the death penalty for committing adultery, the call to burn a sorcerer or a witch to death, that was under the Sinai Covenant.

That was when God revealed himself, physically, for the whole nation, to see, when I say physically, I mean the mountain on fire and the people hearing his voice, after bringing them out of Egypt miraculously and splitting the sea for them to walk through, he then gave his standards. And laws like that are also common in the ancient world in terms of death penalty for various offenses. But that is not carried over into the New Testament where if you violate the Sabbath you're put to death or if you commit adultery you're put to death. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5, let's say you have someone that claims to be a follower of Jesus but they left their spouse, they're living in adultery, and they refuse to repent. You reach out to them, they refuse to repent. They continue saying, no, I'm a Christian, I'm following Jesus, God told me to leave my old relationship and he's blessing this new relationship.

Well, what do you do? Do you stone that person? No, you excommunicate them.

You don't kill them, you excommunicate them. So we fully understand that there were certain things that were given for biblical times that are not for all times. We also understand there are other principles that are universal moral principles. For example, murder will always be wrong in any generation and any culture and forever and ever. Adultery will always be wrong in any era, in any culture, and forever.

Stealing will always be wrong in any culture, any era, and forever. So when we think that we are being progressive and we now deny the moral values of scripture, we are going backwards, not forwards. Now, I've written a bunch of articles on these on these subjects. In fact, I just want to throw some headlines up of different articles that I've written about why conservative churches are growing and why progressive churches are failing. For example, why conservative churches are still growing, published that a couple years ago. Let's look at another one.

So I've addressed this theme over the years, the terrible failure of the secular gospel. It's another article that I wrote dealing with this. Let's look at another one.

Actually, it's the religious left that's dying. These are articles I've written over a period of years. Let's look at another one.

I think there may be more. Anyway, I have cited these things for years because it is the gospel that is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, first the Jew then the Gentile, Romans 1 16. It is the truthful and fearless proclamation of God's word that changes lives.

It is the uncompromised holding to his truths with compassion, with mercy, with wisdom, with grace. Yes, but holding to his word and living it out, that is what will draw adherence. Around the world, the churches that are really growing, and I mean with serious committed people, I don't mean just with church goers who are going to have their ears tickled. There's always going to be a certain level of attraction, but I mean serious people, serious disciples going through the fire, holding on, taking a stand, living out their faith, going against the grain of a secular world. The churches around the world that are growing, that are prospering, be it house church movements, be it Lord's gatherings, they are the ones that hold to the fundamental truths of the Bible and haven't changed with the times that still preach what the Bible says about marriage, about sexuality, about purity, about holiness, about salvation.

Those are the ones that have the blessing of God, and without the blessing of God you cannot produce true disciples. Now think of it, let's come at it just from a philosophical angle from a moment. If you are not really sure about the principles that you promote, and when you promote them you make it clear that there's a lot of ambiguity here, and they're open to interpretation, and you may see things differently than I see them, that's the presentation, well you're not going to get people to die for that. You're going to get people to sell everything and follow. You're not going to be uncertain and produce a certain commitment.

That's not going to happen. Instead, when you are absolutely sure, I don't mean just by being dogmatic, by being stubborn, there are plenty of dogmatic, stubborn people, and they preach dead religion, they're religious hypocrites, they're legalists, they bash you over the head with the Bible and don't bring the life-giving message of scripture, and don't bring you into an encounter with God, and don't present the real Jesus. They may be dogmatic and certain, but they're not bringing life, they drive people away rather than draw people to. But when you are holding without apology to the truths of scripture, you are backed by the Holy Spirit, you are bringing people into a real relationship with Jesus, they'll leave everything for that. The pearl of great price is still the pearl of great price.

The treasure hidden in the field, I'm talking about the parables of Jesus, is still the treasure hidden in a field. What happened to me December 17th of 1971, after weeks of being convicted of sin in my life, rebellion and ugly behavior towards my parents and friends and others and towards God, after being under divine conviction for for weeks and weeks and weeks, and then encountering the love of God through the joy of the Lord, recognizing His goodness and my badness, recognizing His incredible love towards me, right then and there, I said, God, I will never put a needle in my arm again. And from that moment on, I was free.

Never put a needle in my arm again. Two days after that, realizing that any drug use was wrong, I said, God, I'll never get high again. And it wasn't just, okay, I have, it's hard, I know it's hard, but I'm going to try harder. And there are areas in life, you're doing a workout, just push through and persevere or working on a research project, you just got to push through and persevere.

A long day at work, you push through and persevere. But when it comes to encountering God, I was changed. I encountered His love. I encountered His goodness. And through conviction of sin, I encountered some of His holiness. And when I met Him, all I wanted to do is follow Him. The thing that had been a mountain, the idea of saying, I'll never put a needle in my arm again, and realizing that this may be a complete forsaking of everything I've been doing these last two years, you know, teen years, that's a lot of time, and being a rock star and a drummer and all the silly things I was expecting, it was completely immaterial.

It was completely immaterial. All the things that had consumed my life up to that point. And remember, I did drugs because I wanted to, because I enjoy doing drugs. I lived the lifestyle I did because I enjoyed it because of rebellion and sin.

I was experiencing the temporary pleasures of the flesh. The reality, the reality is, when I encountered God, I ran from that stuff, didn't want it, didn't look back, because the freedom in Jesus, the new life in Jesus was remarkable and glorious and wonderful. When people encounter God in that way, and know the certainty of that which they believe, then they will quickly abandon their old way of life.

I mean, they can choose to rebel and go in the way of sin, but those who desire God, they will quickly abandon their own way of life. The question is, Lord, what can I do? Okay, you need to leave your business, need to leave your career, you need to go in the mission field and work with poor children, and you've gone there. Yes, Lord.

Thank you, Lord, for the privilege. I mean, that's your attitude. You know, whatever it is, or you need to change course here and get a medical degree, and you're going to be a doctor, and you're going to do research and come up with a cure for cancer. What?

Okay, I was planning on being an athlete, but whatever you said, yes, sir. That's your attitude with joy because you know him and have encountered him. And it's that certainty that gives you security as well.

And that's why around the world, and even in America, the churches that are thriving, the ones that are growing, the ones that are seeing real converts and making real disciples are the ones who preach the gospel without apology. So I'll tell you what prompted me to write this latest article. We come back the other side of the break. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on today's broadcast. So I'm opening up the phone lines for any question of any kind. If you want to follow up on our conversation yesterday about why I'm sure that Donald Trump will not be restored to the presidency this year or any time before 2024, if he chooses to run again then, by all means, give me a call at 663-4-TRUTH.

Oh, just one quick word on that. Then I want to say a few more things about the failure of progressive religion and then go to your calls. There have been folks who challenged me and said, well, you don't know what's coming, so I'm going to trust the prophets. In other words, they said Trump's going to be back in this year, so I'm trusting the prophets, and you don't know what's coming, so I'm going to trust them. Well, first question is, if they've been wrong on every date they set thus far and every guarantee they gave thus far, isn't it time to question if you are believing the right people? That's number one.

Number two, who says God can't speak to me? Did that ever occur to anybody? Oh, oh, I knew for a fact, I had no question whatsoever, I knew for a fact back in December, no question whatsoever, I was 100% sure that Trump would not be restored to the presidency. That whatever happened with the elections, whether it was fraud or not, that he was not going to be serving this term. I was 100% sure.

How? What statistics did I have? No matter, no statistics. It was when I was away on a week-long prayer retreat in Texas, I knew that I knew that I knew. That's how God's often spoken to me over the years.

There's no things. I simply waited for the right time out of respect for those that were sure it was going to unfold in another way, out of respect for those who said, well, you're hurting our faith if you say anything to the contrary. I waited until I had the release from the Lord, but I was already writing articles that I was going to release after that time when I went public. And it was the day of the insurrection that that's when I felt okay, because I was going to wait for inauguration on the 24th of January. But that day of the insurrection, I knew it's time to be clear, it will not happen, it will not happen, it will not happen.

So I knew that I knew that I knew. And that's why I continue to speak with absent certainty. Putting that aside, there is no scenario in which it would happen. There is no scenario in our system in which it would happen for Trump to be restored to the presidency or reinstated to the presidency before the 2024 elections. Not to say he won't have political influence, not to say he won't run again if he has the health and vitality, not to say he couldn't win again.

Those are all possibilities, and I don't know the answer to any of those. But certain things I do know. So for those that were challenging or mocking or asking valid questions, that's the ultimate one.

I knew that I knew that I knew. Therefore, I speak accordingly. Okay, before I go to your calls, let me go back to the article that I wrote, the newest article on another example of the failure of progressive religion. And this is just based on a principle, okay? So I start the article by saying that a recent poll surveying Jewish religious affiliation in America points once again to the failure of progressive religion. So this is not just when it comes to the preaching of the gospel, but in general, this principle holds in the religious world. That's because for a religious faith to overcome the obstacles and challenges of life in the secular world, it must offer real substance and must be transferable to the next generation.

Failing that, it will quickly lose its adherence. To be sure, progressive religion is here to stay, since there will always be those who hold to a more rationalistic, humanistic version of the faith and will always be spiritual reactions against legalism, extremism, and fundamentalist hypocrisy. But as I've often pointed out with regard to Christian expression, there's a reason that conservative, biblically-based churches continue to grow, while liberal, progressive churches continue to decline.

And this is something I wrote in 2014. The truth be told, most people who are serious about spiritual things are looking to join with people of like mind, while most people who don't take God's word seriously will not take spiritual commitment seriously either. Why bother going to church if you don't believe what's being preached?

Why go to a prayer meeting or a Bible study if you're not sure any of it is real? Why make a serious commitment to church life if you've committed Christians as radical extremists? So, when it comes to Jewish expression, it's true that Reform Judaism, which is the progressive response to Orthodox Judaism beginning in Germany in the early 1800s, then brought over to the States a few decades later, it continues to have the largest number of Jewish adherents in America, but it's largely because Jews are not that religious. In other words, as a Reformed Jew, you can be nominal in your practice and skeptical in your faith, while still maintaining your Jewish identity and your sense of connectivity to your people. You can also have a religious outlet for your liberal social conscience, part of what you consider to be your Jewish prophetic calling. But with low birth rates, high intermarriage rates, and little resistance to the world's strong secular tide, Reform Judaism cannot maintain itself in a multi-generational way.

All right, let me step away from the article for a minute, give you a little history. Jews living religious lives often were marginalized by the society and then would choose to live in their own communities separated from the hostile outside world. This way they practiced their faith without persecution, and this way they're not pulled in by the temptations of the world. And often it was the outside society that segregated Jews. Well, then you have with the Emancipation, Enlightenment era in the 1700s going to the early 1800s, Jews now are more exposed to the larger world around them. And there were educated Jews that said, well, you know, our beliefs are primitive, this dietary law stuff, this idea that the Jews are the specially chosen people, or having a holy day on Saturday when the Christian world we live in has a holy day on Sunday. You know, we should reform some of our tradition, hence Reform Judaism, which begins about 200 years ago, roughly in Germany, then comes over to the States.

But as much as it was a religious faith and expression, it was still secular and nominal in other words. Did Moses write the Torah? Well, no, obviously not, we don't believe that. Is the Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh, God's inspired, well, in a different way. And, you know, should we believe the Jews are specially chosen?

Well, no, that would seem arrogant. So a lot of distinctives of Judaism, we're now out the window. And even though this has had great appeal to massive Jews in these two centuries, it's not a long-term sticking appeal because there's a high rate of intermarriage.

And kids raised Reform are not that religious, they're not that connected to their people, and it's much, there's a much better chance of them assimilating. Now, you had a reaction against Reform Judaism, which had more and more extremes in different ways and concerned other Jews. So there were traditional Jews that said, look, we can't believe what we used to believe about the Bible and our literature, that it's uniquely inspired, you know, but because we know too much now, critical scholarship has told us too much, but we still believe in the calling of the Jewish people and preserving our traditions, hence, quote, conservative Judaism.

That's what I was raised in. So conservative Judaism was trying to find an enlightened middle ground between Reform, which is liberal Judaism, and Orthodox Judaism, and then even ultra-Orthodox would be more extreme to the right. Conservative Judaism is just about dying out in America, because it's gotten more and more liberal and to the left over the years, like, well, what's the appeal to it then? If you're not sure if the traditions are secondary, if you're not calling for a vigorous and rigorous Jewish lifestyle, where's the appeal?

And then Reform Judaism continues to lose the hearings, whereas Orthodox Judaism, which is very strict and very difficult in terms of all the demands and how you have to live, and sets you even more against your culture and gets you more looked at as an outsider, that is growing in numbers. So I want to put this graphic up for you, all right? It's a graphic asking the question, will your grandchildren be Jewish?

So those who are watching will see this. I'm going to describe it otherwise. You have four columns across the top. Four columns of Jews. Secular, so that's no religious affiliation at all. Reform, that's a liberal affiliation. Conservative, liberal leaning but still trying to conserve traditions. Centrist, Orthodox, so to the right but somewhat modernized.

And then Hasidic, Yeshiva, Orthodox, so that's ultra-Orthodox, ultra-fundamentalist. So you have you have 10 people across the top and they represent each 100 people. Okay, so that represents a thousand people. So when you go down one generation because of intermarriage, because of the faith not being passed on, because of low birth rates versus high birth rates, you see the numbers starting to change quite dramatically. And then the third generation, the fourth generation, literally you have one tenth of where you started with secular, even less than that, barely a tenth, maybe a tenth with reform.

When you get over to the Hasidic, Yeshiva, or ultra-Orthodox, you can't even fit the numbers in the picture. So the way it breaks down and I've just got this, I went through the data in my book Saving a Sick America. So here's the data and I quoted my article. The chart starts with 100 Jews in each of the five categories representing a hypothetical first generation. So it's one times ten, sorry, not a thousand but a hundred. By the second generation those numbers are respectively 41, 46, 66, 163, 324. So the hundred is down to 41 in the second generation up to 324 in the second with the very religious. By the third generation the most secular only out of 100 Jews, now it's down to 17. The most religious out of 100, now it's up to 1,050. By the fourth generation the numbers are truly astounding. Seven, the hundred by the fourth generation is now down to seven people who identify as Jews. Whereas the ultra-Orthodox is up to 3,401.

This is through intermarriage, assimilation, and birth rates. Yeah, for example one of my friends ultra-Orthodox rabbi has 14 kids. When we last talked some years ago he had 10 grandkids because most of his kids are younger growing up. By now he's probably got 20 or 30 grandkids. Yeah, so this is just an interesting phenomenon but it tells me if we'll hold fast to the word, if we'll honor God with our families, if we'll pour into our children, we have a multi-generational answer to the secular society.

We do. Be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to The Line of Fire. I want to return to a question that I asked in recent days. Are we in a final apostasy, a final rebellion the likes of which Paul speaks of in 2 Thessalonians 2. I want to throw in another thought about that question but first we're going to the phones 866-348-7884. As we do on Friday and sometimes do other days of the week we're opening up the phones to any question of any kind that you'd like to ask and we will start over in Australia.

Peter, welcome to The Line of Fire. Good. Hey, Dr. Michael, how are you?

Doing very well, thank you, sir. What time is it where you are? 5.30 in the morning. All right. All good. Well, up early, thank you.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I wanted to highlight the problem of the Constitution. The Constitution, I believe, is a golden cast and it has its own doctrines that are opposed to scripture. I've got some examples.

The Met's Adminute just there. The Bible mandates a just weight and measure financial system but the Constitution mandates an unjust weight and measure financial system via legal tender laws. You have a Federal Reserve and a Treasury now printing or counterfeiting money that has no backing of any value. You're having trillions and trillions counterfeited by politicians and institutions but if you and I did that it would be called forgery. And I believe that Americans and Australians are worshipping and serving a false sense, a set of values.

So why do you say Australians also? The Westminster system. I don't believe we can serve God and the Westminster system. The Westminster system, it is said, is founded on Stephen Langton's Magna Carta at Runnymede but Moses laid out the regulation for the conduct of the king or the prime minister or president in Deuteronomy chapter 17. Moses said this is the regulations concerning the conduct of the king. He is to sit down with the priests and he is to write out the law by hand so that he wouldn't rob or plunder or bring harm.

I want to directly respond to your larger point but just one more point of clarification. Since these were God's laws to Israel and since Australia is not Israel and America is not Israel and no nation on the earth aside from Israel is Israel, do we have a right to expect the world to live by biblical principles or are you saying that for the church our highest allegiance has to be biblical principles, not the government's constitution? If anybody wants righteous and just laws, you've only got to go to the Bible. I've heard it said here in Australia and believers pray to God, oh Lord, cause parliament to give us righteous laws. And I say, well, if they want righteous laws, they've only got to go to the Bible. You know, they don't want righteous laws. They want to kill the lily, as we call it here. They want to... All right, so just to pursue this one drop further, and then I want to agree with a lot of what you said, but I want to pursue this one drop further. In the Bible you have, for example, the death penalty for violating the Sabbath or the death penalty for committing adultery or various purity laws.

Should we be keeping those today as well? It depends on the community you're in. This is the whole problem, another problem, rather, of the constitution is it has a law and order system which has destroyed justice with one hand and confused the whole population with the other. If my neighbor... Well, the whole perspective of government in America, Australia, and England is different to a biblical or natural government. The natural and biblical government is the family.

You know, you're a grandfather, you tell your kids and grandkids what is godly, ungodly, righteous, but your sphere and influence is limited to your family. Got it. All right, so yeah, sorry to cut you off. I just want to jump in and respond.

First, I appreciate the thought you've given to this and concerns that you're raising. I have met conservative Christians who, in my view, over-exalt the American constitution. I spoke with one leader who told me that he didn't put the constitution on the level of the Bible, but felt it was uniquely inspired by God and should be revered at a very high level. So in that sense, yes, there are those who make it as if Christian values equal the constitution, biblical values equal the constitution.

Now, when it comes to America, I'm no expert on Australia at all, so I'll just comment on America. I believe our constitution and founding documents are blessed in many ways. I believe that there is great wisdom that the founding fathers had, and for that wisdom I would credit God and the degree and the degree to which they looked at scriptural principles.

So there's much value there, and America has been unique in many ways in terms of the nature of its democracy. Yet, to look at the constitution as sacrosanct on the level of scripture, that's a big error. To look at it as wonderful founding documents for a nation, but everything must be tested biblically, then, yeah, I'm with you on that. Or looking to these things as a golden calf, yeah, I'm with you on that.

To say, hey, these are excellent documents, the founding fathers had lots of wisdom, even divine wisdom, there is much scriptural principle built into the logic behind many of the things, and if we'll adhere to constitutional principles, we'll do well. I do believe that, but I believe there has been over-exaltation. Now, the other thing is, I strongly oppose the idea of theonomy, that any nation should enforce biblical law on the entire nation, so that the whole nation is required to keep the Sabbath, and if they don't, there's a severe death penalty. Or the whole nation is required to live morally, and if you commit adultery, there's a death penalty. Of course, there are things that should be illegal, and there are things the law does, but theonomy is something that I stand against as well. Hey, Peter, interesting conversation, and one that's definitely of interest.

For sure, Christian nationalism, which conflates, in other words, joins together the Kingdom of God with America as one, or puts the Constitution on a level so it's almost like the Bible. Those are serious errors, indeed. Hey, thank you for the call all the way from Australia. 866-34-TRUTH.

While staying outside the U.S., we go to Steve in Ontario, Canada. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown, it's a pleasure to talk to you again. I'd like to ask you a question or two, and before I do, I'd like to preface it by saying, you know, I'm a Christian. I believe that there's one God, the triune God, Yahweh, that He is three distinct persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and with that preference, I can't help but notice in the Bible that, you know, it talks about family a lot, right, in familiar terms there, and, you know, like Father, Son, and then, you know, like about the bridegroom, you know, how the church is the bridegroom of Jesus, and stuff like that, right, being grafted in, adopted, and stuff like that, and I guess my question to you is, like, I don't know much about Greek or Hebrew language, and I see in the Bible that the Holy Spirit is referred to with a male pronoun, right, so my question to you is, like, is there ever anywhere in the Bible where the Holy Spirit is referred to with a distinctly male or distinctly female pronoun? Yeah, actually, the very first reference in Genesis 1-2, Elohim rahefet al-panayim, the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the water, or over the tahom, over the deep, that's feminine there, so actually, the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to as feminine, the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to as neutral, neuter, so there's, and just so folks understand, every word in Hebrew or Greek, just like, say, in Spanish or Italian, whether it's pen, whether it's glasses, whether it's a dog, whether it's a person, has to be either male or female, or in Greek, you also have a, right, right, so... Sorry to interrupt you, could I just ask one thing? Like, I know how certain words have feminine or male, like, they're male or female, and that has nothing to do with, like, whether it is actually male or female, that's why I was asking about the pronouns and stuff, and the reason why I ask before we get too far into it or whatever, is I had, like, a second question, like, you know how Eve was taken out of Adam, right, and to become two distinct persons, right, and they're both the same essence, they both have human nature, right, their union, right, produces offspring, right, and I was wondering if you might think that is, like, a finite physical image or, like, picture of, like, a more eternal truth of Yahweh, like, how Yahweh is an eternal Father, like, I'm never saying a heresy.

No, no, yeah, I understand, you know, tell you what, I got a break coming up, so let me answer. You could argue aspects of the Son coming forth from the Father, the Son sending the Spirit, that there are similar types of images, but no, I would not see that in that same analogous way. It's an interesting question, and you are talking about essence, and making clear you're not speaking heretically there. I wouldn't see that in terms of an eternal image in the same way, but it wouldn't surprise me if others would use similar reasoning. Obviously, you know, you've got to tread very carefully when you're addressing things like this.

It would seem that you're not speaking of the eternal nature of the Son or the Spirit. All right, stay right there. It's The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yeah, Steve, just one more comment. If you'll go to, say, John 14, 15, 16, where the Holy Spirit's referenced, there are references with pronouns with he. Again, you don't really want to read anything more into the pronouns than just the other gendered issues that we discussed, or verbal equivalents and things like that.

But yes, there are times with a he, for example, so that would somewhat undermine that type of image of which you spoke. But anyway, thank you for the call and the question. Much appreciated. Let us go to Ruben in Pacific.

No, we won't. Let's go to Angela in Alexandria, Virginia. Welcome to The Line of Fire. Good afternoon, Dr. Brown. Hey. Thank you so much for taking my call. I've set up, I had the pleasure of sitting on your tulip vacuum pencil cloth at Brownsville Assembly of God. Wonderful.

So this is indeed a pleasure. But quickly, I just wanted to, I guess, reference back to your comment, please, sir, in regards to the Lord speaking to you that, you know, basically Trump was not, basically don't even need the president, or I say, reinstate it. Yeah, and just to be clear, God's never spoken to me before an election as to who was going to win or not. Right.

And any feelings I had were just that, my own feelings. So it was after he had lost the elections, reportedly, but then we were being told there was all kinds of fraud, there were going to be court cases, and many were still prophesying that things were going to be overturned. It was then, it's like a month after the elections, I know you know that, but just to clarify for others, that I just knew it wasn't even God speaking, I just knew it, which is a way that he'll speak to me, that it wasn't going to happen, and that he wasn't going to be restored to the presidency. Got it. So back to you.

Oh, okay. So I guess you just kind of answered it, because in the past, like you said, that God had never spoken to you, and that you were that God had never spoken to you about it, whether he would win. And so, you know, this time you were sure, and so I'm thinking you just said that God had, you know, spoken to you that he wasn't going to win, but is that not what you were, I mean, that he wasn't going to be the president.

Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't, it wasn't before the election. I voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, and when I went to sleep late night election, it looked like, wow, Trump's going to do it. I remember thinking to myself, wow, the prophets were right again.

This is unbelievable, and, you know, it's incredible. And then the next morning, things had shifted dramatically, and then I thought, well, okay, look, it could turn. Maybe the courts are going to overturn something. Maybe there really is fraud.

Maybe something happened. Maybe these prophetic words are true. And I kept wondering, you know, I wondered through November because, look, God is God.

He could overturn things, you know, and there could be a surprise that happens or I just felt that that our court system would work correctly, that Trump had enough money and attorneys and others looking at this, that if there was something to be overturned, it would happen. And then I was still, I was watching things unfold in the courts, and then it was just while away praying. I just became overwhelmed with a certainty. And again, that's how I've heard the voice of the Lord many times over the years. Just, I know that I know that I know. Now, it doesn't mean anyone has to believe me.

You know what I'm saying? I never got up and tell the whole world, God told me, and you have to believe me. It's something that's how I knew. And then at the right moment, when I wanted to brace the fall of people who were sure he was going to be inaugurated, who had put all their trust in these prophetic words, when I knew that the words were false or that they weren't going to come to pass, I was praying about how to brace people's fall, how to help people that we're now going to have a crisis of faith. And that's why I just waited for the moment when I felt the release to go ahead and say it. Otherwise, I wasn't going to say anything until the inauguration. And then when the inauguration happened, not based on, hey, I'm telling you, but based on, okay, it happened. Here are words, here are prophetic words, here are people guaranteeing that Biden will not serve a day in office, here are words guaranteeing Trump will serve eight consecutive years. So at that point, it would have been clear. But the day of the storming of the Capitol is when I felt overwhelmingly strongly on the radio to just shout out to the world, hey, it's over, it's over, it's over.

If you didn't get it up to now, please get it. Tragically, though, there are people still holding to this and there are people still prophesying it. And when you try to correct it, then you're an unbeliever, you don't believe the prophets, you're apostate.

So it shows that real deep deception, it shows things are even worse than I was realizing, which concerns me deeply. Yes, sir. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Brown. You are very welcome.

God bless you, Angela. And let's see. All right. Still got some time for another call or two.

Let's go to, we won't go there. Boy, people hanging up on me today. Hurts my feelings. Just kidding. Just kidding.

866-344-TRUTH. Before I go back to the phones, I said I was going to make another comment about speculation. Are we in the final falling away? When I talked a couple of days ago about why so many are losing their faith, my, I guess it was last week that I got into that, why so many are losing their faith, I said there are, excuse me, a bunch of things happening at the same time that are very concerning. And this is definitely a serious crisis moment where many are apostatizing. At the same time, of course, around the world, as I've been saying, the gospel is spreading and multiplying powerfully. But for sure, it is a serious time of spiritual crisis. The reason some would say, no, no, this is the final apostasy is because we've never gone this way before with the destruction of marriage and family. We've never gone this far with celebrating things that God is against. We've never gone this far with the culture embracing values that are wrong and destructive. That could lead someone to say there's no way back from that. But even if that was the case, America could be judged and it's not necessarily the end of the world.

So let's deal with the issues that we do face. That's why I wrote the book Has God Failed? If you haven't gotten it yet, you're going through struggles in your own faith or you have a friend that's lost their faith, really check out the book.

I think you'll find it super helpful. Has God failed? You're finding faith when you're not even sure God is real. But don't speculate about the final apostasy.

Instead, deal with the real falling away we're witnessing and let's come up with biblically-based answers and with encounters with God that will help people and change their lives. Okay, with that, we go back to the phones to Dixie in Baltimore, Maryland. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hi, Dr. Fowles. Thank you so much for taking my call.

You're welcome. I just want to really thank you for offering clarity to the prophetic ministry, and I have questions about how God expects us to understand and to benefit from the study of apocalyptic biblical prophecy in the Bible. I wonder, as I see it in church and we're going through the book of Daniel, I wonder how useful or what use it's supposed to have in my life because I look at how the messianic prophecies came about. It would seem that to the believers, they didn't really know how or what would happen until after it happened. They looked in the scripture and said, oh, there's the virgin birth and there's Jesus being born in Bethlehem and kind of understood it after the fact. And I wonder if the apocalyptic prophecies are going to be the same way, that we'll understand it afterwards or as it's happening, maybe.

So what would be the, I guess, the approach, a healthy approach to studying it now? Because I see a lot of people building their doctrines on assumptions they make or as to what they believe will happen. Right.

Great question. Let me first say with regard to messianic prophecy, in many ways that is true, that as things unfolded, then the scriptures became clear and there's wisdom in that. Otherwise, you're trying to manufacture it, make it happen, create certain things. And then there are other things that we know we're longing for, we're hoping for, we're praying for with regard to messianic prophecy. But as far as apocalyptic prophecy, if, let's just say the Book of Revelation and much of it speaks of the tail end of the age right before Jesus returns, to only understand that after it happens, well, it's too late to apply it then because he's returned, right? So what's really important is we understand the nature of apocalyptic literature. When someone would hear it in the ancient world, the recipients of the Book of Revelation, that got those words and the visions, how do they interpret it?

How do they understand it? And then from there, we can make sense in our world. So in other words, every generation should be able to read the Book of Revelation with profit, not just because they're trying to figure out how it all works out in their own lives, but because they understand it's speaking of the cosmic battle between good and evil, between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan, the battle, the attack on God's people, the victory out of suffering and overcoming, the ultimate triumph, that that should give us hope in any generation. So rather than trying to interpret every specific, especially in a book like Revelation, understand the larger themes that are being laid out, like some movie and the good guy winning in some apocalyptic type of battle against all these cosmic forces in the universe.

There's a lesson for us. Understand the lessons rather than each specific detail. Try to understand the force and the power of the literature and what it's conveying, and then that message speaks to us in every generation and it culminates with the return of King Jesus. I hope that helps. Check out Craig Keener's commentary on Revelation in the NIV application commentary. Craig Keener, Revelation, NIV application commentary. Another program powered by the Truth Network.