Dr. Brown Talks with Gen Z

I'm about to have a conversation with Gen Z. Michael Brown.

Hey friends, this is Michael Brown and we have an absolutely unique broadcast today. It's not just because I've got two young men with me, Gen Z, well Gen Z, Millennial, kind of borderline. Not just because of the two young men in the studio with me, but because these are the two young men who run our studio, who produce all of our videos and our daily radio broadcasts. So, we talk constantly behind the scenes, issues come up, we have our discussions, they've got their opinions, and we bounce things off each other, get perspective from different generations. So, I think you're going to find this really interesting.

I won't be taking phone calls or responding to posts on social media, so we can just give all the time to my two guests. So, Kai Bittner and Chris Morita, welcome to the line of fire. How's it going, Dr. Brown? Hey, Dr. Brown. Do it. As you get to hear your own voice, I know there's a lot going on.

The moment you've been waiting for your entire lives. Okay. So, Kai, how old are you? I am 22. 22. So, you're technically Gen Z. Yes. All right. And so, what are like the border lines for Gen Z?

I think, what is it? 1996. It ranges, I think, between 1996 and 1998. I was born in 98. Yeah. All right. 98. Okay.

And you're newly married. Correct. Yes. All right. So, a lot of Generation Zers or Millennials, they would wait for a while.

We'll see that Tennessee with Generation Zers. All right. And Chris, now you're a borderline Gen Z millennial. How old are you, Chris? I'm 24. 24.

All right. So, that's getting old, man. That's pushing it. That's pushing it.

Actually, tomorrow I turn 66. So, you guys double your age and then add another one of you and you get to about me. Were you both raised in Christian homes? Yes. Yes. Got it.

All right. And from your perspective, because you're thinking young men, you are not just on the one hand looking at the world's perspective, but then you're not just like stuck in a monastery looking at a church perspective. Kyle, we'll start with you. How do you think your generation sees things differently in terms of worldview, God, the Bible, Christianity, all that? What are fundamental ways that your generation sees things differently than older generations? Well, I feel like there are a lot of us who are raised with more of the conservative Christian background. I feel like there are a lot of us more than even the kids that are going up past us and more than even Millennials were because our parents, at least my parents were.

One is Gen X and one is just on the border of Gen X and Baby Boomer. So, there's those of us who see the world from a very conservative religious Christian standpoint where we value the Bible. We were raised in church.

I feel like a lot of us that were raised by more of the older end of Millennials, even some of the younger Gen X, they are more of the type of generation that has been raised in public schools with a lot of the perspective of being evolutionist, trusting in science and those kinds of things. It is interesting because as far as our generation goes, we, me and Chris being on the border of Gen Z and Millennials, we were raised in a time where we got the Internet on a widely accessible scale around probably at the ages of maybe 10 to 12 where we were finally able to use iPods that could get on the Internet. I mean, even my PlayStation Portable, which is a game system, could get on the Internet. It wasn't just for playing games.

It was an Internet accessible device. So, we see the world a lot of the times through the lenses we grew up with, one of those two dualities of either Christian conservative or more of the science standpoint, whatever you want to call it. But that gap has been bridged with the Internet where anyone can contact anyone else, anyone can be exposed to any set of ideas at any time. But I feel like everyone, no matter what our beliefs and backgrounds, kind of sees everything through infinite accessibility, infinite knowledge with the Internet.

Yeah, got it. It's a different world. I got my first personal computer in 1985. So, excuse me, that was ahead of the curve in terms of one of the early ones to get it and it didn't even have a hard drive in it, if you can imagine. But, you know, and then I remember when Internet, I started hearing about the Internet, it's like it's really dangerous, it's bad stuff on the Internet. And, you know, the first time emails would come and you'd get, I remember in the early days, you would subscribe and get like six hours of Internet time a month. There's some crazy thing like that.

You try to do your emails within that time and it could take hours to send and receive. And obviously, a totally different world now. But when I got saved and when I was in a secular college, the atmosphere was completely hostile to my faith.

I knew other believers in campus, but it was a secular environment for sure. But things have gotten much more intense in that direction. Now, Chris, and by the way, all three of us are drummers and we will sometimes sit and, you know, take a break between shows or something and look at some music video and analyze. Of course, these guys are analyzing it about a thousand times better than I am.

I'm thinking that's really good and they know exactly what's happening. But anyway, Chris, you recently graduated from college as a music major. What was the atmosphere like in college? How were people like me, older generation, Bible believing, followers of Jesus, how were people like us viewed in your circles in college? Well, we can start with if you had a stereotype about people that were in college and if you'd watch TV or movies that would display the college lifestyle, I would say it's pretty much fitting. A lot of kids will say college is not like that or anything.

But when you walk around campus and truly get to experience and see everything, the stereotype definitely fits. And like Kai was saying, we were all raised in a Christian conservative background. And I would say everybody I went to school with up until high school had that kind of premise and belief. But it was around that point where I was getting into the 15, 16 and then on that I started seeing a more secular view to everything. God was starting to leave the picture of a lot of individuals. And so on campus, yeah, it was hard to find Christian individuals.

And you'd find many that would say they're believers and stuff, but the lifestyle definitely didn't fit. And I don't know if just because they're young in maturity, so to speak, but being in college and I was in college for five and a half years, even through college, I saw I get completely more progressive in different ways and God was definitely leaving the picture on campus. All right, so even within your time on campus, okay, so we're not talking about my time in college, 73 to 77, or grad school, 77 to 85, but in a recent period of time, you know, five, six years before this, that you actually saw a shift on the campus?

I would definitely say so, especially with all these- In what ways? Just when the more of these political things started going on and just all these activist rights kind of movements started peaking, that I used to see in big shifts there. But yeah, I remember just having friends that would say they're believers then and then just no longer are my friends anymore, just acquaintances because they were just shifting lifestyles and I was seeing it in front of my eyes.

And then one last thing, Chris. So you're of Hispanic background. I am. And with things happening with racial tension in America, then with critical race theory and intersectionality and other things like that, were you actually seeing a shift in terms of mentality on campus or if you had been white, you'd be looked at a different way? Was that anything perceptible to you or in the classes, the curricula, these things coming up? Well, me individually, I was never treated any differently. And that's why I have a hard time trying to grab these people, these individuals' mentalities. But I did see on campus over the years how minorities just thought and would actively speak like it was nothing, that they were treated differently, whether it be by teachers, other students, just interactions, wherever it was on campus. I would say that minorities started saying that they were treated less than others. Got it.

Got it. So there was awareness, some of it for good, of course, where there was mistreatment or discrimination or unequal treatment and others it becomes exaggerated where you're just guilty for being white. So, Kai, you grew up in a church home, believing family, strong believing family. You've been a believer basically your whole life. You're a thinking person. What would you say has been the greatest challenge to your faith because you look at things widely, we have endless conversations about vaccines and things like that.

Kai's actually our resident go-to person about vaccine-related questions and conspiracies. But what would you say has been the single greatest thing that you had to work through, think through to say, hey, I'm not closing my mind off. I'm not shutting my mind to objections. But here's a serious thing I got to wrestle through. What would maybe be the biggest thing that you've worked through thus far?

Well, it's a really interesting question. For me, it's kind of a funny thing to say, but I don't necessarily feel like my faith has ever been shaken or that I've ever had to go through a big moment of testing where I'm looking at the world's views and then looking at my Christian views and how I was raised. And I'm just weighing the two options and seeing where are the flaws and what I've believed my whole life.

I never had one of those big moments where I just had to sit down and weigh those kinds of things. I always had my Christian views at heart. Those morals and values and beliefs have always just been ingrained into me in a way that couldn't be shaken.

Not that I had a huge challenge, but I did challenge myself. Instead of saying, where is my Christianity wrong or where might Christianity be wrong, a lot of people already do, I just said, how can I prove my Christianity right by looking at other religions and looking to where other people see the flaws in Christianity? If someone said, well, Christianity can't be right because this contradicts this and there's suffering in the world, all these other things, I basically looked into that and said, what does this religion say about this? Okay, how does my faith match up against that? It was more of an analytical type experience than it was a moment of making or breaking faith.

Does that make sense? So let me ask this. You had a confidence in God and in your relationship with God and the truth of what you believe that enabled you to analyze things without feeling threatened. So we've just got a minute and a half before the break, but would you attribute that to the way you were raised or just something in your own nature?

I'd say definitely both. Obviously, my parents were very, very strong in their values and morals and encouraged me in so many ways. They read the Bible every day to me.

They would pray with us. We went to church a lot. I was always able to ask questions and get answers for the hard questions I might have had.

And it's partially my personality. Once I feel and know my beliefs are true, nothing can shake them. And I did develop a relationship with God at a very, very young age through that that just ingrained it in me to where I knew him personally and it was never a question after that.

Got it, got it. So what would you tell parents raising their kids, now you haven't had your own to raise yet, but 40 seconds, what would you tell them would be the number one key thing they can do for their kids? Start them young, have the Bible, always be reading things, always if something comes up. Even if your kid is three or four or whatever, if they fall and scrape their leg, read them a Bible verse about healing or trusting that things are going to be better, things are not going to be this way in pain and everything, this is only temporary. Just always have a biblical perspective to any problem that comes up because at every age there are different problems. When you're very, very young, it's falling and scraping your leg.

When you're a teenager, it's kids around you at school who have bullying, everything else. All right, get the word in from an early age. All right, friends, we come back and ask Chris some questions about college experience. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome back to The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown with a special conversation with two young men, Generation Z and borderline Generation Z millennial, but they are the two men responsible for producing our daily radio broadcast and the videos that we put out, Kai and Chris. Before the break, we were talking about Kai, about his upbringing in the Lord and what enables him as a young man in his early 20s to be absolutely firm and solid in his faith and examine competing ideas and other things without being shaken by it.

So we talked about that foundation. Chris, you're also raised in a godly, conservative, biblically-based home. College, of course, you're bombarded with things and you're still home when you're going to school. But what would you say, Chris, were the greatest challenges that you got hit with? Was it intellectual stuff from professors? Was it the peer pressure? What was the greatest thing you had to work through in your college years? I would definitely say some of my biggest challenges with that would be just the friends and acquaintances and just dealing with them and trying to have a lifestyle on campus with those people without sacrificing my beliefs and everything. I never had any issues with my professors or anything since I was mostly in music classes.

There wasn't much room to talk about any other worldly things. I didn't have to deal with any progressive professors or people who weren't believers necessarily. But with friends and everything, it's definitely tough because every time I've ever made a choice in my life, I always have this severe conscience beating me up, whether it's a good decision or not. And every time I would tell mom, I was like, why do I always get this feeling about that I can't make this choice necessarily? And she'd say, well, that's the Holy Spirit in you, challenging you, making sure you're making the right decisions. And so that has never left me and is still with me to this day.

So whenever I was in situations in college, whether it's just going to gatherings, whether it was a party or anything and making sure I was making the right decision, I was there to be there for my friends necessarily. But I never allowed myself to creep into those ways or anything. And that conscience, if I knew, if it started like, it was like a little spidey sense or something, if I felt it, I got myself out of that situation. And Chris, what would you say then, the key things that your parents put into you that helped you to have that relationship with God where you have that sensitive conscience? Well, just similar to Kai, I was raised in very similar matters. And my mom was always pressing into me about just God and the Bible and everything. And her teachings definitely stuck with me. And like Kai would say, it's kind of hard to go into a different way or be broken because that's so engraved into you and you're so steadfast and strong in those beliefs. So I never, I definitely attest everything to my parents and what they taught me because it wasn't tough to make bad decisions because of how they raised me. And I would say my mom's a short five foot Latino woman and nothing was able to get past her and nothing to this day, nothing does. So because of my mom's strong stubbornness, even when I didn't like it, it pays off and I give everything to them because it's engraved in me and it's hard for me to make a bad decision now.

Yeah. And just to add onto that too, I'm sure you had this, Chris. One of the biggest things was my parents were biblically sound. They did the research for themselves. They had their faith tested growing up through their generations and really, you know, my parents, they were going through a tough time with their marriage at some point. And the thing that brought them back together was God and the Holy Spirit.

You know, they really dug into their Bible. So the thing for me was they were sound in their foundations. I was able to come to them with questions. And for me, and I know for a lot of other people, the biggest thing is having relevant questions answered, especially at a young age. Because if I would have come to my parents with a difficult issue, you know, when I was a teenager and they didn't have a biblical answer for it, well, I'd think, okay, if the Bible doesn't have an answer, who does? My friends, you know, some older person, you know, likely somebody who's not a Christian, and then you just go looking for answers in all the places that aren't the true place to find the answers. And so what's interesting is kind, your life, the foundation of Scripture, and then with that, a living relationship with God was critical. Holy Spirit as well, but a foundation of Scripture. Chris, it seems that with the foundation of Scripture in your life and relationship with God, there was the role of the Holy Spirit. So this is a both and thing, you know, that knowing sensitivity to the Spirit and being grounded in the Scriptures.

But let's work this out. One of the things that is considered to be the greatest sin of all is judging someone, being judgmental. And, of course, people can judge us, right?

You know, my friend Frank Turic always says, why are you judging me for judging you? But it's a difficult thing to be among friends and peers and differ with lifestyle and differ with decisions they're making and not participate without being perceived as being judgmental. So Chris, as you were talking about friends on campus and that challenge with peers and things like that, so how did you work that out that you could hold to your convictions and overcome this accusation that you're just a judgmental religious bigot? Well, first of all, I was thankful to actually have individuals who had enough respect to try to listen and take in people's differences, even if you have a religious reasoning for a lot of the reasons to not participate in a lot of activities. But I always, going back to my mother, she always said, your faith is spread kind of through your testimony and how you live it every day. She said you don't have to go actively trying to force someone to find God or everything, but by the way you interact and live your life and how you say things and by your actions, people will see that testimony through you. So even though I didn't participate in everything, I was still fortunate to have people to enjoy having me around and I didn't have to deal with so many people who would call me a bigot or such because they respected me and also how I carried out myself.

I never was aggressive or said that's not me, I never judged people. So when people were able to come to me and have conversations with me, knowing that I wouldn't judge them for having differences in beliefs. So just being a decent human being, caring for people, loving people, being genuine, that goes a long way.

And then with that, many will respect it. Kai, you've got strong views, convictions, you think things through. What do you do when people just tell you you're judgmental?

You're just bigoted, man, you're a small-minded bigot. How do you respond to that? Well, it's tough, especially I feel like my nature is to be judgmental in some way and that's my flesh. But that is also something I am very judgmental of myself. So that's something I've had to come to God about and kind of pray through, how to have beliefs, feel strongly about them and not force them onto somebody else or hold someone to a standard that's unattainable. So for me, with judgment, I never felt like I was judged by a whole lot of people necessarily.

I mean, it really depended on the situation. Because for me, I graduated high school, I didn't go to college, but I graduated high school, I worked at a restaurant, I worked at Chipotle, I worked at Guitar Center, which is a music place, and now I'm working here. So I haven't had a long life experience, but I've had a lot of different environments that I've been thrust into with a lot of different microcosms of culture and different people. So in each of those environments, there have been different challenges with people being judgmental of me, me being judgmental of other people. I don't know if there's one thing I can point to, it's hard to even get an answer out on this one, but just really praying through every situation saying, you know, God, how do I present something to somebody else without sounding like I am judging them? And how do people see me in a way that is good without making me look like I'm just some perfect Christian person?

All right, so let me follow up on that. Obviously, human beings, human beings, and their similarities with all human beings, and then of course differences, culture, age, all of that. So I'm older generation, mid-60s, if I'm interacting with a 20-year-old today, what is most important for that person? Just that I hear them out, that I'm genuine, what do they want me to be aware of? How am I going to best connect with them? What do you think, Kai?

Yeah, that's a really good question. For us, I think especially people my age, we are just transitioning into being, feeling like adults. For me, I felt mature for a lot longer than by the time I turned 18, so I've kind of already been in the boat with my parents' guidance and know it, or I already felt like I was an adult and more mature than other people early on. But for somebody like you to come to somebody like us, especially other people around us, we just want to be treated like adults, especially if we are over the age of 20-something. For me, I don't like someone looking at me and judging me because I'm 20-something and treating me like I'm a kid. So somebody your age, even 30 or 40, could come at me and look at me like a kid and talk to me like a kid or whatever.

But for us, it's literally just the respect of being able to treat someone our age and listen to us and have a conversation with us as if we were adults, whether your age or older. And to add on to that, our generation is definitely in the new season of over-sensitivities and I don't want to say this in a cruel way, but I feel like individuals naturally lack a little backbone to be told something and take it with a grain of salt. So if you were talking to anyone, young 20s or just our generation, I would definitely say don't push into their sensitivities because I feel like that's the tipping point to even get them to listen.

Give me an example, one sensitivity. I don't have a specific example, but just the moment some certain individuals just told something, they just instantly get hurt about what was said instead of just interpreting why they said it. So I don't have a good example for you, but I just know that once you tell them something they don't want to hear, it shuts off and they won't listen anymore. All right, so here's the interesting thing, putting these two perspectives, we're getting opinions perspectives from two young men.

Again, you're going to be different perspectives because they are very, very solid committed believers from solid believing families. But they have plenty of friends, people they know that don't come from that background. So on the one hand, Kai, I need to treat this person in a respectful way as if they're an adult and maybe they are adults, but even beyond their years, treat them, welcome them, respect them. But on the flip side, recognize they may be hypersensitive like little children because of the environment they've been brought up in. So it's almost like be respectful, but realize they're just some minefields. The generation they've been raised in, the environment they've been raised in, there are some more minefields to navigate. So what we could do is then judge them negatively. It will just immature because the minefields rather say, hey, they've been raised with certain environment, certain trigger points. Let's be sensitive to that.

Once you can build a relationship and establish mutual respect, then you can walk through the minefields. All right, we'll be right back. Welcome friends to The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown with a special show. Yeah, I'm always smiling, but a little bit bigger smile today because the two gentlemen that produce our daily broadcasts and our videos as well, Kai and Chris, are actually in studio with me.

So kind of running back and forth, setting things up, then coming back in as we are doing this broadcast. So not taking calls today, not interacting with you on social media. Kai is 22, newly married. Chris is 24.

So Chris is borderline Gen Z millennial, Kai at the end of Gen Z, but we're talking to them as Gen Z young people, young adults about issues, how they're raised, how they see the world, how we interact with folks in their generation. We got into something very interesting right before the break, and I want to pick up there. But first, as this is an unrehearsed, unscripted interview, I'm just going to throw something at them they're not expecting. So Kai, what has been the most enjoyable thing for you working with our ministry here and doing what you do? Oh, man, the list goes on and on and on.

I mean, everything really. The biggest thing, obviously, working here is just knowing that our work is doing really, really good things for good people. We're getting a great message out to people. We're helping people with real problems. You know, as we're doing the radio show, people call and ask hard questions that they might not get answered otherwise. Definitely being able to interact with you, Dr. Brown, on a daily basis. You know, if I have questions, I get a special little answer there whenever I want it. So, yeah, no, everything we do here is fantastic. I really feel like God's in the work here, and that's the biggest thing for me.

Awesome. Yeah, and I don't look at you guys as employees, but team members in ministry. Chris, what about you?

I would take this very personally. God put me here in the right time. In the midst of all this season we're in with everything going on in the world, I feel like I needed this the most personally. And my short time here has definitely developed my relationship with God even more. I'm learning more every day, growing closer every day. And this is what I needed because I was definitely starting to get in a slump coming out of college where there was just so much going on. You definitely have to mature fast. You have to pay bills.

You have to do things. Real life is coming at you, and then COVID hit and everything, so I'm just very thankful to be here. And like Kai said, I'm glad we get to spread the gospel, reach as many people and bring people to Christ.

But me personally, it's been the most growth I've had and that I needed. Wonderful. I'm so gratified to hear that.

Again, unscripted, so that's awesome. Another unscripted question, but so glad to have you guys and the excellence with which you do things and the way that you really seek to honor the Lord and all of it. Kai, what might be the biggest surprise for you in terms of what you've been exposed to, what you've seen doing this work here?

Oh, man. Well, when I started working here, I hadn't worked in any other type of ministry, and I didn't have a church home. So I was kind of out of the loop on a lot of the goings on of what's happening in the Christian-slash-religious world. So a couple of the big things that hit me really hard when I started working here was a lot of the anti-Semitism you see in the world today. I had no clue even existed.

In school, they teach you anti-Semitism is all World War II, Hitler stuff, and you never think about it anymore. But to see the comments and things that people hold as ideas that is widely acceptable in some groups is crazy, mind-blowing. I'd say that's probably the biggest thing. There's more, but that's a huge thing.

Got it. And, Chris, what about on your end? I would definitely say is I was very shocked to see how much of the Christian world attacks others in the Christian world. That was the biggest eye-opener to me.

I didn't realize so many. But the reason the world is the way it is today is because the Christian body itself is so quick to attack each other. It's hard to put into words. I was not ready to see how much of the Christian and the church body, how much issues it's in there. Yes, a lot of hostility, anger. It's there. And again, all the more reason that's why we do what we do and how we do what we do.

All right, so let's work this through. I want to interact with Gen Z, younger millennial people. On the one hand, I'm not looking down like, well, I'm in my mid-60s and you're just 19 or 24. No, not at all.

That thought doesn't occur to me. In fact, I spent a good part of my life teaching young people, being with young people and loving it and enjoying it by the decade. So on the one hand, I want to treat this person respectfully and treat them as a younger adult. On the other hand, I realize that there are all these minefields that I, just in their eyes, I'm like this white, privileged, old, conservative, political part of the stronghold of power, you know, whatever. I'm perceived certain ways.

So, Kai, how do we navigate this minefield of things that might trigger someone? I might look, oh, you're just a baby. You're just a snowflake.

That's all you are is a snowflake. So that doesn't help. On the other hand, I can't just assume that we're seeing things the same way. So what do we do?

Yeah, it's definitely a tough question, but one that needs to be addressed. I'd say it's the same for anyone of any age, but I would say it's a little easier for me than it is for you because of my age being closer to some of these people. And again, we are closer on beliefs than a lot of the people we are talking about trying to reach.

So we do have that in common. So the way I try to reach people and the way I think anyone can from any group or if you're a Christian, this is how I get through to people or have gotten through to people. You listen to them first. I think that's the biggest thing is they need to be listened to. It doesn't matter what they're talking about, what kind of crazy stuff is coming out of their mouth.

I had to learn to just be quiet before I even ask questions and break things down or try to give my point of view is just listening to everything they have to say and then whatever you're talking to them about once they've gotten everything out, that's when you start to ask questions. And not even trying to make a point with it. Well, doesn't Christianity answer this? No, not that kind of question, but a kind of question that's like, okay, if you feel like being LGBT is something that is great and to be celebrated, why do you feel that way? I could say, oh, it's a special kind of love that isn't like being a straight cisgender, whatever.

Well, you say, okay, what's different about it? How did you come to believe this? How were you exposed to it? You just get to know them as a person to develop a relationship. And then through a lot of those things, you start to see the cracks in their logic or the flaws, the things they're missing in their life that led them to these conclusions, that brought them to these answers that they found for themselves. And you start to ask things that challenge them and not even giving answers yet, just asking more and more questions. And they will start to ask you questions at some point. And when they start to ask you questions, that's kind of when is the perfect time for you to give that bridge to your point of view and perspective.

Right. So similar to what you do with anyone where you want to build a relationship and gain the right to give your viewers speaking to their life, but perhaps just recognizing there are going to be more barriers, more trigger points, more things to overcome with this younger generation. Chris, do you find that with these points that you brought up yourself, the sensitivities, that these things have been carefully thought through by this younger generation or that they more have talking points and kind of like sound bites, and it's not something processed and thought through?

In other words, if I start asking those deeper questions, that there won't really be answers? Or do you think that these younger people have really thought the issues through and come to these conclusions on their own? I wouldn't say they gave this much thought. You might find some individuals that are set on what they're saying, but it's mostly all emotional response to it.

It's never a logical thought out reasoning for why they're doing what they're doing or believing what they believe in. It's definitely, like you said, a little sound bite. It's, yeah, I wouldn't say it's thought out. So, do we challenge a sound bite with a sound bite? Do we challenge a sound bite with, explain that to me? Or, like Kai was saying, kind of an innocent, honest question.

So, just unpack that for me. What does that actually mean? What's the best way to do it without driving the person away? I like what Kai said was having them talk until you can start adding little wedges in there that they start showing the cracks in their logic. I've learned how to talk more with people just by watching how you debate. I realize that both people listen to each other, then you give rebuttals. But in that process, it's not, you even said it to me once, it's not how much you know your point, it's how much you know the other person's point.

Exactly. When you're going to interact with someone, you already have an idea of how they're going to be acting and talking to you. It's good to know their side, that way you can start breaking down those reasons and actually leading them to, like, the answers that they will give them clarity, even if it answers their question or our question. Those wedges you can put in people's cracks in logic, I would say that's definitely how you would go about it. Get to know their perspective more and it's not, oh, I know my way, this is why I'm doing this, blah, blah, blah. That's where you start coming across stubborn and you shut someone off. But when you know their point, you can really start breaking that down.

I think that's really crucial. Yeah, and I think, too, is just going back to the question you asked, Dr. Brown, about whether people had really thought these things through. Again, I agree with Chris. I don't think a lot of the people our age have thought these things through. There are a handful of individuals who are more intellectual in that way. But even if they haven't actually thought it through, I can promise you every one of them thinks they have thought it through. And the logic in their mind makes perfect sense, even if it is just an emotional response, as we often see. So I think that's a big point of even if it is coming across just as an emotional response, you have to treat them as if their emotional response is logical to the point where you can question it. All right. Go ahead.

But you can also use this, for example. Kai and I, we're raised in households that were steadfast in what we believe in. So we have a strong faith in God, and it's kind of hard to shake that. You can put that same situation onto those individuals that they grew up in the life of technology and stuff, and since they grew up in that way and never saw anywhere else, or their households weren't Christian or Godly led, then you get that same environment where that's all they know.

They're brainwashed to that matter, and that's why they think they know where their logic comes from, but it's also just because it's been engraved the whole time. Got it. Right. So there's the good brainwashing and the bad brainwashing. There's indoctrinating kids with beautiful, wonderful principles and truths and things that'll make them better human beings and indoctrinating them with human opinions that are destructive. All right. So let's pull this one little soundbite out that you have to deal with people's emotional responses as if they were intellectually thought through. Because if I respond with my own emotional response, then everybody just gets angrier, turned off. So in other words, Kai, if we're talking about same-sex, quote, marriage, and I'm just some religious figure who doesn't believe in it, and they say, well, love wins.

Love wins. So the first thing is I want to ask them, explain, unpack that for me. What does it mean?

Right? And then I want to ask them, so are there any boundaries? I'm just asking to understand. And then hopefully get them to understand.

At a certain point, they're going to put some boundary up, theoretically. And then maybe can you understand why I put mine up here? So 45 seconds. Love wins. Love wins, man. That's why everyone should be able to marry the one they want to marry. What's your first comeback? Oh, well, that's hard.

It depends on how well I know the person. But I mean, I basically come with, you know what, love does win. If we look at Jesus, the love he gave to us, that's the love I'm talking about.

And if we can get rid of all the other love in the world right now, just forget about marriage, forget about same-sex, heterosexual, different, you know, whatever. Let's look at Jesus' love and how that is shown to us as Jesus and the church. And then you go from that and you basically say, OK, this is what is what love is, is what Jesus says love is. And this is what the Bible also Jesus' word says love is. And that's where you get into your points.

That's like an evangelist there. Point back to the cross. All right. We'll be right back. So after many a broadcast here at the Line of Fire, I'll go to the room adjoining mine here immediately to my left.

We've got our window there. We can see each other than communicating each other by screen. I chat with our team, Kai and Chris, that produce all of our shows, put out our videos online, and we'll talk about maybe a call or an issue and just chat a little bit more. Interestingly, during the breaks here on today's broadcast, we're talking further. If you're just tuning in, I'm sitting with two young men, Kai, 22, Chris, 24, Kai, newly married.

And they are production team doing our daily shows, putting all the clips up, you know, putting the graphics, putting things together for our YouTube channel. And, you know, one of these days we just need to sit down and continue our conversation online for everyone else to witness here, just to join in. Because some of you listening, our number one demographic group actually is probably folks 25 to 34. So we reach a lot of younger people there. You know, I'm about to turn 66. But then we've got plenty from 18 up to 25 and then all the way up, you know, folks much older than me.

But we're always talking about younger generation reaching them. And, Chris, you said that being here working in the ministry has challenged you and encouraged you to dig deeper into the Word yourself. From other Christian young people that, you know, your peers, how strong are they in the Word?

I would put it very low, honestly. I truly believe that those individuals believe in God and are starting to develop a relationship. But to say digging into the Word, that's tough. Because I can admit it's tough for me to dig into the Word as much as I want to. And, yeah, no, it's definitely an ongoing growth to dig into the Word more.

Because as you start developing a relationship with God, you want to know more and to know what He's offering, what He's saying. And the Word supplies a lot of that. And it's very hard to equip yourself with all the material you want to know with everything that goes on in the world.

Right. So a ton of distractions. And then the fact that there's not a lot of solid doctrinal and deep preaching and teaching in a lot of our churches, a lot of superficial kind of spectator Christianity where people are really not discipled. So it's the way young people were raised and then the distractions. So there's a tremendous amount of biblical illiteracy, which is one of the biggest issues in the church. Kai, what about your peers in terms of what you perceive of their knowledge of Scripture and being grounded in biblical truths?

As Chris said, very low oftentimes. I feel like for me, I was digging deep into a lot of apologetic material, watching different people's videos and things online. I actually got more from a lot of that than I did from any kind of church I went to growing up as far as questions and answers.

And I'm a very logical person. So I kind of went through that of getting those kinds of bigger question answers, very intellectual type process. I feel like a lot of people just didn't do that either because they weren't exposed to it or they just kind of thought church was enough. And what's really sad about that is a lot of those people did fall away or I see are kind of living a shallow kind of empty shell of what a Christian life should look like. And I feel it's because a lot of that foundation is lacking. And that's hard to say where that all stems from. But just as a general answer, I think the biblical foundation for a lot of these kids my age are pretty shallow.

Yeah. So again, you're confirming what polls would say and what we've widely experienced. And I don't lay that primarily on the younger generation. I lay it primarily on the older generation that raised them.

And because you can see the impact of being raised in godly homes that it's had on these two young men. So in the time we have left, let's switch over to the larger subject of navigating the world of media and social media. So when I was growing up, we did have telephones, you know, rotary phones and you dialed each number and they were, you know, plugged into a certain place on the wall. We had radio. We had TV, which had, you know, a number of stations. I remember when it went from black and white to color.

But you had, I don't know, like six or seven stations you could pick from and that was it. So we didn't have cell phones. We didn't have smartphones. We didn't have internet.

I mean, none of this was conceivable. Now you could literally be locked in a closet just with your cell phone. And if you had battery power, you could watch any movie. You could download pornography. You could talk to people all around the world.

You could be entertained literally 24 seven, locked in a closet just with a cell phone. And then what's available, a wide range of obviously good stuff, but a lot of destructive, polluting stuff. Kai, what would you say are the most important keys for navigating today's world, social media, media from the distractions to the negative stuff that's available, navigating that without compromising your faith, or do you just have to shut it all off, have no connection with the outside world just to develop your faith? Well, it's a very, very difficult question and one I wish I had all the answers to.

I think it's different for everyone. But my biggest thing is definitely limiting certain things. So I don't actually use social media a whole lot personally. I think as a rule, social media is more of a bad thing if you use it often enough.

I use it to loosely keep in touch with certain people, stay updated on products from certain companies, etc. But so many people just become absorbed into the endlessly scrolling, looking at all kinds of random things that aren't going to benefit them, just wasting time. And it's these things, these apps and everything are designed to waste your time, to take your time because that time goes directly into ads for every ad you see on Facebook, every ad you see on Instagram.

That's where the real money is going. Your attention is worth something to them. So the goal of social media, it is to make money off of you basically. Facebook, Google, their goal as companies is to make money. It's hard because it is a double-edged sword because obviously now that we do have this kind of accessibility to the internet and vast quantities of knowledge, it can be a very, very good thing.

It can be a very, very bad thing. For me, the way I try to use it, again, limiting social media but as far as the internet goes in general, I try to use the good parts to their fullest extent. And I try to stay entertained and consumed with the better sides of it and only use it for very specific purposes. So perfect example, I wanted to learn Japanese. I started learning Japanese 20-something days ago. I've been practicing it every single day, something I probably couldn't do to this extent 20 years ago. I can get on my phone, do whatever I want now. I wanted to learn photography, videography, got on the internet, learned it myself. But I mean, that time that I was spending doing that could have been spent doing any number of deplorable things on the internet. So it's, again, double-edged sword. Got it, got it.

And by the way, if you had the answers, then we put it out in the book and sell 20 million copies and change the world. These are complex things and we're all dealing with it. Those people that are in their 80s, they're processing this and dealing with it.

But the younger generation, Chris, you mentioned just raised in a certain environment. This has been the reality. This is what you're around.

This is the norm. And to live without these things is unthinkable. So what are the best principles that you've seen for your own life to navigate this? Well, since Kai and I do come from backgrounds that are hard to shake and break for me, when I approach social media, I have just, it's easy for me to pick and choose what I want to see.

And to other individuals who are new to social media, it all depends on the household as well because I was very monitored and controlled in what I could be exposed to as I grew up. And that's very crucial. And you feel that's positive.

Yes, of course. I will 100% admit it as much as it probably bothered me when I was younger. But when I see individuals now, especially the younger generation, it's very crucial, especially for any Christian parents out there right now, go ahead and be that stubborn parent or whatever, however your kid will call you or see you because that makes such a difference for the future. Because that is also what I was talking about.

Brainwash, the exposure, it just starts getting engraved and it becomes a subconscious thing before you know it. So if your little one is on some entertainment device, limit it, control it. There's settings for that.

It's not like they're blocking that fully. So it's very crucial to limit that exposure, put the barriers where you need to, and especially if it's younger kids coming to any kind of devices like that, block the stuff. Got it. All right. So some important principles there. And again, encouragement for parents to be involved and that word stubborn came up a couple of times, you got to be. In a godly way, hey, no, this is where we draw the line and we're the parents and you do it with love and firmness, but to assert that.

All right, two minutes left. Kai, is Gen Z ripe for the gospel? I'd say yes, absolutely. I mean, that's a very interesting thing to think about. I think there are so many people my age and younger or slightly older that are looking for answers and they think they've found some answers, but once they find the truth, they're going to turn into spiritual warriors, I think very, very strong spiritual warriors. With the level of steel some of these people have on their wrong convictions, if that was turned for the gospel, it would be insane. And I think there are so many people left with questions that once they have those questions answered, they will, yes, turn into spiritual warriors. Got it. Chris, your perspective.

Yeah, it's the same. Just as much as you see people will say evil is running rampant through the world, especially in America right now, and kids are just doing whatever they want, just as easily as they are led astray, you can bring them back to the gospel. And like Kai said, we have such the potential and it's not too late to turn all these younger generations to be just children of God, seeking the gospel, digging into the word and just spreading God's faith.

Yeah, and look, when I got saved in 1971 at the age of 16, you know my story, heroin shooting, I was using hippie rock drum. There was something in the 60s in that younger generation into the 70s looking for more, knowing there had to be more. Disoriented with just the goals of the American dream, young people dying in Vietnam for a war that meant nothing. What are we doing? There was a spiritual search. There must be more, looking for a better world. And of course, that's why so many came to faith when they heard the gospel. The same today, we look at the social justice wars, rather than just looking at the bad, say, okay, what are they after? What are they looking for? Even the Marxist idea, the utopia, the fair and equal world that they're going to try to impose on everyone through the flesh, there's something ultimate that's only found in God. I believe this can be a time of great harvest for Generation Z.