The Prophets and the Spirit of Idolatry

You know, one thing that drove the prophets was jealousy for the glory of God, which meant they would always expose idolatry. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It's thoroughly Jewish Thursday, but our phone lines are open for any call of any kind today because we didn't take a single call yesterday. There was so much to cover on Inauguration Day, so we'll, of course, start with Jewish-related calls.

But phone lines are open 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-8-7-8-8-4 is the number to call. Did you get my emails, by the way? Do you hear from me, for example, when we're doing a special live stream like we did last night on Facebook or here's a synopsis of the new articles for the week or here's the new videos that we put out or special resource off we have or free material we have?

Do you get our emails? Well, if not, take a minute, go to AskDrBrown.org, A-S-K-D-R Brown dot org and sign up and you'll get a free mini book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah, an e-book that'll be a real good read, a real eye opener. And then for the next few days, you'll hear more about my testimony about our ministry background. I think you'll be really interested in that.

So go to the website, AskDrBrown, A-S-K-D-R Brown dot org. Now, before I take any calls today, I want to focus on a central issue of the prophets. When you read the prophetic books in the Hebrew Bible, there is a tremendous jealousy for the glory of God, a tremendous jealousy for the reputation of the Lord, a tremendous jealousy for who he is.

And therefore, there is a tremendous passion to expose idolatry and to come against idols. And the prophets often spoke with tremendous emotion because they felt the burden of the Lord. And God's heart is passionate.

There are some theologians who speak about God being impassable, not impossible, but impassable, the impassibility of God. Which means that what we think of as emotions, anger, joy, those types of things, that God does not actually experience those because if he experienced those, that he would be changing. Rather, he is always exactly the same in what we would call his emotional life, again, using human terms to speak of God. That he is always emotionally the same, but that he uses these terms like love and hate or anger or joy or grief, that he uses those for our understanding. I don't read the Bible like that. I don't relate to God like that.

I don't believe these are just terms. We are created in his image, and he, in terms of his essential nature, never changes, but there are times when he is grieved, there are times when he is angry, there are times when he is joyful, and he may experience many things, I'm sure he does, simultaneously. And again, he is not emotional. Every one of these things we speak of are absolutely, utterly perfect in him. But the prophets, like Jeremiah, would talk, for example, in the second chapter of the book, as if God was married to Israel, which spiritually he was, and Israel went out after other lovers. Israel went out and committed adultery.

So, God cares for Ezekiel 16, a very passionate picture there with God raising Israel just from being a little child, a little girl, baby girl, just left to die and raises her, and then she becomes old enough, and now God is going to join together with her. But she goes out and commits adultery. This is the imagery of idolatry.

In other words, just like a husband, every husband deeply in love with your wife, the thought of her committing adultery is unbearable, the jealousy, the anger that you'd feel, the hurt, the betrayal, all of that going on. God uses that image of Israel's idolatry as an adulterous act, and therefore the images are mixed together about Israel sinning sexually often means Israel committing spiritual adultery and following idols. And the prophets, to this day, those with a prophetic heart, are burdened for the glory of God, burdened with the holy jealousy for who he is. And when his people go and follow idols and worship idols, it burns within him, and it is now looking to those that cannot help, looking away from the one and only God who can help, and looking instead to worthless idols. Take a look with me in Jeremiah chapter 10. Jeremiah chapter 10.

And this is written again about people putting their trust in idols. So it starts off, hear the word which the Lord has spoken to you, O house of Israel. Now he's warning them, don't follow the nations, because the nations worship idols. This is what the Lord has said, thus said the Lord, do not learn to go the way of the nations, and do not be dismayed by portents in the sky.

Let the nations be dismayed by them, for the laws of the nations are delusions. For it is the work of a craftsman hand. He cuts down a tree in the forest with an axe. He adorns it with gold and silver.

He fastens it with nails and hammer, so it does not tot up. By the way, people quote this about Christmas trees. It's not about a Christmas tree. Okay, this is about trees, taking wood and making it into idols.

All right. They are like a scarecrow in a cucumber patch. They cannot speak. They have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Be not afraid of them, for they can do no harm.

Nor is it in them to do any good. All right, let's pause there for a moment. I was in India, one of my early trips there in the mid-1990s, and I was out in a small village preaching. And I was talking to the people about worshiping the unseen God, the eternal God, the God who created everything. And I went over to a tree, and I kicked the tree. And I said, it's just a tree. I kicked the tree. It doesn't say anything. I didn't hurt the tree.

It can't retaliate. I said, so please explain this. And I was using some of the imagery that's found in the book of Isaiah. And I said, so if I now cut a piece of wood out of here and carve it, now I'm going to bow down to it. And they were smiling and laughing, getting the point. But in their minds, they weren't worshiping a piece of wood.

In other words, that's the way the prophets would speak it, to expose it. But in their mind, no, it's not a piece of wood. It represents a deity, or the moment I set it apart, it is now empowered by that deity. In other words, idolatry can be very subtle. It seems so obvious from the outside.

What are you doing? Why are you bowing down in front of that statue? It's like, well, no, it's not a statue. The statue represents the God that I'm worshiping, or the God that I'm praying to.

The statue just represents a manifestation of the deity, but the deity itself has hidden it. But the prophets spoke about it as if they were bowing down to the work of their own hands, because that's what they were actually doing. All right, so go back to Jeremiah, the 10th chapter. So he now, Jeremiah now begins to praise the Lord. Mein kamocha Adonai, O Lord, there's none like you. Gadolatah, you are great.

For gadol shimcha bigfura, and your name is great in power. Who would not revere you, O king of the nations? For that is your due, since among all the wise of the nations, and among all their royalty, there is none like you. But they are both dull and foolish, their doctrine is but delusion, it is a piece of wood, silver beaten flat, that is bought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of a craftsman, the goldsmith's hands, the clothing is blue and purple, all of them are the work of skilled men. You dress the thing up, and oh, it's just, it's made by people, you can't worship that which you make. But the Lord is truly God.

He is a living God, the everlasting king. At his wrath, the earthquakes and nations cannot endure his rage. And then a fascinating verse in the book of Jeremiah, book of Jeremiah from the first verse to the last verse, first verse of chapter one to the last verse of chapter 52, it's all written in Hebrew, except for this one verse, verse 11, which is written in Aramaic.

Why? Kidna timbrun lahom, elahaya dishimaya va'arka lo avadu, yevadu me'ara u'mintechot shimaya ele. Thus shall you say to them that the gods who did not make heaven and earth perish from the earth and from under these heavens, or the gods who did not make heaven and earth will perish from the earth and from under these heavens.

And then it goes on to say it's only the Lord who made heaven and earth. Okay, so put the text away for now and ask the question, why is that verse in Aramaic? It's in Aramaic because that was what you call the lingua franca, the most common language that was used in the ancient Mideast. Just like today, the most common language used is Arabic. Of course, Hebrew now lords the use, but massively more Arabic used in that region. Well, in those days, it was Aramaic. If you wanted to speak a language that everybody could understand, you'd speak Aramaic. Just like if you're looking for one language that most people would be able to speak in terms of widespread different backgrounds, it's American English. You find more people speaking that. So this is spoken in Aramaic because Jeremiah is bringing a word to the nations. Nations, hear this.

The gods you worship are going to perish, and then there's only one true God telling Israel, don't follow the ways of the nations. Now, let me illustrate something for you politically as we're in inauguration week. When Donald Trump was president, I was looking to him to do certain things. I was hoping he would pass certain legislation. I was hoping he would take certain stands with appointing justices to the courts. I was hoping that he would do what he could as president to push back against certain things that were wrong in our country and to advocate for things that were right. Not putting my trust in a man, but looking to him to do certain things as president because I knew that he advocated for certain things that I thought were important in terms of certain policies and things like that. So when it was time to nominate Supreme Court justices and most recently Amy Coney Barrett to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg, I was hoping he would nominate her because I thought she would be a fine justice and in particular a strong pro-life justice.

And obviously that's something very dear to God's heart. Now, Joe Biden is in office. And in terms of pro-life issues, he's going to be on the other side. In terms of transgender activism, he's going to be on the other side. In terms of other issues where he falls with Israel and things we shall see. But I'm not looking to him to do any of these things. I'm praying for him and I will stand against what I believe is wrong, just like with Donald Trump. He's a human being, so he's going to be good and bad.

Same with Joe Biden, good and bad. But I have this sense of, okay, I can't look to a man through this. I just have to look to God. And there's a very subtle thing where we look to other people, other things, other entities, even taking out a loan when we're trusting God for something that doesn't come through. It's often easy for us to put our trust in someone else, something else other than God alone. And when we do it in a way where we put all our eggs in their basket, that's when it becomes idolatrous. So it's an interesting thing.

It can be subtle, but then it can be very dangerous. All right, we'll be back. Take your calls and much more. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. Before I go to the calls, I wrote a very, very important article calling for prophetic accountability. I wrote it with a tremendous burden. I actually wrote it last week, January 14th. And I waited, of course, until today to release it. So it was the day after inauguration. And then I incorporated an anecdote from yesterday into the article.

But otherwise, the article itself I wrote a week ago, I wrote it under tremendous burden, really gripped with a call for prophetic accountability, especially for those that want to keep pushing the narrative. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait and see, wait and see. No, no, you don't know what's going to happen. No, there's still time.

Well, no, it's going to be a few months. And it's really an urgent word. It's very, very important. Please read it and share it widely. It's on my website, AskDrBrown.org.

It's up on stream.org. It will be on other websites as well, a strong appeal to those who prophesied Trump's reelection. And some people were looking to Trump's reelection the same way they look to Christ's resurrection. In other words, against all hope, it's going to happen and watch and watch and watch. And of course, it didn't happen. And many of us knew for some time it wasn't going to happen.

And what I find very painful now for the body, because I'm concerned about the sheep and I'm concerned about the Lord's reputation. What I find very painful is that, number one, there are many people who say, well, don't say a word till this, wait till the 20th, just wait till the 20th and let's see what happens. Okay. So we wait till the 20th, the 20th comes and goes. You know what they're saying? Now, I don't want to hear from you.

You've got nothing to say to me. It's like, well, hang on. You said wait till the 20th and then the 20th. Many people saying, Brown, you have to do a lot of apologizing. One guy said to me, when Trump is inaugurated on the 20th, will you get out of ministry for a year and go on an apology tour? I said, you bet.

You bet. Because I knew for a fact it was not going to happen. There was no ambiguity or question in that.

So I waited for the 20th and then said, hey, let's move on now. The conspiracies, the theory is it's not true. It's not true. There was never going to be a military coup. The military was not waiting to arrest Biden and Pence. There's not a secret plan with the president to come into office.

I'm not gloating. I'm saying this out of love. It was never true. I'm reading articles now from followers of QAnon saying we all got played. Yes.

Yes. The thing was false. Well, you can kick yourself. Sometimes it's healthy to kick yourself.

How did I get so deceived? I should have known better. And then retrace your steps. Find out. Those of you who are still listening to prophetic voices saying it's not over and something's going to happen.

I assure you, I guarantee you in the sight of God, you are listening to deceptive words. I'm not talking about whether Trump can run it for office in 2024. So that's a whole separate story. We're talking about this presidency, this inauguration, this reelection, the two consecutive terms that were prophesied, the people like Kat Kerr saying there'll be eight straight years. Then after that eight years of Mike Pence, we shall see what happens with Mike Pence.

The future, may God bless him. But if you are still holding onto that, you are denying reality and listening to false words. I beg of you, step back.

You throw cold water on your face. Do that spiritually, so to say. Step back, spend quality time with God in his word. People say, oh, my spirit's telling me, well, we're human beings. We're human beings. We can have impressions and thoughts and feelings that are not God. Look, it's just like you're praying for a relative.

We've all done this. Most all of us, someone close to us, someone that we love and they're terribly sick and we pray and we pray and we pray and we really, they're going to be healed. I just know what they're going to, because we want them to be healed.

We love them. They're family members. And then they die and maybe you think, well, maybe they'll be raised from the dead. Okay, that was two years ago. They're not getting out of that grave.

When Yeshua returns, they'll get out of the grave. All right. But it's not going to happen. I know.

No, that's just what you want, what you desire. Understand that we've all been through that. I remember after my dad died suddenly of a heart attack in 1977, he was 63 years old. When he died suddenly of a heart attack and I'd have a dream and he was alive in the dream and I'd be saying, dad, I love you. Now he knew I loved him, but I didn't get to tell him I loved him right before he died because I didn't know he was about to die.

And in the dream it was so real, but then you wake up, it's like, oh, he's gone. So this is not the end of the world. This is not the end of the world. Let's be people of faith. If you could have so much faith to believe that against all odds on January 20th, Trump was still going to be inaugurated and you were holding on to that on January 19th. Turn that faith into prayer that God will work in the midst of a Biden Harris presidency where many of their goals are going to be different than ours and many of their values are going to be different than ours and things could be very destructive.

And my hope is not in the Republican party or the Democrat party. My hope is in God. But friends, let's exercise faith. Let's not be wimps carrying in fear. Let's move forward. Let's move forward. But please, I beg of you, move forward.

Don't look for another post from QAnon and know it's this. It's over. It was never going to happen. Let's move on.

I beg of you. All right. To the phones. And we'll stay on this for a moment. Let's go to Ida in Puerto Rico.

Welcome to the line of fire. Hi. How are you doing? Doing well.

Thank you. Okay. The first question you answered for me a couple minutes ago.

My second question is, okay, I was the little girl. I always, I always tell my mom, okay, I'm from another place. I always say that to her. And, and she said, Oh, she never, you know, they say that was never attention to me. You know what I mean? You understand my English?

I miss something. What, what was it that you would say to your mother? I was in my heart. Okay. I was from Israel. Yes. Okay. And she, she said, no, you, you, you Puerto Rican.

Don't, don't, don't get attention for that. And we are getting older. Two years ago, I did in my other N.A. and I got from there from Israel.

And my heart always tell me, can I supposed to belong there? Yeah. Yes. So, so here's something very interesting, Ida. There are.

This is right now, I'll tell you that, and my body start getting sick. Yeah. Yeah. So, so Ida, it's really interesting. It comes from my mother's time.

Yeah. So, so here's, what's really interesting Ida that, uh, many people of Hispanic descent do have Jewish blood. And what, what happened centuries ago was that Jews under duress and pressure converted to Catholicism. It happened in Spain, happened in Portugal, but, but, but, um, many that would be in, in Latin America today would have those roots under duress. They converted some secretly continued to practice Judaism. Others knew of their Jewish heritage and married within other Jewish families, but were outwardly Catholic and lost a lot of contact with their Jewish roots.

But I've heard of many, many in South America and central America, many, many, many, and met, met them in America as well, those of Hispanic background. And they said, we don't know why, but we were drawn as Christians to the seventh day Sabbath. And we were drawn to the biblical calendar.

And then we checked our roots and found out that, that our ancestors wrote would be called Morano. So they were called pigs because they were looked at as second class citizens by, by their fellow Catholics, but they were actually conversos. They, they were forced converts. So they, they did have Jewish descent. So this is something that is as wonderful as the follower of Yeshua, because it does connect you in that way as well with the people of Israel.

It doesn't make us higher or lower or better or worse. We are one in the Messiah, but it's fascinating to say, Hey, you have the same bloodline or a connection there, to the very disciples himself or Yeshua through, through his mother. So it's an interesting thing if God ultimately wants you in Israel, he'll, he'll open that door in order to get there.

The descent would have to be very recent in other words, you'd have to be able to prove that your mother was Jewish to, to be accepted in Israel as a citizen. But it's an interesting thing. The key is you want to keep your eyes focused on Jesus Yeshua. He's central. He's the, the one that, that has died for your sins and risen from the dead. And now explore, Lord, what does this mean?

What does this mean that this is part of my heritage? Hey, thank you for the call. 866-34-TRUTH. All right, we're going to go to our friend Manny from Brooklyn next, but we've got a break coming up. So I don't want to start the conversation now and not be able to keep it. I want to give a recommendation to those who got off track, to those who put your hope really deeply in the Trump prophecies, to those who believe some of the QAnon conspiracy.

And, and some still are. I posted on Facebook earlier, just urging people time to move on, not gloating, not I told you so, no, God forbid, but say, Hey, please, please, it's time to move on. It's time to move on. People say, no, no, no, I'm still believing. I sense in my heart. I should still believe her.

No, no, it's QAnon. There's a lot of truth and you watch and see. I can only ask you to ask God, get on your face and say, God, I just want truth. I just want truth. Help me to embrace truth. And then as you go through your own awakening of, Oh my God, how did I get so deceived and so off or put my trust in people or believe these crazy sources? It's painful, but it'll be the experience and lesson of a lifetime.

This could be the key to keep you from worse deception in the future. All right, straight to your calls when we come back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome friends to Thursday on the Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown, delighted to be with you, 866-34-TRUTH. We go back to our friend Manny in Brooklyn. Welcome to the Line of Fire.

Hi, Dr. Brown. Hey, so how are folks doing in your community now that Trump, for whom many voted, is out? Aye, aye. We're almost having tish above.

Okay, so for those who don't know, time of mourning. So there's concern about where the Biden administration will go? Well, there is some concern. I spoke to someone in my yeshiva who is actually pretty pro-Biden, which is interesting. We go back and forth once in a while. We debated it. But yeah, that will be what it will be. If you get in the more secular community, obviously the Jewish community then would be much more pro-Biden.

And in the more religious community, we'd be more pro-Trump. Yeah, so what do you want to talk about today? Last time we spoke on theology, I think we were talking about Haggai, the second chapter, and you felt that I needed to read your book, you know, Answering Jewish Objectives to Jesus, Volume 1, and see some of the argument a little bit better. So also, we had this conversation beforehand, so you ended off the conversation with a quote. I'm going to quote it to you, but now I just am a little confused about it, so maybe to clarify this point.

You said at the end of the conversation, remember, a quote, remember, this is a very specific time frame. It's the time of the dedication of the temple, right? What happened when Solomon dedicated his temple? The words filled with glory were used. Very specific. When Moses dedicated the tabernacle, filled with glory.

What happened? Something very specific. So are you saying that Haggai, the second chapter, is talking about the dedication of the temple? No, I'm talking about the language.

Yeah, thanks for asking that. In other words, when you have temple imagery, right, in the context of the dedication of the temple, and you have filled with glory that exact same phrase used in Exodus 40, and that exact same phrase used in 2 Chronicles 5, both of which talk about the manifest presence of God filling either the tabernacle or the temple to the point that Moses or the priest could not minister in it, then you have that exact same phrase used there, and the Talmudic rabbis recognize that that did not happen with the dedication of the temple, then how could God say that the glory would be greater and that he would fill that place with glory? Obviously, a future word of what he would do, right?

We both agree that fulfillment is future, right? Just like you were saying it referred to Herod beautifying the temple, and I'm saying it referred to more than that, but how could that imagery of filled with glory in association with the dedication of the temple mean something totally different and just material compared to the previous times when this is the House of God? So that was the nature of the argument, yeah. Yeah, but my question is, are you claiming that Haggai the second chapter is the time of the dedication of the temple? No, it's just speaking of that. No, no, right. It's speaking of saying, hey, look at it, and God's saying, but I'm going to fill it with glory. Okay, fine, fine. And when Jesus came to the temple, there was no real dedication there, correct? Right, right. In other words, God's saying in the future, yeah, thanks for getting clarification on that, and sorry if I wasn't pronouncing that correctly, but it's not, and sorry if I wasn't perfectly clear on it. So yeah, the point is, we both agree that there's silver and gold involved in physical beautification. Look at it, right? We fully agree. My argument is, if God says I'm going to fill it with glory, since that exact same phrase has been used twice previously, Exodus 40, 2 Chronicles 5, both regarding God's manifest presence in the temple, how could it now in the future, and when the glory is going to be greater than that of Solomon's temple, purely be material, silver and gold?

Right. And then I said that it's interesting that if you look at the Mafarshim, there have been commentators, there's debate about it, what does it mean? And they by no means universally say that it's the physical beautification. So it was so obvious you'd think that that would have been seen. Okay, so regarding other passages which you mentioned, Exodus chapter 40, or I think in one video you mentioned that someone should just do a search, fill with glory, in the Old Testament, then you'll find the term the way to find God's presence. It doesn't just say the word kavod there, it says kavod hashem, or it says kvaidai, referring to God, His glory, or kvaidi, My glory. There's always an extra word there to to signify whose glory it is, and when we look inside Haggai, Haggai doesn't make any mention of kvaidi, or kvaidai, or kvaidashem.

So maybe we should reckon maybe these are different types of kavod, and the way we know it is because you see the other terms are actually used differently. Right, so that's an argument you could give, and so you agree that when it says fill with glory, that it has a specific meaning elsewhere? Well yeah, but because it says what type of glory it is.

Okay, fine, fine. In other words, right, right, but in other words that phrase filled with glory does not occur in all other types of contexts, right? Where God says I will fill with glory, that doesn't occur in other contexts. That's all I'm saying, I'm not pushing back against your point, I'm simply saying you agree with me that when you search for that in the Tanakh, in the Hebrew Bible, that it doesn't occur all over the place, and it's a common, you know, it could just mean be rich or this or that. So your thing would be yeah, but who's glory or what kind of glory?

That's a fair question to ask. The question would be in the mind of an Israelite who has seen the glory of God in the temple, because remember this is God's house, and he says the glory is going to be greater, and I'm going to fill it with glory, could you simply have a material interpretation? No, it doesn't say my glory, right, that's a counter argument that counter missionaries have used as we've gone back and forth, but as an Israelite, was that satisfactory? That okay, it's beautiful, but where's the presence of God?

Where is the thing that marked it as the house of God in the past? Okay, well certainly you do admit that at least the opinion of, you know, glorifying the temple is definitely an interpretation of its past based on the context, and in your book you also reiterate in a footnote the same thing, right? It's not like there's necessarily a strong difficulty that we need this interpretation.

We don't really, it's not a necessity. It might be true, it might not be true, so I really would argue the burden of proof relies on you, and if there's a reasonable doubt to it, what does it prove? Right, so that's why this is part of a three-fold argument that I've used with Malachi 3 and Daniel 9. In other words, Haggai 2 raises to me a legitimate question, then when I look in the Talmudic discussion and it references all the things that were lacking from the second temple, you know, it would be like having a synagogue and you've got the ark in the front but no Torah scroll, and you say this synagogue is going to be holier than any synagogue we've had and more beautiful, and you have all this, you know, it's beautifully painted and all the, you know, gold floors, but there's no Torah scroll. It's like, excuse me, something central is missing, but no, I do not say that Haggai 2 is an indisputable prophecy that no one could possibly push back against, but rather part of a three-fold argument, and then when I look at the rabbinic commentaries, I see that it's not so simple to them either. They're debating it. Yeah, so that's a very fair observation, and I don't argue about that. So when you're talking about the rabbinic commentaries, I assume you're not just talking about the Talmud now, you're talking about perhaps from the Tugot or the Malban, which say that it might refer to the Third Temple. Right, right.

Yeah, so I mean, just for example, of course, I've got Mikrokodolot in my library, just next office across from here, but now just with the Sepharia website, you can go to Sepharia.org, right, and just click on the passage, and you've got everyone who's commented on it, and yeah, there's the debate. No, it's longer in duration. No, it was more beautiful. No, it's Third Temple. So again, if your interpretation was so self-evident and indisputable, then everyone would agree with it and see it, whereas it could be and certainly is part of it. Right, so in all fairness, look, we've talked a few times, and you know that I'm seeking to be as fair and honest as you are.

This to me is part of a three-fold argument in itself, certainly not decisive, but in the larger picture raises a significant question which I believe is answered by the Messiah's coming to the temple by the glory of God being poured out in the Spirit at Shavuot after his resurrection, and that's where I'd leave it. You know, it's a piece of the puzzle. I hear. Do you think we have time to get into Daniel 9 today? No, I've got to be fair to other calls. To be totally candid, I tried it because I love our discussion, and I think it's very helpful for others as well, because we can obviously talk privately, but I think it's helpful for others to hear us process this together as two thinking Jews that I do try to give extra time, but I want to be fair to other calls. So God willing, we continue the discussion in the future, okay?

Thanks for your time. All right, thanks for your call, Manny. All right, I'm always glad to hear from an Orthodox Jewish individual who wants to talk and have an engaging conversation.

I find it very helpful, and I appreciate his sincerity. All right, let us go to Anchorage, Alaska. Tommy, welcome to the line of fire.

Hey, Dr. Brown. Thanks so much for what you've been saying recently as a young hothead in the faith, so to speak. It's good to have elders like yourself cooling us down, so thank you for that. Yeah, keep the fire burning, but with wisdom, and that's what we're here to help with, yeah.

Amen, amen. So my question is, Paul at the end of Romans is obviously talking about Israel and expecting that the fullness of Israel will come in after the fullness of Gentiles. So in that context, he is talking about Israel like they are non-Christian Jews.

Right, Israel, hardness in part has happened to Israel. So Romans 11 25, the ones who are hardened are the ones who will be saved in Romans 11 26. So when we get to Revelation chapter 7, it talks about 144,000, which I don't take as literal, but it talks about 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes that are listed, and then after that, it talks about this fullness of every people, tongue, and nation. So it almost sounds like Israel in that context isn't ethnic Israel. It's God's people, meaning the church grafted in, kind of like the... Yeah, I actually look at it, yeah, I'm just jumping in because of a break coming.

Tommy, I look at it as two separate entities. Some scholars look at it as Israel's symbolic of the nations as a whole. I look at it again as two groups that you have during this great time of tribulation, whether it's picturing the church age or just the end of this age, that you'll have a massive harvest of Jews and a massive harvest of Gentiles. It's not so much meant to be chronological, but two things that are happening at the end of the age, the 12 times 12,000 representing the fullness of Israel, and then a multitude from every nation. So I look at it as two separate entities, just like Romans 11, 25, 26.

Revelation 7 just presented in different order there because it's not chronological. It's The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Have you ever heard Messiah has come? Oh, classic. Sacrifice Lamb. Yeah, by Lamb.

That was the name of the group. All right, 866-34-TRUTH. We go to Peter and... No, we don't. All right, let's go to Blake in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Welcome to The Line of Fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much for taking our questions today.

Really appreciate it. Are you there? Oh, hello. Hello. Go ahead. Can you hear me? Go ahead. Oh, hey, thank you.

Appreciate it. So I do have a question in regards to the Old Testament law and thinking about politics today, and specifically in regards to the system of theonomy. And so my question is, if the law of the Lord is perfect, pure, holy, etc., to what extent should we attempt to base our governmental laws on God's governing of Israel, and how does Christ's work change the application of those laws? Right, I love the way you phrased the question.

It's very specific. So the view of theonomy would basically say that because God's law is perfect, as you say, that we should do everything we can to have a society in which that is the law of the land. So I categorically differ with that. I do not want a society in which adulterers are put to death, a society in which an incorrigibly rebellious teenager is put to death, a society in which a sorcerer is put to death. That is not the society we're looking for, a society in which a Sabbath breaker is put to death, just to mention a few of things for which there is death penalty.

Those were given. It was perfect, and it was exactly right for its time, and it was a schoolmaster, a pedagogue, to bring us to the Messiah in terms of the Torah. Now that we've come to the Messiah, we're no longer under that pedagogic education. It served its purpose. In fact, Paul makes direct application of the language of Deuteronomy, purge the evil from among you, which occurs repeatedly in Deuteronomy.

He quotes that exact phrase in 1 Corinthians 5 and does not say you put the people to death. Rather, you disfellowship. So we want to learn principles from it. We want to learn principles of right and wrong. I am not looking for a society where if a man has sex with a man, that he is put to death for doing that. Obviously, we're not talking about rape and abuse of a child and implications of that. So there is a place for the death penalty, theoretically, that can be argued, the willful shedding of innocent blood. If you take a life, you forfeit your life.

We have to have a perfect legal system, though, or a legal system strong enough to guarantee that we're not putting innocent people to death. But the key thing is to learn from the principles. Our founders read widely in the law books of the day, and some of them used a lot of biblical material.

But it was the principle. And to the extent that, say, the colonies wanted to actually have penalties if you don't go to church on Sunday, you're flogged. That was then trying to set up a theocracy. And when we do that, we get in trouble. When we do that, we end up hurting innocent people and trying to force God on them, and that will never work. So we learn principles of righteousness, and we learn from New Testament principles how things are carried out, and then we make application.

And that's what we do. It was for Israel. It was for the time. We are not under the Sinai covenant.

We're under a new and better covenant. And that is my short answer to a big question. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it, Dr. Brown.

You are very welcome. I want to go to one passage. Daniel, the fourth chapter. Daniel, chapter four. And King Nebuchadnezzar loses his mind for a season, for several seasons.

And what had happened was pride entered his heart, and he thought he was the one. Look at this great Babylon that I built. So God humbles him, all right? And we have the biblical account of this.

We don't have a full parallel account in ancient Babylonian literature. But we have this account preserved in the book of Daniel. Then he comes to his senses. So let's take a look at the end of Daniel, chapter four. He comes to his senses, and he says, beginning verse 33, there and then my reason was restored to me, and my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom.

My companions and nobles sought me out. I was re-established over the kingdom, and added greatness was given to me. So now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt, and glorify the King of Heaven, all of whose works are just, and whose ways are right, and who is able to humble those who behave arrogantly. All right, let's keep going down in the verses that follow. So this is what happens to Nebuchadnezzar. And the fifth chapter we get into, and now there's judgment on the next king.

In fact, we'll do this quickly. Let's go to Daniel, chapter two. Daniel, chapter two. And when Daniel interprets King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, he then tells him, hey, there's only one God.

There's only one God. And this is the God that gave me wisdom and insight. So Nebuchadnezzar is humbled.

God called him Nebuchadnezzar, my servant. But then he went too far in his pride, and he was dealt with by God. In the 10th chapter of Isaiah, a series called the rod in God's hand, but then a series full of pride and comes under judgment. So let's scroll down to verse 22.

Daniel, chapter two. And we'll scroll down to verse 22. And it says he reveals deep and hidden things, knows what is in the darkness.

Light dwells with him. In fact, go back up a couple of verses. Just a couple of verses.

Here we go. I'll start in verse 20. Daniel spoke up and said, let the name of God be blessed forever and ever for wisdom and power is. He changes times and seasons, removes kings and installs kings. He gives the wise their wisdom and knowledge to those who know. So someone asked me on Facebook today, have I looked at the question, really studied the question in depth of God setting up removing kings or God having dominion?

And it's something I'd studied many, many years ago. We try to understand what is our responsibility? How much does God do? What does the devil do? How much authority does he have? What can he do? How much will God do without us? How much will he only do with us?

So here's what's clear. He's God, and he does what he wants. If he wants to set up one king and remove another, he does it. If he wants to raise up a heathen to do a particular thing, he's God and do whatever he wants to do. He will never contradict his nature. His sovereignty is never self-contradictory.

His sovereignty is always praiseworthy. His sovereignty is always reasonable, meaning that it is in harmony with who he is. But he, as God, can do whatever he wants to do. Now Satan has been given limited authority on this earth. Human beings have given that to him.

They worship him as the God of this world. And Satan does certain things in terms of his own manipulation. But ultimately, if God wants to overrule this or do this here in a democratic republic like we have, so we cast our vote. But if God has a particular end that he wants to bring about, then he can shift things as he desires to get who he wants in a particular person.

And in particular places, it could be for blessing, it could be for judgment. Four years ago when I wrote that Donald Trump was president by the sovereign will of God, I meant that it wasn't just a normal election where we vote and God says, hey, you get who you want for better or worse. But this is one where there seemed to be more intervention for better or worse because God had a particular purpose. There was no logical course by which Donald Trump became president, but he did.

And the same way in early 2020, there was no way Joe Biden was going to be the president, but he ends up as president. I see God's sovereign hand in that for better or for worse. So there are the dimensions of what God does, what people do, and what Satan does. Satan even makes the claim in Luke 4 to Jesus that he puts people in power, right? And to an extent, because he's the God of this age, meaning the one that people worship and follow, so he does have certain authority that people have given him and he's involved in their affairs. But God is God. God is God. So at any moment in any time and consistency in, not inconsistent, but in consistency with his will, with his nature, he does whatever he wants to do for his sovereign purposes and doesn't have to explain himself to anyone. So a normal election, I just assume that God is saying, you vote and you get what you want, because we're not a kingdom, we're the king, okay? We are a democratic republic. So under normal circumstances, when George Bush came in, when Barack Obama came in, Bill Clinton before that, just in my view, we were voting and we were getting what we voted for, whether it was good or bad, we were getting what we voted for.

And God is working through all of that. Then when I see something that is more unusual, when I see something that seems to, there's no logical explanation for it, I think something's going on here. For example, let's say that you have two teams playing, two NBA basketball teams, both fine teams, and they play really well and the better team wins most of the time, okay? Then one day you have a team playing from elementary school.

The kids are eight years old. They can barely bounce the ball. And they beat the best NBA team, in this case last year, the Los Angeles Lakers, they beat the best NBA team four straight games. You're like, something happened there. Something happened.

There's no logical explanation. I don't mean that the NBA players didn't try. They tried.

And the little kids who were up to their knees beat them at every game. And then you find out that they're from this Christian school and God promised, I'm going to work a miracle to let everyone know that I'm involved in this society. It's like, that's, to me, that's God's at work.

So I recognize there are many different elements. But God sets up kings, remove kings, that principle applies. And I believe, whether it's to bless or to judge or a combination of things, that Donald Trump was raised up and that Joe Biden was raised up.

And it behooves us to seize the moment and be God's people and find out what he's doing and why. All right. We didn't get your call today. We'll try to get to you first tomorrow. You've got questions. We've got answers on the next broadcast here. God bless.