The Launching of a Life-Changing Documentary

So what does it mean to be created in the image of God? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So what does it mean in Genesis 1 where it says that God created us in his image according to his likeness, that he created us male and female? Why is that so foundational, so important for everything else that follows in the rest of Scripture? What does it mean as a man to be created in his image, as a woman to be created in his image, as human beings to be created in his image?

How does this affect marriage, family? What does it say to LGBT activism and concerns? We're going to focus on that today as an important new documentary, really a watershed movie just released yesterday. We'll find out how many times it's been viewed so far. Churches wanted to host special viewings of it called In His Image and put out by American Family Studios. I had the privilege and joy of hosting the documentary, amazing guests, testimonies, teaching, just an incredibly rich resource. I've already heard from a mom who watched it with her 12-year-old daughter and just sent me a note saying it's absolutely amazing and impacting. So today I have the joy of bringing on the air with me first the director of the documentary In His Image and then the producer. So we're first going to speak with Kendra White.

Kendra has been involved directing and producing other faith-based movies for American Family Studios, worked on curriculum for children, animated material for children. So a real heart to impact people in a quality way and now the director of this amazing documentary. So Kendra, my joy to get to interview you this time around. Dr. Brown, it is an honor to be on your program.

Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So Kendra, how is it that you ended up doing this documentary in terms of the studio as a whole but then your involvement and how did you feel when the project was presented to you? Great question. So to be honest with you, when I was first approached about directing this project, I was intimidated and not exactly excited about taking on, I mean this is like painting a target on yourself and culture today. So it began with AFA having a lot of phone calls from individuals, parents who are struggling with these issues, individuals who feel trapped in their body and want to know what the Bible says about this. And we honestly waited and really hoped that some other ministries would provide resources on this.

And there are some great books, but we really felt like there needed to be a documentary that visually told the stories of people who had gone through this. And there's so much silence right now from churches, including a lot of mainline denominations are struggling with what the Bible really says and holding to the scriptures on this issue. So our ministry knew that this was a topic we had to address. And though I might've started reluctantly, it was neat because I really asked the Lord, I said, God, I need you to show me, what is your heart for the LGBTQ community? And I want to present your heart because there are people that are going to just immediately lump us in with the crazy Westboro Baptist people who are haters, no matter what you say.

And there are going to be people that think, oh, you should have said that a little stronger, like go get them, you know? And I said, Lord, I want your heart to be communicated. And early on the Lord led me to this passage of scripture in Luke chapter four, where Jesus, I love it. He gets up in the synagogue and pulls out the scroll of Isaiah and he says, the spirit of the Lord is on me because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for prisoners, recovery, a fight for the blind, to set the oppressed free and to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor. And then he rolled up the scroll and he's like, today, this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.

And that's what God was like. This is my heart for the LGBTQ community. If they are bound up, if they are blind, I want them to be set free.

And I want you to join with me in proclaiming the good news. So, so Kendra, as you got into the interviews, as you got into the materials, on the one hand, you see a lot of things happening in the society that are very grievous and you can watch them and almost get angry at what seems like an assault on our children and things like that. Then on the other hand, you hear the stories of individuals, those who had sex change surgery and came to regret it. Those who identified as gay and lived accordingly for years before finding freedom in the Lord.

You hear these stories. So there's different emotions that are going on and there's the activism and it's pushing a certain way. You differ with it. There's what does the Bible say? The correct theology.

Then there are the people. So how did you sort this out in your own heart? And then how do you feel it came out in the documentary itself? Yeah, there were a lot of nights when I came home to my husband and I would walk to the door and he would just be like, rough day at work. I was like, can you tell just from researching, like you said, the pain and turmoil that so many people have gone through, the madness and chaos of a society that is just completely full heartedly buying into a lie.

And there were definitely days when that would weigh on me. And one of the things I wanted to communicate through this film, I wanted the person watching this, honestly, I feel like I went on a journey making this film. I knew when I started what the Bible said about this issue, but I wouldn't necessarily feel confident to represent that or communicate that to other people.

I probably couldn't have turned to the passages that mentioned homosexuality or Matthew chapter five or the verses in Genesis. I knew in general what God's word said, but I didn't have the courage and the strength to really stand on those things. And I was very overwhelmed by everything that I saw in culture.

So one of the things that we did in the film, we use a lot of YouTube videos, we have Twitter feeds, we have news clips, we have really as the individual watching this film, I wanted you to relate to it. This is how the information is coming into us and how then do we process that? And I knew that we were going to have to base everything on the word of God. And so that's where I started my journey was I said, Lord, if I'm going to communicate to them that you have a plan of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman, and that those are different, I need to understand because culture tells me that either there are no differences or if there is a difference, then it's very cliched.

Women wear high heels and men like to shoot things. And is that what the Bible says it means to be a man? And I realized, I don't really know, I can't communicate what it means to be a woman made in the image of God.

What are those things? So I took a very careful reading of Genesis one, two, and three. And I've been a believer for over 20 years. And it blew my mind these things that I had never considered or really thought. And I had some really helpful minds like yourself and others that we asked to please help us shape our thinking.

The pastors and teachers who really sat down with me and helped me understand God's heart for those things. And so the film opens up with exactly that, going through Genesis, going through that God is the creator, that he has a right to tell us who he made us to be. And that we can honestly find the light in his plan. And that's the subtitle of the film, it's Delighting in God's Plan for Gender and Sexuality.

And started there. And then, you know, as other issues came up, we realized, you know, there's this pushback in society that they say that Christians are on the wrong side of science. And often the suicide stats on this topic are just heartbreaking.

And they're often used against believers to say see what you're doing, see what you're causing people to have to do. So I started digging into the science, some of the psychology, some of the disorders and excuses that are associated with people that have these struggles. And realized as I dug into it, that first of all, science is completely on the side of Christ. And as believers, the science actually affirms a biblical worldview, that's the healthiest and most joy-filled path that you can choose as life is the choice that God lays out for us in Genesis. And there's a lot of stats to back that up, but we knew we were going to have to go into that with the science aspect of it. And some of the rage you mentioned, there were days when, as I dug into what's really happening in these gender clinics for children, the hormone blockers, the puberty blockers that are being given to young children, there is a righteous indignation that will raise up in you when you watch this film, or it should, when you see some of the abuses that are happening. And I think that's a godly response.

So as I was feeling these things, I wanted believers to go on that journey with me. Yeah, friends, if you haven't watched yet, the movie released yesterday, it was going to release in theaters as well as online, but with COVID and all that, it was just best to release entirely online. Go to InHisImage.movie. InHisImage.movie. What does it cost to watch? Nothing. Now, you can get involved, you can do a viewing in your church, you can make a donation and get some extra resources, DVDs with hours more full interviews and things like that.

But everyone can watch for free. InHisImage.movie. Kendra, just released yesterday, do you have a report as maybe earlier today?

Yeah, go ahead. It is blowing our minds. There are over 130,000 people that have already seen this film. Come on. And we are receiving just every few minutes emails from individuals thanking us, saying, my daughter just came out, my son just came out. This is the timely need for our family.

Thank you. We have been receiving emails from pastors. Can I bring this to my church?

Yes, you can. And so the response really has been incredible. We expected a lot of negative pushback. And so far, the response that we've really seen is from a lot of people in the body of Christ who wanted this information and are are very eager to share this with people that they know who are hurting.

Yeah, and just based on what we're seeing, as we checked stats earlier and just got an update from my team, I mean, we're talking multiple tens of thousands of new views every hour. And again, as we emphasize through the movie, we're not just talking about issues, we're talking about people. And Kendra, I'm in the same situation that you are, AFA, is that every day we're hearing from people either struggling themselves or from family members saying, what do I do? Our daughter just came out. My husband believes he's trapped in the wrong body. How do we handle this?

How do we handle that? And obviously we have resources and I've written books and AFA, others have resources, but I've been telling people, go to this link and sign up to watch the movie. Someone wrote to me the other day and said, hey, a friend asked, can I recommend a book that talks about what it means to be created in the image of God? I said, here, watch this, watch this movie. So friends, we'll be back more with Kendra White in a moment in his image dot movie. You'll be blessed. You'll be informed. There's solid theology, solid science, powerful testimonies, and hope. Hope.

Yes. A lot of hope. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm speaking with Kendra White, director of the Watershed new documentary just released yesterday by American Family Studios, In His Image.

Go to inhisimage.movie for more. Kendra, I want to bring on a caller very quickly that will illustrate the urgency of this documentary. So with Kendra here with me, I want to go to Basking Ridge, New Jersey. Jeanette, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks so much for calling. Hi. Thank you, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much. I'm such a huge fan. I just wanted to ask you a question because today, Pope Francis is endorsing same-sex civil unions in this film that's titled Francesco. So it premiered today, actually, earlier today in Rome Film Festival. So I just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

Yeah. So first, let me bring Kendra in. Kendra, what do you think of the timing of this, that it's now been widely reported that Pope Francis has said, yes, we should have civil unions for same-sex couples? Obviously, the Catholic Church known for its stand on abortion, homosexuality over the decades. What do you think of the timing of all this? Oh, it just grieves, grieves, grieves my heart. I know so many faithful Catholic people that I think will also be grieved by this news. And I'm just, I'm reminded of the verse in Scripture that talks about the responsibility if you lead one of these little ones astray, and what a sad platform of influence has been misused. So, oh, it grieves me.

Yeah. So Jeanette, I haven't dug into the story yet. I haven't seen it denied from Catholic sources yet. I just saw it moments before getting on the air. But there is massive confusion in the Church in, as Kendra mentioned, mainstream denominations that have actually split over these issues. ABC News, Washington Post have been all the major outlets. Pope endorsed the same-sex civil unions for first time in documentary.

Francisco premiering at Rome Film Festival. The timing of it is just very intense that our documentary comes out yesterday. And here, if correct, you have a major statement of a completely unbiblical, unfounded, destructive statement that absolutely goes in the completely wrong direction. Because, you know, once you give any recognition, any endorsement, civil unions, then why not actual marriage? So Jeanette, thank you for raising the question. Very, very grievous, and 100% contrary to God's Word.

And obviously, I'm not Catholic, but obviously contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church through the centuries. So Kendra, when you were putting this together, and then I had the privilege of coming on as a host, and then we brainstormed together, you folks would do all the work and then bring me in to give some input and brainstorm. There are obviously different components. There are being alert to what's happening in the world around us, but obviously didn't want it to be dominated by that. But, you know, make sure people know what's happening. And then lay out solid theology, then bring in science, then personal testimonies, and weave it all together. But ultimately, as we just see now with this note about the Pope, ultimately, everything's going to start with solid theology. The personal stories, that's the most compelling.

You're going to remember those forever. You know, the individuals and their story and their background and the prayers and God's mercy and their lives. But it starts with solid theology. So how did you bring your team together, the different people that would comment, just open up these opening chapters of Genesis in an amazing way?

Well, I have the amazing privilege of working with a wonderful team here at American Family Studios. And immediately before this documentary, we just finished another documentary called The God Who Speaks. And this is all about the authority and sufficiency of Scripture. And so we had the privilege of going to Israel and filming the Dead Sea Scrolls and really built in all of our hearts with an extra level of confidence that we really can trust the Scriptures, that the Bible we hold in our hands is the Word of God.

And then if we really believe that, then what comes next with this documentary of How Then Shall We Live? And so that was something that was in all of our hearts to begin with. And we had a lot of wonderful connections through that film and brilliant minds that we had already asked. So we knew some of the individuals that were already really standing firm on the authority and sufficiency of Scripture. And so we started with some of them. Now finding the testimonies is another level of figuring out who should be a contributor because there's so much opposition, there's so much spiritual warfare on this issue, and we wanted to find testimonies of people who were solid in their faith.

And we knew the persecution that they would receive. So vetting the testimonies definitely took a lot of time. Now some of the scientific contributors, we have Dr. Michelle Critella from the American College of pediatricians. And she brought a wealth of scientific information as well as Dr. Ryan Anderson from the Heritage Foundation. And these are people that our ministry has partnered with. It seems kind of difficult to know who to put in a documentary until you look around you and you see who else is on the front lines and willing to go there.

And it's a smaller crowd than you would think. So honestly, the Lord really guided us through the process of who to be a part of this film. And just a special thank you to you, Dr. Brown. Just when we were praying about who to host this film, the question that everybody had for us was, are you going to be compassionate? And how are you going to reach out in a loving way?

Does it struggle with these issues? And I remember watching a clip of you on this program talking to a transgendered individual. And I saw in just your expression and in your heart and the words that use a switch that happened where it wasn't about winning the argument, but you saw that this individual did not know Jesus, and your tactic and your heart changed.

And I was like, that's it. This is who we need on our film, because he sees the eternal stakes in this matter. And I just I love you not only know Greek and Hebrew and we're able to add so much. I mean, y'all, we asked Dr. Brown to help us with this. We go into the Greek and Hebrew words on these, you know, what does it mean to be an abomination?

You know, the New Testament word that's translated homosexual, but it's so controversial nowadays. And Dr. Brown knows that he has debated brilliant scholars, but yet you also are so wonderful with communicating God's heart to people. And I want to thank you for that, for demonstrating to so many of us that approach. Well, I appreciate that. And folks that know me over the decades know it's God's grace that touched and changed my heart.

So it can happen with any of us. And again, especially when we look at these are people from Jesus died, loved by God. And yet there are plenty that are out and proud to say, hey, I'm living my life.

I'm happy. Don't you dare talk to me about struggling. But there are plenty of others who struggle. And more importantly, the question is, what is God saying? And Kendra, you know, obviously, any of us on the front lines and busy in ministry, we get endless requests to do things.

So I'm in the habit of having to say no to a lot of requests. But the moment yours came in and I knew this was going to be a serious investment of time and energy, I mean, massive on your end, but a serious one on my end, I didn't even have to pray about it is, of course, with joy, if you are going to undertake this, absolutely with joy. So real quick, out of what? It's about an hour and 43 minutes of rich content. How many hours of actual material? Do you have any idea of all the interviews and all the stuff you put together?

How many hours that runs to? Oh, my goodness, put it this way. There are three hours of bonus material on disc two, if you get the DVD, that we had to edit down disc two, or it wasn't going to all fit. So I mean, we have literally probably 40, 50 hours of footage that we had to sort through on these issues. And because of attention spans of individuals having to cram that down, but, but I really do encourage listeners, if this is a topic that God stirs on your heart, go to InHisImage.movie, and you can partner with us, and we'll, for a gift of any amount, we'll send you the DVD, or if it's not in your budget, just contact us, we want you to have it if you're going to share this message.

And disc two has a lot of the frequently asked questions, a lot of the practical things that churches are dealing with, and individuals and families, and there is so much more to explore on this topic than to just be covered in the feature film. Yeah, and for those that are alert to what's happening in the world around us, transgender issues have become really, really pronounced. Presidential candidate Joe Biden said in January, you know, make no mistake about it, transgender rights are the civil rights of our day.

That's how many do see it. There's an increasing phenomenon with teenage girls suddenly identifying as transgender. I mean, we're hearing from parents all the time. And in the documentary, although of course the issue of homosexuality is discussed and powerful testimony of Stephen Black is weaved in throughout, but there's a lot about transgender issues. From Walt Heyer, who will be my guest next week, who lived as a woman, had sex change surgery. Laura Perry lived as Jake for over 10 years and had various surgeries to try to make herself into a man.

Denise Schick, whose dad, when she was what, nine years old, tells her that he wants to be a woman. So there's a lot in there and folks watching will be helped. So Kendra, last minute, what's your hope for those watching this documentary? What's your hope and prayer? My hope and prayer is that the church will be strengthened and encouraged to be like bold lions and speak the truth in love on this issue. And that those that deal with problems of sexual identity will find healing and hope in the transformative power of the gospel. When they watch this film, hear the stories of others whose lives have been dramatically transformed and really are pointed to the gospel. Amen.

And friends, that's what's going to happen as you as you watch for your own edification, watch with someone struggling, hurting, InHisImage.movie. Go there. And Kendra, what a joy to work together. Hopefully we'll get to, oh, actually next week I'll come down your way. So we'll get to work together down there. We get to swap it up. We're happy here. God bless.

Thanks so much for joining us. We'll be right back with M.D. Perkins, the producer of In His Image as we take you behind the scenes today. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Well, just yesterday, In His Image, landmark documentary used by American Family Studios, just launched online when we checked, oh, I don't know, about 15 minutes ago, over 130,000 views so far. A powerful documentary that digs into the scripture, asks what it means to be created an image of God.

And then based on that divine template, looks at what's happening in the world around us, the society around us, looks at issues of homosexuality, transgenderism, looks at what God has to say and then looks at people, individuals, families who are impacted. We're not just talking issues. We're talking people. This is Michael Brown. I just spoke with Kendra White, who was the director of In His Image. Now I want to bring on M.D.

Perkins, who is the producer of In His Image and a producer at American Family Studios. And his previous project was The God Who Speaks. So welcome to The Line of Fire. Thanks for joining us today.

Thank you for having me, Dr. Brown. So tell us how the first movie, the first documentary, The God Who Speaks, tell us about that and then how that led naturally to In His Image. The God Who Speaks is a feature-length documentary about the authority and reliability of the Bible. We build the evangelical case for understanding the Scriptures to be the actual authoritative word of God. And so we look at the history of how we even got the manuscripts. What does it mean when we say the Bible is inspired?

What does it mean for the apostles to write under divine inspiration and all those kinds of things? And we bring it up and apply it to where we are today and kind of talk about the history and how all the apologetic arguments and questions and objections that people have raised over the years. We answer all of those, and we come to the conclusion that, yes, we can trust the Bible, that the Christians can trust the Bible that they hold in their hands.

And so as a ministry, American Family Association, after having made that documentary, we looked at it and we said, well, what is the next step? And the next step was really to apply this whole idea of the authority of the Bible to these particular issues of homosexuality and transgenderism. I mean, it's one thing to say that we believe the Bible is authoritative, but it's another thing to say I believe the Bible is authoritative when it speaks about marriage or it speaks about sexuality or it speaks about gender.

Of course, I mean, as you know from your own research and study, men like Matthew Vines claim that they believe in the authority of the Bible, but then they start to question it and nuance it and their understanding of it in all these other areas. So it was taking, really building on that foundation that we laid with the God who speaks, and then we move into the image and we start to apply it to these to these common controversial issues now. So in your view, would that explain why this is so foundational in Scripture?

You know, Genesis 1, God creates us in his image, human beings, the pinnacle of God's creation, and then Adam and Eve, the foundation for human life and flourishing. So that's at the foundation of all foundations. Would that explain why if you tamper those foundations, it has such a massive impact on the society? Do those things go hand in hand? I think they absolutely go hand in hand. I mean, you're talking about if God created us male and female, I mean, you're talking about fundamental biology, something that we're born with, something that my kids don't have to have it particularly explained to them.

What does it mean to be a boy or a girl? They can see the differences. They can feel the differences themselves. And then when you start to introduce this chaos narrative into someone's own thinking, I mean, it messes up everything in terms of what can you trust anymore? What can you believe?

What is really real? And so yeah, I mean, once you start tampering with those foundations, and we know those foundations, not just from our own personal experience, but we see them, like you said, laid out in the first three chapters of Genesis. And so it does introduce a lot of chaos once you start to say, well, maybe, maybe we've always gotten this wrong. Or maybe there's a new way that we as humans now can understand these things. It's different from how our grandparents understood it, or people 100 or 1,000 years ago understood it.

Yeah, and I've never used this illustration, but it just, it just strikes me now. Let's say that we were not entirely clear, while driving down the street, if a green light actually meant go, a yellow light actually meant slow down, and a red light actually meant stop. And perhaps there are different interpretations of that, or you see red, I feel green. I mean, what would happen on the roads?

You would have chaos, accidents, everything would just come to a standstill, obviously, because that's just foundational for our driving and road safety. So when you have things as basic as biology, that that becomes not really a category, because it's how I feel instead. Or saying a man being with a man is no different than a man being with a woman, you do tamper with foundations, and of course, it affects all of society. I asked Kendra the same question I want to ask you, but how did working on this documentary impact you personally?

The impact of this documentary and the research for it is just incredible. I mean, I came into this, this whole project, you know, being fairly certain about the scriptural viewpoint on gender and sexuality, feeling like I was understood the theological issues, I understood the implications, the implications, I even saw some of the issues in culture and had problems with it. But I don't know that I was deeply concerned in the same way that I am now, to see some of these issues opening up the chaotic movements within the culture. And then also the ways that these things have been infiltrated and coming into the church.

I mean, that to me was particularly disheartening and shocking, even. I mean, I'm, I'm a Presbyterian, I'm part of the PCA church, Presbyterian Church in America. And as you probably know, you've, you've heard about some of these questions of revoice, and the Revoice Conference, and the gay celibate Christian movement, and some of the implications of that. And, you know, so these are questions that are right in the midst of friends and loved ones and fellow church members that I'm with.

And many of them are completely unaware about what was going on or how to think about these things. So the whole process of having this documentary just stir within me both, you know, I love so much how you put it, Dr. Brown, this idea of reach out and resist. And that, that little phrase has served me so well and kind of clarifying in my own mind, what is the proper Christian approach? I mean, yes, we want to love and reach out and compassion, and we want to listen to the person who's hurting, who has their questions and their doubts and their struggles, but we also need to be clear on what we believe as Christians, and be able to stand firm in the shifting sands of culture. Yeah, and it's interesting for me, I was first hit with the resist part, especially in 2004, seeing what was happening in society, seeing the inroads in our schools and in so many other ways.

I knew this was there, but I got overwhelmed with it. And you know, as followers of Jesus, there's that prophetic side to us that, that wants to stand for righteousness, and that stands against things that are wrong. But I knew if I was to have God's heart, then I needed to care about people. That's one thing to look at activism in society, and that's when God really began to break my heart for the people.

And I'd sit with local gay activists and say, tell me your story, and read all the literature I could, and especially ones with stories and anecdotes, to try to feel and understand something that I never lived through myself. And that's when the Holy Spirit really birthed into my heart, reach out and resist, reach out to the people with compassion, resist the agenda with courage. I want to go back to something about the importance of Scripture. Someone posted a review the other day to my book, Can You Be Gained Christian, on Amazon, and it just came to my attention.

And in the midst of the review, it's a negative review blasting me, but the reviewer, Ken, says this, let me make a rather bold admission. The author is correct, but not necessarily right. I've read the Bible enough times to conclude that yes, homosexuality as we know it is a prohibited practice for Christians. I also know that Christianity has made so many compromises since its founding. What we know as Christian practices today would be completely alien to first century Christians. In other words, the Bible's clear, but things change.

How does this documentary help folks get their bearings, get their groundings back into the truth of Scripture? Well, the context of the culture changed, but the fundamental truth of God's Word is foundational. Like you said, it's interwoven into who we are in creation. God made us male and female, and God made us to find partnership and fulfillment and procreation within Christian marriage, male-female coming together.

The two shall become one flesh. That whole idea cannot exist. The whole human race cannot exist outside of that fundamental idea. So yeah, I mean, people love the idea of rethinking things.

It's very much in vogue these days, just kind of to kick the tires on any new idea that comes along and to think that, well, the way that I've been taught something is wrong, and it's outdated, and it doesn't last anymore, and it doesn't stand. But I think the Bible is so clear, and for Christians, we have to realize to not be embarrassed to admit that we stand on ancient truths, to not waver on that notion, because God gave us His Word, but He also told us to stand firm in it. So it's not about us feeling like we can't understand these things. They can be understood, and I think the Scriptures are clear.

So yeah, I'm not surprised to hear people push back on many of those things. It's interesting to hear someone say so honestly, confess what the Scripture teaches, and yet at the same time just miss it out of hand. That's one of the unusual things, because so many people are trying to take their own beliefs and then read them, filter them through the Scripture, and kind of nuance it that way. You know, the thing that's so interesting with all of this is that you'll have liberals, scholars, thinkers, left-wing media people, so-called progressive Christians, but they all want to quote the Bible, and they all want to say, well, actually, you're misinterpreting the Bible. And of course, a lot of people don't care about the Bible at all, but I always find it interesting to say, why is the Bible so important to you? You're attacking us for following it. You say we're following it wrong, but you're acknowledging the importance of it.

Even in telling us our views about Scripture are wrong, you're telling us that the Bible is still important. Our friends, we've got more time with MD Perkins, the producer of this amazing documentary, In His Image. Go to InHisImage.movie. You can watch it for free. Better still, make a donation.

You'll get an additional DVD with three more hours of further interviews and back story and things like that. And best thing you could do as pastor leader, do a showing in your church. Get your folks out, invite them out, and invite those with questions. Invite those who are skeptical, hostile. Invite those who are hurting.

Have them watch because they will be impacted. We'll be right back. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us. Michael Brown speaking with MD Perkins, producer of Dr. Michael just released yesterday, In His Image.

Go to InHisImage.movie. MD, I spoke with Kendra about some of the guests that shared their testimonies on the documentary and also talked about some of the folks who brought in the science. But there was a great team that your team assembled, Bible scholars, theologians, that gave tremendous insights. In fact, as I was watching it, because I obviously watched through it a bunch of times as it was being developed and then at the end, I felt there were insights I got. Or let's just say how the scripture addressed certain things and angles I hadn't seen before. So who are some of the people that you brought together for the Bible theology part of the documentary? Yeah, there were a number of people. Like the God Who Speaks was made up almost exclusively of pastors and scholars, of course, as we talked about the authority of the scripture.

There were about 24 in that documentary, but for In His Image, we wanted to scale that back and maybe pull out some extended insights. And so people like Kevin DeYoung, who's a pastor there in Charlotte, and Abe Hamilton, who is legal counsel for the American Family Association, hosts the Hamilton Corner, but he's a pastor as well. And he's just such a brilliant insight into the scripture. And Mary Castian, who is also a theologian and scholar in her own right, and has written a number of helpful books on men and women and what God's design and intention is for them within the home and the church and all those things. So having people like that to really, because we didn't want to just talk about the passages related to homosexuality. We wanted to lay the foundation in Genesis 1, 2, and 3 so that Christians could be reminded of and understand more firmly why we believe what we believe about marriage, why we believe what we believe about male and female, and then all of that leads to what we understand about sexuality. So it was important to really lay that scriptural framework in Genesis 1, 2, and 3 with scholars like those.

Yeah, and also Robert Gagnon, James White, Sean McDowell, some others that were there. It must have been an interesting task to take all of the content from these brilliant thinkers who are all communicating very clearly and with grace, and then to boil it down to the excerpts that you're going to play. So how big a project was that? Well, I mean, as many people know, if they've ever embarked on a documentary, most of the time spent making a documentary is within the post-production, that is, the editing phase. You know, you spend all this time researching and then you spend a little bit of time going and filming, and then you get two hours of an interview with somebody, but then you've got to figure out how to make this fit within the larger framework, how to juxtapose, how to maintain the sanctity and the precision of somebody's argument while also convincing it or cutting out certain parts to make it fit within what you're presenting there. So it's quite a challenge, and it takes many, many months of time and reading through transcripts and pulling things out, and then even the transcripts, you don't know if you cut off at a certain point, if it actually is a natural cutting point in somebody's line of conversation. So you've got to weigh all those things together, and then you get a brilliant scholar like James Wyatt or Robert Gagnon, and those men, you know, God bless them, they don't give short answers. So you've got to figure out how to take these huge ideas that they're presenting and be able to pull out those elements that are short enough to present in these kind of documentary clips more. So it is quite a task. Yeah, and again, I'm glad you were doing that, not me. You know, if I'm working on something, I've written a manuscript, and I get into the publisher, and they say it's too long, you have to cut material, it's like, cut? Cut material?

That's like, you know, cutting off a finger or cutting off a foot? Like, that's all important. But you know, the thing that's neat is the flow from one voice to another, and then with testimonies weaved in, with graphics weaved in, so it keeps moving, it keeps your attention. And then I really felt with each one speaking, it's like, bam, they nailed it. X boy, hit a home run on that right tone on it.

So great job of editing with the team and putting this together. Obviously, there was a preview last week that I was part of in Oklahoma City, we were there together, and now the official release just yesterday, so we're barely talking 24 hours that it's been out. What have you been hearing since last week up until now? What kind of feedback are you getting? Well, what I've experienced mostly has been just an overwhelming thanksgiving and thankfulness from Christians who just feel like they're finally able to understand how to think through some of these issues, because they're getting conflicting answers all over the place, and sadly they're even getting conflicting answers among professing Christians and evangelicals and people that they thought were solid.

Maybe they're giving vague answers, maybe they're not even engaging the subject at all. And so being able to present all of these issues in a clear way, in a compassionate way, in a compelling way, and it's something that draws back to Scripture, I've just heard, at least from four people who've directly spoken with me. I know Kendra has received a number of emails from other people even beyond this, but there's people who are so thankful and feel like they really have been strengthened and enabled to be able to speak the truth to a loved one, and to be able to understand why this issue is so important, and why they can't really waver on it, and why the Scripture does say what it says, and why Christians have historically understood these things. And so that's an encouragement to me, because for me one of the main reasons, one of the main things I've hoped that people would get out of this whole project is just to be strengthened and encouraged and enabled to be able to stand firm and reach out compassionately. And it sounds like so far that seems to be the response I'm getting.

Yeah, absolutely. That's what I've been hearing from the first folks that have viewed it and gotten back to me. And this will bless you, I got a note from a mom, I guess she's got a couple of kids, and the daughter is 12, and she watched with her daughter, because her daughter like other kids influenced by the culture and questions and things like that, but she got convicted in her own life, the mother, because she's dealt with an eating disorder over the years, and suddenly a better understanding of being created in God's image, ministered truth to her that she felt was liberating from things that had caused whatever is a negative self-image or whatever the thing was. And she said, I know that wasn't the intent of the movie, and her words were, it was amazing, the whole thing was amazing, and she knows that it impacted her daughter watching.

But to bring that in, I thought, how interesting, you never know once you lay these foundations how many couples this is going to speak to, how many single men, single women this is going to speak to, how many heterosexuals this is going to speak to in different ways. So there's a richness about God's truth that's opened up, and the whole documentary is not this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, but this is God's way, this is God's way, this is what happens when you get off the path, this happens when you get back on the path. And were you impacted hearing the testimonies with the suffering, the pain, but then the hope of transformation, did that impact you as well?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, my goodness, I've seen this movie dozens of times, and I still cry every time I hear certain parts of those testimonies, both the pain and the hurt that people went through, and then the amazing joy and lift that their lives experience when they meet the Lord, and their lives are radically transformed, and they're submitting them to the Lord by faith. I mean, that's, it's always a beautiful thing when a person comes to faith in Christ. And I love hearing those testimonies. I love hearing Laura Perry's testimony of how, you know, through her relationship with her mother, and her mother going through this own spiritual renewal in her own heart and mind, and through God's providence, and in her working with Laura, just on a website, seemingly innocuous, seemingly something else, and yet spiritual truth was coming to her and impacting her.

And so you never know what God will use. And so to me, there's just such great joy in hearing that. There's also so much hope that this isn't, people aren't locked forever in this hopeless situation. But there really is hope, there really is transformation, that God is at work in this world. And so I hope that Christians also take that message out of this movie, that the Lord is at work in our lives, in our world right now, even though things seem dire, even though the cultural situation is so crazy, and just seems to be mounting up pressure and pressure against Christians. Like, there's still, the Holy Spirit is at work in our midst, and we should not negate that. In fact, we should pray for greater and greater manifestations and outpouring of God's Spirit in these ways, in people like this.

Yeah, absolutely. And as you mentioned, Laura Perry, her mom being kind of a legalistic Christian that really encounters God's love in her own life, dealing with a daughter who identifies as Jake, and then sitting next to Laura for the panel discussion after the preview last week, and thinking, okay, she's open about this in the documentary, how she had a mastectomy, how she had a hysterectomy, she wanted to feel more like a man and be more male, and think, wow, look at everything she's lived through, and now she's sitting there with that great smile, with a great story of hope. And you've got a ladies' Bible study, older ladies, praying for her, and their love for her was a key thing that carried her through.

Not a theologian, not someone that knew everything, but people that knew God and knew how to pray. So friends, go there now, inhisimage.movie. Share this with everyone you know. Pastors, get this out to your entire congregations, inhisimage.movie. MD and team, thank you for this labor of love, for all your hard work, and making this available to the body. We appreciate it. Our friends, you know where to go, inhisimage.movie. Back with you tomorrow.