Sergeant York

This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast. We are killing it online. Tune into The Drive weekday afternoons 3 to 7 on WSJS. So glad to have you on this Monday Drive. WSJS News Talk Sports for the Triad, where we've got so much to do today. It's NFL Combine Week. North Carolina has the quick turnaround at Florida State tonight, plus a lot of Deacons. We have Wake Virginia tickets to give away for Wednesday nights. The head coach of the Deacs, Steve Forbes, will be our guest at 5.30.

And let's actually start with his team. For the second time in three games, Wake Forest melted down in the final stages against a team it should have beaten. This time it was NC State, it was in Raleigh, 85-73 the final, and with four games remaining in the regular season, the Deacs NCAA tournament picture is picture clear. If you want to ensure you make the dance for the first time since 2017, you've got to beat Duke.

Now, listen to that again. This isn't to say that Wake can't make the NCAA tournament without beating Duke. It's just that the goal going into the year was to get off the bubble and enter Selection Sunday knowing that you were in. Well, the only way that happens now is if you beat the Blue Devils. Otherwise, you're going to be sweating it out. Selection Sunday. You're going to be sitting there and if you win the three remaining regular season games, not named Duke, win a game in Charlotte, it's a 50-50 coin toss. You might sneak in, you might not. It's going to be razor thin and it's really hard to project at that point.

You kind of deserve whatever you get when you're in that position. A week from tonight, the Deacons will visit Cameron Indoor Stadium. Sure, Wake hasn't beaten Duke there since 1997, but what doesn't get talked about enough is just how close that they've come lately. The last three matchups between these teams in Durham have been decided by eight points or fewer. Two of the last three by two points apiece. In fact, Steve's largest margin of defeat at Cameron was by 11 his first year there.

So he doesn't get blown out at Cameron. Heck, even before that, Danny Manning's last years. Zion didn't play in the game on Senior Day, but Wake had two cracks at it at the buzzer to win the game and missed both Chondi Brown and Isaiah Musias. They've had some close calls. Who's to say that this won't be a close call as well? Easy to look at what Duke did against Illinois Saturday and have your doubts.

Understand that. So if Wake doesn't win next Monday, what does that mean? You've got to secure the double bye in Charlotte.

That's the most important thing. Even more important than beating Duke a week from tonight is getting the double bye in Charlotte. And the good news is if you take care of your business in the three home games against Quad 3 opponents, Virginia Wednesday night, Notre Dame this weekend, and Georgia Tech in the regular season finale, you're going to be locked in as that number four seed not playing any sooner than Thursday a couple weeks from now. Here with Steve Forbes after the loss against NC State on the importance of the double bye for Wake. Our biggest thing out in front of us is winning the next game in front of us and getting the double bye in the ACC tournament. It's not anything to do with the NCAA tournament. If you take care of those things, then, you know, at some point those things can take care of itself.

Agreed. And one of the things it would take care of if you get the double bye, you would earn yourself another opportunity with Duke in all likelihood. So the way that the bracket looks in the ACC tournament, the four seed plays the winner of the one seeds first game on Thursday, Friday night in the semifinals. So if Wake doesn't play till Thursday wins their first game in the ACC tournament, you've earned yourself likely a date with Duke and you get one more shot at them on a neutral court. And again, another chance at that Willy Wonka-esque golden ticket that Duke is. If you beat them, you're a tournament team. Look what it did to Clemson's perception. Clemson's up to number 13 in the poll. Do you think they would be there if they didn't win at Little John against Duke?

OK. They would not. They are the golden ticket, whether it's next week in Durham or if it's in the ACC tournament in Charlotte. And if you're not the double bye team, that number four seed, then you have to win two games just to get to that game while Duke will be a lot more rested having played just one game and you really put yourself at a disadvantage. So give yourself a shot, a second shot at Duke and a reasonable shot at beating them by getting that double bye. Despite what we saw in Raleigh and what Duke did to Illinois, you should not count out the Deacs yet. Other than Clemson, nobody in the ACC has played Duke tougher than the Deacs have.

You could make the argument they should have won that game at the Joel last month, should have won the game. They were up in the second half, 45 to 39. Duke was collapsing, weren't hitting shots. They went into that zone that gave Wake problems, allowed for them to pick up their game offensively. Mason Gillis hits a big shot at the end and Wake ends up losing by seven in a game they missed eight free throws. They missed that opportunity. But with a couple more cracks at it, you don't think Wake can get one of them?

That is the ticket for Wake to get off the bubble and be in the NCAA tournament for the first time since John Collins sophomore year in 2017. OnX at WSJS radio if you want in. That's where we're streaming video in addition to YouTube, Twitch, at Josh Graham show onX as well.

WD, Will Dalton, the executive producer of this show. Remind the people who you watched in Chapel Hill this weekend. I saw Virginia play. Did that. In Chapel Hill, Virginia loses.

We have tickets for Virginia that we'll give away a little bit later on. Yes, that's what I was looking for there. We're not going to talk a lot about that game though. No, but I'll tell you the one thing that I took away from it. So you got the Scooby Doo meme where the villain's in the chair and they pull the mask off and it's somebody else. Yes. So Jalen Withers is in the chair and when they take the mask off, it's Brady Manick. I think we might be looking at that type of situation.

Friend of the show, Jalen Withers, who followed me onX in the last 24 hours. Good for him. The reason we're not going to talk a lot about that game is because they have a game tonight. Here's where I stand. Why I'm not going to clown you yet for that ridiculous comment, even though Jalen had a big game against Virginia 17 and 11. If North Carolina wins tonight at Florida State, then it's time to take them seriously.

Then you could start to make those comps if Jalen has a big game. But we are not to do that until they win this game. Not without a win. Because, with all due respect, home wins against NC State and Virginia in that road win at Syracuse that it's not enough to win you over. It doesn't improve their NCAA status all that much, but winning four in a row, that would change the conversation.

Especially if the fourth win of the bunch was this one. You could make a really strong and compelling case that tonight would be North Carolina's best ACC win if they were to get it. What ACC win would be more impressive? You haven't beaten Wake Forest, Clemson, Louisville, certainly didn't beat Duke and Cameron. What is the most impressive win? At home against Pittsburgh by a point? When you beat SMU by 15, was it that? Both those games were at the Smith Center. If you win tonight at Florida State, who is a capable team, Leonard Hamilton, maybe the last time he goes up against the Tar Heels, and you know Florida State will get up for the Tar Heels at the Tucker Center, and the fact that this is happening on the road, and not just that, a quick two-day turnaround, that would be impressive. That would be worth paying attention to.

If you want to make a pop culture reference, it'd be Leo DiCaprio in Django with the long straw in his drink saying, at first you had my curiosity, now you have my attention. Because the last time that North Carolina was in this two-day prep scenario, it was after beating Pitt by a point, and they lost by 20 at Little John Coliseum. Okay! So with all that said, the Seminoles are the pick tonight. From a basketball perspective, the story has been pretty consistent for North Carolina.

The size is a problem, or the lack thereof. This is the smallest North Carolina team since before Dean Smith arrived. That's not very good when you're facing a team that's always huge, and has a ton of guys in their rotation, and you've had problems on the road, you had issues with the two-day prep. So give me Florida State at the Tucker Center, on their court, winning on the road.

It's not easy to do in the ACC, or in most leagues. Florida State, the pick tonight. The Drive with Josh Graham, only on WSJS.

W.D. 's telling me, we got four pairs of tickets? For Wake Basketball Wednesday night, they're facing Virginia. Joel Coliseum, 9 o'clock tip. We need to give away tickets to see those Deacs. Let's actually give away a pair right now.

It's Virginia. 3-3-6-7-7-7-1-600, first person to call in at 3-3-6-7-7-7-1-600, gets our first pair of tickets to see the Deacs Wednesday night against the Cavaliers. In the meantime, it is time for Today's Best Bets. I'm not a betting duck.

Care to make it interesting? You know you do. You're on. Call me in on this.

Your best bet. But my money's on the other team. This is Josh's Best Bets. It turns out Vegas knew something that we didn't when it comes to State, Wake, and Duke, Illinois. We were talking about these lines being dropped on Saturday, or pardon me, Friday show, and when I shared with Will Dalton that Wake Forest was just a two-and-a-half point favorite at NC State, you looked at me and said, how is that possible? Turns out Vegas knew. And then when you were guessing the Duke-Illinois line, think you said like five-and-a-half, something like that, which would make sense. Madison Square Garden.

Give me that cash up, man. You're talking about a tournament team in Illinois. You're going to make that a double-digit spread? Well, nine-and-a-half didn't turn out to be enough, but it was big enough probably for a lot of people to take the Illini against the Blue Devils and lose dramatically, 43-point margin at MSG. Tonight's bet centers on Florida State, North Carolina. I think FSU is going to win the game on the floor.

So if you wanted to go money line, some places you could get plus 120 odds to do so, meaning you make $120 on a $100 bet. If you want to play it safe, take points at home. A home team getting points?

What's better than that? The Seminoles plus two-and-a-half against the Tar Heels tonight. There are a couple of toss-ups in college hoops. Number 15, and this is just tonight, a great college basketball slate we have. Number 15, Michigan, is at Nebraska. The Wolverines only favored by a point-and-a-half. Number 4, Houston, is at number 10, Texas Tech. We have a top-10 matchup tonight. The Cougs are favored by just one-and-a-half on the road.

Give me that cash up, man. NBA basketball tonight, the Charwood Hornets are at it again on the West Coast. They are at the Sacramento Kings. No Mark Williams tonight. Thus, Charlotte is an 11-and-a-half point underdog in that game. So North Carolina or Florida State plus two-and-a-half, that's the bet for best bets a little bit later on.

Give me that cash up, man. Let's check in on the first weekend of spring training. I was watching the Orioles spring opener at Lenovo Center in Raleigh, and who comes walking by as I'm doing so? The voice of the Orioles on television, Kevin Brown, who was calling Wake State on ESPN2, and it was good to catch up with him.

It was weird, honestly. Listening to Orioles action while KB was standing alongside me, here was one of those highlights from Saturday's spring training game. And there's that swing. Glides this one out to left center. Leon back to the warning track at the one-time here.

And Juan Soto has hollered in his first spring training, and that is a New York bet. You're a jerk. You are a jerk.

That's making it more quickly. Nice. Oh, no. I can't stand you right now. How did that get in there? Whoa. Juan Soto in his first plate appearance?

I can't stand you right now. Do you want to let the people in? Yes. Inside baseball, how much work had to go into getting that clip in for you not to notice? Because you're the one in charge of all the clips behind the scenes.

Yeah, I'll take them behind the scenes. So this guy comes into my studio during the break just a few minutes ago when he's like, hey, you got that Orioles call? I pulled it while you were at it because I think I left and went somewhere. He's like, I pulled it while you were going. I'm like, I don't see any Orioles. Yeah, you went to go get some nuts.

True story. I did. He's like, he walks back in. I got some nuts.

Yeah, and it's got like dark chocolate pieces in there too. So he pulls the clip. He didn't play it for me.

He just pulled it from the file. He's like, you must have deleted the Orioles. Because I never saw an Orioles clip.

It's labeled what? Orioles home run call. Got it. And you know, that alone made me upset. I was like, whatever, it's your show.

You're an Orioles fan. We'll play it. God, that makes me upset. Because I was thinking, if I just put it on the computer, you might play it before the show. I'm like, all right, well, maybe I, before the break, do it. But is he still going to play it to check?

Maybe, maybe not. It takes a while before you get the Juan Soto. I can't believe it. It's a lot of effort.

I can't believe it. Just to execute that joke. Yeah.

My dad's next to me. Juan Soto, what's that got to do with the Orioles? Nothing. That's the point.

That is the point, Scott. First at bat. See, he homered his first game as a Yankee last year. First at bat of spring training. Juan Soto going yard. I can't believe you. In college baseball.

Got the D1 baseball pull. And you got North Carolina at number five in the rankings. Wake Forest is at number 12.

Duke is at number 17. NC State falls out because NC State went 0-4 last week. Not very good.

Not very good at all. This has been a fun series between East Carolina and North Carolina, though. So they played at the DBAP on Saturday. North Carolina a winner. Yesterday, a very close game until North Carolina rolled in the latter innings. In the eighth. In the seventh and eighth.

They beat the Pirates that was at Boschmer. In just a little bit, ECU is going to be hosting North Carolina at a building they call Clark LeClaire Stadium in Greenville, America. And you know what, Will? I'm going to add to my Florida State bet against the Tar Heels. I'm going to double up against the Tar Heels tonight. I'm going to take Florida State plus two and a half. I'm going to take East Carolina because this is plus money. Send me that cash out, fam.

ECU plus one and a half runs at plus one fourteen. Wow. Tar Heels fans are going to be upset. You're the Tar Heels fan on the show, Will. How do you feel about this?

I mean, I don't care because I know it's all about capitalism. I'm a little surprised you're picking against them against Florida State. You know, you and I were planning to go to putters ahead of the basketball game on Wednesday night. I've placed two bets against your teams. Two. You have.

Two, Will. You have. How do you feel about that?

How do you feel about that? Is this your way of trying to bait me into a putter's bet? You can use the word bait.

Bait would suggest that you shouldn't do it. But no, these are your teams. You should feel confident. You're the one that said Jaylen Withers is the second coming of Brady Manick. I did say that.

A lot of people are saying that, actually. Jaylen Manick lose tonight's game against Florida State? You know what?

I don't think he would. Or do you believe in your number five ranked team in the country, the North Carolina Tar Heels in baseball? I'll tell you what I'm going to do here. What are you going to do here?

This is what I want to know. I will take Carolina over Florida State. And what was the bet for ECU?

It was ECU. Well, the line's plus two, so there's a chance you could push. Uh-huh.

Because plus one-fourteens with plus money. Do you want to do a money line type situation here where we just pick them? No. You know?

I do not. So I'll take Carolina in that one. One and a half. Yeah. That's what we'll do. Okay. Fine. I'll settle for one and a half. Okay. That's what I gave out on the show.

Okay. So what is the bet? Ones for coffee, ones for putters.

Is that what we're doing? Yeah, we'll just go all out of here. All right, which ones for coffee, which ones for putters? Let's go. I think coffee should be the baseball bet. Okay.

And the putters should be the basketball. There you go. We figured it all out.

Going all out. Uh, Wake Forest swept St. John's over the weekend. They lost the game to UNCG in the midweek last week. They blew out everybody they played on the weekend, week one. And then this weekend, 27 to 6 combined margin in the three wins against St. John's.

So, that's a pretty thorough check in on baseball. So in review, W.D. and I are now going head to head with tonight's bets here.

If the Tar Heels, I have Florida State plus two and a half against North Carolina. If that doesn't hit, then you'll see W.D. and I at putters, and I will be purchasing that putters for W.D. If my East Carolina Pirates aren't able to keep it within a run against the Tar Heels in Greenville, America, then I'll be getting him coffee as well tomorrow. Very excited to receive all of that. A lot of stakes. There really is. Attached to tonight and potentially to Wednesday night at putters.

Got a mean steak over there. The legendary singer Roberta Flack died today at 88 years old. Killing them softly with his song might be one of my 10 favorite songs of my childhood. I remember hearing it for the first time when I was sitting in a waiting room. Can't remember if it was a doctor appointment or a dentist appointment, but was infatuated by the lyrics and then it gets stuck in your head and then the song becomes something different over the years when you hear all the covers, the Frank Sinatra ones, the one that stands out the most, you hear all the remixes and all the samples that have been done on this song over more than 50 years. More than 50 years.

Roberta Flack, an iconic voice, an incredibly recognizable voice with a song that's going to live on forever, died today, 88 years old. Now, to recap the happenings in ACC basketball this weekend, we get to today's Graham's Grades. Every week is a test for your favorite sports teams. Is this a test? Who passed the test? I don't know.

Who dropped the ball? I don't know. Josh Graham has the answers.

What? Time for Graham's Grades. The good, the bad, the meh.

From what we saw, we cover it all and let's start on a positive note. A, Duke Eviscerating Illinois. How often do you hear the word eviscerated? Not very often. Can I tell you the most common place I hear the word eviscerate? In splashy clickbait stories where it's like, Bill Maher eviscerates, fill in the blank, the president, oh, eviscerates the mob.

Oh, Josh Graham eviscerated by Matt Jones. I don't know why that's the word people go to. Stephen A. Smith eviscerates. Like, do people use that word in regular conversation? I don't think so.

Actually, I think you're right. But that is what happened to Duke, or that is what Duke did. What is the exact definition of eviscerate? I did not know what the definition of eviscerate was.

Disembowel a person or an animal. Now, I don't know if literally that's what Duke did to Illinois Saturday night, but the closest thing we've seen in college basketball this year probably to that. Forty-three-point win, are you kidding me? Oh, but you had all the people saying, Josh, the only reason Duke is dominant is because the ACC is so bad. So how about we play a Big Ten team that's going to make the tournament? Biggest win margin of the year, Duke crushing it in the Garden. Clemson wins in Dallas.

Bye-bye, SMU. Fraud city, man. You're at home, you lose to Wake, you lose to Clemson. You get blown out by Duke when they come into your building.

Fraud city. Clemson, meanwhile, do you know how many straight games they've won? They've won four in a row. Watch out for the Clemson Tigers. They've won ten of their last eleven as well. This team is dangerous. They won by double digits at SMU. They're not going to lose a game the rest of the regular season. Notre Dame at home, at Virginia, at Boston College, and then they close the season with Virginia Tech at Little John Coliseum.

Okay. Clemson up to number 13 in the AP poll. Don't forget about them when you're filling out your bracket. C. North Carolina protecting home court. Beat NC State by 24.

And then what? You take care of your business against Virginia as well? Didn't rewatch this game until yesterday. 15-point win and it didn't even feel that close. Jalen Withers with 16 and 11. Got four others in double digits as well, including Van Allen Lubin. I don't know if I expected Van Allen Lubin and Jalen Withers to combine for 30 points and 17 rebounds.

Don't know if I had that on my bingo card on Saturday, but it's a C because that's what you're supposed to do at home. Win the night against Florida State and then people will start taking you more seriously. D. Pitt officially died. It's done.

You can say that. They're toast. They're finished. Pitt basketball will. Lost to Notre Dame 76-72 on Saturday. This Pitt team was trailing at halftime at home against Syracuse in the game before that.

There were scary moments against Miami before that. Beaten by 20 by SMU. Lost to Chapel Hill. Lost by 18. Make it 16 on their home court. The Virginia lost at Wake.

This team is, if there was any doubt going into the weekend, there is no doubt now. Pitt basketball is now 7-9 in the ACC. Take a guess where that puts them in the ACC standings right now. It's got to be like 13th?

14th? It's tied for 8th. But they're tied with three other teams. So there's a chance that Pitt's going to make the ACC tournament, but there's a chance they might be playing on Tuesday, because if you're 10 through 14, you're playing Tuesday of the ACC tournament. Jay Davis writes in, are we sure Illinois is an NCAA tournament team? Well, they're still receiving votes in the AP Top 25, and they play in the Big Ten that always gets too many bids.

So most places probably still say, yeah, they are, sadly. Oh, is that what we're on now? Steve Smith.

Ice up. See if you can find that image of Steve Smith's face, just to throw up at points during the show. If you know, you know. If not, I actually have Wake Forest's final 10 minutes at NC State here. I don't know if it's worse than the Florida State loss. I venture to say it isn't, because the FSU loss was on your home court where you never lose, and this was on the road in Raleigh in a Big Four game. But from the 10-19 mark till a buck 55 to go, Wake did not hit a field goal.

And at the 8-23 mark of the second half, they were leading 61 to 56, and allowed the Wolfpack to then go on an 18 to 2 run, allowing the Wolfpack over that final 8-23 to score 29 points. So offensively, it was bad. Defensively, it was an unmitigated disaster.

And we'll talk with Steve Forbes about that when he joins us in just a little bit. I don't know if it's as bad as the PR that Steve Smith's dealing with right now, but it's not great. It's not great, Will Dalton. It was a big weekend for baby Daniel, though. Shout out to my son.

I haven't tried! The last two nights slept through the night, Will. We're getting close to four months. Him hitting the four-month mark, back-to-back nights sleeping through the night, outstanding. We went to church yesterday. He did well in the nursery. I haven't tried! Today was his first day, us dropping him off at daycare, and I just got a positive report from my wife, who said Daniel had a great day today. So who's winning more than baby Daniel right now? Going to church, hanging out at the nursery, making new friends at daycare with the other babies there, I'm sure.

And on top of that, sleeping through the night, which means Sarah Bradford and I and Willow the dog aren't waking up in the middle of the night. I haven't tried! Are you paying attention, or are you still trying to find the Steve Smith picture from... Yeah.

For those watching on YouTube, Twitch, and X, there it is. And if you're not, well, why not? You should.

It's just not the most savory photo of 89. Ice up, sun. Ice up. Wake Weekly Conversations brought to you by our friends at First Horizon Bank. That's not Disco Inferno, that's Deacon Inferno, which means Steve Forbes is joining us at the end of our conversation. We'll have tickets to go see Wake Forest play Virginia. W.D., who is Wake Forest playing on Wednesday nights? It's Virginia.

That's correct. Steve Forbes, Wake basketball coach, joins us now. Oh, he enjoyed that.

He enjoyed hearing his own voice. When did I say that? It was you making a point a few years ago about them being a quad-two loss, you winning at... Where was that?

It's Virginia. Yeah. Got to remember that. Perhaps we could get to that in a bit. Let's talk about Saturday and then put it by the wayside before we push things ahead forward. After watching the cut-ups from the final ten minutes, what was more jarring to see on film, the offense that went close to eight and a half minutes without a field goal or the defense that allowed 29 points in the final 8-23? Yeah, I would probably go with the defense to be completely honest about it. I just didn't feel like we had the bite for the entire game that we have had all year long. We had a stretch from about the 11-minute mark maybe to the 8-minute mark. We had five stops in a row and we took the lead, but we just didn't have the consistent defensive effort that we've had all year long.

It was across the board. You can't put that on one player. We didn't hedge consistently. Our guards got caught in the roll, didn't get out to guard the three. Our guards didn't block out very well. They got some offensive rebounds early that gave them confidence.

And once you see the ball go in, then it starts to go in. And so I think it was a combination of probably that. And then I think offensively after we took the lead, we had three straight turnovers when we needed baskets. And two of them were offensive fouls and one of them was Hunter at the rim getting stripped and going out of bounds on him.

So I think it was a combination of a lot of those things. And look, you've got to give credit to NC State. I thought they played well. They made 13 threes, but six of those were pretty well guarded, and they had confidence. And I thought O'Connell was masterful running the game, running his team and controlling the game with his passing. Thirteen assists for Michael O'Connell, a career high, and obviously he's done a lot in his NC State career.

I can't remember if I gave you the proper introduction, Steve Forbes, Wake basketball coach with us here. The state loss came ten days after the Florida State loss, which also featured a less than stellar final ten minutes. Do you draw any parallels between the finishes of those games that could be teaching points this week? We'll talk about it, but they're different games. I mean, we had a nine-point lead in the Florida State game with Florida Go and gave up 18 points in four minutes when they scored 21 in the first half.

So, you know, I don't think they're the same game. But, yeah, you know, we'll visit about it. But, you know, we can't live in the past. You know, we've got to move on to Virginia. That's the most important thing in front of us. We'll talk about it, but then we've got to flush it, and we've got to get ready to play, you know, a home game here on Wednesday. Who's that home game again? It's Virginia.

That's right. There was a stat you shared on Saturday that was just insane to consider, that in your first four seasons, you had just five quad one opportunities at home, and four of those were against Duke. You've also had two top five finishes in the league, and you're likely to add a third to that, yet you haven't made the NCAA tournament. You're on the bubble again this year, it would seem.

What would Steve Forbes in May of 2020, spiking his face mask when accepting this job, and what would you have thought if I told him that could happen here? Yeah, I wouldn't have... I didn't really understand the net, obviously, at that point, you know, and what that meant with the league. I would have thought we'd have had a lot more, you know, opportunities at home, and we just... I didn't really realize it until I was talking to Chris Jans about it, and he was telling me they had eight, you know, this year, and I went back and looked, and that's when I realized that we had five for four years, and obviously, you know, you got a better chance to win at home than you do on the road, and there's only, you know, a limited amount of at-large bids, and so, you know, even though you say, well, it's a quad-three win, three road wins at Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Miami, it's still hard places to play. We hadn't won at Syracuse in the history of the program. We hadn't won at Miami since 2005 or something like that, so, you know, I just, you know, you feel like you would get more value, you know, for those kind of wins on the road, and you just don't have those opportunities at home in our league right now, and so... Or winning. How about winning two games on the West Coast?

How do you account for travel when it comes to the metrics? Well, you don't. I mean, you know, but we're not the only... Everybody in the big... in these power leagues are going through that. You know, the Big Ten is.

You've heard Musselman and Cronin talk about it. You know, look at the Big 12. I mean, West Virginia's playing. They're like Arizona, right?

I think they're in the league in Oregon and Washington. No, actually, that's Big Ten. I get confused.

But, yeah, it's just... It's a new era of college basketball, and we'll have to deal with, you know, more travel, and so as we do it, you know, we'll get better at it. I was very proud of my team to go out there and win two games, but coming back, I was worried because of the travel and then the recovery time to play, you know, Florida State, and so...

But no excuses. We had... We were up double digits, and we were up nine with four to go, so that's on us, but I don't know. I don't think there's going to be a travel metric when it comes to wins. Chris Jans is the head coach of Mississippi State, plays a lot of home games. Where does his home... Where is his home games played, W.D.? They play at the hump. That's correct. The hump.

That's where Chris Jans has his home games. I never lost in the hump. You never lost at the hump? That's a lie.

That's a lie. I lost at Louisiana Tech, but at Tennessee, we never... We went in there and won. The hump's a good environment, and Chris is, you know, he's an unbelievable job. He's the help coach, and, you know, him and I had known each other since high school, and we coached together at Idaho. I helped bring him in there, and then he brought me into Wichita State. He took my job at Illinois State when I left, and so we've looked out for each other our entire career. Yeah, he's done a nice job there, went to the tournament last year, saw him in Charlotte. That's where they were sent for regionals, and we'll see where they're sent this year.

Steve Forbes is with us here. Did you happen to catch what Duke did to a Big Ten team this weekend? No. I came home after... I got home from Raleigh, sat down on my chair and watched the black-and-white version of Sergeant York.

No. I woke up the next morning, looked at some... I hadn't looked at any scores, and I saw they won by 42. I was like, holy shit. You know, like... Man. You know, I mean, they're playing well, right?

They're really good. Sergeant York from the 40s? Is that what we're talking about? 1941. Where did you find this? It was on the television.

Didn't even surf. It was on Turner Classic, maybe, something like that. My wife and I were sitting there, and I'm sure at one point she expected me to change the channel, and I didn't. I was in a vegetated state, and I just watched the whole thing.

I'd never seen it. It was pretty good. Do you want to recap the episode? What kind of adventure did Sergeant York get into? Oh, my God. He was a war hero. He won a Congressional Medal of Honor, took out two machine gun batteries by himself, because you're kind of sitting there wondering, did this really happen?

My God. And after that, yeah, I tried to go to sleep, but I couldn't. But Sergeant York took me through the rest of the night, and I was very appreciative of that. I wasn't going to go this path, but since we're going down history, and I know how much you love history, we'll do it anyway. This weekend marked the 45th anniversary of the Miracle on Ice, which some people were thinking about, because the four nations face off between Canada and the United States recently.

A young Stephen Forbes would have been close to 15 years old, if my math is correct. How locked in were you on Lake Placid, 1980? Very. I watched the whole thing.

I can see it in my mind in the living room, my entire family in there. We didn't have cable, so you got those NBC, ABC, CBS, and we watched the win over the Russians and then the championship game. I think it was Yugoslavia.

I could be wrong. Finland. Finland, okay. Yeah, we watched it. It was kind of a patriotic thing to do. I didn't watch hockey.

I don't really understand it. I had a lot of fun when I did the Hurricanes game a couple years ago, but it was just the thing that you did, and I do remember it, and I vividly remember it, the whole thing. I was asking about it this weekend, and what some of my family told me was it was tape delayed to run in prime time, and what they would remember was Jim McKay would set up the broadcast live, and everybody would just be studying Jim's face, and Jim said something like, you're not going to want to miss this, and they're like, does that mean we won? Because Jim knows. Jim knows, and you know Jim knows, and then they do the full intermissions. It's like, do we need to really sit here for 20 minutes? The game's over.

We don't have to pretend Herb Brooks is in the back right now. See, I didn't even know that. You know what I mean? As a kid, I was a freshman in high school, I think, in 80, and I didn't know that. I just thought it was live. You know, that's the way, you know, you did things back in those days that didn't even think about it. You couldn't do it now because somebody would have tweeted about it that we won, so you can't hide it, but- WOJ would have ruined it. WOJ would have just put it out on social media. There'd have been like a Bobby Orr bomb, you know, or a Dorothy Howe bomb.

Michael Rizzioni bomb. Yeah. I mean, that's about the only two people I know, so I'm not real fluent in hockey history, but yeah, you know, it's a different time. I mean, Jim McKay, wide world of sports.

You watched it, you know, and all that stuff already happened, a lot of it, you know, but that's just the way, you know, television was in those days. How special, because it's, we'll close with this, you have a couple of home games this week, you have three home games remaining, and you got Cam Hildreth, who's going to be playing his last crop of home games, probably Hunter Salas, maybe Efton Reed the same way, and you look at it, like, how do you convey to Wake fans just how special this group is? Yeah, you know, it's a good question. I hadn't thought about it as much as I will next week, you know, and I always get very emotional on senior day because, you know, I value my relationship with my players, and they value theirs with me. You know, I think this, beside the fact they're just really good basketball players, they're even better people, and that means a lot to me because I know when they leave here, they're going to be successful in life no matter what it is that they do, and, you know, they're all different. You know, Cam is a four-year guy. We've talked about that before. There's not very many of those guys left in our league that, you know, this will be the third year in the league. He's averaged double figures. I think it's him and RJ and Chase Hunter and maybe somebody else.

I don't know. You know, Hunt and Efton came here from Gonzaga, totally different situations, and they've thrived here, and so they're a great group of people, and, you know, they're our captains, and I have a leadership meeting with them, you know, during the week, you know, not every week, and I listen to what they have to say. I value what they have to say, and, you know, it's not always that way, you know, and so as we get closer to next Saturday, I'm sure more things will feel and remember more things, but just watching them grow as players and as people.

I have a great relationship with their families, and all those things are very valuable to me. I know I've had conversations with folks at Duke, and they've been struggling with modern college basketball in the sense of how do you recognize careers for guys that are one or two years when Zion's incredible and Cooper Flag looks like he's going to be the National Player of the Year. When I look up into the Wake Rafters, I see Chris Paul's name up there, and I don't think he won ACC Player of the Year. He's first-team all-ACC guy, like Hunter's going to be back-to-back years. Have you started the hat, like with Alondis Williams, for example?

It's just one year, but he's a Player of the Year for the first time since Josh Howard. Like, how do you feel about the significance of the rafters and recognizing careers, even if they might be shorter than they used to be? Yeah, you know, we have a unique situation here where we do have a group of incredible players in the rafters. The issue for me is that instead of retiring the jerseys, they retired the numbers, and so that becomes a problem in recruiting, you know, when you have a bunch of numbers that you can't use, and so I'm not really for that, you know, and so I think that's something that for those guys that people outside of me can discuss later on what the criteria is or isn't to be up there, you know, and so, you know, Carolina has, you look up there, and it's overwhelming. You know, same thing with Syracuse, but those numbers are still in play, and so at least I know there's only a couple Carolina, I think, like Phil Ford.

Lenny Rosenbluth. Yeah, that people can still wear, you know, and, you know, it's a modern-day issue when it comes to recruiting, and believe it or not, those numbers are really important to those kids, and it's always a difficult conversation when after you get them, they say, Well, what number do you want to wear? And it's like, One more three. Can't. 21. Nope.

You know, it's just on and on, you know, and it's like, no, you know, because the NCAA has allowed us to wear some different numbers, that's helped us, but, you know, I think those are conversations for later on, you know, where players fit in that category. I'm forgetful. Who does Wake Forest play Wednesday night again? It's Virginia.

That's right. 336-777-1600. Call her. Let's call it three. Gets tickets to go see Wake Forest Virginia at the Joel on Wednesday nights.

It's Virginia. W&D and I are starting a tradition for 9 o'clock games that we go to putters before. We do. What should I get? Like, what do you get when you go? Like, W&D gets a wrap. It's a very big menu. There's a lot of choices. Yeah. I've been told the steaks are really good. I'm kind of a chicken Philly cheese guy, something like that, with tater tots. You got to go tater tots. Yes.

And I would suggest the Red Oak beer. You know, obviously, I can't do that, but I would suggest that you do that, and maybe you'll report a little bit better. You know, I've got a couple more notes than you. That's usually how it works.

You ran that ball screen second half. All right. That's my impression of a drunk person. Steve Forbes, good luck this week, Wednesday, Saturday. We'll get more butts in seats, and we'll talk to you a couple weeks from now, if not in person, in a few days. Look forward to it, Josh.