Happy Duke-UNC Week

This is the DRIVE Podcast with Josh Graham.

Now you're talking my language. You can hear the DRIVE weekday afternoons, 3 till 6 on WSJS. You are on a Monday DRIVE! It is WSJS, News Talk Sports for the Triad, where we're coming off of the two conference championships in the NFL, and all anybody wants to talk about are the teams that lost the games. Well that and slow-mo reading Taylor Swift's lips on the field trying to figure out if she dropped the L word yesterday. Perhaps we'll have some time between now and the Super Bowl in two weeks to get to that, but strangely enough there's a Carolina Panthers update to get to first. During Lions 49ers last night, I had an epiphany. There are two teams that the Panthers have modeled their rebuild after, which makes sense. You want to model after the teams that are very good and the teams that they were modeling after were the NFC finalists, both the Lions and the 49ers. That's the rebuild that Carolina is trying to do.

That's the epiphany I had. Then there was some reporting behind it. Adam Schefter broke this news yesterday that the Carolina Panthers, as expected, had targeted cap guru Brant Tillis from the Kansas City Chiefs to couple with Dan Morgan at the top of the Carolina Panthers front office.

That part's not very newsworthy. We all kind of had that sense where things were headed, but in Adam's reporting in the story he wrote Carolina is trying to set up their front office to look a lot like the 49ers front office. That's what Schefter reported, and when you look at San Francisco's front office they have a former pro bowler on defense that's running the show, John Lynch. They have a GM cap guru type that's paired with John Lynch at the top of that front office too, and that's what Carolina wants. That combo should provide the coach, Dave Canales, insulation from the owner, David Tepper. He's a numbers guy in addition to being a concerts guy.

Cap specialist Brant Tillis should be able to speak his language. Dan Morgan doesn't seem like a yes man. He seems like he could put his foot down on some things, and he just hired the coach that he wanted.

That's what stood out to me. Dave Canales, eight years together with Dan Morgan. No other team requested an interview with him. That is the Panthers' coach because that's the coach Dan Morgan wanted to hire the way that it should be, and speaking of Dave Canales, the more you read about him it's hard not to think about the Lions. Dave Canales is known for bringing juice. The first post that the Panthers put out on their social media announcing the hire is he will bring the juice, communication skills, his positivity, a lot like Dan Campbell. And another similarity between Dan Campbell and Dave Canales, both received six-year contracts upon arriving, and that comes with a lot of security, or at least you would think. Carolina also likely believes that Canales is the next Ben Johnson. Carolina was mocked a year ago for really liking Ben Johnson to the point where they wanted to hire him prior to Johnson pulling his name out of consideration for any of the jobs. They liked him even though he had one year of coordinator experience. Carolina wanted to get in early on the Ben Johnson business.

Now, a year later, Ben Johnson, the biggest name among the assistants, didn't want to come to Carolina, all indications point to, so they wanted to get in early on the Dave Canales business who went toe-to-toe with Ben Johnson in the playoffs, round two of the playoffs at that, and has done a really nice job of elevating quarterbacks. So Carolina in their front office, modeling it like the San Francisco 49ers. The coaching staff and the hire of Dave Canales, you can't help but think of the Detroit Lions.

And here's a similarity between both Detroit and San Francisco. They both hired their GM and coach in the same cycle. This is the first time Carolina's doing that in 22 years when they hired Marty Hearney and John Fox. A couple of years removed from going to the Super Bowl, by the way. They, of course, went in 2003, the second season that they were together.

Both San Francisco and Detroit also took a minute as well. In San Francisco, it was John Lynch paired with Kyle Shanahan. Year one, they won four games. Year two, they won six. Ten combined wins in the first two years of Lynch and Shanahan. In Detroit, Dan Campbell was paired with NCA&T Aggie Brad Holmes as the GM. Yeah, had to work in the Gov some way somehow.

Three and 13 his first year, one and six in year two. Both the Lions and the Niners got off to slow starts under new regimes. So Carolina, you guessed it, is going to have to be a little patient. But we know who they're modeling after. It's Detroit and it's San Francisco. OnX at WSJS radio if you want in.

That's why we're streaming video in addition to YouTube and Twitch. Well, Dalton is the executive producer of this show. W.D., do you want to take a guess at where the line opened up for 40 Niners Chiefs, Super Bowl 58? I'm gonna guess Niners three and a half. Bold. Niners minus one.

In some places, one and a half. We'll get to that game shortly. Let's go to the phones though. North Carolina a winner over Florida State. They're 9-0 for the first time since 2001.

Kind of crazy. Joel Berry's going to join us later on in the program. Ed, what was your thought on what North Carolina figured out down the stretch at Florida State? Yeah, they really didn't play very well the first half and I was really concerned when you turn the ball over 17 times, give up nine threes, unless your opponent outshoots you from the three-point line and two-point line. I mean, that's a major concern, but the Tar Heels were resilient and they did find other ways to win. They out rebounded by nine or ten. They shot about 13 or 14 more free throws and then they also got Florida State to turn it over 14 times.

So that showed me that they've got a lot of gumption and a lot of spirit and hopefully they'll continue. Yeah, Florida State hit seven threes in the first half, had 21 bench points, and North Carolina turned it over a dozen times and Florida State only led that game by five at home. That's how I knew that North Carolina was probably going to figure out a way in the second half. Happy Duke Carolina week to all that celebrate. First matchup in Chapel Hill this weekend since we just hit on the Tar Heels there.

Let's go to the other side of the ledger. Fresh off surviving Clemson at Cameron Saturday, Duke is right back at it tonight. Seven o'clock tip for the Blue Devils visiting Virginia Tech, a game you could listen to right here on WSJS. This is a good spot for Tech and a bad spot for Duke. Thus, you should expect that the Hokies are going to capitalize on this quad one opportunity and win at the castle tonight. The Hokies, they've been a thorn in the Blue Devils side recently. Did you know that in the last dozen meetings between these two, it's been evenly split six apiece including three of the last four being won by Virginia Tech at the castle and of course an ACC tournament championship win for Virginia Tech and Coach K's final ACC tournament. Hunter Couture had 31 that night in Brooklyn and this is maybe his last time facing the Blue Devils tonight. It's a quick turnaround for Duke.

We hit on that a second ago but this is why that's very important. It's their first two-day prep for any game this year. Last year, Duke had four games in which they played on a two-day prep. You know what their record was, W.D.?

What was it? 0-4. Not very good. That includes a loss at Virginia Tech in the infamous Kyle Filipowski throat punch game. So give me the Hokies. It's their last chance for a quad one win at home. They go to Chapel Hill, no return trip for the Tar Heels and they're done with Clemson for the year. Tech's gonna get up for Duke.

It should be a great crowd tonight and they're going to improve to 11-1 at home at the castle this year. All right, I think all the levels are set. Showtime. Now?

Right now. You're on the drive with Josh Graham. Chiefs 49ers, a rematch of the Super Bowl in Miami four years ago that was right before COVID hit. That was the Shakira J-Lo halftime performance and it was a 10-point fourth quarter rally for Patrick Mahomes. He hit on a big third and 16 to Tyreek Hill in order to fuel that comeback. They ended up winning by double digits, which is kind of crazy, the three touchdowns that they scored.

Lightning quick. Let's get to some local ties to the rematch that we're going to see in Vegas, Super Bowl 58. The Niners, they have three Carolina Panthers from last year on this team. McCaffery is the obvious one. Sam Darnold, don't forget about him, Brock Purdy's backup.

And then there's Steve Wilks, who Carolina probably should have hired a year ago. This will make I think San Francisco the easy team to root for in this game. Plus, they haven't won since the 90s, since Steve Young was getting the monkey off his back and blowing out the Chargers and Junior Seau. We're talking about 30 years since the last time San Francisco has won a Super Bowl.

Then, of course, you have the weird Taylor Swift hate that's out there as well. One more tie from the San Francisco end, defensive tackle Javon Hargrave is from Spencer, North Carolina, which is right outside Salisbury, so right up the road. Flipping it to the Kansas City Chiefs, NC State alum Joe Tooney is on the Chiefs. You might remember him protecting Tom Brady in two Super Bowl wins in 2016 and 2018. He's now a Chief. He won a Super Bowl with the Chiefs last year, so he's looking for his fourth ring.

He didn't play yesterday due to an injury. One of the more impressive things about what Kansas City did to Baltimore, they were still able to run the ball with Isaiah Pacheco, despite the fact that they were banged up up front. The Ravens, one of the best defenses in the league this year.

That really works on both sides. The Chiefs nearly allowed 200 rushing yards to Buffalo, yet shut down the number one rushing offense in the league. Also, cornerback Joshua Williams is a North Carolina kid. He's from Fayetteville and went to Fayetteville State University. Those are the ties on the rosters and on the coaching staff, if you count Steve Wilks. Then there's Jim Nance. Nance will be calling the game on CBS. He calls Charlotte his hometown.

He'll be inducted into the North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame in Charlotte in May. A lot of heat on Tony Romo, by the way. People have turned on him.

I remember when people thought he was the greatest thing. Now, it seems, people like Greg Olsen a lot more than they like Tony Romo. Maybe they like the new thing a lot better than the thing that's now been there a little bit longer, but I thought Tony Romo did a great job yesterday.

Some are annoyed with the energy and the he sounds like a fan sitting next to you at a game when he's calling it, but I get a lot of insight when I listen to Tony call a game. We need to get back to Duke because here's the prevailing headline to come from Duke's win over Clemson on Saturday. The Tigers got screwed by the officials at Cameron, which, having been their court side to watch it, could not be farther from the truth.

And this is why. The Proctor play, which happened literally 10 feet in front of me, it was a foul. As soon as it happened, I didn't even second guess it. I thought, okay, that's a foul. And then I looked at the replay and it was a foul. Don't give me the nonsense about, oh, it could have been a push off on Tyrese. You're not calling that at the end of the game.

You're just not. The officials had not been calling that the entire game. That was not going to get whistled. Stop it.

Let's be reasonable here. Look at the defender's feet. Oh, he flopped with the head bob or whatever. Look at the defender's feet. Look where he took off. Look where he landed. Did he disrupt Tyrese Proctor's ability to land? Was there contact? Yes and yes, it's a foul.

Plain and simple. Then a lot of people were mad about the inbounds Hail Mary. That's something I didn't even give a second thought to. You're never getting that call. Oh, PJ Hall was tackled. Sure, there was contact, but he didn't have the ball. So it's a much higher bar that needs to be met in terms of contact that warrants a foul in that situation than Tyrese having the ball attempting a shot. This is basketball 101 here. So you might think that's a foul on PJ Hall. They should call it.

But you can't argue that it's subjective. It wasn't egregious. And I think we can agree on that particular play, a second to go Hail Mary inbounds throw.

It better be egregious if you're going to blow the whistle in that spot. But none of that stopped Clemson from losing it. Joe Girard had to be restrained from the officials.

And then Brad Brownell, Clemson coach, said this in the post game. We lost by two when the last time I was here, we had to leave with two minutes to go. So I've been here in this same situation about four times within a possession.

I haven't won one yet. So tonight was as close as we got. We got to one second and had it taken from us. Goodbye. Oh, goodbye. Had it taken from us. So dramatic. These coaches had it taken from us.

Goodbye. Duke was not given preferential treatment. When people talk about, hey, it was an officiating screw job. My question is, was your team officiated differently than the other team? Don't say that you just didn't like that call at the end.

Was your team officiated differently? Let's look at the previous possession to the Tyrese Proctor free throws. PJ Hall went to the line on a late whistle at Cameron to put Clemson in front.

And not only that, it was a late whistle to foul Kyle Filipowski out of the game. Oh, these officials are protecting the ACC. These officials are protecting Duke. Number one, if you're protecting Duke, why call 17 fouls on Duke? Why foul out Kyle Filipowski? And also, how is Duke winning protecting the ACC when Clemson kind of needs to win a big game in order to get into the tournament? Duke's good.

None of it makes sense. 37 fouls were called in the game. So if you want to say, well, yeah, you know, the Tyrese Proctor play was a bit ticky tack.

I'd agree with you. If it was a game where neither team was in the double bonus because the game had been officiated differently the rest of the game. Not in a game where 37 fouls were called. In a game where 37 fouls were called, they were calling everything. So how did Clemson go from up four with the ball to losing this game by a point if the game were being officiated tightly the whole way? If it was fairly officiated.

I've got an answer for you. Four straight possessions in which Clemson didn't get a shot and turned over the ball. Going into the under four timeout, Clemson had five turnovers on the game.

Five. The final two ten of the game. Four turnovers. Four straight possessions. The final two possessions of the game that Clemson had that did not result in turnovers were PJ Hall free throws. They got to the free throw line. So the reason why Clemson lost or didn't get more free throws at the end was because they gave away the ball. And are we going to blame officials for that? Are we really going to do that?

Let's call a spade a spade. This is only a story. This is only a conversation because it's Duke. You're going to be shocked to learn that people hate Duke still.

You're going to be shocked to learn that. If Clemson gets that same call at home at Little John Coliseum, it's not a story. Nobody cares.

Nobody wants to even have this conversation. But now it becomes, oh Duke gets all the calls. 17 fouls. Kyle Filipowski fouls out of the game. Where were these officials protecting Duke a week ago when Pitt came in and Blake Corum standing on the table in front of the crazies winning a tight game? Well, that's a tough game.

Or Arizona to open the year. Or last year in Charlottesville where the ACC had to put out a statement saying that they screwed it up and screwed Duke. Come on. I give John Shire credit for at least pushing back on this notion after the game. You know, for me, like look, I can go through the whole game and talk about the different plays of us, them pushing us in the back or blocking out or I can go down the whole game. All I know is Tyrese Proctor made a heck of a play then to drive it to the basket and he gets fouled shooting two free throws. Like look, I think there's a lot of contact both ways. I'm not sitting here and saying there's one way or the other. A lot of contact both ways and that's part of playing the ACC.

Good for John Shire. Real quick, let's go to Kenny and Winston. Kenny, do you agree with me on the officiating at the end of the game?

Duke Clemson. By the way, I'm an Armando t-shirt winner by the way. Let's go Kenny. Let's go. Thank you.

Thanks for that. But I watched that game. I'm a fan of neither team. I'm a Wake Forest fan and I think the foul call was justified.

Don't have a problem. However, it appears that defenders cannot defend anymore, especially down the lane. 9 out of 10 calls are blocking and I understand they tweaked the rule this year but it's always been like that. They call blocking all the time. It slows down the game and I'm just not a fan of the calls.

I appreciate you Kenny first for winning the t-shirt but also allowing me to make this point. I'm defending the refs in saying that they didn't screw Duke or that Clemson didn't get screwed, excuse me. But I'm with you in saying that they didn't do a good job in this game. The game was officiated fairly. It wasn't officiated well because too many fouls were called and the reason why you could not swallow the whistle in that spot with Tyrese is because they called way too many fouls in the first 59 or 39 minutes and 53 seconds.

You had to. You had to blow the whistle but it's because but it's because they called so many fouls in the game and it really slowed things down. Graham's Grades where we recap what we saw over the weekend is right now where there's a lot to dive into football, basketball, and otherwise. Over the weekend and we start in basketball with a Harrison Ingram. 13 points, 17 rebounds, three steals, an assist, and a blocked shot in the final minute to put the game away. 75-68 North Carolina winners against the Seminoles. 10 straight wins for Carolina 9-0 to start the ACC season. Something that has not happened in 23 years with Tar Heel Basketball. It is interesting that the two closest ACC wins that North Carolina's had both against the Seminoles. 8-point win in Chapel Hill, 7-point win in Tallahassee but with Ingram that's three straight games that he's had double-digit rebounds and double-digit points and he's done it in five of his last six or I should say nine points and double-digit rebounds in five of his last six games. That includes the 9-point 19 reboundality he had against NC State. It's hard for me to come up with a comp for him. I might need to think a little bit more on that and perhaps later in the week we can figure that piece out because there aren't many players quite like him. He's not the best player on Carolina. RJ Davis is in the National Player of the Year conversation but he is the most important player because of all the things he does and that was on display Saturday Saturday afternoon. B. Taylor Swift to the Super Bowl.

W.D. I'm embracing love not hate. I loved every bit of video I saw of Taylor Swift on the field with Travis Kelce. It was nice. That was super sweet.

It was nice. And earnest and wholesome. If you hate that. You got problems.

You do because Travis Kelce is such a meathead. He is. He sees Taylor Swift and the first thing he says is how about that one.

Yeah. And then he's yelling on the stage. Taylor Swift standing right there yelling on the stage.

You gotta fight for your right. That's it. And we still need to hear Andy Reid's knowledge of Taylor Swift. Super Bowl media days he's gonna be inundated with questions about that. It was the best photo I saw yesterday. Somebody captured right behind Taylor Swift's shoulder looking up at the stage. Andy Reid turning around looking for Taylor Swift and from the stage pointing at her and Taylor Swift pointing back. Incredible stuff.

I just want to know more. Just punch this microphone. You did. Usually get on me for that.

Just whack the thing. Do you think they've shared a cheeseburger together yet? No. I don't think Taylor Swift eats cheeseburgers.

At all? I don't think so. I don't know about that. We learned that Sam Howell doesn't eat cheeseburgers. Remember that?

Vaguely. Oh yeah yeah yeah. He doesn't like cheeseburgers. Wouldn't surprise me if Taylor Swift wasn't a cheeseburger person but I'm all in. I've been all in but even more in on Taylor Swift going to the Super Bowl.

So much fun. Dan Campbell's fourth down decisions. It's a C only because they didn't work.

They should have. Josh Reynolds dropped the pass. I get going for it the second time because you're not playing for a tie. You're trying to win a game. So I defend the fourth down decisions but the reason why it's a C. Number one they didn't work and number two why didn't you go for it on fourth down inside the five going into the half if that's what you're about.

You're going to be about it be about it and you weren't in that spot and I don't know the answer why. D. Officiating at Cameron. There were a couple I was thinking about putting here at D. I'll keep it with officiating and here's why. The reason it's not an F is because Clemson did not get screwed by the refs. Duke didn't get bailed out. If that happened that'd be an F. That's terrible for the sport if that's something that actually happened. The officials bailing out a team.

I don't think that happened. The reason why it's a D is because they called almost everything 37 foul calls in this game. That's not what anybody wants to see. And the amazing thing is despite Duke being called for 17 fouls and 37 being called altogether that has not stopped Clemson fans from complaining there should have been more fouls called. Listen when you're on the road any coach will admit this. You hear coaches talking about home court and home field advantage in sports. The advantage you get is just super loud in here and that's gonna throw the team off completely.

No. If they were being honest about it the greatest advantage you get being at home is in the way of officiating. It's not intentional. It goes down to the subconscious that if it's a 50-50 call and a judgment call you're more than likely to give the call to the team that has all the people that will give you positive affirmation if you call it in their favor. That's just human nature stuff and why teams love being at home that you're more likely to get a call. I don't think Duke really did but there were way too many whistles for my liking. F the Ravens offense. They just didn't look themselves and that's a bummer.

That's a bummer. If Baltimore committed to the run and just couldn't get anything together that's one thing. But Baltimore having 16 rush attempts in this game that's it? And throwing the ball 37 times with Lamar?

Inexcusable. And Lamar had eight of those carries. So let's do math real quick. Lamar Jackson threw the ball 37 times W. Do you know how many times the running backs for the Ravens had carries in this football game? How many carries they got?

You want to take a guess? 10. Six. Not even 10? Six. Lamar had eight of the 16. Zay Flowers had two. Doing the math here at least six for Gus Edwards and Justice Hill. That's it. The Ravens weren't themselves and I watched that and I did have the thought. Thank goodness the Panthers didn't hire Todd Bumpkin. Thought you might.

That's been Graham's Grades. Let me look down at my phone here. What day is it? January 29th? That means you only have two more days to take advantage of Northwest NC's YMCA's zero dollar joining fee offer. Go online YMCA in wnc.org click join and hey when you're a member at one of the 12 branches you are member at all 12 of the branches.

Zero dollar joining fee for the next couple of days YMCA in wnc.org. North Carolina basketball is 9-0 in the ACC for the first time in 23 years. That team had Matt Doherty on the Tar Heel bench.

Joe Forte was Carolina's best player. Here to help us make sense of Hubert Davis's Tar Heels is Carolina legend Joel Berry from the ACC network joining us now. North Carolina won four road games all of last year Joel.

This month they've won five including Saturday at Florida State. What's been the biggest surprise to you about this start that they've enjoyed? Just with the environment that we are in with guys moving around and not having that camaraderie and having that comfortableness with one another and I think that really that's what really stands out with this team to me it's just how they have been able to go on the road and win in different ways and then being able to win close games and a lot of that has to do with just the togetherness that they have and if you look at this team you would think they have played together for you know a while now and a lot of these guys are brand new to the team so I think you know we can get into the weeds of it but all in all I think the togetherness that we see in this team and guys being able to do different things and accepting their roles that's what has stand out that's what has stood out to me. I don't want to turn into a dictionary but the opposite the antithesis of togetherness I think is selfishness and we're seeing a team that is playing unselfish but in order for that to work you're probably gonna have to see guys play different roles that probably means Armando Bacot taking less shots and becoming the anchor of Carolina defensively. Harrison Ingram comes in and some games it might be scoring some games it might be rebounding it could be defense blocking a shot in the final minute like he did at Florida State. How does that work within a locker room getting guys to buy in on the overall team vision rather than worrying about individual roles and getting yours so to speak? And that's the challenging part for coaches that's the challenging part for players being able to understand your role but then it goes further than just understanding it being able to accept it so role definition and role acceptance is very important in a team dynamic and the one thing I want to hit on is Armando because I've been seeing it a lot on social media about Armando needing to do this Armando needing to do that and looking at prior years he's not doing the same as he did this year this year look the thing is Armando is contributing in different ways the things that don't show up on the scorecard he's doing think about the amount of attention each team has to pay it have to pay to Armando look at the wait for it's going to force game they were literally they had their big man sitting up under the rim to to have it to where Armando wasn't able to just get the ball and score yeah so now what does that do that opens up opportunities for RJ that opens up opportunities for Harrison Ingram and I might sound fired up about this is but it's just because I hate when I don't like when people from the outside look at it as a guy is not producing because he's not putting the ball in the basket you don't like when people are saying that Armando is having a down year or a setback because he's not scoring as much exactly because he's doing so many other things and it's it's you know it's not quantitative but he's doing he's able to contribute in a different way that looks different than what we've seen in the past and the thing is he has help around him we don't need him to do try to score try to rebound try to do everything he has those guys around him now so um you know being able to accept that and I'm glad that he's able to still thrive um and what he's doing without all of that outside noise I'm not a Carolina fan I'm not a fan of any of the teams that I cover I went to East Carolina University but I am a Joel Berry fan who's joining us and I am a fan of Armando Baycott too as we got the Armando t-shirts that's right oh man that he made he made these t-shirts and breaking tea and sent us some and uh so the Armando bit has made it through four and a half years and we're still rolling strong with it getting to Elliot Caddell I see the Marcus Page comparisons who you played with I see the Kendall Marshall comparisons Kendall was a two-year player Marcus a four-year player who does Elliot remind you of is it one of those guys or somebody else I'm just suspect that I didn't get the comparison no I'm just playing I'm just playing I don't care about that no uh those are two those are two really good guys uh that they're comparing him to um you know I see more of Kendall Marshall than Marcus um but as far as the way that Elliot is able to see the game I can I can see why they compare him to Marcus because Marcus had a really high IQ for the game um and so I I definitely can see that but man Elliot man he like I'm just proud of him for being able to stick with it like it's not easy coming in being a point guard in in Carolina system um there are so many things that uh people don't see from the outside that you have to do you got to be able you got to call every single play at the free throw line you got to know where guys are on the floor and each and every game you have seen him just improve um and I'm just thinking that Florida State game we really saw minus the shooting you know the shooting is still a work in progress but look how aggressive he was I mean he was getting to the basket uh I love the little one hand scoop it seems like no one can can block that um but you can just tell he's a lot more comfortable in his role a lot more comfortable than being able to uh score the ball and know when to score the ball and when to kind of back up and be that distributor um so I love the way that he's playing and it's just crazy to think that he should still be in high school and he just plays with such a veteran poise um that you would think that uh you know he's been in college for for a good amount of years does anything about him remind him of you or remind you of him uh I think uh kind of sort of the hair minus the dreads I mean you know I think I think I think all the point guards like to kind of have that uh have that wild hair look I guess that's what contributes to the to the game um so I love that um you know the height is there you know I still think I'm taller than RJ I'm taller than Elliot that's why I didn't include you in that because you're just too tall Joel I'm too tall man they're too little man no I think uh I just you know I think the competitiveness and in the way that he competes um I will say that that that uh that's that's what I had Joel Too Tall Berry joining us here oh I like that yeah it might have a rig to it joining us here at WSGS it does feel like that the ACC rookie of the year race is down to probably kiddo Dukes Jared McCain there are probably a couple of folks at Pittsburgh that would have issues with that assessment they have a couple of good freshmen as well the guy at Georgia Tech who we're going to see tomorrow um Carolina's going to face tomorrow certainly would fall in that but speaking of Jared McCain it is Duke Carolina week Saturday in Chapel Hill boy am I excited to watch it what do you think it's far and away as of right now Duke and Carolina separating themselves as the two best teams because the way I read it is Duke it's weird to say Duke's flying under the radar but with all the attention Carolina's had in surprising people it it kind of threw me off guard that a week and a half ago Duke was ranked seventh in the poll and they still have all these guys from a team that we thought would I mean was going to be great picking them preseason number two what do you think yeah I I can say that uh they have sort of in a way been flying up under the radar um I think there are a lot of things one Carolina has been playing uh fantastic early uh in this season and you know it brings more attention because everyone's still you know is talking about last season as well so just you know the the the comparison of last year and this year being totally opposite I think that's kind of pulling away from from Duke a little bit and then also just the ACC in general you know the the question of you know what's going on with the ACC is it a down year you know all of those conversations um kind of have uh been the hot topic but Duke man they're they're right there they're they're they're a good team I will say that it is Carolina and Duke at the top of the conference um but you got a lot of you got a lot of you know Virginia's still there Clemson's can can still hopefully get back in the mix um but I think it's those two teams um and I and man I'm looking forward to going against them it's going to be a great game um but yeah I think I think those two teams are at the top of the conference the last time Duke and Carolina faced each other in the regular season as ranked teams five years ago 2019 that is that is crazy every single time you guys played Duke felt like you both were ranked in the top 10 and going head to head did you have a favorite of the Duke Carolina matchups my favorite one just because I I've told people this my my senior year we shouldn't have won that game if you look at like we had Theo Benson at the five was that the game Theo had the dunk at the end was that one yeah yeah and they had Marvin Bagley they had uh Windell Carter his name Windell Carter and just that that alone right there our big man we had Luke May and Theo Pinson down there grinding and I I did not think we were going to win that game and we end up winning it and it was it was by far one of the best games just because if you looked at both teams if you walked in and you saw the size that Duke has and the lack of size that we had you were like okay there's no way Carolina's winning this game and we end up coming out on top I'm trying to think is that the only time you stepped out there thinking before the game hey we might not win this game yeah oh yeah for sure the other games like it was just the the sheer size that Duke had in that game or on that team and the athleticism it was just like we didn't have any rim protectors we didn't have like we were literally trying to double team them with a with with a 6'8 and a 6'5 dude like I mean you're you're laughing because it's just like it's crazy how we won that game it was it was it was a masterpiece on our part a lot of great dudes on that uh Carolina team but also on Duke as well that was Grayson Allen's last year too at Duke Joel Berry really do enjoy the work that you're doing you'll be in the studio in the studio on Saturday Luke Hancock give us give him our best and if Jim Boeheim shows up the same as well uh appreciate you spending the time with us yes sir always a pleasure thanks for having me