Take The Stairs (12-1-23)

This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast.

We're internet sensations, guys! Tune into The Drive weekday afternoons, 3 to 7 on WSJS. Together, you're on The Drive with Josh Graham.

We've made it to a Friday Drive. It is WSJS News Talk Sports for the Triad, where it is a very special show ahead of a very special weekend. With Auburn basketball visiting App State on Sunday afternoon, we are here in Boone, up on the mountain, sitting inside the home center, where the game's going to be played in a couple of days. Meanwhile, as we're speaking with you right now, the football team is currently in-flight to Troy, Alabama. That's for tomorrow's Sunbelt Championship game. And even though App State is a six-point underdog in the game, you should fully expect the Mountaineers to win it. And when they do, expect Sean Clark doing the post-game interview, just like the JMU win, saying, do not call this an upset. This is what App State football is about.

Before we get into the matchup, let's just look at this at a thousand-foot view. Nobody is playing better in the Sunbelt than App State is right now. Five straight wins, including the overtime victory in Harrisonburg when college game day was at JMU. Nobody else has beaten JMU the entire season, as we know. App State did, and then in the other four wins, not only did they win those games, W.D., they won by a combined margin, or let's put it a different way, an average margin of 22 points per win.

They're not just winning, they're blowing out folks. App was much more battle-tested in the regular season than Troy was. Just look at the standings. Yes, it's easy to see Troy is at home, Troy is 10-2. Troy deserves to be in the game. The only reason App's there is because of JMU not being postseason eligible because of those big, bad NCAA bureaucrats. But then, when you look at who Troy's played, Troy's the only team in the entire West division of the Sunbelt that has a winning league record.

They're the only ones. You look at the bottom of the league standings in the Sunbelt West, there's an 0-8 team, there's a 2-6 team. Do you know how many 2-6 teams there are in the East? None. Nobody's worse than 3-5. Four of the seven teams have winning records in the East. App State has to play all of them. You know how many Troy has to face?

Zero. And when they do, it's JMU, and they lose the game. Troy, out of conference, went up against 1-5.

How did it go? Lost to K-State by a million. App State goes to North Carolina on the road. And, of course, falls short, but falls short in overtime. Probably should have won the game.

Went all the way to Laramie, where things get weird, and weird it got. If it wasn't for a block kick for a touchdown, the first time that's ever happened in Wyoming's history, App wins that game. App's never been blown out in a game this year. Troy has. And Troy's not playing the competition that App State has this year.

The kids have that term that they're built different. App State built different because of what their program is, participating in three of the five conference championship games that we've seen in the Sundell over the years. And on top of that, playing a better schedule and more prepared for this moment, it seems. If you want the football X's and O's breakdown, trends are very important. Yes, App State struggled against the run in the regular season.

When Sean Clark joined us on yesterday's show, that's the first thing he pointed to. We're going to have to stop that running back. That running back's name is Kamani Vidal. He is seventh in the country in rushing yards. App State, 99th out of 130 teams against the run.

Oh, no. That must mean that the Mountaineers can't stop a run, and they run the ball really well. This is going to be a problem, especially if it's bad weather conditions like it's expected to be in Troy. But that takes the entire season as a whole. When App was struggling before the turnaround of these last five games and what we're talking about, when you look at the season total, like take this in perspective, App State is 99th in the country against the run, allowing 170 rushing yards a game. And that includes how well they've played of late, which is not nearly allowing 170 a game. The last two, they allowed less than 100 yards, and three of the last four, less than 110. So a lot of those rushing totals baked into the pie before you even got to mid-October.

Look at the way you're playing right now, and nobody's playing better than App. And then when you look at Vidal, yay, seventh in the nation in rushing yards, but not because of what he's done over the last month. Three of the last five games held to under 75 yards rushing. There are some rumors out there that maybe some guys on defense for Troy might be entering the transfer portal. You're going to hear a lot of that between now and Monday as the portal continues to get loaded, get filled up.

Do you know who's not going to be in the portal? Joey Aguilar, who's top 20 in the nation in passing yards. If some of those key defensive players have their eye on Monday, or maybe don't even play in this game altogether, that's going to help the Mountaineers too. So give me App State to win the game outright. Yesterday, we did do Graham's gamble and we gave out App State plus six.

You get cash out, fam. More on that JC Horn guy in a second. App State 27, Troy 20. The Mountaineers win a Sunbelt title. Will Dalton is the executive producer of this show back in Winston-Salem.

W.D., got gear for you here. Let's go. Courtesy of App State basketball.

I got App State football stuff on right now. That's right. There you go. We love that. We love the dry fit material. I'm wearing some right now.

Got my football hoodie as well on the way because I watched Ace Ventura. Yeah, that's right. Thank you for doing that.

That's the reason why we have this here. I might need to get some App State basketball gear before it's all said and done. I'm going to shamelessly try to do that when Dustin Kearns joins us a little bit later on in the show We're on X at WSJS radio.

It's where we're streaming video in addition to YouTube and on Twitch, Darren Gant, I guess, on today's show. We've got both basketball coaches dropping by as we've got a lot to do on today's show. At the same time, App State will be tipping things off against Auburn and hoops on Sunday. The Carolina Panthers will be in Tampa facing the Buccaneers.

That's right. The Panthers are still playing football games. Even as they're looking for a head coach and it's been a tumultuous week, maybe this is just being optimistic. And while looking out a window in front of me, I don't see the sun. It's been an overcast day and it's been rainy much of the day.

All I see is sunshine when we're talking about our locals. Which isn't normally me, WD. I'm the type of guy that's having people look up while Wake basketball is warming up on Wednesday or having their shoot around by saying I think the Deeks are gonna lose to Florida only to be wrong a few hours after that.

We're not necessarily in the pandering business. If I think App State's gonna win, I think they're gonna win and I think they are. In the Panthers case, the circumstances are right for a Carolina Panthers win Sunday.

We are on the Panthers to get win number two because even if it doesn't make sense at face value, it makes football sense and here's why. With Frank Reich fired, you should expect a looser, more dangerous team. Like listen to Thomas Brown yesterday. He kind of hinted at this saying that, hey, there is some evidence that guys were playing uptight as the pressure heightened on their coach. Overall, just being able to get our guys to just relax and go cut it loose. I think I kind of addressed the guy yesterday as far as a feeling of sometimes being wound up too tight or afraid to make mistakes and just get these guys back to having fun, being confident, playing good ball. Play loose, let it loose.

That's what they need to do. And how's this for a stat? Six and three are interim coaches in their first game since 2020. Since 2020, six and three are interim coaches in their first game. Guys play looser, guys are ready to go.

It's been pointed out to me that the sun just came out as I'm talking about this right in front of me. You could probably tell on our video stream there. So there's the optimism and you're playing a Tampa Bay team that's lost back to back and losers of six of their last seven games. The Bucks, here's the main football thing to keep an eye on. The Bucks are by far the worst pass defense that Bryce Young has played so far. They are second to last in the NFL and Bryce hasn't played another team that's in the bottom five. When you look at the teams that he's faced that are ranked in the 20s, so like the bottom third of pass defenses in the league, Bryce had his best games offensively, including the win against Houston.

So expect Bryce to have some success. Health is gonna be a factor on defense in this game. J.C. Horn questionable to return for Carolina. CJ Henderson practicing this week, coming off the concussion too. Meanwhile, for the Buccaneers, you hear about a middle of the pack team when it comes to sacks, are they gonna eat against the Panthers? Maybe they're D linemen do, but do you know who won't be? Lavonte David and Devin White, both are out for Sunday's game. So it strangely, even though Carolina only has one win, it strangely sets up well for the Panthers. They haven't scored 20 points since mid-October. I say they do on Sunday and win the game, 20 to 17 on the road in Tampa. So we got the Mountaineers as underdogs.

We got the Panthers as underdogs. Out right. Since we're here at the home center, it's only right, we welcome in the best host there is in terms of like welcoming us into his home. And that is App State head coach.

Head coach Dustin Kearns from the men's side that's joining us now. Thanks for welcoming us, I guess, into your place. I like your digs.

Josh, it's always great to be with you and be on the drive. You took, the first thing I said to you when you walked up was what was your method of walking up to this setup that we have here? Knowing the answer was that you took the stairs. This is something that you and I have in common.

Rory Vaden wrote the book and it's something that was a meaningful book in my life. But if you want to do the quick cliff's note version of what the mantra take the stairs is from and the overall message of the book, what might it be? Yeah, you know what it really just sums it up is at the end of the day, most people want it easy. And 95% of the people in the world are going to take the easy route.

All right. And so it's not, it's a mentality. It's about training your mind to do what's needed at that moment. And most of the time that's going to be the hardest thing.

And so it's a take the stairs mentality. And, you know, certainly we've tried to instill it in our program. When did you first read the book? About a year before I became the head coach at Presbyterian. And it just, it resonated with me as far as my journey in coaching, but also like what did I want our teams to be about and, you know, have something. I think any good organization, any good program, business has a something that they, their employees, their team members can really reference constantly.

And I don't think it can be 48 things. And so it was just, when I became the head coach at Presbyterian, I talked about taking the stairs and coaching. And I thought that, you know, we're going to take the stairs as a program as well.

And then we just brought it here as well. It's not an exaggeration on my end to say that it was one of the more meaningful reads of my life because it was the spring of 2012 that I read it. And I was in college and I was set to go do what Rory did when he was younger and selling books door to door with the Southwestern company.

And I was shipped off to Texas, drove in my car from North Carolina to Texas and 80 hours a week, Dustin Kern, six days a week for about 13 hours a day, 8.30 in the morning till 9.30 at night, knocking on doors when it was 105 outside. That was the inspiration, taking the stairs. And to this day, when I go through airports and all this, and I see the stairs there, I always take them.

Oh, same here. And I think that you definitely took the stairs. And I think that at the end of the day, it's rolling your sleeves up and doing work the old fashioned way, you know, and actually doing it and enjoying the process of the work in whatever it is, selling books, whatever you do in life.

And I think certainly it can become a mentality. I always enjoy when former players at Presbyterian or App State, you know, I hear from them afterwards and they talk about, they have a moment like that. And coach, I just keep hearing, take the stairs, take the stairs.

And it really helped me get through that interview or trying to get the job or whatever it may be. W.D., pick up the book, okay? Rory Vaden's, Take the Stairs. It's done. I love to read books, so I'm in for it. It's one of the best reads there is.

It's still in my house somewhere. Dustin Kerns is with us here. And I'll use that as a transition to say, maybe a take the stairs type mindset is scheduling Auburn on the schedule, even though they're coming to your place and we could get to the significance of that in a bit. But facing an SEC team, you've never been shy, whether it's going to Cameron, the Smith Center, or wherever, to playing the top-notch opponents.

Yeah, I think that's the mindset you got to have. And I think when we took over this program, that was a mindset we took is to be a part of big games, to be a part of games, to elevate App State basketball, to raise awareness, to raise the profile of the university and the visibility of basketball and to change the perception of App State basketball. To win big games, you got to play in big games. And we opened at Michigan that year. Like you said, we played at Duke, North Carolina.

We've played a lot of regional opponents. We renewed ETSU that hadn't happened in 10 years before we got here instantly right away. And so that's the mindset we took. And you know, here we are, right? I think that, and this hasn't happened in 23 years.

No. And so, but that's the mindset we took when we took over the program and that we're going to continue stair by stair to elevate App State basketball. And first ever national TV game in the home center.

And you know, this is what we, this is the fun in it. Are there going to be emotions that come along with it when you see everywhere walking across campus today and around the facilities? The football team plays a Sunbelt Championship game tomorrow and all everybody's talking about is App State basketball on Sunday. So when you're getting ready for that game on Sunday, one o'clock here at the home center, what do you think is going to be going through you?

Yeah, I don't know. I think that, I think it would be coach talk to sit here and tell you that, hey, this is going to be like any other game. It's not like any other game.

Okay. And so I'm not going to sit here and coach talk you. You don't have an Auburn SEC program at your place every day. You don't have a national ESPN game at your game every day.

You don't have a sellout at your place every day. And so, you know, I don't know. You know, I think that it's going to be rewarding for a lot of people, you know, to see this place full, to see this place on national television, to see this kind of game. Like this is what we've been, you know, working for. It's been a lot of work by a lot of people. Have you used some of the contacts you have in coaching to say, hey, if Auburn's willing to come up here, why not the teams that are a little bit closer down the road?

I have, and I have continued to get told no, you know. So we'll just keep plugging away. Why did Bruce Pearl say yes? You know, to give him credit, this is not the first time that he's done this. And he was a mid-major coach. And if you go back through their schedule and in the future, he has done a true road game almost every year, or at least every other year at a place like ours. And he said he really prepares his team to go play a true road game.

And he wants to do it in front of sellouts at mid-majors. And so they did it with Murray State. They did it with South Alabama. They did it with Coastal Carolina.

They're now it's with us. And I think they go to Georgia State next year. And so, you know, I think that that's his different mindset.

And I think I respect his philosophy. And we got to go to Auburn again next year. And so he agreed to go there twice.

I don't mind doing that because once again, I wanted this kind of game at home. There's another mid-major, or coach that coached a mid-major for quite a bit that's in the state that wears black and gold as well. I told him earlier this week, Bruce Pearl was headed up the mountain.

Steve Forbes, let's make it happen. Let's get Wake Forest basketball up here, figure it out. A lot of App State fans in Winston would love to see the Mountaineers and the Joel. And, you know, come back up here to the mountain too.

His former assistant, Brooke Savage, playing here on Wednesday night. Now, it's a tough place to play here at the home center. But that's the place, that's a series, I think, that makes sense. But outside of the power schools, are there other local rivalries that you would like to foster and have something with regularity? Yeah, I think that, you know, that's always been strategic of ours is to play around the state. You know, I don't know if our people realize this, but the entire month of December, we don't leave the state of North Carolina. And so, after exams, when our students go home, we are strategically playing in Charlotte, with a series with Queens. Then we're going to Greensboro to play a neutral game with Gardner Webb. And then we're playing in Hickory against UNC Asheville.

So three really good programs in the state and around the state. You know, all that strategic, we're open to playing anybody in the state. Obviously, we've already played UNC Wilmington, you know, played a long time rival there with ETSU.

But yeah, certainly that is what we would aspire to do. On the way out with Dustin Kearns. See, I'm wearing some App State football gear right now. And the reason why is our producer, WD, over there, Sean Clark told him that if he watched Ace Ventura at some point over the last week, that he'd give us some gear. Because he's seen none of the good movies.

We're getting there now. So, Sean always throws movies at him. Because of Sean, you've seen Beverly Hills Cop.

That's right. You've seen Fletch. And I've seen Ace Ventura. Seen Ace Ventura. So we're checking a lot of boxes here. Dustin Kearns, rather than you telling me your favorite movie, what movie do you think you've seen more than any movie?

Like it's on, I'm watching it. There's two that come to mind. What's that? No Country for Old Men. Whoa!

Is one that if comes on, it's hard for me to turn the channel. Excellent pick. And then the other one is American Gangster, Denzel Washington. I think anything Denzel Ben's really good at.

So here's what you need to know. Speaking of Steve Forbes. WD, it's gotten to the point where he, we don't even ask him if he knows the movie anymore.

Because it's just, he hasn't, he has a sounder that plays that's from Coach Forbes anytime he doesn't know a movie. So let's try this. American Gangster. My man. Well.

There you go. And do you even know what No Country for Old Men is? I've heard of it. I'm not sure if I've seen it though. See?

Like I might have, I don't know. You gotta go watch those two. That's one of the best movies of the last 20 years. Baby 30. Who's in that? Josh Brolin, Tommy Lee Jones. Oh, it's an awesome movie. Woody Harrelson. Yes! Yes!

And Javier Bardem, an excellent villain in that movie. We'll put that on the poll next week. That's what we'll do. Dustin Kearns, go get yourself a win.

One o'clock Sunday against the Auburn Tigers. Really do appreciate you having us here at the home center. Hope we can do it again sometime soon. Appreciate you having me on here as always, Josh, on the drive. And also I want to give a shout out to our football team. Rallying and getting to the Sunbelt Championship game. Let's get that championship on Saturday and let's celebrate everybody here with a double celebration on Sunday here.

Love the idea of that. Dustin Kearns, take the stairs back down to the floor and we'll talk to you soon. Go down there, take the stairs. Instead of just talking, why don't you listen?

That's why you have people call in. Listen for a minute. Oh, welcome back to the Happy Circle. The Drive with Josh Graham. And Nick lost it.

Able to get it back. This is some sloppiness. This be pennies from heaven. Oh my goodness! Chicken salad deluxe. What was that?

Chicken salad deluxe? How does Eric Collins come up with this stuff? The man's a legend. Nobody calls a dunk better than he calls dunks. That's why when I had a vote for an SMA, North Carolina Sportscaster of the Year, honored to be a finalist, by the way, for our state.

That was pretty cool. But EC was my top vote. I don't think he's ever won. I think he should. He's one of the most talented announcers that you have in basketball. And it's got to the point where people just put together dunk calls from a game, a compilation of his. Like if you go on YouTube, one of the first things that comes up from Hornets nets is Eric Collins or Hornets announcer. Stop calling him that. Just call him by his name.

His name's Eric Collins. Dunk calls get better by each one. And yeah, there were some good ones last night. Chicken salad! The Hornets, that is what I ask for when I go to like Zaxby's on a normal day, like when I'm trying to go light, I get like their salad, which if you're wondering what that is, W.D., that's the part where you hit the clip again. Chicken salad deluxe!

That's what I order. Okay, getting to the Hornets last night. They played a perfect basketball game.

Like this is obviously lesser stakes. This is like Villanova 85 national title game against a much more talented, you know, Georgetown squad shooting 79% or whatever it was to figure out a way to win that game. The Hornets, here's what they did from the floor last night.

50% from the field, 59% from three, 100% from the free throw line. And they still needed Cam Johnson, former Tar Heel, to miss this wide open look at the buzzer as called by our friend, Ian Eagle on the Yes Network. Nets are down by one, three seconds, two seconds. Johnson, no good! Charlotte holds on for the win.

Nets had a clean look, could not convert. WD needs more of a thinking man's picture. You're watching JFK next week.

Excited. Maybe no country for old men the week after that per Dustin Kearns' recommendation. We'll see if that ends up winning the vote.

That probably will have my vote. But a big win for the Hornets. They did it without LaMelo, without Brandon Miller. 37 points, 13 assists for Terry Rozier.

A lot of people forget that that dude can drop buckets if he needs to. The Canes, they earned a point in the final seconds. Here's how it sounded on the national broadcast.

Steve Levy on ESPN Plus. Ojo trying to set it. Here's Burns, shot blocked, side of the net. Arlovo, another save, and the team is in! Arlovo stopped the first one and couldn't stop the second, with seven tenths of a second remaining. Carolina has tied it for the board!

I specifically say they earned that point. It is. It is.

It is. I forgot about that. Not going to say they stole a point because they outshot the Islanders three to one. Lost the game.

Piotr Kicek got struggling a bit. Carolina loses the game in overtime, but they still get the point. Then you got the Dallas-Seattle game, as heard on WSJS.

Huh, what a novel concept. When teams aren't playing on short rest on a Thursday night, you get a better game. Dallas and Seattle both played on Thanksgiving. They had the full week to prepare for a game, and it was a shootout. Like, if both those teams played on Sunday, you're not getting 41-35 in an exciting game. Both of them a winning record. Missed opportunity for Seattle.

Jackson, Smith, and Jigba looked fantastic again, but Dallas 9-3 now on the season. You know who they have next? The Philadelphia Eagles. That'll be a good one.

Next on the schedule. Tough one for the Eagles this week. Two best teams in the NFC meeting.

The Eagles hosting the 49ers on Sunday. Let's get to the chaos that could ensue. The college football playoff. This might be the most chaotic final weekend we've ever seen in the 14 playoff era, and it's the last weekend of the 14 playoff era.

So here's what I want you to do, W.D. Let's go through five scenarios of things that potentially could happen. Chaos, disaster scenarios. You give me the scenario, and then I'll tell you the four teams that make the playoff from what you get.

All right, first scenario. Bama wins, Oregon wins, Florida State wins, Texas wins. So Alabama, a lot of these chaos scenarios are probably going to have Alabama pulling off the upset against Georgia. I think Michigan would be number one because Georgia lost. Florida State would be number two because they won, and they're unbeaten. You said Oregon wins, so Texas winning would have them number three because you have to put them in front of Alabama who won the SEC in this scenario. Texas went into Tuscaloosa, beat them by double digits.

That has to count for something. So I think in this instance, even though Oregon beat Washington, and their only loss is to Washington in the scenario you gave, I think that's the one scenario that the Pac-12 gets left out. That for the first time ever, a one loss conference champion in the playoff era would get left out. I think they put Bama in with one loss in SEC champ over Oregon, a one loss Pac-12 champ. The next scenario, Georgia wins, Washington wins, Florida State loses, Texas also loses. Is it fair to assume every one of these scenarios, because you're not mentioning Michigan, that they just win? That's fair to assume. They're 22 point favorites, so you don't even have to mention Michigan beating Iowa. Let's just assume that level of chaos is not going to happen. That's a 20 plus point favorite.

So let's just acknowledge that up front. So you said Georgia wins, Washington wins. FSU loses, Texas loses.

Oh, OK. That's interesting. So Georgia would get in, Michigan would be second. You said Florida State loses, so Washington would get the third spot unbeaten. And I think they'd put Ohio State in over, I guess, in this instance would be, I don't even know who the fifth team would be. Over one loss, Florida State.

Yeah, one loss, Florida State. They put Ohio State in. That's the scenario for Ohio State. I think they might need Texas to lose in order for it to happen, because I think they put Texas in with a conference championship and the win over Alabama.

I think they put them in over Ohio State, who's been idle. But that's the scenario for the Buckeyes. Alabama wins, Washington wins. Florida State also wins, Texas also wins. Oh, this is the scenario that I think we're all rooting for. This is the scenario where no SEC team gets in.

And I think it's the only one. So Michigan would get the one spot. Washington would get the two with the win. Florida State would get in with the win unbeaten. And Texas would get in over SEC champion Alabama, because Texas has that head-to-head win against the Tide in Tuscaloosa by double digits. You'd have to put them in over Bama.

You're not going to include both of them. You're not going to put two one-loss teams ahead of unbeaten Florida State. And you're not going to put a one-loss Georgia in either if they're not the champion. So maybe there's some possibility for Georgia over Texas.

I don't see it. I think that's the scenario that the SEC would get snowed out. All right, this involves three teams. Bama wins. Florida State loses. Texas also loses. So I guess it wouldn't matter who won out of Washington and Oregon.

So yeah, I won it. Michigan would be the number one. The winner of Washington-Oregon would be two. I think you put Bama three and Georgia number four if that's the scenario that you lay out. That's the way that two SEC teams get in, is if Oregon wins, I think they'd put Georgia in over Oregon.

I do. Bama beat Georgia, so they'd be over that. Or pardon me, no, Oregon-Washington winner would be number two. And Florida State would be out. You'd have Texas not a part of this with the loss.

Wow, you chose a really good one. That's a good scenario. I think you'd have two SEC teams that get in, and the Pac-12 winner would be number two. Well, let's throw Michigan in here, why don't we? Let's throw them. Oh, if you want to do one Michigan loses example?

Yeah, let's cook a thing and throw it in here. Michigan loses. Georgia, Florida State, and Texas all win.

OK. So Florida State wins. Georgia wins. Texas wins. And Michigan loses. And someone has to win between Washington and Oregon. I think you just did it, WD.

I didn't think it was possible. But I think that is the scenario where Michigan does not make the playoff. If Michigan loses to Iowa. I mean, that's bad.

It's really bad. They're 20 plus point favorites. You would definitely put Georgia, Florida State, and Texas in over them, and the Washington-Oregon winner, because none of them would have a loss as bad as that loss is. That's the scenario that Michigan doesn't get in. If they lose and FSU and Texas take care of their business, that's the scenario that we don't see them. Boy. It's wild.

Really? The two games, the two results that would present the most chaos is if Alabama wins and if Oregon wins. If both those things happen, Lord knows what's going to happen Sunday at noon.

Can't wait. Because while I think there's no shot that Florida State gets bumped out if they win because of the quality of the win they would get, like remember, sure, they'll say, oh, it was without Jordan Travis that they beat LSU and Clemson on the road. Well, I mean, other SEC teams are going to get credit for beating Florida on the road. And then Louisville's ranked 14th. So if you're unbeaten and you have quality wins and we have precedent of Ohio State getting in with one loss to a 6 and 6 Hokie team in 2014 at home and they have their third string quarterback, I think Florida State would deserve the benefit of the doubt. But if Alabama wins, like FSU is the biggest Georgia fans outside of Athens in America because there's not a scenario FSU gets bumped out, period, unless Alabama wins and they have to decide, is it the Seminoles with their second or third string quarterback or an SEC team getting in? Like if that's the choice, FSU or an SEC team getting in or left out, I don't know if the committee does the right thing. I don't either. I don't trust them enough to say that. The Drive with Josh Graham, only on WSJS.

Should we move on to the main event? We're here at the home center. Already have visited with Dustin Kearns and Angel Elderkin to hoop coaches that call this building home. And now we go to App State alum, our friend Darren Gantt, Panthers.com Hall of Fame voter. Darren, I don't want to age you too much here, but when were you a student at Appalachian State?

I don't think we've discussed this before. I could say the 90s because that would technically be true, but also the 80s. So yeah, I was in there. I graduated in 93-ish. Let's say that.

So we'll just leave it there. What were your favorite sports memories as a student? You know what? I remember it was a different time. I mean, we actually had a pretty good basketball team at that point also. And it always felt like we were running second in the Southern Conference to somebody. That was during the Calvin Talford, Mr. Jennings era of East Tennessee State basketball or, you know, and we had some good stuff.

I remember I was at the very last event I covered for the Appalachian. The student newspaper was our upset of Nebraska in basketball with Coach Denny and Eric Piatkowski was a wooden award candidate coming into that game. And we had a young gentleman named Ricky Ned who put the clamps on him. And I think Piatkowski scored about eight that night. So Ricky Ned was one of those guys basketball coaches could say he's like Michael Jordan, except he can't shoot.

But Ned could play some defense. And he got all up on Eric Piatkowski. And we sent the Cornhuskers packing from Varsity Gym that night. I don't know the travel schedule, the itinerary for you guys heading to Tampa. Panthers, Bucks, one o'clock on Sunday. That's the same time that App State, hashtag take the stairs, is gonna be facing Auburn here at the home center. Biggest game they've had here in 23 years and maybe even further than that, Bruce Pearl going up the mountain. And then tomorrow you have the Sunbelt Championship game on ESPN, a four o'clock kick with the Mountaineers going to Troy. How locked in are you gonna be on the Mountaineers while trying to do some of your professional work? We will definitely keep it up. What time is the football game kickoff?

Say it again. Four o'clock on ESPN tomorrow. Four o'clock, I will definitely get to sunny central Florida in time to catch most of that game, I believe. At least the second half for sure. And I will be locked in, but I'm keeping an eye on the basketball too.

It's kind of funny. I do remember you talking about the biggest game in 23 years, not sure what you're referring to. Maybe it was Cremins bringing Georgia Tech back in.

I don't know if that's what you're going for. I was there, I think Cremins brought Tech back in the same day there was a playoff game, maybe against Stephen F. Austin. And Rick Covington, our old sports information director who I love, Kavo was a beaut. I said to him that day, because I was working at the Gaston Gazette alongside Michael Smith. And I said, you know, Kavo, the last time I was in this press room in Varsity Gym was the night of the Nebraska game. And Kavo just kind of looked at me and he said, what up, Darren? If I knew that was the last time you were here, it would have still been the last time you were here.

That's why we love Kavo. Yeah, but you should know that App State made the tournament 23 years ago. And that was a long drought.

They had not been back to the tournament until Dustin Burns did so a couple of seasons back. So he's turning himself around. I have to remind myself that 23 years ago was 2000 and not sometime in the nineties or eighties like I'm thinking, because I am now an old man. Here you go.

You want me to bring it back on topic? Here's how old I am. I am Chris Tabor years old. I was doing, yeah, I wrote a big profile of Chris Tabor. I encourage you all to read it at panthers.com. Talk to his family, talk to people who've known him when he was coming up in St. Joseph, Missouri, including one Mike Rucker who was coached by Chris Tabor's father, Don Tabor. So it's a neat story.

You should absolutely check it out. But while I was looking it up, I knew roughly how old Rucker was. And I was four or five years older than Ruck when he was playing and I was covering the team for the Rock Hill Herald and I looked up Tabor and I was like, gosh, he's 52. Wait a minute, I'm 52.

So it was a little bit of a take me back moment because Chris certainly he gives off that wholesome Midwestern energy that makes you think he's from the happy days era or maybe even leave it to Beaver. You're also giving me a good opportunity to tease the old, ask the old man mailbag that you do as well for panthers.com. That old man's Darren Gant joining us now, panthers.com, Hall of Fame voter.

We'll get to the semifinalists that were announced this week for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. But I've been asked- By the way, if you ever become a friend of the mailbag, if you've ever wondered what the appropriate honorarium is, get a load of that, will you? How do we, are we friendly enough to get a friend of the mailbag gear? Maybe, we'll see.

Is there the drive gear that we can exchange? This is how we work it here. We're working on it. All right, you let me know how that's going.

So anyway, where were we? How about we get to the football real quick? I don't think Doug Gillum will mind me sharing this, AppStateAD, saw him today. He knows how much I cover the Panthers. First question he asked me, they gonna go back to our guy? Steve Wilks gonna go back to our guy? And I just wonder, what is more unlikely with that circumstance with the Panthers job now opening up? Steve Wilks having an interest in returning given how that went, or the Panthers giving him a phone call? What's more- Well, I mean, that's a fair question. And people have asked me that a lot over the last couple of days. And I do think it's reasonable because when you consider what Steve did coming down the stretch last year, he sort of made his case.

And I think I would be, I'm trying to think of how to say this without getting fired. I think it's reasonable to suggest that what they really want is an offensive coach. They're not gonna box themselves in, if the right guy pops up, all those things. But I think the idea of going into last year and hiring a Frank Reich, putting together this all-star coaching staff to do offense was to maximize the return on the number one pick in Bryce Young. So I don't think if that was the plan 10 months ago, you change directions now. I mean, it feels like this will be an extension or hopefully an improvement on what they did last off season.

I think it's better to be reflective, probably better for your employment than to be speculative about what might happen next. So when you look at what happened with Frank Reich and really just this year, what do you think the greatest blind spot was in terms of things that we didn't see coming in the off season, whether it be scheme and maybe it feels like a conflation of offensive mindedness, meaning innovative or creative. And again, I can tell you, and I addressed this in the mailbag the other day, the aforementioned mailbag. For all the talk about diversity of thought, there was never a time when that offense looked like a coherent whole of anything. I mean, they tried some different things every now and then, but at any time, there were too many times this year when there would be that one drive where they get a long touchdown drive or something and you're like, okay, well, that's what it's supposed to look like. And then they never do those things again. And those happened often at the start of games or halves.

So I think there was some problems. I mean, when they got into situations where they had to adapt and adjust, they went right back to the things Frank had always done. And especially in those last couple of weeks after he took play calling back from Thomas Brown. I just, there were opportunities to adapt, there were opportunities to change, there were opportunities to evolve and they just never did.

Ultimately, they kept trying to do the same stuff that was a weird fit for the personnel. You and I have talked before, I think one of the signs in hindsight that this thing had the potential to get off the rails was you go out and free agency and you sign Miles Sanders and Bradley Boseman. You can justify either one of those signings individually because if you're gonna run outside zone, then Miles Sanders has done that in Philadelphia. He's that kind of back. But if you wanna be the same kind of power downhill running team you were last year, Bradley Boseman was the guy at the middle of it all. Bose is a big 325 pound hoss who is not going to get out there and pull and get to the second level and get on that linebacker.

He's just not physically built for that. So I mean, in hindsight, that was probably the canary in the coal mine to tell us, yeah, this is a little off and that's the thing. For all the parts, putting all the different philosophies into place, which I still believe is a valid way of doing business.

I think in general, you collect as many smart people and put them on a problem and let them figure out a solution. The problem was it never looked like anything other than the one thing. Darren Gant with us here, you and I, I don't mind saying a thing that might go against the grain and be unpopular against sentiment. And I'll give you an example, the Bryce Young, Caleb Williams, Drake May conversation. We've discussed that before of how the next thing's always more appealing than the right now. Oh yeah, the best draft class in NFL history is next year's draft class.

Yeah, and how does that look right now? Give me Bryce Young as a prospect over Drake May and over Caleb Williams. That's starting to age better. People are starting to catch up with that take. Another one that we hear ever since Monday is, who's gonna want to take the Carolina Panthers job? And my thought is, I think the job today is more attractive than it was a year ago. And this is why, if you were to take the job a year ago, you need to know who your quarterback is and you have the ninth pick.

And even if you do get the quarterback you want, you can't get him in your building until May. There are a lot of people who like Bryce Young and still like Bryce Young for good reason. Whatever the next coach is, you can find a coach who likes Bryce Young.

There are many of them. The day you take the job is the day you get to meet him and work with him. And I think that alone probably makes it appealing. And also the last two guys being owed 30 and $40 million left on their deal probably doesn't hurt either. Yeah, Dave's always gonna be able to pay coaches, whoever he wants and that kind of stuff. But I think the last time you and I talked, we were referencing the Bill Polian, Bruce Arians piece about Bryce. And in that story, Polian specifically said, Bryce will make his biggest jump from year one to year two. This off season will be the time he gets to dig in. And he talked about that. He said, he was spending all February, March, April, flying around, going to workouts, training, doing this, that and the other, going to the combine and not working on his football. And he's gonna have an opportunity ostensibly sometime in February, once I get a coach in here to begin working on his football then. And again, you don't have to trust me. Bill Polian's got a gold jacket instead of a black and gold today I give my all shirt.

So I just think that's the opportunity. I mean, and here's the other thing because of the offensive dysfunction. Here's another hot take for you. Iki Iquanu doesn't stink. He didn't forget how to play football. He didn't forget how to pass block. We tend to lose sight of the fact that from weeks three through 11 or 12 last year, he went 10 games without giving up a sack after he gave up three in the first two to Miles Garrett and Thibodeau. So I think because there were things in the offensive design that did not help the offensive line in pass protection.

You know, whether it's the depth of Bryce's drops or different things they were doing schematically kind of set Iki and some of those guys up to be in bad positions. Real quickly, anything surprise you with the semi-finalist? Hall of Fame. I don't think any big surprises.

I mean, we've talked about this before. I think Julius should go in by acclimation this time. I just think he's two time all decade players. The only non-special teams of people who have ever been on two all-decade teams and aren't in the Hall of Fame are Julius Peppers, Tom Brady, and Bill Belichick, and the last two aren't eligible yet.

Steve's up. Any other first-ballot guys could get in with Peppers? I'm not so moved by Antonio Gates' career. I mean, to me, and we've talked about this, I think if you're going to say first-ballot Hall of Fame, it needs to be like Julius and above. It needs to be Reggie White, Steve Young, Joe Montana, you know, those kind of guys, immediate Hall of Famers. Yeah, and I think with Antonio Gates, it's at least reasonable to wonder, okay, how does he compare to the guys who are coming behind him like Gronkowski, like eventually Kelsey and a bunch of other people? So, without two or three slam-dunk candidates out of the five modern day that will get in on a given year, do you think this is the year finally that we see that wide receiver log jam start to take a hammer to, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt, Matt Johnson, Steve Smith? Yeah, one would think, and it took like five years for us to push through the Tim Brown, Chris Carter, Andre Reed log jam that was the same thing.

So, I would suppose at least one, if not two of those guys might push through this year, because, again, as you said, there's not a strong bunch of first-year people. Gates, sure, I mean, he's definitely talent, definitely worthy of it at some point. I just don't feel compelled to say he's one of the greats of all time who you can't write the history of the game without immediately. He was a Hall of Famer, no question, but there's some other interesting ones to me. Patrick Willis is of particular interest to me because a person who has the exact same resume as Patrick Willis is eligible next year, and he's a guy you might know a little better. AJ Klein?

Yeah, look! David Mayo. Yeah, David Mayo, thank you. Darin Gant, good to see you. Good to be in your digs here at Appalachian State. Good to be a Mountaineer.