Roy's Greatest UNC Teams (6-9-20)

We've got plenty of ACC basketball and football today on a Tuesday drive.

We're gonna do NFL over-unders, starting with the AFC in a few minutes, but I want to start with hoops. Because I believe there's one specific reason North Carolina's gonna be a serious contender in the ACC next year. I don't know if the heels have one solid shooter, but the front line is national title level good.

And whenever Roy has a title contender, they've always gone through the post. Bradley, Bradley being a one-and-done, people forget about that. Meeks, he should have been the Final Four MVP because North Carolina, against both Oregon and Gonzaga, could not shoot for a lick. And if it wasn't for Meeks' rebounding, there's no chance that they end up pulling out that game against Oregon, and they probably lose to Gonzaga too.

Roy Williams, he relies on the big man in order to run his team, in order to get things the way they want them to be each and every single season. So I think next year's team's gonna have a chance. Now, I like Virginia and Duke a little bit more. I think they're all national title quality good. There are too many questions with the Tar Heels in the backcourt for me to say the heels are better than the Blue Devils or the Cavaliers, but this frontcourt, it's among the best that Roy's ever had. He has an all-ACC elder statesman in Garrison Brooks.

I went through some of the numbers. He was second team all-ACC last year, making him just the sixth returning first or second all-ACC big man under Roy Williams. The other five, pretty good company to share. Sean May, John Henson, Tyler Zeller, James Michael McAdoo, Bryce Johnson, and then there's Garrison.

That's great company. And he might have another level to get to. Roy was speaking to John Rothstein on his podcast yesterday, and he was asked specifically about Garrison, and I thought this answer was pretty illuminating. He's just worked so hard, gotten so much better. He's already gone far past what people expected of him, and I expect him to get even better. But Armando Beckot got some time for us last year, had some good games, had some games that he did look like a freshman, and then at the same time, we got to have Da'Ron Sharp, Walker Kessler coming in as freshmen, and they're big guys who are very gifted. And I think all of those guys will give Garrison help, and we are hopeful that Sterling Manley can get back and be involved as one of our players. Also, he mentioned that Garrison, if they need him to, can play even the three, potentially.

He was moved from the five to the four last year. That seemed to be his natural position, but Roy kind of threw in the conversation that if they need him to play the three, he could do that. And kind of like Leaky Black, you'd ideally want to have him at small forward for his length. He could defend bigs, and he could also defend guards, one of the best perimeter defenders you're going to find at the ACC next year. But if they need him at point guard, when Caleb Love or RJ Davis isn't in there, he can do that as well. Looking at Garrison Brooks' jump, he went from 7.9 points a game his sophomore season to 16.8 with 8.5 rebounds. I'm fascinated to see if there's more he's added to his game. He has that free throw line jumper that's pretty consistent. Free throw shooting is something that's been all over the board.

He'll have a stretch where he goes 16 of 17 from the line, then goes 1 of 19 from the foul line. But if he could shore some of that up and take his game somehow to a next level, the ceiling is the roof, as somebody once said, for this North Carolina basketball team. And I really feel like this underclassmen group is among the best that Roy's ever had. I'd probably put it above any other freshman class, because you're talking about two 5-star players coming in, and Armando Bacot is still an underclassman. He was a 5-star. I'm thrilled he's coming back for North Carolina's chances, but I'm also thrilled, Robert, that he's coming back, so if he does have a big year, just think of all the possibilities we could do with this sound, if Armando continues to have a lot of success.

Robert is the producer of the show, Robert Walsh, you can call us at 336-777-1600, we're on Twitter, at sportsubtriad. I believe in Bacot, I think he wasn't the same player, this is just a working theory I have, since he had the injury against Ohio State. We thought that injury could have been season ending. He didn't end up missing any games, but after that Ohio State game, he wasn't the same promising player that we all expected he would be, watching him play in the Bahamas, watching the first handful of games.

So I don't know for sure he was playing banged up the entire season, but that wouldn't surprise me. Dayron Sharp, I had a chance to broadcast some of his games when he was playing in Eastern North Carolina from South Central High School, top 15 player, I can vouch for his shooting. You're not going to see many polished jump shooters at the 5 come in who are Dayron Sharp's size, so that's going to be something that immediately translates. Walker Kessler, he can be a rotating part, I almost think that Roy can potentially platoon his bigs, which we haven't seen him do really ever. You can have Brooks and Bacot be your starters, along with Kessler and Sharp coming off the bench, and if Sterling Manley can give you anything, that's a massive plus. The only two front courts I would put ahead of this front court for UNC, 2016, because I think that was stronger than the national title team, Bryce Johnson being a part of it, you still have Meeks there, you still have Hicks there, you don't have Tony Bradley, give me Bryce Johnson as a college player over freshman Tony Bradley, and the 2005 team, with 4 lottery picks, 3 being bigs, I don't really think you can do much with that.

Marvin Williams coming off the bench, so those are the only two front courts I think are better than the one this year. Now that doesn't mean they're going to be the favorite to win the ACC, again I like Duke and Virginia a little bit more, I think they're more well rounded, if North Carolina can figure out the shooting, they're right there, they're right there with anybody else in the country. We'll continue to talk about this with Brendan Marks who will join us from the Athletic at the bottom of the hour, I have a Twitter poll that you can vote on, what was Roy Williams most talented UNC team altogether, right now 67% of the vote goes towards the 2009 team, I'll tell you after our conversation with Brendan a little bit later on this hour, who I think the number 1 North Carolina team under Roy is, in fact I'll give you my top 5. Okay, time to get to some of these over-unders, we're going to be doing the AFC today, the NFC tomorrow, Robert since you are a massive Baltimore Ravens fan and the Ravens had the best record in the AFC last year, I think it's only fitting we start with the AFC North. Looking at, by the way, these win totals over-unders brought to you by Caesars, the Baltimore Ravens over-under is 11 and a half, I don't think there's a team in the NFL I feel comfortable putting the over on 11 and a half. So I'm going to go under with the Ravens, now that doesn't mean I don't think they'll win the division, that doesn't mean I don't think they'll make the playoffs, but I think it could be like Lamar's final season at Louisville.

You're trying to stack up against a historically good season, Lamar winning the Heisman and then having a bit of a subpar final year in the ACC, I just don't think Lamar's going to do the same exact thing he did last year, coordinators you got to give them credit, they do a great job of adjusting to things. I also think that it's an underrated division, Pittsburgh, they're going to be better with Big Bennett quarterback, the Browns, they now have a competent head coach I think, and Kevin Stefanski who comes from Minnesota, so I think the Ravens are going to be slightly under 11 and a half. Pittsburgh Steelers, over under 9 wins, I'm going to go slightly over 9 wins, at worst I think this pushes, the Steelers, they were right there in the playoff mix, Robert correct me if I'm wrong, they would have made the playoffs last year if it's the current format we're going to see in 2020. 7 teams per conference, I think the Steelers would have been the last team in right?

Yeah that's correct. Right, so that's with a guy named Duck playing quarterback, and Mason Rudolph. With Ben back in there and all reports are, he looks pretty good, JuJu Smith-Schuster, James Conner, Mike Tomlin, great organization, I'd be surprised if they're under 500 this year so I'm going to go slightly over on the Steelers 9. Cleveland Browns, 8 and a half is the over under, it's got to be over. I know it's Cleveland, but no more excuses for Baker Mayfield who has the weapons and Landry and Odell, great running backs too, a competent coach, great defensive line, just terrific talent all across the board, awesome DBs, it's got to be over for Cleveland unless things are just a disaster.

And if that's the case, Cleveland might just blow up everything if they don't win over 8 games. Then there's the Bengals, I'm going under 5 for Cincy, don't feel awesome about this, but new quarterback, tough division, an unhappy AJ Green, things are going to go south early for Joe Burrow and I don't know if they get better. So I'm going to go under Cincinnati 5 wins. So there you have it, Ravens under the 11 and a half, Steelers over 9, Browns over 8 and a half, and Cincinnati under 5. We're going to be doing AFC over unders the rest of the day, that's the AFC North, and even though we're not going to do the NFC until tomorrow, I have a sneak peak here. I have the exact win total for the Carolina Panthers specifically right now, and I'll tell you what that is next on the drive.

And now, it really is my honor to talk about Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. Obviously, there are injuries and headlines between now and September that can change my mind on things and change football teams altogether, but I've got a win total for the Carolina Panthers this year that I think I feel comfortable saying you can hold me accountable for during the year. I think this is a 5 win team, period. The floor is 3 wins, the ceiling is 7, I'm going to split the difference and say 5-11 Carolina Panthers in that rules first season. Couple of reasons for that. I think they are way behind right now.

I don't think this story is being covered enough in the media, that's why anybody who's been listening to this show probably has noticed I've brought up this point and kind of hammered you over the top with it time and time again. Because you're talking about a new head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, all of which are from college transitioning to the NFL, never been an NFL head coach, Matt Ruhl never has been an offensive coordinator, Joe Brady never has been a defensive coordinator, Phil Snow. No NFL head coaching experience on the entire staff, a new quarterback, no OTAs, no chance to even get together with the team at any point, that's going to hurt. On top of that, 4 of the Panthers 5 captains from last year, no longer on the roster, no other team in the NFL has been affected by the coronavirus more than Carolina.

Secondly, the defense is ill-equipped to win. Cam Newton, the last decade, he's absorbed all the oxygen out of the room. Anytime there's a discussion with Carolina, Cam is usually right at the center of it. Nationally speaking, that's why with him being such a polarizing quarterback, he was often discussed when the Panthers were brought up and usually fans react to the national media more than they do the local media.

Cam, he gets all the attention. Luke Kuechly, I think, hasn't got enough for no longer being on the team. I think he's the most irreplaceable player from last year's team.

How do you replace just know-how? How do you replace having a coach essentially on the field? How do you replace maybe the best middle linebacker in the last 10 years?

I get he wasn't as personable as Cam, not nearly as polarizing, but on the football field, I don't know how you rein that in. This secondary is bad. Eli Apple isn't going to fix it, and this is a pretty awful division to be in when you're bad against the pass. Tampa Bay was bad against the pass, everything else was pretty good. Aside from Jameis Winston throwing 30 interceptions, but when you look across the NFC South now, you got Breeze, Ryan, and that Tom Brady guy.

Good luck. The schedule doesn't do them any favors. Of course, you have the NFC South with three teams that could potentially make it into the playoffs, albeit I don't think the Falcons are there. I'm not as high on the Falcons as many people are, it seems. The Panthers and the AFC have to play the AFC West. That means you got to go to Kansas City. You got a couple other teams that are probably going to have plus 500 records.

Two out of the first three are on the road to open, two out of the last three on the schedule are on the road. Four of the last five opponents the Panthers are going to play are likely playoff teams. The Vikings, the Broncos, the Packers, the Saints, and the one team that isn't, you have to go to DC to play Washington and Ron Rivera.

I got a news flash for you. The Panthers are not winning that game. I feel pretty confident saying that Rivera isn't going to lose to Carolina at home at the end of the regular season. Just not going to happen. Both teams probably won't be interested in winning at that point, but you know who's going to be interested in winning? Ron Rivera.

So Carolina, I have them as a five win team this season. We'll get back to college basketball with Brendan Marks when he joins us in 10 minutes. But it's also a birthday today.

Do you know this? It's Dick Vitale's 81st birthday today. Happy birthday to Dick Vitale. I was expecting happy children or somebody to be happy about the fact that Dick Vitale made it to 81 years old. It seems everybody has a Dickie V. Robert, do you have a Dickie V?

Happy birthday, dookies! That's all I've got. Pretty good. I'll take Dick Vitale impressions if people have them. I don't know how you're going to send an impression via Twitter, but you can try that.

I'd like to see what that looks like. You can get creative via text, but I don't think Dick Vitale gets nearly enough credit for how influential of a figure he is in college basketball. Outside of coaches, and yeah, I know you could probably hammer at me and say, once upon a time, Dick Vitale was a coach. Nobody knows Dick Vitale as a coach.

When you think about John Madden, you're not thinking about the Raiders coach, but if we are playing that game, Madden was a lot more successful as a coach than Dickie V was. Dick Vitale is a broadcaster. So if we're putting coaches and players in a different category, is there anybody in college basketball history who's more influential than Dick Vitale? Maybe Dan Gavit, maybe the folks who created the Big East and then led to the expansion of the NCAA tournament in 85, some of these commissioners, maybe like a Jim Delaney, something like that.

But Dick Vitale's on the short list. He's one of the five to ten most influential figures in college basketball history. For one, he gave college basketball a face on television, kind of like how Howard Cosell gave Monday Night Football a lot of traction. College basketball at that time, 40 years ago, needed a burst of energy. They needed somebody who could be part of the show because the sport itself wasn't drawing a national audience. The tournament didn't expand until 85. There wasn't, there weren't any brackets to be filling out.

Nobody really cared on a national basis. Now, I still think college basketball is more of a regional sport, but now it owns a month on the calendar. Dickie V, he was a part of this growth. J. Billis replacing Vitale as the primary color commentator for ESPN, I think itself was a sign of the sport's growth.

Growth that was in part due to Dick. Enough people cared at that point, ten years ago or so, about college basketball across the country that they preferred a tactical approach to analysis more than somebody who was essentially college hoops hype man. That's what, that's what Vitale really was. What's the most popular critique you hear of Dickie V, aside from the people who say, who say he's a Duke Homer? Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say is that he's a Duke Homer. Usually I hear, oh, I can't listen to Vitale. I got to turn him off.

He's way too loud. But that wasn't really a criticism 25, 30 years ago. Like that was necessary in order to get people interested in the sport.

I don't think enough people realize that. It's kind of like when NBC decided to move off of John Madden in favor of Chris Collinsworth. John Madden maybe was a little bit more willful to move on, but it seemed like NBC knew who they wanted to be their guy. And it was Collinsworth, more analytical as he runs pro football focus. He's also just a more tactical analyst than Madden was.

Madden was more of the entertainer. So Vitale, I'm excited. I don't know about you, but when I see Vitale's on a game, I still get excited. I do. When Vitale's on the call, it feels big.

I appreciate it. Whenever I go to a game, I know Vitale's there because there's kind of a buzz among the crowd. People pointing saying, oh, that's Dickie V. Oh, Dick Vitale's over there. And he also has a bunch of his pamphlets on every single press seat trying to raise funds for the Jimmy V Foundation.

He's still just incredibly active. We plan to have Dickie V on the show later on in the week. So a happy 81st birthday to one Dick Vitale. This much is true. There is nobody who isn't like a hardcore negative opinionist who draws as much ire as Dickie V does. Stephen A. Smith, he's hated by a lot of people because of his opinions, how bombastic he could be.

Same thing for Skip Bayless. And there are many others that you look at, wow, this guy, screw this guy, I can't listen to him, I disagree with his opinions. Or he's too negative. He says mean things. Dick Vitale, he is always positive. He's not saying negative things about anybody.

So I can't think of anybody who's as positive as Dickie V is all the time who draws the amount of hate, the amount of polarity that Dickie V brings. Anyway, when will Roy Williams and Coach K decide to step away? One of the most popular questions I get at dinner parties or when I'm asked to do radio spots as a guest. But we're going to discuss that topic and plenty more with college hoops rider, specifically UNC and Duke Beat rider, Brendan Marsch. Next. I'm sorry I'm a little winded.

A lot of talk. You're on the drive with Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. At first I just started looking at the greatest Tar Heel front courts under Roy this morning. But then I just got to thinking and said, screw it, let's just do his best teams. So I've got a list here of his top five North Carolina teams and let's just get right into it. Robert, I'm wondering, do we have like that really deep voice that does the five things at five that we can go through all of these things with? I know I'm doing producing on the fly, but let's just see if we can do this real quick.

That guy with the great sounding voice. Number five. Yeah. Gosh. Don't you just wish you could have pipes like that one day?

That's why I smoke cigarettes. Try to get my voice down. How's that going? I mean, it's getting there. OK.

Number five on my list. I'm going with the 2017 National Championship winning team. And you might think, Josh, Roy only has three of those.

Why are they so low? Well, I believe the 16 team had more talent. Just because you win the championship doesn't necessarily mean you're a better team. Like I thought Texas Tech's team in 2017 or make it 2018 was a lot more talented than the team that ended up in the championship game.

March is random. Don't forget that winning six consecutive games, single elimination style isn't always the best way to figure out who the best teams are. So number five, it's the North Carolina 2017 National Championship team. Let's get to number four.

Number four. 2016. I think 2016 is better than 2017. You got a Final Four team that goes to the championship. This team is Marcus Page on it. Bryce Johnson's the leading scorer. Joelle James is there for comedic effect at many points.

A lot of great memes from Joelle James. Villanova was just a more formidable opponent than that Oregon team they faced in 17 or the Gonzaga team. And they played an excellent game. So I'm not going to knock 16. Even though 17 won the title, I think 16 was a stronger Tar Heel team.

Number three. 2012. This is another team that didn't win the title. But let me just give you the starting five for this team in case you forgot. Kendall Marshall playing point guard. Reggie Bullock at shooting guard. Harrison Barnes, small forward. Tyler Zeller, all ACC, ACC Player of the Year, playing it power forward. John Henson's at the five. And coming off the bench, James Michael McAdoo, twice first team all ACC, back to back years he did that. PJ Hairston and Dexter Strickland out of the backcourt.

That is about as good as you're going to find. Didn't win a title though. And there's a really good reason why they didn't win a title. This isn't an instance of a team just not being able to put together. Kendall Marshall broke his wrist.

He hurt his wrist in the tournament. And that's one of the biggest what ifs in Tar Heel history. If he didn't get injured, what might have happened in 2012? Now, you probably would have run into that championship Kentucky team. And Kentucky, if I had to wager, I bet who would win between the Tar Heels and Kentucky that year, I'd probably go Kentucky. But that's an all-time great Kentucky team.

And I think it would have been an excellent game if they went head to head. 2005. Four lottery picks. You got a great balance of guards and forwards. And Sean May was the leading scorer. Marvin Williams was coming off the bench. It's just an amazing team. Raeshawn Terry checking in there.

Jawad Williams. Of course Raymond Felton. It was an older group, so that's another reason why I give it the edge over 2017 and 2016. So 2005, very much one of the top teams and they won the title to boot.

Number one. It's gotta be 2009. Very rarely, Robert, do I think Twitter gets it right.

But man, have they been getting it right right now. If you have thoughts on the subject, on Twitter, at sportsubtriad, 336-777-1600 is the phone number. I think the most talented North Carolina team Roy Williams has coached is the 2009 National Championship team.

Bulletproof. Perfect Roy Williams team. Perfect fit of what a coach wants to do philosophically and the personnel that's available.

Hansboro, great to work through the post, obviously. Ty Lawson, the best North Carolina point guard since Phil Ford in the 70s. You got Danny Green at shooting guard. Deion Thompson, Ed Davis. Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller were both five star players coming in. Or Zeller was a four star. Davis was a five star coming into Chapel Hill. They were both freshmen that season. Marcus Ginyard, just a ton of dudes on that 2009 North Carolina team that bludgeoned Draymond Green in Michigan State in the National Championship game.

So there you have it. 2017 comes in at number five. 2016 at number four. 2012 at number three. At number two, it's the 2005 Heels. And number one, the most talented North Carolina coach, Roy Williams coach, North Carolina team, I beg your pardon, is the 2009 National Champion.

So what were the most egregious additions on Twitter? Like teams that shouldn't even be in the conversation that you saw? Well, if you're looking at honorable mentions, there are some people that suggested that 2008 should be included because you have a lot of the same dudes from 2009. But that's an example of a team that didn't put it all together and lost to Kansas in the Elite Eight. Brendan Wright, he was around in 2007 too. So maybe you have that guy there.

Maybe the most egregious one. And I don't think it's insulting to suggest this team, but maybe the one that might have been a big reach is 2019. Recency bias is a real thing. When Kobe White appeared on the I'm a Tar Heel video at the Smith Center this past year, he got more cheers than Michael Jordan did. Because people in the stands, students, they probably knew Kobe White and they experienced watching him lead North Carolina to a co-ACC regular season championship with Virginia. And that's a really good team.

I just want to put them in this conversation. They were a number one seed in the NCAA tournament, but they didn't advance as far as they probably should. They got blitzed by Auburn in the Sweet 16.

But that lineup, just think about it. Kobe White, lottery pick. Cam Johnson, lottery pick. Luke May, all ACC guy back to back years. Kenny Williams, one of the better defenders. Garrison Brooks, playing out of position at center, we saw what he was capable of doing this past year. Nasir Little, he's a draft pick. So there's a lot of really good players on that team. I don't want to slight it completely, but just not anywhere remotely near.

I didn't consider him that long in the top five Tar Heel teams coached by Roy Williams. Okay, we need to knock out another category or another division for our over-unders. We're doing the AFC today. The NFC is tomorrow. So let's transition things to the AFC East. AFC East, and we got to start with the New England Patriots, right?

The big question, how far will they fall with Tom Brady in Tampa? The over-under is nine. That's a good number.

Nine. I'm going under that. Under knife, they just lost too much. Ninkovich at the middle of that defense. You lose a little bit on the O-line.

You lose Tom Brady, of course. You don't have a lot of weapons to support Jarrett Stidham. Robert, you're looking at me confused.

What did I say that was wrong? It's not Ninkovich. I don't know who you're talking about, but he's been retired for a minute.

I'm thinking about who's the one that went to Miami? Uh, Van Nooy. Van Nooy.

They're all the same. Van Nooy, Vrabel, Ninkovich. I'm thinking white middle linebackers for the Patriots. I'm sorry. It's kind of like mixing up Edelman and Amendola.

Things that happen. I'm going under nine for New England. I don't feel great about it, but that would be my pick if I had to go one way or the other. Buffalo Bills, over under nine.

Going over that. They won ten games last year. Who's convinced that they are worse? Now, the schedule is going to be a lot more difficult. I think they were nine and two against teams that didn't make the postseason last year. Not a great record against teams who did. They lost both games to New England, but they won ten. So, even if they win one less, eh, you're still pushing that.

The division hasn't gotten a lot better. If the Jets are healthy, they're a team that might be competitive. The Dolphins, we saw what they were capable of doing at the end of the year. The Patriots, you're not worrying about Tom Brady anymore. So, this feels like Vegas trying to bait you. I probably wouldn't bet it, but I'm going over nine for the Bills. I will tell you something I am betting.

If I, you know, if gambling were legal and all, right Robert? I'm going over six and a half for the Jets. This one's crazy to me. The Jets last year won seven after starting 0-4 and surviving their quarterback, missing the start of the season with mono. Eh, the schedule, it's not easy, but it's not as difficult as it was a year ago. Over six and a half wins?

This seems like a layup. The Jets are going to go over six and a half. I think most people are just worried about the playmakers on offense aside from Le'Veon Bell. Like, they lost Anderson, uh, Quincy and Ninwas out for the whole season.

So now you're throwing to Denzel Mims, Jamison Crowder, and Rashad Perryman, and their secondary is also, aside from Jamal Adams, uh, how could I say this, uh, Doodoo, but I could see that. Lastly, the Miami Dolphins. The number is six. Five and eleven team a year ago. I think they're going over six. The culture's good. It seems like they're setting things up the right way.

I like the pieces they're adding. Taking some of the Patriots and, you know, stocking up with the McCordy and stocking up at corner and at linebacker with Van Noy. Brian Flores, I'm a big fan of what he's doing. I think Tua is going to play at some point. Not right out of the gate. I think it's going to be Fitzpatrick. But a quarter into the season, I could see them transitioning to that. And I think Tua is going to show us enough where the Miami Dolphins win more than six games.

So there you have it. Bills over nine, Patriots under nine, Jets over six and a half, and the Miami Dolphins, I'm going over six wins. I'm just glad football season's right there on the horizon. And experts seem pretty confident that we're going to have football and the NFL, by God, they're going to find a way to get on the field.

Obviously, there are a lot of details that need to be hammered out before now and then, but those are the over-unders for the AFC East. However, and wherever you're listening to the show, we appreciate that. We hope you subscribe to the Best of podcast, which is available wherever you find your podcast.

Just search The Drive with Josh Graham. A lot of great guests we have slated to join us the rest of the week. Recently inducted Wake Forest Sports Hall of Famer Riley Skinner will join us. Dick Vitale we expect to have on later on in the week.

B Dot's going to be in studio with us tomorrow. So there's a lot of good stuff. We did great work with Will Healy yesterday, who I thought was very illuminating.

Again, find that, The Drive with Josh Graham. Just subscribe wherever you get your podcast. We appreciate that.

You are listening to WSJS Winston-Salem, WCOG Greensboro, WPC in Burlington, WMFR High Point. Those signals together comprised make up Sports Hub Triad. Yesterday, we talked about how David Tepper has been a leader on subjects of race among NFL owners. In fact, I posted last night before bed that 2018 TV clip of Tepper defending the kneeling players and calling them patriotic. Then woke up this morning to retweets from Panthers coach Matt Ruhl and NFL reporter extraordinaire from the NFL network Ian Rappaport. And pretty much all the feedback I've gotten across the league has been positive towards the Panthers owner.

And that's players included. Trey Boston said that he feels more inspired and acknowledged by getting involved in the community than he did with previous ownership. And Andre Smith said he got a phone call from Tepper saying when things die down, make sure you keep this thing going if you feel strongly in it.

I'll use that as a segue to one of our favorites, the voice of the Panthers, Mick Mixon, who now joins us on the show. And Mick, based on what you've seen the last two years being in that building at Bank of America Stadium, what is it about Tepper you think players respect most about him? His way is so different, Josh. He's obviously been very successful in finance. His ability to do things with spreadsheets and columns of numbers that no one else really, very few people in American history have been able to do is known by the players. They know what he's done with hedge fund management, with his risk tolerance. And I think they relate to the fact that he's not scared, that he's willing to take a chance, that he is excited about being aggressive. And then you couple that with the way he dresses, where it's nothing for him to walk through the halls, Josh, with this purposeful stride. He's got this kind of duck footed, he leans forward when he walks, his feet kind of jab the ground as if he's almost going to tip over going forward. And that's kind of emblematic of his leadership style, too. He's always going forward, he's always moving, and he'll have a t-shirt on, he'll have a pair of shorts on, a panther hat. He just looks like, he does not look like Thurston Howell III, he does not look like Jerry Jones, he does not look like Daniel Snyder, he doesn't look like any other NFL owner. He doesn't act like any other owner, he doesn't talk like him, and he just will immediately get the saber out and start giving you a hard time.

First thing he ever said to me was to Coach Ron Rivera, not even directly to me, but he looked at me when I introduced myself to him, training camp 2019, looks at Coach Rivera at Wofford and says, hadn't you been feeding this guy? And I said, seriously? I said, I've met you for 20 seconds and you've already run the knife on me? And he said, did it take that long?

Was it really 20 seconds? I'm disappointed in myself. You know, so this is, he is charismatic.

And then you have Matt Rule, who's charismatic also, but in a totally different type of way. And I don't know, Josh, something just feels different about this, about where we are right now to me. I know sports is the toy store, it's the candy store, but in a lot of ways, it's how we come together. And I think we're ready to come together. We need to come together. And how do you feel about it?

Do you think that, does something feel kind of different to you about where we are right now? Yeah. I also think it's not a coincidence that Tepper is the newest owner in the NFL, where he might represent maybe a change in direction, where things that he said a few years ago might've seemed very controversial. It might've seemed polarizing. And now, as I mentioned, putting that out there, Ian Rappaport, Matt Rule sharing it as well, it's being applauded things that he said a few years ago.

And also, I don't think word salad statements are any longer being accepted. It's action that's being warranted by these owners as well. And Tepper, it should be noted, after the comments on CNBC about the players he viewed to be patriotic for what they were doing, he signed Eric Reid two or three weeks later. And then a few weeks after that, he was meeting with Torrey Smith at the Mecklenburg County Courthouse to talk about jail reform. So he's backing up what he's saying. And you're somebody who's obviously been around the Panthers the last few years when Tepper's been there, but you also were around Dean Smith as well in Chapel Hill for his last few years in Chapel Hill.

And he strikes me as somebody who never was afraid to impact his community socially or politically. And there's a lot of that in sports right now. And to use your words, it does seem like people are ready for change, a way to act differently. The norm seems different than what it used to be.

So what do you think the responsibility of sports, public figures, and the political and social space to be? I think mainly is to just shut up and just listen. I mean, it is especially for certain segments. And I'm not talking about minorities.

I'm talking about management. I love what Matt Rule said. I guess what I'm trying to say is, in a different way is what I heard Coach Rule say, is that only the minority knows how it feels. And so Matt Rule has made a — I bet he said, did you watch his press conference the other week?

I bet he said ten times, I don't have the answers. I mean, he was so beautifully humble and not preachy. And I think it just needs to be uncomfortable dialogue. I think we just need to not be afraid to sort of tread into that space of asking and listening and thinking before we speak or tweet or whatever it is. What do you think?

I think you definitely have to be very responsible. And Matt Rule, I give him a lot of credit. Even when it was speaking about Cam Newton a few months ago, he chooses his words very carefully and is very polished. And I don't think he's a guy who's going to say something just to say it. It's going to be backed up in action, kind of like we were discussing with Will Healy yesterday, who in the same city marched with some of his players.

His players and the Charlotte Athletics Department organized a protest in the city. We'll see what happens in the next coming weeks, in the next coming months. It doesn't feel like this is something that's going to go away. I don't think that's a bad thing. Mick Mixon's joining us, the voice of the Carolina Panthers.

I want to get your thoughts on a couple other things. Luke Kuechly, what do you think his future is destined to be? Because he's looking at right now a career in scouting. But man, he said he was considering television and talking to Mike Torrico of NBC.

And I mean, he was referred to as being a coach on the field. So what do you make about what his future might be in the game of football? He's got so many options. He could turn left and kill it. He could turn right and crush it.

He could go straight and do the same thing. When he first announced he was going to retire, I thought if the CEOs of Cabela's and Dick's Sporting Goods and Orvis and Bass Outfitters, if they don't try to get him aboard, because he's a noted outdoorsman, he loves to wear the hook, loves to be in the woods. At first I thought maybe that outside of football he would make an endorsement mark.

But I don't know if that's really what he wants to do. The scouting train can take you places. The scouting train could take you to front office, GM. It could take you to salary cap, guru ship. It could take you into those offices where people make a lot of money. Coaching is nomadic. It's a time grind.

It's responsibility in some cases with no control. Keithley's appetite for film study is well known, and that could bode well for him if he decided to go into coaching. But I think the way it looks now is going into scouting, we could be talking about him and he's very young.

Hadn't he turned 30 yet, I don't think. But someday we could be talking about him in the same way that people talk about Brandon Bean, former Panther laundry folder, former Panther equipment toter, former Panther filler up of Gatorade bottles, now the general manager of the Buffalo Bills. Yeah, and I'm also thinking about it could be like a former player who I think is one of the smartest defensive players we've seen the last two decades, John Lynch, who took a different path.

Of course, he went into television at Fox before he ended up being a general manager. But when I think smart defensive players, I've had a chance to watch the last few decades. John Lynch is at the top of the list. Luke Kiekwe's there. Lance Briggs comes to mind. Brian Urlacher.

So we'll see. We'll see what is in store for Luke when that time comes. But I just want to get to a couple stories with you as well, because I don't think we've talked about this. I know what your first impression was of Matt Ruhl when you met him. I know what your first impression was of David Tepper as well, as you just shared it with us. But we spent some time talking about Roy Williams earlier. He was he was talking on a podcast about the team he has this year and coaching at 70 years old.

Kiezo turned 70 in August. Do you remember what your first impression was of Roy Williams? Because I'm not sure if there was overlap before he left the Kansas, but certainly you were there for the start of his head coaching career in Chapel Hill. Oh, golly, Coach Williams and Dean Smith and Bill Guthridge, the thing that the thread that connected them was this competitiveness that bordered on being combative. We've seen it come to light through the last dance with Michael Jordan and with Coach Williams and Coach Smith, Coach Guthridge and others of that ilk through the program. It wasn't a win.

It wasn't win at all cost, but it was win at most cost. In other words, they, whether it was golf shooting free throws, I heard up with my own ears. I heard Dean Smith get the needle out on the golf course and bench jockey and cajole and harass and bully and just bait weaker minded golfers into missing the clutch putt. Coach Williams on the golf course, hard to get, hard to beat, hard to get that beat him out of that $2 Nassar, that $5 Nassar.

That's amazing. It was very hard on him when he took the job. I think that he felt a loyalty and loyalty is right there behind the competitiveness, Josh, maybe sister with it in terms of the fabric of these men. They're loyal for just for decades.

Their memory of a slight, their memory of an injustice is a couple thousand years. And I think it was very difficult for Coach Williams because even while he was coaching UNC in those early days, he still felt a loyalty to the university that gave him the shot and put their faith and trust in him as a head coach. And that was Kansas, of course. I think I don't think that I've ever seen a press conference or heard one quite like 2003 when he was introduced in Chapel Hill, because he spent a good deal of the press conference. I don't think it would be hyperbolic to say it was half the press conference specifically talking about Kansas. Usually it's a throwaway line thanks to the folks at Phil and the University X. I just left to take this job as a stepping stone to get to where I needed to go. But to your point, he made sure he was heartbroken in a sense that he left Kansas, because that's how much it mattered to him, right?

I know. It was so interesting, those two rivers, these two mighty rivers just both flowing in opposite directions, just looked like a word battle and an emotional battle that Coach Williams was having to wrestle with. The place that he was in, the place from which he had come, and I think in some cases Coach Williams knows what he should say or he knows what's expected of him to say, but he doesn't really care. He's genuine. He's going to say what's on his mind and in his heart.

I'm going to take a stab here before I let you go. Today is Dick Vitale's 81st birthday. 81 years old Dick Vitale, who we expect to visit with later on in the week. He's still writing books that are all going to charitable efforts like the Jimmy V Foundation. And when I think of Dick Vitale, I mean in the broadcast space, people need to know he's the same exact person off the air that he is on it, loud, bombastic at points. I don't think he gets enough credit for the influence he had on college basketball, being kind of a hype man for the sport for many years before it really took over in national prominence, especially in the month of March. But what do you remember about your encounters with Dickie V now that he's the big 81 today?

Amazing guy. And one time I wrote this article, which was a positive piece for a magazine, a short-lived sports magazine called The National. And I was a media columnist for a short period of time for The National.

I loved it. And I wrote a piece about Jay Billis. And in the piece talking about what an exquisitely talented, intelligent guy Jay Billis is and how he's destined for stardom, which proved to be true, of course, easy prediction to make.

You could see it from a million miles away. I mentioned that Billis doesn't really care whether he gets photographed mugging with the crowd or whether he gets passed up by the Cameron Crazies up the bleachers and then handed back down again. And I get home from work a night or two later, and my home phone is ringing, and I pick it up, and it's Dick Vitale calling me from Florida. He's read the column, and he's agreeing with me that Jay Billis is going to be great, but he's taking issue with me for taking issue with him. And I'm just saying, Dick, you know, you've taken it all wrong.

I wasn't trying to say anything negative about you. In the meantime, I'm thinking, how did Dick Vitale get my home phone number? How did I even register on this man's radar screen? His legacy is secure. He doesn't need. I mean, but he just takes everything I think is personal to him.

He wanted to be loved and liked, and of course, he is that, right? Amazing voice of college basketball for decades. But I'll never forget picking up that phone and hearing that unmistakable voice wanted to talk to me about that article. When you're working in the opinion space, see, you're a play-by-play man. It's not necessarily the opinion space, but like a Skip Bayless or a Stephen A. Smith, you're bound to have people disagree with you, and you're bound to be polarizing. It does well to be polarizing.

There aren't many people who are as positive. This is the part I find interesting about Dick Vitale. I don't think there's anybody in the history of sports media who's as positive as Dick Vitale is. Doesn't seem to have a negative thing to say about anybody in the sport, yet is still incredibly polarizing. If I go to the phones, people are going to say they dislike him or they love him.

I don't know why that is. Well, I think just because of early on, he broke every mold of what TV color analysts should sound like and should talk like and look like for him. Those early days, he created a whole new language that people still talk in, in many ways, with diaper dandies and PTPers and all that, and just the enthusiasm that he had for it. And other people, Lee Corso on the TV side, other people try to imitate it, but really nobody ever really got to where Dick Vitale was and is.

And I disagree with the premise of your point slightly, Josh, in that he was very positive. But unless you ran afoul of good judgment, I heard him eviscerate people throughout college basketball history. If a coach got fired before they really had a chance in his mind, if a coach that he respected was found guilty of recruiting improprieties, I heard him spared really no venom on those people. Oh, yeah, and I just now was reminded, I actually saw him and Cameron last year, the night that there was a brawl between Kansas and Kansas State, and he's calling for that kid never to wear a Kansas jersey ever again, Sylvia DeSosa. I just saw him fuming up there in the press box in the crow's nest, and I thought, oh, this is probably something.

Exactly. Mick, it's just good to hear your voice, man. I hope you're staying safe in the Queen City, and I hope Dawn's well as well, and it's just good to hear from you. She's sitting here reading magazines.

She's waving at you, saying to tell you what's up. Sounds good. You guys take care, okay?

You too, pal. That's Mick Mixon. He's the play-by-play voice of the Carolina Panthers, and just one of my favorites to catch up with. If you missed our conversation, our whole conversation with him or Brendan Marks from The Athletic, just listen to the best podcast wherever you get your podcasts, Search the Drive with Josh Grant. Real quickly, Robert, let's do best bets, three best AFC over-under bets. We've got the NFC tomorrow. Let's dive right in. Your attention, please. Please do not turn off your radio.

All right, got to blow through these really quickly. I love the Denver Broncos this year. I think they're going to go over seven and a half. I think at worst, they're an eight-and-eight team.

Good organizations aren't held down very long. This is my sleeper team in all of the NFL. Denver, a playoff team. I think we're going to see a lot from Drew Locke in his second season. Mike Houston, what do you got to say? Jets over six and a half.

Me and Robert disagree on this front. They won more games than they lost when Sam Darnold was playing quarterback. Tom Brady's no longer in the division. Over six and a half. They won seven games last year, and I mean, the quarterback had, not Mercer, had mono the first four games.

So over six and a half. I think that's a lock. And lastly, the Indianapolis Colts over eight and a half. I get the best organization in the division. Houston's a bit erratic this year. Philip Rivers is an upgrade from Jacoby Bressett.

I like the weapons there. Best team in the division. Indianapolis is going to win that division, and in order to do that, you better win more than eight games.

I think they do that. Put some money on it. There you go. Jets over six and a half. Broncos over seven and a half. Indy over eight and a half. Those are my best bets.

AFC over and under. Robert, what do you got to take it to the house today? The Dalai Lama's got bars? Does he? Wait, take it to the house next.