The Drive with Josh Graham - Wake Forest AD John Currie

Wake Forest Director of Athletics John Curry now joining us.

Earlier this week, the Deacs announced the I'm a Fan initiative, talking about demon deacon football and specifically trying to raise enthusiasm, create enthusiasm awareness for the opening night football game, August the 30th, eight o'clock kickoff time. It's a Friday night against Utah State. In addition to that, there are a lot of college headlines to get to as well, including the report earlier this week from CBS Sports First, but then Yahoo! Sports talking about the NCAA potentially laying down the hammer in terms of level one punishments.

For a couple of college basketball programs. But before we get to that, I want to talk a good deal about football. John Curry's been all over the place, and now he's on with us here in the Triad.

John, good to have you back on the show. What made you decide to launch this initiative and go out on the all out offensive, it seems like, to push the season opener? Well, we've got a three time back to back to back bowl champion football team with a couple quarterbacks, a great coach, an elite coach, the best football program in the state of North Carolina and a beautiful BB&T field and a great city of Winston-Salem. So why not go ahead and put the pedal down and have a great home opening crowd on the ACC Network on Friday, August 30th at eight o'clock. So while you're gathering information returning to Wake Forest and you're trying to figure out what areas need more support, more areas need help, did you see football as an opportunity, a place for more growth in terms of support?

Because you look last year, Notre Dame and Clemson were close to selling out but weren't quite at the 31-5 capacity that BB&T field has. Do you feel this team could get more support considering the way that it's played of late? Well, everywhere I've been since I was appointed as the next athletic director on March 4th and then started officially on May the 1st, people told me how excited they are about Wake Forest football this year. The appreciation they have for Coach Clawson and Catherine, they're such incredible representatives of Wake Forest. And then our team, you know, I've had a chance to be around our players quite a bit over the last couple months. And it's just an exciting bunch. And so when you see the opportunity we have to engage deeper with the community and the surrounding area, it just seems like a natural fit.

You can learn more about the I'm a Fan initiative at GoDeacs.com, the director of athletics at Wake Forest, John Curry with us here on the Sports Hub. Since you have three Friday night games to open up the season, it has opened up a lot of conversation around here about whether college games should be played on Friday night. Obviously, television has changed a lot over the last few decades. What is your thought on it?

How do you feel about Friday night games? I think we've lost John Curry. That's usually a sound of death when you hear that small little click.

And usually it happens right as you're asking a question, too. But you can follow the AD at Wake Forest as we're trying to reconnect with him at John underscore Curry. He's back with us. What is your thought? I'm talking about Friday night football games.

How do you feel about them? Well, Saturday is our preferred day for college football. There's no question about it. And we recognize the impact that having an event like a college football game on Friday might have and the choices that people have to make. And so it's not going to be the norm. This is a bit of an abnormal year for a number of different reasons where we have the three Friday nights, including two at home. But there are some folks that can't come on Saturdays, too. One of the advantages of playing Friday night and playing at night is we know now that fans won't be in the stadium at noon on that Saturday when it might be a little hotter and a little bit more uncomfortable. So we'll make the best of it.

We'll do our best to communicate changes to fans. This ticker case for the Utah State game, we've got a great opportunity. People can buy right now, buy four tickets and a parking pass for fifty nine dollars. That price does go up on July one. So we've got a lot of action and people taking advantage of that already this week. So you have a little over two more weeks to capitalize on that at Godex.com.

And I want to help in every way I can, John. So one way I was thinking we can I can I can add incentive to it if there's anything we could come up with on this show at sports. I've tried on Twitter whether I mean, earlier today I got shamed because I thought the Warriors were going to win the finals and I lost that bet. So the Panthers do flex Fridays.

They take off their shirts and they start posing. So I did that earlier today. Desmond gave me some baby oil. It wasn't a great look, but it's led to a lot of social media traffic, I guess. So I guess it's a win in some way there. But with Wake football, if we sell out this game here, the first game, I'd be willing to do something to add incentive. So on Twitter at Sports Hub Triad, you let me know what we need to do. And John, if you come up with anything, I'm certainly all ears.

I'm, of course, going to be there that first game, but I'm looking to help any way I can. Hey, I'm all with you, Josh. You know, this is a community effort and I appreciate that. I'm with you.

I'm not going to shave my head. All right. But you know, you come up with it, too. You know, when you put a pot in each other's face so we can see who can eat the most Pulliams hot dogs in one sitting or something like that. How many hot dogs do you think you could house in a single sitting? Ten minute stretch.

How many do you think John Curry can can can pound? What do you think? Oh, I don't know. How long? Ten minutes? Yeah. Ten minutes. Maybe two a minute. Twenty. Wow.

That's impressive. So Dez, intern Aaron, see if you can figure out something that we can do in just a bit. I do want to get your thought on the college basketball news of the week as CBS Sports started reporting that the NCAA is going to hand down some punishment and the NCAA started commenting on this, which is something they don't really do that often. I've talked to college coaches in the ACC and outside of the ACC who really want to see a significant punishment laid down here only because, of course, there's the accountability reasons, but they feel like that's the only way it could deter anybody from breaking rules and recruiting that many coaches feel like have been violated for the last few decades.

How do you feel about it? If we have rules, we need to follow them. And if we have rules that we feel like need to be changed, we need to change them, but we still have to follow the rules that exist. I'm all for full accountability. I know what the values of our coaching staff are. I know what the values of our institution are.

And I agree. If we have coaches or athletic directors or whomever that aren't committed to following those rules and operating on the same playing field, then there should be consequences. John Curry, Wake Forest Director of Athletics with us on Twitter, at John underscore Curry. Again, it is the I'm a fan initiative that you can find at GoDeacs.com and there are only a couple more weeks left that you can capitalize on with special deals for that opening game against Utah State on August the 30th. Well, we're looking forward to the start of football coming up. We'll come up with some ideas to potentially pump this thing up and see how we can help John, but appreciate you squeezing in some time for us this afternoon. Josh, appreciate you and looking forward to seeing a packed VB&Q field on August 30th. You got it. That's John Curry, Director of Athletics at Wake.

So the hot dog idea is an interesting one from John. To see who can win it. What I'm thinking about here is it's tough. Wake didn't sell out one game last year. They got close with Clemson and Notre Dame, but this year they have North Carolina, NC State and Duke coming in, which should enhance season ticket sales.

And then with it being a Friday night and John Curry being as aggressive as he is and having deals like this that you can capitalize on. I'm just trying to get to the finish line and I'm willing to help out. For Deke fans here, if it sells out, I'd be willing, maybe not to take my shirt off again and do something, but some level of shame I'd be willing to participate in if it means that this game's selling out. You are glutton for punishment. You love this, don't you?

Punishment? No, but I would love to go to one of these Wake Forest football games and to see the stands filled. You know what they need to hear? There's no one to one yet where the game sold out. The easiest way to sell out? $5 tickets. Just sell them all for $5. If you really want to sell it out and you want to get, what, 36,000 people in there on a Friday night in the beginning of September when it's still going to be 85 degrees outside? That's your way to do it. $5 tickets.

How much are tickets usually? Dez's business expertise is $5. Here's what we got, guys. Hey, we're just going to sell them all $5. Work for the Atlanta Falcons.

And I didn't sound like Colonel Sanders when I said it either the first time. It worked for the Atlanta Falcons. They lowered the prices and they sold out. The tickets have never, the prices have never been the concern for Wake football games.

They just haven't been. It's the demand and the awareness and the enthusiasm surrounding it. So what I'm trying to do here is not negotiate what the prices are.

I'm trying to figure out a way. We can help drive interest. I'm trying to help them out. If they want to get people that are not normal Wake Forest fans to come in there and check them out. But who's complained to you about the ticket prices? What is the normal ticket price for a Wake Forest football game?

That's the problem. Why are you talking about the prices when you don't even know what they are? Because I know they're not $5, Josh. Make them $5.

I know, but that's not realistic. $5 bucks. What are you doing, my $5 stadium fill-up box? What are you doing here?

I'm serious. Why are you funding this? I don't understand why you're funding the $5 ticket.

I don't know what you're doing. Of course, yeah. Make the tickets $5. Yes, done. That's the simplest thing.

You can solve that with any problem. Okay, let's go down to South Florida. The Florida Panthers are struggling with attendance.

Let's bring in business expert, Desmond Johnson. What do you got? Lower your ticket prices. They're too high. $5 tickets. The rent's too high.

He sounds like the guy from There's Something About Mary saying, I got this revolutionary business opportunity. It is called 7-Minute Abs. I don't know why.

You may have heard of 8-Minute Abs. Let me go find out how much these tickets are. 7. I don't understand why this is such a big deal here. Because we're not talking about the ticket prices. You're talking about selling out the stadium. We're trying, but we're not in charge of the tickets, Des. He is?

No, he's not. I'm going to go and be like, you know what, for today, because I really want to sell this place out, $5 tickets. They already are lowering the tickets. They're doing these specials and such. Do it for $5.

I mean, I'm trying to do things that we can control. We don't control the ticket prices, but we can control other ways to drive interest for some reason. Dude, the tickets are like $40. That's not expensive. It's for those that would buy a $5 ticket it is. If you want to get Winston, you want the Trefoe to come out here and support Wake Forest, $5 tickets. Des, I'm asking you, you can't make Wake Forest football games the same price as high school games. Well.

You can't. Then there's going to be a problem. There's going to be a dilemma. Des, I'm not asking you to fix all of Wake's problems.

I'm asking you to tell me ways, things that we can do to enhance interest. I'm not asking you to be the marketing director at Wake Forest. There's a reason why you're not, and it's probably because you think of $5 ticket ideas to be in the Great Lakes. I bet I'll get a job offer Monday, especially if somebody in office is like, you know what we should do? $5 tickets. Then the news story is going to come out. Wake Forest has a shortfall of $20,000 because of the $5 a ticket campaign from Desmond Johnson. Nah, don't make that up at concessions.

They come out to work. Beer and popcorn. You just charge $8 for a beer and you come out even, man.

They come out until I got $5 on it. Yeah, see? You clearly have. Not you. Erin gets it. I am just so amazed, amazed at how smart you think you are coming to the microphone thinking that it's a great solution with you, you with no expertise whatsoever really in ticket sales or marketing. Really? Is that what you think? Yes. Okay. Have you worked in ticket sales?

Not in ticket sales, but in marketing the past 15 years, yeah. There's lots of stuff I did, Josh, before you met me. There's a lot of stuff I did before you met me.

Don't presume that you know anything about what I've done before I got here. You don't know me? You don't know me, man. You don't know me, son?

You don't know me, man. Tickets are $15 for this game. It could be $5. It could be $5. Come on. If this is the conversation I want to have, I would just talk.

I'd rather talk to the wall. Like, hey, the ticket prices are down to $15. Well, it could be $5.

Heat to a good salesman is sticking to your price. I'm going to need about $3.50. You ain't going to find a single person complaining about $5 all the way to $4.50. Somebody when it's down to $5 is going to say, I'm going to tell you what I'm going to need to be about $3.50. If you find somebody that's like, no, I'd rather pay $15 for these and just, you know. I just don't understand what you're doing.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I want some ideas out here, man. I know, but the ideas we were looking for were things that we can do.

We're not doing, we can't change the ticket prices of weight. Okay, so you give us an idea then, so we have an idea of where you want to go. I asked you for ideas! I know, and I gave you one and you poo-pooed it, so I want you to give us an idea.

I can't, no, no, no, no. You came to me with an idea, $5 tickets, which is something out of my control completely. I have no control over the ticket prices. Not $5, $5. $5, $5 tickets.

Holy bleep. Go to commercial. Wake Forest Director of Athletics, John Curry, now joining us earlier this week. The Deacs announced the I'm a Fan initiative, talking about Demon Deacon football and specifically trying to raise enthusiasm, create enthusiasm, awareness for the opening night football game August the 30th, 8 o'clock kickoff time. It's a Friday night against Utah State.

In addition to that, there are a lot of college headlines to get to as well, including the report earlier this week from CBS Sports First, but then Yahoo Sports talking about the NCAA potentially laying down the hammer in terms of level one punishments for a couple of college basketball programs. But before we get to that, I want to talk a good deal about football. John Curry's been all over the place, and now he's on with us here in the Triad.

John, good to have you back on the show. What made you decide to launch this initiative and go out on the all-out offensive, it seems like, to push the season opener? Well, we've got a three-time back-to-back-to-back bowl champion football team with a couple quarterbacks, a great coach, an elite coach, the best football program in the state of North Carolina, and a beautiful BB&T field and a great city of Winston-Salem.

So why not go ahead and put the pedal down? And have a great home opening crowd on the ACC Network on Friday, August 30th at 8 o'clock. So while you're gathering information returning to Wake Forest and you're trying to figure out what areas need more support, more areas need help, did you see football as an opportunity, a place for more growth in terms of support?

Because you look last year, Notre Dame and Clemson were close to selling out but weren't quite at the 31-5 capacity that BB&T field has. Do you feel this team could get more support considering the way that it's played of late? Well, everywhere I've been since I was appointed as the next athletic director on March 4th and then started officially on May the 1st, people told me how excited they are about Wake Forest football this year. The appreciation they have for Coach Clawson and Katherine, they're such incredible representatives of Wake Forest. And then our team, I've had the chance to be around our players quite a bit over the last couple months. And it's just an exciting bunch. So when you see the opportunity we have to engage deeper with the community and the surrounding area, it just seems like a natural fit.

You can learn more about the I'm a Fan initiative at GoDeacs.com, the director of athletics at Wake Forest. John Curry with us here on the Sports Hub. Since you have three Friday night games to open up the season, it has opened up a lot of conversation around here about whether college games should be played on Friday night. Obviously, television has changed a lot over the last few decades. What is your thought on it?

How do you feel about Friday night games? I think we've lost John Curry. That's usually a sound of death when you hear that small little click.

And usually it happens right as you're asking a question too. But you can follow the AD at Wake Forest as we're trying to reconnect with him, at John underscore Curry. He's back with us. What is your thought? I'm talking about Friday night football games.

How do you feel about them? Well, Saturday is our preferred day for college football. There's no question about it. And we recognize the impact that having an event like a college football game on Friday might have and the choices that people have to make. And so it's not going to be the norm. This is a bit of an abnormal year for a number of different reasons where we have the three Friday nights, including two at home. But there are some folks that can't come on Saturdays too. One of the advantages of playing Friday night and playing at night is we know now that fans won't be in the stadium at noon on that Saturday when it might be a little hotter and a little bit more uncomfortable. So we'll make the best of it.

We'll do our best to communicate changes to fans. And this ticker case for the Utah State game, we've got a great opportunity. People can buy right now, buy four tickets and a parking pass for $59.

That price does go up on July 1. So we've got a lot of action and people taking advantage of that already this week. So you have a little over two more weeks to capitalize on that at GoDeacs.com.

And I want to help in every way I can, John. So one way I was thinking, I can add incentive to it. If there's anything we can come up with on this show at Sports Hub, try it on Twitter. Earlier today, I got shamed because I thought the Warriors were going to win the finals. And I lost that bet. So the Panthers do Flex Fridays.

They take off their shirts and they start posing. So I did that earlier today. Desmond gave me some baby oil. It wasn't a great look, but it's led to a lot of social media traffic, I guess. So I guess it's a win in some way there. But with Wake Football, if we sell out this game here, the first game, I'd be willing to do something to add incentive. So on Twitter, at Sports Hub Triad, you let me know what we need to do. And John, if you come up with anything, I'm certainly all ears. I'm, of course, going to be there that first game. But I'm looking to help any way I can. Hey, I'm all with you, Josh. This is a community effort and I appreciate that. I'm with you. I'm not going to shave my head.

But you come up with it, too. We can put a pot in each other's face so we can see who can eat the most Pulliams hot dogs in one sitting or something like that. Wow. How many hot dogs do you think you could house in a single sitting? Ten minute stretch.

How many do you think John Curry can pound? What do you think? I don't know. How long? Ten minutes? Yeah, ten minutes. Maybe, I don't know, two a minute? Twenty? Wow.

That's impressive. So Dez, Intern Aaron, see if you can figure out something that we can do in just a bit. I do want to get your thought on the college basketball news of the week as CBS Sports started reporting that the NCAA is going to hand down some punishment. And the NCAA started commenting on this, which is something they don't really do that often. I talk to college coaches in the ACC and outside of the ACC who really want to see a significant punishment laid down here only because, of course, there's the accountability reasons, but they feel like that's the only way it could deter anybody from breaking rules and recruiting that many coaches feel like have been violated for the last few decades.

How do you feel about it? If we have rules, we need to follow them. And if we have rules that we feel like need to be changed, we need to change them, but we still have to follow the rules that exist. And I'm all for full accountability. I know what the values of our coaching staffs are. I know what the values of our institution are.

And I agree. If we have coaches, if we have coaches or athletic directors or whomever that aren't committed to following those rules and operating on the same playing field, then there should be consequences. John Curry, Wake Forest Director of Athletics, with us on Twitter at John underscore Curry. Again, it is the I'm a fan initiative that you can find at go deeks dot com. And there are only a couple more weeks left that you can capitalize on with special deals for that opening game against Utah State on August the 30th. Well, we're looking forward to the start of football coming up. We'll come up with some ideas to potentially pump this thing up and see how we can help, John. But I appreciate you squeezing in some time for us this afternoon. Josh, appreciate you and looking forward to seeing a packed B&Q field on August 30th. You got it. That's John Curry, director of athletics at Wake. So the hot dog idea is an interesting one from John. To see who can win it.

What I'm thinking about here is. It's tough. Wake didn't sell out one game last year. They got close with Clemson and Notre Dame, but this year they have North Carolina, NC State and Duke coming in, which should enhance season ticket sales.

And then with it being a Friday night and John Curry being as aggressive as he is and having deals like this that you can capitalize on. I'm just trying to get to the finish line and I'm willing to help out for deep fans here. If if it sells out, I'd be willing maybe not to take my shirt off again and do something. But some level of shame, I'd be willing to participate in if it means that this game selling out. You are glutton for punishment.

Like you love this, don't you? Punishment? No, but I would love to go to one of these Wake Forest football games to see that the stands filled. You know what they need to do? I haven't been to one yet where the game sold out. The easiest way to sell out? Five dollar tickets. Just sell them all for five dollars. If you really if you really want to sell it out and you want to get, what, thirty six thousand people in there on a Friday night in the beginning of September, when it's still gonna be eighty five degrees outside. That's your that's your way to do it. Five dollar tickets.

How much are tickets usually? Des's business expertise is five dollars. Here's what we got, guys. Hey, we're just going to sell them all five dollars. Worked for the Atlanta Falcons and I didn't sound like Colonel Sanders when I said it either the first time.

It worked for the Atlanta Falcons. They lowered the prices and they sold out. The tickets have never, the prices have never been the concern for Wake football games. They just haven't been. It's the demand and the awareness and the enthusiasm surrounding it.

So what I'm trying to do here is not negotiate what the prices are. I'm trying to figure out a way we can help drive interest. I'm trying to help them out. If they if they want to get people that are not normal Wake Forest fans to come in there and check them out. Who's complained to you about the ticket prices?

What is the normal ticket price for a Wake Forest football game? That's the problem. Why are you talking about the prices when you don't even know what they are? Because I know they're not five dollars, Josh. Make them five dollars.

That's not realistic. Five bucks. What are you doing?

My five dollar stadium fill up box. What are you doing here? I'm serious. Why are you finding this? I don't understand why you're finding the five dollar ticket.

I don't know what you're doing like this. Of course. Yeah. Make the tickets five dollars. Yes. Done. That's the simplest thing.

You can solve that with any problem. OK, let's go down to South Florida. The Florida Panthers are struggling with attendance.

Let's bring in business expert Desmond Johnson. What do you got? Lower your ticket prices. Hear me out here. They're too high. Five dollar tickets. The rent's too high.

He sounds like the guy from There's Something About Mary saying I got this revolutionary business opportunity. It is called seven minute ads. I don't know why.

You may have heard of eight minute ads. Let me go find out how much these tickets are. Because I don't understand why.

Seven. I don't understand why this is such a big deal here. Because we're not talking about the ticket prices. You're talking about selling out the stadium. We're trying, but we're not in charge of the tickets, Des. He is.

No, he's not. He can't go and be like, you know what, for today, because I really want to sell this place out. They already. Five dollar tickets. They already are lowering. All of them are five dollars. They already are lowering the tickets.

They're doing these specials and such. Do it for five dollars. I'm trying to do things that we can control. We don't control the ticket prices.

But we can control other ways to drive interest for some reason. Dude, the tickets are like forty dollars. That's not expensive. It's for those that would buy a five dollar ticket it is. I'm telling you. If you want to get Winston, you want the trefo to come out here and support Wake Forest, five dollar tickets. Des, I'm asking you. You can't make Wake Forest football games the same price as high school games. Well.

You can't. Then there's going to be a problem. There's going to be a dilemma.

Des. I'm not asking you to fix all of Wake's problems. I'm asking you to tell me ways, things that we can do to enhance interest. I'm not asking you to be the marketing director at Wake Forest. There's a reason why you're not. And it's probably because you think of five dollar ticket ideas to be in the great play. I bet I'll get a job offer Monday.

Especially if somebody in office is like, you know what we should do? Five dollar tickets. Then the news story is going to come out.

Wake Forest has a shortfall of twenty thousand dollars because of the five dollar a ticket campaign from Desmond Johnson. Nah. Don't make that up at concessions. They come out to the world. Beer and popcorn. You just charge eight dollars for a beer and you come out even, man.

They come out until I got five on it. Yeah. See? Not yearly. Aaron gets it.

Aaron gets it. I am just so amazed, amazed at how smart you think you are coming to the microphone thinking that it's a great solution. You, with no expertise whatsoever, really, in ticket sales or marketing. Really? Is that what you think? Yes. Okay. Have you worked in ticket sales?

Not in ticket sales, but in marketing the past fifteen years, yeah. There's lots of stuff I did, Josh, before you met me. There's a lot of stuff I did before you met me.

Don't presume that you know anything about what I've done before I got here. You don't know me? You don't know me, man. You don't know me, son?

You don't know me, man. What are fifteen dollars for this game? It could be five. It could be five. Come on.

If this is the conversation I want to have, I would just talk, I'd rather talk to the wall. Like, hey, the ticket prices are down to fifteen. Well, it could be five. He to a good salesman is sticking to your price. I'm going to need about, I'm going to need about true fitting. You ain't going to find a single person complaining about five dollars.

Somebody when it's down to five is going to say, I'm going to tell you what, I'm going to need to be about true fitting. If you find somebody that's like, no, I'd rather play fifteen for these and just, you know. Don't understand what you're doing.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I want some ideas out here, man. I know, but the ideas we were looking for were things that we can do.

We're not doing, we can't change the ticket prices of weight. Okay, so you give us an idea then, so we have an idea of where you want to go. I asked you for ideas. I know, and I gave you one and you poo-pooed it, so I want you to give us an idea.

I can't know, no, no, no. You came to me with an idea, five dollar tickets, which is something out of my control completely. I have no control over the ticket prices. Not five dollar. Five dollar.

Five dollar. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets. Five dollar tickets.

Five dollar tickets. TheAthletic.com has you taken care of with some of the work our next guest has done in recent weeks. C.L. Brown from The Athletic joined us every single week during college basketball season. And since he was just writing about Christian Keeling, the Charleston Southern transfer, who will be on the Tar Heels this year this week, and last week writing about Joey Baker and how his role is going to look different at Duke coming up this fall and winter, we figured we'd chat with him, especially with the draft next week, too, and the CBS Sports and Yahoo Sports reporting on the NCAA being in the news as well. It's never a bad time around here, C.L., to be talking college hoops, is it? No doubt, man.

24-7, 365. Always about the hoops. So when you see, in the past, I know the NCAA has been known to overreach and botch investigations, but since it seems like the FBI did most of the legwork here in gaining information from its federal investigation, do you believe the NCAA has the ammunition to deliver stiff penalties if they so choose here? Oh, for sure. I mean, the FBI did all the legwork because, you know, obviously the NCAA doesn't have subpoena power, and they can't compel somebody to tell the truth the way the FBI can. So even though I think it still was a waste of taxpayers' money, even though I think some of the stuff, you know, the judges claiming that the schools were victims I think was nonsense, but at the end of the day, the case is pretty much laid out there for several schools. But there's still a question of how, you know, there's still some great areas, I feel like, and I still feel like some schools that maybe should get a hammer might still be able to avoid it. But here's what's interesting to me. Since the FBI did all of the legwork here and all the investigating, and they have subpoena power, and the NCAA doesn't have to worry about, like, botching investigations as the Miami one they did many years ago.

That's the one that sticks out with Shapiro and all of that nonsense. It seems like they have an opportunity here, and from coaches that I've talked to, ACC coaches outside of the ACC, they want to see punishment delivered. They want to see coaches held accountable, and they want the integrity of the sport to be a little bit more restored considering what the national narrative has been after the FBI news was first broken in October of 2017.

But really, even people who followed college basketball closely before that knew that these types of things were going down. How much do you think the NCAA feels this is an opportunity here, now that they're speaking on the record about the fact that there are schools that are going to be handed major infractions? Well, I'm sure they're hoping that once these come out that that will help clean up the sport and the changes that they made.

I'm actually up in Charlottesville, Virginia right now at the top 100 camp for the NBA Players Association. They bring in all the, you know, kids. And this was a change this year because college coaches got to, for a 24-hour period, come to evaluate these kids.

And that was one of the changes made because they're basically trying to take the control away from the sneaker companies and clean it up. But as this will, you know, there's still a lot to be said what's going to happen with the recruiting calendar, but I'm not sure that, I'm not sure that much is going to change, to be honest. I mean, even after these come of these come down, I still think it's going to be a lot of wait and see, especially if some schools like, for instance, Kansas, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that Kansas has been dirty. Now, will that mean that they're going to get, you know, some kind of, they're going to get the notice of allegations this week? We don't know.

You know what I'm saying? So I still feel like there's still some wait and see. Will they be able to avoid it? Because, as I said, it's circumstantial, and I'm not even sure because I think part of that, the wiretap that Curtis Townsend is, since the Kansas assistant was caught on tape speaking on, that didn't make it to trial, from what I understand. So the NCAA can't use it. Like, they're not using stuff that wasn't officially entered, you know, that wasn't officially into evidence, that wasn't officially on a transcript in a court. So it still remains to be seen. I think there's still some gray areas, and some people might avoid punishment that maybe should be punished, but that's not going to clean up the sport the way that they, that's not going to send the signal that the NCAA wants to send.

It might not, but I think perception is a very important thing. I think about the NFL's Deflategate case with Tom Brady. I'm not sure if Tom Brady being punished four games affects much about how players are going to prefer their footballs to be inflated, but it was an opportunity for the NFL to dismiss some of the notions that other owners were having that they were showing favoritism towards the New England Patriots, and the NFL wanted to establish power. I feel like the NCAA might feel some of that here, saying we constantly take Ls, and we take blows in the media and PR hits.

This is an opportunity for us to feel strong. Well, the NCAA also isn't going to cut off its nose to spite its fate. I mean, you're talking about one of the Blue Blood programs that's always on TV that basically carries the Big 12. You know what I mean?

I'm still from Missouri. You've got to show me. I'm still not at this point thinking that the NCAA is going to drop a hammer like that on one of their major programs. So I'm reserving judgment until everything actually comes out. So let's look at some of the stuff that you put out here the last few weeks. You were talking about Joey Baker at Duke at TheAthletic.com. We are chatting with C.L. Brown on Twitter at C.L. Brown Hoops, and yesterday you were writing about Christian Keeling, the Charleston Southern transfer to North Carolina. When you look at these rosters, the way that they're comprised, and they seem to be very deep rosters, there might be longer rotations in place with Duke and North Carolina this year potentially. Which roster at face value on paper do you like more, North Carolina or Duke?

Well, that's a tough question. Because both of them, by and large, are going to be guys who haven't played together, the guys who are going to have some major roles. So it's going to be who kind of comes together the best in the shortest amount of the time. Obviously Duke has high talent with Vernon Carey Jr. coming in to anchor the inside. Trey Jones returning is huge for Duke.

Carolina getting Cole Anthony at point guard. I'm basically not going to choose one of the others, Josh. That's fair. I hate to play the middle like that.

But let me ask you this then. Let me ask you a question about Duke's rotation then. Because every year it's always seemed to be 7-8 man. But when I look at it this year, you have guys back like a Jack White. You have Marquis Bolden go towards the NBA.

Javon DeLaurier returns. You wrote about Joey Baker and what his role might be. Jordan Goldwire got minutes down the stretch and important ones at that, especially in that North Carolina game in the semifinal of the ACC tournament. Can you envision Duke running a 9-10 man rotation this fall considering that's something that Mike Krzyzewski hasn't really broken away from the 7-8 man rotations we've seen in the last few decades?

Yeah, I only think that's going to happen if literally kids have to play their way into it. Coach K doesn't do that for the sake of doing it. He doesn't play an extended bench for the sake of even getting his guys, either getting guys' reps or getting younger guys experience to play, especially once ACC play rolls around.

He keeps it tight. So if guys are contributing and earning their keep, so to speak, off the bench, then I think we'll see a deeper bench than Duke has had in the past few years. But if Jack White, if he had a slump the way he did in January to February last year, he's not going to see time because that's the Coach K way.

You've got to be productive, and I would imagine he's going to keep it tight unless guys just prove otherwise that everybody is contributing and he can have a deeper rotation. What interests you about the way Roy Williams put together this lineup? Since you were writing about Christian Keeling and Roy Williams landing him in Pierce and Cam Johnson in recent years, the grad transfer route, the way that this team looks, landing someone like Cole Anthony is great, but adding that with the grad transfers, the way that Texas Tech has won, for example, seems to be a trend we're seeing in college basketball. Yeah, I mean it's interesting because it's not something that typically Roy Williams has done in the past, and they desperately needed to get some bodies in there. So it helped that they got some experience in there. You know, it's one of those things I think that's kind of a good problem to have because of the senior class that graduated and having two guys that are, by all accounts, probably going to be lottery picks and Kobe Wright.

I think that's going to open it up for Carolina to get back into getting some of the elite. C.L. Brown. I thought we lost you for a second. C.L. Can you hear me?

We got you loud and clear. What are some things that we could expect ahead of the draft next week, your coverage of the ACC and, of course, next Thursday's draft? Yeah, we're going to take a look at some of the guys who are top 20, but, you know, outside of the obvious Zion, R.J. Barrett, and Don Moret, we're going to take a look on how some of the other pieces might fit in. I have pieces, stories on, that's their little Kobe White and Cam Reddish running next week in the Athletics. Follow C.L. on Twitter at C.L.

Brown Hoops, theathletic.com. It's good to hear from you, C.L. We'll catch up sometime soon. All right, thanks, Jeff. You got it.

That's C.L. Brown. A lot of things happening on a Friday. The studio smells like baby oil because Dez went outside and grabbed some for me to rub on my body for our Flex Friday Carolina Panthers photo shoot.

I lost that bet. Those photos are on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. I did a couple of poses. Which of them do you like the best? I'm dabbing the one where I'm going like full arm flex downward with the aggressive teeth. I have like the aggressive face or the pose that I see a lot of rappers do where you're kind of just keeping your hands near your lap and standing upward while mean mugging. Which of those do you like the best out of the three that we've put up on our social media here? Are you asking us?

Yeah. I don't like any of them. I'm not going to lie. I don't like any of them.

None of them tickle my fancy. I'm not really getting a lot of interesting things saying that I look like the Burminator. Shield my eyes. I'm filing a lawsuit.

I can't unsee this. You were cold as ice. There's a lot of things being said that really isn't friendly. I just lost a bet. I came through and don't blame me. Blame the Golden State Warriors. That's where we've arrived here.

So there's that that's going on. Now we're also taking submissions for things we can do to add for incentive. Get Wake fans to go to the August the 30th season opener against Utah State. If they're able to sell it out again, they haven't sold out a game in a while. They didn't sell one out last year, even though Notre Dame and Clemson were in town.

They were very close. The max capacity is thirty one thousand five hundred. If they sell out the Friday night opener against Utah State, I'd be willing to do something here. All we have is John Curry suggesting me and him eat hot dogs for some reason. Steve on Twitter suggests that we do what? The dunking booth?

Yes. We have the dunking booth. And we could do that outside the stadium.

I'm willing to do that, too. Are those the best ideas that we have? I'm willing to do some sort of shaming here if you come up with something that would be legitimate incentive for people to buy these tickets. Because I go to these Wake games and I wish they would sell out because the team's so darn good.

People should be there. Yes, Steph. So me and Aaron were talking, right? And we need to talk to you. OK. Well, we do a talk radio show here. That's kind of what we do every day where we talk back and forth.

What are you talking about? Hello, Joshua. My name is Professor Gabriel. And I'm here with- Wait, is Gabriel your last name? It is.

Oh. And I'm here with your friend Desmond. Sorry, Aaron. I didn't know what your last name was. Voice some concerns recently about your bedding habits, Joshua.

So why don't you come in and have a seat? I wish I was prepared for this before we went ahead and done something here. I didn't know that this was happening. Well, Joshua, that's kind of the point of an intervention. Wait, this is an intervention?

That's what we're doing? This is what this is, Josh. This is an intervention. This is an intervention, buddy. We love you, man.

Why is this an intervention at all? Desmond has some things to say to you. And we need you to listen to us.

I want to bet. And then Desmond weaseled out of it at the last second because he was griping and complaining. See, Joshua, this is what we're talking about. You see how your voice is elevated now.

And you're getting upset. Desmond has written down some things. What did you type in, Des, to find this music?

What is it that you typed in to get here? Sad Josh music. Thank you. Desmond, would you like to share what you have written down for Josh? This is so ridiculous. So the first time I met Josh Graham, first week into the beginning of Something Beautiful, The Drive with Josh Graham, 3 to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday on WSJS Sports Time. They know that.

They're listening to the show right now. We made a bet. Initially it was, I thought, crazy. Who would get more carries?

Christian McCaffrey or CJ Anderson for the Carolina Panthers? The first time we met, we were at J. Butler's. We were at a restaurant. Joshua, you're not listening.

I'm listening. Once it was quite clear that CJ Anderson wasn't going to get on the field, that bet was scrapped. And then we instead went to, can Christian McCaffrey get a certain amount of yards from scrimmage? I forgot about that initial bet. How ridiculous was that?

I was so wrong. 1,500 yards was how much Josh said he could not get. Christian McCaffrey ended up flirting with 2,000.

Good for you. After that, I'm sure I'm missing some other bets somewhere in here. We made a long-term bet of who would win the ACC regular season in basketball. Which I won.

According to the ACC and their official website, no one won. You weaseled out of that damn bet. You did. That was you.

Profanity is not necessary, Josh. We had to foster a respectful environment. Do you remember how that bet was settled? Yeah, I do remember. I remember that we were trying to get you to do what you said you were going to do. Then you flatly went rogue and said, I'm not going to do this bet anymore. That's not what happened. Trying to save the show, I said, alright, we'll put it on this Game 6 Rockets-Warriors game.

Well, that's a cute way to put it. But what happened was you placed another bet. A bet that felt like it was not going to be able to be won by you.

That's our concern. The Warriors were seven and a half point favorites in that game. Kevin Durant was no longer playing for the Golden State Warriors when you made the bet. And Golden State was already winning three games to two. Well, I didn't bet on Golden State.

I bet on Houston. I know. You let me bet on Golden State. That was the issue. Joshua, did you did you pose shirtless today? I did. I did that. Why?

Why did you post those pictures on the Internet, didn't you, Joshua? I mean, I'm not proud. I'm not. That's OK. The first step is admitting that you have a problem.

It's not that the betting is the problem. It's the type of action you're taking. This studio smells just awful. Does it smell like baby oil, Josh?

It does. Baby oil and desperation. Because we're desperate to get you some help, Joshua. You picked you picked Golden State to win the NBA Finals down to one. They still were the favorites in Vegas to win. Durant had not played in four weeks. He looked great for a quarter, Des. Klay Thompson had just missed the game the day prior. But he looked great. Klay was great the rest of the series.

Kevin Durant was awesome for a quarter. What do you want from me? Nick Adal is 35 years old. We've set up some time for you, Joshua, to get your thoughts together. And we want you to attend Betters Rehab.

What is Betters Rehab? We have no idea yet, but we're working on it. Is this where the bit falls apart? This is probably where it all goes to crap.

Where it completely disintegrates when I ask what this thing you just created is? We should probably bail right now. All right, let's just bail completely and immediately, suddenly. Let's just bail on it all right now. So that was fun.