The Drive with Josh Graham - Wake Forest AD John Currie on NCAA Ruling

This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast.

Tune in to The Drive weekday afternoons 3 to 7 on Sports Hub Triad. Don't be misled by assumptive headlines you see on the NCAA Board of Governor's decision on name, image, and likeness. The NCAA did not do anything today. Yeah, I'm seeing fans and media even saying it's happened. Athletes can be paid now. They could be in commercials very, very soon and make money while playing collegiate athletics.

They did it. Take the ESPN headline I see on their front page right now. NCAA votes to allow athletes to profit from likeness. And when you read some of these statements, it seems like you can draw that from this. The unanimous vote from the Board of Governors saying that they're going to adjust their NIL model, quote, in a manner consistent with the collegiate model, end quote.

So there's always that but hanging in there. Yeah, we're gonna allow for that to happen. We think that's something that should happen. But all three divisions of college football need to decide what their model is going to be by 2021. So most of the athletes who want to benefit from this today won't be able to. And 2021 is kind of where they're kicking the can down the road.

All we have today is the NCAA knows they have to change something. That's all they've said here. And essentially they're saying we'll figure it out by 2021. Then you have the full statement and there's several things you could pull already from people reacting to this.

That's nothing more than word sally. Desmond, I'm gonna read you a quote from Michael V Drake. He's the president at Ohio State, a part of this committee, the Board of Governors. Here's the statement he gave on this big news story today. You let me know what you get out of this because I read this about three times and there was zero substance I could find. Here's the quote.

You try to take something away from this. Quote, we must embrace change to provide the best possible experience for college athletes. Additional flexibility in this area can and must continue to support college sports as a part of higher education.

This modernization for the future is a natural extension of the numerous steps NCAA members have taken in recent years to improve support for student athletes including full cost of attendance and guaranteed scholarships. End quote. What the hell was that? Our hand is being forced. We're having to do this.

We don't want to, but we've got to do this and we're trying to get ahead of it. Did he say anything in that statement? Not really, not hardly anything at all. Ultimate word salad. Oh.

Your thoughts are welcome on the subject. It seems like a lot of you want to talk about this. Name of image and likeness, pay for play. It fires people up every single time on Twitter at Sports Hub Triad 336-777.

1-600 is the phone number. All they're doing is following suit with legislation. You have the California law that was signed by Gavin Newsom that's gonna go into effect in 2023. The pressure was put on the NCAA. Their force, their hand as you said was forced by guys within the sport who are already within athletics who are pretty powerful. Coach K coming out here saying that he agrees with the California law. So this is a move that the NCAA had to make but they really didn't do anything today. So I'm interested in why people are jumping to the conclusion that it's it's all done. It's happened. What we've talked about for decades, it's finally here.

Now I'm not gonna say this isn't a step of progress but just slow your roll a little bit. We're talking about the NCAA here and if the NCAA has taught me anything is that it will find a way to mess this up. They are so susceptible to trying to react to public pressure that they're bound to cave and do so in a way that's not productive and doesn't arrive at what most people agree would be a positive result.

I almost went down the road of word salad there a little bit. Think about the NCAA cases, the noteworthy ones. Complete overreaches and investigations say for Penn State and Jerry Sandusky.

They botched that. Going after Shapiro at Miami. Completely botched that investigation.

Couldn't get Miami for really anything. Couldn't pin North Carolina down for all those years. Maybe the best recent example was the Rice Commission. We could all agree there are issues in college basketball right after the FBI is literally investigating coaches in the sport. They put together the Rice Commission and very quickly here they come. You have Condoleezza Rice, many others demonizing the one and done saying that's what's hurting college basketball. Then having agents get involved in a way that's just confusing when you read the details of it all and it doesn't really seem like they fix much of the problem at all.

But if it's getting rid of the one and done then that's gonna satisfy some considering the way that we've scapegoated the one and done rule in my opinion and maybe that will steer sight away from some of the problems that are a little bit more difficult to fix here. The NCAA, they're going to fight this. Like anybody who thinks the NCAA is just going to pack their stuff take their ball and go home doesn't know the NCAA that well. They've bought themselves time to figure out a strategy to fight this. That's what today's headline is. They've bought time till 2021 to figure out how they can maintain this college model that's benefited them far more than it's benefited the star athlete for sure. They're going to figure out a way to compromise this.

To compromise where things are headed and how they can keep things the same as much as possible. Figure out what exactly that is. So don't quite jump as far as many are today saying that it's happened it's done. Name image and likeness it's going to happen for college athletes.

I'm not at that point yet. We'll get Wake Forest Director of Athletics John Curry's thoughts on the subject in a little less than 25 minutes. He will join us ahead of a massive game for Wake Forest. Coming off the open date the Deacs will be hosting NC State noon kickoff time.

Tickets are still available for this game. I expect it to be a very good crowd. I just don't know really who to expect playing quarterback because I went to Coach Clawson's press conference earlier today.

It was the number one question on everybody's mind. Is Newman going to return? Jamie Newman. After missing the Florida State game we get a depth chart. Sam Hartman's name is printed right next to Newman's.

So that's when my concerns started. Then when I heard what Coach Clawson had to say when I asked him what's going to be the decisive factor in Hartman or Newman getting the start against the Wolfpack I became even more concerned for QB 12. I mean you know if Jamie can go he'll go if not Sam will go. If Jamie can go he'll go. If Jamie can't go Sam will go. That answer tells us so much. It tells us that this shoulder injury that Jamie Newman has is more serious than we originally expected.

It's his non-throwing left shoulder. Remember game day we were unsure if he was going to play against the Seminoles. Some expected Newman to go.

Then the game ends. Clawson kind of gave a similar answer when I asked him when did you decide Sam Hartman was going to be starting this game. But I figured with the bye week and having this game off it was a situation they thought they could win with Hartman.

Keep him engaged. This is a quarterback you're gonna want to have redshirted this year and you could play him in four games this season why not get him acclimated and then next the next two years he's gonna remain in Wake Forest and be a big part of your future. I understand all that but it was all under the understanding that if Newman is healthy 100% he's going to be the starter. This seems like he's far from that or at least a couple weeks ago was far from that.

Now I'm not going as far to say that I'm concerned that he's going to return. Clawson in the past hasn't taken chances with that. He announced after the Syracuse game that Hartman is done for the year last season and I believe Newman is going to return it could be against NC State but the fact that this is a question today and that he answers it in that regard if Jamie is healthy he will go if he can go he will go has me concerned about how injured that shoulder really is. Hartman's a good alternative but not nearly as good as Jamie is. Jamie's more sure-handed less careless with the football trust the pocket a little bit more he was the best quarterback in the ACC for about a month. Also Jamie's had a great run against North Carolina schools. Don't look now but his first career start was against NC State in Raleigh last year spoiling Ryan Finley senior night. Then in the regular season finale Wake Forest needed a win to be bowl eligible they creamed Daniel Jones and Duke 59 to 7. Beat North Carolina earlier this year beat Elon. Jamie Newman is a North Carolina killer here. Every team he's faced from the state of North Carolina he's beaten. Will he get another shot against NC State?

We'll continue to follow that as the week goes on. I got a 30 for 30 like tease here are you ready for this? Hit me. What have I told you?

Game seven wasn't the best two words in sports. Yeah? That's next on the drive. Stand by as we continue our dig for the truth and the toy at the bottom of the cereal box.

Oh got it. You're on the drive with Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. I think we're going to have a great crowd. Every indication that this would be the best crowd of the year.

And that's what makes this a great game. Fans are used to this game. It's 110 years and certainly you know the NC State has a great fan base. You know they travel well and whenever you go to Carter-Finley Stadium that's always a packed house and they're loud and it'll be a great environment for college football. That's Dave Claussen ahead of this weekend's game against NC State a noon kickoff time. Tickets are still available for this game.

You can order at godeeks.com or at the ticket office 336-758-3322. We're now being joined by the Director of Athletics at Wake Forest University, John Curry. And before we get to the football John, I have to get your thoughts on the breaking news that has just come down in the last hour and a half. The NCAA, the Board of Governors voting to put some sort of legislation together by 2021 at all three levels of three divisions of college athletics in terms of finding something that works, approving a model for athletes to benefit off their name, image, and likeness in line with the law that was signed by California Governor Gavin Newsom. What is your view on this? Well I'm not at all surprised that the Board of Governors took that step today.

There is an excellent working group that was created last spring trying to look at the roadmap or the framework, so to speak, for such a move. One of the important things that was mentioned today in the Board of Governors' statement is that they're expecting all three divisions of the NCAA to come up with their own interpretations and guidelines, so to speak. The reality is that, you know, there are a thousand NCAA institutions, there's 351 Division 1 institutions, there's 65 Power 5 institutions, there are Autonomy 5 is a correct term, which of course Wake Forest is one of only 65 schools in the country, and it's a Power 5, Autonomous 5 institution. In all of the circumstances that those institutions are dramatically different, and the value provided in the form of a college education and a college scholarship is dramatically different.

You know, certainly at Wake Forest where tuition and scholarship is about $75,000 a year, you know, we're talking about $300,000 base value tax-free right off the bat, and that's enormously different than what another school's education might be worth, and that's an advantage for Wake Forest student-athletes. So trying to figure out how to adapt to the need to continue to recognize the modernization and continued expansion of the scholarship is a challenge across a thousand universities, and the Board of Governors' mandate that it needs to happen as it relates to NIL is important. There are some that think this is a massive headline today, there are others that say let's wait and see what they come up with for the three divisions of the NCAA by 2021. How big of a deal do you believe today to be? Well, today was important because it does recognize that the higher leadership of the enterprise understands that it's not something we can keep kicking down the road. Regardless of whether or not popular sentiment is realistic or correct, it is a fairly evident or persuaded view by the public, at least the public that pays attention to sports media, that this is something that's overdue.

You know, you can dig in pretty deep into technical details, none of which fit into 260 or 280 character tweets, because it is a complex issue. But it is time that we make this step forward, just as we did three or four years ago when President Hatch was the president of, excuse me, the chairman of the Board of Directors in the NCAA. That's when the autonomy division was created, which resulted in the cost of the tenant stipend being added to that scholarship. So we need to take another step, and this is an important moment in embracing the fact that this is something that needs to happen, a modernization of the rules, while we protect the collegiate model, which is a valuable model for student-athletes across the board, evolving to reflect the reality of the environment. It's Wake Forest Director of Athletics John Curry, ahead of NC State, Wake Forest, noon kickoff time on Saturday as the Deacs in this week's AP poll, 23rd in the country. We don't have to talk about Coach's poll and AP poll any longer after tomorrow, because in all likelihood the Deacs will be a part of the first college football playoff rankings when they are announced. Give me the latest on what's supposed to be a massive game here in the state of North Carolina on Saturday. Where are you at this second when it comes to ticket sales? Yeah, we're within two or three thousand tickets of being sold out for this game. It's also Parents Family Weekend here in Winston-Salem at Wake Forest, so we've got lots of parents and loved ones of our students here at Wake coming to the game.

We're gonna have a great crowd, but there's still time for fans that are listening to go ahead and go to GoDeacs.com and pick up a pair of tickets. Remind me, do noon kickoffs hurt or help you in your mind? There's no one-size-fits-all in terms of what's the perfect kickoff. I think in this case, having a daytime kick after we've had two 730 kicks is preferential. You know, certainly on August the 31st, a noon kickoff brings the heat and uncomfortable. On November 2nd, noon kickoff, pretty doggone good. Earlier in September, families probably have more activities on Saturday mornings.

As you get later into October and November, earlier in the day, it becomes helpful. We certainly recognize the impact that, you know, a 730 kickoff has the last two games. You know, that's somewhat of a challenge for some folks, but on the other hand, we also hear from people that can't get to a noon game because they got to work during the day or they got kids activities. So there's really no one-size-fits-all, but I think it's a nice change of pace after the couple night games we've had and we're gonna have a great crowd Saturday. And listen, there isn't a bad seat in the house in BB&T Field.

Like, I'm just being completely honest here. I'm not just saying it because John's with us right now. Tickets start at $55 for this game and it's NC State. It's Wake Forest. It's a ranked football team and the weather's supposed to be good.

It's the first couple days of November. I want to see this place packed out. What would it mean to you to hear this game sold out? Well, that's always our goal. And as we talk about having the best fan experience in the state of North Carolina's house, what you said earlier, he's absolutely right. I mean, we have all kinds of game day parking close to the stadium. You can get in and out easier.

We continue to have progress on the highways around the community. This is a great place to come watch football game and you can get back and go out to dinner at one of our fine area restaurants after the game. We also have, you know, we're down to that $55 tickets for this game for the Duke game in a few weeks. We actually have tickets that start at $20. We have a few more available for that game. So, we want everybody to be here this weekend and then back here when we recognize the senior class in a few more weeks.

Yeah, and find that GoDeacs.com is a very convenient way to go. John Curry with us here. Have you been satisfied with the support you've been getting with football? Because I know that's something you were very, you were, it was very important to you going into the year.

Absolutely. You know, we've had the best student attendance we've had probably in 10 years. You know, over 3,000, 60% of our student body and attendance for the first couple games. 2,000 for a couple games. Obviously, the game, the fall break game is a little less than that because many of our students were out of town. And then the community support has been really, really good as well. We got to continue to spread the message that it's easy to get to wait for our football games. Everybody's welcome.

You don't have to have gone to school here. This is, this is the Triads team. This is Winston Salem's team. And you know, we talked earlier about the autonomy 5 and the power 65. There's 64 cities in America that have a power 5 athletics program.

Winston Salem is one of them. There are a bunch of cities in America they would love to have power 5 athletics and the schools that come in to play at the highest level of college athletics in their community. And we need to continue to work hard to build strong relationships and a stronger hometown affinity. And I feel like we've made great progress this year. I also believe that if you look at our coaching staff across the board, you know, Danny Manning and Jen Hoover have been all around town, you know, greeting students, different groups, delivering tickets personally over the last couple weeks for basketball season, which starts next week. I really believe that our coaches across the board have done a great job of responding to that, to that need to continue to be out and invite folks to come to our ball games.

And the Deacon Ambassadors Program, the Football Ambassadors Program, has helped put lots of groups and guests in the stadium who have not otherwise had the opportunity to experience football at BB&T Field. And we're going to continue to work on, you know, service options like the On the Fan Zone. We've got another live band out there Saturday morning starting at 9 o'clock in the morning.

I believe the name of the band is Men in Black. And we got all kinds of games and people have enjoyed that as well. I would mention as well, Josh, as you know, we're going to have a special day with the Deacs, so to speak. And hats off to Coach Manning and the basketball program. They're going to have an open scrimmage starting at 915 in Joel Coliseum. So you can come on over, you can get parked wherever you want to park. It's absolutely free to go over to the Coliseum, watch some practice, a little bit of scrimmage situations. Not a full-blown scrimmage, so to speak, but scrimmage situations. See our team, see the seats that are available for sale for this coming season. And then we have four or five other teams that are going to be there signing autographs and just visiting with fans.

That's going to be a really nice event. We got baseball, women's basketball, field hockey, golf, soccer, tennis, cross-country, and track athletes that will be there mixing. So it's a great opportunity if you're in the community, you have kids that you want to expose them to elite college athletes, world-class student athletes right here at Wake Forest.

And then you can go right over and watch the football game, catch the last little bit of the band there at the I'm a Fan Zone. And NC, as you said earlier, top 25 football squad that's playing really well against NC State. They're starting a new quarterback this week, so we need lots of noise to get on them a little bit. And we got a national ESPN audience, so obviously we love the ACC Network, but when we talk about exposure, the big ESPN main line channel means that this thing is going to be seen in every television set in America. So we want Winston-Salem and Wake Forest to be well represented when those cameras come on.

Devin Leary going to be starting for NC State as Wake Forest tries to win their third consecutive game under Coach Claus and against the Wolf Pack. Since you mentioned the opportunity with to see the Danny Manning's team with that scrimmage-ish or scrimmage-like situation, the practice they had before the noon kickoff on Saturday, we are a week before the start of the college basketball season officially. Before we let you go, were you in favor of the 20-game ACC schedule we're going to see for the first time this year? It's certainly a win for the fans in terms of having a great home slate.

I'm in favor of that, in favor of that competition. Certainly it makes a challenging schedule even more challenging, but again, look at Winston-Salem North Carolina. We're going to have 10 Atlantic Coast Conference basketball games in Winston-Salem. We've got Virginia coming into Winston-Salem. We've got, of course, North Carolina Duke and NC State in the Big Four. You add Xavier to that. So 14 home games and 10 of those 14 home games are ACC schools.

The 11th game was Xavier. That's a pretty good schedule, and as you know, Josh, one of the great options to catch the Deacs is the Deacon Mobile Pass, which right now is $160. It goes up to $200 on Thursday, but it guarantees a fan a ticket for every men's and every women's basketball game this year in Joel Coliseum.

That's a heck of a deal. How does it affect scheduling basketball moving forward? I know you said that it makes things more difficult to schedule altogether, but with this 20-game schedule, are we just going to see fewer, I don't want to pick out any schools, but lesser D1s playing Power Five schools, or are we going to see less Gonzaga versus North Carolina home-in-homes?

That's the first one that comes to mind for me. Well, it actually makes it a little easier because you don't have to go out and get as many games. From a coach's perspective, the schedule is more difficult. The slate that you are playing is much more difficult. It's hard to win a championship in the league, and it got a little harder because you got two more games you got to get through. You know, your comment about what does it affect negatively, maybe it's one guaranteed game less.

It certainly does give pause to figure out how many times you can go on the road. I'm not personally, I think one of the unfortunate things about multi-events, like we play the tournament in California, which is a neat tournament, it's three games, but those are all games that aren't on campuses. I wish those tournaments were two games so we could have one of the other games on campus, but nevertheless it is what it is, and we're going to continue to have a great schedule for Deacon basketball at Jill Coliseum.

Well let's not get too far down the line. NC State this weekend, once again, a noon kickoff time. GoDeacs.com. You can learn more information and the doors open at the Jill Coliseum for that men's basketball practice at 9 15 in the morning and an opportunity to meet the other sports, too. Appreciate the information and the insight, John. It's certainly appreciated. Now Josh, we've got to talk about golf real quick before you let me go.

All right, what's that? Well, we're in the East Lake Cup, live on the Golf Channel, and the Deacs are currently in the lead on the men's side. We're up four matches to one, and then we're tied on the women's side, two matches.

We're headed two, we're tied in one, and we're down in two. So the East Lake Cup is the top four golf programs in America for the men and the top four golf programs in America for the women. Wake Forest is the only school with both its men's and women's programs in the event. So, you know, I would obviously keep the radio on and listen to you, Josh, but you can have the Golf Channel on in the background so you can keep up with the Deacon Deacon. Yeah, Desmond, let's flip the channel, make sure we get it on the Golf Channel, because that was exciting what we saw in the spring, and certainly golf at Wake Forest. That's big time stuff, whatever you're talking about, men's or women's. John, appreciate the time.

Thanks, Josh. That's John Curry. On Twitter, follow the director of athletics at Wake Forest at John underscore Curry.

Giving everybody some love in here, and we're all about that. Why did this NCAA decision come today? Why did the NCAA act now on NIL? That's next on The Drive. Sports Talk.

Saluting a fellow sportsman. If you're talking about it, I'm talking truth. We're talking about it.

Who are you talking to? Sports fans everywhere. This is Radio The Drive with Josh Graham. Here are the massive trades that have been made in the NFL today, now that the trade deadline has passed. Akeeb Talib traded from the Rams to the Dolphins. A fifth round draft pick going back to the Rams. Massive stuff that's going to affect the playoff races all across the league. And that's essentially it.

This is what you want me to be excited about? Kneel before your God. The NFL. And the trade deadline. The Panthers staying Pat. The Browns. Everyone thought they should do something.

They stay Pat. The Browns are a funny deal. I don't want to get off on a side tangent, but it's hilarious how many people are mad at Baker Mayfield because he's on all these TV commercials. How about you try winning a game?

News flash. You could be damn good at football and do TV ads, okay? It's one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard in sports that somebody is great or bad or, excuse me, somebody is bad because they're spending too much time doing GQ interviews or, dare I say, appearing in these commercials. I happen to like the Baker commercials.

They were all funny. Like him being in the Browns stadium and watching a movie on the big screen with his girl. Then she wants a popcorn so he walks all the way down onto the field and gets to the concourse and then walks all the way back with a soda as well and she says, where's my straw? And it has him getting back up to leaving it.

Those commercials are great. So get off Baker Mayfield's back for trying to make a buck. What was I talking about? Oh yeah, trade deadline. Massive stuff.

Aqib Daleeb. It really was two weeks ago where you have Mohamed Sanu and Jalen Ramsey being traded, which are moderate names but the NFL is never gonna hock the NBA or Major League Baseball deadlines down in terms of the appeal of those days because the stars simply don't get traded in the NFL. Like what is the equivalent?

Genuinely interested. What is the equivalent in Major League Baseball or excuse me in the NFL to a top player being traded in the NBA? Like what would it have to be? Because the NBA, I would say six of the ten most recognizable athletes in the country are NBA players in terms of popularity, in terms of stars. Braun, Steph, Harden, KD.

You could go down that list. Harden. I already said Harden. Giannis now.

Holy bleep desk. I said four names. You said them really fast. One of them was Harden. Come on now.

You skated right through it. Yeah, Zion is probably right on the border of that, which is crazy. Zion is more popular, more recognizable than every single NFL player but Brady. I'd go as far to say that.

So there really isn't an equivalent here. Like it would take quarterbacks being traded in order for this to be massive. Now I understand fantasy football is a lot more popular than fantasy basketball and Major League Baseball's fantasy leagues. So people actually are really paying attention to see if Robbie Anderson's gonna be traded for a fourth round draft pick. That's what the Jets were wanting in return.

Nobody bid on that. But it's hard for me to really get excited about left tackles being shopped. Like Trent Williams, who didn't go anywhere. You know, I think a lot of that has to do with the nature of the NFL itself because the value in an NFL player, especially if they're a star, they're probably under the age of 30. So they're probably on their first contract. So it's not really beneficial for the team to trade them because they're getting them at a value that's much lower. Hold up, though. The biggest stars of the game are quarterbacks and the best quarterbacks are over 30.

Excusing them. I mean, because you were saying unless it's a quarterback, we're probably not gonna see this type of trade happen. I'm saying we probably don't because of the nature of the NFL. They tend to go younger with these types of skill players. Why don't quarterbacks get traded?

Like, why doesn't that happen? Well, I mean, teams pretty much own you. I mean, once you get through a contract... Like Bridgewater was traded in the season last year, but he wasn't starting for the Jets.

Right. The reason he got traded was because Darnold was starting those games. But who's stopping Andy Dalton from being traded to the Chicago Bears, let's say? Who wants Andy Dalton? I mean, that's a whole other question. Who wants Mitch Trubisky right now? Yeah. So, I mean, there's really only a handful of quarterbacks really in the league that you would trade for.

Oh, no. There are definitely 15 to 17 quarterbacks who it would be the biggest story in sports for a week if they were traded. Yeah, but what would you have to give up?

17 quarterbacks. What would you have to give up is my question. I mean, to give up so much would even be worth even pursuing those guys. It's a good point considering Jalen Ramsey cost how much? Two first-rounders. Two first-rounders and a fourth. That's Deion Sanders type of bounty to me. Like, you're giving up two first-rounders?

Right. So what would the quarterbacks cost? I mean, take Aaron Rodgers.

He's, what, 35, but he's clearly one of the top two quarterbacks still in the game today, right? How much would it take to pry Aaron Rodgers away from the Packers? Like, five first-rounders?

I don't know, and that's why it doesn't happen. But in the NBA, you do see trades like this. And in Major League Baseball at the deadline, it's almost an annual thing.

Rentals and players of that nature. Well, a lot of that too in the NBA. I think the players have more control now than the NFL players do. But they're trying. The NFL is trying.

Yeah. You see, guys, there are more trades than there normally have been. Jalen Ramsey. Ramsey.

Mohamed Sanu. I was really surprised AJ Green didn't go anywhere. Did any of those Bengals get traded? None of them?

I don't think so. Zeno Atkins didn't go. None of them.

Eiffert. Nobody got traded. Upper management decided they were all gonna suck together for the rest of the year.

Ryan Finley. Fire them up. How do you feel if you're a keep to leave today?

You wake up and realize you've been traded to the worst team in the NFL and you just played the Super Bowl like eight months ago. I'm not hating it. I'll tell you why.

I'm hurt right now and I'm gonna rehab in Miami. That's true. I don't know if you know this. There's no state income tax in Miami.

That is also valid as well. I'd say there are worse places. Like if you get shipped off to Cincinnati, if you've been to Cincinnati in the winter, I tell you it's not great.

I've been to Ohio in the winter. I can assume it's probably similar. Suboptimal. The best way to talk about that. I'm looking at my ACC rankings I have. David Glenn's gonna join us.

We'll discuss what we have here. Every week at accsports.com we put it out here. If you're ranking the top of the ACC, how do you do it? Because my rankings and DG's rankings are completely different.

Let's just go through the top. Man, there's just so much fluctuation. Between what DG believes and what I believe when it comes to the ACC. Let's just go one through ten. I'm not gonna go all the way to 14 because we all agree state's in that bottom four. Syracuse, Georgia Tech, Boston College, they're bad. Those four teams. But me and DG were in agreement.

Shocker. Clemson is the number one team in the ACC. Number two, I had Wake Forest. DG had Louisville because Louisville beat Wake.

He has Wake third. I have Louisville third. I have Louisville third.

Fourth, I have North Carolina over Virginia. He has Virginia and Virginia Tech over North Carolina because Virginia Tech head-to-head has beaten the Tar Heels. So his one through six Clemson, Louisville, Wake Forest, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina. Mine Clemson, Wake Forest, Louisville, North Carolina at four, Virginia five, Pitt six. Pitt eighth for him. He has Miami over Pitt because Miami this past weekend, you guessed it, beat Pittsburgh.

I'm not basing anything off one result because there's so many things you could have as disqualifiers. I have North Carolina over Virginia because North Carolina does not have a bad loss this year. I think North Carolina is the favorite to win the Coastal if you ask me today. Now Virginia Tech, if they went out, will have a tiebreaker over North Carolina. But the Tar Heels, they only have three more games left to play in ACC play. They're at home against Virginia. I think they'll win this weekend. Virginia's banged up. They don't have Bryce Hall. The Tar Heels, they're getting Miles Wolf look back. Better coach, better quarterback, real home crowd, primetime game. I like North Carolina to win that game.

But the rest of it is anybody's guess. Like differentiating who's better between Miami, Virginia Tech, Pitt, and Florida State. Oh, and Duke.

Good luck. How do you begin to figure out who's better between Pitt, Duke, Virginia Tech, Miami, and Florida State? How?

House way. This is Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh seems like that team that's always floating under like the consciousness of like the regular fan and they end up being towards the top of the Coastal. But the amazing thing, as people make fun of the Coastal division, and rightfully so, three of the worst four teams in the ACC are in the Atlantic. BC, State, and Syracuse are three of the four worst teams. So while you pick fun at the Coastal, BC, NC State, and Syracuse would still be equally as bad, I think, if they were in the Coastal division. I really believe that. Yeah, I would take Miami over NC State right now any day, or even Georgia Tech over Syracuse or Boston College right now. There's a very important headline that we need to talk about here. And I'm not talking about the NCAA stuff.

We'll get to that in the five things of five and beyond that with DG and such. There is a Tennessee man filing a lawsuit against Popeyes for running out of chicken sandwiches. It's going to trial on Monday. Or excuse me, no, the trial is set for January the 8th. Yesterday, they set that trial date. This guy is seeking $5,000 after allegedly experiencing, quote, emotional damages and wasted time, end quote.

He claims the company's liable for damages to his car, which was allegedly inflicted by driving back and forth to different restaurant locations while attempting to purchase said sandwich. Aren't they bringing this thing back? Yeah, buddy. It comes back Monday. I am ready.

I am ready. There's no way that this sandwich meets the hype. Bro. It's impossible. It's fast food.

I was the same way. And I'm probably more skeptical than you are when it comes to chicken. It's fast food. I don't think you are more skeptical than I am. When it comes to chicken sandwiches, I'm very particular. I'm like one of the most skeptical people you'll ever meet. Someone asked me, someone said, Josh, you're judgmental. And I always say, yeah.

Are you kidding me? I get paid to be judgmental. My job is judgmental. I'm an opinionist. I'm on the radio. You're judgmental.

No bleep. That's like me going up to an accountant saying, you're good at math. You like numbers.

You like numbers. You're judgmental. Do you like the Chick-fil-A sandwich? Or do you like the sandwich from Zaxby's? I'm not a Zaxby's sandwich guy. I don't like the Zaxby's sandwich. My life was changed when I got the spicy sandwich at Chick-fil-A.

Changed everything. I never got the chicken sandwich at cookout. But Jones Angel, in the press box on Saturday, the voice of the Tar Heels, after he came on this show and gave us cookout order, was very excited to do so. He said that.

He was very excited. He said, you got to try the chicken sandwich. I didn't know they had a good chicken sandwich at cookout. Unaware.

Man, I thought the same thing and then I sat down in my kitchen and bit into one and it changed my life. I did not expect it to happen the way it did. That's why I want to share it with you. I don't believe you. I didn't believe it either. I was like, I'm not standing in line for two hours for a chicken sandwich. This makes no sense. And then I did with the church folk.

I went on a Sunday and it was everything I thought it would be. I'm gonna bring you one. Call me a hipster for saying this. It's fine if I sound as such or like an elitist with his pinky finger up. I don't like being told I'm gonna like something. See, that's the problem.

I don't like it. That's the problem right there. You don't want to be told what to do.

That's human nature, though. When I sold educational material door to door in Texas, we had the great sales paradox. Would you like to hear the great sales paradox? It's one of the most helpful things I've ever learned. It's something you can apply to every facet of your life, not just sales. Are you ready for this?

Go for it. People hate being sold on things. We hate being sold on things more than anything in our life. Like, we hate it. We don't like being sold. It's like when you're waking up, when you're a kid and your mom says, breakfast is ready.

We got food. Get out of bed. And you don't get up quickly. Why? Part of you doesn't want to appease that woman. Doesn't want you to appease her. Get up. Even though you know damn well you want that breakfast. You want that food. Why? You don't like being sold on things.

On the flip side, us Americans, we love to buy stuff. It just has to be our idea. You can lead. You can lead a horse to water, right?

We got to drink the water though, right? We hate being sold on things. However, we love to buy stuff. So when people say you're going to love Game of Thrones more than anything ever, oh my God, there's no way you can dislike Game of Thrones. It's got boobs.

It has a lot of boobs. Kind of like the World Series the other night. Like, right? I don't want to go just to simply appease those people. I don't want to appease them. I don't want to be sold on something. I just want to find Game of Thrones and watch it.

Say they were the walking dead. If this makes me sound like a hipster, it's completely fine. I don't like being the guy who's being sold on the most popular thing out there. Both those things you said are true, but we also live in a world where people won't buy or do something unless the recommendations and reviews are fantastic.

You look at reviews, you see if it's four star, five star, rotten tomatoes. That helps convince you though. That helps you decide if you're going to watch The Joker or not, right?

That's not true. I was going to watch. I avoided those reviews. I'm not a big review guy before I go watch a movie. That's strange because you watch a lot of movies. I watch a ton of movies. When I go to the theater, I don't do that. Now, if I'm trying to pick a movie on Netflix like yesterday, I was watching You've Got Mail. Very outdated movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan. It was show research. Right. I will search what Roger Ebert ranked that movie back in 1997 or whatever year.

I'll do that when I'm at home. I don't want to waste my time on my couch watching a movie that's bad. I don't want to do that for the theater. If it's something I'm interested in, I'll go and I don't want to have any other opinion as I walk into the theater.

Same for The Joker. I'm hearing all this and all I'm hearing is that you don't like chicken as much as I thought you did. I love chicken. You're going to love this. I'm going to eat the sandwich. I'm sick and tired of everybody telling me how much I'm going to like this damn sandwich. It's so good. Stop.

It's so good. You are listening to WSJS Winston-Salem, WCOG Greensboro, WPC in Berlin to WMFR High Point. Those signals making up Sports Hub Triad. Hey, this is The Try. Oh, okay. Thank you. Oh, God.

With Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. Desmond, I got to know, are you playing Incubus because you like Incubus or because the song is called Drive? I like Incubus. Well, I did like Incubus back in the day. One of the singles they had. How does it feel to say a sentence on Sports Talk Radio that's never been said before? I like Incubus.

Thank you. I'd be willing to say no one's ever said in the history of sports radio on the air, I like Incubus. I think you highly misrepresent the popularity of Incubus back in the early 2000s.

I might. That type of music is more popular than people give it credit for. I was in Winston-Salem and I went to this bar on Labor Day Sunday, the day before everybody was off. And someone just said, hey, you want to hang out? They got live music.

OK, cool. And there were a ton of people, like a lot, a lot of people and a stage. And it turned out to be Fuel was performing.

I like Fuel. They could be Incubus' cousins. Yeah. Everybody has that sound.

It's the same sound. And I'm going to give it to you right now. Fuel, Creed. I think Incubus qualifies. You ready for it? Yeah.

That's early 2000s, late 90s rock summed up very quickly right there. Anywho, David Glenn now with us, our early afternoon host. We have our weekly rankings up every week for ACC football one through 14. A week from the day, we'll be talking about the start of college basketball season. But we have this massive NCAA headline from the day that I'm trying to figure out just how massive it is, because really it's just the NCAA saying, yeah, we agree with what Gavin Newsom signed in California about name, image and likeness, but we don't have to present any legislation, any rules for our three levels, our three divisions of the NCAA until 2021. How big of a deal do you believe it to be, DG? Well, it's a big step because it's the NCAA for the first time ever on the record saying it's okay with us moving forward at some point, details to be announced much later that it's okay for these college athletes to make money off their names, their likeness, their image.

That's unplowed territory. That is straying from an amateurism model that has been in place for more than 100 years. And that is a big deal. Now, they said in the release several things.

One, probably no implementation until 2021. Another thing that has to be structured in a way that this money they're going to be allowed to take now is not in the form of recruiting incentives, so that Big Booster owns big company and ties the big spokesman money to the idea that you'll enroll at this school or sign with that school. So there's going to be all sorts of details that have to be plowed through. But that doesn't mean it's a nothing day. It matters. It's just that the details down the road matter a lot more than the announcement today.

Legally speaking, what interests you most about the statements put out? Well, it's clear. I think you and I have discussed a fork in the road where the NCAA could have gone, and we all bet against this, but they could have gone wild, wild west. And they could have just said, you know what, as long as you're not taking money specifically to perform in a sport, right, that would make you a true professional, a basketball player taking money to play in some exhibition game or some semi-pro game.

That road is not going to be crossed. But they could have said all other money, third parties, you know, we're not going to regulate it, we're not going to control it, we're not going to play middleman. And instead, of course, they tend to go the regulation route. And there are going to be a lot of legal questions about what they are allowed to limit. For example, what if the NCAA, Josh, says you're the stud athlete, you're collecting this money as a spokesperson person or for signing autographs or for allowing a video game to use your name and likeness in their product, maybe the NCAA says, you know what, they've got to go through us to negotiate with you, or they can talk to you directly, but we have to hold the money, or we hold the money until the end of your career with this university. The NCAA tends to like to control things. And today's statement made clear they're not going wild, wild west.

They are going to pay attention, and they're going to try to govern something that is going to be hard to govern. Because imagine Josh the booster that wants to pay you, the stud athlete, to be a pitchman. And what he really wants is for you to stay at his school or sign at his school.

What if he offers you $50,000? Is the NCAA really going to say, well, that's $50,000 truly to be the pitchman, to be on the billboard for Billy Bob's tractors, right? Or is it really $20,000 to be the pitchman and $30,000 in a silent but understood, hey, you better stay at my school or you're never going to see the rest of that money? I mean, good luck reading people's minds, good luck arguing over what fair market value is, but all of those headaches are awaiting us. And as long as the NCAA is going to regulate this, and again, clearly they're going to try, we're just going to see different and new criticisms of the NCAA, even as they're opening the side door to this kind of third party money. But I'm also interested to see how the NCAA is going to try and regulate it, or if they're going to follow through in the way people are assuming they're going to. Because while we see these headlines saying that, oh, it's going to happen, they're going to allow for athletes to profit off their name, image, and likeness, all of those are couched with word salad statements. And also I think in the first statement put out with a quote, in a manner consistent with the collegiate model, end quote, which is not in any way, there's nothing about this idea of allowing athletes to profit from their likeness that is in any way consistent with the collegiate model.

We're also seeing this idea about the modernization of the collegiate model. John Curry, Wake Forest's director of athletics was with us earlier in the show, and he even said it's a big step that they're willing to acknowledge this and try to attack it head on. I just am incredibly skeptical about the NCAA here because I think they're going to fight this tooth and nail, and they just bought themselves a little bit of time by having that window by 2021 and doing so. This is the same NCAA DG that overreached with the Penn State stuff and overreached with Shapiro in Miami. And also, many have opinions both ways on the Rice Commission, how productive that actually was with the college basketball probe and of course the North Carolina academic scandal. Why should I believe the NCAA is in fact going to start doing the right thing here? Well, you shouldn't believe that. You should believe that they're cracking the door for a new kind of compensation to athletes that have never been permissible before. That is a big deal, and I think you're underestimating the size of the change here.

But where you're right is to be skeptical. The NCAA is truly a seasoned professional at kicking the can down the road. I mean, how long did they delay unlimited meals for athletes? That was ridiculous.

I mean, there were truly examples years ago where athletes would have finished the final swipe on their meal plan, and if you're from a certain background, you don't have money from home, and you truly have the proverbial starving athlete in a sport that had become a multi-billion dollar industry. That was outrageous. Everybody knew that was outrageous, and eventually it became such an issue in the public forum that guess what? A new rule was adopted.

Now it's limitless meals for athletes. Did that happen out of the goodness of the NCAA's heart? No. It happened after they were taking a pounding in the court of public opinion. When did the cost of attendance adjustment happen? When the revenue was so big that we should have re-examined? Did the athletes deserve more than room board tuition?

No. It was decades after the NCAA became a mega million and then multi-billion dollar industry, it was within this current decade that they finally got this cost of attendance adjustment money that in a fair do the right thing world, they would have done probably in the 1990s, if not before. So they're decades behind truly doing the right thing on the right timetable, and you're right to be skeptical about the timetable here, but they're drawing lines already that you can see. You can't make this third-party money a recruiting inducement, or it'll still be against the rules. You can't make this money for athletic performance or athletics participation.

That's true professional type stuff. That remains prohibited, but the billboard stuff in the California law that helps propel the NCAA's hand forward, or even these other state-by-state proposals, the billboard pitchman is going to be in play. The autograph signings for money are going to be in play. The car dealership that has you do an appearance date is going to be in play, and that is brewery for the NCAA.

We just won't know all the details until 2021. This weekend, it's a massive ACC football game with North Carolina hosting Virginia. Both teams are three and two in the Coastal, tied for the lead in the Coastal at the moment, which also means after this game, they each only have two ACC games remaining this season. I think the winner of this game is going to win the Coastal Division. If I had to pick one of the two, I'd probably say North Carolina because they're a little bit healthier. Bryce Hall's out with Virginia, one of the best players in the country at his position. Miles Wolfhook, likely to return for North Carolina. They're at home. You and I both saw it Saturday.

These crowds, they're legitimate sellout crowds. I'm getting a better coach, I think, in Hall of Famer Mac Brown. I'm also getting a slightly better quarterback, too, and Sam Hall over Bryce Perkins. How do you see the matchup and what it might mean in the overall big picture of the ACC? Well, it's unpredictable, and I agree with you that the winner of UVA UNC will be probably the best bet to win the Coastal. Now, Coastal chaos suggests that that doesn't mean a whole lot, and I certainly would not count out the Pitt Panthers. Remember, Pitt only has two conference losses. Virginia Tech only has two conference losses, and Pitt's remaining schedule is at a lowly Georgia Tech team. Carolina up in Pittsburgh on a Thursday night, national TV, at Virginia Tech, which is 5-2 but has its issues, and then home against Boston College. Those are very winnable games for the Pitt Panthers, and they did take that trip to Charlotte last year, so I don't think we should sleep on them.

I like your breakdown of UVA at UNC. The Tar Heels are at home. The Tar Heels may be getting slightly healthier with some guys back from injury.

Even as you mentioned, Bryce Hall is out for UVA's best player. Bryce Perkins, their starting quarterback, is really beat up behind a problematic offensive line that was exposed by Louisville this past weekend. So, it's crazy to say on October 29th, because the Tar Heels are only 4-4, but at home, they should beat the UVA Cavaliers. They should get to 5-4. They should get to 4-2 in the conference play, and that would give Mac Brown a shot at a trip to an ACC title game in the same year that most predicted the Heels would be at the bottom of the division. No matter what, the Heels have taken a big step forward in year one under Mac Brown. Can they connect these dots and make that magical season happen? Man, they could be anywhere from 5-7 and missing a bowl to 8-4 and playing Clemson in the ACC title game. That's how chaotic the Coastal is, and I think that part still applies to the Tar Heels and everybody else.

Jamie Newman at the very top. So I asked Coach Clawson, hey, what gives here? What's going to decide who starts at quarterback?

And here's what Coach Clawson had to say earlier today. I mean, you know, if Jamie can go, he'll go. If not, Sam will go. How close is Jamie? If Jamie can go, he'll go.

If Jamie can't go, Sam will go. So, you and I were discussing, DG, the day of the Florida State game. Yeah, you and I were discussing who was going to start against Florida State.

We saw Jamie Newman walking in the Deke walk. He didn't have anything around his non-throwing left shoulder. We thought legitimately there was a chance he could play against the Seminoles. It's been a bye week since, and it seems like he's still banged up. How concerned after hearing that should Deke fans be about Jamie Newman? Yeah, I'd be concerned.

We just don't know how much. I'll give Dave Clawson credit. He did not get involved in any shenanigans a year ago when Sam Hartman got hurt. He didn't play any of the gamesmanship games, misdirection, force your opponent to prepare for two quarterbacks, and he is a man of integrity.

So I think some of the criticism of him right now, not from you, Josh, but from others, is speculative, at best, to be nice about it. There is sometimes an advantage to your opponent not knowing who's going to strap up the chin strap. In this case, I take Dave Clawson for his word. We all know anybody who's been an athlete and is overcoming something. I mean, as a left-handed pitcher, I can tell you there were days that my shoulder hurt so bad I couldn't go. But my coach said, if D.G. is ready, he's getting the start tonight. And I think that's where Jamie Newman is. Even after an off week, you'd think you'd have more information.

We don't. So NC State has to prepare for two, I think, significantly different styles of quarterback, and that doesn't make it easy for a team that's in a position that they might have to scratch and claw just to get into a bowl game. They beat Wake. All of a sudden, they're 5-3 and looking good. If they lose, they're 4-4, and I think some Wolves will be howling.

That QB situation at Wake doesn't make Dave Doran's defensive job an easy one. D.G., good to hear from you, man. A lot of stuff going on.

Basketball starting next week, and we've got a couple ranked teams in this area in the state of North Carolina. Appreciate you spending some time with us. That'll be fun, Josh.

Take care, buddy. You got it. That's David Glenn. Noon to three right here on Sports Hub Triad.

You could give them a listen. Tomorrow, we're going to be joined by the Hall of Fame sports writer from the Sporting News, Mike DeCorsie. On Thursday, it'll be NC State head coach Dave Doran. And also, we'll get into Appalachian State's Halloween matchup with Georgia Southern. Going to be a night game at the Rock this week, so pretty exciting stuff.