Who's the bigger bummer?

This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast.

Tune into The Drive weekday afternoons three to seven on Sports Hub Triad. I was at both Duke's 30-point win against Notre Dame and North Carolina's last second loss to Virginia from over the weekend, but we've got to talk about NC State. Boston College?

Really? Again? You're gonna reject what I'm about to say, but hear me out. I think NC State has been a bigger disappointment than North Carolina this year. That isn't to say North Carolina is better than NC State, but I think more disappointing.

The reason I believe this is because of a simple rule I follow. I'd rather be disappointed and understand the reasons why I'm disappointed or why something is disappointing than to be disappointed and to be equally confused. It's so much easier to explain why North Carolina has been underachieving than NC State's.

It's just so hard to explain it to somebody. Last year, NC State right on the cut line, they get Markell Johnson back. Oh, the pack, they're gonna be a shoo-in to the NCAA tournament.

They're upgrading in the offseason. Here they come into the year. It's a down year for the ACC. It's a down year for college basketball. NC State surely is gonna be a part of the field of 64, but right now it just hasn't been that. Joe Leonardi has NC State not even on the first four out, but the next four out in bracketology. Neither, for North Carolina, if you're trying to explain it, it's simple. You go, okay, they lost four starters from last year and a seer little and they've had a ton of significant injuries.

Neither of those apply to NC State. That isn't to say they haven't had injuries. Pat Andres, he's gonna be out for a little while. He missed last night's game. Markell Johnson, he missed the start of the year, so it got off to a rocky start.

DJ Funderburk, he had the suspension at the start of the year. CJ Bryce, he was banged up for a stretch. So I'm not saying there haven't been nicks and bruises along the way, but with North Carolina, Brandon Robinson missed essentially the first month of the year and he's been out the last week and a half. Anthony Harris, out for the season before the calendar turned to January. Sterling Manley didn't play a minute this year. These are guys that we expected to be a part of this Tar Heel basketball team that just aren't there. With NC State, you still have the core of your team, the guys you're supposed to be relying on, and they just haven't shown up. Markell Johnson, NC State needed a lot more from him last night.

It's that simple. His stat line, four fouls, six turnovers in 17 minutes. Only scored four points.

His final minute was inexcusable. Down one, turns it over leading to a home run layup. NC State down one again. Couldn't catch the pass. I know you look at the replay, you see that Boston College's player has a foot on the in-line, he was out of bounds, the official missed the call, but that doesn't excuse Markell not holding on to it and allowing for an official's call one way or the other, the subjectivity of it all, to play a result in the play.

To have the home run layup put BC up three again. Devin Daniels, he was wild on that possession so I don't want to excuse him completely either, but Markell is supposed to be the guy. The final possession, what's Markell doing throwing it into the paint with three seconds left to go in the game.

You're down three. Granted CJ is a smooth player and smart enough to go beyond the three-point line and not settle for the two, give NC State a look, but I had no idea what Markell was doing on that play. He hasn't been reliable at all.

So trying to explain a way NC State is difficult. They have three of their five starters from last year back. Wyatt Walker, it was kind of mutual for him to transfer out of the program. You felt better about Manny Bates and Andres coming in and DJ Thunderbrook at that spot. So really you're only losing one starter you wish you had back in Torren Dorn, but Braxton Beverly back, Devin Daniels back.

These are guys who have done good things. It's hard to explain why NC State's in this spot. The Wolfpack hasn't beaten a ranked team this year. North Carolina at least took out Oregon. Heck look in the ACC, Clemson. Clemson not even close to the NCAA conversation. Took out Louisville by double digits over the weekend. Clemson also beaten Duke. They beat a good TCU team out of conference. NC State 0-2 against ranked opponents. Lost to Auburn which isn't ranked in the top ten. Lost to Louisville who just got beaten by Georgia Tech and got beaten by as I mentioned Clemson in the last week. And that game was in Raleigh. You lost that game by 20 points. On top of that NC State lost to North Carolina too at home. That North Carolina team. Cole Anthony wasn't even out on the floor in that game. Memphis was ranked at the time when they met in Brooklyn.

Lost that game. Unlike North Carolina, an at-large bid is still obtainable for NC State though. So if we're trying to spin this positively, the Syracuse win that they got last week that still qualifies at this moment as a quad one win. Wisconsin got a big win over the weekend.

So they bump up to that being a quad one win. NC State beating Wisconsin at home in the big ACC Big Ten challenge. You have three cracks at Duke and Florida State the rest of the way. It starts Wednesday night in Raleigh. Duke goes into PNC Arena. Saturday Florida State comes to Raleigh. You close the year pretty much at Duke.

So you have three opportunities to get another solid win. But I don't think that really matters if you lose it home to Pittsburgh or lose to Syracuse the rest of the way. Or excuse me, to Wake Forest.

If you lose one of those two games, I don't think the committee is gonna look favorably on that. Or if they flame out on day two of the ACC tournament in Greensboro. That's where NC State is at at the moment. Disappointing because it's hard to explain. North Carolina it's easy to explain.

So I think NC State has been a bigger disappointment this year. Your thoughts are welcome on the show. You could tweet them at us at Sports Hub Triad. Robert Walsh is the producer of this program. Aaron Gabriel in the house as well.

336-777-1600 is the phone number. We're gonna cover all bases of the Big Four. Wake Forest legend Dave Odom gonna join the show in 25 minutes. His name is going up in the rafters of Joel Coliseum Wednesday night when they honor the 1995 Wake Forest team that finished first in the ACC standings.

So we'll talk dekes momentarily. I mentioned I was at Duke on Saturday. The Blue Devils get their fifth 30-point win of the season. Fifth ACC 30-point win of the season to further emphasize.

And the day after Valentine's Day, Robert, my crush showed up to Cameron Indoor Stadium. Zion Williamson showed up at the under 16 timeout of the second half and Zion he summoned Scary Duke. They were gonna beat Notre Dame regardless. John Mooney was in foul trouble. You had Durham who was having a nice game. He was in foul trouble. They were both out of the game.

Vernon Carey was dominant. They were up by 17 points 54 to 37 when Zion showed up. But what we saw in the following 10 minutes after Zion arrived was what I described to be Scary Duke. I don't think they were gonna win by 30 the pace they were going even with the foul trouble for Mooney and Durham. Over the next nine or ten minutes Duke outscored Notre Dame 26 to 12. The players were clearly putting on a show for Zion.

Alex O'Connell who had 15 in the game. He hits a three and he does the three goggles towards Zion who's sitting right behind the bench and Zion returns the three goggles in kind. Matthew Hurt did a pretty similar thing. They put Mike Buckmeyer in who was the right-hand man to Zion. He dishes to the admiral's boy David Robinson for a dunk and it was just a neat moment in the locker room. Zion catching up with the guys. Tyus Jones was down there too.

Had a chance to speak with Queen Cook briefly but I had a chance to talk about among current players Mike Buckmeyer and just asked him about how Zion's presence affected the game and this is what Mike said. I didn't even realize he was gonna come actually and then we heard all the yelling and stuff and all that and started looking around like oh yeah of course of course yeah so yeah it's good to have him back and I know like he just even talking to him a little bit like you just saying like the college atmosphere like you can't get that anywhere else especially here at Duke so I know he enjoys it and we enjoy having him back. And Duke won that game without Cassius Stanley in the lineup. Notre Dame had a lot to play for and still it is Duke big. Ed in Winston-Salem really quick well what do you got for me in terms of a question?

Ed go right ahead. Yes Josh I'd like your opinion please do you think Carolina is going to flame out tonight like a get against Wake or do you think it's gonna be a competitive game against Notre Dame like they had you know the last three heartbreaking games they've lost in Chapel Hill? Yeah Ed I I think North Carolina is gonna win tonight. I think I think they're gonna build off of what they did against Duke and against Virginia this past Saturday remember they played each other to open the season ACC games to open the regular season Cole Anthony had a big day I really feel Duke broke Notre Dame spirit on Saturday North Carolina I think there are things to take away from Saturday I really do and remember we're gonna get the Dave Odom in about 20 minutes but speaking of those things to build on I'll tell you why North Carolina's loss to Virginia actually was a positive for the heels going forward next on the drive. Hey this is The Drive.

Oh okay thank you. Oh God. With Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. Hot takes bring them right now three three six seven seven seven one six hundred this is a segment we welcome your involvement just as long as you don't bring in a take that we deem to be lukewarm I want something that your friends have been making fun of you thinking or something you're just worried they're gonna judge you if you say it out loud those type of takes at three three six seven seven seven one six hundred hot takes only Aaron's lock and loaded Robert's lock and loaded I'm lock and loaded so let's dive right in let's get crazy if you have a hot take that we deemed to be face searing hot you will be rewarded with the following sound the greatest gift we can bestow on you the listener I'll get us started NC State tough loss for them last night against Boston College but they are still in the at-large bid hunt so I think this is gonna happen over the next eight days NC State's gonna beat Duke Wednesday night and then beat Florida State on Saturday then lose the North Carolina next Tuesday that would be the most NC State stuff to ever happen beat Duke beat Florida State oh my god we're great and then lose the North Carolina to get swept to the season series NC State that's what I think is gonna happen John in Winston-Salem let's get crazy John the Los Angeles Clippers are going to lose to the Denver Nuggets in the first round how are the Nuggets gonna be facing the Clippers in the first round to the records match up in any way there Robert I don't think that's a crazy take I don't know what the crazy part is that the Nuggets would play the Clippers in the first round or would that happen the Clippers lose to the Nuggets if the Nuggets did beat the Clippers in the first round cancel basketball cancel the entire playoffs Aaron let's get crazy lots of Astros news going around going around going around the Astros cheating scandal is the best thing that happened to baseball since Barry Bonds best thing why is it the best thing because I've never paid this much attention to baseball in my life I'm actually looking forward to open the day when the Angels and the Astros play it's amazing that this is the place baseball has landed on people don't care about the transactions heck one of the best players in the sport Paul Goldschmidt can go from one team to the other Mookie bets from the Red Sox to the Dodgers we don't care about that let's talk about the ways we can fix baseball how about we talk about ways that the Astros should be punished and what they did did they wear buzzers who knows what kind of tattoo is Jose Altuve wearing what kind of steroids is Barry Bonds and taking that's a lot more interesting and a lot more fun to talk about I don't know if it's good for the game but that certainly qualifies as a hot take I'm up next President's Day it's a holiday today did you guys know that happy yeah why why are we here in the next five years President's Day is gonna get moved up two weeks to becoming the day after the Super Bowl where everybody gets off work the best journalistic work I've ever done was asking then governor Pat McCrory if he would have a day in the calendar become the post Super Bowl holiday like in North Carolina would there be a Super Bowl hangover day he looked at me like I was a lunatic but I still did the Lord's work and asking that question I think the only way it can happen is if we kind of mask it with another holiday so if we do President's Day two weeks ahead of time then it's kind of killing two birds with with one stone or as PETA would like us to say feeding two birds with one scone yeah getting two birds stoned at once that's the best idea you've ever had ever let's get crazy Scott in Greensboro let's get crazy Scott Tim Duncan's replacing Danny Manning as Wake's coach and he's bringing Becky Hammond and from San Antonio as his number one assistant oh I don't know if it wouldn't be the other way around Becky Hammond I think deserves the head coaching job over Tim Duncan who's in his first year as an assistant altogether but there's a thought Tim Duncan returns to the Joel on Wednesday Dave Odom says he thinks he's going to be there he said that last hour Tim Duncan gonna return baby be head coach of the Deacons that's a hot take three three six seven seven seven one six hundred is the phone number Robert let's get crazy we all agree that Zion has been pretty amazing so far I would say but not amazing enough to win Rookie of the Year well he's gonna do something that's gonna help push him past John Moran Zion will record the league's fifth ever quadruple double with blocks the last one was in 1994 by David Robinson he's gonna do that before the end of the year and win Rookie of the Year that's crazy talk Aaron the segment is called let's get crazy let's get crazy Aaron back in the day the AFL and the NFL got together to play each other and they called it the Super Bowl history will repeat itself as the XFL champions will play the NFL's bottom dwellers coming up in the next three seasons what would we call that game the toilet bowl that wouldn't be much of a contest I don't think what XFL teams beat say Alabama or LSU last year I don't think so it's actually a better question than the NFL question people always David and Greensboro you're up next David let's get crazy the Astros are gonna sign Carlos Beltran and Alex core at a retirement and win the World Series that would be fantastic though they already have dusty Baker is the manager though like it would be funny it would be hilarious if the Red Sox just said they still have a manager yeah we'll take Carlos Beltran yeah we got Alex Cora out I've already seen the rumor thrown out there the Red Sox they traded away Mookie bets because he had one year left on his contract knowing that they're gonna get hammered by Major League Baseball this year so they're just seeing the writing on the wall things are gonna go badly and then while Alex Cora is out for a year they're just gonna bring him right back next year that's the thing they're gonna do I can't take credit for that it's just it's just a rumor being thrown out there Robert you say you got something let's get crazy I watched once upon a time in Hollywood last night for the first time I was a little late at the party but you know what I'm gonna go ahead and say it is the worst Tarantino movie since death proof do you count death proof I half of it I guess half of the double feature that he was in charge of it's been the worst since that Josh I got a movie hot take to you ready yeah fire away here's my movie hot take Valentine's Day I watched Good Will hunting with my girlfriend nice Sarah Bradford seemed to enjoy that very much will and Skylar he had to see about a girl right yes they broke up after one week they broke up after one week there's no way the relationship works after he says to her face I don't love you and she's on the phone afterwards giving him a second chance I love you will well have a great day there's no chance that that relationship worked like how does that work yeah take me back I'm really wicked smart yeah I like apples but we don't know if he likes apples but the guy who was smarty pants history in the bar yeah will asked if he liked apples and he got a number how do you like them apples Aaron have is the well completely dry from you Robert erasable pins are dumb you shouldn't me you should mean what you write in pen get a pencil you dingus all right we've exercised everything here we're empty running on empty how much shows left a little over an hour huh I think we'll get there multiple hours what I'll tell you why NC State has been a bigger disappointment than North Carolina this year next on the drive Josh Graham loves to talk sports he also loves to daydream about sports mostly about being the locker room towel boy you're on the drive with Josh Graham according to loads the Cleveland Cavaliers and John beeline are in discussions for both sides to part ways I believed beeline to be the most underrated college basketball coach of the last decade with the Michigan Wolverines taking that team to the Final Four a couple of times losing to the Louisville Cardinals and Rick Pitino in 2013 oh wait the NCAA said they didn't win that national title so I guess they didn't yeah revoking championships doesn't seem to really work Reggie Bush he won in 2005 as far as I'm concerned and Memphis I watched Derrick Rose play in that Final Four so I'm going to say they played in that championship game and lost to Kansas and on top of that I'm gonna say John beeline lost to the Louisville Cardinals in the championship game that's a side brand since beeline might be back on the market for college teams to pursue I've seen more than a few Wake Forest fans say that's what we need Danny Manning he isn't getting the job done one NCAA tournament appearance in five years and it's gonna be six years this season unless they pull off a miracle in the ACC tournament by any standard that's not good enough at wake it just isn't when you're talking about a program from 91 to 2010 that only Maryland North Carolina and Duke had more ACC wins then it's just not acceptable to go to the NCAA tournament one time in six years there's got to be change I've said it on this show I try to be as transparent and honest as I can if it wasn't for the buyout figure a year ago I think it would have already happened I think there are three reasons why with beeline though it's not a fit with wake farce number one he would be twice as expensive as Danny is currently when you look at what he made at Michigan he drew in 3.8 million dollars with incentives Danny gets paid 1.8 and change plus the potential of a buyout close to 10 million dollars I'm still trying to figure out where Jeff Goodman got the 18 million dollar figure he pointed out at about this time last year he said it's gonna cost 18 million for wake to buy out Danny I still don't know how that works Wake Forest doesn't have to reveal what the buyout number is or even anything regarding Danny's contract because they're a private school but even if you count every cent every dollar on what he's owed over the next five years his contract going through 2025 1.8 times 5 is 9 million so it's gonna be somewhere between 9 and 10 million dollars if every cent count so I think Wake Forest they're gonna get that done and I think there's gonna be a new head coach but John Belod is not a good fit because he's just too expensive also he's accustomed to big public institutions with infinite resources West Virginia basketball and Michigan that's where he's been the last 20 years Wake Forest is kind of the opposite of that it's about making the most of little doing more with less than it is we got the resources that's gonna blow NC State Duke in North Carolina away oh and that's the other thing you got three teams in your state two of which that are public institutions with lower academic standards that can welcome in better talent in your backyard so you really don't even have quite a recruiting base to go up against on top of that two of those schools have Hall of Fame coaches too and Roy Williams and Mike Krzyzewski you got a recruit against so Wake presents a different set of challenges it's small it's private but that doesn't mean the problems can't be solved Dave Clausen's figured it out Olympic coaches have figured it out Dave Odom who was a guest on today's show figured it out Skip Prosser did so I think John Beeline being at West Virginia big public institution and being at Michigan kind of eliminates him as a fit for this place lastly he's 67 now I'm not being a just here remember Mac Brown was around the same age as well and it was a good fit at North Carolina because that's a place that has a ton of resources public school resources people behind it people excited and we saw what that did last year it was a perfect fit he was familiar with that place he understood what makes North Carolina tick the opportunity that you have playing at North Carolina he had won there before he's a Hall of Fame coach North Carolina could afford him this is different Wake Forest is gonna be a full rebuild unlike North Carolina with Mac Brown by the time Beeline could turn around Wake he's probably gonna be 70 years old so understanding Danny Manning is still in place regarding his status I would say it is likely Wake Forest is going to move on that's not based on anything in that building other than looking around the Joel Coliseum and see in a place that was once one of the toughest places to play in basketball being often two-thirds empty that and the standard that Wake Forest should hold itself to and John Curry understanding that about as well as anybody leads me to say there's gonna be a change there if that happens I'm gonna throw out two names right now two names that I think are picture-perfect fits for Wake basketball and ones here in the triad West Miller got ties to Wake Forest in addition to playing at North Carolina he's energetic he could breathe life into the program he's somebody who has head coaching experience and built himself up at a lesser mid-major school and I say that with all due respect to UNC Greensboro it's just not the same as the ACC and everybody knows that move makes sense for Wes it makes sense for Wake Forest it is the inverse of Danny Manning you got a young guy energetic not a household name as a player even though he did play for the Tar Heels that would make sense but the name I like the most is this one Russell Turner 49 years old UC Irvine he was once on Dave Odom staff as an assistant in the 90s and he spent six or seven years coaching in the NBA with the Golden State Warriors very successful program at UC Irvine understands Wake Forest still a younger guy NBA experience too those are two names I'm gonna throw out there we'll talk with David Glenn about NC State's chances of making the NCAA tournament after losing to Boston College at Chestnut Hill last night but I've been pushing this off for quite a while my car has Christmas decorations on it my office has Christmas decorations all in it and I don't quite know how to feel about this if you remember back during the holiday season I said I hate Christmas decorations on cars we all share the road please don't make me look at your car with a Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer reindeer nose on the front of it deer antlers the whole nine Aaron recreated the Trey Jones shot in less than 15 minutes which was our bed so I'm a man of my word I wasn't in the parking lot when it happened but when I saw my car I was mortified Robert how do you care to describe what my car looks like at this moment and just so everybody out there can know let me paint a picture of what Josh looks like he was looking out the window like an old man whose family doesn't come to visit him anymore he was so sad looking down in his car I attacked the back of it very quickly with some magnetic reflector Christmas lights it looked like the lights that are on a Christmas tree what do you mean reflecting lights so when somebody is behind you at night while you're driving home say even tonight they will see the light from their car reflect off of the Christmas lights on the back and the side Oh even the hood we put some range did all of this cost that was handled by Jenny I'm not into the budgets that's this looked very expensive it was extravagant to say the least so we got the antler horns on your back windows so it looks like you're Rudolph you have a red nose on the front our antlers horns horns yeah antlers horns synonymous one of the one I didn't know and we also have elf legs sticking out the back of your trunk so you look like you are some kind of murderer of some sort am I gonna get pulled over with this no well you keep saying that why would you get pulled over it's pretty suspicious having a car with reflective Christmas lights on it and elf what crime are you suspicious of oh this guy's hanging down the back it's just a sketchy thing this guy I'm gonna stand out if anything I'm gonna stand out yeah right so I I like to float it eight miles an hour over the speed limit see that's dangerous even well the rules I have people say that no man if you're not going faster than 15 you're good there are some people say more than 10 so I float eight am I good at eight while having Christmas lights on the car with elf legs hanging out and also deer antlers in February I think the only way you get pulled over is if there's a cop behind you and one of your antlers flies back and smacks the hood of his car that's the only way or if there's a missing person's report or an elf oh yeah then you're definitely getting pulled over I just hope people aren't honking at me because I'm gonna forget that what I wanted was a honk if you love Christmas sign but we did not get that so is it just gonna be honk if you love the drive it's just honk just keep honking so if you see an idiot with reflective Christmas lights on his car antlers and a Rudolph the red nose reindeer nose on his car in the triad also driving to him from games over the next two weeks it's gonna grow it's me it's gonna grow on you it's not gonna be hard to figure out who's driving that car by the end of week one you are gonna be so in love with so embarrassed you're gonna be a Christmas year-round guy this does sound like a really bad TLC Christmas movie this guy was a Scrooge who hated the holiday spirit but then he got Christmas lights implanted onto his car and a Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer nose and antlers ah this guy's now got the holiday spirit can I be the magical black person in said movie oh you had to break this segment down do you have a favorite magical black person in movies mines bagger Vance John call oh mines I guess it's uh is that Sinbad movie real you know they say that like mandala effect where Sinbad is a genie is that real or is it Shaq that's my evil I'll pick either one is my magical black now like I mean what was bagger Vance's like superpower like he's just here's this guy who knows everything and he just so happens to be black Will Smith because he's been that guy in so many movies he was just an Aladdin last year albeit he was blue he was a magical blue person Oh Adam Sandler's putting coach and Billy or no what is his name he's got the fake hands oh you're talking about happy Gilmore it's Chubb's yeah Chubb's Peter he's also my magical black how much damage did NC State's lost the chest in Chestnut Hill due to the packs NCAA tournament hopes we'll discuss with our early afternoon host David Glenn next yeah I want you to be calm don't get too excited but this is the drive he likes to kiss and be warned this is extremely graphic so if you have small children in the room don't let them disturb you back to the drive with Josh Graham once upon a time I used to run one of those recruiting sites for East Carolina so I had to talk to high school recruits and we had to do those star system evaluations is this kid a three star a four star or a five star and I feel like that is starting to become an outdated way of looking at things and I understand that sites like pack pride inside Carolina demon deacon digest they're bigger than ever but I feel like for this one time is that's something that we generally don't really cover on this show I feel like I can go back to my roots and having a similar evaluation with our next guest David Glenn our early afternoon host because he is on his way right now on a recruiting visit with his daughter Avery going to South Carolina as they I'll call it an official visit they're heading tomorrow to try and see if that's the choice for Avery so DG what's the prospect breakdown for Avery Glenn who's getting set to make her official a visit with the Gamecocks well good to be with you as always Josh it was great to see you over the weekend Avery is in the car next to me right now I think she has signed all of her privacy disclosure papers so we can share all this personal information she does love several in-state schools including at State and ECU and UNC but she likes several SEC schools including South Carolina as you said we're almost there Georgia and Florida she also applied to Florida State and got in there so there's a lot of moving parts but she is an in-demand young student and she'll probably even play some club soccer wherever she goes she's a singer on top of it so there's a lot there to want as I have learned over these 17 years as their dad as a father are you concerned the state of North Carolina schools can't keep the fence up from the SEC teams trying to come in and poach our talent you know it's funny every year on National Signing Day in college football it feels like that starts covering the stuff in the 80s I was always mourning you know why can't more of our in-state football teams keep those players for whatever reason the top basketball players do seem to stay in state since Avery is not going to be a varsity athlete she is going to be more students than athletes I am not as concerned by building that about building defense around North Carolina so whatever is best for her I will be okay with and I could be ECU it could be app state I could but it could be somewhere out of state we'll see follow him on Twitter at David Glenn show listen to him noon to three Darren Vaught will be pinch hitting for DG tomorrow afternoon how much does last night's loss in Chestnut Hill change NC State's outlook moving forward for you only a little bit as strange as that sounds right I mean the best part of the Wolfpack's resume as strange as this sounds the last I looked at the quad one category there are only two ACC teams that have winning records in quad one and everybody would probably guess Duke and that's correct the Blue Devils are five and one in games that the NCAA selection committee describes as the most challenging which is depending on whether you're home or away or neutral site they have a formula for that well Duke's five and one and guess what NC State's four and two and if the Wolfpack beats either Florida State or Duke this week they would add another quad one win with both of them visiting PNC arena so it doesn't help that you lose at Boston College if you end up squarely on the bubble some of these you know heck even the UNC loss at home can haunt you a little bit with the Tar Heels in dead last place in the ACC right now but I do think that big wins over great opponents can even outweigh some of your ugly losses so it was a small step back but I don't think the Wolfpack is dead yet if a week from now you and I are talking and the Wolfpack didn't even didn't either beat Duke or Florida State this week well yes then we can start talking about the NIT and and really the bubble bursting in terms of the big bracket of the NCAA tournament we were hanging out at a Hurricanes game last night and this weekend the big news really across the state of North Carolina was that the Hurricanes are finally getting the outdoor hockey game the stadium series game that will take place in Carter Finley Stadium February 20th of 2021 and when when I look at this state as a hockey market DG growing up in this state North Carolina it's passed every test along the way competitiveness to Stanley Cups to Stanley Cup appearances one win I should say two additional Eastern Conference final appearances they hosted the NHL draft as I mentioned a couple Stanley Cups the all-star game in 2011 now the stadium series game they're getting the support and longevity Mike Sondheim of the Carolina Hurricanes PR department tweeted this out today last night's game that we were at is the tenth sellout the Hurricanes have had this year that is the most sellouts in a season since the 2008-2009 year and they had ten that year there's still a month and a half left to go in the regular season so the Hurricanes could still continue that momentum moving forward how significant of a milestone is this most recent headline for the canes and this state as a hockey market it's a big deal you know you just listed a lot of great things there and I would start the list with winning big as everyone let's get DG on a better connection willing makes you sustain winning makes you sustainable especially in what we call the non-traditional hockey market but the other stuff matters too you know the world descended upon Raleigh for the draft and for the all-star game and it won't quite be the hockey world for the stadium series next year but the partnership between NC State and the Carolina Hurricanes has been a strong one obviously Wolfpack men's basketball shares BNC with the canes you just kind of do a little magic turning a hockey rink into a basketball court right across that parking lot that you and I walked across last night is Carter-Finley Stadium and to this point in the history of not just the stadium series but what we call all the outdoor games the winter classic and all the rest there has never been an outdoor hockey game sponsored by the NHL in a southeastern United States market they're almost all in the colder markets occasionally way out west but this is it this is a first and Tom Dundon worked his tail off with his staff to make this happen we don't know the opponent yet but just as those other things were important landmarks because it's a reminder that we don't always have to just raise our hands and say hey don't forget us don't forget about us over here the little hurricanes down here in Raleigh just because we're a smaller market and not traditional hockey market one by one the winning again first but also those other drafts all-star game and now stadium series this has been in places like you know Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia it's been in places like in Chicago the one of their big venues maybe two of their big venues come to think of it so it's neat for state it's even better for the canes and I think it's great for hockey fans all across the market that as you said is going really really strong right now after some ups and downs over these last two decades floss last thing for you DG I'm just going to pose the poll question that we have to you on Twitter at sports up try it if you want to vote on this you're a season ticket holder with the canes on top of that you're somebody who has covered the ACC for more than 30 years hypothetically if Duke North Carolina played each other the same day as this hurricane stadium series game what would gain priority in your mind oh man you know my favorite law school test answer was it depends I used to start many of my blue book style essay answers okay it depends for McDonald's all Americans for North Carolina next year they're back and Duke has the number one recruiting class it might have some guys from this year's team back as well so they're both ranked in the top 25 harder that makes it harder you know I think because I have never been to an outdoor hockey game and I have crossed almost everything else off my sports bucket list and I've been to more than 50 5-0 Duke Carolina games dating to the late 1980s I think I would do the stadium series it would hurt if both teams are good a lot more than it would have hurt say this year when I said a member of my staff to Chapel Hill how did that go only to learn it was a thriller but yeah I'm a lifelong hockey guy and I'm spoiled when it comes to Duke Carolina because I've seen so many and covered so many but yeah that we might not get another stadium series game in my lifetime so I know I'll be able to get the two or three Duke Carolina games pretty much any year I hope you and Avery enjoy Columbia I hope I wasn't the worst houseguest you ever had this weekend God no man you were great Maria sends her regards so does Oliver of course Park always good to see you my friend you got it that's David Glenn he's on Twitter at David Glenn show