Engaging God’s Design in the Local Church

Engaging God's Design in the Local Church. That is a topic we'll discuss today right here on the Christian Worldview radio program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.

I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported radio ministry. Our website is thechristianworldview.org, and the rest of our contact information will be given throughout today's program. The church, the body of true believers in Jesus Christ from every tribe and tongue, is called the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. That's from 1 Timothy 3 verse 15. God began the church 50 days after the Passover weekend on which Jesus was crucified by sending His Holy Spirit to indwell and empower believers to do God's will. Ever since, despite relentless attempts to destroy or corrupt it, the church has unstoppably marched on as a witness to the saving and sanctifying power of God through His Son, His Spirit, and His Word. There is no category in Scripture for a Christian to not be part of a local church. The example of first-century believers was that their lives were centered around the church as they gathered each week to worship God, fellowship with one another, pray, remember the Lord's death and resurrection, and hear the preaching of God's Word.

In short, the church is a top priority for God and needs to be for believers as well. This week, Pastor Ace Davis of Faith Bible Church in Minnesota will join us to discuss various aspects of the church in light of the session he will be teaching in June at the Overcomer Course for Young Adults titled Engaging God's Design in the Local Church. Later in the program, Jerry Newcomb, executive director of Providence Forum, will join us for part two of our conversation on the faith and the character of our first president, George Washington. Jerry is the producer of a one-hour documentary on George Washington that you can order in our store.

We'll tell you how you can get that today. But first, let's get to Pastor Ace Davis on engaging God's design in the local church. Ace, tell us first how you came to saving faith in Christ and what your life is like now. Giving my testimony is a little different, I think, than most testimonies because my testimony actually begins in the womb. I actually was a scheduled appointment to be aborted that my mom never showed up to.

So I can see God's grace in my life in my life from the very beginning. My mom today, she's a strong believer, loves the Lord, regrets that decision that she had made back then to even schedule that appointment. Even asking her about that, she will tell you she doesn't know why she didn't go to it other than it was God's grace on my life. I was raised then in Southern California by my mom and father who was an abusive man. My parents were eventually divorced by the time I was 11 years old. And so then my mom raised myself and three sisters.

She would take us to church. We were also involved in a Christian day school as well that my grandparents helped to pay for. My grandparents were believers.

They prayed for us all the time, just very strong believers. I was going to church, going to Christian day school, had that influence in my life. My father played football, played in the NFL. And so he was a big football guy. And so that was a big influence in my life as well.

And so it became a passion of mine, something that I love to do. And eventually I went on and played football at the University of Idaho. After three years of playing football there, I was injured, injured my throwing arm. And I was a quarterback, so I couldn't play football anymore. The coach took my scholarship away from me, which meant that football was done.

It was over. And that was really a big moment in my life. I was crushed because football was my idol.

It was my life. At this time, I wasn't living for the Lord. I wasn't saved. Even though I grew up in the church and going to youth group and a Christian school and all of that, I wasn't saved. And so I was living the party life with the football team and all of that.

But there was always that influence in my life. I knew I needed to get to church. After football was done, I met my wife, Sarah. At the time we began dating, and I had asked her one day if she wanted to go to church with me. I still remember we were driving in the car and I asked her this question.

I thought she was going to tell me to hit the brakes and I'm out of here. But she didn't. She said, sure, yeah, I'd love to go to church with you. She didn't grow up going to church.

She grew up in an unbelieving family. I picked her up one Sunday and we began attending a church where the gospel was preached. The pastor was faithful to talk about sin and to preach repentance and faith in Christ alone for the forgiveness of your sins. And so it was there in that church that the Lord saved me after hearing the gospel. The Lord also saved Sarah at that time as well. And so we were then baptized together. And so it was just a joyful time of seeing the Lord's hand in my life. Wow, what a testimony to God's grace. Thank you for sharing that with us. Ace Davis is our guest today here on the Christian worldview, the pastor of Faith Bible Church in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.

He is also going to be one of the teachers at the upcoming Overcomer Course for Young Adults in June. And the two sessions you will be teaching are Session 6, Embracing God's Design for Sex, Singleness, and Marriage, and Session 7, which we're going to discuss in part today, Engaging God's Design in the Local Church. Just a general question first here about the church. Why do you think being engaged in a local church has become has become almost optional for many Americans?

Or even if they're Christians, something that you can just watch church from home. And it's not the same kind of high priority of life that it used to be in this country. I think one of the things that we see in our culture, our society today with the development of technology, is the sense of being very individualistic.

We've become really a society that's about self. And so a lot of that then transfers over into many areas of our life, which one of those sadly is the church, where we have really lost our understanding of ecclesiology and what the Bible says about being a Christian and being involved in the local church. The letters that Paul wrote, he wrote to churches.

He didn't write them to individuals. There were a few individuals, Timothy and Titus, but those guys were local pastors of a church. And so he's writing to the local church so that the church understands what it is that God has called them to be as a congregation, as a community, as a people of God who have been called to worship him and to glorify him in their lives. Hebrews 10 25 says, let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together as is the habit of some. And sadly, we see today where it has become a habit because of technology, where people are able to forsake the assembling with one another.

And so really become individualized. We see now a lot of churches that they call it church online, which is not the church. In fact, the very word church, ecclesia, means the assembly or the congregation. And so when you're watching something online through technology, sitting on your couch, you are not with the congregation, but the advancements of technology today has allowed for churches to go in that direction and then really encourage Christians, sadly, in the evangelical church to do that. Ace, the purpose of the Overcomer course for young adults is to ground them in foundational issues of the faith and life. But ultimately, what the course is meant to do is to ground them in those things, but then to really urge them to be engaged in a sound local church. And there's a purpose for that because the church is the lifeblood, as you were just describing, for the Christian. So what is the purpose of the church and why is it the lifeblood for the Christian?

The ultimate purpose of the church is to glorify God. And then the means through which God has called us to worship Him is not individualistic worship that's separate from the body of Christ, but really being engaged in the local church, in the body of Christ. We see this early on in the early church in Acts chapter 2 and verse 42, where it says that they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship to the breaking of bread and to prayer. The local church is where these things take place, where we see the teaching of scripture happen from the pastors, the elders of the church. There's fellowship that happens as the body of believers comes together as brothers and sisters in Christ.

We see the breaking of bread, which is communion, where we are remembering the Lord's death until He comes. And then we're devoted to prayer and praying for one another and the needs within the body of Christ. And so all of that happens within the context of the local church. And so really the local church, that's why it needs to be so important. It needs to be that vital aspect of our life where we are devoting ourselves to it, because that's where all of that takes place. Jesus said in John 17, 17, sanctify them in the truth.

Your word is truth. We are sanctified as we come together and we sit under the preaching and teaching of God's word. And so as we think about the Overcomer Course and these young adults with the desire to get them involved in the local church and continue to encourage them towards the local church, that's the desire that they would be sanctified and grow in the knowledge of the truth, because that's where the truth is preached. That's where it's taught. And that's where then edification happens as we're devoted to the local church. That's exactly right, because you can come to the Overcomer Course for two days and it's a lot of substance and teaching. Over those two days, there's great fellowship there between the young adults as well.

So it's a great couple days, but it's just a couple days. The church is designed for believers to be meeting together week after week and hearing just the four things you just mentioned—the preaching of the word, prayer, remembering the Lord's death and resurrection, and fellowship. And that's really what God has designed to have the believer grow in sanctification as the local church.

So thank you for answering that. Now in your message last year, because you did session seven last year on engaging God's design in the local church, you're going to do an additional session this year, as I mentioned earlier on sex, singleness, and marriage. But you mentioned five distinctives of a healthy local church.

And this is good for evaluating a prospective church that someone listening might be thinking about going to, or maybe evaluating their own church that they're currently a member of. These five distinctives of a healthy local church are number one, you said, a high view of God. Number two, a sufficient view of Scripture.

That Scripture is sufficient. Number three, a proper view of man. Number four, an accurate view of the church, what it is. And number five, a strong view of church leadership. Now we're not going to be able to get to all of those today.

That's what the course is about. But let's just touch on two of them. The first one is a high view of God. What is a high view of God? And what does a high view of God look like positively in a church or negatively in a church? We submit our lives, everything that we do to Him, we come to gather together to worship Him, to bring glory and praise and honor to His name. And so if we have a high view of Him, we will then structure everything within the context of the church according to what He has commanded us to do in His Word so that He will then be glorified.

He tells us in His Word how He wants us to worship Him. And so when we have a high view of Him, we come to church seeking to do just that, to honor and to glorify and to worship Him, for that's the purpose in which we gather together as a local church. Sadly, there are churches that don't have a high view of God. And so then they do everything in the church to please man instead of God. And so you see then how the church is structured is not to come in and to worship and to glorify God, to keep everything focused and centered upon Him, but it gets turned around upon man and how everything becomes focused upon how to please man.

What are man's feelings? How do they feel when they leave the church? And then the programs and everything that is done becomes focused on how we can please man rather than glorify and please God. Ace Davis is our guest, the pastor of Faith Bible Church in White Bear Lake, Minnesota, also one of the teachers at the upcoming Overcomer Course for Young Adults June 20th and 21st at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota. If you have a young adult in your life or maybe in your church or maybe the youth group leader at your church, we just encourage you to tell them about the Overcomer Course and they can find out about it by going to our website thechristianreleview.org. Ace, I'm going to play some audio, just a short audio clip from your message last year on the local church.

Now if listeners hear a little shh in the background, that's not bad audio. It was just an amazing moment actually at the course because it was downpouring rain, like just incredible amounts of rain coming down onto the metal roof of the barn where the course takes place at the farm. So it was a very memorable experience, but I'm going to play a short sound clip of your message on the local church, talking about this second distinctive of a healthy local church and having a sufficient view of scripture.

Here's you from last year at the Overcomer Course. Have you ever heard somebody say, well I've experienced, well in my experience I think, and therefore they build a whole theology off of experience rather than off of the word of God. Everything that we believe in life needs to come from the word of God, not our own experience. A healthy church has a high view of scripture that centers all it does on God's word and seeks to honor God through obedience to His word. Again, the rain was coming down and what a moment that was at the course last year, but the point of that soundbite was that a healthy church preaches about the authority of God's word, not basing our lives on our personal experience. Explain more fully what it means for a church to have a sufficient view of scripture, and then also what happens if it doesn't have a sufficient view of scripture. A church with a sufficient view of scripture will submit everything in the church to the scrutiny of the scriptures. We will discern and we will look at everything through the lens of God's word and the lens of God's word and what God's word has to say about everything that is done within the context of the church. And it's vital for us, it's so important for us, because scripture is not only the foundation on which the church is built, but it also contains the message that the church must proclaim. We see in Ephesians chapter 2, 19 and 20, where Paul says there, So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone. And what Paul is saying there is that the foundation of the apostles and prophets are the very words that they taught, which is what we have in the scriptures that we hold in our hand. And so that being the foundation of the church in which the church has been built, when God's word is preached, and God is doing his work in his church through his word, then the people of God are being built up as they are to do within the context of the local church. But when a church doesn't have a sufficient view of scripture, then it becomes a place where people pursue comfort, rather than obedience to the word of God.

And really their authority then becomes their own, as I was saying there, their own experiences, their own thinking, their own opinions. And that's not how we live the Christian life. We're to take everything back to the authority, which is the word of God. You touched on a lot more in that message that we not going to be have time to get into today and how to get involved in your local church and six ways to fulfill your responsibility in the local church and understanding church membership and a whole lot more and the other distinctive that we didn't get to. Ace Davis with us today here on The Christian Worldview, pastor of Faith Bible Church here in the Twin Cities, also one of the teachers at the upcoming Overcomer Course for Young Adults.

The course takes place June 20th and 21st at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota. And the goal is not just grounding in the biblical worldview and fellowship with one another, but urging young adults to be engaged in a sound local church, which is our topic today. Short break and then more with Pastor Ace Davis.

I'm David Wheaton. You're listening to The Christian Worldview radio program. Between sessions, enjoy fellowship, food, and fun at the farm, including activities and games, cookouts, an espresso bar, trail walks, bonfires, and more. Tell the young adults in your life about the Overcomer Course Friday, Saturday, June 20th and 21st at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota.

To foster personal connection, the course is limited to 40 men and women age 18 to 28. Full details and registration at thechristianworldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview Journal is our monthly 12-page, full-color print publication designed to sharpen your biblical worldview on current events and issues of the faith. The journal is anchored each month with three columns, including one by Christian geopolitical and prophecy analyst Soren Kern.

You will also find details on radio programs, upcoming events, resources for adults and children, ministry updates, and more. The journal is mailed to all Christian worldview partners who support the ministry at $10 or more per month or $120 or more per year. Plus, when you become a Christian worldview partner, you'll be sent a complimentary copy of my hardcover book, My Boy Ben, a story of love, loss, and grace. To become a Christian worldview partner and receive the journal, go to thechristianworldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Welcome back to The Christian Worldview.

I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit thechristianworldview.org where you can sign up for our weekly email, The Christian Worldview Journal monthly print publication, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Our topic today is engaging God's design in the local church, and Ace Davis, pastor of Faith Bible Church in White Bear Lake, Minnesota, is our guest. Ace, I read a post on X or Twitter recently from the account of J.C. Ryle, the great theologian in the past. He didn't write this, but this was posted on his account.

It was made by someone named Ron Smith. It said, there was a time when people went to church, heard the truth, and wept over their sins. Today, people go to church, hear a motivational speech, and ignore their sins. I thought that was pretty accurate as to what is going on at many churches, even evangelical churches today.

You know, many evangelical churches craft their church, the methodology, their ecclesiology, the word you mentioned, around quote-unquote best practices. In other words, what are the churches around the country that are really popular, really well populated by people, have maybe multi-campus sites and so forth? What are the best practices of those churches? What kind of preaching are they doing? What kind of music are they playing?

What are the programs? Because after all, they're quote-unquote successful, because lots of people are coming. But Ace, why are best practices the wrong starting point for a church, and what really is the right starting point for a sound, healthy local church? Well, yeah, what you just described there, that's just a pragmatic approach to the church that's often used, sadly, to draw in the masses. And it's a very popular model in the seeker-sensitive movement, where the focus is on what will attract the people, and what's going to make them feel good, rather than on what God tells us to do in his word.

The right starting point is to look at the Word of God and see what he says about how he wants the church to function. You know, Paul tells Timothy in 1 Timothy 4-13, he says, until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. And then 2 Timothy 4-2, he says, preach the Word, be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience and instruction. And so we can see where Paul is urging Timothy there that the starting point must be the Word of God. Preach the Word, preach the Word, preach the Word in season and out of season. What does that mean?

Means always, all the time, you're either in season or you're out of season. Preach the Word so that the people will then be edified and trained up for the work of ministry, which is what Paul talks about in Ephesians chapter 4, which is the purpose of the pastors of the local church, pastors and elders, is to equip the people for the work of ministry. But when you have a wrong starting point, now the people are not being equipped for the work of ministry.

They're just there for a feel-good, emotional message that's going to send them out really the same way that they came in without being equipped and edified to do the work of ministry that God calls us to do. Ace, I just want to play one more short audio clip from your message last year on the church at the Overcomer Course, and this is about a healthy church and the call for churches to preach the gospel. God says, no, no, no, no. You're not good. No one is good.

No, not one. And therefore your good works, what you think are good, they cannot save you. Man cannot save himself. And so we are all in need of salvation from our sin. Every one of us is in need of salvation from our sin.

What is the solution? Christ is the only solution for man's need of salvation, and the church must understand this, and the church must believe this, and the church must teach this. That's what a healthy church does. Okay, and again, the shh in the background is not bad audio.

That was the rain pouring down on the metal roof of the North Barn at the farm where the sessions are held. You talked about the importance there of a church's preaching the gospel, and I was thinking about that sound clip you just said in light of what is taking place in our country right now, just socially, culturally, politically. There's a different political climate with Donald Trump in the White House, and that's not overtly adversarial to Christians, as it has been at times in the last several administrations. And so this is a different challenge right now for the church, because there's not the kind of felt marginalization, I guess you could say, going on toward churches and Christians as there has been in the past. So Ace, what would be your exhortation for pastors in the church right now when the political winds are more favorable toward the church and to Christians, even though it's not an overtly Christian government or anything, but the policy positions they take are more aligned with a biblical worldview for government? We need to remember that we need to keep the main things the main things, and we need to remember that we need to be preaching the gospel so that the lost will hear the gospel and repent of their sin and come to saving faith, those lost that come among us in the church. And so pastors need to be focused upon that. You know, it's times like these as well that we can begin to become lazy, thinking that persecution isn't here, that we're safe, that everything is going to be fine.

But first Peter 5 8 tells us, be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. Satan hasn't given up.

He is still prowling around and he's seeking to devour. And so we must be on the alert because the enemy is not giving up. As I tell our people often, persecution is coming. And so we must ready ourselves now so that when it comes, we're ready to fight the fight and stand for Christ. And so this needs to be a time where we're grateful for the blessings that God has given to us. Obviously we don't desire persecution, but we know that the church is strengthened oftentimes through persecution.

It grows through persecution. And so in these times, we need to ready ourselves for the time when persecution comes, go deeper into God's word, grow in our convictions of God's word, so that when persecution does come, we're ready to face it. There's so much going on in the world today that a Christian needs to be able to process not only just within the church and the faith, doctrinal things and so forth, but just world events. So much of scripture is devoted to eschatology, prophecy, and so forth.

I think it's something like, is it a third? I can't remember what the percentage is, but there's a lot of prophecy in scripture. How much emphasis do you think a pastor or a church should put on helping people within a church understand the issues of our day, and even be thinking about eschatology and prophecy with where God is moving the world? What we've been commanded to do is to preach the whole counsel of God, and so that means not just soteriology, not just theology proper and Christology, but even eschatology is an important aspect of what we need to teach in the church. And it's good to understand what's going on around us in the world, because we can see that what is taking place only affirms what God has said is going to happen. As we look and see what's going on in Israel, even today, that only affirms what God has said is going to happen in his word. As we look to the end times, as we're nearing the end times, and so we need to remind our people of that, that our God is faithful to his promises, that he made a promise to Abraham back in Genesis, and God will fulfill that promise all the way to the very end.

Those are reminders to our people of the promises and the faithfulness of our God as we look at eschatology and world events and things that are going on around us. We need to speak to those because the word of God speaks to those. When we look at different political issues and things that are going on even within our own nation, we need to remember that God's word speaks to those issues, and so we need to preach the full counsel of God and help our people understand what God's word says about that.

People are going to be informed and influenced to have perspectives on all these issues they face, and so I think the church should be the one having the main influence rather than secular culture or quote-unquote progressive Christians who are always trying to make the church compromise its stances on the various issues. So I think there's definitely a place there, and I certainly wasn't implying that should be the primary preaching topic every week is, you know, what's going on with government audits and cutbacks or different issues going on, but I do think there's a place for it so that you get believers who understand the times, who are looking forward to the Lord's return. So thank you for that, Ace. Ace Davis is our guest today, pastor of Faith Bible Church here in Minnesota, also one of the teachers at the upcoming Overcomer Course for Young Adults in June at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota. So for the last month or so, I've been encouraging parents and grandparents to tell the young adults in their life about the Overcomer Course and to come do it and so forth, saying that it can be really a time of grounding them in some foundational issues of the faith and of life, and again, pointing them to being engaged in a sound and healthy local church.

But that's me saying it, Ace. What would you say to encourage a young adult who's listening today, or maybe parents or grandparents, to encourage the young adults in their life to come to the Overcomer Course, having been there for the inaugural one last year? The young adult years are such important years in our lives. I can remember those college days after being saved, how hungry I was for the truth and how vital that time was to grow in my knowledge and understanding of God's Word. And so the Overcomer Course, I know, is designed to help these young adults get grounded and grow in their convictions about the Word of God. You know, we think about the Proverbs and what Solomon was doing there with his son.

He wanted him to be grounded at a young age so that he would know how to practice wisdom as he lived his life. And so with these young adults that come and attend there, I know that that is your heart, David. That's the heart of everyone that teaches there at the Overcomer Course, is for these young adults to be grounded in their convictions about the Word of God so that they will know how to live their life for the glory of God. Young adults, in these years, they're asking, what is God's will for my life? And that question really is answered in this course through biblical teaching and biblical principles. Obviously, we're not going to tell them, this is exactly what job you must do, and this is what person you must marry. Maybe some of them are looking for that, but that's not what we're there to do. But we do answer that question, what is God's will for your life, as we're there to teach them these biblical principles and foundations for their life. Well, we are looking forward to having you come to the course again this year and actually doing a second session this year on gender, sex, singleness, and marriage.

That is a really important topic for anyone, but particularly for young adults as they go from singleness, potentially, to being married and raising families of their own. Ace, thank you for coming on the program today. All of God's best and grace to you and your family in Faith Bible Church.

Thank you so much for having me. We have links to Pastor Ace Davis and Faith Bible Church in White Bear Lake, Minnesota, along with details and registration for the Overcomer Course at our website, thechristianroyalview.org, or just give us a call toll free, 888-646-2233. Next segment, Jerry Newcomb, executive director of Providence Forum, will join us to discuss the faith and character of George Washington, our first president, and how different he was from most leaders today. I'm David Wheaton, and you are listening to the Christian Worldview radio program. The Christian Worldview Journal is our monthly 12-page, full-color print publication designed to sharpen your biblical worldview on current events and issues of the faith. The journal is anchored each month with three columns, including one by Christian geopolitical and prophecy analyst Soren Kern.

You will also find details on radio programs, upcoming events, resources for adults and children, ministry updates, and more. The journal is mailed to all Christian Worldview partners who support the ministry at $10 or more per month, or $120 or more per year. Plus, when you become a Christian Worldview partner, you will be sent a complimentary copy of my hardcover book, My Boy Ben, a Story of Love, Loss, and Grace.

To become a Christian Worldview partner and receive the journal, go to thechristianroyalview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Being an overcomer is God's purpose for each person. John concluded all seven messages to the churches in Revelation the same way, to him who overcomes.

Jesus is the example. He said, in the world you have tribulation, but take courage. I have overcome the world. An overcomer is a true believer who prevails over the tests and trials of life through the supernatural resources God provides. And now you know why the overcomer course is so named. In eight interactive sessions over two days, addressing foundational issues of life and the faith, the course is designed to inspire young adults to be overcomers.

The dates are June 20th and 21st at Stonehouse Farm in Jordan, Minnesota. The course is limited to 40 young adults, so be sure to encourage the young adults in your life and your church to come. To find out more and to register, go to thechristianroyalview.org or call 1-888-646-2233. Welcome back to The Christian Worldview.

I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit thechristianroyalview.org where you can sign up for our weekly email, The Christian Worldview Journal monthly print publication, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. In this final segment, Jerry Newcomb, executive director of Providence Forum, joins us to discuss the faith of George Washington, our first president, which I think you will find quite a contrast in light of most politicians today. Jerry, you say the founders of America would be appalled that this is how far we have fallen from their vision of limited government based on God-given rights and the consent of the governed.

You say, I never consented nor would I consent to such immoral goals as what's being spent around the world. In his farewell address, George Washington, the first president, warned the new nation to be careful about the national debt, quoting, as a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible. In other words, don't go into huge debt like our country is today. You went on to quote Thomas Jefferson, one of our early founders as well. He said, to preserve our independence, we should not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat, in our drink, in our necessities, and in our comforts, and in our labor, and in our amusements. Jerry, that's exactly what's taking place today. There is just an unending amount of taxation by government.

I mean, what a deal. This funding scheme. Government has the power to tax, and this is what they do. They take people's hard-earned money, and then they spend it where they want.

There's been very little accountability and exposure to this until now. How do you explain, Jerry, just the huge difference in worldview from U.S. leaders in the past, like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who just said what I just quoted them from your article to say, and the worldview of those in government over the last 50 years who have, under their watch, have allowed these incomprehensible and unsustainable debts to just accrue? Well, I do think that the founders, for the most part, were basically trained in a biblical worldview. They knew the Bible. In fact, one scholar that I interviewed years ago said that all the founding fathers, even the two or three here or there that might not have been orthodox in their views of Christianity, all of them knew the Bible, and they knew it down to their fingertips. They were weaned on the Bible. All the colleges were biblically oriented. Harvard was founded to create and train ministers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Same with Yale and Princeton and Dartmouth, and they had a biblical worldview.

So I appreciate what you're always focusing on, David, is we need to get back to a biblical worldview. Now, in contrast, many of today's elites and intelligentsia are essentially having a Marxist worldview. I'm sure you remember years ago that Saul Alinsky was very influential to Hillary Clinton and then later Barack Obama, at least intellectually and so forth. Saul Alinsky was a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago, and he wrote a book in 1971, a year before he died, called Rules for Radicals, and he actually dedicated that book to Satan, to Lucifer, somebody who earned his own kingdom by rebelling against God. I think he called him a myth. There's a very different worldview, and in effect, the difference boils down to those who believe that there is a God, he has revealed himself, he will hold us accountable.

That is a huge, huge point. The founders said, for example, in the Declaration of Independence, that we are appealing our intentions to the supreme judge of the world. Now, one of my mentors, Dr. Peter Lowback, he and I wrote this big book about the faith of George Washington, George Washington's sacred fire. Dr. Lowback said, when the the founders said in the declaration that they appealed to the supreme judge of the world, they knew the Bible, and they knew to whom judgment has been submitted. Jesus. The idea, though, that you'll be accountable is very different than the idea that you've been accountable, than the idea that you basically try to get away with whatever you can.

The only real sin in life, if there is such a thing as sin, is getting caught. Thankfully, the men who founded America, the founding fathers, for the most part, were men of Christian character, and that includes George Washington, who was a model. In fact, when George Washington was successful in the war, before we reverted over to, you know, created the Constitution, so there was a a period of instability there for a few years, some of his former soldiers said, hey, why don't you become a king? You know, everything is kind of chaotic, the money isn't worth what it should be, and he said, I didn't fight one king to become a king. He pushed away power, and then after he was successfully the president for two terms, then some thought, you know, maybe he should just keep being the president again, and it's like, no, I'm going to give a model here.

I'm going to go back to my farm and let others rise up for this. Christian servant leadership is a beauty to behold, and I think Washington was a good example of that. And I really learned a lot by watching that documentary. We all think we know about George Washington, but when you start to dig in, as you did in this documentary, part of the Foundation of American Liberty series, it's just really good. It's a 60 minute documentary on George Washington. We'll tell you how you can get that DVD today, and I want to play a couple sound bites actually from that documentary on George Washington. Let's just start out with the very beginning. This gives about just a short overview of what George Washington was known for.

Let's listen to that, and I'll follow up with a question. When we look at George Washington, we're clearly looking at the great icon of our country, the United States, a man who has given his name to our capital city. He was called the father of his country in his own lifetime. He has been called by historians, the indispensable man. They look to Washington as a general, as a government thinker, as the first president. He is extraordinarily important for America.

So whatever his faith was then becomes important for us. George Washington really was that man we see kneeling beside his horse, praying, and he exercised a lot of humility, a lot of grace. But he had such a heart for God that his service was so profound throughout the revolution. What was the overarching biggest impression as you did this documentary on George Washington?

What most impressed you about him? In doing all this research, unfortunately, many of the elites, the ruling class of professors and so forth in different colleges have said, even professing Christian ones have said, well, you know, George Washington's view of God was more of a deistic view. He didn't really believe in the God of the Bible and so forth. And Dr. Lilbeck said in all the research he's done, that's contrary to what he really sees.

And it's really true. If you just look at Washington's life and his actions, his writings, you see that the Bible played a very important role in his life. And he was constantly saying how he was reliant upon Almighty God.

I like to put it this way. If George Washington was not a genuine Christian, then he deserves an Oscar for pretending to be. And he was a man well known for his sterling character.

So, you know, that would lack integrity if he was pretending to be this religious guy when he really wasn't in reality. I think what's happened is our history has been rewritten and God has been erased. And George Washington has been a casualty of that. And so both in this film and then also before that in the book, George Washington's Sacred Fire, we're trying to rectify the misinformation we have.

But I like what Dr. Lilbeck noted there in the documentary portion you played. Since George Washington was such an important pivotal character to our life as a nation, well, what is his faith? And is that instructive to us?

And the answer is yes. And yes, he was a Christian. And he also saw that people of different views would be welcome here, you know, provided they follow the overall golden rule, if you will, of Jesus Christ.

Now, he didn't expressly say it that way. And George Washington was an excellent person helping to articulate this kind of vision that here in America, you will be free and you will not be attacked for your religious heresy for all practical purposes. One of the interesting parts of the documentary on George Washington was what his life was like when he was younger.

I believe his dad died when he was about 11 years old. And that was a difficult time of his life. But shortly thereafter, sort of like the great Christian Jonathan Edwards, the Puritan. Jonathan Edwards had the resolutions that he resolved to live by. But George Washington had the same sort of thing with a book that was popular at the time. I think it came from France.

I'm going to play that soundbite and then follow up. One of the books that most impacted the young George Washington was called Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior, a collection of 110 maxims written in late 16th century France. They were largely based on biblical principles and were very popular in George's day. George transcribed these precepts in his own hand by the age of 16.

If George Washington came off as a cold or aloof or dignified adult, in some ways, it was the impact of the rules of civility. 22. Show not yourself glad at the misfortune of another, though he were your enemy.

56. Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation. For it is better to be alone than in bad company. When you speak of God or His attributes, let it be seriously and with reverence, honor, and obey your natural parents, although they be poor. It was interesting that George Washington, when he was just a teenager, wrote them down to aspire to keeping these things as part of his life, as Jonathan Edwards has done with his resolutions. Why isn't this a common thing today? Is this a parental mistake that we're not impressing these sorts of biblical principles on our young men today as how much this influenced George Washington back in his day?

It really is difficult now. We have these wonderful tools with the internet, with the phone, with the social media, and so forth. But they can also be corrupting influences, of course, as you well know. I mean, not everybody is looking at their phone and they're downloading Bible verses.

So, I mean, there are a lot of distractions, but I agree with you. I think it's an excellent practice to strive for, to try and train people to follow these kind of biblical-type maxims. Bad company corrupts good morals. All that's so true.

I mean, how many times do young people go astray because of having bad friends? We're talking about not only the wasteful spending that has taken place in our government, but how George Washington, back in the day, warned against going into this kind of debt and then what kind of man he was, taken from the George Washington documentary. We'll tell you how you can get that in just a minute here on the program. Jerry, let's do one more soundbite from the documentary. A delegation of Delaware Indian chiefs came to see George Washington and asked him how their young men could learn from the ways of the Americans. Washington told them, You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. Later that same year, George Washington quoted to his troops the call of Congress to all Americans to pray and fast and give thanks to God at this critical juncture in the life of the fledgling nation, said Washington. It becomes us humbly to approach the throne of Almighty God with gratitude and praise for the wonders which His goodness has wrought in conducting our forefathers through this Western world and above all that He hath diffused the glorious light of the gospel whereby through the merits of our gracious Redeemer, we may become the heirs of His eternal glory. George Washington.

Watching this documentary and just thinking about the difference between now and then in American history, what message should our current civil leaders be taking from George Washington, our first president? He said we succeeded only because of God's help. He said no people should be more grateful than the people of the United States of America. He said this in his first inaugural address and the reason we should be so grateful is because God helped us become an independent nation. When George Washington used the word providence, which he used about 270 times, that's basically providence is an old-fashioned way of saying God, the God of the Bible, the God who answers prayers, the God who provides for us. The deist concept of God is a God who's removed.

You know, he basically made the universe but then wound it all up and then has abandoned it. The Christian view and including providence is that God provides for us. God hears our prayers. He answers our prayers and that was the view George Washington had and he was very very grateful to God and he said when he wrote a letter to the governors of each of the states, he said that we must as the nation imitate the divine author of our blessed religion and if we don't we can never hope to be a happy nation.

The divine author of our blessed religion is Jesus. Jerry, we thank you for bringing this out in this documentary on George Washington and it's been very helpful and inspiring to watch and something that we as regular people need to see today but also our leaders need to understand where our country came from. So we thank you for all the efforts and time and research it took to do this documentary on George Washington and thank you for coming on the Christian Real View Radio program today. All of God's best and grace to you.

Thank you, I appreciate it so much. You can order the DVD of the George Washington documentary at thechristianrealview.org or just give us a call toll free 888-646-2233. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian Real View and for your support of this non-profit radio ministry. Let's remember Jesus words, upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. Jesus is the rock, the cornerstone that the church is built on.

Not a fallible human like Peter as Roman Catholics assert. So let's engage in God's design for believers in the local church. Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of the Christian Real View is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out what must I do to be saved, go to thechristianrealview.org or call toll free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Real View is a listener supported non-profit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Real View partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianrealview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian Real View.