How the Abortion Movement Has Become More Radical Post-Roe v. Wade

How the abortion movement has become more radical post Roe v. Wade. That is a topic we'll discuss today right here on the Christian Worldview radio program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. In your support of radio ministry, we are able to broadcast on the radio station, website, or app on which you are listening today because of the support of listeners like you. So thank you for your prayer, your encouragement, and support.

You can connect with us by visiting our website, thechristianworldview.org, calling our toll-free number, 1-888-646-2233, or by writing to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Americans like to think of our nation and people as, quote, exceptional, providing an example of goodness, charity, even Christianity to the rest of the world. There is some truth to this. America has been immeasurably blessed in resources and liberties and has spread innovation and freedom across the world. But, if we are honest, this nation has also become perhaps the greatest consumer and exporter of moral wickedness, such as sexual immorality in its many forms, and specifically for our topic today, the murder of preborn children. Consider the 1973 Supreme Court decision called Roe v. Wade that led to abortion, which is the intentional murder of preborn human beings, led to that becoming legal in this country. A mind-numbing 63 million preborn human beings, babies, have been killed since then.

That is nearly 20% of the current population of the United States. No matter how it's rationalized, quote, women's health care, or my body, my choice, or reproductive rights, unquote, the reality is that every day in our country, pregnant women enter hospitals and clinics where abortionists kill or dismember and extract preborn human beings. The Bible says this about the preborn child, for you formed my inward parts. You wove me in my mother's womb.

I will give thanks to you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. That's from Psalm 139, showing that the baby growing in a mother's womb is a human indeed. Now there was great celebration by those who are pro-life or oppose abortion when Roe v. Wade was overturned in the summer of 2022, but what has transpired since then can only be described as the demons getting angry and seeking revenge.

Alas, Satan never relents in fomenting sin and evil in the hearts of humans. With abortion now being a matter of each state to decide, extreme bills and laws are being pushed through state legislatures that remove almost all limits on abortion. Our home state in Minnesota is currently passing one of the most radical abortion bills in the country. Colleen Tronson, executive director of Metro Women's Center in Minnesota, joins us on the Christian worldview to discuss how the abortion landscape is changing, the rise of the abortion pill, and how Christians can get involved to save lives and proclaim the hope of the gospel. I've been following this Minnesota bill called the Protect Reproductive Options Act, or PRO Act, that has been working its way through our state legislature.

And I saw a video on Twitter. It's a short video by a Minnesota state senator named Erin May Quade. She represents a district of suburbs south of the Twin Cities.

And the video is titled Progress Toward Reproductive Freedom, just 60 seconds long about. And she looks young and smartly dressed and has a determination in her voice as if on some great and worthy cause to end injustice. And here's what she had to say.

Hi, everybody. State Senator Erin May Quade here from Senate District 56, Apple Valley, Rosemount, Eagan. And I'm really excited that today we had a hearing on Senate File 70, the Reproductive Freedom Codification Act. This hearing brings us one step closer to full reproductive freedom in the state of Minnesota. Senate File 70 repeals unconstitutional abortion restrictions and removes outdated and archaic laws from our books.

I'm so excited that this work is progressing. And I look forward to seeing us on the other side when reproductive freedom has been restored in the state of Minnesota. Now, in watching the video, it seemed like she could have been talking about just any old law that a state legislature would make and not have to do with the actual murder of preborn human beings. But she said it's time to repeal Minnesota's outdated, archaic, and unconstitutional abortion restrictions as if what has been in place in Minnesota has been all of those things.

I had never heard of her, so I looked into who she was. She's, quote unquote, married to a, quote, wife. And she and her, quote, wife are far left activists, fully for abortion and, of course, fully for homosexuality and transgenderism.

So you reject God in one area and you'll likely be against his will on all the other issues as well. Now, Minnesota is a very leftist state. The governor and our entire legislature and political leadership is almost all on the left.

California and New York and Illinois don't have much on leftism when it comes to Minnesota politically. So I'm going to read just some highlights from an article in The Federalist titled Minnesota Poised to Legalize Infanticide and End Protections for Women and Babies in Radical Abortion Bill. Minnesota Democrats are poised to ignore the at least 69 percent of Americans who say they want significant limits on abortion to pass the state's most radical abortion bill, which would legalize taxpayer-funded, on-demand abortion for all. The Protect Reproductive Options Act, or PRO Act, the first bill Democrats introduced in both the state House and Senate this session, would repeal dozens of the state's protections for women and babies and expand legal immunity for abortions up until the moment of birth and beyond.

And so there are a number of headings in this article that what this bill will do, that Aaron May Quaid considers archaic, outdated, and unconstitutional. Number one, it ends protections for babies born alive. Minnesota law recognizes babies who are born alive following a botched abortion as a, quote, human person under the law, unquote. The Born Alive Infants Protection Act reconfirmed these babies deserve and receive life-saving medical care.

The PRO Act, however, terminates the protections outlined for a baby who, quote, breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles. So this law would end protections for a baby born alive after an abortion. Number two, it lifts protections on taxpayer-funded abortions. So if you're a Minnesotan who is against abortion, well, your tax dollars are now going to be funding abortions, whether you like it or not. Number three, this bill nullifies parental notification. If a minor requests an abortion, Minnesota law requires that parents or guardians be notified before she goes through with it.

This would nullify that. Number four, reverses ban on abortions of unconscious women. So any woman receiving abortions in Minnesota, the law currently states, must be conscious and given a, quote, full explanation of the procedure and effect of the abortion, unquote.

Beforehand, under the PRO Act, neither of those conditions must be met to move forward with an abortion. Number five, it halts reporting if women die from abortions. Minnesota law requires abortionists to report if a woman dies due to an abortion. Under the new legislation, this act, abortionists will not be penalized for refusing to report abortion-related deaths. Number six, what this act will do, it stops reporting abortion statistics altogether. Not only will abortionists no longer be required to report deaths under the PRO Act, but they won't have to disclose any of the legally mandated information about the number of abortions they performed, what methods they used, the gestational ages of the unborn babies who were dismembered, why the woman sought an abortion, or any other key information. Number seven, this law repeals felony charges for sale of the abortion pill and other abortion-inducing devices.

We'll get to that a little later. Number eight, this bill allows the unregulated disposal of baby bodies. The PRO Act will rescind a statute that requires the remains of an aborted or miscarried baby in a medical facility to be properly and carefully handled and disposed of within the state.

This means hospitals and abortion facilities would no longer be required to cremate or bury deceased infants as directed by the Commissioner of Health. Number nine, it ends informed consent for women. According to Minnesota statute, also known as the Women's Right to Know Act, women must be told the particular medical risks associated with the particular abortion procedure, the gestational age of the child, and in the case of late-term abortion, whether painkillers will be given to the unborn child during the abortion. If the PRO Act passes, which it likely will, abortionists do not have to explain any abortion risks to the women. Number ten, this act expands who can give abortions. According to Minnesota statute, only licensed physicians may perform abortions in a designated facility, such as a hospital or abortion facility using rules from the state Commissioner of Health as a guideline. Violations of these statutes, including letting unlicensed abortionists perform the dangerous and fatal procedure, will no longer be considered criminal. Now, I know that was a lot of reading there, but I think it's important to understand just how radical and extreme and pro-death and pro-abortion these legislators are who are pushing this bill as the first thing they do in this state. And if you live outside the state, the point is that since Roe v. Wade was overturned in the summer of 2022, the abortion movement has become even more radical, where there are to be no restrictions on abortion itself or any of the issues surrounding it.

It's a murderous death cult that is completely unashamed of it. To help us understand what is taking place in Minnesota and in other states around the country, Colleen Tronson joins us today. She's the Executive Director of Metro Women's Center here in Minnesota.

This is a pregnancy help center that serves the Lord by offering hope and help to families experiencing pregnancy-related challenges. And Colleen, you heard all that about what is taking place here in Minnesota and apparently in just a few other states around the country, and it's bound to catch on even more. What is your response to it, and how is this abortion movement becoming so much more radical post the overturning of Roe v. Wade in the summer of 2022? The bill that's moving through our legislative process right now is a bill that has no guardrails for protection for women and girls and babies in Minnesota. And it just shows the radical nature of the pro-abortion movement, abortion without apologies. The destigmatizing of abortion is part of their agenda. We see that Minnesota is becoming an oasis for abortion care, as most of the states around us have put bans or restrictions on abortion. We even heard from a Planned Parenthood representative that said that they have had an increase in people coming from different states to do abortions in Minnesota since Roe v. Wade was overturned. The old signs used to say, well, we're not pro-abortion, but now the signs say unapologetically pro-abortion.

The darkness is not hiding anymore. The truth about the desire to terminate life is not hiding anymore. It just really shows that their intent is to make this the first bill that they pass through at the beginning of a legislative session.

They're very intent on this. So it is very radical compared to other states. The terrifying part of it for me is that they remove the protections for minors especially. So no parental notification for minors seeking an abortion. So a 13-year-old girl could go into an abortion clinic and have an abortion without her parents knowing it. Also, the abortion reporting to me is scary because there's no regulation of it in terms of what happens to women in the abortion clinic. As far as the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which is something that they're trying to do away with, in Minnesota there were I think five late-term abortions and none of those infants survived. What I think is happening is they're taking those hard cases like the rape and incest idea or the life of the mother idea or the medical complications or things, and they're making those things seem like those are the reasons why we have to have this unfettered access to abortion. But in actuality in Minnesota, about 97 percent of the abortions that are done in Minnesota are done in the first and second trimester, and they're usually done for reasons not related to saving the life of the mother or a fetal anomaly or a difficult thing like that. They're done mostly for I just don't want to be pregnant right now or I've got a relationship issue or I've got a financial issue or some reason along those lines.

I think we have to be really careful not to buy into the idea that if we're against this, we're against those hard cases. So I want people to remember that those pregnancies where there is a need for medical intervention, those women can still access care. Colleen Tronson with us today on The Christian Real View. She is the executive director of Metro Women's Center here in the Twin Cities of Minnesota.

Metrowomencenter.org is their website. And one thing I've been reading, Colleen, is that since the overturning of Roe v. Wade that the abortion pill has become much more prominent. Tell us about that, what that does, who can get it, and how widespread is the use of that? Colleen Tronson will answer that question right after this break. You are listening to The Christian Real View radio program.

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Order resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Our topic today is how the abortion movement has become more radical post Roe v. Wade. Our guest is Colleen Tronson, executive director of Metro Women's Center in Minnesota. Colleen, the abortion pill has become much more prominent.

Tell us about that, what that does, who can get it, and how widespread is the use of that? Boy, this is another scary development for women and for babies. Of growing concern in Minnesota and around the country is the increase in chemical abortions. Two sets of pills are given to a woman seeking an abortion.

The first pills cut off the oxygen supply to the developing human being in the womb. And the second pill, taken hours later, induces contractions so the woman experiences a painful delivery of her baby at home in her own bathroom. Over 60% of the abortions in Minnesota are done in this way. The terrifying thing about this for me is that because these chemicals are accessible online and through the mail, today the closest abortion clinic to a woman is her mailbox.

It's very, very disturbing. I've actually had two encounters with women who've experienced a chemical abortion. One woman contacted me when she was in the middle of the abortion and said she didn't want to continue it, she'd only taken the first pills. So we connected with her and we tried to get her to a doctor to administer progesterone, which could possibly stop the abortion from happening.

It was too late, the baby passed, but not without it being a horrific experience of her bleeding profusely, having to be taken by ambulance from her home in the presence of her five-year-old child, and she experienced a miscarriage. She was devastated by that and she didn't think it would happen to her like that. She said they didn't tell me that it would be like that. And another woman, a similar situation, came to me after the fact and said they didn't tell me that it was going to hurt so bad. They didn't tell me that I was going to miscarry my baby in the toilet. So these are traumatic experiences that a woman has. Experiencing a miscarriage under any circumstances is difficult. But experiencing it in your own home without proper warning, if you will, that it's going to be as bad as it is, is abusive, I think, to women. It's not kind and it gives them the idea that you can just pop a pill and it'll be just fine.

It sounds like a woman can get those without a doctor. Is that true? And does that count toward the abortion count in any given state? That's a really good question. I think if you look online to the Minnesota Department of Health, there's records of how abortions are performed in Minnesota and we could find that information there. I actually called one of the local abortion clinics just to see how I could get this pill, how I could do this. And I asked what it would cost.

And the lady told me eight hundred and sixty dollars. So you can get those pills. There's something called telemed abortions where you can have an appointment with a doctor over the phone and then the pills can be mailed to you in Minnesota.

I don't know if every state has that rule, but in Minnesota you can do it. There's a new group that emerged in the summer of 2020 called Just the Pill. And it's a medical doctor whose plan is to have a chemical abortion vehicle that will go around to the edges of our state and provide services to ladies from the other states around us that have banned abortion. We know Wisconsin, North Dakota, South Dakota and Iowa have put abortion bans in place. So this abortion vehicle, chemical abortion or just the pill van will go around the state and serve women who are looking for abortion through pills. I have heard recently that they're actually trying to outfit a surgical van so that that could also be used to take abortion to the border. So they're desperate to keep it available.

I guess that's what I want to say. They're thinking of more and more different ways to do the deed. It seems now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned, there's actually a greater radicalization of it at this point, which just shows you the heart of man that rejects God and his word that he's the creator of life. They want to destroy life.

It's really, really troubling. Colleen Tronson with us today on the Christian worldview. I want to read a paragraph to you and play an audio soundbite recently from a representative in the House of Representatives, U.S. House.

This is from Christian headlines. The bill H.R. 26 would require that life-saving care be given to babies who survive an abortion, according to the bill supporters. Specifically, the bill states that, quote, an infant born alive after an abortion has the same claim to the protection of the law that would arise for any newborn, unquote. Further, the bill requires that the infant born alive be, quote, immediately transported and admitted to a hospital, unquote.

The bill passed the House of Representatives 220 to 210. Every single Democrat voted against this bill, except for one. During the floor debate, Representative Hillary Scholten, who's a Democrat from Michigan, she cited Jeremiah 1, verse 5 from the Bible in her opposition to this bill. And this verse is often quoted by the pro-life community. It reads, in part, before I formed you in the womb, I knew you before you were born. I set you apart.

Let me play that soundbite and then get your follow up remarks. I'm the first mother in history to represent West Michigan in Congress. This matter is deeply personal to me. I recently shared publicly about my own experience navigating a complex miscarriage and the loss of my daughter as a pro-choice Christian who chose life.

This issue is so personal to me. My faith informs my actions, but it doesn't dictate the policy of an entire nation. And further, when I read the scripture, I turn to passages and I'm guided by passages like Jeremiah 1, verse 5, which states, I knew you before I formed you and I placed you in your mother's womb. It doesn't say the government's womb or the speaker's womb. It says the mother's womb. I believe life is precious, but I reject the idea that if I embrace the sanctity of life, I also must be forced to invite the federal government in to regulate it. We must protect families from unnecessary government intrusion into the most sacred and personal decisions of our lives and our children's lives.

OK, so that is quite an audio bite and so many things wrong there. Basically, I'm a pro-choice Christian. That's an oxymoron to say that. You cannot be a true Bible believing Christian and know that God is the creator of life and know what abortion is. It's the intentional killing, even murder, of a human being. So that's an oxymoron. But then saying that, you know, what my own personal faith is can't be dictated to the rest of the country.

We do this all the time. You're not free to murder another person in this country. So we obviously legislate morality. And so she speaks very convincingly, very assertively.

But what's your reaction when you hear that particular audio soundbite, Colleen? We're all going to have to answer to God someday for the choices we make and for the statements we make in public. And for someone who is in a position of that level of government and influence to not use her encouragement to people to stand for life is terrifying to me, because if she is a pro-choice Christian, as she says, we can't really hyphenate Christianity. You're either a Christian or you're not a Christian. You can't be a pro-choice Christian in the sense of abortion on demand without apology.

You just can't do it. Also, I'm sure her situation was very difficult. She said she had a complicated miscarriage.

And I want people to keep in mind that those complicated medical situations that require medical intervention because of the pregnancy situation are something completely different than I just don't want to be pregnant now. So just to use a complicated miscarriage that she had to justify taking a life of other children, I think is a big stretch. I only have to go to the Bible and find Exodus where it says thou shalt not kill.

And that's where I stand. We shouldn't kill. And especially the most vulnerable of the vulnerable in their mother's wombs. And I think it's insulting to women to say that the only way we can be free of government intervention is that if we have the right to kill our children. I think that's insulting. Colleen, how do you explain how people in the country don't just see that as just barbaric, that you wouldn't want to provide life-saving medical treatment for a baby that's born alive after an abortion that didn't take?

Well, the Bible says that our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. Who can know it? And that's the thing that comes to my mind. It also makes me think whose pocket are these people in? What restraints are they under? What promises do they make to constituents or people that they wouldn't allow these things to pass? Group think is really dangerous. And especially when it might be on such a massive issue as this, we need to think biblically and think critically about the issues that are in front of us. And sometimes when you're a politician, you might not have that freedom because of pressure from people who are in your districts. I don't know all the details, but I just wonder who have they made promises to that they have to vote against this. And also, if you vote to protect a life that was meant for abortion, then you're kind of in a quandary of, wait, I said it's okay to kill this baby, but now it's alive, now what?

So to keep alive something that you wanted dead really puts you in a difficult psychological place. Colleen Tronson with us today. I would just encourage listeners, if you didn't hear our previous interview with Colleen, where she tells her story about having three abortions before she came to saving faith in Jesus Christ.

You can hear the interview by going to our website, thechristianrealview.org, click on past programs, and scroll down to the July 2nd, 2022 program. It's just extremely powerful to hear what God has done in Colleen's life. I'm sure there are women listening today who made choices that they very much regret. There's a conscience that convicted them and thank God for that kind of conscience. What is the basis for God forgiving a woman who's had an abortion?

Well, God does have the right to judge us because he is a righteous judge, and he does have every right to judge us for the sin that we commit. And when we choose abortion, some women choose it with full knowledge of what they're doing, some choose it because they're coerced by boyfriend, family, whatever. Some women choose it because they're involved with prostitution and the pimp wants them to not be pregnant, so they are coerced into that. So all the reasons why women choose abortion, they're so varied and nuanced that it's hard to know in each situation what the responsibility is of the woman. But if she chooses abortion, at some point, she's going to have to deal with God about that.

Some women never have physical complications, some women never have emotional consequences, but all of us as women, at some point, we're going to have to face God with the choice that we made. I love 2 Corinthians 1, verse 3 and 4, and it says, Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort that we ourselves receive from God. I love that compassion and comfort that God gives to us when we confess our sin and ask for forgiveness. The Bible says that if you confess your sins, God is faithful and just to forgive your sins, and I know that verse is written to Christians in John 3.17 says that God sent Jesus into the world not to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved. So when we in sincerity, come to God, first of all, as sinners, because we're born of Adam, that's where our sin nature comes from. So we need to understand that we need a Savior, first of all, that we need the gospel, and that that gospel is available for anyone who will believe, and that Jesus loved us before we loved him. Even when we weren't thinking about him, he was thinking about us and he is available for us to ask for forgiveness from God and to receive that, and then to be cleansed.

I love the scriptures that talk about God casting our sin as far as the east is from the west, and that he puts it behind him and he doesn't remember it anymore. I think there's a point at which as dealing with someone who's had an abortion, to really talk about are you remorseful for the abortion? Are you remorseful that you took the life of your child?

Or are you just sorry that you're suffering? And I think we have to be really honest with ourselves as women who've had abortions, that we are guilty of a sin against the holy God, that we took a life that we had no right to take. But then I think about all the but gods in scripture, about God who is rich in mercy, and who loves us, and that forgiveness is so available to us. But we have to be honest first about what we did. And certainly there are situations where people were coerced or forced into it and were acted upon by other people. But ultimately, we have to take responsibility for that and ask for forgiveness and God will forgive you.

And I know he will, because he did it for me. I love Isaiah, where it says, Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord, though our sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, though they'll be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. And you know, in my life, there had been a lot of scarlet.

And in the women that I deal with, there's lots of scarlet, there's lots of stuff. But God is available. And that's such a comfort to me. And as Christians, because we've been on the receiving end of receiving God's compassion, we can be living witnesses to his mercy and his loving care.

And we can share that compassion with others not to beat people up or to cause them to feel more shame than they're probably already feeling. But just to say, there's a remedy for this. And that remedy is Jesus Christ.

And he's available to you. Amen. And I think of Romans 5-8, God demonstrates his own love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

And what a credible thing. Think of the life of King David in the Old Testament, how he committed adultery, Bathsheba, arranged to have Bathsheba's husband murdered, hid that sin. And finally, when he was confronted about it, he repented and was completely restored and forgiven by God. That's the incredible mercy and grace of God that this is a forgiving and graceful God for those who truly are repentant over their sins.

So thank you for explaining that. We'll take a short break and be right back. You are listening to the Christian worldview. I'm David Wheaton.

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That's a really good question. You know, every day we hear stories about people who are experiencing challenges and every day we hear hard stories about individuals. Some are abortion vulnerable. Some just need a little support. Like, I'm always astounded when a tank of gas or a grocery gift card can save a life. I had one woman come in and she had three kids already and thinking about abortion because she didn't know how to feed her kids. Bag of groceries, tank of gas, ongoing support. She chose life for her baby. Rent help, support, maternity clothes, baby clothes, just those practical helps.

And we're not trying to say that, hey, if you just have a crib or if you just have a car seat, you can be a good parent. We're saying that there's hope for you in the midst of your hopelessness that will come alongside you and will support you and help you. And just that extra shoulder to have help with has made a big difference. I just had a gal in this week and she was facing an eviction notice and I was able to reach out to a couple of agencies and we were able to get her at least three quarters of the money she needed so that she wouldn't get evicted. And that gives her hope and it gives her help so that she can face the difficulty that she's facing. So many of the women that we see are not abortion minded, but maybe have had an abortion in their past. And when we talk to them and they say, I didn't know there was help available.

I didn't know I could ask for help. So they maybe chose abortion because they didn't know there were over 40 pregnancy resource centers in Minnesota. They didn't know that there was cradle of hope. They didn't know that there was life fund. They didn't know that there was help available. So in their crisis, they didn't know and chose abortion.

So it really depends on each person's situation. What will be the turning point for her? For some women, it's I didn't know that my baby's development was like this. I didn't know that my baby had cardiac activity at 18 days. I didn't know the fetal development pieces.

For some of them, that makes a difference. I mean, there are fetal models here at the office and they're the exact size and weight of a baby at a certain developmental stage. And a couple times when a woman was undecided, I said, you know, do you know about your baby's development?

And she said no. And I said, would you be willing to let me show you what's going on? And using those fetal models has been helpful. And we always ask permission. We don't just shove it on in their face. Just the reality of this is what's going on inside my womb can be helpful for them.

Colleen, we know this great evil is going on all around us in this country. And people who are pro-life want to get involved. Just close us today with some ideas for listeners and for churches to get involved in the pro-life movement, especially when the gospel, the only hope to sinners is inextricably linked to this work in the pro-life movement. I was reading today in Psalm 119, verse 130, it says, the entrance of thy word gives light. It gives understanding unto the simple. As we do this work in Minnesota and throughout the country, it's the word of God that's going to bring light into the darkness of the hearts of people. It's the word of God that brought light into my darkness when I was on the other side of this issue. It was the word of God that illuminated the truth about my sin and it illuminated the truth about abortion to me. And I had a conversation with a woman the other day whose daughter is going through an unplanned pregnancy situation and she had heard the words that I had spoken before about abortion and about the issues around pregnancy care help because her daughter is now in the middle of this.

She told me, she said, I listened with different ears tonight and I think sometimes we need to listen with different ears when we talk to people who are in these situations, not listening to judge or listen to give an answer, but listen to their stories and listen to the whys behind. They might be thinking about these things and we can only really do that in the context of relationship with people. So there's lots of different ways to fight abortion. There's legislation, there's pregnancy help, there's maternity homes, there's all kinds of places, but without the relationships with people who are in these situations, we're not going to make a difference.

We're not going to be able to change their minds in one little conversation. So it has to be in the context of relationship that we do this. And Doug McLaughlin used to say, you know, as Christians, we're not supposed to be in our holy huddles looking inward. We're supposed to be looking out to see who God might be calling us to help. And as the church comes to grips with what's happening with abortion, to be involved in pro-life works throughout their state. If you have a pregnancy center in your city, get involved, provide diapers, provide formula, provide car seats, provide car repair, provide those things that might help a woman who might be thinking about abortion if she doesn't have support. I'm always so amazed to look back on our ministry and see how at different times a bag of groceries or a gas card changed a woman's heart enough so that she didn't choose abortion. So those little things that you can do out in your own community to help will make a difference. And also, I think from the pulpit, we need to speak about compassion for people who need help. Pregnancy is a public thing.

It shows up. There's lots of sins that we do as Christians that don't show up, but this one shows up. And if we don't speak about how to help people who are in that situation, if we don't speak about it from the pulpit, we're missing being that hands and feet of Jesus to someone who needs it, giving that cup of cold water to someone in need. We need churches being involved by speaking out from the pulpit and thinking about the fact that Minnesota is becoming an oasis for abortion. Think about all the people coming from different states that we might not have ever had an opportunity to share the gospel with. We might run into those folks and we might have an opportunity to share the gospel with them. We might have an opportunity to bring light into their darkness. We can stem some of the tide. We're not going to change everybody's mind, but we can do something. This last week, a lady called me and said, you know, you helped me 15 years ago and I just wanted you to know that my life is good now.

And I don't even really remember what we did with her, but she remembered it because she said, I just wanted to tell you that you helped me when I needed help. So I think sometimes we start thinking that, oh, we have to do this big, flashy something. But really, it just starts with one person doing one thing for one person who's in a pregnancy situation. God doesn't expect us to do it all.

He doesn't expect us to perform heroic feats of anything. He just wants us to be available. And by being available, we can make a difference in one person's life. Well, Colleen, I just want to thank you for coming on the program yet again. And thank you also, I think on behalf of people, at least in this area, and I know that people who are pro-life nationwide who just want to thank you for the great work that you do at Metro Women's Center, helping women find alternatives to abortion. So we just thank you and just wish all of God's best and grace to you. Thank you for coming on the program. Well, thank you for raising awareness about the issue and continuing to just be a voice for the unborn and for the ladies and for the guys who are involved in this issue. And we all have our part to do and everyone doing their part can make a big difference. Again, Colleen Tronson, the executive director of Metro Women's Center here in Minnesota joined us today. Their website is metrowomencenter.org. So just a couple of follow up points on this topic of abortion.

What's the way forward? Well, it's confusing how a majority of Americans are pro-life, at least they profess to be, but our political leaders, at least in large part, are pro-abortion. That's hard to explain. Apparently, people aren't voting their pro-life values or election fraud is far beyond what we could possibly imagine. Listen to this soundbite from Minnesota State Representative Tina Leibling as she is asked when a baby becomes a human being. Listen to this rationalized, non-objective answer. When is a baby a human? Representative Leibling. There are a number of things to respond to there and, you know, first of all, I think the inflammatory rhetoric that is used in this space, I understand we all have feelings about abortion.

Representative Scott, everyone does. And these questions about when is a baby human? When does human life begin? You know, the thing is, different people have different feelings about those issues. And their feelings may change depending on their own personal situation. It doesn't matter what I think is human or not human or, you know, it matters what she thinks. It matters what her family thinks.

That's what matters. And so that's why your question to me is completely irrelevant. Why should I, as a politician, inflict my feeling about it into somebody else's life? That would be absolutely wrong.

And I think most Minnesotans would think that was absolutely wrong. Just to clarify, every law legislates someone's morality. Someone's worldview is being imposed on another person whenever a law is made. That is the textbook example of relativistic thinking, that there is no objective truth. We as Christians know there is objective truth because God sets objective truth in His Word.

But you reject God and you reject objective truth. So the first point on the way forward on abortion is to make it unthinkable. We're not going to be able to depend on political action and political laws to ban abortion.

Celebrate the victories where you can get them. But just like with the issue of smoking, it used to be very popular, now people don't want to smoke because they know how bad it is for them. We need to be persuasive in proclaiming the truth of God's Word, that the preborn baby is a distinct human being from its mother, deserving the right to life. To kill that life, intentionally, is murder.

And that should be unthinkable for any woman to do. Number two has to do with judgment. I was reading in Matthew chapter 11, where Jesus says, We need to proclaim repentance of sin in our nation.

If He judged Sodom for their wickedness, how much more is He going to judge our own nation for being every bit as wicked as Sodom, especially due to the fact that we have been given so much biblical truth in the gospel in this country and yet rejected it. The third point is this, as Colleen was saying, that every Christian can get involved in some small way. Speak the truth about abortion. Make it unthinkable for people.

Say what it actually is. The lie is everywhere. Listen to this recent soundbite on MSNBC from a Minnesota politician who says partial birth abortion doesn't actually take place.

A child does not come out part way alive and then doctors kill it. That's not a thing. That's not a thing today. It's not a thing tomorrow. It's not a thing 10 years ago. It's not a thing.

So for us to legislate things that don't exist in real life, again, perfect example of why politicians should not practice health care. Dictionary definition of partial birth abortion, a late term abortion of a fetus that has already died or is killed before being completely removed from the mother. Recognize the lie and speak the truth. The final thing and the most important thing of all is to proclaim the hope of salvation to all people in the midst of this. Jesus said in that same chapter in Matthew 11, come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls.

For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Whether you are for or against abortion, whether you have had an abortion or not, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And Romans 6 23 says, for the wages of sin is death, judgment and hell.

But here's the good news. The free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord. The Bible says believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Thank you so much for joining us on the Christian Real View today. In just a moment there will be all kinds of information on this nonprofit radio ministry. Let's remember Jesus Christ and His word are the truth and the same yesterday and today and forever.

Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Real View is a listener supported nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Real View partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianrealview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian Real View.