Pastor in Ukraine War Zone Gives First-Hand Perspective

Pastor in Ukraine War Zone gives first-hand perspective. That is the topic we'll discuss today, right here on the Christian Real View Radio Program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. Thank you to listeners like you, and also our national sponsor, Samaritan Ministries, who provide a biblical solution to healthcare.

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So thank you for considering that. Okay, let's get to our topic for the day. Pastor in Ukraine War Zone is going to give us a first-hand perspective from Kyiv. It's been over a month and Ukraine continues to fight back against the military invasion by Vladimir Putin's Russian forces. The human toll is high. Thousands of people have been killed on both sides, with homes and other non-military buildings destroyed. Cities like Mariupol have been decimated by Russian military bombardment, causing millions of refugees flooding out of Ukraine. Meanwhile, the debate rages in Europe and America about what to do. Is more intervention called for beyond supplying arms and the technological support that the Ukrainians are getting right now, such as enforcing a no-fly zone over the country, which really means direct combat with Russian forces?

Or should the West just stay out of it, reasoning that the United States in particular has little strategic interest in Ukraine? Even in an age of countless information sources, it's difficult to know why Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine and what is taking place. That is why we are looking forward to talking to an American pastor who has ministered in Ukraine for 30 years and has chosen to stay with his congregation in the capital city of Kyiv in the midst of this war. Pastor Greg, and we're withholding his last name in church for security reasons, joins us today to give us a first-hand, on-the-ground perspective. Let's get straight to the interview with Pastor Greg in Kyiv. Greg, thank you for joining us all the way from Kyiv in Ukraine today on the Christian Worldview radio program. Just tell us first how long you have been in Ukraine, what do you do there, and why are you staying in that city despite the war going on with Russia right now? First, thank you for having me on.

It's a privilege to be with you and on your show. We've been here for almost 30 years. This August will be 30 years that we've had the privilege of serving our Lord here in Ukraine. So we came and after about a year or so of language study, the evangelical church community here really needed a full-time seminary.

They had some training programs here and there, but they really needed a full-time seminary program to train their pastors who basically didn't have any training during the Soviet era. It's been an amazing time just to be able to be a part of that, in a sense, that aspect of ministry in Ukraine as far as training men for ministry, or actually training men who are already in ministry to better or accurately handle God's Word. The second part of our ministry has been in the area of church planting. We've been a part of two church plants over the years. People are wonderful people, people that love relationships, encouraging one another. They love God's Word. They hold God's Word in the highest respect, as authoritative in their life. So it's been really a pleasure to be in pastoral ministry as well here.

You asked why stay with the war. As a pastor, I feel that the pastor needs to be with his sheep, especially when the sheep are going through probably the most difficult time in their life. Everything is uprooted.

There's literally life and death situations going on in their life. The pastor needs to be with his sheep to lead, guide, care for them. And that's why I decided, and I did it with my wife as well. We both sat down, talked about it, we prayed about it. And we really decided that, you know, that is exactly what God wanted for us, was to stay and to shepherd our people here. So one of the family that just came a few days ago is one of our faculty members, and he was in the city of Trniga.

Most of you probably have heard about Trniga, pretty much nonstop shelling by the Russians pretty much from day one. And the Lord provided an opening, in a sense, a corridor for them to get out. And they were able to get out and to come here. And they're here with us right now. So we thank the Lord.

We thank the Lord for what we're able to do. Greg with us, and we're withholding his last name here for security reasons, coming to us from Kiev in Ukraine. He's a pastor there, also started a seminary in Ukraine to train men to pastor and to minister in that country. What is it like where you are in Kiev right now? Are you seeing Russian forces? How are you spending your days during this war?

We have not seen Russian troops in Kiev. We thank the Lord for that. We do have shelling. Matter of fact, as we're talking, I can hear the shelling. It's all defensive shelling or outgoing shelling, not incoming shelling. By God's grace, the Ukrainian army have been able to hold Kiev secure, you might say. In that sense, there have been some rockets, some missiles that have made their way in.

But by God's grace, we haven't had to suffer that. Like I just mentioned a minute ago, our faculty member just coming from Trniga. He's a pastor there as well.

Incredible. Just nonstop shelling. They were in a bomb shelter, basically the basement of their house made into a bomb shelter. His wife's youngest brother was killed by the shelling. He was helping some other people get into a bomb shelter. His wife, who was who's expecting their first child.

He got her in safely and a shell went off near him and took his life. Those kinds of things going on. We've made trips to the Polish border to receive aid coming in from the West.

Places like European Bible Training Center based in Berlin have been extremely helpful. Sending aid, basically a couple of vans every other day or so. When you make trips, you know, there's different things that are going on. You can see troop movements. Sometimes you see the aftermath of a battle that has taken place in that particular area.

People that are suffering traumatic things. Another family from Trniga, we were able to help with financial gifts that have come from the West. They had a nice, nice home. Before picture and after picture, you know, it's gone. You know, their home is gone.

It's a young family, you know, young daughter. There's kind of that earthquake, you know, and there's the shock, you know, that it's happened and what's kind of what's going on. But there's a huge wave coming after. People come out of their bomb shelters or their basements or wherever they've been hiding. Just in Harcove alone, you know, there's like 1,500 apartment buildings that are destroyed. 50 to 100, you know, schools that have been destroyed. You have hospitals that have been destroyed. You kind of say, I guess, you know, kind of the basics of life.

Where do you go to school? Where do you get treatment if you're sick or you have some kind of injury? Stores, food warehouses have been destroyed. This has affected, obviously, their farming. They've destroyed pharmaceutical storage places as well as manufacturing. There's a huge infrastructure devastation that's taken place.

I mean, it's going to take years, you know, years for them to come back from something like this. How are you personally, Greg, you and your family and your church, do you have enough food and water and just the basic necessities? Where are you getting those in the midst of this situation? Early on, we decided to move from our home to the seminary church facility because we wanted to be with our people in the area of our people.

Gas was very difficult to get and we weren't sure where the rockets were going to be falling as well. So we've moved. We're now living, like I said, at the church and seminary. By God's grace, we have limited, I would say, limited supplies of food in the regular stores.

Certain things have been rationed. We've received some aid from, like I mentioned, from the European Bible Training Center and some of our affiliates in Poland as well as Romania. We have not had outage as far as electricity or water, but other cities have, like Brother Igor coming from Trniga for three weeks, basically no water, no heat, no electricity. So you have people living in those kinds of situations, Trniga, Sumi, Kharkov.

Obviously, you've seen the devastation in Mariupol. So we have brothers and sisters in those areas. Because we've been training men pastors for so many years, really we have graduates and students literally throughout Ukraine. That's given us a network of pastors, churches, church leaders through which now we can start moving humanitarian aid, especially to some of these places that are just completely devastated. We've received some refugees from Trniga and they were just so thankful just to have a hot shower because they haven't had a hot shower for three weeks. They were just so glad to be able to spend a night in a building that was warm.

You know, often we take all those things for granted, go into our house, we flip on the heater or the air conditioner or whatever, the lights, you know, a hot shower. But it wasn't for them for, like I said, for three, four weeks living in those kinds of situations. Greg, with us today, we're withholding his last name, a pastor, started a seminary, currently coming to us in Kyiv, Ukraine, the middle of that country in war, being attacked by Putin in Russia right now.

We'll get to the geopolitics of the situation in a minute. But what is the receptivity to the gospel like right now over there when people are in basically survival mode? God uses difficult times to open people's hearts to the gospel as people are in difficult situations, life-threatening situations, in transit from their city to the border. We come alongside of them and help them to know that there is a God, that the God is in control, even though things around them might seem out of control. But there is a God who is in control and can share the gospel with these people. Many of them are are extremely open to the gospel because that's what they're facing. They're facing life and death.

They don't you know, they don't know what the day is going to bring. So they're very focused on eternal things. And we have that opportunity to share the gospel with them. We have some books that we're able to share with them too, depending on kind of where they are. We have Bibles as well, New Testaments that we're able to give to them as well. So we have these kinds of opportunities, obviously, as well as we're giving out humanitarian aid, food.

That's a tool in a sense, you know, obviously it's needed for life, but as well it's a tool. And God uses that obviously to open people's hearts, their attitudes towards us that we're doing something, a demonstration of God's love towards them in that way. And we're able to share more specifically, you know, through the gospel of God's love for them. Pastor Greg with us today here on the Christian Real View Radio program.

He's coming to us from Keefe. He's a pastor there. We're withholding his last name and also the name of the churches for security reasons. If you would like to be part of the support of Pastor Greg and the men he's working with, their ministry over there, there's several support agencies, but we're going to highlight one that we've actually featured on the program this last fall. You may remember when we did the program on missions in Lifegate International. Their website is lifegateinternational.org. If you go there, you can donate specifically to Pastor Greg and the other folks there who are working in ministry in Ukraine to do that, lifegateinternational.org.

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That's 1-888-646-2233, or thechristianrealview.org. David Wheaton here, host of the Christian Real View Radio Program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay to broadcast on the radio station, website, or app on which you are listening today. That expense is recouped through listeners like you making a donation or becoming a Christian Real View partner. Our aim is to have each broadcast outlet fully supported by the listeners of that outlet. If you would like to help us in our mission to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, go to thechristianrealview.org and click on Donate.

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I'm David Wheaton. Visit our website, thechristianrealview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Now back to the interview with Pastor Greg in Kiev, Ukraine. What is the mood of the Ukrainian people? You're in Kiev, so you're not everywhere, but you're obviously interacting, communicating with people from different parts of the country. Christians are fleeing some cities coming to where you are in Kiev, which is for now holding off the attack. What is the mood of the Ukrainian people? Do they believe they can oust Russia, or do they feel like they're in a hopeless situation, and then they're eventually just going to get taken over? The people that have stayed are resilient.

They're incredible. I think everybody that I've talked to believe they're going to win the war. I kind of picture it this way. You know, if somebody breaks into your house, you're going to do everything you can, use everything you can, you know, to get those people out of your house, and that's the same kind of attitude. They've invaded their land. It's their land. It's their house.

They're going to do whatever it's going to take to preserve their land, their home, so they're able to be here and live here. Now there's, of course, in any war, there's always a propaganda machine on both sides and all sides, because both sides want to present things that are going to help their cause. I mean, the first rule of war is deception.

You want to deceive the enemy. We get a lot of news reports, varying news reports that are influenced by one side or the other. You told us about some of the condition of other cities in Ukraine, Mariupol and other cities that are really, really in difficult shape, apartment buildings, non-military places are totally decimated and so forth.

How do you think this is going to end up? What are you hearing that Russian President Putin wants or will settle for? I think he basically wants what is called the Donbas and the Lugansk area. They kind of had half of it up to the beginning of the war.

I think they want all of that territory. I have no idea if the Ukrainian government is going to agree to something like that, but I think that's what he wants at this point. I think it's become very clear to him that his troops aren't the troops he thought he has and that the Ukrainians are more resilient and tactically pretty with it when it comes to fighting, especially for their land. I don't think he expected the response that he got from the Ukrainians. I've been hearing they've been taking some pretty tremendous losses, not only of their highest military commanders, but countless numbers of their troops and their military weaponry and so forth.

Pastor Greg is joining us from Kyiv, Ukraine today, a pastor of an unnamed church there. We're talking about the situation going on. There have been a lot of contradictory perspectives that we hear in the media in the West.

I'm just going to ask you to clarify the best way you know how here from what you're hearing on the ground. These sometimes are perspectives on those on the right politically here. I think there's a division.

Some on the right in America are very like the neo-cons. Let's get in there. Let's push back Russia. Let's do a no-fly zone and so forth.

Let's get involved in this conflict, this war. On one side you have those who say Ukraine is a democracy. We need to protect this democracy versus others will say, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. This is a place where the Bidens, Hunter Biden, the money laundering, the Clintons have been involved.

There's biological laboratories there, secret biological laboratories from the United States are there. George Soros, a man who wants the downfall of America. He works against everything traditional America, although living in America. Tell us more about Ukraine. Is it a democracy or is it this sort of super corrupt country that we shouldn't want to support anything that George Soros and the Bidens are for? Well, I guess I would ask, you know, what country is not corrupt? Because you just named, you know, a bunch of people from the United States. I'm sure we could name a bunch of people in every country of the world as far as corruption.

It's just, I mean, that's the state of the human heart. But when we look at a country, at least from my perspective, you look at the people, you look at the common person, you know, the person that goes to work, has a family, comes home. To me, that's the country, that's the people. And the people here are very loving people, a very giving people.

They love to be with each other, encourage each other. That's what I look at when I'm looking at the country. Is it a democracy? It's a democracy as far as I can tell. They've had, again, as far as I can tell, legitimate elections. The current president, I think, was legitimately elected. They've had, as you know, probably a couple of revolutions or whatever you want to call them, to kick out leaders that the people didn't want.

You know, you had literally hundreds of thousands of people demonstrating. So that's not just a, you know, a select elite, in a sense, group of people wanting the government to be a certain way or a certain person in charge. I think it's more democratic than our neighbor. If we want to look at it that way. And you mean Russia when you say that your neighbor Russia.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, I think it's more democratic than Russia. I'm impressed with the current president. A lot of people have made fun of him. He was a comedian, you know, so, you know, whatever, you know, his lifestyle, et cetera, et cetera. Just looking at it from a, in a sense, a distance, you know, because I don't know the guy personally, to take on what was once viewed as the second best military in the world, and to hold them at bay, and to inflict significant damage to the army, and to keep his country intact, to keep his people encouraged, to speak to multiple governing bodies throughout the world, and to receive standing ovations, and to be acclaimed, you know, for his speeches, as far as being some of the best that they've ever heard, I think says something about the man.

He's more than just a comedian. You know, I think he really loves Ukraine. He could have left, right? The United States offered to take him out, and he could have done whatever from a safe place. But he chose to stay in Kiev. That's the gold ring.

That's what they wanted. But he chose to stay. I think that says a lot about the man, and he's, every day, he's encouraging. He's not, you know, he's not hiding in a room behind some monitors. He's not sitting behind, you know, some long table talking to people.

He's out there. He's visiting soldiers that have been wounded in the hospital. He's walking on the streets talking with people, encouraging his people. So, to me, that speaks volumes about a man. He loves his country. He loves his people. And he's there all the way to the end. If his life's taken, okay, his life's taken. But, to me, that says a lot about a man.

It does to me as well. Obviously, there's been a big division on who he is. You know, some people, as you just mentioned, you're considering him this courageous hero like Winston Churchill, where others are seeing him as, well, he's banned opposition parties in the country. He's a globalist, a world economic for him. And he may be that.

He may have some of those inclinations, I guess. But what we know is he's staying in the country. He's trying to defend his homeland from an unprovoked, at least a militarily unprovoked invasion of Putin and Russia. It seems to me that people should have the right, or at least should have the right of self-determination for their own country if they don't want to be taken over.

So, at least at that minimal level, we can applaud him and respect him for that. One big discussion going on here in America is how much this country should be involved militarily. I would have to guess that this country and other Western nations are involved in very significant ways behind the scenes. We know their weapons, Western weapons, are coming in, helping the Ukrainians and so forth. But more overt military involvement, like implementing a no-fly zone, which basically means that you have Western or European or American planes getting into air-to-air combat if challenged by Russian airplanes. That's an open, live-fire war situation. Now, you're an American, and you're in Kiev. Do you think the U.S. military should be intervening openly and actively in Ukraine or just be supporting as they are from the outside? I view it this way.

What are our morals? That's where I start. They've talked about, okay, well, if he crosses the line, the red line, well, then define what that red line is. So, I would define the red line as indiscriminate bombing of civilians, indiscriminate bombing of hospitals, indiscriminate bombings of schools, indiscriminate bombing of food storage, medical storage.

That's my red line. If the country goes and starts doing those kinds of things, their intent, as I would understand it, is to totally annihilate those people. I think an example of that, you can see, is Mariupol. Russia would have their explanation for those things. I know people that live there, so I know the truth. I know people that live in Kharkov. I know people who, as a matter of fact, Igor, in his own yard had a cluster bomb.

Well, you're not supposed to be using cluster bombs. In my thinking, have they crossed the red line? In my thinking, they've crossed the red line.

They crossed it a long time ago. In some sense, I'm ashamed that the United States hasn't done more. That's obviously my personal opinion on that. But just for me personally, morally, you have the power to stop something, and yet you don't use that against innocent people, against mothers who are expecting children, children who are in a hospital, children who are struggling with cancer.

You probably should stop there. I completely understand and respect that sentiment, and I think those who are urging more restraint are thinking, this is Russia, it's a nuclear power. Would this elicit or would this start a chain of events to start World War III? I completely respect what you're saying, but both of us know there's also the other side of it, too.

What does that mean? Do we want our sons and daughters coming over and fighting on the ground against Russia and Ukraine? And these are very difficult questions to answer, strategic interest of Ukraine to America or to Europe and so forth.

All these things are things that need to be calculated and understood. But your answer is helpful to consider and to know what's going on there as we think about this situation in Ukraine. Pastor Greg joins us right from Kiev right now where this war is taking place. If you'd like to support his ministry there, you can go to one of the support agencies that's helping them with ministry and humanitarian aid and everything else, lifegateinternational.org. You remember them.

They were featured on the program in the fall of 2021. You can select a dropdown for help in Ukraine. It'll go directly to them, and they're an excellent organization that that aid gets to them.

Okay, brief pause here. I'm David Wheaton, and you're listening to the Christian worldview. Help us sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ by becoming a Christian worldview partner.

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Transcripts and short takes are also available. Now back to the interview with Pastor Greg in Kiev, Ukraine. We hear in America as well, some people on the right in America say that there's a large contingent of some called the Azov Battalion. This is like a neo-Nazi regiment in the military, the Ukrainian military.

This element of it is not something that should be supported. What do you know about that? That topic seems to come up quite a bit. Vladimir Putin even used this as a justification for invading Ukraine. That the white supremacists, neo-Nazis, part of the Ukrainian military. Do you know anything about that? I have no idea. Never seen them.

We've had over 2,000 students over the years. Not one of them has ever mentioned anything about neo-Nazis. Come on, I mean, the president is Jewish. Of course, every country probably has quote-unquote neo-Nazis or white supremacists or whatever. But nothing that you would come here and say, oh yeah, they're neo-Nazis running around here.

I've never encountered that. Thank you for answering some of these things that get filtered over to America that we see in actually alternative media a lot too, where you read some of these things just about who Zelensky is and is Ukraine a real democracy? Should the U.S. intervene? These are discussions that may not be taking place there. Probably are not because you and others over there are just trying to make it through another day.

Where over here it's theoretical situations going on when the bottom line is Ukraine is under assault and just fighting for its survival. Let's close today, Greg, by asking how we can be, listeners today can be praying for you and believers there and how we can help you. Are there ways that we've talked about donating through lifegateinternational.org?

That obviously is one way. Give us some parting words about what we can be praying for you and just some final words that you would like to address American listeners to know. Great. Thank you for the opportunity to do that. Maybe just, yeah, another word for Lifegate.

I know Steve Lanetti, I've known him for a few decades now and have worked with him, great brother, great work. They're doing great things. They've already helped us a lot through financial giving, providing humanitarian aid for our brothers and sisters here and for people just in general here in Ukraine. So, yeah, if you feel led to do that, please, yeah, give through Lifegate. Would appreciate that very much.

We look at the whole gamut in a sense. So, you know, maybe starting in Western Europe, just prayer as well for the church in Western Europe. You have close to four million Ukrainians that have left Ukraine, spilling into all different countries throughout Western Europe. The church there in Western Europe has done phenomenal, phenomenal job reaching out to the refugees, continued prayer for them, for the churches there. As time goes on, it gets a little harder to keep ministering to people in this way. Some people are very thankful for the churches and the ministry to them. Some people aren't. Some people are very bitter because they've had to leave their home and everything that's dear to them.

So that bitterness comes out towards a person that's trying to help them. So those kinds of things. And obviously the proclamation of the Gospel, reception of the Gospel, able to print and get good materials, we're working on that, just that we'd be able to expedite that more, be able to get out good materials to these different churches throughout Western Europe, many different countries, and be able to get that material out. As we move closer to the border, obviously, you know, there's all kinds of, there's good things that are going on, but as well, there can be bad things that are going on at a border. Obviously for protection for the people, the refugees, that those who are working on the border would be able to reach out and be able to help them quickly so they're not taken advantage of.

People would always say, use common sense and not put themselves into a situation that could be harmful for them, really. As the aid and the things come over the border as well, there's a lot of redistribution of that going on. So we need drivers, you know, to be able to drive the aid, get the aid to the cities, to the people that need it from the border areas. So that would be another big prayer request just for drivers, for vehicles, for the safety of those people that are driving and bringing the aid. And then, of course, you know, the local churches in the cities, the pastors.

I just had a meeting with some of my guys. They're all pastors, but now they've got refugees and one of them is, you know, feeding 400 people, you know, in a school. They're refugees. Just trying to feed 100, you know, orphans from Harkup, you know, and that just becomes wearing day in, day out on pastors and other people at the church. So pray for the pastors in the churches that God would just give them, you know, that unusual, you know, strength that the Lord can give, that grace, you know, that the Lord just pours out.

The pastors would not depend on their own strength, but the strength of the Lord. Obviously, we're praying for peace, but like I said, like a tsunami, I really think the bigger wave is coming once the shelling stops and people start coming out from the rubble, putting lives back together, people that have lost family members, people that don't even know where family members are, some who are buried in a mass grave. The building that they used to live in is no longer there.

Where are they going to live now? So there's just all those kinds of things that need to be helped and worked through so just that the Lord would help prepare the evangelical believers here to be able to really step up and address those kinds of things because I think the world, as I understand, the world is pretty much focused on this little country of Ukraine and it's interesting that it has the largest percent of evangelicals in Europe. So I think the Lord has a spotlight on us and I really, really want to encourage the evangelical believers here to really be able to step up and be a bright light in the world, to the world, what evangelical believers under the power of the Holy Spirit, what they can really do in such a difficult situation. Greg, let me just briefly pray with you before we end the interview here and we know many of our listeners just heard what you said and they will certainly be doing the same. Lord, we thank you for Pastor Greg and for those he's trained and discipled and shepherded over there in Ukraine for many, many years.

It's been decades. And we just pray that the fruit of that would be brought to your glory in the midst of this really terrible war and crisis right now and all the things he just mentioned from humanitarian aid to protection and peace and safety and end of this war, that you would be glorified, that believers would be emboldened there for further proclamation of the gospel and the rest of what he just mentioned, that you would do these things by your supernatural power, your grace. And so we pray your protection upon Greg and his family too. His son is going to be coming over there to help and we pray your special protection over them to do your work where you have placed them at this point in history. We just trust you and we pray all this in the name of your son, Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Greg, thank you for coming on the Christian worldview. All of God's best and safety and peace to you.

Thank you. All right, that was Greg, an American missionary and pastor in Ukraine, in Kiev. He started a seminary there that trains men to preach and minister in that country. It was interesting what he said about Ukraine having the largest percentage of evangelicals in Europe.

That was about as accurate reporting as you'll get. He's there. He's interacting with others who are moving around the country. He's delivering humanitarian aid.

He's lived there for 30 years. That's going to be a much better picture than you're going to get from a news anchor over here in the U.S. trying to interpret it from an ocean away. There are many different views on this war and it's easy to quarterback from across the ocean on our couches, in our warm, safe homes with electricity and hot water and food. You have the interventionists whose perspective is Putin is evil or maybe he's even insane. He's like Hitler or Stalin. He's trying to expand to other nations. Once he topples Ukraine, he'll go into other countries. There's this moral appeal that if we can do something to stop Putin in Russia, stop the suffering, we should do it.

That was Pastor Greg's position. It's understandable when you're under attack. You want it to stop even for the sake of your own family. Interventions are saying that the U.S. should intervene with some sort of direct engagement, maybe not U.S. soldiers on the ground but maybe a no-fly zone or technical support. I think there probably is a lot going on that we're not seeing that the U.S. and Western countries are doing right now to help Ukraine fend off Russia. As opposed to the interventionists, you have the skeptics on this war. They'll say this is a diversion from Biden's low-polling presidency.

A war is a perfect thing to get the attention of what the president is doing back home. Or they'll say this is a purposeful event to collapse the U.S. economy and the U.S. dollar in order to move us to globalism. After all, George Soros is supporting Ukraine and so we shouldn't. There are others who talk about the bio labs, the biological weapons labs that are in fact true. They are over there.

We don't know the extent of it or why they're there. But they'll say this war had something to do with that, that Putin invaded because he was fearful of what these bio labs were going to do. You also hear someone say Ukraine is historically Russian and that Ukraine should just surrender and that would actually save more people's lives if they just gave up. Another line you'll hear is Putin has more traditional values than the globalists in the European Union who have woke values. And Putin actually really wants a resurgence of Christianity through the Russian Orthodox Church.

Meanwhile, Putin is divorced and has several children with his mistress, a real moral guy. Another thing the skeptics will say is that NATO and the European Union triggered Putin into this war. They were, quote, poking the bear by engaging too much in Ukraine. Ukraine talked about wanting to become part of the European Union.

That was too much for Russia. And the U.S. would feel the same if Russia or China were in Cuba. Well, to that I would say that Ukraine is an independent state. They have the right to desire to become part of the European Union or NATO if they'd like. Now, they may have to defend themselves to do it, but they have every right to do that as a sovereign nation. And Cuba has the same right to bring in Russia or China. But again, they may have to defend that decision if the U.S. decides it's a threat to our security. And there's never been any evidence, at least since Hitler and World War II, that NATO or the European Union has any military intentions on taking on Russia. But that maybe is what Putin is thinking.

Who knows? I'm not saying all these things I've mentioned are wrong. I'm just saying these are some of the viewpoints that have been brought out during this war. Another one you'll hear is that Ukraine and Volodymyr Zelensky, the president, this is not a democracy. He bans opposition parties. There's an oligarch, a rich man that supports him, who works in media. Zelensky is a World Economic Forum young leader. He's a globalist. He's got anti-Christ-like charisma. He's a propagandist.

He used those captured versus killed sailors for his own ends. There's fake pictures going on over there to which I reply, yeah, probably he is. Every leader, every country is a propagandist for their own country.

That's a big part of war. Another thing you'll hear the skeptics say is that Ukraine is the most corrupt country and therefore we should keep our pristine hands off it. I think we need to do a little self-examination before we call Ukraine a corrupt country. It was President Joe Biden and his son who have profited from corrupt deals with Ukraine.

They made tons of money with Sun Hunter on the company called Burisma, which was a gas company for which he had no experience to be on their board. Frankly, I'm not sure there's a more corrupting influence in the world right now than our own country of the United States of America. I mean, do we have free and fair elections? I'm not so sure after the last presidential election. Is political opposition punished? Just think about what has happened to the people who entered the Capitol on January 6th after Biden was elected.

Many of them are still in prison, still awaiting their day in court. You also have to ask, what kind of values does President Biden and this administration export? They're radical abortion values and radical homosexual values. Just a couple days ago, here's what President Biden had to say as he put out a message in support of Transgender Day. To everyone celebrating Transgender Day of Visibility, I want you to know that your president sees you. Jill, Kamala, Doug, our entire administration sees you for who you are, made in the image of God and deserving of dignity, respect, and support.

But we know it's hard when there are those out there who don't see you and don't respect you. This administration is standing up for you against all these hateful bills, and we're committed to advancing transgender equality in the classroom, on the playing field, at work, in our military, in our housing and healthcare systems, everywhere, simply everywhere. But there's always more work to do to end the epidemic of violence against transgender women of color and girls of color, to ensure transgender seniors can age with dignity, and to finally pass the Bipartisan Equality Act, to help transgender persons around the world live free from discrimination and violence.

Above all, to be there with you. To parents of transgender children, affirming your child's identity to one of the most powerful things you can do to keep them safe and healthy. And to any transgender American who's struggling, please know that you're not alone. And know this, you're so brave, you belong, and we have your back. God bless you all.

Be brave. That was a Romans Chapter 1 speech where you're so depraved that you celebrate that which is completely offensive and sinful before God, with no concern for those souls who are enslaved to sin. Instead of helping them get out of it, you're affirming them in it.

What's more wicked than that? That's what this country is exporting now. So whether you're convinced by more of the interventionist arguments, or perhaps on the other side in the skeptics argument, I think there are two bottom line points here. Number one, Putin and Russia invaded a sovereign nation unprovoked, at least from a military standpoint. Ukraine did not invade Russia, it was the other way around. And Russia is decimating cities and killing thousands of people over in Ukraine.

That's number one. The second bottom line is this, that Zelensky and Ukraine have every right to defend themselves and determine their own future, rather than becoming a vassal state to Russia. And so I think Western nations should help, not with our soldiers on the ground or in direct combat with Russia, but in effective ways that will just make it so difficult for Russia to take over the country that they finally just say it's not worth it or not possible. And for those who will say that that will just lead Ukraine to become part of the European new global world order, that may be true.

But it's really like picking your wickedness. Would you rather have repressive globalists or tyrannical nationalists like Putin? We live in a very evil world. But I know this, if I was a Christian living in Ukraine, I know I would want to be helped instead of being taken over by Putin and Russia. It's a good thing that God is fully in control and is moving a war in which it is very difficult to discern what's going to come of it.

He's going to turn it for His purposes and His plans advance forward. So do not fear, do not be confused. We know that God is ruling on His throne. And the most important thing is if you do not know Him, if He is not your King, you need to obey His command to repent and believe in the gospel.

The gospel is the good news that you as a sinner can be made right with this holy God, this sovereign of the universe, and that you don't have to pay the penalty for your own sin and that God sent His Son to pay the penalty for you on that cross when He bled and died and then rose again victoriously over sin and death so that through faith in Him you can be forgiven and be gifted eternal life in heaven. Find out more at our website, thechristianrealview.org, by clicking on the page, What Must I Do to Be Saved. Thank you for joining us today on The Christian Real View. Thanks also to our supporters and Samaritan Ministries for funding today's program. In just a moment there will be all kinds of information on the ministry.

So let's be encouraged. We live in a challenging world, but Jesus Christ and His word are the same yesterday and today and forever. So until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of The Christian Real View is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out What Must I Do to Be Saved, go to thechristianrealview.org or call toll-free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Real View is a listener-supported nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Real View partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianrealview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Real View.