What really happens when you're born again? Dr. Steven Lawson joins us today right here on the Christian Real View radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Real View is a nonprofit, listener-supported radio ministry. We are able to broadcast on the radio station, website, or app in which you are listening today because of the support of listeners like you.
Thank you. You can connect with us by calling our toll-free number, 1-888-646-2233, writing to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331, or visiting theChristianrealview.org. Confusion characterizes our world, or maybe delusion is a better word, in that people are deluded by others or just self-deceived or self-deluded. There are no shortage of so-called experts, whether politicians, scientists, teachers, professors, writers, speakers, journalists, analysts, commentators, influencers, and, yes, Christian leaders.
They all make confident assertions about all matters of life and faith. So if you're pondering what is going wrong in the world, you will hear all kinds of responses, quote, racism, inequality, lack of education, capitalistic greed, or moral corruption, and many more, with all manner of proposed solutions, mostly promoting some new government program or law or new political leader. Now, despite all the talk, confusion and delusion still reign.
People don't know who or what to believe about what's going on and don't understand the root cause of the problems. Because all of Scripture is inspired by the holy and perfect God, Christians have a foundation for discerning truth from error, right from wrong, and wisdom from foolishness. Dr. Stephen Lawson, president of One Passion Ministries, expository preacher and author of New Life in Christ—What Really Happens When You're Born Again and Why It Matters, joins us this weekend on the Christian worldview to discuss what is going on in the world right now. Why has there been division over the issue of social justice within more theologically conservative evangelicals?
And most importantly, what does it mean to be born again? Let's get straight to the interview with Dr. Stephen Lawson. Steve, thank you so much for coming on the Christian worldview radio program today.
I want to get into the issue of salvation, the most important issue. But before we get to that, I wanted to ask you about a few things going on in the world, in our country, within the church. Here in Minneapolis, we really felt the effect of what occurred with George Floyd. It happened right here on our streets. And the following dynamic which took place is still taking place in our country, this explosion of critical race theory. We've seen that taking over institutions in this country in the last two or three years.
It wasn't invented two or three years ago, but it seems to have just exploded. As a matter of fact, here in Minnesota, a report just came out that the Minneapolis school district, when they have to let go of teachers, they're going to let go of white teachers first, not teachers of color. I mean, this is America.
They're actually saying these things openly. I don't know if you saw that story recently, but that's just an example of just how backwards things have become, how much things have regressed in our country with that particular topic. You look at the situation with COVID, you're well aware of what happened there with the church shutdowns, the ineffective mandates.
Take the vaccine or lose your job. You have the situation of transgenderism in this country. Now it's a full-on assault from that. We've gone from homosexuality, homosexual so-called marriage. Now it's a full push for transgenderism, little children getting surgeries that completely changed their life.
Drag Queen Story Hour brought to your local public library. This is rife within the public school system. The new Supreme Court Justice can't and won't even define what a woman is. You look at the election, the contested election in 2020, the recent raid on President Trump's home, what's never been done before of a past president, millions of illegal immigrants coming over our borders. The amount of inflation going on, the media information control, hard to find what's really truthfully taking place in the country, in the church. So I just say that as a summary, Steve, and there's a lot more than that. I was just interested to know, how do you assess what is going on right now in our country, in the world? Do you think there's been some sort of tipping point or rubicon that's been crossed in the last couple of years?
And where is this all going? Well, David, I'm very confident in the answer that I give you, that everything you just walked us through, which is nothing but depravity on steroids, is only the symptom. It's not the disease. And we tend to try to deal with the symptom and never address the disease. And the disease is there's no fear of God. The disease is there's no faith in Jesus Christ. The disease is that we have totally rejected God in this country. And so what we have sown to the whirlwind, and we are reaping the bitter harvest. What's happened is, and I would trace it back 50, 60, 70 years ago, when the pulpits of our country departed from the word of God.
And liberalism, pragmatism, every ism that you can think of began to be put forth from pulpits as it was taught in seminaries. And so there is no restraint now. It's like America is a car where the gas pedal is stuck in full acceleration mode, but there is no brake.
There are no brakes and there's no steering wheel. And so we have no moral guidance whatsoever. And so we really have become a nation by and large of reprobate minds. I mean, we're living in the midst of Romans 1, 18 to 32. And this is really the judgment of God upon America and the judgment of God upon the world. For abandoning Him, God has turned us over to our own ways. If you had asked several years ago, you know, how would you identify a woman?
How would you identify a man? It would be laughable. It would have been laughable for someone to hear the answers that are now being given. And it's like, you know, the frog and the kettle, it's been slowly cooking to the point now we wake up and there are just no moral restraints whatsoever. And so even evangelical pulpits have become soft, have become effeminate, has lost its will, has lost its fire.
And I just read J.D. Greer, one of the past presidents of the Southern Baptist Convention, calling for preachers now to use different pronouns from the pulpit so that we don't hurt people's feelings, their little psyches, as if somehow we can build a bridge to them. And all we're doing is just waving the white flag of surrender for the cause of God and Christ and the truth.
So these are the best of our leaders. This is a very recent president of the Southern Baptist Convention saying that we need to now just give up and no longer preach repentance and no longer call a man a man, no longer call a woman a woman, and to be just a part of this slippery slope and this downhill slide into hell, really. So that's where we are. And we can run around and try to put out all these little brushfires on this and that and this and that and this and that.
The social justice is really just the result of no gospel preaching, no calls for repentance, no preaching of the lordship of Christ, and just caving into the culture and all the demands around us to try to maintain some sort of peace with the devil himself. So, I mean, that's where we are, David. And we can talk about all these little things that you just listed, but those things are not going to go away.
Those things are only going to exasperate. And the next thing we're going to do is have people being married to animals or something like that. There's no end to this until God, really the fear of God and a moral compass is put back in its rightful place. And this has to start with the pulpit. And when you just have weak preaching in pulpits, it produces really unconverted churches where people may attend but do not know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, where people are more concerned with being conformed conformed to the world than being conformed to the word.
That's where we are. So, you know, just as a side note, David, that's why my ministry is so focused on training men to be Bible preachers, because if you only had one bullet to fire, where would you fire it as a Christian to be most effective? It would be to fire it at the pulpit, because as the pulpit goes, so goes the church. And as the church goes, so goes the culture and the world. So the churches are no longer light and salt. The churches have really just become a part of the problem. And the only way to turn this thing around is for God-called men to preach the full counsel of God, to blow a trumpet in Zion.
And, you know, this has reached a point now where it's almost like trying to dam up Niagara Falls with toothpicks. The momentum that has built from the world is like a tsunami that's flooding our entire country and overwhelming us. And the only way to change it is for people to be born again, is for there to be a great awakening in our country again, and for people to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. And that will never happen until there is first conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment for people to repent and to turn from their sins and to turn to God and embrace his son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and to become a new creature in Christ Jesus. And let me say this, David, democracy cannot work apart from the gospel. If you have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, if the people are reprobate, then that's the worst form of government there could be, where you really turn the control of everything over to the prison or the insane asylum. And the only way for there to be a government of the people, by the people, and for the people that works, is when the people are righteous. And Proverbs 14 34 says, righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Well, we have become a people heavy laden with sin and a total incapacity to think at the most basic elementary level.
I mean, if you don't even know if you're a man or a woman, it's impossible to think of a more insane place to be that you can't figure it out, or you're supposed to be something else. That's just a reprobate mind. And the only cure, there is no political cure for a spiritual problem. There is no financial or sociological cure for a spiritual problem. There is only one cure for a spiritual problem, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ, and for people to be born again and become a new creature in Christ and the old things to pass away and new things to come. That's the only way to reverse the curse of what we see taking place all around us.
And so where this all leads, it's only going to become worse and is becoming worse. We're just a lawless, godless people until the gospel does its work, and the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. And so we don't need to change the facade of our country.
We don't need to rebrand ourself. We really need to be reborn is what we need to be. And that's the only hope. That's the only way that'll work. And our country was founded in the flames of the Great Awakening with George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards preaching, you must be born again, up and down the eastern seacoast.
And approximately a tenth of our population was converted in the 1730s and 1740s, and it really sent a wave of godliness through the colonies, and there were so many new churches that were spontaneously birthed as a result of that. That's the only hope. I mean, we're on life support right now as a nation, and it's not just us. I mean, Canada's on life support.
England, Scotland, for heaven's sake, Germany, I mean, China. I mean, we can just go around the globe, and we are at a time in which nations are headed for the grave and are on life support. There's only one solution, only one solution, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So you've asked a question, you've been kind to let me give you this longer answer, and I need to let you follow back up with another question. But let me just summarize by saying, you know, we can deal with symptoms. We can talk about symptoms, and we've got to fix the school system here, and we've got to fix, you know, the bathroom situation there and, you know, mass murders and, you know, Trump being raided, etc., etc.
These are all just symptoms. There's only one disease, and that disease is sin in the heart, sin in the lives of people, and it's exasperated by the devil himself. And there's only one cure to this disease, and it's a malignant disease that is spreading to every part of our nation from the White House all the way down to the basement. There's only one cure for the insanity that is going on around us, and that is for the gospel of Jesus Christ to do its work. And David, I'll say this as well, is the gospel can do its work. The gospel is more powerful than the power of sin. It delivers far more than what all the government programs and on and on and on can deliver.
The gospel addresses not superficial needs, it addresses true needs, needs in the heart. And that's the only way to turn this around. You know, it's almost like water flowing into the bathtub and it's overflowing. Either you can get a bucket and try to shovel it out, or you can just turn the spigot off. Right.
How much easier is it just turn the spigot off and stop all of the water flooding the house? So the only way to address this is to turn the spigot off of sin. And there's only one message, only one truth that can stop the backed up sewer of sin that's flooding our country. And that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen. So that's the answer.
And I'm more than confident that everything that I just said is accurate and correct. And so it's a get right with God time. It's a come to Jesus time in our country. In our country.
Otherwise, it's a go to hell time for our country. Well, Steve, I'm glad to give you all the time you needed to answer that question, because it was a powerful, truthful, and biblical answer to the question. And the answer is one we all need to hear and the broader society needs to hear. And there's a call now for us as believers to take what you just said about proclaiming the gospel and be doubly serious about doing that within our own spheres of influence.
So thank you for that answer here today. Dr. Stephen Lawson with us on The Christian Real View. He is the president and founder of One Passion Ministries. This ministry is dedicated to helping raise up biblical expositors of the word to bring about a new reformation in the church. We are featuring Dr. Lawson's book today, New Life in Christ, What Really Happens When You're Born Again and Why It Matters. This addresses the most important issue of all the issues to understand what it means to be born again. This book is for a believer to better understand the gospel of Christ and for a non-believer to understand and believe in Christ.
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It's 264 pages, hardcover, and retails for $24.95. To order, go to thechristianrealview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Welcome back to The Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website thechristianrealview.org where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter.
Order resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Now back to the interview with Dr. Steven Lawson. Steve, you mentioned this issue of social justice in this division, and you've been very right there on the inside of it. You've seen it from the inside, that it's divided the more conservative end of evangelicalism because of this issue of social justice. I mean, you look at Shepherd's Conference.
You've preached there for many, many years. The speakers in that conference, you know, whether people want to admit it or not, there's been a change that's taken place. You know, the Shepherd's Conference used to be you and John MacArthur and Vody Baucom and Al Mohler and Mark Dever and Ligon Duncan and others, and now it's very different. There's been a division over this issue of how to deal with this issue of social justice. Mohler, Dever, and Duncan no longer speak at the Shepherd's Conference, but you do, along with John MacArthur, Vody Baucom, and several others from either the Master's Seminary or Grace Community Church where MacArthur pastors. I don't want to spend the whole program on this issue, but I just wanted to know from someone on the inside, how do these men look at this same issue and just come to different conclusions on it?
I don't know that I have the answer to that completely, David, and these men that you just listed are all friends of mine to a different degree and people that I know from well to not as well, but they're all men that I love and cherish their friendship, and if I saw them walk up, I would walk across the room to shake their hand and would want to fellowship with them. So yes, there has been a continental divide that has taken place, and I think to take a step back, I think it's how there has been a response to what has plagued our nation, and in some ways, depending upon who you are and where you live, there has been racial prejudice in our country, really an enormous amount. I grew up in the South. I was in Memphis the day Martin Luther King was assassinated. I've grown up with all of this, going to restrooms where one is a white restroom, the other is a colored restroom. I grew up getting on public buses and riding to school where African American people sit in the back of the bus.
I sit in the front of the bus, only because I'm told to sit there. So it's a response to that, which was evil, which was wrong, and so how do we address that? Well, I can't answer for all the people's names that you just listed, and there's more.
I really can't, and don't want to put anyone in a bad light that's not really them. But I think some have felt guilty about growing up in the South, especially, and being apart, whether you were in elementary school or junior high school, when this was going on, a sense of guilt, and now wanting to rectify and to counterbalance that. And so I think, with good motives, trying to almost do what's right now. And the problem is the social justice is really just the social gospel warned over, and it's not going to cure really anything until the heart is changed. I mean, you can have all kinds of programs and rallies and burn down cities and kill policemen and just on and on, but that's not going to change the human heart.
There's only one thing that will change the human heart, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And in reparations, I mean, where do you even stop with this? I mean, David, I'm one sixteenth Native American Indian.
I may be one thirty-second, I don't know if I'm thirty-second or sixteenth. My great-great-grandfather was the chief of, I think, the Creek Nation. I mean, his portrait hangs in the Oklahoma and Alabama Capitol buildings. I mean, where does the reparations stop? Does it flow then from the African American community to the Native American community?
What about the Chinese people during World War II or the Japanese people in San Francisco, et cetera, in World War II? I mean, there's just no end to the injustices that have taken place in America. However, it's taken place everywhere. And so these things are not just unique to America. I mean, we can look at Germany pre-World War II. So there's only one solution.
I want to come back to this. And it is for the gospel of Jesus Christ to be preached, not the social gospel. And I really think, David, that all of the prejudice that took place at the beginning of the 20th century, throughout the 20th century, it really should have been addressed from the pulpit.
It should have been stopped. There should have been church discipline. There should have been white people put out of churches for their prejudice against people of another race or color. And so it's because, I think, the preachers of this country failed the churches in which they preached and really were a part of the problem. And it calls into question, if you read 1 John about loving the brethren is a true test of being a true believer, it calls into question even the salvation of so many prejudiced white people. It's not just that they were off on their race relations.
They were off on their relation with God. And so we're trying to sort all this out now downstream. And now there's counter prejudice coming from the other direction, that we're going to kill white people, we're going to fire white people, et cetera, et cetera. That doesn't help anything. That doesn't do anything. That only exasperates the problem. It only pours more gas on the fire that's already burning. So there needs to be really a true spiritual revival that would sweep through the churches of our country and then spread to the lost people in our country and for people to really get right with God. And really just trying to force some political, vocational, sociological solution onto this is really just like rearranging the furniture on the Titanic.
It's not going to stop the downward slide. So that's my understanding of this. I know others would hold to a different assessment. Yeah, I do preach for John MacArthur, who I love dearly. Grace Community Church has about 19 people groups in it. It's not in the deep south like where I grew up. And so it's kind of hard, or it's harder, for them to understand some of what's this about going on in the south.
Though I know you've got racial problems up in Minneapolis, where you are, so it's not restricted to the south. But I think if you're born again, according to 1 John 2, 3, and chapter 4, if you're born again, you're going to love the brethren, whoever those brethren are, whatever the color of skin they are, whatever their economic background is, you're going to love them. Amen. And you're not going to hate them.
You're not going to reject them. And that's where the pulpits of our country have really just capitulated and caved in to the agenda. But to get onto another train to try to solve this is going down the wrong track with the social justice and social gospel. There's only one gospel, let's be just crystal clear about this, and it is the saving gospel of Jesus Christ. And if you're born again, it will dramatically change how you interface with other believers, whatever color they are, and it will dramatically change how you interface with the world as well.
I mean, Jesus did say that we are to love all people. So we need a tsunami of really authentic Christianity, not churchianity, not cultural Christianity, but true Holy Spirit-generated Christianity to take place in our country. And are we past the point of no return?
I have no idea. As long as there's God, there's always hope. But it will take a monumental divine intervention to reverse the direction of what we see taking place. And I will remind us that the Bible says that at the end of the age, I mean, there is going to be a wholesale apostasy that will take place. The world is not getting better and better according to Scripture. The world will get really crashing down toward the end in a time of great tribulation. And who knows what we are about to witness before our very eyes? And that is really the result of a previous rejection of God himself, just an utter complete despite of God's word, of God's truth. And God then will turn a people over to their own ways and even give them a shove in the direction that they have chosen to go. I fear that that's where we are. As long as there's God, there's always hope. But this thing has gone long past putting a Band-Aid on cancer. This thing has gone way past just some little social reaction or activity take place out there. We need a spiritual soul-searching and transformation from the inside out to take place in the white church and the black church and whatever church to stop looking for pragmatic, horizontal, man-made solutions to fix a vertical, eternal problem, which is a defiance of God and his word.
So that's just my read on it, and I'm sure I would get a lot of pushback as a result, but that's all right. So did Jesus. Well said, Dr. Stephen Lawson with us here today on the Christian Rule View Radio program.
We need to pause briefly for some ministry announcements. Dr. Lawson's book, New Life in Christ, What Really Happens When You're Born Again and Why It Matters, is our new featured resource. It addresses the most important issue to understand what it means to be born again. This book is for a believer to better understand how we have been saved the gospel of Christ and for a non-believer to understand the gospel and the way to believe in Jesus Christ.
The book is 224 pages, soft cover, and retails for $16.99. You can order a copy for a donation of any amount to the Christian Rule View. Order at our website, thechristianruleview.org.
Calling us toll free at 1-888-646-2233 or by writing to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. David Wheaton here inviting you to the Christian Rule View golf event on Monday, September 19th at Woodhill Country Club in Wysetta, Minnesota. This is a rare opportunity to experience Woodhill with its immaculate condition, challenging greens, and beautiful setting all in support of the Christian Rule View Radio Ministry. Your registration includes lunch on the lawn, practice range, player gift, and 18 holes with cart followed by appetizers and awards. Make a hole-in-one on number 16 and you'll take home a brand new Chevy. Bring your foursome or we can fit you into a group.
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It's 264 pages, hardcover, and retails for $24.95. To order, go to thechristianruleview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for joining us today on the Christian Rule View. I'm David Wheaton, the host. Just a reminder that today's program and past programs are archived at our website, thechristianruleview.org.
Transcripts and short takes are also available. Now back to the interview with Dr. Stephen Lawson. Steve, let's move into what you have repeated about five times in what you've already said, that the only solution is for people to come to believe in and follow the gospel of Jesus Christ. So we're featuring one of your more recent books titled New Life in Christ, What Really Happens When You're Born Again and Why It Matters. This is the most important question that needs to be answered in all of life, more important than any of those current events I mentioned earlier, because it's, you know, what can I, as a sinful man, alienated from God, what has God done to provide one way for me to be reconciled to Him? That is the question in life. I think I stole that question from you, because I've heard you sort of preach that question.
But it is the most important question. And you write about, in this book, based on the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus, who is a Pharisee, the religious leader of his day. He was a ruler of the Jews, it says in John chapter 3, and listeners can read this.
And I'm just going to read the first sentence or two. Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can do these signs, the miracles he was doing, that you do unless God is with him. And then Jesus responds by answering a question that he didn't even ask. It says, Jesus answered and said to him, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
And then they go on to have more conversation just for the sake of time. I won't read it right here, but you've talked about what the gospel is. People must repent and believe in the gospel.
That would change everything. There needs to be a supernatural revival of God in people believing the gospel. The question is, well, what is the gospel then? What must take place, occur for someone to do what Jesus said there? Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God because there's lots of versions and interpretations of that.
I hope we have a little chance to get into the difference between the idea of lordship salvation and more free grace theology. Let's start though with what Jesus means here by you must be born again. Well, to be born again really means for the life of God to be in the soul of a man that previous to the new birth, every person physically born into this world is born spiritually dead. They have no spiritual life. They are separated from God. They are aliens and strangers to the promises of God.
They do not have God in their life. And the only way for there to be new life, spiritual life, eternal life to be in them is for them to be born again. And so that's the miracle of the new birth.
It's the greatest miracle that God ever performs. And it's when a person becomes a new creature in Christ Jesus, they have a new mind, a new heart, a new disposition, new priorities, new attitude, everything top to bottom is new now on the inside at the very deepest level. Now, David, what we need to understand is no one will ever be born again until the word of God is first sown into the soil of their heart.
And God causes that seed to germinate and to bring forth new life. There is only one active agent in the new birth and that is God. There's nothing that you could do to be born physically and there's nothing that you can do to be born spiritually. The new birth is not a partnership with God and man.
It is God and God alone. No one can birth themselves into the kingdom of God. And the moment someone is born again, that immediate moment, the Holy Spirit gives the gifts of repentance and faith and they instantly, immediately call upon the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior to save them. So, the new birth, that's God's work. Conversion is man's response to God's work. And so, what must a person do to be born again?
There's really nothing you can do. It's what God does in the soul where the word of God has first be sown in. So, the only thing you can really do is to be exposed to the truth of the word of God and to seek the Lord with all your heart and seek him while he may be found and for the wind of heaven then to blow into that person's life. We are responsible to believe in Jesus Christ. But even belief, saving faith, is the gift of God.
No one can believe until God first gives the gift of saving faith and enables a person to call upon the Lord. So, salvation is best summarized in Romans 11 36, for from him and through him and to him are all things. So, God is the author of salvation. God is the executor of salvation. God is the purpose of salvation. And salvation is really to be saved from God, by God, for God.
We are saved from God's wrath, by God's grace, for God's glory. And that's what salvation is. And so, as people are listening right now, the only thing that you can do is to believe upon Jesus Christ.
John 3 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him would not perish but have everlasting life. So, the only thing you can do is commit your life to Jesus Christ, to surrender your life to Jesus Christ. And you must do so as Jesus is Lord. You must recognize that he is Lord over your life. Romans 10 and verse 9 says, if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
I mean, there's no escaping that. Anyone who truly believes in Jesus Christ will confess that Jesus is Lord with sovereign authority over your life and that you humble yourself and surrender your life to the lordship of Jesus Christ. You don't make Jesus Lord. You only recognize that he is Lord and submit your life to him.
And that is involved in saving faith. Jesus said, except a man deny himself, take up a cross and follow me, he cannot be my disciple. And so, you must come to the end of yourself and deny yourself. Deny that you are in control of your life anymore. Deny that you're running your life anymore.
Deny that you're going to operate off your agenda for your life. You must deny yourself and take up a cross. A cross is an instrument of death. A cross is the first century version of the electric chair of the gas chamber.
I mean, you must die to self and come to the end of yourself because you're the problem. And then take the decisive step of faith and begin to follow Jesus Christ. So, saving faith is not passive. It is active.
It is dynamic. It is decisive. And you take that step of faith and leave the world behind. You leave a life of sin behind. You leave a life of self-centeredness and self-righteousness behind. And you enter through the narrow gate with a decisive step of faith by which you repent of your sin. You turn away from a life of sin. And it's not easy to believe. Jesus said in Luke 13 24, strive to enter through the narrow gate. It's a Greek word, agonizomai.
You can hear the English word agonize. I mean, there's a soul searching and there is a and there is a counting of the cost of what you must turn away from in order now to follow Christ. You're not following the crowd anymore. You're not following a life pursuit of sin. You now are cutting against the grain. You're no longer walking according to the course of this world.
You've done a 180. That's what repentance is. And you have turned around and you're now following Christ on a narrow path that's headed in a new direction to a new destination. And that's why Jesus said, few are those who find it. So there must be this striving to enter through the narrow gate. It's not an easy thing to believe because you must come to Christ with empty hands and to have released your death grip upon everything that you once were holding onto.
It's going to have to go. And you have Christ in Christ alone. So, David, lordship salvation is just very simply the gospel to recognize that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. If I came and knocked at your door, David, and you said, who's there? And I said, Steve Lawson.
If you said, Steve, come in, Lawson, stay out. Well, I can't come in. It's all of me or none of me. You can't get half of me. And so to say to Jesus, yes, Savior, come in, Lord, stay out.
That's impossible. It's all of Christ or none of Christ. And all of Christ is that he is both Lord and Savior. As Peter said, this Jesus whom you crucified, God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified. And that was the message on the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2 and verse 36. God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified. It's really a joke to say you do not have to acknowledge the lordship of Christ over your life at the moment of conversion.
I mean, it's a joke that's not even funny. It's a paltry gospel presentation that really is based upon cheap grace. It's based upon easy believism. It's based upon a denial of who Jesus is at the most critical point of a person's life, their entrance into the kingdom of God.
You must bow the knee to the king in order to enter his kingdom, okay? So that's the gospel. And that's the only gospel that will save. And so that's what true saving faith is. That's why there are untold multitudes of unconverted church members who just want fire insurance but don't want to change their life, don't want to go through a narrow gate and down a narrow path. They want to continue to live the broad path and have everything their way. And they are self-deceived concerning their relationship with the Lord.
Yeah. Steve, just on a personal note, the reason that you have impacted my life so much and those who I love is because of your clear and bold preaching of the gospel you just presented. So I just want to thank you so much for answering God's call and your obedience to mining out and clarifying.
The gospel is there, but it's so obfuscated in so many ways by so many people. And just bringing out the clarity of what it means to be a Christian, thank you for your faithfulness in doing that and all your preaching over the years that has impacted my life and many, many others. Thank you for coming on the Christian Real View today, all of God's best to you, your wonderful wife and family, and your one passion ministries as well. Well, David, thank you. It's always a joy to be with you. I count you a friend, and I'm grateful for your life and your ministry and how God is using you.
To God be the glory, Steve. Thank you so much for coming on the program. Well, we hope you gained from today's conversation with Dr. Steve Lawson.
If you missed any of it or would like to hear it again, we'd encourage you to do so. Go to our website, thechristianrealview.org, or you can always find The Christian Real View on your podcast app on your phone, where you can subscribe for free. The preaching and teaching of Steve Lawson has deeply impacted my Christian walk and worldview, going all the way back to when I first heard him give a message entitled Bring the Book about 15 years ago at the Shepherds Conference. He has a high view of God, high view of Scripture, and he's relentless on proclaiming the Gospel, which is the only answer, the one way that sinful man can be reconciled with holy God. And so we encourage you once again to order his book, New Life in Christ, What Really Happens When You're Born Again and Why It Matters. It's 224 pages, soft cover, and retails for $16.99. You can order a copy for a donation of any amount to The Christian Real View.
Our information ordering will come up immediately following today's program. Romans 10, 9, and 10 say, well-known passage, The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. That is the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. You know, the demons believe in who Christ is, as do many people. They believe he's the Son of God.
But intellectual belief doesn't save you. True Christians, those who are born again, not only believe in who Christ is, that he's the Son of God, but they trust in, they put their faith in, his substitutionary sacrifice on the cross on their behalf as satisfying God's wrath and justice over their sin. And also, they surrender to him as Lord. Thank you for joining us today on The Christian Real View radio program. In just a moment there will be all kinds of information on this listener-supported ministry.
Let's be encouraged. We do live in a challenging and fallen world, but Jesus Christ and his word are the same yesterday and today and forever. So until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, and stand firm. The mission of The Christian Real View is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.
We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out What Must I Do to Be Saved?, go to thechristianrealview.org or call toll-free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Real View is a listener-supported, non-profit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Real View partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianrealview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Real View.
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