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God’s Call for Men

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
August 27, 2022 8:00 am

God’s Call for Men

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

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August 27, 2022 8:00 am

GUEST: TRAVIS ALLEN, pastor, Grace Church (Greeley, CO)

As our society rejects God, so it rejects God’s call for what a man is to be. The biblical call for men to be providers for their home, loving leaders of their wives and children, and strong and courageous in word and deed is misrepresented as “toxic masculinity”, “sexist”, and “patriarchal”. Even when a man offers sound advice and direction, especially to a woman, it’s criticized as “mansplaining.”

Add to this the influence of feminism and homosexuality in our culture and the impact is seen all around us today—men who have no idea what God calls them to be.

God created men and women of equal value and yet with certain character qualities and roles which are to be more prominent depending on whether male or female. This is a complementary design by God, resulting in joy for us and glory for Him.

Travis Allen joins us this weekend on The Christian Worldview radio program to discuss God’s call for men. Travis is pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, CO, married with five children, and served in the U.S. Navy as a member of the SEAL teams. But as you will hear, it’s not one’s ability to fire weapons or fast-rope from a helicopter that makes a godly man but rather allegiance and obedience to Christ and His Word.


God's Call for Men. That is the topic we'll discuss today right here on the Christian Real View Radio Program, where the mission is to sharpen the Biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Real View is a non-profit, listener-supported radio ministry. Thank you.

Thank you to you, our listeners, for your prayer, encouragement and support. You can connect with us by calling our toll-free number, 1-888-646-2233, writing to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331, or visiting our website, As our society rejects God, so it also rejects God's call for what a man is to be. The Biblical call for men to be providers in their home, loving leaders of their wives and children, and strong and courageous in word and deed is misrepresented as, quote, toxic masculinity, or sexist, or patriarchal.

Even when a man offers sound advice and direction, especially to a woman, it's criticized as mansplaining. Add to this the influence of feminism and homosexuality in our culture, whether in media, pop culture, fashion, and the impact is seen all around us today—men who have no idea what God has called them to be. God created men and women of equal value and yet with certain character qualities and roles which are to be more prominent depending on whether male or female.

This is a complementary design by God, resulting in joy for us and glory for Him. Travis Allen joins us today on the Christian Worldview radio program to discuss God's call for men. Travis is pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado, married with five children, and served in the U.S. Navy as a member of the SEAL teams. But as you will hear, it's not one's ability to fire weapons or fast rope from a helicopter that makes a godly man, but rather allegiance and obedience to Christ and His Word. Before we get to God's call for men, I asked Travis to follow up on an issue we discussed recently with Steve Lawson about the issue called Lordship Salvation.

In other words, to be born again, must one simply believe in Jesus, or must Christ also be followed and obeyed as Lord? Let's get to the first segment of the interview with Pastor Travis Allen. Travis, it's so good to have you back on the Christian Worldview radio program.

We're going to talk about a few topics today, but one is a follow-up on a recent conversation we had with Steve Lawson. And he had mentioned during that interview about the issue of the gospel and salvation, when one comes to repent of their sin and believe in Christ as Savior, that means that Christ is also the Lord of your life as well. And that brought up a bit of a debate that's been going on.

I think it raged particularly more hotly, shall we say, maybe 20, 30 years ago, but it's still there. And it's about the difference between those who believe in Lordship Salvation versus those who believe in what's called Free Grace Theology. And I don't want to misrepresent either side of this, but I'd like you to clarify this a little more.

And so I went to the website, which just gives one-page answers to common questions. And I looked up both sides of this issue, the Lordship Salvation side and the Free Grace Theology side. And here's how they describe the Lordship Salvation side. They said, the doctrine of Lordship Salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand in hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship Salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called Easy Believism or Free Grace Theology.

Again, we don't want to mislabel anyone, that's just what they said here. Or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts. So I think a well-known proponent of Lordship Salvation would be John MacArthur. He wrote the book The Gospel According to Jesus, which is sort of the direct shot against more the Free Grace Theology, that Christ is your Savior and He also must be your Lord. Now the article on the Free Grace Theology said, the basic teaching of that is responding to the quote, call to believe in Christ through faith alone is all that is necessary to receive eternal life.

This basic simple belief brings assurance of entering the kingdom of God. Then if a person further responds to the call to follow Jesus, he becomes a disciple and undergoes sanctification. And I think, again, a prominent figure, pastor, who was more on this side of the issue was Charles Ryrie with the Ryrie Study Bible. My first question for you is, what is the crux of the difference between Lordship Salvation and Free Grace Theology? David, that is a perennial debate, and no matter where it springs up within the realm of Christianity, popularly understood, the one you're describing from 20, 30 years ago cropped up within the dispensational camp. But even since then, there has been, with Tulia and Chividion and some of the radical grace teaching, it cropped up also in Presbyterian circles. So this is not denomination specific. The crux of the issue really has to do with who is Jesus Christ and is He the authority or is He not?

And so I think the crux of the issue is authority, in particular, the authority of Jesus Christ. There is no coming to Christ on one's own terms. You come to Christ on His terms. And so Jesus said, if anyone come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. So Luke 9 23, when you deny yourself, that means you basically refuse to associate with yourself anymore. Everything that you were in your unregenerate, unredeemed state, all your dreams, hopes, ambitions, all your desires, you refuse that anymore. That is no longer the authority in your life is who you are, who you were.

It's now all Christ. He's calling you. He says, if anyone come after me, let him deny himself.

That's the first thing. But secondly, it's clear if there was any question, he makes it clear when he says, deny yourself and then take up your cross. People who were listening to him on that occasion, when he spoke that they could call to mind when they, whether children, adults, people in their older ages, they could remember lines of prisoners carrying the cross beam, the patibulum, to the place of crucifixion.

Lines of criminals are insurrectionists with their cross beam on their shoulders walking to the place of execution. That's what Jesus is saying. I'm walking to the cross, I've got my patibulum on my shoulders, and I'm calling you to get in line after me.

You know, walking my steps, and the goal is death to self. So, deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me implies that the death to self is going to result in a new life, a changed life. There is following Christ after death to self. And so it's the life of Christ that we'll be living. We embrace him on his terms. There's no bifurcating Christ into Savior on the one hand and Lord on the other as if you accept one and then can reject the other. He is Savior and Lord.

It is who he is. David, I don't know if you remember this, but in my own testimony of conversion, this was the issue for me. I hadn't heard of this debate in evangelicalism or anything.

I mean, I was a young guy, just before I turned 20. But I started to become convicted over my sin, so I pulled out my Bible to verify if I understood this gospel that I'd been taught when I was growing up and needed to wrestle with the truth of it all. But it very quickly answered the questions about, is this what the Bible's teaching?

Is this what the Bible's saying? I understood the gospel, God's holiness. He's holy and I, in contrast, am sinful.

And because of my sin, I'm heading for eternity in hell. But God, in his kindness and his grace, he sent the second person of the Trinity, his son, to take on human flesh. He was conceived miraculously in the Virgin Mary's womb and born in a natural way, lived a natural upbringing apart from any sin, no sin, conducted a three year ministry, and then he died for the sins of all who believe.

He was buried, he rose from the dead, he preached to his people, and then he ascended into heaven 40 days later, and he's there at the right hand of God now. I understood all of that. I understood that the call to salvation means to repent of sin and put faith in Christ. The next nine months though, after verifying that for myself, was a struggle with the issue of lordship. I knew that if I embraced Jesus Christ as my Savior, that meant that he's in charge.

If he dies on the cross for my sin, he gives up his own life for me, how can I withhold my life as I claim his benefits for myself, but then withhold all that I am? So I realized and I struggled with that clear issue of lordship and authority in my life. I realized that embracing him meant embracing him for who he is, and he is Lord of the universe, Lord of all creation, and he was to be Lord of my life. And so after nine months of struggle, I eventually bowed the knee and embraced Christ. By God's grace, I embraced him. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Travis, thank you for explaining the doctrinal basis for lordship salvation, but also sharing your own personal salvation story as well and how lordship salvation was the issue there.

And as you were talking, I thought back to my own life and it was the exact same issue for me. I believed in Jesus growing up, but he certainly was not my Lord until I was about 24 years old, when I understood that I was a sinner and alienated from God and I needed to repent of my sin and not only believe in Jesus as Savior, but I needed to surrender to him as Lord. I needed to get off the throne of my own life and he needed to take his rightful place there. I think that's when I was truly born again.

Let me follow up to that question then. When you were talking about that, the issue of you knew Christ needed to be your Lord. He needed to be the master, the sovereign reigning on the throne of your life, so to speak, rather than you. So the follow-up question is, were you a true believer? You said you grew up, you heard the gospel probably from your parents or in church.

Do you think you were a true believer then? And just those who believe in free grace theology, we use these terms quite a bit. They'll use the term a carnal Christian or a backslidden Christian. How do we understand those terms in light of this debate of lordship salvation and free grace theology?

That's a great question. I remember growing up with that language in the churches I was attending. They would use those same terms to describe Christians who were just disobedient.

They would call them, well, that's a carnal Christian and we're praying for him. Or, yeah, I've been backslidden for six months and doing a lot of drinking and partying. And all that honestly, even as a kid growing up, it kind of confused me. I think for myself, I mean, I don't know about you, but I became a Christian. I professed faith in Christ several times in my growing up years.

I think I was baptized, well, really technically I just got wet a couple times religiously, was dunked in a tank probably two, maybe three times growing up. And honestly, my life didn't change at all. I mean, there was a speed bump there, a little bit more informing of the conscience and trying real hard to read my Bible and be a good kid and all that.

But man, it did not take. And it didn't take because truth be told, David, I love my sin. I love my sin and I want to do what I want to do.

I want to be the Lord of my life and follow my own direction, my own ways. Well, the Bible describes that kind of a person as an unbeliever. That's a person who hasn't been converted at all. One of the passages that's used as evidence, biblical evidence for a carnal Christian is in First Corinthians chapter two. In verse 12, Paul writes this, he says, Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words, not taught by human wisdom, but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

We can come back to that in a second. Then it goes on to say this in verse 14, First Corinthians two, The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for their folly to him. And he's not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

The spiritual person judges all things that he himself is to be judged by no one. So the translation I believe in the King James for the natural person is the carnal person. And that's where people say, well, Paul has in the Corinthian church, a mix of carnal Christians, and spiritually minded Christians. So the carnal Christians are those who have accepted Jesus as Savior, but they've put off the call to lordship, and they're not accepting him as Lord, but they're still saved. The spiritual person is kind of on another level, on another plane. They're the ones living the spiritual life and having victory and joy and all that. And so the spiritual person, Paul's making a distinction there.

He is making a distinction. He's making a distinction between a believer in the church and an unbeliever in the church. Says clearly in verse 14, the natural person doesn't accept the things of the Spirit of God. They are foolishness to him, folly to him. According to chapter 1, those who count the word of God, the things of the Spirit of God as folly and foolishness, they are the world. They are the ones who crucified Jesus Christ. And they are not able to understand those things revealed by the Spirit because they're spiritually discerned and they don't have a new nature.

They have not been regenerated and given spiritual life. So he's making a contrast between those in their midst who are really not regenerate and making a clear distinction between them and those who are regenerate, and those are the targets of Paul's ministry. When he says, we impart this, that is the things freely given us by God, we impart this, verse 13, in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, says interpreting spiritual truths of those who are spiritual, what it really literally says there is joining spiritual truths to those who are spiritually minded, those who are saved. So that's the text that's often used, I think misused, to support the idea of a carnal Christian. But it really has no basis in Scripture. A carnal Christian is a misnomer that's really talking about an unbeliever.

A backslidden person is just someone who's sinning and needing to repent. All of 1 Corinthians is talking about errors in the church, and if you ever have any concern about your church, troubles in the church and sin in the church, read the book of 1 Corinthians and realize that your church is not the first church of Corinth, it's the second church of Corinth. We really do receive a lot of comfort and instruction from this book, but 1 Corinthians 11, Paul's dealing with those who are coming into the Corinthian congregation, say the wealthier people who are coming in and turning the Lord's Supper into an occasion for gluttony and drunkenness and self-centeredness, and those who are maybe the poorer classes, those who are the slave classes, they're coming in and all the food's eaten up and all the wine's been drunk and people are drunk and acting folly.

It's an absolute abomination of the Lord's Table. And he says those who eat and drink at the Lord's Table in an unworthy manner will be judged. And he says that's why there are many among you who are weak and some have fallen asleep. So he's talking about some who are Christians there, and yet they're caught up in sin and they're offending the Lord Jesus Christ, and they're offending the Spirit, and because they're continuing on in that state and not repenting, God judges them. So Paul says there, look, if we are going to judge ourselves, we won't be judged.

So let's examine ourselves. Let's see if we're actually in the faith. Let's examine ourselves with regard to our sin. A backslidden, there can be those who backslide, who fall into a pattern of sin. Matthew 18, Luke 17, our job as fellow believers is to confront the person in sin and love, to call them back to a faithful way of living. And a true Christian will respond to correction, otherwise they will be excommunicated from the church after step one, two, three, and four listed in Matthew 18, 15, to 17 there. If he doesn't repent, then he is to be to you a tax collector and a Gentile. Basically, we're judging him as a church to be an unbeliever.

So there can be those who are backslidden, but I'd say it's for a brief time. And really what they need to do is stop sinning and repent. Well answered, Travis Allen with us today here on the Christian ReelView radio program. He is the pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. Their website is We also have them linked at our website, Okay, we need to take a short break for some ministry announcements.

Stay tuned. Much more coming up with Pastor Travis Allen right after this. Scripture commands that children are to be brought up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Offering biblically sound resources for children is one of our top ministry priorities. At our store at, you will find carefully selected children's Bibles and books, along with video and audio resources. Check out the Bible infographics for kids books, Little Pilgrim's Progress, and the popular Adam Raccoon set. Theo is a 15 episode video series addressing key doctrines of the faith that is a must see for children and adults. Satan and the world are bent on capturing the heart and mind of your child.

Instead, get sound resources that will train them up in the way they should go. Browse an order at or give us a call for recommendations at 1-888-646-2233. That's 1-888-646-2233 or For a limited time, we are offering My Boy Ben for a donation of any amount to The Christian Reel View. The book is the true story of a yellow lab that I had back when I was competing on the professional tennis tour.

It's about relationships with Ben, my parents, with the childhood friend I would eventually marry, but ultimately with God, who causes all things, even the hard things, to work together for good. You can order a signed and personalized copy for yourself or for your friend who enjoys a good story, loves dogs, sports, or the outdoors, and most of all needs to hear about God's grace and the Gospel. My Boy Ben is owned by the Christian Reel View.

It's 264 pages, hardcover, and retails for $24.95. To order, go to or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Welcome back to The Christian Reel View.

I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website,, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter. Order resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Now back to the interview with Pastor Travis Allen. Now, Travis, just one more question about this issue of lordship salvation. We're going to be talking about a conference series of sermons you did on the need for evangelical reformation. And I'm just wondering how significant of an issue that we're discussing here, the lordship of Christ, that if you're saved, Christ will be and must be your Lord. How significant of an issue this actually is today, whether in the evangelical movement, even beyond just the kind of the debates that's been going on, maybe in more theological circles on this, you know, MacArthur versus Ryrie or something, but how significant of an issue this is for a church to be very clear about, perhaps what this has wrought, this idea of, well, you can be saved, but you know, Christ won't necessarily be your Lord. You might be a carnal Christian. What it's done to the evangelical movement or evangelical churches?

Yeah. You know, David, it's absolutely vital that we understand that Christ is the head of the church and that we've got the right Christ, that he truly is the Lord of our local churches. Yeah, this issue came up in the Protestant Reformation. And, you know, you know, the five solas that came out of the Protestant Reformation, one of them was Solus Christus. And why, why did they need to reaffirm Christ alone?

Christ alone in distinction to what? Christ alone is the head of the church in distinction to popes and councils. Well, if we update that about 500 years and bring it into our own American evangelical world, it's Christ alone as the head of the church, not the congregation by 50% or 51% vote. That's not the direction of the Holy Spirit is a 51% vote among a, you know, a disobedient population.

It's, this is not a democracy. It is Christ alone as the head of the church and he calls the shots. And how do we know what his will is?

Well, it's very clearly revealed in scripture. And so recognizing and acknowledging his place of Lordship. I mean, if he died for the church, that means he's in charge.

He gets to call the shots. You know, it says in 2 Corinthians 11, Paul says, if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, he condemns them because he says you put up with it readily enough. And he's indicting the Corinthians on this in this regard that they are accepting a different Jesus, a different spirit, and a different gospel. Well, a different gospel is Galatians chapter one, it's no gospel at all. A different spirit is, if it's not from the Spirit of God, it's from the underworld.

It's from, it's from Hell itself. And if it's another Jesus, it's what's called a false Messiah, it's called an Antichrist. So we have got to get Jesus right. We've got to get the issue of the Lordship of Jesus Christ right. And it's absolutely crucial, considering Solus Christus, that Christ alone is the head of the church.

Every church has to get this right. So thank you for giving more clarification on that issue, Travis, and Travis Allen with us today on the Christian worldview. Now let's transition, Travis, toward really the main topic we wanted to discuss today, which is the idea of God's call for men, or biblical manhood, biblical masculinity. And there has been an attack on men in our society for the last 50 or 60 years. It's called toxic masculinity, or destroy the patriarchy. There's a diminishing putting down of men and fathers, either as unnecessary or sort of just the kind of the grown-up boys in the home.

That's what a father is. So maybe you could just set the stage and describe the arc of what has been taking place in our society over the last 50 to 60 years, or maybe longer, with regards to God's call for a man from a biblical definition. What's been going on, and why has this been taking place? When you describe the arc, I think the arc consists of a number of different influences to this—you might describe it as a war against men that's been taking place for a number of decades now. And I would just want to say very quickly, on the heels of that, that there's been a war against women, too.

There's a war against masculinity, there's a war against femininity, and you might just kind of wrap it up into one package and say, there's an absolute war against humanity going on right now. And where does that come from? Obviously comes from the enemy of our souls and the enemy of God and the enemy of all that's true and right and good, and it's the devil himself. He hates the image of God in us, and so he wants to just stamp it out, destroy it, mar it, defile it, because he hates God. He can't get to God, and so he goes after humanity. So if he can turn us against one another—men against women, women against men—if he can turn us all against the weakest and the most vulnerable in our society, which is who? It's the child in the womb, so abortion is an attack on humanity. If any of them escape the danger of the womb and start to grow as a child, well now we're going after them in society with the transgender movement and totally destroying their bodies with, whether it's chemical modification or surgical mutilation of these children, it's child abuse.

It's just destroying people. So this has been going on for a long time, and there's several ways that contributing factors, I'd say, to the ark toward this all-out war against humanity and the image of God in us. And I'd say, first of all, you can see with regard to men not taking up their biblical role to be men. Go back to Genesis 1 and 2, and we see that God designed Adam to be a leader and a teacher and a provider and a protector of his wife.

He used to be out in front. He used to be taking personal responsibility, ownership of solving problems. He used to love her by leading, love her by saying, the buck stops with me. Get a job, protect your family, take care of your family, solve problems, care for them, be gentle, kind in your leadership. And a woman by God's design in Genesis 1 and 2 is to be a fitting helper to her husband. She's there to support and to strengthen and to contribute counsel and wisdom and effort and strength to his leadership. That's what she's designed to be and to do, and that's what she thrives in doing and loves to do. And when those children come into the home, she raises those children. She has a nurturing nature where she loves them, wants to raise them, nurture them, care for them, comfort them.

Both man and woman together in that marriage then raise those children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. That's the design. So there's been, among men, there can be errors going either way. They're being too passive and abdicating their role and responsibility and giving it over to their wife or just being lazy. On the other side, the ditch that they can fall in is to be domineering tyrants in the home and not being gentle and kind with their wife.

So that's an error. Women on the other side, they don't react well to that bad leadership, whether it's a passive or domineering. So there's a rebellion that takes place. In our own day, I think coming out of two world wars, men coming back from warfare, they can throw themselves into the protector-provider role without any love and care and gentleness toward their families.

And then that means that they are commanding their wife and their children what to do without informing them biblically why to do it and helping them by teaching and by communicating and by showing, modeling by example. I think coming out of these most recent wars in modern warfare where technology has lifted to a level that many women got involved in the war effort. Many women went back into the workplace and they've started to say, because of the equalizing effect of technology, that the traditional male strengths that required their strength in the field or in the forest and hunting or raising, you know, building a farm that's no longer in the cities and the urban environment. Now, both men and women can be equally adapted programming or typing things in the computer or doing things in their office environment. And so I think there are a lot of things coming out of this in this modern age after World War II. A lot of the prosperity and a lot of the technology has contributed to an equalizing effect where women kind of think, well, what's so special about a man?

So I think there's some of those issues that have taken place. Carl Truman's recent book, The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self and the abbreviated version Strange New World. He paints a picture of an arc that's been happening for hundreds of years coming from Rousseau and through the Enlightenment and through psychology that shows people turning inward, conforming their outward reality to what their inward feelings are.

That's what he calls the modern self, the, you know, the psychologized self or the expressive individual. And so that's contributing to the whole picture as well. All of that creates a situation that has in our society tended more and more to favor women and to fight for what they call equal opportunity to elevate women and give them all the same, not just opportunities, but outcomes of men.

So pay outcomes and job opportunity outcomes and all those things. At the same time, I think men, I mean, you could see this in the sitcoms where who's the butt of all the jokes? The father, the man is the idiot and the knucklehead in the situation that brings all the comedy into the sitcom. And it's the woman who's put together and she's the one who's got all the answers. So you see this kind of war against men.

You see an elevation of women. You see this antipathy and contest and arm wrestle between them. And I think that that's contributed to a situation where even today, men are pushing back against that narrative. They are tired of having a finger wagged in their face. They're tired of being called toxic. And there's a corner of the internet called the manosphere and you have different blogs and pundits and podcasters, you know, growing long beards and, you know, flexing muscles and getting tatted up and, you know, talking about their guns and all the rest.

And they're, it's almost like they're trying to outman be even more toxic and push back against this feminized culture that we have. So it's absolutely a complete mess and such a departure from scripture. I think that that's what we in the church need to model for them is to go right back to scripture, go back to Genesis one and two to see what God said, what God designed and tried by his grace to pursue his design and to live as a biblical man and a biblical woman. Travis Allen with us today on the Christian Real View, the pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. He's not only a pastor, but he's married for many years and has five children.

He also served our country in the US Navy as part of the SEAL teams. The website for his church is, really spelled l-e-y dot org. We have it linked as well on Okay, just a short break, but we will be back with more with pastor Travis Allen right after this. David Wheaton here inviting you to the Christian Real View golf event on Monday, September 19th at Woodhill Country Club in Wazeta, Minnesota. This is a rare opportunity to experience Woodhill with its immaculate condition, challenging greens and beautiful setting all in support of the Christian Real View radio ministry. Your registration includes lunch on the lawn, practice range, player gift and 18 holes with cart, followed by appetizers and awards. Make a hole in one on number 16 and you'll take home a brand new Chevy. Bring your foursome or we can fit you into a group.

There are lots of hole sponsor opportunities as well. We hope to see you on Monday, September 19th. Registration deadline is Labor Day. To find out more and to register, visit or call 1-888-646-2233. That's 1-888-646-2233 or For a limited time we are offering my boy Ben for a donation of any amount to the Christian Real View. The book is the true story of a yellow lab that I had back when I was competing on the professional tennis tour.

It's about relationships with Ben, my parents, with a childhood friend I would eventually marry, but ultimately with God, who causes all things, even the hard things, to work together for good. You can order a signed and personalized copy for yourself or for your friend who enjoys a good story, loves dogs, sports or the outdoors, and most of all needs to hear about God's grace and the gospel. My boy Ben is owned by the Christian Real View.

It's 264 pages, hardcover and retails for $24.95. To order, go to or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for joining us today on the Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton, the host. Just a reminder that today's program and past programs are archived at our website,

Transcripts and short takes are also available. Now back to the interview with Pastor Travis Allen. Travis, you mentioned the word feminized.

This is how men have become, not all men, of course, this is a generalization, but there's been a feminization of men. And that's impacted the church, Travis, the Evangelical Church. Not only do you see just female pastors now within the Evangelical churches, Rick Warren, they just nominated a man and a woman to lead to a church. They've nominated three female elders at their church, the largest Southern Baptist church in the country, one of the most prominent pastors in the country.

This is going to become more and more common, sadly, but that is the case. You see service styles in Evangelical churches today. They are highly geared, most of them are highly geared towards an emotional experience, tweaking people's emotions, getting them to feel something. The sermons are based on, you know, felt needs that people have about their marriage, their raising kids and so forth and so on.

So it's not so much doctrinal verse by verse, hear the facts, believe it, follow it, obey, but a little more along the lines or a lot more along the lines of, you know, trying to figure out people's felt needs in a life and meeting those needs. I wouldn't even go so far to say that men are even presenting themselves in a more feminine way with the tighter pants, the softer and thinner types of clothes they wear, the hairstyle, just the way they carry themselves. It just to me looks more feminine. And the Bible is clear on this that men are not to look or act like women.

And when I say that, and when I say that, that doesn't mean that a man has to have huge biceps or be some jock athlete or shoot guns or jump out of airplanes or whatever society may have defined a man as in the past. But there has been a noticeable change. So how is this whole feminization of men impacting the evangelical churches? And apparently, they're not recognizing it.

What needs to be done to reverse course? I'd like to address it from two different sides and really not talk so much about what the external appearance looks like. Those things can change with time and culture. And we wouldn't want to say women wearing pants today, that's masculine in their cross dressing or something like that. So those things get a little bit tricky.

Just to affirm your point, David, I know what you mean. When you know it, when you see it, and you see a woman who is dressing very masculinely, and the question comes to mind, what's going on in her heart? Which direction is she thinking? By just how she portrays herself, by how she walks, by how she acts a certain way, it looks more masculine. Same thing with men. You can see a man who looks very feminine.

He's kind of lilting his way down the street. And you think, what's wrong with that guy? So I get what you're saying. And in our culture, in our society, there's different things that give an outward appearance of masculinity or femininity. Where I see this coming into the church, and into popular conversation as well, is that the feminine impulse or the feminine instinct is to soften things. That's definitely the, you know, I definitely see that in my wife and my girls is to, is in their nurturing nature is to, to care for the little ones and to care for the hurting and to put band-aids on booboos and kiss, you know, kiss it and make the child's crying to make the child feel better. And it's an immediate compassion. The masculine impulse is, you know, kid falls down and gets hurt. It's, hey, rub some dirt on it and get back in the game. That's life.

Life's tough. And there's a compassion there in the man that has a long-term compassion. So I'd say short-term compassion versus long-term compassion. That's the feminine versus the masculine impulse. You see that coming into the church and the popular cultural conversation where the feminine tendency to nurture and to soften, there are some things that need to be said that if you do try to file off the sharper edges, if you do try to make it less angular and more rounded, you actually distort the message. So there are some very strong things that Jesus has to say that need to be said in exactly the tone that he delivered them. Woe to you Pharisees and scribes, you hypocrites.

There is no softening of that. And if you have a church that can't stand hard things being said because it's been so overtaken with this, got to make everybody feel good, nurture them, make them, you know, affirm them, you're, you're actually going to be unfaithful to what the scripture teaches about who Jesus actually is. On the other side of it, if you try to inject steroids into Jesus and make him look like a gun-toting, cigar-smoking, scotch-drinking, long-bearded, you know, ex-military guy who's ready to shoot everything and take vengeance, that's also a distortion of the picture. I mean, he is the one who said, come to me all you are weary and heavy laden and I'll give you rest. Take my yoke upon me and learn from me.

If I'm gentle and humble and hardened, you'll find rest for your souls. So there's a distortion on either side. And I think that the number of decades of the feminizing to soften everything, to affirm the congregation, to affirm people and not say the hard things and the hard truths, there's been a more recent reaction against that with men who want to amplify masculine edge. And I think it just distorts the picture of Christ in another way. You know, Paul tells the Corinthian church in 1 Corinthians 16 verse 13 to 14, he says, be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. He's saying that, by the way, to a church and a church is pretty much 50-50, male and female, but he's telling the men and the women, there's a masculine virtue that you need. Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

And then the next verse, let all that you do be done in love. That has the right spirit, the right tone that brings everything together to love God and to love others. So if we want a good picture of what true manhood is, of what masculine virtue looks like, we look to Christ himself. He is the ideal man. He is the one that we all aspire to, men and women. We aspire to be like him.

We want to see less of ourselves, the death of the self. It is the life of Christ lived in and through us. That's what it is to be a Christian. And so true manhood is found in Jesus Christ. And keep in mind, Jesus Christ did not live for self. He lived for God, and he sacrificed himself for others. So loving God, loving others, that's what it is to be a man.

Okay, just a quick follow up on that. But we are to be like Christ. That is the goal of the Christian life. Well, of course, for a man to be like Christ is, he's another man. Is there any distinction between actually a Christian woman trying to become like Christ?

What should a woman look to? A woman is designed by God differently than a man. And we see that clearly in Genesis 1 and 2, in how God designed Adam to be a leader, a teacher, a communicator, to be out in front, and a woman to be his fitting helper, to serve the interests of the home, to serve the man's leadership.

That's what it is in a home, in a marriage. And because God designed it that way, God designed the man to do the things that pertain to his role. And he designed a woman to do the things that pertain to her role. So she's going to be, by nature, tend to be more nurturing and have a greater concern for short-term compassion and those kind of things. And that's exactly who she should be. She just needs to do it as a Christian. And so her love toward God and her love toward others is worked out through the life and the distinctions of true womanhood. And so there's so many passages in the scripture that address that and show a woman in her role, whether it's as a wife or if God gives children as a mother, those are primary. But we also see women who either had raised their children or God did not give children, and they're still serving the interests of others. So whether it's in the workplace or whether it's in the church, she's still serving distinctively as a woman.

It is not a liability for her to be a woman. It's an absolute privilege and a gift of God for her to be in a role as a woman. Okay, we have much more coming up with Travis Allen next week on the program as we discuss the need for evangelical reformation. He gave two messages on that topic at a recent conference that were very powerful, and we will get into that next week.

He is a godly man, and I would encourage you to connect with his preaching by going to our website,, where you will find a link over to the church he pastors, which is Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. Now, on this issue of God's call for men, we just need to go back to Genesis, to the very beginning, where God established so many things about who he is, what it means to be male and female, marriage, and so much more. Genesis chapter 2, starting in verse 15, says, Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. Skipping forward one verse, Then the Lord God said, It is not good for the man to be alone.

I will make him a helper suitable for him. So God created Adam first. He was to be a provider and a protector of his wife and his home. But Adam needed a helper, and this is not an issue of worth or value having a wife as a helper, but it's an issue of God's perfect design for marriage and family, which, by the way, then leads to societal cohesion, which is falling apart today. A biblical man is called to be a leader of his family, and some who aspire to it with the right character qualities are to be leaders in the church as well. Paul writes in 1 Timothy chapter 3 the qualifications of an elder. Just by definition, an elder in the church must be a godly man, so let's read what he describes a godly man to be. He writes, If any man aspires to the office of overseer or elder, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be—here are the character qualities—above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperant, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, contentious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.

Verse 4. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity. But if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God? And it goes on from there in the description of a godly man or elder. Whether a man is an elder or not, the lesson here is that a godly man is all about character issues, not necessarily career success, strong muscles, or athleticism.

Biblical men are to be truth speakers and truth obeyers, not truth softeners. They are to be strong and courageous, and not fear men or be moved by cultural changes or pressure. And yes, they are called to love their wives and raise their children in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Complimentary to this is God's call for women. Paul writes in Titus chapter 2, Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips, nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.

So while there are certain character qualities that men and women are to aspire to, some are to be more prominent in men, others are to be more prominent in women. God's way is the right way. It always brings us the most joy and Him the most glory. And Travis said it well when he stated that the purpose of the Christian life is to become more like Christ. So for men, read the word, to know Christ, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, strive to become more like Him.

That is what a godly man is. Now in the remaining moments, just a few comments on the issue of lordship salvation. And I want to accurately describe the non-lordship position, which is, you believe in Jesus and you're saved. Christ being Lord of your life may not come right away, but over time.

But I think that is an error. I understand the Bible to teach that unless you obey Jesus as Lord, you really haven't been saved. In a sense, the term lordship salvation is redundant. Salvation comes when one believes in Christ as Savior and Lord. Christ is Lord, whether one believes it or not. So one who believes in Christ obviously believes in and follows Him for who He is, Lord.

And there's a nuance here. Yes, belief in Christ saves you, but belief implies and includes more than mere intellectual assent to facts, as in, I believe Jesus existed, I believe He was the Son of God, I believe He died for sins and rose again. You know who else believes that? The demons all believe that and they shudder over it. But Jesus isn't their Lord, they're not saved. Obeying Christ as Lord is the key evidence of salvation. There is one throne in your heart, who is reigning there?

Is He your master, your ruler, your final authority, your Lord, or are you? Yes, the believer increasingly surrenders to Christ lordship over time, that's called sanctification. But one can't be saved without believing He is Lord of all and Lord of your life. Not adding to the gospel, that is the gospel.

And as I mentioned earlier, that was my own story. I believed in Jesus when I was young, but Christ was not the Lord, the master of my life until I was 24 years old when I realized my sinfulness and I believed in Him. And I knew the crucial hinge point was to obey Him as Lord.

That is the hard part. I knew I couldn't do what I wanted, that I couldn't be my own Lord going forward, that Christ needed to be the Lord of my life. And the more I heard Steve Lawson and Travis talk about this and thought about this and looked to scripture, this issue is a matter of getting the gospel right. Churches and teachers who preach belief in Jesus for salvation but don't include the call to obey Him as Lord are preaching a non-saving gospel. John 3 verse 36 states this so well, he who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. Notice how the second half of that verse doesn't repeat the word believe, but it changes it to he who does not obey the Son will not see life. So believing in Jesus as your Savior means you are committing to obey Him because He is Lord. If you are a believer in Jesus but He is not your Lord, I would urge you today to repent of that, to not only believe in Jesus as Savior but to commit to following Him as Lord. And He will help you do that because when you are saved, He gives you His Holy Spirit so that you are able to follow Him as Lord. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian Wheel of View. In just a moment there will be all kinds of information on this nonprofit radio ministry. Let's be encouraged in a world where God's call for men is under strong attack.

We know where to go for the truth. Jesus Christ and His word are the same yesterday and today and forever. So until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of the Christian Wheel of View is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.

We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out What Must I Do to Be Saved?, go to or call toll-free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Wheel of View is a listener-supported nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Wheel of View partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Wheel of View.
Whisper: medium.en / 2022-12-01 00:48:10 / 2022-12-01 01:08:13 / 20

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