Enemies Within the Church Part 1—The Call to “Mark Them”

Enemies within the church, the call to, quote, mark them. That is the topic we'll discuss today right here on the Christian Worldview radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host, and our website is thechristianworldview.org.

Thanks for joining us today and also a thank you to our national sponsor, Samaritan Ministries, who provide a biblical solution to healthcare. Just go to our website, thechristianworldview.org, to find out more. What misrepresented God and His Word to keep professing Christians from going astray or being led astray. Paul wrote in Romans chapter 16 verse 17, Mark them which cause divisions and defenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them. Today, a tidal wave of false teaching has flooded evangelical churches, seminaries, colleges, schools, and bookstores. Some of the most notable evangelical leaders are propagating a Christian sounding version of critical theory, otherwise known as wokeism.

This is the false idea that oppressive, quote, systemic injustice by whites toward blacks, men toward women, heterosexuals toward homosexuals, is the rule and reason for the ills that afflict the nation and the church and therefore, quote, equity or social justice must be pursued and enacted. A new documentary film entitled Enemies Within the Church shows just how insidious, pervasive, and destructive wokeism has become and who the main proponents are. Pastor Kerry Gordon, the executive producer of the film, joins us on The Christian Real View to warn believers and call the church to stand against this.

Let's get straight to that interview. Pastor Kerry Gordon, thank you for coming on The Christian Real View today. Let's start our conversation by just playing a sound bite from the opening to your film, Enemies Within the Church. What happened to the church, to the living, powerful, transformative, nation-shaking Christianity? What they're trying to do is completely demolish Western civilization and then to rebuild it in a just society. How do you break down American Christianity?

I think the problem today in our culture is many of our words have been co-opted and stolen and dumbed down and reversed. Social justice is sold as something that it isn't. Critical race theory is sold as something that it isn't. Whiteness has cause blindness of heart.

Whiteness has cause blindness of heart. When you preach victimization, it always leads to vengeance and vice. Us against them, me against you.

I want my pound of flesh. American churches today are where the universities were 10 years ago. Pretty heavily Marxist. They're not quite there yet, but they're well on the way. Many of the seminaries and Bible colleges are definitely already there. That message that they're going out and taking the world is not you need to repent of your sin.

Receive Christ instead. The message that you actually have is they are under the weight of racism or sexism or homophobia and that we need to unify them together. Well, Pastor Carey, that really gives a good flavor of what this film, Enemies Within the Church, is all about. And it's very comprehensive on the issues that were just in that soundbite, issues of racism, homosexuality, and transgenderism.

You're touching on all these issues that are coming, not coming, that are already inside either the church or Christian seminaries, colleges, and so forth. Tell us about what led you to produce this film, Enemies Within the Church. Thank you for having me on your show.

I so deeply appreciate it. I come from a long legacy of preachers, three generations deep. I understand ministry. I understand the purpose of the church. I understand my calling from the Lord Jesus, not only to declare the truth of the gospel, but an old-fashioned, outdated idea that you're also supposed to defend that gospel from people who pervert it. Of course, when I say outdated and old-fashioned, I'm being facetious because that's exactly what the Bible commands true ministers to do.

And that's why we made the movie. There is a false gospel that is permeating the church. When we say it's already here, it is overwhelmingly obvious if you really look at the evidence. It is in almost all the Bible colleges and seminaries.

So the next generation of ministers, my son's age, 19, 20 years old, are going to come out of these Bible schools and seminaries believing a lie. Believing the false teaching of critical race theory or the weird ideas that come from intersectionality. The list goes on and on of the subtle heresies that are being perverted. I would sum it up this way to make it very simple because it's very difficult to keep up with the glossary terms of theological leftism. They invent new words almost every week. Who has the time to follow them around and figure out what all those words mean? Let me just tell you what being woke, being intersectional, cisgendered, white privilege, racism, social justice, all these terms boil down essentially to one false teaching that is eternally deadly. And it is the idea that you teach people in the pulpit that they are great victims. They're victims of economic inequality. They're victims of some kind of mistreatment because their skin's the wrong color. They're victims because they were looked over because of their gender and a particular job they were looking for. They're victims, they're victims, they're victims.

It's the victim Olympics. The message of this false gospel is you're a victim and all of these different kinds of people from different sorts of ways of living owe you an apology because they're the cause of your victimization. So essentially you're the victim and they need to repent to you. And this is in direct contrast with the real gospel of the Bible. The real gospel says you're a villain, you're a great villain because you've committed sins and your sins contributed in some cosmic way outside of time to the murder of the very Son of God.

The Son of God was perfect. He had done no wrong, but your sins contributed to swinging the hammer that nailed him to the cross. And therefore you owe God an enormous apology.

You must repent. Now that's the difference between the real gospel of the Bible and the false gospel of this social justice garbage that is in all of our Bible colleges and seminaries. Most all.

I'd say 99 percent. And I would say to your audience, I don't care how virtuous the church you attend is. I don't care how wonderful your pastor is. Every minister in America needs to know that their own church is in jeopardy if they do not take measures right now, especially generational measures, to make sure that after they're gone, just like the apostle Paul warned, when I am gone, ravenous wolves will enter into the flock. And you've got to take steps right now to educate your congregation against this garbage, because it is coming, and it's coming after every denomination in the West. Pastor Kerry Gordon is our guest today on The Christian Real View. He's the executive producer and host of the film we're discussing today. It's a documentary, Enemies Within the Church. This has been in the works for several years, the production of this film, talking about how the woke movement, which he just described, is infecting not just the church in general. The broadest definition of the Christian church, but really getting into and infecting the evangelical side of the church, the more theologically conservative biblical side of Protestantism. We are offering this two-hour documentary film, the DVD, through The Christian Real View for a donation of any amount to the ministry. It retails for $14.95. You can get it for a donation of any amount, just go to our website, thechristianworldview.org, or give us a call at 1-888-646-2233.

We'll tell you more information about how you can get it throughout the interview. Kerry, here's another soundbite early in the film on how the view of government has changed in this country. 58% of respondent millennials, now that's young persons in their middle 20s to about 40 years old, right in there. 58% of them said they did not want free markets in America. They don't want capitalism.

They overwhelmingly said they preferred socialism, fascism, or communism. You could lump all three of those categories together, they don't agree on things, but they do agree on this. They are statists. The state gives permission for the individual to exist. And what did the founding fathers believe?

They said, no, that is wrong. The individual person created in the image of God gives permission for the state to exist. So here's the question, how do you go from living in a country where a huge supermajority at one time apparently cared about what their founding fathers would think, to a great big supermajority today that firmly believed that the founding fathers were completely wrong and we need to be communists?

How do you do that in 11 years? How much do these issues that you bring up in the film that are infecting the church, how much are they downstream of this move toward a bigger government, a statist type situation in this country? They are connected, and I would describe it this way. The church, just because of its supernatural grace and the power that Christ gave his church in Ephesians chapter 4 and chapter 5, the power that the church has is nation changing. So when you see a nation changing the wrong direction, you always have to ultimately go to the theological problem first. Everything else is downstream from the church.

So ironically, here's what's happening. The church is not teaching a correct biblical worldview on Sunday, and the preponderance of the evidence is overwhelming. According to Barna Research and their most recent survey, I think it took them 10 years to come to the conclusion, less than 7% of the population of the United States of America has a biblical worldview. That means hardly anybody even knows what the Bible says or how to apply it to their lives, much less their politics and their worldview.

So this is the beginning of the problem. It's not what is being taught so much as in this case what is not being taught. Overwhelmingly, the church is silent on biblical worldview issues. Now you go from that to what are the churches speaking about who are speaking. And then you have the social justice garbage, which is contrary to a correct biblical worldview. And because people do not know what the Bible actually does teach regarding economics or race or anything else, then they fall victim to the Christian language laid over top of the Marxist ideology, the statist ideology. And they think, well, if Jesus is a socialist, I want to be a socialist because I care about people and Jesus cared about people. And this is very appealing, as you can see to that clip you just ran, to young people who are upset about all the right things but don't know what to do about the problems they see in the world. So they're probably motivated by a desire to do good and care for their neighbor, but they're being deceived very easily because the church will not address the topics that it needs to address.

When the church does address something, they do it wrong. Now add to it the overwhelming influence of our humanistic, statist government education system and you've got destruction. This is the ingredients of dynamite. We're taking it in our hands and shaking it up vigorously. It's going to blow up.

It is blowing up. And what people need is a biblical worldview. The Christian Worldview with David Wheaton returns in just a moment. The original stalwart souls who created a colony in the howling New England winter just so they could worship according to the dictates of conscience had far more influence on world history than they could have ever imagined.

You see the seeds of liberty, both religious liberty and civil liberty, and the idea of self-government and rule from within, all these are within that body of pilgrims. The proceeding is from The Pilgrims, a 57-minute documentary of the inspiring story and faith of these Christians who greatly impacted our nation. You can order the DVD for a donation of any amount to The Christian Worldview. Go to thechristianworldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331.

That's 1-888-646-2233 or thechristianworldview.org. David Wheaton here, volunteer host of The Christian Worldview radio program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay for airtime on the radio station, website, or app on which you hear the program. The primary way this expense is recouped is through listeners like you donating to the ministry or becoming a monthly partner.

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And be sure to specify in which station, website, or app you listen as that helps us decide whether to continue on a given outlet. Thank you for your support. Welcome back to The Christian Worldview. Be sure to visit our website thechristianworldview.org where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print newsletter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Now, back to today's program with host, David Wheaton. Pastor Kerry Gordon with us today on The Christian Worldview, the executive producer of the documentary film.

We're talking about enemies within the church. You'll see him in the film as well. He's really the host of it. He's a senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in Sioux City, Iowa. Again, we're offering the film for a donation of any amount through a DVD form. And you can just get in contact with us. The usual way is to order it through our website thechristianworldview.org or by calling us at 1-888-646-2233.

You can also write to us and we'll give you that address as the program goes on. Let's get into more of this issue of the seminaries because this is where the next generation of pastors, shepherds are being trained to come out into your local church and lead your church. The formation of their theology and worldview is coming right from there.

You emphasize this quite a bit in the film, which I think is extremely helpful, Kerry. And so this next soundbite starts out with a pastor of the bridge in New York, James Roberson, what social justice sounds like from the pulpit. And then you interview in the latter part of the soundbite a former professor from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. That's Dr. Russell Fuller, who was let go from that seminary. And he's talking about his experience with the leadership at the very top and what his experience was. So let's get to that soundbite.

We have to have a whole reorientation of the way that we do seminaries. Race must be central to understanding God in America because race is central. Racism is central to America. Racism is not a personal experience. Racism is a system that we're all experiencing.

I am feeling its detriment. White folks are feeling its benefits. There's a great book, The Color of Compromise by Jamar Tisby.

Read that. OK, I'm just going to quickly jump in to say that's what critical race theory sounds like from the pulpit. And here's what that former professor who was let go from Southern Seminary had to say about his experience there. I've seen a real shift at Southern Seminary, let's say in the last five to six years. There's been a real shift toward the left. And so, again, we have guys teaching postmodernism, social justice and, of course, critical race theory. And you hear all the buzzwords. This is coming from the very top.

So you have people like Matt Hall, who is now, you know, the second person. I mean, he's the provost. He teaches textbook critical race theory using all the buzz terms, using all the concepts, which is total heresy. You cannot take a secular doctrine, combine it with scripture without distorting and perverting the gospel. It's absolutely impossible. He'll say, I don't believe in critical race theory, but go look at the videos.

They're readily available. And by the way, in a meeting, Al Mohler himself started using the very vocabulary. And he meant it. He talked about the problems of whiteness and white privilege, white privilege.

Yeah, absolutely. And he started talking about systemic racism. And then finally, one of the last things he said, he said, Marxism has insights. And he said that, Al Mohler said this. Yes, Marxism has insights.

That's right. And remember the context. He's already using the word whiteness as if he's accepting it. At another faculty meeting earlier in that year, he said, listen, I don't agree with all the solutions that critical race theory offers for the racial problems. But they are seeing the problems correctly. Therefore, what he's saying is there's there's a problem with whiteness.

There's a problem with white privilege. He's agreeing with how they're seeing the problems of society. We need to see things.

How does the Bible see things? Not critical race theory. OK, that was Dr. Russell Fuller, a former professor of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I might say, well, of course, he's upset at the institution that used to employ him and there's no recording of this. But alas, this is his testimony.

And others have said the same thing as well. You really touched someone in evangelical Christianity here, Al Mohler, who has been sort of formally untouchable and highly respected. He's at least credited with being responsible for bringing the Southern Baptist Convention, the conservative resurgence back, I think it was in the 80s, turning that around when he first came in into position there. So I think the hard thing is for someone listening today who has heard Al Mohler on a podcast or has benefited from one of his books and hears him preach the gospel and he gets a lot of doctrines right. What do you say to the person who's listening today who has grown through someone like Al Mohler or someone else you address in the film is Tim Keller?

Very popular evangelical pastor and author. What do you say to someone who says, wait a second, these men are sound teachers. This is divisive. You shouldn't name names. I've benefited greatly from their ministry. And this is over the top. Well, I certainly understand the concern.

I share it. One of the most difficult things for me as we delved into our deep, careful, thoughtful and thorough investigation of many agencies and organizations and parachurch operations around the United States across three and a half years, one of the most difficult things for me was dealing with Al Mohler. Al Mohler is someone that I favorably cited in my own sermons. In fact, I know Al and I got to meet Al several years ago. I can't remember exactly when, but it had to do with Christian education.

And he came into our city and and was available and I ended up going to lunch at a barbecue place with him and really enjoyed it. I've read so many things in the compendium of Al Mohler's last couple of decades as a Christian thought leader. And the reason why it's difficult is because if you read so many of the things that he's written across the decades, you admire him.

Why? Because he has remained faithful to sound Orthodox Christian positions on lynchpin fundamental issues in the midst of a humanist movement in the church that wants to liberalize everything. And because he has in previous years been so faithful and so careful about his positions, it's even more painful and difficult to see when he clearly in his own words publicly unashamedly takes a very different position than the old Al Mohler. And so for the very reason that I have admired Al Mohler for so many years, that is precisely the reason why we must call Al Mohler to repent for what he has done publicly, not privately, publicly. He has taken a position where he literally repented for having held an Orthodox Christian position on the authority of Scripture over human sexuality.

And that cannot go undealt with. The worst thing you could do when a great man like Al Mohler publicly sins, the very worst thing you could do would be to sweep it under the rug, say nothing, or maybe even worse than that, defend it. And so you won't see me directly criticizing Al Mohler so much as just asking questions and getting answers.

And then everyone who watches the movie will just watch Al Mohler do what he did. I mean, it's him talking. It's him speaking. He's in front of hundreds and hundreds of people.

The video has been watched in its entirety. The sermon has been viewed by tens of thousands of people who are being misled on a linchpin issue concerning human sexuality. The Bible is very clear about sodomy. There could be nothing clearer than what is said in Romans 1. There is just no ambiguity in the scripture about the issue of this so-called sexual orientation. He has completely turned a hundred and eighty degrees on that issue.

And that issue is a major, major cause of so much pain in the United States, in family government, in self-government, and in our civil authorities, because we have destroyed marriage by redefining the terms of what's good or bad concerning human sexuality. The very reason you honored someone, because they are known to be a truth teller and to be straight with scripture, if you get to the point where you're not willing to deal with them when they no longer tell you the truth, and they're no longer correctly handling the scripture, rather than honor them for their good behavior, you've put them in a position of potential idolatry and you're beginning to defend the very thing that will destroy them. My greatest concern is for Al Mohler. I want Al to be right on this issue because I don't want him to get in great trouble with God. And so the movie is done with the hopes that not only will a good man like Al Mohler say, you know what, I really missed it. I don't know why he did it, but he did it.

And everyone can see that he did it. And Al Mohler has to repent for his public sins, just the same as everyone else does. Al Mohler is beneath the authority of the scriptures, just like everyone else is.

And it is our duty, because we care for Al and all the people who listen to Al, that he get this issue corrected and get it right. Let me just play that soundbite from Al Mohler so listeners have a chance to hear for themselves. One of the embarrassments that I have to bear is that I have written on some of these issues now for nearly 30 years, and at a couple of points I have to say, I got that wrong, and we've got to go back and correct it, correct it by scripture. Early in this controversy I felt it quite necessary in order to make clear the gospel to deny anything like a sexual orientation, and speaking at an event for the National Association of Evangelicals 20-something years ago, I made that point.

I repent of that. So there it is. Al Mohler said he once did not believe in sexual orientation, that you're born that way, but now he's repenting for saying that.

And of course this idea of sexual orientation, I was born this way, has been used as the rationale for, well, since I'm born this way, then this is the way God made me, and so therefore homosexuality isn't wrong. Exactly. And think of the consequences, brother. You know what's happening right now. I just received information on this yesterday from another minister who is very concerned. They are using the term sexual orientation as a bludgeon through the legislative process and primarily the judicial process in our courts, and they're saying that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.

Therefore, guess what happens? The same legal accommodations made for homosexuality and gay marriage, if it is true that it's a so-called sexual orientation, which by the way, the term sexual orientation is the creation of atheist people, right? I mean, this is a term that's not found in the Bible.

It's an atheistic terminology. And once you give that label to a particular deviancy, then you have to give legal accommodations to it. So right now in the church where we've accepted the term sexual orientation, you have churches falling all over themselves to say, well, we're gay friendly, we're gay accommodating.

Think of the apostasy. Why aren't we saying, hey, we're thief friendly, we're adulterer friendly, we welcome all adulterers, we welcome all the thieves. The church is not here to be welcoming towards sin. The church is here to confront sin and command sinners to repent everywhere, which is precisely the language of the Bible and the mission of the New Testament Church. So if we're gay friendly now, we're going to become pedophilia friendly in 10 years.

Why? Because of this horrible term sexual orientation. Al Mohler knows this because if you go back and read what he wrote, he was warning about these consequences for our society for accepting the term sexual orientation. He was warning us about the terrible tragedy of accepting this lie many years ago. And now he's repenting for warning us and telling us that we should all accept it.

The consequences will be normalizing sexual fetishes with children. It's abominable. It must be stopped. It's got to be rebuked. And Al Mohler has got to repent and recant.

That's the problem here. It's not just that some unknown pastor would be bad enough, some unknown pastor in some small town church. This is one of the most prominent evangelicals, just said what he just did there.

And then also on the issue of race. And I think the other thing that the film brings out really well, Enemies Within the Church, is that he presides over the, I think it's the largest seminary in the country, the largest Christian denomination. He tolerates within that seminary people like Matt Hall, the provost, and other professors that are clearly promoting critical race theory in that seminary.

Your film points out many of them. He obviously agrees with these professors, or he would have them removed and not Russell Fuller, the professor we heard earlier in a soundbite, who has been removed from Southern Seminary. Again, our guest today is Pastor Kerry Gordon, the executive producer and host of Enemies Within the Church, an excellent documentary film that's two hours long. You can get the DVD through the Christian Real View for a donation of any amount. Just get in contact with us the usual ways by going to our website thechristianworldview.org or calling us toll free 1-888-646-2233. That's 1-888-646-2233.

You can also write to us to order Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. The Christian World View with David Wheaton returns in just a moment. Recent guest Cal Beisner defines economics as moral philosophy applied to marketplace relationships. So it makes sense that as our nation's judgment of what is right and wrong has moved away from biblical morality, our economic policies have gone the same wrong direction. So what is the Christian World View on economics? Cal Beisner has written an insightful 56-page softcover booklet titled Biblical Foundations for Economics that shows how economic principles and policies need to be based on the Bible to achieve the greatest human flourishing. For a limited time, we are offering Biblical Foundations for Economics for a donation of any amount to the Christian World View. To order, go to thechristianworldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331.

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Short takes are also available and be sure to share with others. Now, back to today's program with host David Wheaton. Okay, Kerry, as the film nears the end, there is a snippet of a sermon, a fiery sermon, where you have a strong rebuke and exhortation for the church and for believers.

Let's hear that. If we would just do what the Bible tells us to do, if we would just say what it says to say, that message is so powerful, there's not an army in the world that can withstand it. There's not a nation in the world that can withstand the preaching of the real gospel.

There's not a false religion on this planet. There's not a false religion on this planet that can survive a people willing to preach the real gospel. This gospel overthrows wicked kingdoms and takes down tyrants and brings liberty out of the ground. This gospel puts joy inside of people that cannot be smashed, no matter how evil it gets in society. You can't stop the real gospel of God. The problem is not that people don't want the gospel. The problem in America is not that the gospel's too weak and the devil's too big. The problem is people won't preach it.

You substituted it with sugar. Now, that was some passionate preaching and a powerful conclusion to the film. So tell us, what is the primary purpose of this film? Is it to inform and revive the church to biblical fidelity, and or is it about quote-unquote saving America?

Or maybe it's better asked this way. What would have to happen in our society, whether in the country or the church, for you to conclude that the mission has been accomplished? Well, the greatest objective of the film is to proclaim the real gospel and to do it the way that the Bible teaches us to do it. We have a sin problem. Every problem we face in the world, whether it's a political problem, a legal problem, a government problem, a poverty problem, a race problem, all of this is because of sin. And the Bible tells us where sin comes from. It comes from us. It comes from all of us. The Bible says all of sin fallen short of the glory of God. The issue is that the modern church is not willing to confront sin.

I mean, it's just that simple. They're finding ways to talk about positive, happy things. God loves you.

Jesus loves you. And what they've done is they've emphasized truths out of the Bible at the expense of other things that they're not saying. My greatest concern is that many people that go to church, believe they're born again, believe they're saved, would call themselves a Christian, and they aren't.

They've been completely deceived. I'm concerned with the same thing Jesus warned us about. He said, on that day, many will stand before my Father and He'll say, Depart from me, for I've never known you.

You're a worker of lawlessness. And they will argue with God and say, but I prophesied in your name and I did all of these good things in your name. And what Jesus was describing was a majority of persons at the judgment who truly believed they were Christians and believed they were serving God and believed that they were serving Jesus will find out that they were fooled. And so our greatest objective is to address problems in a false gospel that is fostering that kind of terrible ending for a lot of well-meaning people that think they're born again.

And I don't think they really are. What we want is we want people to know, how do you define sin? Well, sin is transgression of the law and that's a topic nobody wants to preach on the Old Testament law. We've got all kinds of weird ideas about it, but we still need it. It's a standard. It's objective truth in the Ten Commandments.

It never changes. We identify the problem by looking at our inability to keep the law. So the law is what America needs to hear because America needs to stop being proud of their sin and be convicted for being sinners.

That's the first step. People have got to repent. So we want to convict people of their sin so that what can happen so that they can repent and find out that the solution is Jesus Christ. He came to this world. He took our punishment for our sins.

He never send himself. We put him on a tree and brutalized him until he was dead. He was buried in the ground and he rose from the dead.

He ascended on high. He's seated on his throne and he's returning again and the whole world must be brought to repentance before he returns. Because when he returns he's going to deal with sin.

So we either deal with it now or he's going to deal with it later. I want people to know what the true gospel is. I hope pastors will repent for messing this up and go back into their pulpits after watching this movie and say, I'm going to teach people the definition of sin.

I'm going to take him to the law. I'm going to preach the Ten Commandments and I'm going to get rid of this antinomian stuff and stop talking about love all the time. And I'm going to be sure that my congregation really understand what Jesus did on the cross by taking their sins and that they get repentance so that they can be born again. The wonderful news, of course, is after all those things happens, not before or after, you can't skip the step that you have to repent.

You can't skip the step of clearly defining what sin is. But once you get that dealt with, the wonderful good news of the gospel is you can be forgiven and washed clean of every horrible thing you've ever done in your life and be received by the love of God in heaven when you die. So that's our greatest goal is to restore, at least to shake people enough to get them to go back and say, what is the real gospel? What should I be preaching?

What should I be saying to my friends, family and neighbors? And if we could get that to happen, the only way you're ever going to see beneficial things in a political way and a legal way. The only way you're going to see Liberty restored in the future of this country will be only if Americans repent and get born again and start obeying the teachings of the Bible. There's no other way to save America. We have to save America by saving individual people through the preaching of the gospel. Well, that is so well said, and we are in hearty agreement with that because, you know, without regeneration, without changed hearts, you know, you're just beating your head against the wall trying to make unbelievers vote the way you want to make them vote like Christians.

They're never going to do that. So as the church becomes more influential, like it once was in this country, as the pulpit has become stronger, as you just mentioned, you know, individual lives are changed and then families are changed and Lord willing, society will change some as well. But Pastor Carey, we thank you for coming on the program today.

We thank you for all that. I mean, I can't even imagine the time it took to put together this documentary, Enemies Within the Church. The cinematography is excellent. This is a very professionally produced film, by the way.

I haven't mentioned that yet, but love the photography. It's just really well done technically. So congratulations on that. We're really proud of it. We actually did have a big Hollywood studio help produce the movie, so it is very well done.

We're very proud of that. Thank you for noticing. Even beyond what you said about the gospel, which is the most important thing, but we really hope people see this film because it's going to inform them and just give them greater direction. Just give them greater discernment to know what's going on.

It's a lot to even watch this film, even to kind of process it all. All the different angles coming in and the connections and the organizations and all the different people. You actually have a page on your website that I think is helpful. It lists some of these folks who are pushing this wokeism into the church. It's called Wokepedia on your website. We'll link that on our website as well.

I think that's helpful to have people informed about what is going on. So that's why we recommend the film. Thank you again, and we just wish all of God's best and grace to you. We're looking forward to talking to some of your other guests that you had in the film in the coming weeks. Well, thank you.

It's an honor to be with you. Okay, you've been listening to an interview with Pastor Kerry Gordon, the executive producer and host of the documentary film, Enemies Within the Church. Now, just a few follow-up thoughts on this film and this topic. Number one, this film is polemical. That means that it's a critique.

It points out error, and the error being pointed out is wokeism or critical theory. That our nation and the church is systemically unjust against blacks, women, homosexuals. And that the oppressors, whites, males, heterosexuals, need to give up power and to pay.

That's where the reparations come in. Equity, as they call it, needs to be forced—forced equality, forced equal outcomes. Now, this is a Marxist-based, unbiblical worldview that has taken captive many evangelical leaders. Now, the film doesn't address women preaching to men, and I wish it would have, because that corrupts God's design for male headship in the church and the home.

That is a big issue as well, but it wasn't dealt with, I don't think, very much at all in the film. Churches and pastors rarely do polemics today, despite the fact that there is a strong New Testament example and really command to do so. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 7, Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

You will know them by their fruits. Jesus also said in Matthew chapter 23—read that chapter sometime, it's one woe after the other on the Pharisees, the religious leaders of His day. He said to the crowds and to His disciples, The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat, so you must be careful to do everything they tell you, but do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

This is strong. Go down to verse 15, Matthew chapter 23. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites. This is Jesus talking.

You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. This is Jesus talking. This is polemics pointing out error. Paul, the Apostle Paul to Timothy, 1 Timothy 1, here's what he says to his understudy in the faith, keeping faith in a good conscience which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are, and he's going to name names, Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan so that they will be taught not to blaspheme. That's polemics, Romans 16, 17. Paul writes, Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye, or mark those, it says in a different version, who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Jesus Christ, but of their own appetites, and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting. That's why polemics are necessary right there, because those who deceive, they have smooth and flattering speech, they're great communicators, and what they propagate deceives the hearts of the unsuspecting. Look at 2 Peter 2, here's Peter writing this, But false prophets, who arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. These men do not hold back, whether it's Jesus, the apostle Paul, Peter, look at John, 1 John 4, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. That's just a sampling of verses in the New Testament that are polemical in nature.

Watch out for this, critique this, test this, mark those. So if your church and your pastor never names names and never points out error, well, the congregation people won't be warned and will be drawn away from those that are propagating heresy. And wokeism is a heresy, to be sure, for many reasons, not the least of which is that it fosters the generalized blame on people who don't necessarily deserve it, and worse, the sin of partiality or a kind of reverse racism. Or it's just blatant error, like what you hear today where Christians will say you can be a, quote, same-sex attracted Christian, as if your desires don't matter in life, it's just what your actions are. That's a falsehood that leaves people to sin within their heart. No one is above critique.

Not even the ones that we like on this program, like John MacArthur or Steve Lawson. Not even us, the Christian Real View. We want to know if we're propagating any sort of biblical error, so we can repent and return to accurately handling the word of truth. So in summary of this first point, if you as a believer or your church or your pastor never identifies or points out error or never names names because he wants to, quote, keep it positive all the time, you're not following the model of Christ in the New Testament church. That being said, on the flip side, if polemics or critique or discernment is all that your church or ministry or the person you're listening to is doing, that's wrong as well. That shouldn't be the major focus of a ministry.

There's a balance there. We need to have both, an exhortation of truth and a critique or polemic against error. That's the first thought on this film. Number two, this film, as much as we recommend it, is not going to be the be-all and end-all that's going to save the church. God will make sure the true church always has a remnant of faithful believers who will hold fast to the truth of Scripture. But what this film does is it informs and warns of what has intruded into your church, the seminary from which pastors are being produced, your Christian school or college, so that you can know about it and then respond accordingly. Number three, by recommending this film, Enemies Within the Church, that does not mean that we are necessarily endorsing the church that this came out of, Pastor Carey's church, Cornerstone Church in Iowa, or even the guests who are interviewed in the film. We don't know all of them well at this point.

I met Pastor Carey for the first time in our interview. But what we do agree on is that they have identified well what is taking place within evangelicalism. Number four, wokeism, we believe, is unlikely to go away any time soon. It has taken captive, that's a biblical term, once solid evangelical leaders.

It is almost everywhere. Now you compare that to the emergent church, remember back about 20 years ago, which became very popular and now has sort of almost gone away or morphed into something else. I'm sure all the emergent people will be very happy with the direction of this wokeism. And the final point is this, number five, that we need to be wise about our response to this tidal wave of wokeism coming into the church. There's an idea, ideology, called dominionism or kingdom now or theonomy, that the Christian call is to overtake and Christianize the institutions or the laws of government. Now we're all in favor, Christians should be, for governments to honor God through our laws. But I don't think that is the biblical purpose of the church, is to take over the institutions of society or spend a majority of our time trying to Christianize our laws. Rather, Christ gave us the purpose of the church and of believers in his Great Commission in Matthew 28, when Christ said, All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing him in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. So I think we need to be careful here and to follow what Jesus and the apostles did.

They didn't spend any time trying to transform their very godless society or the laws or the culture of their day. They focus exclusively on the spread of the good news about Christ, because they knew that that would regenerate and save individual souls, and as a byproduct of that, that would also change families and communities as well. That being said, it's still a good thing to be politically engaged, to run for your school board if that is what you'd like to do, to attend rallies, to vote, to advocate for biblical views and public policies whenever you can.

I think that's a good thing. We always need to ask ourselves, what does scripture command us to do, and what did Jesus and the apostles model for us to do? And that's clear. Our personal walk with God is a priority. The shepherding of your family, your membership and involvement in your local church, your call to evangelism and discipleship, and yes, your involvement in politics and your community. But look at the priorities.

Look where that falls in, the list of priorities. Okay, so those are just some follow-up thoughts on the film. And again, we encourage you to order it, and you can do so by going to our website, thechristianworldview.org. It's a two-hour DVD.

It retails for $14.95. We're offering it for a donation of any amount to The Christian Real View for a limited time. TheChristianrealview.org is the place to get it, or call 1-888-646-2233.

That's 1-888-646-2233, or you can write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. And all of that contact information will be repeated immediately following the program today. The film is also available via streaming download.

You can purchase it that way, too, but we don't have it available that way on our website. You can go to the film website, enemieswithinthechurch.com, if you'd like to just purchase a streaming download of the film. Next week, we're going to do part two on this topic, so we'd encourage you to tune in for that. But until then, let's remember, no matter the tidal wave of wokeism coming into the church, Jesus Christ and His Word are the same yesterday, and today, and forever. So until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported ministry and furnished by the Overcomer Foundation, a nonprofit organization. You can find out more, order resources, make a donation, become a monthly partner, and contact us by visiting thechristianworldview.org, calling toll-free 1-888-646-2233, or writing to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Worldview. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly.