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An Aged Perspective on the Country and the Church

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
December 24, 2021 7:00 pm

An Aged Perspective on the Country and the Church

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

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December 24, 2021 7:00 pm

** Rebroadcast of previously aired program 06/19/2021 **

GUESTS: Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton (David’s parents)

Our country has long commemorated one Sunday in May and in June to honor mothers and fathers. Sadly and tragically, in our day and age of social and familial transformation, mothers are now called “birthing people” (actual term from the Biden administration’s 2022 budget) and fathers are demeaned as weak and unnecessary.

To which the Bible says, “let God be found true, though every man be found a liar” (Romans 3:4 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] ).

There are a lot of news events with geopolitical, cultural, and moral implications taking place right now, but for this Father’s Day Weekend on The Christian Worldview, we’re going to focus on something more personal. My parents, Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton, will be joining us for our annual interview.

When you are 89 and 87 years old, married for 67 years and followers of Christ for 64 years, having raised four children and the grandparents of seven grandchildren, you have a lot of wisdom to share. So join us as we heed Proverbs 23: “Listen to your father who begot you, and do not despise your mother when she is old. Buy truth, and do not sell it, get wisdom and instruction and understanding.”

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This Christmas day program with my parents was here earlier this year. Happy 90th birthday dad. We are blessed of the Lord because of you agent perspective on the country in the church.

My parents joined us today here on the Christian worldview radio program this Father's Day weekend with the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news of Jesus Christ.

I'm David, the host website is the Christian worldview.our country has long commemorated one Sunday in May and one in June to honor mothers and fathers sadly and tragically in our day and age of social and familial transformation. Mothers are now called quote birthing people the actual term. The Biden administration used in this 2022. Budget and fathers are demeaned as weak and basically unnecessary to which the Bible says in Romans three verse four.

Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar that there are a lot of news events going on right now with geopolitical, cultural and moral implications. Here's a few of the stories just from this past week Pres. Biden is over at the G-7 summit of countries over in England right now. He met with Russian Pres. Vladimir Putin this week just appearing to be past his prime and his fitness for this kind of high level leadership meetings in Taiwan. The BBC reports that a record number of Chinese military jets flew into its air defense zone on Monday, the Defense Ministry said 25 aircraft including fighters and nuclear capable bombers entered at so-called air defense identification zone Beijing.

The article says views. Taiwan is a breakaway province. However, democratic Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign state.

This is an issue that's going to be, the feeling much more of a thorny issue in the coming days, especially if there's American weakness Reuters report moving over to Israel in Jerusalem that Benjamin Netanyahu's record.

12 year run as Israel's prime minister ended on Sunday with parliament approving a new government of change led by Naftali Bennett and improbable scenario. Few Israelis wants could have imagined the new government largely plans to avoid sweeping moves on hot button international issues, such as policy toward the Palestinians and the focus instead on domestic reforms. This is a major story.

We have no idea how this will turn out yet, but the fact that Netanyahu is out of power is a very significant change for the most significant nation for biblical prophecy in all of the world. Speaking of that part of the world are congressperson here in Minnesota. Johann Omar very leftist treated a video of her asking questions of Secretary of State Anthony blinking about international criminal court investigations. Omar tweeted we must have the same level of accountability and justice for all victims of crimes against humanity.

Omar wrote, we have seen unthinkable atrocities committed by not notice the moral equivalency here by the United States Hamas Israel Afghanistan and the Taliban rightly there has been outrage over this equivalency that Omar is drawing to which Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the house said people can say whatever they want what I'm saying is, Omar clarified we think her and of subject." Just look the other way when you have a congressperson in the United States equating the US with terrorist entities. We talked recently about the effect of critical race theory on our society in many different stories came out this week.

Here's one from red state that reveals a study of over 40% of teachers in this country want civics education to focus on critical race theory. This from the daily wire.

The result of this huge racial division this narrative. This false narrative being told repeated all the time in our country, a 39-year-old man accused of shooting and wounding five people in Alabama and Georgia told police his assaults were racially motivated and he was targeting white men. A detective testified basically explained throughout his life. Specifically, white males had taken from him. A detective testified on Monday. Did you even hear about that story.

Can you imagine if the scenario was flipped. We had a white man intentionally targeting five black people of the outrage would've been but I bet a lot of you had even heard that story the lie of critical race theory not only leads to attempted murder but is coming into NASA as well.

According to the Federalist NASA unveiled an initiative called quote mission equity on Monday that seeks to quote streamline its programs, procurements, grants, regulations and policies to remove systemic inequitable barriers and challenges facing underserved communities. Unquote all the cold language there, and that quote. Here's the video that NASA recently put out about this new equity mission that NASA were on a mission of equity want to have an equal opportunity and challenge and desire to learn to reach those never reached before and barriers better on this habit even NASA going walk and finally another major story from a Christian standpoint the southern Baptist picked a president this week. According to the APA who worked for racial unity.

Albert Mohler did not become the president of the Southern Baptist convention's Masaaki came in third in the voting. According to the AP.

The Southern Baptist convention tapped down a push from the right for more conservatives at his largest meeting in decades, electing a new president who has worked to bridge racial divides in the church and defeating an effort to make an issue of critical race theory very mentioning in the articles, Ed Lytton, a pastor from Alabama, 152% of the vote in a runoff against Mike Stone, a Georgia pastor backed by a new group called the conservative Baptist network. In the end the message that seem to resonate with the voters was that stone the conservative who supported a motion to repudiate critical race theory is a device of choice. Again, this will take some time to see with this new president is like from the sound of this article. It's not looking good. The Southern Baptist convention will likely continue to move in a more liberal direction on this issue of critical race theory and other issues as well that even with all those important news events taking place right now we would like to focus on something that is even more important, at least for you and your family and that is fathers and mothers. My parents Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton are joining us today for their annual interview around this time of year that we've been holding for many years because when you are 89 and 87 years old you been married for 67 years and followers of Christ for 64 years and have raised four children are the grandparents of seven grandchildren. It's wise to listen and learn from their perspective and agent perspective. Proverbs 23 says, listen to your father who begot you and do not despise your mother when she is old by truth and do not sell it and get wisdom and instruction and understanding.

I think you're going to hear that today in our annual interview with my parents, dad, mom, it's great to have you on the program for another year. I'm not even sure how many years it's been now that you have come on the program.

During this time of year, but is grateful for another year to have both of you on.

Let's start out with you dad. Both of you had Cove it earlier this year. Think it was back in February and March of this year.

Talk about your first-hand experience now with with Cove it and then your advice for other people your age because you're in that dangerous demographic older demographic for people who get Cove. It that's the one age group that is very much high risk. Aside from those with underlying conditions talk about your advice for others as well. Regarding the treatment the early treatment protocol and the will get into the vaccine as well to have a first with your experience with it. I contracted a Cove in early March. It came on with a fever and other problems. And I said I'm I'm sick. Next day I saw the doctor he tested me and I had Cove it. I couldn't believe it.

We did struggle through it for about a two weeks almost. I was told by my doctor that the thing to do if my oxygen level dropped off to low that I should go to the hospital which I didn't want to do but my son Marco is an MD has been contacted Dr. McCullough. He advised that the hospitals use rim vested here which is not much effective against the virus and that they do not use other off label medicines to cure the problem and so he arranged with Dr. McCullough to give me some neither Mexican at which is a parasite drug azithromycin and prednisone and colchicine in high doses of vitamin C and D and zinc, and so I went right at it with my son's advice and in marriage.

Intercourse also caught the virus a couple days later and she was on the same program. Why do you think with this early treatment protocol put out by the Association of American physicians and surgeons that Dr. Peter McCullough was part of the main editing of that guide which we have on our website the Christian worldview.org why do you think there is been so much emphasis on this so-called vaccine which is not she not a true vaccine associate Jean therapy manipulation.

Why do you think there's been so much emphasis on that getting everyone quote vaccinated from the NIH. The CDC, government, media everywhere else and not this early treatment protocol that you just mentioned that his work so well for you and mom but also many other people have taken that early treatment protocol. You talked about.

Why do you think is been so much emphasis on the vaccine so-called vaccine and not an early treatment protocol. President Trump was pushing hard on the vaccine.

I have a feeling it was just thrown together without time for an exhaustive study, it really is not needed if you had Cove it. First of all, and they has potential bad side effects quite often with the hard problems. It would be much better.

Take the early treatment with the medicines I mentioned, then getting the vaccine because there is risk with the vaccine they just don't know. And every week they come up with a new problem the with the vaccine. Recently I heard that it can, especially in the young girl is that they're trying to give it to kids and I know why that, especially with females. You can get into their the reproductive system and create a problem down the road for them.

They may not be able to have children so that there is there something that's really bad about the vaccine I'm I just don't recommend it at all listening to my parents today here on the Christian worldview.

Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton. They are 89 and 87 years old, married for 67 years, believers in Christ for 64 of those years for children and seven grandchildren.

This is her annual father's and mother's day special interview with them with an agent perspective on the country in the church that one more follow-up question for you on this. This issue of Cove. It I've heard this I know many of our listeners will have maybe even experience this that there is been a division going on with in families over this Cove, it so-called vaccine. Another words, if someone there in the family decides not to get vaccinated does not take that risk doesn't or maybe as Artie had Cove and near zero immune to it for a very long long time or just for whatever reason they don't want to get the vaccine within the other members. The family who have really swallowed the I think you can only describe as the propaganda of the vaccine because he didn't keep you from getting Cove are supposed to reduce the severity of the symptoms. The other members.

The family will say will if you're knocking to get vaccinated.

You can't come and see us. You can come and see your grandchildren, even husband and wife can be at odds with each other over this one wants to get it.

One doesn't. So, what is your advice for those lifting today who have division and their family over whether to get this Cove it vaccine or even the politics around Cove at 19 where you watch one channel like CNN or MSNBC and this is the biggest pandemic ever, and this is seen of the greatest threat we need to shut down society and everyone stay in their home lockdown don't send kids a school where is the other channel you might see on TV more conservative is saying that let's protect the people who are the highest risk was too early treatment.

I let's not shut down our entire society over this. So what is your advice for a division in families that may be taking place over Cove with the treatment and the politics around it. Well, unfortunately I can't solve the problem of the of your home, divided the husband and wife should be on the same page and everything to raising children as to finances and schooling. A lot of other things so they come apart on an issue like Cove in and the vaccine. I guess it's an individual thing. Husband may want to take the vaccine and the wife may not, and that's a dilemma within the family and I can't solve that problem in the use of the vaccine. Long-term testing you really just another guinea pig so we shouldn't be anyone should not be bullied into the vaccine.

The Christian worldview. David Wheaton returns in just a moment the original stalwart souls who created a colony in the howling New England winter jostle. He can worship according to the dictates of conscience, far more influence on world history than they could have ever imagined. The seeds of liberty, both religious liberty and civil liberty. The idea of self-government and rule from within. All these are within that body of pilgrims. The proceeding is from the pilgrims, a 57 minute documentary of the inspiring story and faith of these Christians who greatly impacted our nation.

You can order the DVD for a donation of any amount to the Christian worldview go to the Christian worldview.org or call 1888 646-2233 right to Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331 that's 1888 646-2233 or the Christian worldview.org David Wheaton here volunteer host of the Christian worldview radio program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay for air time on the radio station website or app on which you hear the program. The primary way this expense is recouped is through listeners like you donating to the ministry or becoming a monthly partner. Our aim is to have each broadcast outlet fully supported by the listeners to that outlet. If you are a regular listener. We would be grateful if you made a donation or become a monthly partner of any amount to do so.

Go to the Christian worldview.org and click on donate. You can also call 1888 646-2233. That's 1888 646-2233 or the Christian worldview.org and be sure to specify which station website or app you listen is that helps us decide whether to continue want to give an outlet. Thank you for your support.

Welcome back to the Christian worldview. Be sure to visit our website and the Christian worldview.org we can subscribe to a free weekly email and annual print newsletter resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton. Let's move over mom to what's going on in our culture you seen a lot in your 87 years born in 19 to the been a lot of decades that have gone by and large changes that have gone on in our society. This June. Right now it has become pride month.

It's interesting word for celebrating homosexuality transgender is him and so forth. You have witnessed both of you have witnessed a a moral degeneration in this country not just with regard to homosexuality, but I think you wouldn't. You might say it. It was started with divorce were when you were growing up.

You know anyone who is divorced, so gone from divorce to living together before marriage to no stigma of having children out of wedlock to the abortion culture which came in the Roe V Wade in the 70s and has just expanded from there to homosexuality that that whole movement and now the transgender movement where you are told that you can just change the gender that I got gave you this is become the norm now and in this country you are told. You need to affirm someone in the whatever moral lifestyle. They want to live, you will need to affirm someone in the in the pronouns they picked for themselves how do you explain the kind of moral downgrade or digression that is taken place in this country into a lesser extent, but but a significant extent because a lot of these things are in the church as well. But first talk about the downgrade in the country and how it impacted the church. It's very hard because we remember what life was like before the 60s in the 50s we were. We had two of our children. We were living a very nice life just watching little TV shows and having a good time. A normal life and all of a sudden the 60s came and it was Woodstock and I was watching it all on TV I saw that rock music, the drugs, the sex I was frankly shocked. Not that I so shocked at what people do, but I was sad to see them because they all were thinking there having a good time and I could to see they were ruining their lives before their life. It even started, and then divorce to become common with no father mothers raising children daycare came in.

Women were not home. There has to be a father in the home. I don't really think a mother cannot. Some others do it, but it it isn't the way it is when you have a mother and a father married together loving one another, letting their children and then the homosexual transgender all came along with fornication. People living together. If this is completely accepted now evil don't know it's wrong, but the Bible calls it sin, and the Bible says when you do that you're going to hell. It's just in black-and-white, and I'm really surprised at all of the younger people who tell me that everyone I know is living together and I it's hard for me to understand how they can do that but it's just that they don't know what the Bible says in the Bible's rejected everyone does what is right in his own eyes, and I think I've heard you. You tell me a couple times that you've talked to some younger people interact with them in you will say something to them like with did you know that it's sinful to live with someone or be involved with someone sexually outside of marriage you and though very just say I did not know that I as if their parents who may have even been involved in evangelical church night have not told him that's like this is not new news to them. How do you explain that that that that that hasn't been communicated even in a Christian culture. I've had several tell me why I'm glad you told me I wouldn't have known it and I want to that now that I know, but they don't know if this is the practical result of the death of absolutes like Francis Schaeffer used to say if you don't know what the Bible says and you do what is right in your own eyes. My parents with us today here in the Christian worldview radio program. Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton for the annual interview around the time of Father's Day and Mother's Day. The topic this year is an aged perspective on the country and the church must talk about the evangelical church. Mom you been in mostly evangelical churches since you were saved back in the 1950s. This is a very broad question, but talk about the two or three biggest changes you've seen in the church from the first churches you went to. After you are saved in the 50s to what you see in evangelical church now test after we were born again we want to just a small church but there were no mega churches and they were just smaller churches. We sang hymns out of a hymnbook. We read the Bible in the same version. It happened to be the King James version. Not that that's the only version, but that was the only version available at the time and the pastor would go through one book at a time. Verse by verse. Expository teaching which really taught in the Bible and I guess I would say it was sound doctrine, sound teaching healthy teaching we learn the Bible and we knew we want to live by the Bible.

Now it's mega churches, the rock music felt needs. The pastor has to try to help all these people in the church are having multitudes of problems.

It's sort completely different. It's just hard to describe what you think has been the problem with that that the words you talked about a much more basic simple service singing hymns not so entertainment based not loud, not driven to emotionally or experientially stimulate the church congregation or really put on what can only be described as this really highly professionalized performance each Sunday. What has been the problem with going for more of the simple basic singing hymns reading the Bible preaching are the Bible people dressing up for church to the change of the of what the churches today were it's this is not about none of those things really for mainstream evangelical churches. The methodology is calm and you're going to encounter basically a Christian rock concert followed by a message. What's the problem with what what what these changes it isn't it a new culture, a new society a new generation that needs to have the same thing delivered a different way. What's wrong with that. Everything it's not wholly it's it's the world. They brought the world and the church.

Everything is no different than the world and the Bible says if any man love the world, the love of the father is not in him. You can't compromise optimizes the language of the devil all the emphasis is on the younger people and I'm all for that, too, but I think the older people have some they should at least have something to say. The Bible says the older man should be teaching the younger man the older women to be teaching the younger women my parents with us today here in the Christian worldview. So, having heard what mom said about the big changes seat. She is seen in the evangelical church. If you could speak directly to a pastor listening today elders of the church listening today is a lot of pressure on them to see: quote best practices what's going on at Saddleback Church Rick Warren's church sure Willow Creek and Bill Hibel's Andy Stanley's church were Stephen Frederick's church or life.church in Craig Rochelle these huge big churches that it is purportedly reaching tens of thousands of people on a given weekend. What would be your advice to pastors or elders listening today. Dad to encourage them to go with the fundamentals and not give into focusing on such this contemporary methodology that I think is actually a distraction away from someone focusing truly on going to church to worship God to fellowship with other believers to hear the teaching of the word and to partake in the ordinances of communion and baptism. Lot of these churches started out small and expanded, and they have financial responsibilities that exceed how my how much money comes in through the offering. So there driven to make a show out of the church and unfortunately that replaces the fact that they're not going verse by verse with the Bible there. Therefore, to create an atmosphere so people will want to come.

It's is really too bad that that has to be that way but that's way it is a built these large buildings and they attract thousands of people and they have to keep on attracting thousands of people and they do that by having concerts and all sorts of various activities that are not necessarily Bible doctrine being taught Kayla switch over to another big societal change that is taken place in our country that has to do with all use the word race, even though I don't believe there are multiple races but was commonly called the race relations God created one race, the human race.

There are many ethnicities, skin colors, of course, you all grew up in the 30s, 40s and 50s. This was post-slavery, but it was during the Jim Crow era where there was racial segregation, at least in the in the states of the South. This era from Jim Crow was basically from of the 1870s until was ended by civil rights legislation.

In 1965 that that Jim Crow laws are probably not where you grew up here in Minnesota.

I asked this question known both of you are white and you grew up in white areas so people who are black different skin color will have a different experience in life, for sure, but I would just like to know your perception at least of quote race relations in this country between whites and Blacks in the era that you were growing up in the 30s, 40s and 50s was there this hostility that you feel today was her this great division. This completely different worldview, whereas many in the black community.

Many white liberals feel like our countries is structurally unjust is systemically racist. It's been that way since the founding needs to be overturned. If you're what you're part of the problem was there that worldview. Back then, or what was your perception, your perception of race relations at the time were growing up in the north and Minnesota.

I didn't see that in fact at my office. I hired as my associate, my direct associate in engineering. A man from India and he was very black and yet I never looked at it that way at any point. At no point that's partially because I'm from the north, but my experiences a little different. Prior to that when I was in the military and I had to go down to Camp Gordon in Georgia, which is a military camp. I had to take some clothing into town to have washed and cleaned and I was walking down the street of that town and I noticed that will in the window it said that quite only at the laundromat. I thought all I have all this khaki clothing.

None of its whites all have to move on to another place. I had no idea what the sign meant I was that ignorant. It seems to me that the problem that we have today with the with black versus white is been sort of is being blown out of proportion.

There is no doubt injustice in the in the country but is been totally overblown at this point to the point that it's it's being white is bad. You are born with a skin color. This critical race theory that comes from a demented mind. It was no proof of the dishes been created. It's a political thing and nothing more. So mom dad was talking about his mention their critical race theory. The idea of the country is hopelessly racist.

Built on racism. It's still oppressive toward nonwhites. You're what you're part of the problem.

You're a racist or even know your privilege. All these kinds of things that can credibly divide divisive reason, resent filled, hateful worldview. I don't think this was around when you were growing up. I know we played a sound by reasoning from James Cohen back in the 70s. The father black liberation theology. He was pushing this stuff back in the 70s probably the 80s. He still influential to do even that you know is dead but why do you think of this particular racial venues were racial division or ethnic division has become so accepted and pushed now so long after slavery. Ms. slavery was what 150 years ago, it ended the Jim Crow laws in the South were over. Back in the 19 early 60s. Why do you think it's become this critical race theory has become so popular and pervasive now because is a constant drumbeat about it all the time. If you can't ignore it because they're constantly pushing it on you on the news and in when you watch anything and see anything black lives matter will all lives matter, not just black lives we never had a problem with black people live. I know many black people who are wonderful people that have a real love and love for Jesus Christ. It all comes down to Christ.

Jesus Christ is the answer for everything the Bible has everything you need to know to live your life the right way and is just really when it comes down to it it's Satan who is behind it all to get people to hate each other because of their skin color. That's the most ridiculous thing you could even think of because we don't look at people based on their this skin color. We we we look at people for their soul and I I love to tell people about Jesus Christ and it doesn't matter what color they are really it's the heart. Thank you for that important reminder mom that were to love one another, not based on their skin color not based on their ethnicity. God created us all differently when you love one another love God and love others.

It is the gospel that we unite around Jesus Christ.

Thank you for saying that the Christian worldview. David Wheaton returns in just a moment. Recent guest Caleb Eisner defines economics as moral philosophy applied to marketplace relationships, so it makes sense that as our nation's judgment of what is right and wrong has moved away from biblical morality are economic policies have gone the same wrong direction.

So what is the Christian worldview on economics. Caleb Eisner has written an insightful 56 page softcover booklet titled biblical foundations for economics that shows how economic principles and policies need to be based on the Bible to achieve the greatest human flourishing for limited time we are offering biblical foundations for economics for donation of any amount to the Christian worldview to order go to the Christian worldview.org or call 1888 646-2233 or right to Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331 again the website is the Christian worldview.org I am going there myself. I really only nursing. It was never crossing my mind and I will base any sort of language and shield.

As I went to get a mammogram and the doctor walked in and immediately started tearing. She said Kelsey had known you for years and this is really hard for me to tell you pain is breast cancer because I'm a Samaritan member. I knew that I had complete freedom in regards to which providers I saw a man in my winnings again and they are so generous when cancer means that although I had to make how I was going to pay for and where I was going to be one of the things I was concerned about such beautiful negative Samaritan and I would community of Christians caring for each other with a biblical solution to healthcare. Learn more and Samaritan ministries.org/TC W this Christmas day program with my parents was aired earlier this year. Happy 90th birthday dad. We are blessed of the Lord because of you. Thanks for joining us on the Christian worldview. Just a reminder that today's program and past programs are archived at our website. Christian worldview.org things are also available and be sure to share with others. Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton appearance with us today here on the Christian worldview in this father-son Mother's Day special program you have seen the country. I've heard you say this become divided, not only over the issue.

Critical race theory but other issues as well to left versus right is a huge division in this country. Now how do you maintain balance or perspective or grounding in the midst of just some of the world's gone crazy. How do you rate maintain a balance in the mess of that when I think about it my life I've lived 87 years I've been a Christian for 66 years and when I think that if I had not believed in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. My whole life would have been so different, I will. I wouldn't of had a knee anything I I wouldn't I would know how to think, but once I was born again. I had a real appetite for the word of God. I still haven't time, I am listening every day to my one teacher who is help me through maybe 50 years of Bible teaching because he teaches healthy teaching town sound doctrine just means teaching. It's given me a way of life that says my mother used to say the right way to live and you can get yourself in all kinds of problems. If you don't have the Bible to tell you this is right.

This is wrong.

It's a narrow road. The Bible's Christ said it's a narrow road in a difficult road and very few that find it in the broad road has many on it and that road is the road that leads to hell and all the problems people have. So I'm just thankful for the years I've had of the Bible. This reading it, learning it listening to it and when I think of it I know so little. I can eat if you spend your whole life, hearing it, reading it and didn't even touch it is so much there every day you read it in the Bible is alive sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing asunder the soul of the spirit is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Did you seen the country like mom become very divided and very chaotic. If there's a worldview, a huge worldview divide in this country not only between left and right but between the remnant of Bible believing born-again Christians in broader culture.

So how do you maintain balance foundation in a time and place now where what you believe and how you think is in the very very small minority. With everything going on around you. Don't let yourself get sucked into everything this on television there so much dad going on even such things as the economic situation that were in right now as a government is become the sugar daddy of the people. It amazes me that the national debt of $28 trillion in Congress happily spends more trillions. Where's the endpoint right now and spend spend spend and people just I heated up and send checks out to everybody will where is this going to kick the can down the road. Someone's going to have to pay for this.

The country is so divided and KA chaotic and I think that the focus on these times for individuals listening to my voice so put your time in reading the Bible and of course telling others about the word of God because everything else is is just plain foolishness and television is the worst media for affecting people lives from every angle, which is just softened your brain. The world is going up with smoke someday in the gospel will save us for eternity. And there's a total deemphasizing in the Bible teaching today and the churches are.

I'm sorry to hear that they're actually going downhill people are being brought into the government serves as a war Bakken in Germany years ago mom you want to add something to that about an issue that we had run up today. What was that feminism I remember when feminism came in and that was another thing that I saw. It's not biblical because the Bible is very clear that the in marriage, the husband is the head of the wife.

The wife submits to the husband and so simple. When you just follow what the Bible says in Ephesians 5 and six about husband, the wife, the children it but now it's just all completely wrong and I see so many women just there so confused because the woman cannot be like a man that God made the woman certain way and made the man a certain way, but we aren't made the same so it's it's feminism to that I think is a great problem and in the country today and in the church as well. Now that we see this coming into the evangelical church with women being ordained as pastors always have to qualify by saying God sees men and women as if complete equal value to design them with different roles and one role is in worse than the other.

The rules are both equally important.

My parents join us today here on the Christian worldview among you mentioned coming to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Back in the 1950s. Your mother was the first one. My grandmother listening to Christian radio here heard a pastor preaching on the radio talking about who Christ is and what he did on the cross and she grew up Catholic and came to saving faith and then you didn't understand it with a new couple years later you started listening to Christian radio. Also, this tell us briefly about how you came how God brought you to saving faith and and and how you understood the gospel we had gone to New York for two years.

Dad was in the Army ROTC and I didn't like living in New York. It was a whole different world in the world I'd lived in where we live now. It barely it was hard for me.

I came home that summer and my mother had written me a note that she had been worn again and I just I thought all this is just going to blow over is just an emotional experience and data but it didn't blow over.

I could see my mother mother was out transformed her life had been transformed by Christ. They took me two years, but by the end of that time. I knew that what she had was something I wanted. It was, you know, the believer should attract people to Christ as my mother did me and so I started listening to Christian radio because she she keep saying maryjane would you just listen to the radio and I finally started to listen in three days. After listening for three days I got it. I realize that I was a sinner.

I never knew I was a sinner. I'd grown up in the Episcopal Church and that God is everyone's father and it was going to heaven and no one has Nice and that's all I'd heard. But when I realize that I was a sinner and that I was actually going to hell and it wasn't just that I was afraid of going to hell. It was just that I knew I had no answers to life and so as I listen to the radio I had was getting good teaching from Northwestern College. At the time there were good men they are teaching the Bible verse by verse and in three days I got it and I just knew that this I've found the truth and dad would come home and he'd say what's going on with you.

You are here at the same now I wasn't I was not the same. I just all I wanted was to hear the word of God and learn how to apply it and obey it. My life and then dead you are to save shortly thereafter he has. I saw mom saved and they wondered what was going on in your life and she seemed to have a different aura about her and something that I felt I didn't have and so with her involvement in the course in marriage and the fact that we were taking on new friends that were listening to the word of God. I became exposed to it. And one day I went forward as a meeting was it was a gospel meeting and a gospel preacher from Iowa that was preaching. I just knew at that very moment that I did not have what they were talking about. I had to go forward and that not that going forward save me but it was a change in my heart that caused me to become a Christian and in the course of just change the pathway my life, but more importantly, the pathway of our whole family with four children.

Thank you for for sharing is always great to hear your your faith story how he came to saving faith. It's been eventful year so far. Rolling in June. Mom you had a terrible hip break after a fall surgery you're recovering. I think fairly well from that now, as I mentioned earlier in the program. Both of you had cool vid your 8987 years old. You have constant health problems coming up going to doctors and that anyone is in their 80s knows what I'm talking about. What is your perspective on knowing that you're likely living in the last years of your life mean people don't typically live this long sometimes are in the 90s, but this is you flip both lived a very long life and that you might be going to be in the presence of your Savior, Jesus Christ. Maybe not even years from now may be months from now. Maybe days from now when you could take a fall, you get sick anything can happen at this age of me. I know me and my siblings know this and think that way and we see you and we use never know were thankful for how many years we've been able to have the privilege and opportunity to be with you but we just never know your answer.

No Elvis it could be one of us as well get a car accident and our days are not guaranteed.

Tomorrow's not guaranteed, but when you're your age, you must have the sense that you were at the end of our lives, and I've heard you talk about it. What's it like being at the end of your life knowing that your fairly close don't know exactly 1 of course to meeting your Savior Jesus Christ in person.

What how do you think at this time. Well it's and she had a good feeling.

It's is a feeling of stability to know that we will someday leave this life for what the Bible because it's a divine transition. We don't know the details but were certainly open and welcoming to it. I don't know how many days I have left or months or years, but each day we live, we live with the light of eternity. I give no thought to what I'm wanted Diane would be 90 soon and the Lord is blessed me this many years.

If he wants me to stay on he'll all say on.

If he doesn't, then nine of fly flyaway mom will what are you what are your thoughts on likely being near the the end of your life and in going to heaven. I can't tell you how much it means to know Christ as your Savior and learn for this life now and knowing where you're going when you die, I'm so thankful for the life that I've had these years in Christ and the greatest joy in my life is to tell someone else about Christ so they can know him to everywhere I've been. I've told him in some have believes and to hear them.

After many years. It's it gives me joy to see my children, my physical children and my spiritual children walking in the truth.

I I take it in. I want to give it out. I just don't understand people who take it in, but they don't give it out. I mean, what is the point if you're taking in. Is it all for me me me it's so other people. You can tell other people so they can know Christ to but it will be worth it all. When we see Jesus.

It will be worth it all. When we see Christ. One look at his dear face, all sorrow will embrace it will be worth it when we see Christ. What would a beautiful way to end our interview today. Thank you both for coming on the program once again and offering your your perspective and agent perspective on the country in the church and I know I speak on behalf of my siblings and your grandchildren.

We we all love you and your spiritual children. We love you so much and were just so grateful that.

But God has been gracious to us and not only keeping you here this long, but also keeping you here with the kind of relationship we have with you and knows I'm getting older, I appreciate it more all the time and I'm am just thankful that the now even my own son will be able to remember and has has opportunity to interact with you will be influenced by both of you so happy Mother's Day and happy Father's Day and I thank you again for coming on the Christian worldview radio program. Thank you David for having us.

We listen to you every week and learn a lot from the things that you learn and then pass on to other people, we do really appreciate the Christian worldview and we appreciate you, David, for giving your heart and soul to help others find Christ well I hope you enjoyed that interview with my parents and I just consider myself most blessed to have been placed as a child in their family just a few takeaways that I thought of enlisting to them number one they have a valuable perspective. They have lived a long life they have been longtime believers. They have experienced several errors whereas younger people may be include myself in that were limited by the time in which we have lived.

They speak differently. You probably have noticed they're not as nuanced, less qualifications and you hear people give today. There's an expectation of that generation that people will understand what you're saying without so many qualifications that people on so easily offended if you noticed in their perspective that there are quite I would say pessimistic about the country and the culture, and even the church if it compromises, but they're optimistic I think is you could discern about God and his purposes, and eternity. So they have this balance of pessimism about the future of mankind, but in optimism about what God in his gospel can do in the lives of people who believe in it and that balance of pessimism about the future of the world in optimism about God's plans and purposes is squarely based on what Scripture teaches. The second take away that comes across loud and clear is that the turning point in their lives when they put their faith or trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord change their lives.

Immeasurably for now and for eternity. And by the way, that can be the most important turning point of your life. If you're listening today and have not put your faith in who Jesus Christ is and what he did for you on the cross. Go to our website and read the page on what must I do to be saved to exhort you to put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. Just as my parents did many many decades ago.

Third take away is that the Bible the word of God is their basis for how they think and live. They have a high view of Scripture and not only that they still have a need they still feel a strong urge and desire to read and study it and hear it preached on a daily basis because they know just like physical food helps you physically the spiritual food of the Bible is what sustains us spiritually before takeaways that they are still engaged in in life and ministry. Even at their elderly ages as every Christian should be no we may retire from work, but we definitely should not retire from the Christian life.

We should be praying for the strong desire to grow closer to God and his son a greater desire for his word opportunities to proclaim the gospel to disciple those younger in the faith and could still be engaged in a local Bible believing church as we are able. Paul wrote in his second letter to the Corinthians in chapter 4 about living in the here and now, in light of eternity.

He said therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying. I know my parents feel that yet our inner man is being renewed day by day that's a good word for all of us to remember as we walked down the narrow road following Christ in this life. Thank you for listening to the Christian worldview can hear past programs order resources for adults and children. You can sign up for our free weekly email support the ministry or become a monthly partner@ourwebsitethechristianworldview.org or by calling us one AAA 646-2233 and also a mention of our national sponsor Samaritan ministries. If you have any health care needs.

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Click on their banner Samaritan ministries banner. We have a direct number to talk to their membership team at 1-877-691-1625. Be sure to tell them you heard about them through the Christian worldview radio program. So as we close. Let's remember in this fallen world that Jesus Christ and his word are the same yesterday today and forever until next time think biblically live accordingly and stand firm. The mission of the Christian worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged. Toward that end here replayed today's program or to sign up for free weekly email to find out what must I do to be saved to your website. Christian worldview.org or call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 Christian worldview as a listener supported ministry and furnished by the overcoming foundation, a nonprofit organization.

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