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June 25, 2021 8:00 pm
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is the largest Protestant church denomination in North America, with six seminaries, 47,000 churches, 14 million church members, and affiliate entities in 41 states. Some of the largest churches and most influential pastors in America are part of the SBC, including Rick Warren, Ed Young, Kerry Shook, Jack Graham, Jonathan Falwell, Matt Chandler, and Steven Furtick.
Because of its size, one could say, â€śAs the Southern Baptist Convention goes, so goes Evangelicalism in the U.S.â€ť In other words, the doctrinal stances of the SBC and the pastors it educates at its seminaries will likely trickle down to a church near you.
Which is why we are going to recap some of the most noteworthy events at this yearâ€™s SBC Annual Meeting which just took place in Nashville, TN. Member churches can send up to 12 attendees or â€śmessengersâ€ť to participate in the annual meeting, which includes voting on resolutions and leadership for the SBC.
One of those messengers was Tom Ascol, pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Cora, FL. He is also the president of Founders Ministries, which produced an excellent documentary on the 2019 SBC Annual Meeting, highlighting a resolution made on critical race theory (CRT).
Tom will explain some of the key moments of the Annual Meeting, including the election of a new SBC president, pastor Ed Litton, who came out on top over Mike Stone and Albert Mohler (who is the president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary).
Whether youâ€™re Southern Baptist or not, please join us to discern the direction of this influential organization, and more broadly, Evangelicalism in America.
Confession without conviction.
Southern Baptist convention's annual meeting recap is our topic today right here in the Christian world radio program for the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview. Christians and to share the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host is a nonprofit ministry. Thank you to our listeners for their support and also our national sponsor Samaritan ministry provided biblical solution to healthcare and find out about the Christian rule UN Samaritan by going to our website.
The Christian were.org Southern Baptist convention, also known as the SBC is the largest Protestant church denomination in North America with six seminaries over 47,000 churches 14 million church members and affiliate entities in 41 states. Some of the largest churches and most influential pastors in America are part of the SBC including Rick Warren, Ed Young.
Carrie shook Jack Graham Jonathan Falwell Matt Chandler and Stephen for Dick because of its size.
One could say quote as a Southern Baptist convention goes, so goes evangelicalism in the United States and other words the doctrinal stances of the SBC and the pastors. It educates edits seminaries will likely trickle down to a church near you. Which is why we are going to recap some of the most noteworthy events at this year Southern Baptist convention annual Meeting Which Just Took Pl. in Nashville, TN member churches can send up to 12 attendees or is there called messengers to participate in the annual meeting, which includes voting on resolutions and leadership decisions for the convention know one of those messengers was Tom Haskell.
He's the pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida. He is also the president of Founders ministries which produced an excellent documentary that we featured here in the Christian real view back in 2019 about the SBC annual meeting back then that highlighted a resolution that they made a resolution nine on critical race theory. Tom joins us today to explain some of the key moments of the annual meeting, including the election of a new SBC president Pastor Ed Lytton who came out on top over Mike Stone and Albert Mohler, who is the president of the Southern Baptist theological seminary, whether you're a Southern Baptist or not.
We hope you join us today to discern the direction of this influential organization, and more broadly evangelicalism in America that some of you might be thinking with regard to this topic.
This is sort of like the term inside baseball, which the dictionary refers to is that the minutia or the detailed inner workings of the system that are only interesting to or appreciated by experts or or insiders or as you listen to the interview today. Some of you might be thinking part. This is really a political organization and political being, maybe not so much like halls of government and that kind of thing but political in terms of where there's maneuvering for power and influence that deals are made being made behind the scenes and there's there's messaging that needs to get out.
There's campaigning yours self ambition and that's all true.
As you can hear Tom Haskell talk about but political maneuvering is really part of every organization. Think about it, whether it's in business or school boards or nonprofit organizations or churches, even in families, and the reason that is is because self ambition exists within every one of those entities not condoning that.
I'm just saying political maneuvering is a reality in our world. Plus, there's lots of pure pressure in organizations like the Southern Baptist convention. There's been long time. Relationships formed over many years may back to the other times in seminary, who's influential what churches are growing. How are the positions we take as a church or I is an individual. How is that going to affect me or how is our church going to be perceived or treated as a result of these positions that we are taking but again putting that aside, the Southern Baptist convention needs to be understood because of its influence on broader Christianity in the United States.
Now it's unsurprising such a large organization that there would be a wide spectrum of beliefs in viewpoints on issues such as the inerrancy of Scripture, women teaching men in churches or church methodology, even on issues of homosexuality in critical race theory you remember back in 2019 at the SBC annual meeting that there was much news came out of that when a resolution was passed resolving that and I quote that critical race theory and interests externality should only be employed as analytical tools subordinate to Scripture not as transcendent ideological frameworks unquote on the question from that is, one wonders why the un-biblical worldview. Critical race theory will be employed at all except a completely repudiated as un-biblical and divisive. There've been lots of other issues going on within the SBC. Recently, Beth Moore, the popular Bible teacher and author has left the Southern Baptist convention. Also, Russell Moore, no relation there who was the head of the Southern Baptist ethics and religious liberty commission has just left the SBC to go over to Christianity today. That was a very noteworthy event recently and this year there was an election for a new president so is a lot to talk about today. Let's get to the first segment of the interview with Pastor Tom Haskell, Tom.
It's great to have you back on the program. It's been about a year and 1/2 since you were last on the program. As we discussed your excellent documentary entitled by what standard that was in January 2020 and that was covering some of the. The important issues going on within the Southern Baptist convention.
The resolution nine in critical race theory will get into that today, but there was a convention last year in 2020. Ability because a covert so this was the first convention since that time before we get into. Actually some of the issues that the new president, and so forth and so on.
Let's get to the why question first. There a lot of people listening today who aren't Southern Baptists so why should the Southern Baptist convention. What took place there be important to those listening to our Nema Southern Baptists will. It's a great question. Then it boils down to the fact that the southern edge convention's largest Protestant denomination that we have in this nation might be in the world him maybe not quite that. But it was certainly a North America we impact the evangelical world. In North America, not just North America but around the world because of a very large missionary force as well. The goes out through throughout the nations and praise God for that. But if things are not healthy, then that influence in the evangelical world is not going be healthy and those missionaries all around the world are not going to be healthy will be spreading things. It will be lamenting in the decades to come. So what happens to the SBC matters to the larger evangelical witness here and around the world so everybody even if you're not on the bed should be concerned about the direction of this convention of churches given Tomas go with us today on the Christian real view. The senior pastor of Grace Baptist Church and also the president of Founders ministries.
The website is Founders.org Tom Alana read portions of the of a column by Ed Stetzer. Ed is an author or speaker researcher Pastor church planter recordings bio Christian missiology just use the Billy Graham distinguished chair of church mission in evangelism at Wheaton College and the Executive Director of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College.
He writes for Christianity today. He wrote a postconvention analysis piece for Christianity today and I want to read a couple paragraphs and then have you comment on some of his perspective, getting your perspective as a Southern Baptist pastor who was at the convention as well. The subtitle for his calm was the election was a fork in the road election for a new Southern Baptist convention president rejecting a hard turn to the right are hard right turn in embracing a multiethnic future, and even in the subtitle there is there is this there is this implication that the hard right turn those people who were for this who have these hard right people are against a multiethnic future. So you kinda have to read between the lines here on some the things he saying, but he starts out by saying some thought the convention was like a building wired for demolition on the verge of imploding this year instead. This year proved to be refreshing as it confirmed the more hopeful direction. The SBC Southern Baptist convention has been heading in recent years, people showed up and they made a difference in the election was a fork in the road for several reasons. His first reason that it was a fork in the road. Is this a represents an approach from the posture of faith over the peddling of fear over all the election of Ed Lytton and most of the decisions of the convention show the Southern Baptist can face the challenges of our time in ways that are both biblical and wise.
The election of Ed Lytton is important.
He says he is been calling for an modeling racial reconciliation, encouraging people to listen to the lived experiences of African-American leaders. His election demonstrates how over half of the messenger that's with her called the attendees to their convention wanted to move forward in the posture of reconciliation racial reconciliation in a way that honors the Scriptures and is sensitively aware of the challenges still faced by our brothers and sisters of color.
He writes concludes I know that Lytton will continue to move the SBC more toward the posture of faith, rather than the peddling of fear in this area. Now Ed Lytton. Most of our listeners. I didn't even know never heard of him. He's a pastor believe in Texas about Alabama excuse me and we've already read things that they had change their theological statement. The website because there is statement of the Trinity was non-Orthodox right mentioned something to do with report said that the said the Bible whispers about homosexuality, but shouts about other more important issues.
So there's been some things like this. What you know about Ed Lytton and what you think of Ed Stetzer's response to his election don't know Ed Lytton personally so. All I know about them is what I've learned is the North American Mission Board has A platform him the last six months around the southern rebels mentioned him going around giving talks to their church planters and you'll obviously try to raise his profile for the boat.
Washington Post said that an insider told that the North American Mission Board did everything they could bring urban pastors into vote for Ed Lytton North American Mission Board says that's not accurate with a not repudiated Washington Post story and that not asked for a retraction on it so there's there's a lot of intrigue denominationally, politically, that's behind that. I don't know Ed Lytton. I've listened to one of the sermons this morning where he says that homosexuality is not in the Bible that that's a Freudian word, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and that this is been used for the common vernacular today, but in ways are not helpful. This is a storm of the priest. Romans one. I think it's 18 through 32 and I wasn't I wasn't encouraged by much of what he said there and he did say that the Bible shouts about greed whispers about sexual sin, which you know I tell that to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah you have that one whisper what will shouting look like so I'm undisturbed by the way that Ed Lytton seems to be reading the Bible on these issues.
He has been prominent in trying to do something to Mobile, Alabama to bridge some of the racial tensions and praise God for every good thing that is done, there I would completely disagree with Ed Stetzer.
I've known Ed Stetzer for probably 30 years undoing back when he was a Calvinist and that we would talk late at night on telephone when he was a church planter up in the Philadelphia area. If I remember right, and no Ed does have his take on where things need to go how to get us where he thinks we need to go and I would disagree with his vision with his understanding and with his goals of what ought to be done again.
I say this with no animosity toward him, but I could take the very same things. He just knew read to me that he's written and set use progressive agendas and justify everything that he said in terms of a progressivism that seems to be taken over the SBC. Do we want to go down the road that says God whispers about sexual sin, do we want to go down the road where now we have Ed Lytton who preaches with his wife. He said we don't have women preachers in our church and then within days. Video started showing up at him and his wife preaching together at redemption church in Mobile, Alabama, and she saying these are her words. This is our last sermon in this series now got to know his wife. I'm not casting stones at them. Personally, I don't know them but we now have a president of the southernmost convention to with his wife preaches on Sunday mornings to his church and he says I'm a conservative, Ed Lytton said there is no liberal drift. There is a drift toward fundamentalism will no organization has ever drifted toward fundamentalism. The music is historically a joke to suggest that the drift is always downward leftward and to couch the. The election of Ed Lytton over Mike Stone in terms of a choice to move forward racial racial reconciliation and being more biblical and all the stuff that Ed Stetzer said that I think is is just not it's not accurate is not fair.
It's certainly not charitable. Mike Stone was slandered and smeared by some leaders in the Southern Baptist convention in the week leading up to our meeting in Nashville last week. He was accused of all kinds of things that it's a manner guilty of them. He'll be thrown in jail.
He was accused of covering up sex abuse accused by the outgoing president of the ethics and religious liberty commission from the quote from Russell Moore here. He said that Mike Stone was a part of an effort to create a culture where countless children have been torn to shreds, where women have been raped and then broken down now. Mike Stone is a survivor of sex abuse himself as a child, his church leaders are rightly angry about this taken a page from the Democratic playbook to smear a fellow Christian omission is horrific.
What happened despite all of those attempts in and they were very effective.
The vote, the final vote on the second ballot for the president SBC was 52% to 48% and italic talked to multiple people who said they simply could not vote for Mike Stone. Because of this cloud of suspicion, Wildman cast over him, so it was wicked. What happened to Mike Stone was wicked and I think it Stetzer if I could talk to him personally and we tried to meet up at the convention.
We just didn't. I think Ed would have to agree that what was done to Mike Stone was wicked. It should not of been done. Russell Moore is no hero known Russell for 30 years as well as not person with him.
It was cowardly and it was it was a self indictment. If you read the letters that Russ wrote that have been mysteriously leaked to the public. Supposedly they were private letters you read in the satellite public documents are brushed aside for seven years he lived with this type of of what he calls psychological terrorism and he didn't say a word about it while asking where's your manhood, much less your Christianity. If this is going on behind closed doors in your quiet and you my friend are complicit in the very things that you are accusing others of doing so.
I was very very upset. I'm very discouraged that these types of things would go on by some convention leaders and be allowed to go on by others, and I don't think the churches in the southern edge manager have put up with it everything I can to make these facts known and to see churches rally and stand up and say enough simply not another down this bad road. The Christian world you David returns in just a moment.
David Wheaton here volunteer host of the Christian review radio program.
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The Christian were.org welcome back to the Christian world. Be sure to visit our website and the Christian view.org we can subscribe to a free weekly email an annual print newsletter resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton sounds like the last-minute slander of Mike Stone worked from a FEMA voting standpoint and just tipping Ed Lytton over the line as the new president of the SBC for the next two years, and Russell Moore. By the way who Tom which is referencing.
There was formally the head of the ethics and religious liberty commission of the Southern Baptist convention. Now he is left that organization now is now going to be working over at Christianity today, which is very telling and of itself is a very that that is become a very non-Orthodox biblically sound organization and one in the church is not even Baptist. So it's interesting to see what happened was some of these people that were in leadership in the SBC when they leave where they go. They didn't flip overnight. It's a commentary when you watch where they go. You're listening to Tomas call today here on the Christian review. The senior pastor of Grace Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist Church in Cape Coral Florida. Also the president of founders ministries. This is a great ministry.
By the way, go to founders.org have all sorts of great resources. We feature their documentary by what standard they have another one coming up and asked him about that and just a little bit now the one person we didn't mention haven't talked about yet. Tom is Albert Mohler, the president of the Southern Baptist theological seminary who I would say is probably the most well-known, visible and influential Southern Baptist of all, he was running for president as well.
And yet he didn't even make it to the final two-person race between Ed Lytton and Mike Stone. In the end too much lesser known people what happened.
Albert Mohler know now long time.
He's done some wonderful things in his ministry is Southern seminary and you're right well is the best known Southern Baptist, but he came in third on the first ballot and the people who were more progressive would not be happy with Al because Al has been outspoken and very clear and opposing critical race theory very clear on complementarity and is in biblical authority speaks very clearly about those things and so they would not be happy with the people who are wanting to be more focused practically on the application of all those things have grown displeased without because he says the right things is never the same wrong, but when as he said couple years ago at the conference out at John MacArthur's copper shepherd's conference. He said just what UI platform well when you look at the people that Al has hired and the people that have promoted some of the things are not healthy in the SBC you have to say that what he is advocated theoretically doesn't correspond with what he's done practically and so there were many of us who said we need someone not like that and I believe our malls or denominational guy. He's worked his whole life in a denominational office. I believe we need a pastor that I was advocating for past trauma man who looks people in the eye every week. These immigrant account to before God and yes to shepherd their souls. That's the kinda guy was leaving and a guy who has backbone whose unashamed of the word God. That was Mike Stone. Again, I don't know Ed Lytton but just listening. What a Lytton is said since the convention and so the server sermons of his or her coming to light in the wake of his election. I'm I'm concerned and I would not be as an advocate for the positions that he is staking out how kind of lost all of his constituency.
It's sad. I take no pleasure in it. But we need a leader like he was when he went to Southern seminary in 1993, 94, and drew a line in the sand as it were not going forward in a way to fight these battles and God help us win win. But that's not where he is today. So seems like he was sir the middle candidate you had Mike Stone, representing more of a conservative biblical worldview.
Ed Lytton more of a theologically liberal, possibly the world biblical worldview and then maybe I'll Mohler in the middle and the people involved in one side of the other and Al ended up coming in third and it's hard to to use those ugly taxonomies. The economies of how to classify because Al is not a liberal, probably Ed Lytton. This is not a classic liberal leader Mohammed calls himself conservative part of the problem we have. David is today. We got all these people. I say we sign the documents you know where narratives we signed the damper statement was on the national savings on the bed despite the message but it's like they're doing it theoretically and so yeah theoretically they believe they really are conservative, but you forgot to say I'm a conservative I'm a complementarity and and to preach with his wife. That's the problem were facing today's the vocabulary is still the same, but the dictionary exchanged and we got a drill down and say what you mean by this. You can't be a complementarity and an advocate preaching with your wife just you can't be those postings and do not go together. And yet that's where we are, so it's hard to unclassified I don't I don't use. Typically, the conservative versus liberal scale anymore in these debates. I speak more in terms of theoretical and emeritus theoretical confessional is versus practical those that have backbone and skin in the game are willing to take a stand on the things that they theoretically confess that's a good way of putting it. It's it's it's about saying one thing, really.
And in doing or living another preaching actually acting.
Another way that Tomas go with us today on the Christian review is get to the second take away of Ed Stetzer from the convention and said this convention represents the choice of love over legalism Southern Baptist for for a generation carry the rapid reputation of having a strong stance on truth, but too often to the neglect of grace.
Jesus warned the legalists in Matthew 23 who focus on towing the line of their convictions to also focus on the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faithfulness words to be heated today to the messengers of this year's convention seem to understand Southern Baptist must be people of truth while being people who love our communities and neighbors well.
This includes, in particular how to learn to love people who are different than us. People of other races backgrounds and ethnicities again the implication here is Tom that those who are biblically use the word conservative are people who focus on truth, but are legalistic they they neglect grace as as Ed Stetzer said that your response to the southern Baptist history being called your truth tellers, but without grace or caring about those who are different than us any slice of history you want to look among any people you can find examples that would satisfy that contention. But let me just say that I am offended by the way that it has characterized this love versus legalism really truth versus love for me. The truth of the Bible commands and the love that the Bible commands walk hand-in-hand. Love rejoices in truth, Paul says in first grade inch 13 so to pit love and truth, against one another is to just admit from the outset were talking about something that is an un-biblical category now can a person hold the truth and unloving ways without a doubt can be loving at the expense of truth. No doubt in what we gotta do is realize that we are not loving people. When we don't tell them the truth again forbids benefit of the this is this a good chance to talk to them all encouraging. To do this just if you think that what we did last week by electing it. Lytton was showing a kinder gentler Southern Baptist convention to the world and now the world you like us just read the headlines of CNN that say well it may look like the Southern Baptists have taken a turn toward kinder and more loving ways. But don't be fooled.
They still are opposed to LGBT Q people you know they still believe that abortion is something that is immoral. You cannot pacify people that are radically opposed to God who hate God, you can't do it and you're not loving them by just simply trying to be nice. What we gotta do without any kind of anger and animosity when trying to, you know, just win arguments, we gotta look him in the eyes that you know what friend God made you, he made you for himself. He rebelled against him. You need to be reconciled to him.
He sent his son in order to reconcile people like you to him. If you turn from your sin.
Trust is done you will be reconciled to your maker. If you continue on the path your own and you will live under his wrath under his ever lasting judgment and we don't want that for you.
But see, that sounds harsh, unloving, bigoted, legalistic, and I think we've just been plagued by the world world on a far better job discipling people than the church as and whenever Ed Stetzer makes these kinds of dichotomies in these types of assessments. I think you just playing right into the hands of the world that was well said Tom, thank you so much for that. It's just so interesting as you are describing the gospel there that the world thinks of that trying to save people's souls as being hateful because you're talking about God's judgments like yours you're trying to save some from going off a bridge that that is the bridge is out and you try to tell him faith.
You know you're going the wrong way that seemed like the most loving thing you can ask you do to someone is to tell them that message lately and listen to Maureen Joe Joe Scarborough reassembly on CNN at a panel discussion that he was talking about how harsh the sum of the Southern Baptists are, you know, and they they just demand that you say abortion is wrong and they forgot the gospel. We need to read the red letters of Jesus and in the Bible and focus on those because we gotta be Christlike.
You know were not being Christlike in the world's not liking us, and I guess Joe says is a Southern Baptist something of myself. You know what Jesus was pretty Christlike and in the world and love him. They crucified it's just like we don't know what were talking about anymore and we don't do anyone either the world or the church any favors.
When we start taking our cues from the world and one of the things is repeated multiple times at the convention last week in Nashville is brothers and sisters.
The world is watching. The world is watching the course. She had reporters from all over the place in the room and I just want to shout couple points yet what God is watching to honor God. Are we going to dishonor God for the sake of trying to look nice in the eyes of the world. The world is watching other words, we need to we need to present a certain front. This can be palatable to the world and never gonna be able to do that to a nonbelieving world. Tomas go with us today on the Christian worldview, senior pastor Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida. Also present a founders ministries.
Let's talk about some of the resolutions that came up that were addressed.
Of course two years ago. The big one was on critical race theory known in the industry. One more paragraph from Ed Stetzer's article says. Furthermore, the election revealed a false report about critical race theory I can say without ambiguity. Ed lit the new president does not hold or teach critical race theory regardless of how you feel about critical race theory he is. He's in the space of pursuing racial recognition and some mistakenly conflate those two separate though related spaces. Critical race theory is become for many, a kind of catchall term regarding race issues in the bogeyman of our time, Southern Baptists had their share of bogeyman over the years the charismatic bogeyman the Calvinist bogeyman and how it now. The critical race theory bogeyman, to name a few. I'm a Southern Baptist Stetzer rights and there's a significant number of us who believe that systemic racism and structural issues still exists that elements of the past have been projected in the present while our nation to continue to be formed into a more perfect union. There's still more work to be done now this was a big issue last time the convention Tom what happened this time with a response that resolution nine from last time I critical race theory. I heard it was even mentioned by name. That's correct, I will.
It was mentioned is not from the platform at any kind of waited to be deliberated so I made a motion as I promised to do since 2019's convention that we rescind resolution nine that was adopted at that convention and I was told leading up to in fact I had some conversations with folks were sent to try to persuade me not to do that in deals offered to me, but I just said what I've been saying for a year and 1/2 two years.
Look, do I want to make a motion will you be ruled out of order and the lawyers were debating it. Behind the scenes in the weeks leading up to the commission.
What we do with this motion, and so I made the motion and sure enough they ruled out of order. They had a convention lawyer come to the microphone of the platform and explain why Roberts rules of order could be followed to this point because of the standards of the SBC's constitution.
I didn't buy it.
We could've done it either nut and other attorneys tell me might most certainly could've done it, but my motion was ruled out of order. I tried to petition the ruling of the chair was resoundingly voted down so didn't get that then over 1300 Southern Baptists submitted a resolution on the incompatibility of critical race theory and her sexuality with the Baptist Faith and message which is our doctrinal statement in the convention over 1300 signatures on one resolution. It took up 4 1/2 pages of the daily boat bulletin just to list the names of those who signed this submission of this resolution to the committee and the committee refused to bring it out.
That's unprecedented. There's never been a resolution submitted to the southern edge convention with more than five names on it. Prior to this year we had over 1300 Southern vendors names on it and the committee completely ignored it and they they try to justify the lot of ways they came out with what's called now resolution to which she disavows any kind of worldly ideologies are contrary to Scripture or override the gospel in your praise God. All that's true, but is just like the elephant in the room that we refuse to acknowledge is there and that was very disappointing and I think the resolutions committee failed the convention at this point and I I think most of that we had more messenger show up that we've had in two decades to Nashville's convention and we had more first-time messengers for from more churches than we typically have, I think was like 50% more churches represented that is typical at this convention and that income because they were just interested in seeing the city of Nashville. They came because of critical race theory being so deadly in its poisoned and spreading culture and the fact that we have said they mentioned and leads you to let that happen. The Christian world you returns in just a moment. Courtney was 17 weeks pregnant when she and her husband Greg learned that their son Sheppard had a heart condition that would require multiple surgeries and were uncertain about his future Samaritan connected with another Samaritan members who began to pray and share the financial needs of the pregnancy and the medical care.
Sheppard could've answered differently done any better confidence I found have not consented your family well, safely God's Sheppard and surpassing all of the doctors expecting to read more about this family's journey about how you can join a community of believers like visit Samaritan ministry's.org/TC David Wheaton here to tell you about a special offer on my boy Ben Ben was a yellow lab and inseparable companion back when I was competing in the Pro tennis tour. I invite you to enter the story in its tapestry of relationships with Ben and my aging parents with a childhood friend I would eventually marry and ultimately with God whose gospel and grace because all things, even the hard things to work together for good order assigned and personalized copy for yourself or for a friend who loves dogs or someone you know who needs to hear about God's grace in the gospel. My boy Ben is owned by the Christian real view, it is 264 pages, hardcover, and retails for 1899+ shipping for a limited time we are offering it for a donation of any amount to the Christian world you go to the Christian were viewed.org or call one AAA eight 646-2233. That's the Christian were.org thanks for joining us on the Christian world just a reminder that today's program and pass programs are archived at our website. Christian worldview.org things are also available and be sure to share with others. Now back to today's program with host David Wheaton. Another issue that came up had to do with abortion. Someone brought forward or brought forward a resolution on the complete abolition of abortion that this is should be something that Southern Baptist should support and was a resistance to that ended that pass yeah well again. The resolutions committee, cited they were not going to bring it out because they didn't like the whole call for the abolition complete abolition of abortion, the men who framed that resolution got to the microphone to spout my brother Bill asked was a pastor in Oklahoma and Owosso Oklahoma. He's actually was the spokesman and was able to overrule the lead the convention to overrule the decision of the committee not to bring out so you get two thirds vote. That's a hard thing to do. Especially when you don't have any denominational machinery behind you, which he in this group did not, but they were able to persuade the messengers on the floor to overrule the committee to bring this resolution out for a vote and it was debated and there were ethicists that spoke against it to me. There were seminary professors and spoke against it. It was really sad but nevertheless it passed.
And so now we have this resolution calling for the abolishment of abortion all on the books. I'm grateful for it. But even in the last few days there been multiple articles written by one by a woman who was on the resolutions committee and another by a group of ethicists and Pat theologians in the SBC say that this is a really bad resolution. This is bad. We shouldn't be staking out this position which I think just this describes it reveals another fault line that exists among Southern Baptists and the broader evangelical world again. Tom Haskell joins us today on the Christian world you you mentioned earlier about people in the southern Baptist convention really anywhere within professing Christian dumb will talk about. They believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, the sufficiency of Scripture and the infallibility of Scripture, the talk about confessional statements and so forth. I believe the Bible but then language is used and their actions are very different.
They have a different interpretation.
I may be the topic you're discussing. Of of of race or critical race theory or pick your topic of of women in in teaching leadership within churches and they come to completely different conclusions.
How was someone listening today to be able to discern when someone claims to be one thing but then does another thing I think it's very confusing to try to understand where people stand what what is your recommendation as a pastor as to how people can be more discerning with what's going on within the church. It was a great question is much needed in a politically we seen it back when Bill Clinton was president. I remember there were those who are conservative politically say don't listen to what he says. Watch what he does and that's always good counsel people can save a variety of things but it's what they do, that we really need to focus on to let us know what they actually believe and we are ages of postmodern age, and though I don't know many Christians would talk about your my truth versus your truth that is the lingua franca of the world. Everybody has their own truth we should just be willing to move along the road. In light of it, though the church won't say that practically that's what were doing lima complementarity, but I believe in women preachers okay I'm a compliment. I don't believe in women preachers while I'm against CRT and I believe CRTs incompatible with the gospel and with the Bible.
But hey, systemic racism is a thing. There's no doubt about it, and the structural racism is it is absolutely true.
You have to accept that or you just completely blind and ignorant versus you live. I think CRT is contrary to the word of God and contrary to the gospel as well. And whenever you want about structural racism, structural and systemic racism can we look at what you're talking about. We ask the questions without being accused of being racist by having questions and look at the data and actually try to have a simple, honest conversation about this, we may see things differently, but we ought at least be able to talk about it. Whereas the world you that arises from this critical race, ideology, race theory theology says no, no to question it is to show your white fragility to question it is to prove that you're guilty of it. You're complicit in it so that's the thing you have to keep asking questions.
You know what's behind this and and what do you mean by this and what you saying and what does this mean in light of the Scripture. So one simple thing. The people God can do is look at confessions of faith beyond modern ones so semi-tells me that they signed Danvers and Nashville and lakes on the bad faith message I want to know what you think about the New Hampshire confession of faith, what you think about 1689, a second baddest London confession of faith.
The Westminster confession of faith. Now that's no guarantee either because we got people that are advocating even those ancient confessions of faith who nevertheless are riding on this train of critical theory, critical race theory wildness as well. But you just have to drill down and ask the questions and if they rule the questions out of order will then you you have some flags go up in your mind because if Christians can't have honest reasonable conversations about the meaning of words and concepts because to do so is inherently racist or inherently misogynist or bigoted. You know were operating on two different standards at that point Tomas go with us again on the Christian review today final question for you Tom, thank you for for taking the time to give us a recap of what took place at the Southern Baptist convention tell us about that. The one day conference that founders ministries held at the convention that the theme was be it resolved and also tell us about the upcoming doc you series titled wield the sword and when that's going to be released yes well thanks for asking about that on Monday before the SBC began officially on Tuesday morning founders ministries and the Institute of public theology which is a new ministry of founders sponsored this conference call, be it resolved and the point was taking language from formal resolutions to argue that what we need are no law will need more resolutions are pastor defeated on the floor. The convention we need the kind of resolve that we see in the Scripture, the resolve of Joshua who said, choose you this day whom you're sorry but as for me and my house were to serve the Lord resolve that we see with Elijah you know if Bales or God than serve them. But if God is God's servant him so we set a panel of speakers we had one speaker after the other for the whole day and that Amanda sold about a week of sold hundreds more tickets if we had the space and will get those recordings up on our website soon. Again this was sponsored by the Institute of public theology, primarily, and that's something that founders is developed recently with our classes beginning in the fall of Cody Baucom, Tom nettles, myself dear Longshore, the founding faculty we created this because we see the need for that kind of resolution we neatly see the need for a rock ribbed commitment to Scripture that is unashamed and unwilling to bowel or bend or budge in the face of the onslaught of the world and that's that's the same thing behind the wield the sword efforts that you mentioned as well.
We started this in the wake of the by what standard documentary you can find that on our YouTube channel founders ministries YouTube channel and you can find the first five of these episodes on the wield the sword. This is a design. This is a positive kind of teaching ministry where we deal with things like the word in the world that commanded womanhood was a Bible mean by vocation. What about aesthetics, what about education the church family sexuality culture.
We got 15 of these topics that over the next two years were to release these 30 minutes when hour-long teachings to help churches that Christians think rightly about the world in which we live from and an unapologetic commitment to the authority and the sufficiency and the clarity of Scripture. So you get, you find firstname.lastname@example.org as well. Tom, thank you. Just for coming on the Christian really.
But even more just for what you mention your last answer about having and holding and encouraging exhorting others to have this such a strong conviction on really our only foundation for truth which is the word of God. God, Scripture, and that we think you for all that you're doing at your church and within the Southern Baptist convention and that founders ministries so all of God's best in grace to you will thank you David appreciate that you have Miller show Bridget what you're doing as well will I hope you enjoyed the interview with Tom Haskell today.
Again, he's a senior pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral Florida and the president of founders ministries founders.org is the website and if you're interested in getting a copy of the documentary that she and founders ministries did on the 2019 Southern Baptist convention with regard to critical race theory. It's well worth watching. You can order it from us at the Christian Realty is entitled by what standard disco to our website the Christian real if you.org or give us a call at one AAA eight 646-2233. I really like Tomas go. She really battles for truth and yet he still gracious to those with whom he disagrees.
It's a good example for all of us knows get to some summary thoughts on today's program that the title of today's program was confession without conviction. What is that mean well, in view of this program today is not being used confession as confessing sin agreeing with God that you have sinned against him that the way this term confessing your confession is being used is with regard to confessing or saying something agreeing with something as true verbally and then without conviction it means, then practicing something differently so confessing something is true, but not having the conviction to actually live out or practice what your confessing is true.
Here's an example of confession Tomas call reference the 1689 London Baptist confession. The first point reads like this. The holy Scripture is the only sufficient certain and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith and obedience so that was just the first sentence. So what happens is you have lots of Christians who may adhere to that confession about holy Scriptures and say their inerrant and infallible and inspired. But then they don't interpret Scripture or practice it as if they believe what they confess. I have a piece of audio that I think illustrates it well. It's from Danny Aiken. He is the president of the Southeastern Baptist theological seminary, one of the six seminaries of the Southern Baptist convention, he first makes a confession about his Orthodox beliefs, but then says one's background influences how one interprets Scripture as if that's okay when in reality your background should matter at all. It should have any influence on how you interpret Scripture because were all trying to get at God's one intended meaning of his work when IT terminates in particular one of the things I will point out is that none of us is a blank slate when it comes to interpreting the Bible we all come to the Bible with a particular perspective. Presuppositions a particular worldview and I will say something like this. Danny Aiken cannot help the fact that he come to the Bible as a white male married who comes from the deep South who has rocksolid convictions and commitments about the supernatural worldview about the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible and he was committed to orthodox Christianity and finds he is only worldview in terms of theology well reflected in the Baptist Faith and message. 2000.
The abstract principles Chicago statement on biblical inerrancy.
The damper statement on Biblical manhood and womanhood as a national statement on gender and gender identity, and/acknowledge that that's who I am okay so what Danny Aiken is doing here is saying that he is sound biblically, he agrees with all these confessions of faith. But here's what he says next, I think we do better when we sit down to read the Bible and we have brothers or sisters coming from all different ethnicities all different socioeconomic standing because there have insights into this infallible and errant text that I for example will make us safer because of who I hate where I flailed right where I was born what I've studied and who I'm influenced by its subtle do you see what that opens the door to it opens the door to saying well we really can't rightly and accurately handle the word of truth, and thus we have people of diverse backgrounds. So we do have some white people, when you have some black people.
We need to have some poor people some rich people some Hispanics and Asians in order to accurately interpret the word, which of course is false. Anyone no matter what their background is can accurately interpret Scripture through the leading of the Holy Spirit through hearing.
Sound preachers interpret Scripture, and through comparing Scripture with Scripture. So this is undermining what Danny Aiken is saying here. This is what it means to be confessional but not have conviction that the word can be rightly interpreted, no matter who you are. So just in summary, Christian. We have to be so discerning. Even with those who profess to be confessional of orthodox biblical Christianity. In fact, Paul says this in Romans chapter 16 he says now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned in turn away from them and then you get stronger. He says in verse 18. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Jesus Christ, but of their own appetites and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting non-not going to ascribe those motives to Danny Aiken but you can see how what he said opens up the door to this idea of equity. We need fair representation on a denominational border or a church board of those of different backgrounds just because that's the way we can understand Scripture. And there's just no biblical basis for that.
So don't be deceived, don't be unsuspecting pray to God asking him to help you accurately handle his word of truth. Thank you for listening today. You can hear past programs and order resources and support the ministry or become a monthly partner by going to thought Christian and you.org can remember while you're there, click on the Samaritan and banner.
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