Eternal Security: Once Saved, Always Saved?

Eternal Security. Once Saved, Always Saved. Todd Friel, host of Wretched Radio and Television, joins us today right here on the Christian Worldview Radio Program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ.

I'm David Wheaton, the host of the program, and our website is thechristianworldview.org. Well, thank you for joining us this weekend on the program to discuss the very important doctrine of eternal security. It says in Romans chapter 8—and this is probably one of the most paramount passages on this doctrine of eternal security in Romans 8, 38, and 39—it says, I am convinced, Paul writes, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God. I'm referring to believers there, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Now, the last two weeks on the program we have discussed the topics of discernment and apostasy. Discernment is the call for the believer to measure everything, especially spiritual teachers and their teachings, against the truth of Scripture, so that sound doctrine can be elevated and errant doctrine can be exposed and removed. When discernment is not exercised, all manner of false teaching fills the vacuum, leading the church into this second topic, which we discussed last weekend, apostasy, which is a departing or falling away from the primary doctrines of the faith, such as the character and nature of God and the person and work of Jesus Christ.

When those get corrupted, it corrupts it. The question that arises when discussing apostasy is, can a true Christ follower depart the faith into apostasy? This would be the person who outwardly professes faith in Christ and appears to live the Christian life, maybe attends church and reads the Bible, teaches or serves in ministry, but then just walks away from it or starts unrepentantly practicing sin or even promoting heretical doctrines. This weekend on the Christian Rule of View, in a follow-up to Discernment and Apostasy, Todd Friel, host of Wretched Radio and Television, joins us to discuss the issue of eternal security and whether the believer is once saved, always saved.

Todd was recently here in Minnesota, and he came into the Christian Rule of View, and here's the first segment of that interview. Tell us your background and tell us how you became a follower of Christ. To those atheists who would say, you just grew up in a Christian home, so you're a Christian, that would not be the case for me. I did not grow up in a Christian home at all. I think I was baptized, Episcopalian, as a baby. Don't remember it, and all I did was get wet that day, but nevertheless, a number of years later, I was taken to church. I'd always had a horrible fear of death.

It was just overwhelming for me at a young age, and so when I was taken to church in about eighth grade and I heard, I can go to heaven, I was all in. There was just a problem. I really hadn't repented and put my trust in Jesus Christ, so I went off to study to become a pastor, but I wasn't actually saved.

There's a problem! So after I graduated, I ended up doing business stuff and some stand-up comedy, et cetera, and then God graciously saved me, and that's why I'm sitting here today. Todd Friel with us today in the Christian Rule of View. So just one question about coming back to Minnesota here. What's it like to be back in Minnesota after you spent most of your life here, I believe it was?

And how do you think, looking back, how did God use your time here to shape you? It's Midwestern. We live in Atlanta now.

It is a zoo there. There are people everywhere constantly. When we actually transported down from St. Paul to Atlanta, Georgia, we were on Highway 75 and we had walkie-talkies. My wife was in front and she was doing about 60 miles an hour, and I said, sweetheart, you've got to speed up a lot.

You're causing problems here. We hit 80, and we were still getting past. We come back here, and while it's definitely busier now in the Twin Cities, it's Midwestern. There's Midwestern sensibilities. There's less of an emphasis on external presentation here, and it's just a little bit slower and calmer. And it gives me a sense of appreciation, I think, for what really matters in life is not the theater and the hustle and the bustle and the skyscrapers. It's just family, friends, fellow believers.

That's the sweet stuff of life. So, Todd, tell us about Wretched Radio and TV and the purpose behind the ministry. Yeah, I basically just find a really popular sermon and repeat it word for word, which is kind of the trend these days in churches. Wretched has got a threefold purpose. We want to preach the gospel as often as we can, equip the saints to share their faith, and to strengthen the local church by pointing people toward a local body because that's where the real Christian work gets done. You've known this. You do radio.

I do it. This isn't where the real spiritual depth work takes place. It's in the context of a local church. So we want to encourage people to become a member of a Bible-based church. So that's our threefold purpose. So what do you think the importance of Christian radio is? The Christian worldview of Wretched, what do you think they do? It can be tremendously helpful to the local church. When I first got, okay, here's a shameful moment. When we first started doing radio together at KKMS, the Cinderblock Bunker in the middle of a field, I thought the local church needed me.

That is 180 backwards. We need to be supporting and encouraging the local church. And if a radio program focuses on that, it can be very helpful. You're preaching this weekend in the Twin Cities here on eternal security, the idea of once you're saved, you're always saved. Why is that an important topic?

It's huge. A number of years ago, we invited people because we were hearing from enough folks who were lacking assurance. It's a complicated issue, but we set up an email address, saved at wretched.org. It doesn't work anymore because we got inundated from people who were confused about the state of their soul. They were terrified about the afterlife, even though they think they believed in Jesus. And it dawned on me, there's just a lot of folks who have not discovered this glorious doctrine. Charles Spurgeon said he used to love to preach on this subject, I think more than anything else. It is a joyous subject. If we were going to make up one doctrine that would be like really good for us, this would be it. You're going nowhere.

Nobody's going to pluck you out of his hand. It is a glorious doctrine. And so I like preaching this because it encourages people in their walk.

Absolutely. Todd Friel with us today on the Christian Royal View, the host of Wretched Radio and Wretched Television. Their website is wretched.org.

You can find out more by going there. So what is the biblical basis? Because this doctrine is resisted, surprisingly enough, even though you say it's a great news doctrine. What is the biblical basis that once someone is truly regenerated, born again, justified, come to Christ, repents and believes in the gospel, trusts in Christ for salvation, however you want to say it, what is the biblical basis that they can never lose that salvation, even if they seemingly go off on a way that wouldn't be honoring to God? To our brothers and sisters who do not believe this doctrine, they believe that salvation can be lost.

I don't think that they're knuckleheads. There are verses in the Bible that seem to present themselves like you can lose it. Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10 comes to mind where it looks like you believe, but you could maybe not believe someday. So we do have verses. There are at least a handful of those verses. And on the other side, you have got a mountain of verses that I believe make it clear.

No, no, when you get saved, it's God who saves you, it's God who keeps you, it's God who is going to glorify you, it's God who's going to keep you adopted and his family doesn't un-adopt you. And so I look at, we go back to the Reformation and remember a Reformation principle when it comes to interpreting Scripture, which is, Scripture interprets Scripture, the analogy of Scripture. You've got two verses that appear to say differing things.

How do you resolve it? The clear interprets the unclear. And because if you were going to put these verses on a scale, there are verses that appear to say you can lose your salvation.

But then you put it like a gigantic gold weight on the other side, which just tips the scale. So now I believe what we have are overwhelming verses that make it clear we can't be lost any more than we can get ourselves saved. And then I interpret those unclear in light of those and I make them everything harmonized because the Bible can't contradict itself. I think your point about adoption is a powerful case for eternal security because if you think about it, there's nothing my own son can do to not be my own son. It's the same thing as God adopts us into his family as sons and daughters in his family. He can't un-adopt us.

He just wouldn't do that. It's not consistent with his character. The Puritans loved the doctrine of adoption. You rarely hear it these days.

Yes. Again, Todd Friel with us today on the Christian Real View. So why is there so much resistance to the doctrine of eternal security and really where does that resistance come from?

Who are the folks that resist it? There's really three views. We'll leave the free grace view alone. It's kind of a future justification. We'll leave that alone.

It's smaller. Conditional security would be the side of good people. William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias, A.W. Tozer, evangelicals who believe that you can lose it. So think Dallas Theological Seminary.

Again, good folks. But they take a look at those verses that I think are outweighed by the other clear verses and they put a little bit more weight in those. And honestly, David, I don't know why you'd want to argue against this because the thought of me keeping myself saved is not going to happen. So I love this doctrine and where we're going to focus our time and our study on Sunday morning is going to be in Romans 8. It's Paul's magnum opus.

It is undoubtedly the diamond in the treasure chest of God's word. And when you get to Romans chapter 8, it just gets hammered home and drubbed home because Paul has been building the case. Every time you read about justification in Romans 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, going into chapter 8, it's all beforehand.

Your justification happened beforehand. It is a past tense completed act and it's always passive, by the way. It happens to you. You don't act on yourself. You don't make it happen.

It happens to you and it's always past tense. So he builds the case in Romans 1 through 7 and then it's a crescendo in Romans chapter 8. There is nothing that can separate you from the love of Christ.

Nothing. And then he gives two major lists where he makes it laundry lists, if you will, with the greatest extremes possible, not height nor depth. And then he caps it off by saying not angels or principalities or any other created thing can separate you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus.

That's like the note that just soars and it should be one that we listen to often because we can wobble and we can get weak need. And this doctrine, especially Romans 8, 38 and 39, drive a stake through this doctrine and nail it to the wall. What makes us weak need, even for a believer who's been a believer for a lot of years, what makes us all of a sudden doubt? Okay, you're listening to an interview with Todd Friel today, the host of Wretched Radio and Television here on The Christian Rule of Your Radio program as we discuss the issue of eternal security. And Todd will answer that question about what makes us doubt our salvation.

He will answer that right after this first break of the day here in the program. By the way, just a quick note, I said that he'll be preaching this Sunday. This was recorded about one week ago, the day before he preached. So he's not in town this weekend if you were thinking you could go to hear him preach, but you can hear that message online. And I'm going to be playing some of it and giving a summary of it today here on The Christian Rule of Your Radio.

So we have a lot more to get to. Stay tuned, a lot more coming up. I'm David Wheaton. The first is The Christian Worldview weekly email, which comes to your inbox each Friday. It contains a preview of the upcoming radio program along with need-to-read articles, featured resources, special events, and audio of the previous program. The second is The Christian Worldview annual print letter, which is delivered to your mailbox in November. It contains a year-end letter from host David Wheaton and a listing of our store items, including DVDs, books, children's materials, and more. You can sign up for the weekly email and annual print letter by visiting thechristianworldview.org or calling 1-888-646-2233.

Your email and mailing address will never be shared, and you can unsubscribe at any time. Call 1-888-646-2233 or visit thechristianworldview.org. Think biblically and live accordingly. That's what we try to do every weekend here on The Christian Worldview radio program. I'm David Wheaton, the host. Our website is thechristianworldview.org. You've been listening the last couple weeks. You'll know that we have a couple new featured resources.

We'd love to get into your hands. They're two DVDs, both by Mike Gendron, our guest of the last two weeks in the program. One is on discernment, the death of discernment, why discernment is so critical for Christians in the church today. There's two messages on that DVD. And also the second DVD is about apostasy, and specifically using the case example of the Roman Catholic Church, churches drift into apostasy. There's two messages on that DVD as well. Each DVD retails for $15, but we're offering each for a donation of any amount, either for a donation of any amount.

If you want both, we'd just recommend a donation of about $30 or more. You can order these at our website, thechristianworldview.org, or just by calling us in our office at 1-888-646-2233. That information will be given again throughout the program today. Our topic today, going from discernment to apostasy, causes the question of what about someone?

Is it possible for someone who's a Christian to go into apostasy, to lose their salvation, so to speak? We're discussing the issue of eternal security today, and our guest is Todd Friel. He is the host of Wretched Radio and Television.

They get the name from the song Saved a Wretch Like Me. He used to live here in Minnesota. He was up visiting the state and came into the studio. We discussed this topic last weekend before he preached here in town.

Let's get back to the second segment of the interview with Todd Friel. Even for a believer who's been a believer for a lot of years, what makes us all of a sudden doubt? I think life can be hard sometimes, and people can get challenged. I think in the West, we get so busy. There used to be another doctrine, a spiritual discipline that we would talk about, that never is really discussed these days called watchfulness.

Brian Hedges wrote an excellent book on that. It's well worth everybody's time, where you dedicate your time, your energy to making sure that you are disciplined to watch for the state of your soul. How many men that are good preachers have we seen stumble? They were not being watchful.

They were being self-deceived. So I think lack of watchfulness, life beating in on us, the cares of the day, you don't tend to your soul, and you're going to be in trouble. Todd Friel with us today in the Christian worldview talking about eternal security, once saved, always saved.

Is that true? Is that what the Bible teaches? He is the host of Wretched Radio and Wretched Television.

Their website is Wretched.org. Now how does free will enter into this issue of eternal security? Because we're saved by God's grace, and yet we're called to repent and believe.

That's a tension there. It's hard to resolve in our finite mind. So if we have some free will with regard to salvation, don't we have the free will to say, you know, I don't believe that anymore.

I can depart from what I previously, the commitment I made. Well, it depends on how you define free will. If you mean I am making totally independent decisions with no external influence, I'm not sure the Bible supports that concept. Ever since the fall, Luther said our will is in bondage to Satan. So do we get to make genuine choices?

Absolutely. Whether or not we have a free will, I'm more inclined to think we really don't have a free will. But the Bible is clear.

The choices we make, they are genuine, and we will be held accountable. And the Bible is also clear. It is God alone who saves. Can you harmonize those two?

Spurgeon said, I don't need to harmonize friends. They get along just fine. Maybe not in your mind, but in God's mind they do. So we get to make genuine decisions, but God is sovereign over everything. John MacArthur actually was at a KKMS event a number of years ago, and he was asked basically the same question.

And he said, let me ask you a question. So I'm going to play John MacArthur, David, and you be the audience. Who is responsible for your sanctification? Well, I would answer that by saying that God is, but it is God who works in you both to will and to do his good pleasure. You know, work out your old salvation with fear and trembling. So I think it's the same issue there. There's that tension there between it is God and the Spirit within me.

That's the one working, but I'm also called to work it out as well. But not I, but Christ who lives within me. God is sanctifying you. And yet in this synergistic effort, you're genuinely involved in it, but you get no credit for it. And so Dr. MacArthur did a list of those to demonstrate we've got major concepts in the Bible that are difficult for us.

And so he didn't really resolve the question as much as he just spread it out a lot. And that shouldn't cause the believer to get wobbly. If you could understand everything about God, congratulations, you would be God and God wouldn't exist. There have got to be some, the doctrine of the Trinity is another one. It's a demonstration that this is not a made up religion because we wouldn't make this up. And if we could get everything, then there really wouldn't be anything greater than us.

And it's all a test of faith, which is the means God uses to test whether we will believe in what he said, even if we don't fully understand how to reconcile those two issues. Again, Todd Friel with us today on the Christian worldview. I want to just in the last few questions, Todd, want to do a SWOT analysis. The strengths, weaknesses, the opportunities and threats within evangelicalism right now. There's been a lot going on within the last year.

I know you've been covering it on your radio and television programs. Some hotly contested issues, such as the social justice movement, especially with regard to race. Homosexuality and transgenderism being integrated just into the evangelical church in some ways that you can somehow be a gay or same sex attracted Christian. Women teaching men has been one that's been around for a long time. The New Apostolic Reformation, we had you on the program to talk about the influence of that extreme charismatic movement on evangelical church.

Maybe you could just look at the evangelical movement right now and look at some of the strengths of it, the weaknesses of it, where there are some opportunities and what are some severe threats to it. You're going to have to remind me of those SWOT acronyms. So successes, is that it? Strengths, exactly.

I wish I had short-term memory. Strengths of the evangelical movement, even though right now we're seeing a divide in conservative circles. We're seeing the neo-reformed movement demonstrating that it didn't really reform in a lot of its theology and it's becoming increasingly liberal. It's the continuationist position that's cracked open the door for additional revelation, God speaking to us, I've got a word about you, David, God gave it to me, etc.

So we see all of that going on and we can go, oh, that's terrible. But there is a growing number of believers. Jesus is building his church and I travel around enough to know there are good churches in this country and people are flooding to them.

And interestingly, Justin Peters, I think you've had Justin in your program, we were having dinner and discussing this whole racial issue that's very contentious right now. And he said in his Southern drawl, Todd, I travel all over the globe and when I find myself in kind of a squishy church, it's lily white. But when I go to a Bible-based expository preaching church, it's salt and pepper. And I thought, I think he's right because I think of my church too. Good preaching attracts believers and so there's good guys out there that are preaching the word verse by verse and those churches are growing.

And so, yeah, we're seeing a lot of kind of falling away, if you will, but there's still a growing church. Todd, thank you for that and thank you for coming on The Christian World View and all you're doing to advance and elevate Christ and his word in your ministry and your family. So thank you and all of God's best and grace to you. Always a pleasure, grateful for you, David.

Thank you, Todd. OK, Todd Friel, everyone, you can find out more about his radio and television ministry at wretched.org. And if you missed any of the interview today, we always, of course, post it at our website, thechristianworldview.org. And we'll also, I don't think I put the link to his message that he gave last Sunday here in the Twin Cities on this topic of eternal security. But we will put that up there as well. I'm going to play a soundbite from it later in the program today.

So I'd like to open up the phone lines starting now and going into the next segment. Just take a few phone calls on this issue of eternal security. Why do you think people resist the doctrine of eternal security that once God saves you, you will always be saved? In other words, you will never depart from the faith. You will never choose to go away from God. You may sin. There's no question we continue to sin after we're truly justified or saved, but we never depart, walk away from the faith. Why do people resist that? What is the basis on which they resist that? Our studio number here is 1-877-655-6755.

1-877-655-6755. Your thoughts on the doctrine of eternal security and why it is often resisted. While Bobby is going to be getting some calls up on the call screening board, I just want to make a distinction between someone who is falsely converted and an apostate. We talked about apostasy last week on the program. What's the difference between a false convert and an apostate? A false convert is someone who professes to be saved but doesn't possess genuine saving faith. This is what Christ talked about in Matthew 7. He says, Not everyone who says to me or professes, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, Many will profess again, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? In your name cast out demons, in your name perform many miracles.

And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. That's a false convert. That's someone who thinks they're saved but isn't truly saved. The apostate is the same plus something else. They're a professor, they don't possess it, but they also propagate or teach a false gospel and false doctrines. This can be an individual, it can be a church, it can be a parachurch.

They're undermining actively the faith. More after this. Be sure to take advantage of two free resources that will keep you informed and sharpen your world view. The first is the Christian World View weekly email which comes to your inbox each Friday. It contains a preview of the upcoming radio program along with need to read articles, featured resources, special events and audio of the previous program. The second is the Christian World View annual print letter which is delivered to your mailbox in November. It contains a year end letter from host David Wheaton and a listing of our store items including DVDs, books, children's materials and more. You can sign up for the weekly email and annual print letter by visiting thechristianworldview.org or calling 1-888-646-2233.

Your email and mailing address will never be shared and you can unsubscribe at any time. Call 1-888-646-2233 or visit thechristianworldview.org. Okay, back on the Christian World View radio program as we discuss eternal security.

I'm David Wheaton, the host. You just heard an interview by Todd Friel about this glorious reassuring doctrine that once you are genuinely converted, you cannot lose your salvation. You will not depart because God will keep you. And we're asking the question just briefly here before we get into some more summary remarks on this, why is this doctrine resisted? Now, as Todd said in the interview and in his message last Sunday, there are lots of verses that point towards eternal security, supporting that particular position. And there are a few, some not nearly as many, but some that we're going to get into those, especially in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10, which we'll discuss in a minute, that you can't. But as you take everything in context, just from a preponderance of evidence standpoint, it's much heavier on the side of eternal security. So why do people resist this doctrine?

Let's go first to Richmond, Virginia. And Art, welcome to the Christian World View. Your thoughts on eternal security.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. So I think 6 and 10 in Hebrews, as you said, is definitely problematic. Also, there's verses like this, for instance, Hebrews 3, 12 says, And so it seems there is a sense of, you know, why would we need to warn one another, because there's a sense of sin hardening us and being able to depart from the living God. And it seems, you know, the follow-ups, there's lots of verses that kind of do the if, you know, if indeed you believe into the end, if indeed you suffer with Him. And I think when people see those kinds of verses, it puts the question in the back of their mind. Yeah.

Art, I appreciate that call. Good points all around. Let's go down to Midland, Texas, and Justin, welcome to the Christian World View. Your thoughts on this issue of eternal security and perhaps why it's resisted.

Yes, thank you so much for having me on the air. My name is Justin Roy, and in my walk I've been serving Jesus for about two years, and I have found that when Paul is talking about, in Ephesians 2, about being sealed by the Holy Spirit, being our guarantee of our inheritance, and then you look at verses like, another verse was, we've been adopted as children into a new family. Could it be that if we could lose our salvation, then that would make our adoption temporary, and that would make what comes out of Ephesians 2 completely not true?

So this doctrine of, you know, you could lose your salvation once saved is, in my opinion, heresy. Justin, I appreciate your call. I gotta let you go. We have other callers we want to get to, but welcome to the family of God. It's great to hear that you're a new believer, and obviously someone's been teaching you pretty well about the issue of adoption and what God promises He keeps.

Let's go to one more call for now, down to Mississippi. Wayne, welcome to the Christian Real View. Your thoughts on eternal security.

Yes sir, brother. I've always been taught, and always read myself, that Christ died once for all. And if I could lose the salvation that Jesus gave me as a believer, He would have to come back and die again. Yes sir, and when He said eternal life, sir, yes sir, I believe it's eternal.

No question, no doubt. Wayne, that's an excellent point, I appreciate your call. John 3.16, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe in Him should not perish but have eternal life. In other words, there's a guarantee of eternal life. So let's take what some of these callers have said, and Todd said in his message that, why do we resist this?

Well, we like to earn things. We like to have a sense that we earned our salvation, and then we earn our sanctification. There's a pride issue there that, look, I made a choice to put my faith in Christ for salvation, well then I can put a choice in if I want to lose it.

It's putting ourselves in the position of the authority there. I think he said, secondly, that people really struggle, that God could love us that much even when we sin after we're saved. In other words, He knows all our skeletons in our closet, He knows the things we've done wrong, He knows our thoughts, and we just think, you know, a true Christian shouldn't be this way, shouldn't be sinning. But that's not what Scripture says. Yes, you will sin, you won't practice it, the true believer won't practice it, it won't be the unrepentant practice of their life.

They will come when they sin to God in repentance and confession and receive by faith the forgiveness that He has promised for our past sins, our present sins, and even our future sins that we even haven't committed yet. And then the third reason people resist this is because some of the passages that people refer to in Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10, and we're going to go over those in just a second here. So let's actually get to that issue of these passages in Hebrews 6 and 10. Todd didn't read them just for sake of time, but I'm going to read the one from Hebrews 6 that says, Therefore, leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. In this we will do if God permits. In other words, he's talking to believers here, let's not go back to these basic things about having to repent from works that don't save you and so forth.

Let's move past that. And then here it comes in verse 4 of chapter 6 of Hebrews, where this questionable, who is this person? He says, For in the case of those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain, which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation, useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God.

But if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. So this passage, if you read this, you could take that as, well, people who have once been enlightened, and they've tasted of the heavenly gift, and they've been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, they tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, that sounds and looks like a true Christian. It seems that way just by reading the passage.

But you have to look at the context, what comes before and what comes afterwards. This is very close to being a Christian, but I don't believe the context allows for this to be a true Christian who has departed, who has chosen to leave the faith. And I'll give you the perfect example of this case, whereas it says in verse 4, for in the case, what is the case?

Here is an example of the case. Judas, one of Christ's own disciples. Now, think about him. He fit every single one of those things perfectly, perfectly, and he wasn't a true believer. He knew he had been enlightened about Christ, he knew about Christ, he had tasted Christ's teaching, he had seen his miracles, he had partaken of the work of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit was working all around in the midst of Christ, he had partaken of that, been around it, but then he fell away. And the Bible says he was never truly saved. He didn't depart from the faith, he had never been truly saved. And this is what it says in John 17 when Christ prays to his Father.

It says that exact thing. This is the case. Holy Father, keep them in your name, the name which you have given me, that they may be one even as we are. While I was with them, I was keeping them. This is the sense of eternal security. I was keeping them. God keeps us. Christ keeps us.

I was keeping them in your name, which you have given me. And I guarded them, and not one of them perished but the Son of Perdition, that's Judas, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. The Son of Perdition means he was cast away to hell, because he was never truly saved. So our eternal security for the believer is based on God's character and God's promises, not your ability to remain true to him.

Because you really can't do that. If it was up to you, you couldn't save yourself, as Scripture says, and you can't keep yourself saved. You just don't have the power and the ability to do that, but God does. So just consider this sequence from Romans 8, 29, and 30, right before the passage that we read today on eternal security in 8, 30, 8, and 39. This is 29 and 30, just a few verses before that, which is really the critical passage on eternal security in Scripture, although there's many, which I'll get to in a second. It says in Romans 8, 29, and 30, Now just watch all these words here, watch the progression. For those whom God foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom he predestined, he also called, and these whom he called, he also justified, and these whom he justified, he also glorified.

It's all God doing something, and it's all God doing something in eternity past all the way to eternity future. So just look at these words, foreknew. This means not just knowing in advance, it's a pre-determining to save someone. It's not just foreknew us, but he foreloved those who would come to saving faith. That's what that word means. So in eternity past, before the believer was even born, God had already determined to save that person, not based on anything how they were so special and how good they would be or how much they would faithfully follow God.

No, nothing to do with that. It's because of God's graciousness for reasons which we don't know. He predetermined some to be saved. He didn't have to.

He didn't have to save anyone. We'd all deserve judgment in hell, but by his grace, he predetermined foreknew to save some. And then it goes from foreknew to God predestined. That means he marked out or appointed.

He determined beforehand. All these things are taking place even before the person is saved. We'll get back after this break and get to the rest of that list, that progression right after this. Here's Mike Gendron previewing his DVD on apostasy. We'll see how apostasy is the result of Satan's relentless attacks on the Church. We'll also look at four steps that characterize a Church's drift into apostasy. Then we'll look at the history of the Church, a chronological development of the Roman Catholic religion and its drift into apostasy.

And lastly and most importantly, what are you and I to do in the midst of this great apostasy and the growing ecumenical movement? The DVD is titled Roman Catholicism's Drift into Apostasy and contains two messages. You can order it for a donation of any amount to The Christian Worldview.

Normal retail is $15 plus shipping. Go to thechristianworldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Final segment of the day here on the Christian Worldview radio program.

I'm David Wheaton. We're talking about eternal security and whether once one is truly saved they're always saved or can you lose your salvation. And we're going over this passage in Romans 8, 29 and 30. For those whom God foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son. And it goes on to whom he predestined, he also called. And whom he called, he also justified.

And these whom he justified, he also glorified. That's from beginning to end, before the believer was even born. And we went over the fact that foreknew means that's what God does in a time, even before history began, he predetermined to save the believer. And the predestined to become conformed like the image of his Son, that's what he predestined that believer to do.

He marked out, he appointed, he determined beforehand, as one Bible commentator calls it, that that person who he's going to save, that he foreknew, would be conformed to the image of his Son, Jesus. And then he called that person. When that person was born at some time during their life, he called them. It's an effectual call to salvation, not just a general call to repent and believe the gospel.

No, it's actually a call that he called and that person will come, will respond to that call. The next point is, those he called, he also justified. This is a declaration of righteousness, where God declares the previously unregenerate righteous, as if that person has the righteousness of Christ. Because, like 2 Corinthians 5, 21, Christ covered, paid for all the believer's sins, past, present, and future, and so therefore now God sees that believer as being righteous, giving the righteousness of Christ, imputing it to that believer. Not to say that believer will never sin, but all those sins have been covered. This is a legal declaration that God has made. And lastly, those whom he's justified, he's also glorified. God's also seeing this.

This is what he's doing as well. He's going to glorify the believer someday. After you die, your physical body will decay and go on the ground, your soul and spirit will go to heaven, you'll get a new body, you'll be glorified and be in heaven with God someday. This is from eternity past to eternity future. Everything has been done by God. God can't break his promises in that incredible progressive chain. He's not going to unadopt, as one of our earlier callers says. Those he adopts into his family, he doesn't unadopt. He's not going to divorce if you're married to Christ.

There's not going to be a divorce. You can't lose your salvation because it's based on not you keeping it, but God keeping it in his promises. Yes, we do have responsibility to work out our own salvation and our sanctification with fear and trembling, but it's that synergy that was hard for us to understand.

But the foundation of that whole thing is, it's God doing it. John 10 26, there's so many verses on this, I'll go over some of them. John 10 26, my sheep, Christ says, hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give eternal life to them.

He doesn't give it and then take it back. And they will never perish, it says, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I and the Father are one. So the answer is, if one leaves the faith, the explanation for that is, they were just never genuinely converted. And that's hard for us to believe sometimes because we see things with our eyes and our ears and other people, and we just can't believe that someone can profess Christ and go to church and do Christian things, and yet reject it and walk away from it later.

But this is what Scripture says. Jesus said in Matthew 7, Matthew 13, the parable of the wheat and the tares, this is what the church is made up of, of true believers and false converts, those who have maybe an emotional decision or something that's not true salvation. And they may not even know it, and that's exactly why these passages in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10, that's why the writer of Hebrews is saying these things, because he doesn't know whether he's speaking to true believers or those who profess salvation but don't actually have it, so he's speaking to both of them.

He can't read people's hearts. So he says in Hebrews 6, verse 9, after that passage that's the debatable, can you lose your salvation, he says, But, beloved, now he's speaking to those of you who are true believers, we are convinced of better things concerning you. You're not going to walk away from the faith, things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking this way. For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward his name, and having ministered and still ministering to his saints, and we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Basically he's saying, look, I can't read anyone's heart here. It's possible to be a professing Christian but not possess genuine saving faith. Don't taste what you're tasting and depart from it. In other words, examine yourself to see whether you were in the faith. Examine how you were saved to see whether you had a true conversion.

Did you repent of your sin? Are you putting your faith in Christ alone for salvation? So I want to play one final soundbite here that Todd gave at the end of the message, because he said this message of eternal security is for believers. But then he said this at the end of his message. And I mentioned earlier, if you're not in Christ, none of this has been for you. But it could be this second. All of the promises that you have just heard about, they're available to you right now.

Not by signing a card, not by parroting a prayer, by walking an aisle. You call out to God this minute and he will save you and you say, no, he won't save me. I'm a murderer. Yep, he'll save you.

I took the life of my own child. He'll save you. I was a homosexual and in a lifestyle that was so perverted I don't even want to think, he'll save you. He will save you.

Come unto him if you are weary and heavy laden and he will give you rest. And what will he do? He will save you. He will sanctify you. He will adopt you into his family this minute. And he will never, ever let you go, because he's going to glorify you to Bute. And you are going to be eternally secure. So come let us reason together. If you hear his voice right now, do not harden your heart. Come unto this currently gentle Savior who invites you to come. He does not desire to go to war with you.

Why would he? Like a fire burning up a thistle patch. It's nothing to take you down.

It's nothing. Make no mistake about it. When Jesus returns, it is with his mighty angels. The rest of the verse in Romans 2, inflaming fire to pour out his wrath on everybody who refuses to repent, who practices evil deeds and lives for themselves. There will be trouble and calamity on that day. My friend, if you are here and you are not in Christ, you are going to beg the mountains to fall on you and crush you rather than facing the wrath of the Lamb. Don't delay. Even now people are pressing into the kingdom. You are not here by chance.

There's no such thing as luck. This is indeed a divine appointment for you this day. Come to Jesus, poor of spirit, broken, recognizing who you are and what you justly deserve from an Almighty God who is holy and righteous and just and he will not let any evil deed go unpunished. And you flee to his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and he will save you to the uttermost. You're not going to have to be a back row Baptist or just back row whatever denomination you are. You're going to be in the family of God, fully in the family of God. Thank you for joining us this weekend on the Christian Royal View. Until next weekend, think biblically and live accordingly. Our radio program that is furnished by the Overcomer Foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors. Request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount. Go to thechristianworldview.org or call us toll free at 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian World View. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly.