Are Reparations for Slavery Consistent with Repentance and Restitution? Part 1

Are reparations for slavery consistent with biblical repentance and restitution? Part one of that topic today here on the Christian Worldview Radio Program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith, in Jesus Christ.

I'm David Wheaton, the host of the program, and our website is thechristianworldview.org. Well, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Day is a national holiday that occurs at this time of year, commemorating Dr. King's impact on civil rights in this country, particularly equality for blacks. Now, decades after Dr. King, the issue of race and racism hasn't died down. In fact, race and racism are hot-button contentious issues today, not just in broader society, but also within evangelicalism as well. For example, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary recently issued a report on slavery and racism in the history of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, reaffirming a formal apology made back in 1995 for the seminary's, quote, participation in individual and systemic racism, unquote, in past eras. So whether in the nation or in the church, there is a growing call that more must be done than simply apologize for slavery, that reparations must be paid, whether in money and or benefits, to the descendants of those who were wronged generations ago. A graduate of Westminster Seminary said in response to the Southern Baptist Seminary report, quote, good first step. Now reparations are due, not only symbolically, but financially. This can take various forms, but nothing short of free tuition and student loan debt cancellation for Black Americans who attended and will attend SBTS in the future.

Reparations must follow repentance, unquote. Well, today in the Christian worldview, Darrell Harrison joins us. He's a former fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. He joins us to discuss whether there is a biblical basis for paying reparations for slavery, along with a host of other questions about race in society and the church today. Let's get straight to the first segment of that interview. Darrell, it's great to have you on the Christian worldview for the first time. I often ask first-time guests, tell us your three-minute life story, including how you became a follower of Christ. Well, David, first of all, thanks for having me on.

I really appreciate you inviting me to your program. Yeah, so my three-minute life story would begin with the fact that I grew up in the inner-city public housing projects of West Atlanta. I'm a native of Atlanta. I've lived in Atlanta all my life, so I've traveled all over the place throughout my career. I'm the middle child of three, and about a week after graduating high school, I enlisted in the United States Army, where I served a total of six years.

I am married with two adult children, Colin and Naomi. I became a follower of Christ in 1986 after visiting First Baptist Church of Atlanta. At the time, Dr. Charles Stanley was the senior pastor.

I believe Stanley is still the senior pastor there at FBA. And during that visit, I filled out a visitor's card, like you always do at all good Southern Baptist churches. And not long after that, though, I was visited at my apartment by two members of First Baptist Atlanta, who walked me through the Romanist Road to salvation. And that was the first time I'd ever heard the gospel presented in such a way as to bring me to the realization, or maybe even better, to the conviction that I am a sinner in need of salvation. So it was one night in my living room of my apartment back in February of 1986 that I came to faith in Christ and have been following him ever since. Well, thank you for sharing your story and how you became a follower of Christ, Daryl.

Daryl Harrison with us today on The Christian Real View. So let's start out with a fundamental question about just the definition of race. So how do you understand, biblically understand the concept of race? In other words, is everyone the same race, the human race? And we just have different, you know, skin pigmentations? Or is race, quote unquote, race, more complex than that?

It's definitely more complex than that, David. Biblically, race is spoken of in two distinct contexts. First, in terms of species or genus, such as what we find in James chapter three, chapter three, verse seven, where James writes, for every species of beasts and birds of reptiles and creatures of the sea is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. Now, in that verse in James three, seven, the words species and race are the same Greek noun.

It is a Greek noun, physis, t-h-y-s-i-s, and that Greek noun, physis, speaks to the nature or origin of a thing by birth. So that's one context in which we understand the word race biblically. Secondly, the Bible speaks of race in terms of ethnicity, such as what we find in Acts 17, verse 26, which reads, and he, that is God, made from every man, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation.

Now, the word nation there in Acts 17, 26 is the Greek noun ethnos, from which we get our English word ethnicity. So in one sense, we are all the same race in terms of our physical nature as human beings. But in another sense, we are not the same race in terms of ethnicity. But the problem with many today is that they are defining race, and I put that in air quotes, they're defining race in terms of skin color alone. But skin color is merely rather a sort of external characteristic of who we are as physical human beings, whereas ethnicity is a matter of blood, not skin color.

So in saying that, yes, race and the conversation around it is much more complex than skin color. Daryl Harrison with us today on The Christian Real View. He's a former fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. He blogs at JustThinking.me and I would really highly recommend you read his columns there.

They're very insightful. We hear, Daryl, that this quote, America is an inherently racist nation. They would be referring to specifically whites toward blacks, whites are racist towards blacks.

Is that statement true? Or is racism, whites towards blacks, black towards whites, Asians towards Hispanics or whatever, is that latent within every ethnic group toward another? In other words, are ethnic groups always kind of suspicious and demeaning, I guess, maybe in mentality toward one another? Yeah, let me begin, David, by saying that in the spirit of full disclosure, personally, I reject the term racism because as we just discussed a minute ago, the root term race is so grossly misunderstood by the vast majority of people who use it that it's become meaningless.

Now, that said, however, I will use the term racism for the sake of our conversation here today, but personally, I despise the use of the term myself. But to answer your question, yes, racism is latent within every ethnic group, but that's only because sin is latent within every ethnic group. Racism is sin, and sin is no respecter of ethnicity. And we know this from texts like Ecclesiastes 7, verse 20, which tells us, indeed, there is not a righteous man who does good and who never sins.

And of course, what the Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 3 23, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So yes, racism is latent within every ethnic group, but that's because sin is latent within each of us who comprise the various ethnic groups. And consequently, as a result of that, racism, again, in air quotes, a term which I define as sinful discrimination against God's image bearers who are of a different ethnicity, racism is by definition dynamic.

It is not static. And what I mean by that is that it is a is that it is a volitional attitude that is born in the heart. It is not something that is forced on us from outside of ourselves. And I think that's a problem that we're looking at today in conversations around whether or not America is an inherently racist nation, because it is interesting that that word inherent by definition means that it's something from within, but we're addressing it as if it's something that affects us from the outside in as opposed to the inside out.

That helps explain that. Just an aside, what word do you use instead of racism? What word do you like to use? Yeah, I like to use the word ethnicism, because when you're talking about biblically speaking, the Bible talks of ethnicity. The Bible does not talk about race in the same sense that contemporary or worldly society and culture uses the term.

So I prefer to use the term that's more biblically accurate, which is a term ethnicism and not racism. Now we're doing this interview around the time of the holiday after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. We're many decades beyond the era in which he lived back in the, I think it was the 60s and maybe early 70s. Do you think race relations, let's say ethnic relations, that's the better word, between, let's say specifically, whites and blacks have become actually more contentious after the civil rights era?

And specifically, maybe within even the last 10 years, just from someone who's a somewhat passive observer of it. I'm not on the front lines of these kinds of discussions all the times, but it seems like there's actually more contention between whites and blacks now than there used to be. First, I see the term race relations as inherently problematic. And I say that because it presumes that a state of conciliation between black people and white people should exist on no other basis than ethnicity. So the truth is, David, is that to whatever extent there's conciliation between one person and another, and I say that regardless of ethnicity, to whatever extent there is conciliation between one person and another is the result of having the right heart attitude, not the right skin color.

The same thing applies if there's consensus between one person or another in a marriage, or between a parent and their child. This is exactly what the Apostle Paul was alluding to when he said in Romans 12 18, he said, if possible, so far as if it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Now, if there's if there's been an increase in contentiousness between blacks and whites over the last decade or so, and perhaps there has been. If that's the case, however, it is because our affections are misplaced. That is my argument that if that's the case, if in fact, contentiousness is on the rise between blacks and whites is because our affections are misplaced. And what I mean by that is that instead of setting our minds on things above, as Paul exhorts us to do in Colossians 3 2, we're looking to worldly solutions like politics in an effort to create heaven on earth. But as we're exhorted in 2 Peter 3 13, believers ought to be looking for new heavens and new earth and where righteousness dwells. We're supposed to be looking above, not to solve these solutions through political or legislative means, so as to create a kind of heaven here on earth. But again, to whatever extent there is an increased contentiousness between blacks and whites, it's a heart issue that needs to be dealt with from the heart.

A new term has been coined in the last, I don't know, five years or so, maybe longer because it came from the academy, higher education. From a Christian black person's perspective, how should we process this new term, this narrative that whites have this something called privilege that we're so often hear today? All right, Daryl Harrison will answer that question after this first break of the day on the Christian Real View. Hope you can stay tuned.

Much more coming up. I'm David Wheaton. There's an abundance of resources available in Christian bookstores and online, but the sad reality is that many of them, even some of the most popular, do not lead to a sound and strong faith. A key aim of the Christian worldview is to identify and offer resources that are biblically faithful and deepen your walk with God. In our online store, we have a wide range of resources for all ages, adult and children's books and DVDs, Bibles and devotionals, unique gifts, and more. So browse our store at thechristianworldview.org and find enriching resources for yourself, family, friends, small group, or church. You can also order by calling our office toll free at 1-888-646-2233.

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Your email and mailing address will never be shared and you can unsubscribe at any time. Call 1-888-646-2233 or visit thechristianworldview.org. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian worldview as we talk about part one of an issue on race and racism and slavery and reparations around the time of the holiday in America of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

These issues are always on the forefront of people's minds. You see it in the news and so forth and even within the evangelical church with conferences, an MLK 50 conference, which our guest Darryl Harrison will talk about coming up on the program today. And by the way, just a little more background on him. I've mentioned that he was a fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary where he graduated with a theology and ministry degree. He was also the first black man to be ordained as a deacon in the 200-year history of First Baptist Church of Covington, Georgia. And now he's the dean of social media, just started this for the ministry of grace to you. Okay, let's get back to the interview with Darryl Harrison as we continue the conversation.

A new term has been coined in the last, I don't know, five years or so, maybe longer because it came from the academy, higher education. From a Christian black person's perspective, how should we process this new term, this narrative that whites have this something called privilege that we so often hear today? First of all, whites should realize that not all narrative is truth. Not all narrative is truth.

That's number one. The term white privilege is a subjective phrase that has been so often repeated by social justicians, and I say that both within the evangelical church and without the church. It's come to refer to any white person, any white person at all, regardless of whether he or she is actually guilty of using their quote-unquote privilege. I mean, it's to the point now that every white person is privileged simply by virtue of being white.

That's where, again, the term has become meaningless because it's repeated so often that it has no significance anymore whatsoever. No person, regardless of ethnicity, should take on the guilt of phantom sins on the basis of subjective narratives, such as the one being propagated under the label of white privilege. The reason I describe the narrative as subjective is because there's no definitive or objective definition of what privilege is. As I said before, from what I've observed personally anyway, privilege simply means being white. You're privileged, David, by virtue of being white, and that warrants within certain circles within the social justice world that you be punished, that you be disciplined, that your privilege be reduced, whatever degree of privilege you may have. So it's a definition that has no basis in objective fact, for not only do I know of white people who are not privileged, I know some black people who are very privileged. And there's a sort of dividing line there that sort of reeks of a certain hypocrisy in that within certain social justice circles, white people who are being accused of having privilege, there are blacks who basically are afforded those same privileges, rather, but are not held to that same standard.

Mm-hmm. It's really kind of a different kind of racism, or as you call it, ethnicism. It is. To look at someone's skin color and say, you're a certain way. Yeah.

Thank you for explaining that. Daryl Harrison with us today on the Christian worldview. As I mentioned earlier, we're around the time of Martin Luther King Jr. weekend. I'm going to ask you a three-part question about him. As a follower of Christ, how do you just view him generally and his legacy? Were his doctrinal beliefs orthodox? Is he someone that biblical Christians should venerate as he is highly venerated, especially in light of some well-known evangelical organizations like the Gospel Coalition and the ERLC, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention had an MLK 50 conference last year on him?

How would you answer that multi-part question? Yeah, personally, David, I'm not an admirer of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Now, that may sound rather harsh, especially coming from someone who is a native of the city where Dr. King was born and raised and where his legacy is most tangible, that is Atlanta, Georgia. But though I do not admire the man, in one respect, I do admire how God and his sovereignty and his providence chose to use Dr. King during his time here on earth. Now, that said, the truth is, and this will be difficult for many to accept, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who was a graduate of what was then known as Crozer Theological Seminary, so Dr. King was a seminarian, but this is going to be tough for folks to handle as they hear this, Dr. King was not, though he was a seminary graduate, he was not orthodox in his doctoral beliefs, particularly with regard to the deity of Jesus Christ. Now, as a case in point, I want to quote from Dr. King's own words from a paper that he wrote while at Crozer Theological Seminary, which he entitled, The Humanity and Divinity of Jesus, in which Dr. King said this, quote, The conflict that Christians often have over the question of Jesus's divinity is not over the validity of the fact of his divinity, but over the question of how and when he became divine. The more orthodox Christians have seen his divinity as an inherent quality, metaphysically bestowed Jesus.

Jesus, they have told us, is the pre-existent log-off. He is the word made flesh. He is the second person of the Trinity.

He is very God of very God, of one substance with the Father, who for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary. Certainly this view of the divinity of Christ presents many modern minds with insuperable difficulties. Most of us are not willing to see the union of the human and divine in a metaphysical incarnation. Yet amid all of our difficulties with the pre-existent idea and the view of supernatural generation, we must come to some view of the divinity of Jesus. In order to remain in the orbit of Christian religion, we must have a Christology. Where then can we in the liberal tradition find the divine dimension in Jesus? We may find the divinity of Christ not in his substantial unity with God.

I want to repeat that sentence here. This is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s own words. King says, we may find the divinity of Christ not in his substantial unity with God, but in his filial consciousness and in his unique dependence upon God. It was his felling of absolute dependence on God that made him divine. Yes, it was his devotion to God and the intimacy of his trust in God that accounts for his being the supreme revelation of God. All of this reveals to us that one man has at last realized his true divine calling, that of becoming a true Son of Man by becoming a true Son of God.

It is the achievement of a man who has, as nearly as we can tell, completely opened his life to the influence of the divine spirit." Again, that was Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s from his paper titled, The Humanity and Divinity of Jesus. Now, so what could be argued is the most fundamental tenet of the Christian faith, that is the deity of Jesus Christ, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., in his own words, denies that Christ inherently possessed that attribute. So notwithstanding the focus on Dr. King, which organizations such as the Gospel Coalition and the ERLC have placed on him in recent years, I would caution any Christian, regardless of ethnicity, to not venerate Dr. King, not to mention any other human being, on the basis that neither Dr. King's theology nor his Christology was biblically orthodox. Yeah, that's basically apostasy, you know, to get that particular one wrong, that's just rank heresy to get the deity of Christ wrong. So thank you for explaining that. I've never heard that quote before, so that was illuminating as to what he actually believed, because if you get that belief wrong about who Christ is, that he's not innately divine, the Son of God, equal with God, everything else is going to be affected by that errant view of who Christ is.

Absolutely. Daryl Harrison with us again today here on the Christian Real View as we talk about race and racism, and we're going to get into reparations for slavery in just a few minutes here. I'd actually like to read something that you wrote now in a recent column on your website, on your blog, justthinking.me, and you wrote a column entitled, The Era of the Angry Black Christian, and I'm just going to read two paragraphs and follow up with a question. You said, as an entity, the black church came into existence by necessity, not choice. It is the ecclesiastical byproduct of an evangelicalism, which for decades lived a lie, having been intoxicated by the moral rotgut of slavery. Frederick Douglass himself, a former slave, exposed this hypocrisy when he said that, quote, the slave auctioneer's bell and the churchgoing bell chime in with each other, and the bitter cries of the heartbroken slave are drowned in the religious shouts of his pious master. Revivals of religion and revivals in the slave trade go hand in hand together. The slave prison and the church stand near each other, unquote. You go on to say, conversely, abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison said in 1854 that, quote, the slave dealer gives his blood-stained gold to support the pulpit, and the pulpit, in return, covers his infernal business with the garb of Christianity.

And just one more paragraph. Okay, we're going to read that paragraph after this next break of the day here on the Christian Real View. You're listening to an interview with Darrell Harrison.

He's a former fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. We're talking about race and racism, or as he likes to call it, which I think is more accurate, ethnicism, because there's only one race. There's only one kind, the human kind, and we have different ethnicities.

It's not about getting reconciliation between the ethnicities. It's about having our hearts changed so we see each other as fellow people. We'll come back. We'll talk more with Darrell Harrison right here on the Christian Real View radio program.

I'm David Wheaton. We'll see you next time. Thank you for your support.

Thank you. Welcome back to the Christian Real View. There's just so much unbiblical thinking with regard to race and ethnicity, and that's why I'm so thankful to have Darrell Harrison on the program today.

He just is very insightful and accurate and specific with what he's saying, and biblical most importantly. And before the break, I was reading a quote from an article on his website, justthinking.me, about the era of the angry black Christian. Let's continue with the reading of that quote and then a follow-up question to him. It is in light of this discriminatory milieu that the aforementioned Dubois confessed that he regarded the white evangelical church as, quote, an institution which defended such evils as slavery, color cast, exploitation of labor, and war, unquote. It is that shared perspective of white evangelicalism that served in 2008 as the impetus for black liberation theologian and former pastor of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, Reverend Dr. Jeremiah Wright, to pronounce the anathema God-darn-American—you didn't use that word—upon this nation because of its history of slavery.

In other words, that's why he said that, because of our history. And though not usually expressed in such malevolent terms as rights, the sentiments inherent with this imprecatory malediction are nonetheless shared by many black Christians today. It is an indignation that is grounded not in actual sins committed against them personally, mind you, but a tribalist ethos which proffers that a shared ethnicity equates to a shared experience, regardless if that experience is historical, e.g. slavery or contemporary, what's going on with police violence.

It is an ethos to which I do not—this is you referring to yourself—which I do not subscribe. So there's a lot in those two paragraphs, but I thought that was very insightful there. And so you say here that there are reasons why the black church was founded, and it was founded in a kind of anger against how blacks were treated in this country. So maybe you could explain more of the thesis for this column that you wrote.

Yeah, I'd be glad to, David. What I was referring to there by arguing that the black church was founded in anger, by that statement what I mean is that I'm referring to the anger over the sin of slavery, which essentially is what gave birth to the black church in America as a result of black Christians being denied the right to worship alongside white Christians as fellow image bearers of God. And if I could just give a personal story, not many years ago I was a member of a Southern Baptist church whose origins date back to 1823. Upon joining that church, I was handed a magazine, for lack of a better word, that detailed the history of the church. So the church began in 1823, but it wasn't until four years later in 1827 that the congregation had to vote on whether or not to allow black people as members.

Now this is a so-called Christian church having to cast a vote on whether to allow people of a different ethnicity to become members of that local body. So that's just an example of the milieu that existed then, but whose effects continue to reverberate even now here in 2019. So that's the context in which I argue that the black church was founded in anger. I'm referring to the anger over slavery.

It's in that context, I want to add, it's in that context that I argue that word anger. So I don't want anyone to take that word anger and automatically assume that it refers to an attitude or a mood, but I'm referring to a righteous indignation over certain denominations being willingly and volitionally participating in propagating and facilitating the institution of slavery in America. Slavery is a sin that should anger us all, not only from a historical perspective but also as a present-day reality, because believe it or not, slavery is still practiced in many parts of the world today. I think of a text like Ephesians 5-11 where Paul writes that we ought to not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead to even expose them. So when we talk about slavery, let's not automatically default to the 1800s or even the 1600s, but slavery is still a present-day reality, and even though I do not subscribe to the tribalist ethos that says, well, since we share a common skin color, that that equates to a common experience, well no it doesn't.

I don't subscribe to that. However, I am not so naive to disregard the role the evangelical church has historically played in allowing slavery to continue for as long as it did. Daryl Harrison with us today on the Christian worldview, a former fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. He blogs at justthinking.me.

He's also the dean of social media at Grace2U. Just one more follow-up question on the black church. I noticed in your bio that you said that you have a passion for seeing expository preaching become the standard within the black church. So should there even be a black church? In other words, identifying with others just of our same ethnicity?

Shouldn't we, you know, the Bible talks about, you know, whether you're Greek or Jew or whatever you are, come together in one regardless of your ethnicity. And the second part of that question is, what is really the state of the black church today? I know that I'm seeking a generalization, but where is the black, let's say even the black evangelical church today, what is it like?

Yeah, let me take your first question, David, and say yes, you're absolutely right. There is only one church. Matter of fact, the question is not, should there be even a black church or a white church or an Asian church, you know, insert ethnicity here.

None of that should exist from the standpoint of vernacular for the Christian. There is one church. There was, as the word tells us, right, there was one Lord, there was one faith, there is one baptism. There is one church. So when I speak of the black church, what I'm referring to is more along the lines of its cultural traditions, its ecclesial traditions that are inherent within that particular aspect of evangelicalism.

But you're absolutely right. Not only should there not be such terminology used, we need to start speaking in the context of what the Bible teaches and what the New Testament teaches, and that there is only one church, absolutely. With respect to the state, though, however, I will use the phrase the black church just for the sake of conversation. In response to the question about what is the state of the black church, personally, from my perspective, and I've spent half my life as a member of black churches and then the other half as a member of white churches, so I can speak rather fluently from both angles. But with respect to the black church, generally speaking, and this is a general statement, this is not speaking to every specific evangelical church that has a predominantly black congregation, I need to make that point, because there will be folks who will listen to this interview and will attack me for generalizing across the whole spectrum of black evangelicalism, and that is not what I'm doing. However, having spent almost 30 years as a member of one black church or another, the overall state of the black church, I would have to say, is pretty poor.

It still suffers from an absence, I won't even say a dearth, I would say an absence of expository preaching. The gospel is not explained from the pulpits in most black churches. The vast majority of black churches on Sunday mornings are going to hear a topical head talk type of message, I will even call it a sermon, some messages that have more to do with how to improve a certain aspect of your life, how to find a marriage partner, how to have success in this area, or that.

Very seldom are you going to hear a message preached about who Jesus is and why it's important to believe in Christ, why Christianity is the truth and Islam, Buddhism, Jehovah's Witness, and Mormonism is not, and things of that nature. So from the standpoint just of what is offered from the pulpits, the black church is in a desperate state of affairs, and I say that now, in the context that I am now having been exposed to expository teaching for several years, that's where my passion lies, is to see expository preaching become the standard in pulpits of black churches, because it is not now, the gospel is not taught. There is a lot of preaching going on, there is a lot of emotionalism going on, but there is very little exposition of the word of God going on, and as a result, black Christians that are members of these churches, that attend these churches, are not applying the truth of the gospel to their lives in a way that's effective, because they don't understand what the gospel is. So there are many, many problems within the black church.

Yes, I can hear someone saying, well, that goes for other ethnic churches as well, and that's true, but my experience is within black ecclesiology, and my passion for them, for those churches, rather, is that they will turn their backs on the prosperity gospel, that they will turn their backs on selecting a church based on the style of singing, or the style of preaching, or the style of their traditions, and that's what they would follow the gospel with respect to searching out the truth of what the gospel means, and then apply the gospel to their lives effectively. Our guest today in the Christian Real View is Darrell Harrison. He's a former fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. We have one more segment coming up with him, and then we have another week with him. So hope you're enjoying the interview, because there's much more coming up today on the Christian Real View.

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Monthly partners can choose to receive resources throughout the year. Call 1-888-646-2233 or go to thechristianworldview.org. Thank you for your support. There's an abundance of resources available in Christian bookstores and online, but the sad reality is that many of them, even some of the most popular, do not lead to a sound and strong faith. A key aim of the Christian worldview is to identify and offer resources that are biblically faithful and deepen your walk with God. In our online store, we have a wide range of resources for all ages, adult and children's books and DVDs, Bibles and devotionals, unique gifts, and more. So browse our store at thechristianworldview.org and find enriching resources for yourself, family, friends, small group, or church. You can also order by calling our office toll-free at 1-888-646-2233.

That's 1-888-646-2233. Or visit thechristianworldview.org. Final segment of the day here on the Christian Worldview Radio Program. Our website, as always, is thechristianworldview.org, where you can go and you can subscribe to our free weekly email or annual print letter.

You can hear the audio of past programs, including this one. You can order resources and you can also support this ministry. Just go to thechristianworldview.org. Our guest today is Daryl Harrison. He's a former fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary.

He's also the brand new Dean of Social Media at Grace To You Ministry. We're talking about today race and racism, or as he calls it, I think more accurately, ethnicism, and also reparations. We'll get into that next week, reparations for slavery. Is that consistent with biblical repentance and restitution? So we have lots of very interesting topics and an interesting conversation coming here that is very relevant to the conversations we hear in society today.

Let's get back to the final segment with Daryl Harrison. It's often said that Sunday is the most segregated day in America. We've been talking about white churches and black churches and so forth. What is the best way forward to have more of the, I guess, the New Testament church, more of a grounded biblical church where there's not divisions based on ethnicities, but believers just come together. You hear some churches try to, predominantly white churches, try to have more blacks on the elder board, and they do kind of quota things like that. What's your answer to a better way forward to have more mixed churches naturally with people seeing each other as brothers and sisters in Christ instead of dividing amongst ethnic lines?

Again, interesting question. It was Dr. Martin Luther King who first asserted that Sunday is the most segregated hour in America, and it's an assertion that has largely been accepted as fact primarily because it was Dr. King who made the assertion. But we need to be careful here to distinguish between, excuse me, segregation and separation. There are myriad, myriad reasons why black and white Christians worship separately, but what I find most concerning about this assertion that Sunday is the most segregated hour in America is that it is only those churches that are predominantly white that are tasked with becoming more ethnically diverse. Churches that are predominantly black are not held to that same standard. The reality is that there are countless black evangelical churches, particularly in the inner cities, that not only are predominantly, if not totally black, but are quite comfortable with their congregations being mono-ethnic. I find nothing in scripture that mandates local congregations be multi-ethnic.

Nothing. A church can have people of varying shades of melanin occupying their pews, but all that tells me is there are people of varying shades of melanin occupying the pews of your church. It says nothing about what the person who is Caucasian or Hispanic or African thinks in his heart about the person next to them who is Latino or Chinese or Middle Eastern, and it's the condition of the heart, not the culture skin that matters most to God.

Now, with respect to a better way forward, the best way forward to have better race relations within the church is for those who comprise the church to have better relations with God. As the apostle Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 5, verses 17 through 19, he says, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. The old things have passed away. Behold, new things have come. Now, all these things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. And that's the approach we have to take.

See, we've got it backwards here. This is especially evident within the social justice realm of evangelicalism, is that they are trying to change the aesthetics. They are trying to change systems and institutions, and then, as a result, have that reflect that reconciliation has taken place. But biblically, reconciliation happens from the inside out.

It happens from the heart first, and the effects are seen outwardly as a result of what has happened inwardly. So again, the best way forward for you and I to have better relations with one another is for you and I to first have better relations with God. That's very well said and very, very true as well. And let me follow up as you mentioned the social justice movement that's really prominent now within evangelicalism. How is that social justice movement in evangelicalism, let's say, going to turn out, do you think, especially with regards to race relations?

Yeah, I don't think it's going to help, personally. And I hate to be so blunt, but I don't know any other way to say it. Biblically, the concept of justice needs no qualifiers, such as social. Biblical justice needs no qualifier. When followers of Christ obey him, there's justice. When we don't obey him, there's injustice.

It's really that simple. The biblical idea of justice is captured very well in Leviticus 19, verse 15. The verse reads this, you shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly. You are to judge your neighbor fairly. Now, that one verse inculcate every person on the planet. That is biblical justice clearly defined in one verse.

You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly. Now, a fundamental problem with the evangelical social justice movement today is that it goes completely against what we just read that is commanded in Leviticus 19. The contemporary evangelical social justice movement is a movement that promotes and advocates partiality, especially towards the poor, while punishing the great, which is totally against what is commanded in Leviticus 19. It is a movement that promotes and advocates partiality towards the poor, as well as towards those who are certain ethnicities, namely black people, okay? So the current, and I'm speaking of the current evangelical social justice movement. I'm not talking about secular social justice movements. The evangelical social justice movement today is a movement that is rife with partiality.

It is rife with partiality. And in that context, because of that reality, it can only hurt race relations, because it is a direct violation of what is commanded in scripture. So no, the current social justice movement, evangelicalism, is not going to help race relations.

It is going to hurt in the end, because it is inherently and intrinsically going against what is commanded in scripture. Just heard an interview with Darrell Harrison. And if you missed any of the interview today, I hope you found it sharpening to your worldview, because I did to mine. But if you missed any of it, you can always just go to our website, thechristianworldview.org to hear it.

We put it up a couple hours after the show. Part two will be next week. Also sign up for our free podcast.

We'll start up this year with short takes as well with some of the highlights from the interview for today. But just want to conclude by saying we do live in a changing and challenging and ethnically divided world. But the way to change that is through one person, is through Jesus Christ and His Word, because they're the same yesterday, today, and forever. And we put our faith in Him, we start to see each other as people, fellow image bearers made in the image of God. Let's do that this week.

We'll talk to you next weekend, everyone. We hope today's broadcast turned your heart toward God, His Word, and His Son. To order a CD copy of today's program, or sign up for our free weekly email, or to find out how you can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, go to our website, thechristianworldview.org, or call us toll free at 1-888-646-2233. The Christian World View is a weekly one hour radio program that is furnished by the Overcomer Foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors. Request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount. Go to thechristianworldview.org, or call us toll free at 1-888-646-2233, or write to us at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian World View. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly.