Dennis Prager and Alistair Begg Clarifying the Only Two Religious Options, Part 2 of 2

The Christian Worldview with host David Wheaton will begin in less than 60 seconds. The Christian Worldview is a weekly, one-hour, listener-supported radio program that aims to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and share the good news of Jesus Christ with those who don't know Him. Call 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331.

Or toll-free, 1-888-646-2233. Want to be a stronger and more effective follower of Jesus Christ? The Christian Worldview starts right now. Dennis Prager and Alistair Begg clarifying the only two religious options. Part two of this topic we'll discuss today, right here on the Christian Worldview radio program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ.

That's the good news. And our website is thechristianworldview.org. I'm David Wheaton, the host of the program. And as I mentioned, our website is thechristianworldview.org. And we're glad you joined us today as we discuss part two of this topic in an event that both Jewish radio host Dennis Prager and Christian pastor Alistair Begg helped to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ. Very interesting conversation. Now, last week on the program, we played some audio clips of this event featuring Prager and Begg. And they were discussing really important theological issues such as, is Jesus actually God?

That's an important one. Is salvation by works? Do we earn our way to heaven? Or is it by faith alone? Is faith subjective, or objective? In other words, you know, I may believe something and you don't have to, it's sort of subjective. Or is there is faith about objective facts that we are basing our faith on that are actually true and real. So their conversation highlighted that there are really only two religions in the world.

There may be hundreds and hundreds of them you can find in a textbook somewhere, but the reality is there are only two. The vast majority, 99.999% of them are based on man earning salvation, or they may call it a better life here or a better future for some afterlife, or maybe they don't believe in an afterlife, reincarnation or whatever. But it's based on man doing works, man earning a better life, better future salvation through his deeds, his works, versus the one, don't like to call it a religion, but for the sake of conversation, we will, biblical Christianity, that is based on Christ, not man earning, but Christ earning salvation for man, through not our works, through his work on the cross. It's just exactly flipped, not man earning, but Christ earning for us, which must be received then by faith alone, not trusting in our own works in any way. Now Romans 4 verses 4 and 5 explain this really all-important distinction between faith and works-based religion. It says, Now to the one who works and works for salvation, who's trusting in his works, his wage, what he earns, is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. In other words, I've worked hard, I've done these things, I've done good deeds, I've done all these things, now I'm owed something, I'm owed salvation, rest of the passage.

But to the one who does not work, does not trust in his works, but simply believes, I added simply, but believes in him who justifies the engali, as God justifies the engali, his faith is credited as righteousness. There's the all-important distinction. So today in the program we're going to hear more of this conversation with Dennis Prager and Alistair Begg. We have a lot of sound bites to get to today.

Very, very interesting. I hope you can stay tuned for the whole program because your worldview gets sharpened by listening to two very intelligent, articulate proponents of their particular sides. They're going to discuss things like can we know God by reason alone, are heaven and hell literal places, are there degrees of sin, and several other important issues. So hope you can stay tuned and have your worldview sharpened today.

So let's get to the first sound bite. We're going to start out with Alistair Begg, and he is talking about how we can't know God by reason alone. If, in fact, C. S. Lewis is right that Jesus is either a liar, lunatic, or Lord, he is manifestly not a liar given the accounts that we can rely on, so that's either lunatic or Lord.

What if he's a lunatic? Do we revert to Judaism? That's a good question. And I think, yes, that would have to be our default position, because we are founded on Judaism. We are based in all of that. The only point of departure is—and Dennis and I have spoken about this before—you know, if you think of the Bible as a two-act drama, Dennis showed up for the first half, and then he went out for a drink and never came back, and he thinks that I just showed up at halftime and asked a lot of irrelevant questions.

If I'd only shown up for the first half, we could both have had a really good evening. But, no, yeah, the default position would definitely be there. Incidentally, Dennis, I don't think it would be an accurate statement. I certainly wouldn't want to make it the way that you posed it, i.e., if you would only look at this and you were sensible and you were logical, then like me, you would conclude that. That is not what the Bible says. In fact, what the Bible says is that God is unknowable, that he is beyond the realm of our intuitive radar, that we can't access him on our own terms or in our own time, that he is the one, the God of revelation, who has spoken the world into being—we agree about this on the doctrine of creation—that he is the one who has called Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldees. It's miraculous what he did, and it is to Abraham that he made the promises of the covenant, which run all the way through the Old Testament, so much so that by the time you get to Good Friday, you've got Jesus saying, This is the blood of the covenant.

This isn't some new-fangled idea. This is Christ reaching back into what his friends knew and understood. And so, there are a lot more lines that run through that you could consider and I could suggest, but at the end of the day, only God opens blind eyes, and all of our eyes are blind—Jewish eyes, Protestant eyes, every kind of eyes.

Only God opens them, and only God softens hard hearts. Okay, that was Alistair Begg at this event with Dennis Prager. Hugh Hewitt, who is another radio host, syndicated radio host, is the moderator of this debate. That's who you heard at the beginning ask the question about if Jesus, if he's not liar, lunatic, or Lord or something, do we revert to Judaism?

In other words, if he isn't who he said he is, is Judaism correct? Well, Begg went into the fact that logic alone doesn't arrive at God, and he said that God is unknowable, just in our own human understanding. And that's very true. In other words, you can put all the evidence in front of someone, you can look at creation outside and just think, wow, there had to be a creator. We don't look at a book or a painting and think, oh, no one did that. You look at creation, you look inside yourself, at your conscience, how you know just some fundamental things is right and wrong.

Everyone knows murdering someone intentionally, killing someone intentionally, is wrong. How do we know that? Animals don't know that, but we do. Are we just smarter than they are? Is it just purely intelligence?

No, it's not just intelligence. So God is, you can be really smart, like Dennis Prager, and many people are very highly educated. But somehow, their eyes are just blinded to what the gospel is, what it says. They're not approaching God in the way he's revealed himself in his special revelation of Scripture. Only God can open blind eyes. Only God can soften hard hearts.

This is what Begg said in his answer. So the follow-up question to this is, well, is Dennis Prager, with all he knows, he knows a lot about Christianity. He probably knows more than 99% of Christians about what Christianity is about. You're going to see in some of his answers today, some of his comments, he knows a lot about the Christian faith.

He's not ignorant about it at all. But I don't think he's very close to being saved, actually, for knowing as much as he does, because it's not purely a mental transaction. Like, oh, then I see the evidence here, I believe this, and this is the way it is. No, there must be a humbling and a repenting in the heart. It must be a surrendering, getting under the authority of God and realizing you're a sinner, and you can bring nothing to this equation. You can't bring your own good works, because then you're saying that Christ's work wasn't good enough. When you're self-righteous, when you're trusting in your own self and your own righteousness, as Dennis Prager is doing, you just can't have any of that to be saved. God doesn't allow us to bring one shred of our supposed goodness to him, because it's not good in his eyes. All our righteousness is as filthy rags when it's compared to the holiness of God.

You can only trust in the righteousness of Christ, not in any of your own self-righteousness. So then let's go on to the follow-up soundbite where Dennis Prager talks about the importance of works in being right with God. He talks about the analogy here of an atheist, that a good atheist has a better hereafter than an evil Christian, what he calls.

Here's that soundbite. I just want to go back to a point you made earlier, and this probably will strike you as, I don't know if odd is the word, but I plead 100% guilty to the charge that God keeps a scorecard of our ethical behavior. That's what I believe. I believe that God wants us to be good, and that a good atheist, a kind and sweet atheist who does not advocate for atheism, advocating for atheism, is a terrible sin, not on religious grounds, on moral grounds, because there is no hope for the future of humanity with a godless morality.

These people are fools who believe it. Charles Krauthammer, who was a completely secular man when I asked him about atheism on my radio show, he said it's the stupidest doctrine he is aware of. A man who is a thoroughly secular, agnostic man, and I agree with him, it is the stupidest doctrine possible, but it is possible to be a kind, there were kind people who believed in Zeus, we all agree with that. There were kind pagans. So I believe that the kind pagan has a better hereafter than the evil Jew, evil believing Jew or evil believing Christian.

Do you or not? No, I don't believe that. So an evil Christian has a better hereafter than a kind non-Christian? No, I don't believe that. You've posed it as an alternative, as if there are only two ways to view that.

All right? So the expression, to your point, the idea of fruit—so when Paul, who himself was a very convinced, self-righteous Jew, able to testify to his own background, to his training, to his teacher as Gamaliel, and so on, he finally realized that all of that was for him just like rubbish. And when he wrote concerning the nature of the grace of God, he says, you know, for it is by grace that you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourself, it is the gift of God so that no one should boast. And then he says, for you have been created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which he has foreordained for you to do. Now, religion says—if we could caricature it in its totality—religion essentially says, do good things, and God will accept you. Christianity says you could never do enough good things.

You are accepted in Jesus. Therefore, do good things. So, from the one perspective, the good things are the basis of acceptance. From the teaching of the New Testament, the good things are an evidence of the fact of your acceptance, that you have actually embraced the free gift which is on offer to us in and through the work of Jesus.

That was a very, very important thing. Good work are not the basis of saving faith. They are the evidence of it. And by the way, there's no such thing as an evil Christian, the Bible says. No one who practices evil or unrepentant sin is truly saved.

More after this. The Christian Worldview Speaker Series are one-night events that feature a compelling speaker presenting a message on a current topic followed by Q&A. The purpose is to provide strong, in-person biblical worldview content in a short format. The inaugural event is set for Friday, May 10th at 7 p.m. Central at University of Northwestern St. Paul and will feature Curtis Bowers, producer of the award-winning Agenda Films, speaking on how socialism is impacting the country and the Church. No registration, no cost, free will offering. Seating on first-come basis, max capacity 315.

Live streaming on Facebook. More information at thechristianworldview.org slash speaker or by calling 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview Speaker Series with Curtis Bowers, Friday, May 10th, 7 p.m. Central at University of Northwestern St. Paul.

Hope to see you there. Environmental scaremongering is the favored tactic of the left to gain massive government control. After all, if you can convince people that we are imperiling our very existence by human-caused climate change, there is no tax, law, or reordering of society that goes too far. Christians need to be fully informed of this nefarious climate change scheme. That is why we are offering two resources by Cal Beisner, founder of the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, who brings a truthful, biblical worldview to this issue. The Climate Change in the Christian is an 80-minute DVD message, and The Cosmic Consequences of Christ Crosswork is a 15-page booklet. One or both are available for a donation of any amount to The Christian Worldview. To order, go to thechristianworldview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. The Christian Worldview is a one-hour, listener-supported radio program that aims to sharpen the biblical worldview of believers and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ to those who don't know Him.

We strive with you to think biblically and live accordingly. You can hear past programs, sign up for our weekly email and annual print letter, and receive our current offers by visiting our website, thechristianworldview.org. You can also call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331.

That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331 or toll-free 1-888-646-2233. All right, welcome back to The Christian Worldview radio program. I'm David Wheaton, the host. Just a reminder, the speaker series event is this coming Friday, May 10th, 7 p.m. Central Time, University of Northwestern, St. Paul.

No cost, no registration. Curtis Bowers speaking on how socialism is impacting the country and the church. Find out more at our website, thechristianworldview.org. We'll also be streaming it live on Facebook, 7 p.m. Central Time this Friday, May 10th, so you can tune in there if you don't live in the area. We'd love to see you.

We're praying that this will be a really good event and hope you can come. And today in the program, we're going with part two that we started last week of this very stimulating, interesting, clarifying conversation between Dennis Prager and Alistair Begg as they talk about all these various theological issues. And we just heard from Prager talk about he thinks a good atheist is a better hereafter than an evil Christian. We won't rehash that again, but basically there's no such thing as an evil Christian. If someone's evil, they're not really a true Christian.

And that's where people often make a mistake. They can say, well, you're born in a Christian country, so therefore you're a Christian or you were christened as a baby or you were married in a church and therefore you're a Christian or you consider yourself a Christian. That does not make you a Christian.

Not at all. Matthew 7, Jesus says, many will say to me on that day, judgment day, Lord, Lord. So there's people who call him Lord, call Jesus Lord. Many, not just some, many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, didn't we not prophesy on your name and in your name cast out demons and in your name perform many miracles? These were not nominal professing Christians either. These are people who were thinking they were doing works, good things, miraculous things, because they're Christians. And Jesus said, I never knew you.

Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. And there's the word, practice. So no Christian can be evil. You cannot practice sin and be a Christian. If you're practicing sin, something you habitually do over and over, the Bible says, you should question whether you're truly saved. If you're unrepentantly practicing sin, now does this mean that a Christian can't sin? Of course not. Does it mean a Christian can't do an evil thing?

Of course not. You still have that sin nature and can do it. But there'll be a fairly soon recognition of the evil thing that was done and there'll be a repentance of it and there'll be a turning back to God and a return to the narrow way. Let's go on to the next sound bite where they start talking about hell. This is a provocative question that Hugh Hugh had asked. Is there a hell and is Dennis going to it? Well, if we are going to, again, if we're going to take Jesus at his word, the answer to the first part of the question is yes, and the answer to the second part of the question is not yet. And if I'm right, Dennis, your answer is I don't worry about it. My answer?

Yes. Well, first let me explain. I defend Christians a great deal on this issue. You have no idea how often in Jewish life, in which I am very involved, Jews will write, Dennis is so naive.

That's when they're sweet. Dennis is so naive. You know, he does all this work with Christians and he's a Christian lover and they think he's going to hell.

What the hell is wrong with him? Really, I get that a lot and I answer back, I don't care where people think I'm going. I care where people, how people are treating me here. Christians treat me beautifully, that they believe that I have a dark future is painful to them.

If I believed it, I'd convert to Christianity, obviously. So it isn't painful to me if one thinks that. The way you treat me and the world and my fellow Jews, that's how I judge you. There are people who don't think I'm going to hell who make life hell for me.

My fellow Jews. So I understand that and I do believe there is a hell. I just believe that you go to hell for your works.

But I just want to make it clear, I think that a lot of Christians sell Christianity short. Because you, if your works show your faith, which is your position, then you ironically, or maybe not ironically, but you really have as much emphasis on works as I do. If bad works show no faith or bad faith, and then you go to hell.

It's why is that different from mine that bad works alone? Okay, again, another interesting question here. And you'll notice that it seems like all the questions, whatever topic they're discussing, always comes back to what the topic we're discussing today is clarifying the only two religious options. You know, there's religions that are based on man's works, determining where you spend your afterlife, and there's biblical Christianity based on faith alone. And then works are the evidence of true saving, good works are the evidence of true saving faith. So he said, I don't care where people think I'm going, I care about people who treat me here on earth. It isn't painful to me that Christians think I'm going to hell, it's painful for you. And the way you treat me and the Jews is how I judge you. I believe you go to hell for your works, he said. And he said, included by saying, if your works show your faith, how is that different than mine? Well, in every way.

It's a huge difference. The difference is between the power of works versus the purpose of works. But in biblical Christianity, works don't have the power to save you, only God has the power to save you based on Christ's work. In other words, how can good works offset the sin that we've already done?

How can that be? It would be like if you murdered someone, but you did all kinds of good things the rest of your life. Everything you did the rest of your life was wonderful and charitable and so forth. Would that offset the fact that you took someone's life and you killed them?

Of course not. Once you've sinned against the king, that's God, you're guilty. You can't become unguilty. So even if you do good all the time, what's going to make you unguilty?

It's the grading on the curve once in a while, it's the grading on the scales. My good outweighs my bad. This is how the world, that's how I think humans, we, all of us, even Christians, can sometimes think that, you know, my good, I know I do some bad things.

We need to change that worldview, change that thinking. There should be, no, I can't do anything good in myself apart from the Spirit's work in my life. In me, there is no good thing. Paul would say that in Romans chapter 7. A just God has to punish every single sin.

If he sort of overlooks some and says, well, this person did quite a bit of good and that outweighed that, there would be all kinds of injustice. Sin would be dealt differently by God, and the people would have reason to complain. But God is perfectly just. Every sin is perfectly accounted for and punished for. And we can't offset sin by good works.

So that's the point of Christ's coming. You have the perfect God-man, lived a sinless life, offered himself on the cross, to pay the penalty that we deserve to pay. God's required penalty for our sin. So that God could justly forgive us for our sin because Christ paid the penalty for it. Now we have all sin paid for, all your sins paid for, and God's wrath over our sins.

Not just justice, it's wrath over our sin could be satisfied. Like we talked about last week, we're saved from God's wrath, we're saved by God's grace by sending his son, and we're saved for God's glory. Prager is not able to see the difference.

He's a very intelligent man, respect him tremendously, he's very helpful in certain ways, in conservatism and politically and so forth. But unfortunately, he can't see the difference between grace and works. There's a huge difference to the way Christians see works as the way he does. Works are not the basis of saving faith, God's grace is, his gift to us is, but works are the purpose of saving faith. This is Ephesians 2, 8-10. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works.

Period. So we're saved by faith, but through God's grace. Even faith is a gift from God. Getting the faith to believe is even an act of God. It's God who opens our blind eyes, it's God who extends the grace of Jesus Christ to us to forgive us, it's God who gives us the faith to believe. It's all based on faith, there's no works there so that we can't boast.

But then there's verse 10, the next verse. For we, Christians, are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works. And God prepared beforehand, he prepared those good works beforehand too, so that we would walk in them. So there's no discrepancy between what the Apostle Paul says in Romans and what James says in his epistle. Faith without works is dead.

They completely work together. Works are not the basis of saving faith, faith is, but works are the evidence of true saving faith. Okay, let's see, we have a couple minutes here before the end of this segment, and this is a longer soundbite. So why don't we just get started with it, we'll stop it part way. And this is where they're talking about degrees of sin, where they have an interchange with each other. Well, because of the person of Christ in the middle of it all. I mean, it comes back to that every single time.

We're not dealing here with a conceptual idea philosophically. We're dealing, if we want to talk about the Jew and the Christian, we're dealing with the fact that I have to do something with the fact that the message of the cross of Jesus Christ—not Jesus the religious leader, Jesus the guru, but Jesus on a cross—the message of the cross, which is at the very heart of Christianity, is, says Paul again, foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved, it is the power of God. And so we have to—if you want to go to hell, you have to step over the cross of Jesus Christ, let's put it that way. That that stands blocking our route to hell. He stands there, as it were, with open arms, saying, you don't have to go there because of what I have done for you. So there is a fundamental difference. Okay, we'll stop it there and hear the rest of that interchange between Alistair Begg and Dennis Prager right after this break.

If you want to go to hell, you have to step over the cross of Christ. It's there. He's presented himself. He's told us who he is. What are we going to do with it?

That's the question. More after this on the Christian Real View. I think the greatest sin in the world is bringing children into the world that have disease from their parents, that have no chance in the world to be a human being, practically. Delinquents, prisoners, all sorts of things, just mocked when they're born. That's Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood.

We ought to never become indifferent to the slaughter of the innocents taking place in our country. This is why we are offering a DVD series entitled Life Is Best that will equip you to stand for life and against this injustice. In this two DVD set are 13 episodes that address all the facets of abortion from the worldview battle to what you can do. For a limited time, you can order the Life Is Best DVD series for a donation of any amount to the Christian Real View.

Normal retail is $49 plus shipping. Go to thechristianrealview.org or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. The mission of the Christian worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ.

For when Christians have a stronger faith and when unbelievers come to saving faith, lives and families and churches, even communities, are changed for the glory of God. The Christian worldview is a listener supported ministry. You can help us in our mission to impact hearts and minds by making a donation of any amount or becoming a monthly partner.

All donations are tax deductible. You can give online at thechristianworldview.org or by calling us toll free 1-888-646-2233. When you give, we'd like to thank you by sending you a current resource.

Monthly partners can choose to receive resources throughout the year. Call 1-888-646-2233 or go to thechristianworldview.org. Thank you for your support. The Christian worldview is a one hour listener supported radio program that aims to sharpen the biblical worldview of believers and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ to those who don't know him. We strive with you to think biblically and live accordingly. You can hear past programs, sign up for our weekly email and annual print letter, and receive our current offers by visiting our website thechristianworldview.org. You can also call us toll free at 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331.

That's Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331 or toll free 1-888-646-2233. All right, so many sound bites, so little time today here on the Christian worldview radio program. If you just joined us, we are playing some audio clips of an event. It was a friendly discussion. I wouldn't call it a debate between Jewish radio host Dennis Prager and Christian pastor Alistair Begg, two of the sharpest minds, and I respect both these men. Of course, I totally believe that Alistair Begg gets the correct understanding of what scripture teaches, but both of their worldview is instructive, I think, here to sharpen your own. Hopefully, if you have a biblical role, this will help sharpen your own biblical role. You'll clarify some things in your mind.

And so we were before the break, we were hearing from Alistair Begg, and then there's going to be an interchange with Dennis Prager here talking about the degrees of sin and the effect of works. Let's get back to that sound bite about which you're asking. No, no, there is a fundamental difference. I only wanted to point out, though, that you emphasize works as much as we do.

You just don't think it's enough. Fair enough. But you emphasize its importance, because to you, evil Christian is an oxymoron.

Is that correct? Yes and no, because the reality of the gospel message is that we are saved sinners. So here we really may have our first what matters to me difference. And that is, I don't believe everyone is equally moral or immoral. There are gradations, we're all sinners, is unhelpful. That's like saying we all get sick, but we're not all sick. Everyone gets the flu, everyone gets a cold, but not everybody gets cancer. There's a big difference between cancer and a cold or the flu. So yes, none of us is perfectly healthy, but everybody in this room knows that some people are much healthier than others.

All of us are sinners, but some people are much greater sinners than others. A concentration camp guard who tortured people to death is not the same as the guy who took a stapler from the office. Do we agree on that?

No, no, I'm not kidding. Because there are callers to my show who said that's not true, Dennis. In God's eyes, concentration camp guards and people who take staplers from the office are equal sinners. Well, I think I know why those people are trying to argue that, because they want to preserve the doctrine of total depravity.

And they're doing a poor job of it by addressing you in that way, from my humble estimation. Surely there are gradations of and expressions of evil that are represented in the difference between the thoughts of our minds, the expression of our words, and the actions of our hands. Now, what the Bible is actually saying, if I understand it correctly, is that there is no part of our existence that is unaffected by the reality of sin. It doesn't mean that we're all as bad as we could possibly be, but it does mean that sin—our rebellion against God, our indifference towards him— has affected every part of our lives—our emotions, our intellect, our wills, and so on. The way in which that is worked out in an individual life varies.

To flip it around, though, let's put it the other way for a moment, if I may. If you say we're going to have to jump from this edge of the platform over to the other edge of the platform without touching the platform, because the prize is only if you get to the other side. If you go and you get to stage two, and I go and I get to stage one, and our fair friend here, he almost makes it to the end, guess what? None of us got there.

None of us got the prize. We were all equally unable to bridge the chasm. That's why, when the Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, it's saying that we are in an equal condition before God in terms of our alienation. It doesn't mean that we have all expressed the gravity of that to the same extent as others have. Okay, we'll stop it there on that particular soundbite.

That's very helpful to understand. Yes, we're all sinners. We're not as bad as we could be. Yeah, everyone's not an equally bad sinner. But it's like the old example he gave of, you know, they used to say in California, the island of Catalina, 20 miles offshore, or jumping across the Grand Canyon.

Maybe that's more understandable than most people. Everyone can jump off the Grand Canyon and try to get to the other side. Some are going to do better than others, but everyone's going to end up in the valley below. And that's the same way with trying to earn salvation. Some are better people, some are worse people, but we're all sinners and we all can't make it on our own. That's why we need God's grace, which was manifested through him sending his son, the gift of his son, to pay the penalty we couldn't pay. And not only that was it a payment of substitutionary sacrifice for our sin, but there's also the often undiscussed side of the atonement is that God credits us with Christ's righteousness. So once all our past, present, and future sins were paid for by Christ and we put our trust in that, our trust in what Christ did, God sees us as having Christ's righteousness because in God's eyes all of our sins past, present, and future have been paid for. So he sees us as having the perfect righteousness of Christ, although we're not perfect yet.

We're still going to commit those future sins, but we're not perfect yet, but God's going to see us as having that righteousness of Christ, which is really is the basis on which God can welcome the believer into heaven someday because the believer is perfect in God's eyes because all the sins have been atoned for. Okay, moving right along to the next question for Dennis Prager by Hugh Hewitt is about why don't Jews proselytize? If it's so big, why are Jews indifferent to proselytizing? I mean, you don't really care if anyone becomes a Jew, right?

I don't really care is a little overstating it. I have no interest in a committed Christian becoming a Jew. I am very happy if someone committed to neither Christianity nor Judaism becomes a Jew. My first rule is explore what you rejected. If you came from a Jewish home, explore that before you reject it. If you came from a Christian home, explore that before you reject it. Because I also want people to continue having a bond in that way with their family.

Let me just jump in here real quick on this one. Explore what you rejected, even if it's a false way, even if it's Islam or Buddhism. And he obviously thinks Christianity and Judaism are two viable ways, but even if it's people who worship wood idols and speak to the planets, I mean, again, there's the universalistic worldview of Dennis Prager. There's not one way to God. Let's continue. But yes, obviously, I would rather somebody be reading Maimonides than the New York Times editorial page, which is the current Bible in the United States.

And it is an unhealthy and morally troubled page. But you will know, and by the way, Paul said this, that Jews would sail across oceans and cross continents to make a convert. A tenth of the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus was Jewish. The first thing that was done when the Roman Empire became Christian was to ban conversion to Judaism. And Jews from then to this day knew you convert, you risk your life, let's get out of the conversion business, and that's what happened. I didn't know that.

I know. Jews don't know that. Jews think, oh, we don't seek converts. Well, we don't seek converts in the sense that Christians do, because if you don't become a Jew, you don't have a salvation. We don't have that theology.

We did seek it when it was open for us to seek. But given my belief in the word Judeo-Christian in terms of values, if a non-Jew returns to church, I am thrilled. Okay, this really says a lot about his worldview. It very much says a lot about his universalistic, works-based worldview. Again, not about specific doctrines or specific revelation from God that you have to believe. It's just about your works. Explore what you rejected, whatever religion you come from.

I just want you to be a moral person. But what he says about proselytizing, why Jews don't proselytize, is because during the Roman Empire, Christianity became the official religion that was banned, and they were persecuted for doing so. So he quote-unquote, let's get out of the conversion business, which is the decision of Jews.

Well, think about that. I mean, Christians are willing to die to go places, leave the safety of their homes and their countries, to go to other parts of the world, or wherever they are in the world, to peacefully share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Just compare that to a Muslim who's also willing to die for their proselytizing, so to speak, but they do their proselytizing through trying to blow people up and forcefully convert people to Islam. So if they're going to die, they're going to take others with them so that Islam can take over a country, and then by Allah's dictum, you're Muslim because you live in that country. You're born a Muslim.

Again, an externalism religion. But Christians are willing to die to peacefully share the gospel. But here's the thing, if you believe, you know the way to heaven.

That's been shown to you. And if you understand that, if people don't follow that way, that they're going to hell, and then you are not willing to tell others about this one way, how unloving and how uncaring are you for your fellow man? And that's why Christians proselytize or evangelize, because we know what's at stake. If the Bible is true, what it says about who God is and what's going to happen in the afterlife, if you reject God's offer of forgiveness by rejecting what His Son did for you, and you're going to be judged justfully and rightfully for your sins, every sin will be judged. Either we can pay for them ourselves or we can accept God's offer to have Jesus pay for them for us.

Those are the two options. That's why Christians evangelize, because they care about other people's souls. So if you're someone out there who's an unbeliever and says, doesn't like Christians for trying to share the gospel with you, think of it this way. They're not trying to make money off you, at least they shouldn't be, Tello evangelists.

They're trying to tell you something that they believe in their heart can help you in this life, but especially in the one to come. More on the Christian worldview after this. And we'll feature Curtis Bowers, producer of the award winning agenda films, speaking on how socialism is impacting the country and the church. No registration, no cost. Free will offering seating on first come basis.

Max capacity 315 live streaming on Facebook. More information at the Christian worldview dot org slash speaker or by calling one triple eight six four six twenty two thirty three. The Christian worldview speaker series with Curtis Bowers. Friday, May 10th, 7 p.m. Central at University of Northwestern St. Paul.

Hope to see you there. There's an abundance of resources available in Christian bookstores and online. But the sad reality is that many of them, even some of the most popular, do not lead to a sound and strong faith. A key aim of the Christian worldview is to identify and offer resources that are biblically faithful and deepen your walk with God. In our online store, we have a wide range of resources for all ages, adult and children's books and DVDs, Bibles and devotionals, unique gifts and more. So browse our store at the Christian worldview dot org and find enriching resources for yourself, family, friends, small group or church.

You can also order by calling our office toll free at one triple eight six four six twenty two thirty three. That's one triple eight six four six twenty two thirty three or visit the Christian worldview dot org. The Christian worldview is a one hour listener supported radio program that aims to sharpen the biblical worldview of believers and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ to those who don't know him.

We strive with you to think biblically and live accordingly. You can hear past programs, sign up for our weekly email and annual print letter and receive our current offers by visiting our Web site, the Christian worldview dot org. You can also call us toll free at one triple eight six four six twenty two thirty three or write to us at Box four zero one Excelsior, Minnesota, five five three three one.

That's box four zero one Excelsior, Minnesota, five five three three one or toll free one triple eight six four six twenty two thirty three. OK, this will be a final reminder, if you just joined the program today, the Christian Real View Speaker Series event is this coming Friday, May 10th. So there's no more radio programs between now and the event. Seven p.m. Central Time University of Northwestern St. Paul.

No cost, no registration. Just come streaming on Facebook. If you're not from the area, just go to search for the Christian Real View or my name on Facebook and you should be able to find the page there.

Seven p.m. Central on Friday, May 10th. Curtis Bauer speaking on how socialism is impacting the worldview. It's a worldview. How that's impacting the country and the church. There's a lot of material there on that particular topic. We can see it in politics and we can see it in culture.

We can see it in the church as well, unfortunately. He'll be talking about that. We'll do a follow up with a Q&A afterwards.

But today we need to get to a few more sound bites of this conversation between Dennis Prager and Alistair Begg. And this next one has to deal with interpretation of scripture. We're to accurately handle the word of truth and you're going to see how Alistair Begg does that in this challenge by Dennis Prager. Jesus is fully man and fully God in the New Testament. It's to the New Testament's credit that it kept the line in there, Oh God, why did you abandon me?

Because if they just wanted to whitewash the whole thing, they could have. So I consider that a very important line. But at the same time, I want you to recognize, if Jesus had a moment of doubt that he was God's son, allow other people to have that moment of doubt too.

Well, we must allow the scriptures to say what the scripts say. It doesn't say that he doubted his identity. It says that he recoiled from the reality. No, if God you've abandoned me, that means this was not your plan. Elie Elie lama sabachthani is God, why did you abandon me? So you abandon me means this was not the plan. No, it doesn't necessarily. Okay, you abandon me means you were going to protect me and you're not protecting me.

Or anything, what else could it possibly mean? This is not what—this Jesus the man is lamenting, I didn't know this was the plan, God. No, that's—you get that from Jesus Christ, superstar, rather than— No, no, no. This is not— I get it.

No. There is no—tell me what why did you abandon me means. It is the cry of alienation, which is, as I say, was on account of the fact that he was entering into something that he had never before experienced. The issue of our lives is that we are alienated from God on two counts. One on God's side because of his holiness and his wrath against sin, and then on our side on account of our rebellion against God and the fact that we are lawbreakers and sinners. Therefore, in the atonement, both the wrath of God and the love of God have somehow or another to be expressed and satisfied. If God did not punish sin, then he wouldn't be true to himself, and justice would not be served. If God did not provide in himself the answer to that, then his love would have been impaired. So it is in that moment when Jesus realizes, I'm entering into this experience of alienation, the natural recoil is, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And the answer, of course, is, I have forsaken you because that's what we agreed on.

I'm so thankful for someone like Alistair Begg, who can divvy up that question and answer it in an accurate way, because it does so. Didn't God forsake? How did God forsake his own son?

That's not possible. It's Jesus doubting, as Dennis Prager was saying there. He said it wasn't a cry of alienation.

No, it was a cry of alienation. In other words, something that Jesus had never experienced before, as a God and man, something that's very difficult to understand and explain, granted. Jesus had always been just, he and the Father are one. But at this one moment, God was going to take his wrath and he was going to forsake his son and pour all the sin of the world, of those who would believe, actually, on his son and make his son pay that price. And that was going to feel like being forsaken. And so you could also potentially look at this as saying that why have you forsaken me is not so much as a question, like a doubt, as a cry. You know, like, for instance, if a tornado was coming at your house and it went over your house and completely destroyed it, you might cry out, why is this happening to me? Well, it's happening to you because there was a natural disaster and things happened in the atmosphere.

There's a spinning storm cloud that came out and there's a perfect explanation for it. But you'd still cry out, not necessarily questioning the facts of why it happened. You knew that, but you'd be crying out because you've been in that moment so disturbed by the destruction of your home. You cry, why is this happening?

Well, there's reason for it. And I think Alistair Begg explained that it was a cry of alienation rather than a moment of doubt. OK, couple more sound bites here. We'll try to get them all in. This is—let's see if we can find this one here—couple concluding remarks by Alistair Begg as he sums things up.

Here's Alistair Begg. When we introduced the issue of eternity, it's all very well on a sunny, sunny afternoon sitting here. But I mean, when I go home Tuesday, I have a funeral on Thursday for one of the members of my congregation who was on a business trip out of town and died in his bed at sixty-four.

Now, he died and went somewhere, and so will we. Therefore, I believe this or I believe that has to be grounded in something. And that's why I'm staking my case, not on myself or on my endeavors, but on the promises that have been made in the one who I believe to have been the fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament. The thing is, it doesn't really matter what you or I believe at all.

It doesn't matter what I say in this program. It really matters what we're saying is what is it based on, and is that foundation reliable? It's will I trust God at his revelation? Is there a reason to do so? Is there a good basis to do so?

And absolutely there is. And he summed up the end of the conversation with Dennis Prager by saying this. The summation for me, I'm back where we start. And that is to say, as I read my Bible—and this takes me back to my roots in Scotland— if you take your eyes off Jesus, you lose your way around the Bible. The Bible is actually—and incidentally, if you refuse to read the Bible, you can't understand history. You can't understand the history of the world. That's why secular historians manifestly, manifoldly miss the point again and again, because they refuse to accept either the doctrine of creation or the fall of man or whatever else it is. So in the Old Testament he is predicted, in the Gospels he's revealed, in the Acts he's preached, in the Epistles he's explained, and in the book of Revelation he's expected. Okay, we've got to stop there.

There's a few more minutes, but he's right. If you take your eyes off Jesus, you lose your way around the Bible. If you don't have the Bible, you have no understanding of history.

If you reject the Bible, you have what we are experiencing in our country today. All manner of chaos, people doing what's right in their own eyes, no peace, because there's no Christ. We need to share the good news, because that's the only thing that can bring people back for the purpose for which they were created, to know God and to make Him known and to live for His glory. Thanks for joining us on the Christian Real View. Hope to see you Friday night at the Christian Real View Speaker Series event. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly.

by the Overcomer Foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors. Request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount. Go to thechristianworldview.org or call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331.

That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian Real View. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly. and our catalog of resources. Both of these free resources will keep you up to date and sharpen your world view. To receive the weekly e-mail or the annual print letter, go to thechristianworldview.org or call us toll-free 1-888-646-2233.

Your e-mail and mailing addresses will never be shared and you can unsubscribe at any time. Again, the number is 1-888-646-2233 or go to thechristianworldview.org. The Christian World View Radio Program airs live every Saturday morning from 8 to 9 a.m. Central Time while some stations tape delay the broadcast at other times throughout the weekend. If you missed a segment or an entire program or heard a show that you would like to share with a friend, there are plenty of convenient ways to get past programs. One simple way is to go to our website thechristianworldview.org and select a show to click and play or download. Another way is to order an individual CD or become a monthly CD subscriber. If you're a podcaster, search for The Christian World View with David Wheaton in iTunes or your podcasting software. If you have any questions, just call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 and we will walk you through all the options and find the one that is best for you. That toll-free number again is 1-888-646-2233.