Father’s Day Special: Gleaning from the Aged Wisdom for All Ages

Gleaning from the aged wisdom for all ages, that is the topic we'll discuss today right here on this Father's Day special of the Christian Worldview radio program where my parents are going to join us today on the program. All people can be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host of the program, and our website is thechristianworldview.org and welcome back to the show.

I'm David Wheaton, the host of the program. All ages who have immersed themselves in the Bible and followed Christ for decades have grown in wisdom that is invaluable for the next generations. When their counsel and example is spurned, foolishness abounds, which explains at least in part where our society is today. On Father's Day weekend here on the Christian Worldview, my parents will join us for an annual interview that we do every year at this time. My father Bruce is 87 and my mother Mary Jane is 85. They've been married for 65 years and been followers of Christ for 63 of those years. They have four children and seven grandchildren and I hope you enjoy our interview with my parents.

Let's get to the first segment. Well, Dad, Mom, it's great to have you back on the Christian Worldview for another year. I was just thinking what a blessing of God it is to have you with us for another year, and I certainly do not take that for granted.

It's great to have you in the studio. Gracie is under the studio desk as we speak, so it's a family affair today in the program. We're going to talk about a lot of different things today. Let's start out with the parenting aspect, since this is Father's Day weekend. Dad, what are the top three or four things that you have tried to impress on your children?

Well, looking back over the years, obviously salvation would be the number one above all. You know, we've tried to instill in them what it means to be a Christian, not just say a short prayer and that's it. We wanted to instruct them all the way along the way to learn as much as they could, even to the extent of having Sunday school at times at home. And of course, we wanted to teach them honesty and learning, the desire to learn not only from the Bible, but also from school. How about you, Mom?

In the back of my mind, I always wanted each one of you to fear and love God, obey His commandments, stay on the narrow road all of your life, and don't adapt to the culture. Those are great things and what a legacy that has been for each one of your four children and now seven grandchildren. One of the things I wanted to do on the program today is also intermix some of the recent programs we have done, the topics we've covered. One of them was how to avoid sports becoming an idol. Now, our family has been heavily involved in sports, all four of your children. Dad, how did you try to balance the idea of having your kids in sports, but not letting it take over your family?

Well, that's true. We did. We wanted them in sports.

We wanted them to be involved a lot. And yet, we also understood that sports is not the end-all. Parents should not be trying to turn their young children at any age into future professional athletes. That doesn't work if the parent is forcing it.

That does not work. Now, if the child has natural ability, we would try to encourage that. But in general, sports should not take over the family existence. There has to be a time and discipline within the family to have meals together.

That's very important. And today, there's so much demand on families to go to sports practices and so forth right at mealtime, and it breaks up the family unity. Mom, you were actually much more involved than Dad was, and me growing up, Dad was off at work every day. You were really involved with our whole family in sports, but particularly with me being the youngest. How did you see the danger of sports becoming an idol, and how did you try to manage that? Well, I remember when you were 15, you had won the state tournament, and so we decided to let you go down to the tennis academy in Bradenton, Florida.

I had some misgivings about it, but knew you'd be all alone. But you did go, and when we went down to see you, the first thing that was said to me by the son of the man who was running the academy, he said, very few families survive professional tennis. I did not want that to happen to our family, because family has always come first. 87 and 85 years old, when you look back at your life, I'll start with you, Dad, what would you say are the most important things you have done?

Well, I suppose someone might say of themselves that they did something in the business world, but I cannot look at that and say that's the most important thing. Actually, it was the tight family involvement in everything we did. I was really keyed in on that. We really did everything together. We had an active and a passive teaching of the Bible, togetherness on everything. We wanted to watch the same.

If there was a television program that we enjoyed, we wanted to do it together. And I think that was the most important thing I've done. How about you, Mom? What would you say are the most important things you have done in your life?

For sure, marrying Dad when I was 20, becoming a Christian when I was 24, raising four God-fearing children, and leading others to Christ for many years. You're listening to a Father's Day edition of the Christian Real View. My guests today are my parents, Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton. The topic is gleaning from the aged wisdom for all ages. And you both are very aged, 87 and 85. Many people don't even make it to that age.

You don't have to rub it in. What do you find difficult being in your mid-80s, 87, Dad? What's difficult at your age?

Well, obviously, physical activity. You can go through many years and you do well, you slow down a little bit in your 60s and 70s. But it seems like when you turn 80, in fact, I told Mary Jane after I had my 80th birthday, I said, you know, I don't feel any different than I did when I was in my 70s. But that soon changed as I worked into my 80s a little farther. Your physical activity drops off and, of course, your health is always a problem.

It can be. And you begin to also look upon the world system that you're living in as just plain awful. What about you, Mom? I've always been active all of my life. And now I'm finding I just can't be as active as I was before. Old age is a new stage of life for me.

The tent breaks down just as the Bible says. Everyone gets old. Everything gets old.

Your house, your car, whatever it is, it all breaks down in time. And for me, the culture is changing so fast. I just don't like the way I see things going in the culture in so many different ways. But for me, I learn something new every day in the Bible. And as I listen to Alistair Begg and John MacArthur every day, I don't know how people get to be old and don't grow in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ. And without Christ, I don't see there's any meaning to life in young, middle or old age. So the follow-up question is, as you mentioned, Mom, you see things changing.

We're going to get more into this, but the culture, society changing, the worldview of the country. How do you keep a hopeful, God-fearing or God-trusting outlook at your age when you see so much change going on in our society? Well, you have to remember, I've been a Christian a long time. And since I was a new Christian, I had a real hunger for the Word of God. I couldn't put it down. I think God gave that to me.

It's nothing I could generate myself. But it's just hearing, learning the Word of God and trying to apply it to your life every day. Every verse in the Bible, especially those that deal with that subject, I take to heart. And I just know that at my age, at any age, that I see things through the Bible viewpoint all the time. And I look upon society today, and I look upon my own health, I look upon raising children, grandchildren. And there's only one way to do it, and that's the Bible way. My mother used to say, there's only one right way to live. And if you get off that narrow road and make your own decisions apart from what the Bible says, you get into big trouble.

I see it all the time. Dad and I are very fortunate to have all of our children around us when we live in the same neighborhood, except for you. You live 10 minutes away and we see our grandchildren. Our granddaughter came over today just having them come in and out of the house. Having that contact, I think, keeps us young. And I'm just thankful that all of you want to be near one another, near us.

We're very blessed. Our grandchildren very frequently drop by the house just to talk to grandma and grandpa. They love to come over, and they'll come in and just sit there and we'll chat back and forth.

Totally unannounced, they'll drop by. And they love to talk about anything from politics, anything. My parents join us today here on The Christian Real View, this Father's Day special. Let's talk about marriage now. Why do you think there is so much divorce now, even amongst Christian couples? I've heard you say, Mom, that you didn't even know anyone growing up who was divorced.

I did not. Things have changed so much. I mean, I don't think people are realizing the changes that we've seen. It's not like it used to be. It used to be a vow before God and man was for a lifetime.

Now it means nothing. It's a complete disregard for morals. People are living together. God hates divorce. But when the family breaks down and the children don't have a father, usually the woman is raising the child. It causes anger, especially in the boys.

They have a bitterness and anger, I've noticed. And it just is not the right way to live. The Bible has the only right way to live in any other way is not going to work. In a strong marriage, you have to have commonality with your wife or husband.

I mean, you have to have the same interests, opinions, the same views on faith, politics, money. Any one of these can tear a marriage apart if they are going different directions, David. A strong marriage means that the husband and wife have commonality. Now, you two have been married for so many decades. How do you maintain a strong marriage? You're bound to have differences and disagreements or just being married for so long to the same person living together. How do you manage that over so many years? I think people hear 65 years of marriage.

That is a long, long time. How do you frame how to have a good marriage for that long? How can you explain love, David? We love one another. It was love at first sight. We've loved each other all these years. Not that either one of us are perfect, but we were in a garden store the other day. And I looked at Dad and I was thinking to myself, there is no one I could have married but Dad. Well, and also differences if we have something to disagree on.

It lasts about 30 to 45 seconds. But we're total opposites, as you know. You're listening to an interview with my parents today here on the Christian Real View Weekend. This is Father's Day weekend. Happy Father's Day to all the fathers who are listening today. Hope you are gaining from this interview with two people who have gained much wisdom by the grace of God over these many, many years.

87, my dad, my mom is 85. Blessed to have them once again on the Christian Real View for our annual interview. Much more coming up. Then, the next day on Monday, September 16th is the Christian Real View Golf and Dinner event at Woodhill Country Club in Waseda, Minnesota. You can register for golf, which includes dinner, or register for the dinner event only.

This is always a special day and evening. Again, the speaker series event is Sunday, September 15th, and the golf and dinner event is Monday, September 16th. To find out more, call us at 1-888-646-2233 or visit thechristianworldview.org. The best way to stay connected to the Christian World View is to sign up for our free weekly email and annual print letter. The weekly email is delivered to your inbox each Friday and contains the preview for the weekend radio program along with links and resources associated with it. Upcoming events and the previous week's program are also included. The annual print letter is delivered to your mailbox in November and contains a column on a current topic and our catalog of resources. Both of these free resources will keep you up to date and sharpen your world view. To receive the weekly email or the annual print letter, go to thechristianworldview.org or call us toll-free 1-888-646-2233.

Your email and mailing addresses will never be shared and you can unsubscribe at any time. Again, the number is 1-888-646-2233 or go to thechristianworldview.org. And welcome back this Father's Day weekend here on the Christian World View radio program. I'm David Wheaton, the host. Our website, as always, is thechristianworldview.org. We are exactly three months away from our next speaker series event. That's going to be on Sunday, September 15th with Darrell Harrison speaking about how the pursuit of social justice by the church and by Christians is going to impact the church and the gospel.

And you're really going to enjoy Darrell. I spoke with him this past week and he's a very insightful biblical teacher. He is now the director of social media for Grace to You. So he's the one that the messaging from Grace to You, John MacArthur's ministry, comes out, goes through him, which goes on the internet.

So you can imagine the amount of trust they put in him to do that. And also the next day is our golf and dinner event on Monday, September 16th. All of these are informations on our website, thechristianworldview.org.

We'll be telling you more through the summer about these events, but make sure you mark them on your calendar if you'd like to come to one or both of them. Today on this Father's Day, we're talking about gleaning from the aged wisdom for all ages. And my parents, Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton, are joining us for our annual interview. Let's get straight back to the second segment.

Let's get back to the culture, Dad. You were born in 1931, and that was before World War II. We just recently saw the D-Day celebrations of the 75th anniversary.

You were just a little younger than many of the men who were part of the invasion of Normandy. So you've seen huge changes in our culture over the decades. What are some of the most major ways you have seen culture changing, or our society changing, or people changing? And why do you think that's taken place?

There have been huge changes. I'll put it this way, liberalism is the ruination of our nation. 1 John 2 says that the world is passing away and the lust thereof. And the culture just does not pay attention to the Bible anymore. What the culture does, you want to avoid. Just go the other way.

How about you, Mom? I know you're a keen observer. You go to a restaurant, you're always looking at people around you and discerning what's going on.

Incomplete unbelief. Yeah. What are your thoughts on all the major ways that society has changed over your lifetime? Well, we normally don't go to restaurants.

We like being home. But the other night we did go to a restaurant, and it was just a culture shock to me. It started with the 60s. I remember watching it all on the 60s when Woodstock and morals, the sexual revolution, the rebellion against authority on the college campuses. When people started living together without marriage, it was the rock music, clothing changed. The church has changed.

The church has compromised with the world. The music, the rock music in the church, that would never have been when we were young. I remember when it started in the 60s, the rock music came in, but now it's a lot worse. And the churches don't sing the hymns of the faith anymore out of the hymn book, which had deep theological meaning to them.

And they just want a repetitive type of lyrics they have now. My parents with us today here on the Christian Real View, this Father's Day special interview, Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton were talking about gleaning from the aged wisdom for all ages. I mentioned the D-Day generation, Dad, and it's called the greatest generation. I think Tom Brokaw came up with that moniker for that generation. What was different about that generation than the generation today? Well, times before and during and after D-Day actually were the best. The early 50s were really, really great.

You could park your car in front of the grocery store and leave your keys in the ignition and nothing happened. Families were generally solid. Now everything is connected, and I think there's overconnection that we have, that is even via TV or the Internet or Facebook, Twitter, smartphones, blah, blah, whatever it takes. Everyone wants to be liked, and the communication angle of it, I think, has really made a huge change in people today.

They're so interconnected that it's actually bad. I can hear what someone might be thinking as they're listening to you say the 50s was the greatest time in America. Someone might be saying, yeah, that's because you're white and you're a male and you had a job and you had opportunity, but it wasn't a great time for minorities in this country. It wasn't a good time for women. There's a whole worldview shift to say that the 50s wasn't a good time in America.

How do you respond to saying that? That really wasn't as great a time. This country really isn't as great as we really think it was.

There was a lot of oppression and injustice during those times. David, I'm well aware of that. We watch the news every night, follow the news. We always have.

And I've seen the change in people, young people. The men who went to war, you've seen all of that at Normandy. In fact, we went to Normandy. I'll never forget it. All those crosses, row on row, all those men who died so that we can have so we can be free. And one of the older men was asked, why did you do this? And he said, well, I did it because there was no one else. I knew if I didn't do it, then we wouldn't be free and have what we have in the US. But it's basically the death of the grown up.

One of the most important books I've read and I think she wrote it in 2007 by Diana West was The Death of the Grown Up. And when those men got off those boats, we saw what happened when the Omaha beach, when they stepped off that boat, they turned from a boy into a man. And that scene was awful to see those men shot and then helping each other and trying to get up that hill.

We went into the bunkers and saw where the Germans were shooting at them. I don't know if that would happen today. You wonder whether whether there's enough of the younger generation today. There are some for sure who would be willing to die for the liberties we enjoy in this country.

But you wonder if there's enough, like the D-Day generation, where they were volunteering in droves to go and defeat Nazism. If anyone doesn't know the poem Flanders Fields, they should read it. Because when Mark was in fourth grade, he came home and he said, have you ever heard Flanders Fields? And I said, no.

He said it for me. And I broke down and cried. In Flanders Fields, the poppies grow between the crosses, row on row. And in their place, the larks still brayly singing fly. We are the dead, short days ago. We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow. And now we lie in Flanders Fields. If you break faith with those who died, we shall not sleep. Though poppies grow in Flanders Fields. I don't know if that would even be the case today.

Yeah. And if they hadn't done what they did in invading Europe and defeating Nazism and really communism in a way later, we would be living in a much different country today. So we're very thankful for their sacrifice. And do you think most people know the history?

What is that expression? We learn from history. We learn nothing from history. If you don't know history, if you don't know what happened back then, you don't care. You're just living in a little world of your own.

Yeah. And we talked about the change in culture. Let's talk about some of the changes in church. You touched on this earlier, but I think one of the biggest changes has been the role of women in the church today. Matter of fact, it's the number one question on the popular website gotquestions.org about roles for women in the church. And this is something that's very pushed back on against today of the idea it talks about in, let's say, First Timothy chapter two, where Paul says, Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. That last verse, I think, has to do with the fact that women have the greatest influence on their children, typically. But this is being overturned now, even in the evangelical world.

There's such a big push that this is an antiquated notion. Of course, the liberal mainline denominations chucked this particular biblical command years ago. So egalitarianism, where men and women have equal roles. Of course, the Bible says that men and women have equal value, but differing roles. Egalitarianism is on the rise in the evangelical church. There's women in leadership and teaching roles, women teaching men in church, preaching. How would you, Mom, simply explain why God prescribes male headship in the church and the home?

It goes back to Genesis 3.15. It's the desire of the woman to rule over the man. And that's sinful when a woman does that. The woman from Hawaii, what did she say during the, was it Kavanaugh?

She said, men should just shut up. Can you imagine? I just, this would never have been David back when we were younger.

Now it is. It's pretty simple in Genesis. Mom mentioned it already in Genesis chapter 2, 22, where woman was taken from man. Man is established by God as leader and provider and protector. And when these roles reverse, you can count on very weak relationships. And I think when a culture is going down, that's when the women have been taking over. And I think people reject this at their own peril.

They do. When this is overturned in the church and the home, there are always consequences, negative consequences, too. And that's one thing you taught me growing up. There's always negative consequences to disobeying God's word. You know, God's commands are not burdensome, the Bible says. And when we fall in line, when we surrender to God's word on these things that are so seemingly countercultural today, there's actually blessing for doing so.

But have you noticed lately, not just lately, but the last years, how commercials have changed? They portray the woman is strong and the man is weak. You know, I've seen it in my own home growing up with my parents. My mother's a very strong woman, and yet it has adhered to, obeyed this biblical command of my father's headship in the home. And it's worked out very, very beautifully.

It can be done. It's against the culture today, but God's ways are always the best ways and the right ways. More on the Christian Real View with my parents right after this, this Father's Day special. You're listening to the Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton. I think the greatest sin in the world is bringing children into the world that have disease from their parents, that have no chance in the world to be a human being, practically. Delinquents, prisoners, all sorts of things, just marked when they're born. Order the Life is Best DVD series for a donation of any amount to the Christian Real View.

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For when Christians have a stronger faith and when unbelievers come to saving faith, lives and families and churches, even communities, are changed for the glory of God. The Christian World View is a listener-supported ministry. You can help us in our mission to impact hearts and minds by making a donation of any amount or becoming a monthly partner. All donations are tax-deductible. You can give online at thechristianworldview.org or by calling us toll-free, 1-888-646-2233. When you give, we'd like to thank you by sending you a current resource.

Monthly partners can choose to receive resources throughout the year. Call 1-888-646-2233 or go to thechristianworldview.org. Thank you for your support. Think biblically and live accordingly. I think that's what my parents have tried to do since they came to put their trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord back in their early to mid-20s. That was some 60-some years ago and now they've been married for 65 years. My dad's 87 and my mom is 85. We're very blessed to have them with us.

I actually just turned 50 myself a couple of weeks ago and I was just thinking as we had a family gathering how blessed I am to have my parents still with us as I kind of turn that milestone and to hear from them today. I always enjoy having them over to the studio and talking about things. You really can learn a lot and get a perspective that you don't often get by listening to believers who are in their mid-80s who have seen a lifetime of things going on in the world and experienced a lifetime of things as they grow in wisdom in the Word. I hope you are gaining from this interview with them. We have a couple more segments coming up.

Let's get back to the third segment of the interview with my parents. Dad, let's move more into the methodology of the evangelical church, the way churches presented. Of course you've been involved in so many churches over your lifetime but there's been a huge change in the evangelical church. I think it probably originated with Willow Creek and the seeker movement. The seeker movement sought to craft church around those they deemed seekers of truth.

They geared church toward the outsider. How can we bring people in? How can we make it attractive to the world? It's customer-centered. In other words, we replicate what is successful in the business world to attract and maintain customers.

We take the world's music and we make it entertaining. We have motivational feel-good messages at church and we champion social causes and so forth. This is what the world does and we think that will attract and maintain people that come to churches. Do you think this has been a net positive and if they hadn't done this, churches wouldn't be anywhere now?

How do you gauge this methodology change? It's a total negative. The church wrongly takes its cues from the business world model.

It's so evident. They build these big buildings and then they want to fill them and they've got to ask for more money. Money becomes a central issue. Elders generally have business acumen, but they often lack Bible depth for a godly decision-making. Money becomes the bottom line in the church too and I hate to see that. Churches need to maintain their biblical standing and what they teach, but often they get themselves in such depth that the number of people coming is equated to the amount of money they're taking in and that becomes almost overly important. What do you think about the methodology change in the church from the music to the type of messages away from expository verse-by-verse preaching to more topical felt needs, a little bit of entertainment and humor? You didn't grow up in your early churches.

The influence you had after you became a Christian was nothing like that. Tell us what that church was like. We all opened the same Bible. The pastor would say give the passage he was going to teach from and we'd have our Bibles open when he came to that, but before that he'd say open up your hymn books. We're going to sing whatever the hymn was. There was just a whole different sense of reverence for God, but I do remember in the 60s when we were sitting in church when a group came in and they were dancing down the aisle singing music that now would not be anything at all, but dad and I were shocked at how that was coming into the church.

They were dancing down the aisle singing the introduction of contemporary music in the church. What about the sobriety of pastors and believers? How has that changed? I don't think that this generation knows the Bible. They haven't been taught the Bible. They don't read the Bible. They don't listen to the Bible. Our pastor does expository teaching. He's going through 1 Corinthians verse by verse, but most of them it is topical and that doesn't stay with you. It's not the same as being taught the Bible from a pastor who has the gift of pastor-teacher teaching the Bible verse by verse.

My parents join us today in the Christian worldview, this Father's Day special, talking about a variety of topics. One topic we did recently in the program is how a great point of influence in this country has been higher education. Of course, we know what the worldview of secular colleges is, but a lot of so-called Christian colleges drift in a theologically liberal direction as well. Just to give a recent example, here in the Twin Cities, a well-known Christian college, University of Northwestern St. Paul, there's some controversy brewing right now over the fact that Star Parker, who's a conservative pro-life woman, was invited by a conservative group on campus to come and speak. The college didn't allow it, hasn't allowed it.

They're trying to do damage control as to why that would be. I don't know all the details of that particular story, but it's indicative of what happens at Christian colleges over time. They drift to the left from a theologically liberal standpoint.

Why do you think that happens, Dad? Well, the word liberal is interesting. Everything is becoming more liberal, and I usually like the word liberal. It suggests sharing and kindness and that kind of thing.

But it really means libertarian, where anything is okay, including your belief system. So you get into a very broad belief system, and anything is to be accepted in the colleges today. One of the biggest transformations in society of the last 20 years, but I think will be looked back on if the Lord doesn't return in 100 years, is the change in the morals and marriage in this country from a standpoint of accepting and embracing homosexuality, transgenderism, same-sex, so-called marriage. The LGBTQ movement is huge. It's influential. It marginalizes, Christians are put at odds with each other. It's a clash of world views.

Let me give you a couple of examples. The Equality Act is being pushed already through the Congress now. It adds sexual orientation and gender identity to federal nondiscrimination law. This sets up an inevitable clash with Christians who won't violate their religious beliefs about marriage and morality. We've seen this with wedding cake bakers and photographers and so forth.

More of that's going to come. We have a prominent candidate for president from the Democrat Party, Pete Buttigieg. He is so-called married to a man running for president.

He's running, I think, fourth right now of the Democratic candidates. He's being portrayed as traditional because he's in fact married as they contrast him to someone like Donald Trump, who's been married to a woman three different times. Why do you think this issue has arisen in this country even to the point where the evangelical church right now is trying to find some ways to how do we accommodate this and how do we not take such a black and white stance on this? It's all compromise.

Compromise from Jerry Safire is the language of the devil. The devil is very clever. He can just get his foot in the door and all of a sudden he's taken over everything. When Bruce Jenner became a transgender, that was really shocking. He was the greatest athlete in the world.

He was a Kardashian. I think it's the last thing to go because people don't think about the wrath of God. What does God think of this? I'm afraid that if this keeps going the way it is, that we're going to have the wrath of God.

Everything is okay now. There's no rules of deportment, no Bible basis even sought after in society. Everyone is doing it like the Old Testament did.

Everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes. What about socialism, dad? This is another topic we've discussed. We did one of our speaker series events earlier this year on socialism, which of course is the transitional state to communism where there's huge intrusive government, big taxation. Government is the nanny state. Bernie Sanders is really popularizing this. Medicare for all, education, student debt relief.

This has got to be just for you to see America like this just a shock. Well, they popularize this whole thing of free. If you're 18 to 30 years old, I mean, free sounds wonderful. Everybody likes something free, but something is never really free. If it's free, you're spending someone else's money.

Some of these people running for president at this time have these grand ideas, these overwhelmingly expensive ideas, trillions of dollars, but they never tell you how they're going to get the money. They sell the story that the free thing is something for everybody. It'll never work, never did.

As I said before, free is trying to spend someone else's money. It just will not work. Okay, Mom, I want to ask you whether you subscribe to the idea that, well, things are the way they are in America. We've talked about the homosexual transgender movement, socialism, these kinds of things, the evangelical church. There have been some negative things here. People don't really like to hear negative things anymore. Keep it positive. You've got to be positive all the time. You can't actually really see things the way they are and compare it to the word of God and draw a negative conclusion.

This is not the way to go. So do you think there's a pendulum swing, like things are going to turn around in America someday? No, absolutely not. And if not, what are you optimistic about in life? I always go back to Christ. Without Christ, life has no meaning. Without Christ, I couldn't live my life.

He's my whole life and my family. Dad, final word from you. Well, the final word comes out of the Bible. Can I read this, please? Okay, there is more of a final word coming up after this final break of the day here on The Christian Real View. You're listening to an interview with my parents, Bruce and Mary Jane Wheaton, 87 and 85 years old. If you like to get things delivered to you in a black and white way, you're listening to the right radio program today. I hope you're enjoying the interview. I always do and want to glean some insight from the aged that benefits all ages, and that's what we're trying to do today. Here on The Christian Real View radio program, we have more coming up, so sit tight.

We'll be back right after this break. I'm David Wheaton. Get ready for your summer reading with the lowest prices of the year on My Boy Bend and University of Destruction, both written by David Wheaton and owned by The Christian World View. Readers have been touched by My Boy Bend, a moving story about David's close companionship with a yellow lab that culminates in an encouraging message about God's grace in our most trying times. And if you know a high school or college student, you'll want to read and give them University of Destruction, your game plan for spiritual victory on campus.

Take advantage of this limited-time offer with our lowest prices of the year. Both books make excellent gifts, especially when you request them signed and personalized. The My Boy Bend e-book is also available. Order online at thechristianworldview.org, by phone at 1-888-646-2233, or by mail at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. David Wheaton here to announce two events this coming September. First, on Sunday, September 15th at 7 p.m. at Grace Church Eden Prairie is The Christian World View Speaker Series event on how social justice is impacting the church and the gospel, featuring Daryl Harrison, an insightful and biblical teacher and writer on this important-to-understand topic.

No cost, no registration. Then, the next day on Monday, September 16th is The Christian World View Golf and Dinner event at Woodhill Country Club in Waseda, Minnesota. You can register for golf, which includes dinner, or register for the dinner event only. This is always a special day and evening.

Again, the Speaker Series event is Sunday, September 15th, and the Golf and Dinner event is Monday, September 16th. To find out more, call us at 1-888-646-2233, or visit thechristianworldview.org. All right, final segment of the day here on The Christian World View, this Father's Day weekend. Again, a happy Father's Day to all the fathers who are listening. We'll have some follow-up comments to the interview with my dad and mom as we just get to the last few words of the interview.

Dad, final word from you. Well, the final word comes out of the Bible. Can I read this, please? We're reading out of 1 Peter 1, verse 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to his great mercy, has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith being more precious than gold, which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. And though you have not seen him, you love him, and though you do not see him now, you believe in him, and you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. It's all right there. I'd like to add one thing, too. You asked me what do I find in life that makes me, what did you say? Optimistic. Optimistic. The emails I get almost on a daily basis from my own children, my spiritual children, that's what gives me, like John wrote in 1 John, or 3 John, I have no greater joy than to see my children walking in the truth. That's the greatest legacy you could have in this life. God always has a remnant, and there is reason for optimism, for trusting in his promises for the future.

He does control the future, and it will turn out the way he says it will, and for his honor and his glory. Thank you both for another year of coming on the program. I always enjoy, most enjoy, this particular time when we get together and talk about some of these things. We're so, again, blessed by God to have you with us these many years, and thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. And on behalf of my siblings, Marnie, Mark, and John, and all the grandchildren, we just love you so much, and we so appreciate all the impact and influence you've had on each of our lives. And Happy Father's Day, Dad. Thank you, David.

Thank you, David. I hope you enjoyed the interview with my parents today. I was thinking that this is the 15th year anniversary of the Christian Real View radio program.

It started way back in 2004. God has been very gracious and blessed to be on the air for this many years, but throughout all those years, I'm pretty sure my parents have come on for the interview almost every single one, and that would have been back when they were in their early 70s. So it's been very much of an honor for me to talk to them and hear this interview from them every year. If you missed any of it, you can always go to our website, thechristianrealview.org.

It's always posted there. We'll have short takes of it. You can get the short takes by going to our website or just signing up for our weekly email. Just go to our website, thechristianrealview.org to do that.

You can get the short takes, the highlights, so to speak, delivered right into your inbox. And what a blessing to have them on again. Now, how to gain wisdom with age. Because just growing old, just aging does not guarantee godly wisdom. Years passed by without growing in God's wisdom really increases your foolishness. You're either growing in godly wisdom or you're growing in worldly wisdom. You don't go along the same path.

Aging doesn't mean wisdom. As I look back to some of the first questions I asked them about the culture and the church and the family and so forth, some of those fundamental pillars of our society, as I think about it, compromise within the church and the breakdown of the marriage and family in this country is really why we are where we are today. Everything is downstream from those two institutions, church and family. Whether it's politics, schools, media, you name it, everything else is downstream from the health of the church and the health of marriages and families. When people, for instance, hear weak or errant doctrine and theology in church, when there's compromise there, when there's a false works-based gospel, when the methodology is worldly, their lives are impacted.

We're a product of our influences. We go to church and we hear those things and their lives are not grounded strongly in sound doctrine. Their lives go off. Their marriages break apart. The kids aren't raised according to the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Foolishness and wickedness abounds and expands and that's why we are where we are in America. There's been a breakdown in a biblical church and there's been thus a breakdown in marriage and family as well. And people are going to worship something if they don't worship God. They're going to worship themselves, hedonism, materialism. They're going to worship immorality.

We're going to worship something if we don't worship the true God. Now, there's always a remnant, as we discussed in the interview today, whom God has chosen to follow him, so that's the good news, that there's always going to be a pervasive influence of the gospel because there's always going to be true followers of Christ. So you see positive news in our society as well, too. And one thing I think that's positive right now is the pushback against the greatest injustice in our society.

Oh, what's that? Is it racial? Is it gender? No, the greatest injustice in our society by far, and it's very rarely mentioned by social justice warriors, is the injustice of the killing of the unborn.

And there's been some pretty good news recently in some states and the pushback against that as the Democrat Party completely goes headlong, not only toward abortion through any stage of a woman's pregnancy. You know, as I thought about this interview with my parents, I thought about wisdom as like our need to eat. We must eat good food daily, right? If we don't eat, you're going to starve.

If you eat bad food, you're going to be unhealthy. And it's the same thing with wisdom. You know, God designed us to eat the food of his word regularly. Like Job said, I have treasured the words of his mouth, of God's mouth, more than my necessary food.

In other words, spiritual food is more important than physical food to Job. So God designed us to eat the food of his word not just once in a while, but regularly. We have short memories. Watch how often the Bible says that we need to be reminded of something.

We need to be reminded. Reading the word once a week or once a month or going to church a couple times a year, that's not going to do it. You don't do that with food.

You eat three times a day. You have to read the word three times a day, but you need to be taking the word regularly. We are to feed on him as we age, and that is where wisdom comes from. Wisdom, again, is thinking and living as God intends. So to conclude the program today, I think we can all pray that God would increase our desire.

Ask God for the desire that you would draw closer, more intimate, closer relationship with him as you age. That's going to be the source of your growth and wisdom as you strive to become more like Christ. Discipline yourself to take in the word and to discern sound teaching.

Have to be influenced by sound preaching. And then prioritize the important things. Marriage, family, church, discipling the next generation. As you do those things, you're going to grow in wisdom. And then people who are younger than you are going to glean from you when you are aged that which will benefit all ages. We do live in a changing and challenging world, but you can have wisdom when you focused on the one thing that never changes, Jesus Christ and his word. They are the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Happy Father's Day. And until next time, think biblically and live accordingly. The Christian Worldview is a weekly one-hour radio program that is furnished by the Overcomer Foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors. Request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount. Go to thechristianworldview.org or call us toll-free at 1-888-646-2233 or write to us at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Worldview. Until next time, think biblically and live accordingly.