Share This Episode
The Christian Perspective Chris Hughes Logo

What is the Future of the Southern Baptist Convention?

The Christian Perspective / Chris Hughes
The Truth Network Radio
June 28, 2022 5:30 am

What is the Future of the Southern Baptist Convention?

The Christian Perspective / Chris Hughes

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 163 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.

June 28, 2022 5:30 am

Florida Pastor, Matt Basford, shares his overview of the recent SBC Annual Meeting in California.

Truth Talk
Stu Epperson
Kingdom Pursuits
Robby Dilmore
Truth Talk
Stu Epperson
The Christian Perspective
Chris Hughes
The Christian Perspective
Chris Hughes
The Christian Perspective
Chris Hughes

Jesus said blessed are the persecuted and they are suffering big time right now.

This is my billing international in 19-year-old Ari was beaten by her own father and violated by local authorities in order crime was simply that she gave her life to Jesus Christ after leaving radical Islam. They need Bibles in order to endure and persevere and that's why Truth Network and Bible league are teamed up to send God's word to 3500 persecuted believers around the world at five dollars and $500 since 20. Call 800 yes word 800 yes were 800 yes word or give a

This is Stu Epperson from the truth.

Talk podcast connecting current events, pop culture, and theology, and were so grateful for you that you've chosen The Truth Podcast Network it's about to start just a few seconds. Enjoy it and please share around with all your friends. Thanks for listening and thanks for choosing the truth. Podcast network. This is the Truth Network get ready.

It's one of America's most important, influential and respected voices on cultural and political issues and apologist Christian political advocate and author. Here is the founder and zooming of the citizen for America foundation, Dr. Chris hello and welcome it with great show you the look on album to you sign up in right now your favorite radio station in the light of the day. This will be released to the podcast format later night when that happens, I want to encourage you share with your friends and family on social media is gonna want to thank our show sponsor for America foundation. If you want to develop a biblical worldview to learn about the issues going on the culture.

I encourage you to good citizens for America citizens for America where you can sign up to get email updates and we did not blow up your email inbox.

Will keep you informed of what's going on.

We have to get paid just at a great tour to Washington DC on taking another group in September. We love daddy daughter we can learn about their true Christian heritage of our country and our founding fathers, and then this December. On December 26 with taking a 10 day trip to Israel to walk in the footsteps of Jesus purposely scheduled.

We spent Christmas Day with your family and be given a Christmas gift to your family to go on a trip to Israel to learn about the great things in Israel and and all the Jesus I tell you just transport biological outlet gives the Jews did the thing and lived his life that we read about in the Bible each and every day and also want to thank the American theological seminary.

If you're looking for place to grow in your faith. To learn more about God's word, and other subjects as well.

You can learn more about the college Mid-America and in Mid-America vendor theological that in a well today has a mission. I got a great plan on coming out today as I was pastor Matt Bassford. Pastor Bassford is the pastor of the First Baptist Church in Bristol Florida that is not resulting if they were to do the right thing close to where all of the in Bristol Florida Panhandle of Florida and I asked the pastor Matt to come on with this today because you know we got a few shows over the last month about this and other bags convicted annual beating in Anaheim California that the place a couple weeks ago it and pastor met his wife were in attendance at the meeting. They were there, is what we call messengers are representing messengers from their church. At first Baptist Bristol, but a lot going on in the Southern Baptist convention and in many of our listeners are still the Baptist think that even if you are, you should be concerned about what's going on an ascending advanced imaging. They not only the Southern Baptist convention represent a little more than 11% of all churches in the country today, but mistakes seminaries which are training schools will pastor were sponsored and paid for by the southern men's convention trying more than enough for of all pastors across the world today.

We want to know what's happening in that convicted even if you're not getting back to schedule pastor may have attended one of the great seminaries and institutions of higher education that is paid for sponsor of the Southern Baptist convention will pastor Matt, thank you so much for joining me on the Christian perspective also proud to be here. Chris is a great honor to be on great show that has the values that many of us ascribe to an American Christianity in an otherwise. Thank you so much for having me out online and you'd be doing and I share with you before he went on air block. Please forgive me. I'm about to lose my voice of of the little bit of a Messiah in the summer: Lafayette other seaworthy everybody to frame it is probably best about their greatest source of the if you just leave and I'm a very limited as the woman walked by, got a strong per-pupil. It may please the people look at you like to play like I got a new product that an item is crazy relatives they were needed years ago people got gold number that happened but anyway now I I just loved you for so many years on years ago. We were both in the same church in Fort Walton Beach Florida you work a minister of music and involvement in unit detail young family. We got to know you, and over the years, we become a very close friend. I respect you so much and and thank you for your friendship and someone that I can call and pray for me anytime that I needed but I want for the our listeners and opportunity, but before we jump into all this. Other bags convicted best.

Let let our listeners know little but a bit about you and go ahead and feel free to brag about your children and your wonderful brand on your subconscious. Friday yeah there were a lot of Cuban sandwiches at Gus's restaurant in Fort Walton Beach back in the day for sure how I miss those days. Later we had a good time together. Yeah I was born into a Christian family.

I guess I could say, even though it is not really Baptist policy. I was born a Baptist Monday I had was the was a Southern Baptist minister on staff at several churches growing up so I basically cut my teeth on the old 1963 Southern Baptist hymnal sit on the front pew will my mom played the piano in the Army. The earliest memories I have, was being a churchman and being part of the church and begin growing up in the nursery with Ms. Pittman within me when I would not ride in all the good stuff that comes with growing up in a church background. My family was a staunch Christian family, one of five brothers on the middle of five and I mean church was always Parmalat. In fact, if I was ever sick on a Sunday morning our United couldn't attend church.

Maybe we were on vacation that there was a weird feeling when I wasn't in church and now. Maybe you've experienced that before, but just best part of our lives as much part of our life and we were always Southern Baptist soak in a Southern Baptist and I was let my mother led me to the Lord when I was nine years old and I was there I was baptized in First Baptist Church Graysville, Florida in 1980 as a nine-year-old little boy and followed him and and later on when I was a late teenager I was attending her a Southern Baptist camp and the Lord laid on my heart that told me to vocational ministry and I do know that me at the time. I do remember the old preacher that was preaching on serendipity. At that meeting still love that old man. I think you gonna be with the Lord. But I knew then that it was time to turn my life over to him and whatever he wanted.

That's what I was doing and I can still remember the pool pool of tears at my feet as I gave up on my dreams of a lot of dreams that I had everyone given up on it just it just shifted to something even more important than my dream site I ran from it for a little while. Even after that got married. I was working our family business.

My father started in doing well and finish my bachelor's degree in business administration and and then a little church and her dear friend of mine asked me to help out with music in my hometown and I didn't sorta lead led the way into going back into what I had originally intended to do and what Lord intended for me to do so. I served a series of churches. I did earn my master of divinity from New Orleans Baptist theological center of seminary over a series of years I did it the hard way while serving Turkish full dominant 2000 of the Lord laid on my heart the transition from being a administered music and sing your goal to be the senior pastor and so I let the church that we were members of together know that that's what the Lord was leading me to do and I responded very well that you not.

It was about six months before the Lord opened up the door in Little Rock Arkansas for me to pastor a church and the church that we were together in just just so supportive.

The pastor and and and the staff and and membership.

They just love, family and and then I was called in early 2001 to move to Arkansas where I pastored a two different churches in the Little Rock metropolitan area. And really, cut my teeth if you will add as as a pastor and then after that time there. I came back closer to my family, my parents were aging and just. It was practical and the Lord opened up a wonderful church in Hartford, Alabama, and I pastored there for five and half years and then I moved in and and I've been at my present church here first Baptist Bristol Florida for little over seven years and as a senior pastor and the Lord through the trials we we medico several trials not church folks. But with just natural stuff, one being hurricane Michael which basically destroyed our area and I had the leader church three. Many of our people were homeless. After the storm leader church through that crisis and then on the heels of that, a year or so later the greatest catastrophe to hit the modern church and the code 19 pandemic and we were hit pretty hard in our local area.

We had some situations where we a lot of people got sick that some people pass away from the code 19 virus and if you had told me before that happened that you would go to Mullins without meeting together in person as a church I would've laughed you out of the room arming Minnesota about his long time. That's not something we would ever consider doing, but we did and it was and so united in its challenges, but it's been rewarding and odd. I love being a Southern Baptist pastor of when I became a pastor, I begin attending. So the bags convicted my first one was in 2001 in New Orleans not been to the last 23 I believe 22 or 23 Southern bags convicted all over our our great country, culminating this year in Anaheim. I will carry your photos on like an old man there I would not you better not stop… You beautiful well get going. I'm married to the beautiful Jennifer Tomlin Bassford for 30 years. Last May 23. We have a beautiful family. We have two grown children, and to one in high school and one middle school so we have two separate families not have a that the love of my life. My five-year-old granddaughter. I did not know that you could love a human being quite the way that I love her she is just since she is a populist girl. She loves her papa and her Muni and we just we are enjoying this time with a five-year-old granddaughter that are other grown grown son will eventually find somebody and give us more grandchildren goes, I don't know how I could get a better but it has to. The more the better I would think. I love my family committed to my family. Is there their blessing from the Lord will and loan all your kids or your family.

You got such a wonderful family glorifies it will be gathering was a great source of Florida talk a little bit about this show is brought to you by generous jokes. The coffee company with the Christian perspective, this is the answer that Christians and conservatives have been looking for a coffee company that gives back to causes you care about. Order your copy today at shop generous Joe' and even subscribe to a subscription coffee plan and never forget the coffee you love or causes you care about locking the fixed at 15 feet of Bible come to life this December, enjoying nationally for radio host and found the city since funding a foundation to create life-changing it's one of the world of meaning, traveled from all over the world for thousands of reasons. Religious clutter explores Christianity's most tragic, the richest type like a wailing rock again with Chris through the winding alleyways of Nancy's own hand to place that I think you spent the early Jewish court, see firsthand that the event that the Bible took place touring Israel with Dr. Chris Hughes is a travel addict. They like their citizens financing and get ready for an unforgettable trip last a lifetime time creating there is another 39 year relationship is Ray sharing is in line enjoying history was made on today's date June 1 American Constitutional convention was in a heated deadlock over how both large and small states could be represented equally. Some delegates gave up hope.

Then, on this date, June 28, 1787, 81-year-old Benjamin Franklin spoke shortly after the U.S. Constitution became a reality as recorded by James Madison Franklin stated in the contest with Great Britain.

We had daily prayer in this room for divine protection. Our prayers were heard and graciously answered and now have we forgotten that powerful friend or do we imagine we no longer need his assistance.

American federalism for a free transcript American limit of 1888 USA also Bristol Florida.

I will tickle you just for a minute. I think you should. It meant we were talking about going to the little boy who she would get equipment in church that scares people get the day that we grew up you and you did that wrong you guys make it in school, you gotta take a steady school.

I don't know about you that as I got is negative scores. That is who I really got going on because then my mom would get a hold of me. Daddy got home, I got it again. We got worn out and a day Chris. I'll say what it's it was one of the defining marks of my childhood was that my family and in church spam. They they really follow the Lord's teaching about spare the rod's old child and we weren't abused. We were beaten, set up open MS got a connotation. You could say a spanking pretty good spanking that Ms. Pittman she was she was Summit she was a hard woman and not when I didn't somewhat go my way. I would actually paternal my bombing thing. This is looking like a for three or four-year-old kid. I was going try to pull that on her and throw up on her and she said you throwable me your butt hurt all weekend. You will merely begin to think about the Georgia Fort Walton Beach Florida and Georgia were number related to the worst of the document number 129.

If you look at the schedule to lift it with my kids were misbehaving. They were little and I warning a warmer morning while you and if you do not match to get to Danker not backing by damaging electric those baby daddy don't slightly along dog jerky today people think anymore also wanted, instead you went to camping and got a guy just burn on your heart take you going full-time Christian ministry in the listening. I just want to encourage you if you can some point during your children or grandchildren's life at least one summer you should try to let them go to Christian Date they can be a life-changing experience coming out don't know just getting old.

Can't believe to be about oblique Bible preaching One thing – met is the Florida Baptist convention and well reports on edge and I'm gonna get great job of providing a biblical Christian camps for kids 13 of the sermons and saving Also on many many make a decision to going full-time Christian ministry in Abingdon. So thank you for your testimony about to have an LL.usually there is one more quick back, forget it.

I actually met my wife at that camp we started dating.

After that, and I actually after I was a pastor many years later was invited back to be the camp pastor at that same Florida Baptist came that we need yes sir yes sir I got blessed in many ways. While no real briefly with Anna Harmon and I might have you give your little bit of background, but maybe you can get more data you may not be so bad that you don't know what it means Southern Baptist churches are not like it is likely his captors to the Catholic Church leaving the Methodist Church serve under a hierarchy of leadership and I southern Baptist churches don't serve under any other organization. Every Southern Baptist Church is what they call independent and autonomous, meaning that the government of the church. Hopefully within the guidelines of God's word within the local congregation. Other organizations send missionaries around the world and in our independent Baptist brothers and sisters. I have a great missionary network.

One thing that distinguishes them a faster map from us is that there missionaries have to come back and asked for money on a regular basis, but what Southern Baptist did, and this is really one of the main distinctions between Southern Baptist denominations. If you will automatically together into something it's called the cooperative program meeting. We give a portion of our ties become the study Baptist churches to the Southern Baptist convention that has a multitude of organizations within them, but the two biggest thing was called the North American Mission Board which plants or start new churches and send missionaries across North America and the International Mission Board IMB is what we call it house in the southern Baptist convention were we send missionaries and their basically employees of the Southern Baptist convention and they don't have to go off the mission field to ask for money all the time like some other missionaries have to do. There there funded through this cooperative giving of the cooperative program.

The two main offerings are the anti-Armstrong offering his part of that in your church and allotting the offering is like a good summary faster matter what else. Other Baptist different and mother come together I might add a little bit about how you can get get get a great thumbnail sketch of what it is you are absolutely right, the Southern Baptist convention I described it as an upside down triangle say the Catholic Church, the Presbyterian Church, the United Methodist Church all a lot of mainline denominations is like a right side up with the powers at the top with very few people visit the national office and it goes down like a pyramid to a larger number of churches at the bottom and is a power down. We are actually an inverted pyramid of Southern Baptist for the power is word all the people all the churches that the central office of the best convention is not in Nashville, Tennessee is in Peoria Illinois in Houston Texas and San Diego, California and Bristol Florida. We are the home office for the best convention.

The local church is and they told us that this would never work out when Southern Baptist formed in 1845 in Augusta Georgia. They said you can't operate a denomination like that they're not everybody will go their own way and it will never work with the Lord blessed that admin in 1925, several visionary leaders decided that under the I think under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. To begin, but she called cooperative program and it's really it's really threefold.

One folded like you said that each church is, like a tithe of the church to mission work is not exact because it's not a set number for you to be in good standing with the convention.

Each church is autonomous and decide what percentage of their normal gifts they give to Cynthia cooperative program and backup are is the biggest funding mechanism of the Southern Baptist convention and our missionary effort.

The cooperative program is there's actually a book and I would recommend you read O'Donnell enough I can find this is even in print anymore, but Dr. Chuck Kelly, who was a long time president of New Orleans Baptist seminary, wrote a book called one sacred effort that outlines the history behind how of the cooperative program payment came about in the southern Babs convention and began to augment that you do have the anti-Armstrong Easter offering and allotment Christmas offerings 100% of that money goes directly to missionaries in the field.

None of his administrative cost. It is for Penny, dollar for dollar that goes to offerings also bolster missionaries run the world. We have something like 3800 international missionaries and I'm not sure how many North American missionaries we have nothing more than that, I need to get the book does not prove that book one sacred effort to satisfy… Elderly guesser is a great book. It lines out how so Babs convention started its mission work as you said at least churches is independent but come together to meet usually once a year. I think their pandemic. I think they did meet one can usually they meet every year when they come together and and they mean different places around the country and and people can represent well represented at really good work.

I guess each church has a right to stand what's called messengers and what I didn't realize until just this year, even though I've been a passenger for not nowhere near the Mekong youth astronaut but always thought you, represented the viewpoint of your church. I like the elected legislature. Your your church think your you voted and that's not how it is your slave about the Holy Spirit news within your oncologist but churches that was called messengers in the most that any church consent is 12 messengers. This also was news to me that a lot of other churches don't understand a lot of people don't send messengers because I think will you were just a small country church pastor Matt as you know most of our churches in the sentiments convention have less than less than 200 members and I think I think it's more than 60% of pastors do what they call by vocational meeting Union Church to pay them a nap on her alternate work another job that a lot of the small churches don't always that messengers will they think we can you have a say in the in the business dealing, those that Babs convention because your mega-churches you can control it with the beauty of the way this was designed it a church that literally has 20 people can have 12 messengers of the formula they got set up for church of 15 to 20 people can have the same voting strength in the mega church when the garden Southern Baptist convention. Did you know about that a lot course of the of the Baptist polity that that's the pig and is based off of something that was with has always been a part of Southern Baptist life, but it was clarified 1988 resolution number five 1988. So the best convention on the priesthood of the believer in that. That's why you're not.

You're not a representative of your church because we believe Southern Baptist and many other Christian denominations to believe that each individual is a priest each of Bible believing spirit in Christ, save Christian is is a priest and has that agency to be able to hear from the Holy Spirit and and both are content so yes and and it does you know the form is based on how much your church is given to cooperative program efforts is how many messengers you have. I've never been on by vocational pastor been very fortunate in my career to always be fully supported by the churches that I serve on the community so that Southern Baptist pastors who are in either my heroes man you know they're just faithful in a small church were there at they do their best every week and they have to split their time between the responsibilities of church that there is no such thing as a part-time pastor. Yet it is simple to job working with always a funeral or when sick her wedding and and and and and just started preparation alone. If you do it right. This is ending.

I think a lot of people think about the time when many people are scared of public speaking and you might not ever give it one speech in her entire life in a faster got to prepare you with your old school by the church or Sunday morning standing out Wednesday night is gonna be fresh material of the apartment. I think a lot of study preparation. If you do it right when issuing the meeting that was Anaheim California is working the South talk about how to think America has a strong Christian heritage, most Americans don't know the truly important role in God and the Bible is indicated and found American foundation Dr. Chris performing in our nation with crystalline bargaining journey discovering the hidden and rediscover much of America's Christian heritage up close and personal look and how it evolved over the government and the men who helped forge this new kind of Republic acknowledge the creator from its very inception the truth about the creation of about the fate of the mounting father Christian principles. American security joint. This show is brought to you by generous Joe's coffee company with the Christian perspective, this is the answer that Christians and conservatives have been looking for a coffee company that gives back to causes you care about. Order your copy today at shop generous Joe's daughter and even subscribe to a subscription coffee plan and never forget the coffee you love or causes you care about the conservative Baptist network is a dynamic movement of Southern Baptist pastors, churches and Christians committed to standing for the sufficiency of God's word in the face of a culture of compromise.

The passion and prayer of the conservative Baptist network is that God would help Southern Baptist staple for the gospel so that we might see revival in America and the Christ.

Visit our website to learn how you and your church can join and support this exciting movement will we were talking about these other men making a new meeting with your withheld on California Amana chuckled people were talking about and be in California that you have good turnout and I think there were more than 9000 people are believer close to that. It turned out just as messengers by County others. Did you ever hear about accountability people showed up. Well, the only thing that really counts messengers they can get a pretty accurate estimate. I think I was about 12 to 13,000 people who made the trek to Southern California well is incredible. Considering how far away it is within the past year. These other matters committee was thought of his ridiculous output really is not the case that the denominational churches of Rome across the country across the world. I think you like you got to go with you to draw your time out there you go over the 20 years I did this and compare to the other conventions you presented well. Typically speaking, she does not go with me to conventions is not her. That's not her wheelhouse, but because it was in there Southern California and we decided to, extended a couple days and make it kind of a vacation proceed not after the fact she did go with me. You know I enjoyed being out there.

Honestly, you know, I've been from Florida.

It's a long way to California, but most of the time when I go to a convention unless it you know within six or seven hours driving distance like New Orleans will be next week, next year I will drive to it but typically speaking, you get on an airplane and if you get on airplane, you can go to Indianapolis or Baltimore or St. Louis or California is not much difference to traveling. The big difference is in italics everything is in California yet.

That shocked me.

I mean, as you know I like the cowboy and board food was expected out there and the time difference about dialogue about you and Jennifer about the time I got used to talk you for the moment in the book for me was throw three hours on different man meet and honestly, we think back got back late Friday night or Saturday.

I preach Sunday and we started vacation Bible school Monday and I am dragging curious that you are worn out that we are know you don't got it is about things. Are you there I got a kick out of the people post pictures will be that I think about where you're from Panhandle Florida got the most beautiful beach in the world, the people a lot of people decided because the conversion of one another out of California before and see the Pacific Ocean.

We did we got in Saturday evening.

Drove up to Newport Beach and Pacific Coast Highway at Santa Barbara and it's a different beach for sure than here in the home, the world's most beautiful beaches here in the Panhandle, Florida, within the after the convention is over.

On Thursday we took a long day and drove up or you national Park installed is amazing creation of the board of the Sequoia trees in those mountains. Your to your tonsils get sunburned that I thought that your view of God that you can come up with a pretty good job of others through the quantity, but think about that don't want him to tells him that he shared about being a pastor now not let you what your background on the other brothers dimension life, back right, you know, again is assured earlier.

I've been a messenger to the last at least 27 Baptist conventions voted on a lot of different things, not that there's a nurse theoretical as we talk about was no church can dominate the boat of the Southern Baptist convention, but there's also the practical aspect of the said investment when you get 10,000 people in a room. There's just not enough time to debate things the way you would in the normal church business meeting, there's not coming and it would be impractical to impossible to have a pool on the base a lot of things are decided before they get there by leadership the shift and you almost have to trust leadership to bring the things whether it be the committee on committees with it be the resolution committee, the sexual abuse task force committee.

Typically speaking, Southern Baptist life that what what they bring to the floor is going to pass. I've actually never seen in 20 years. A recommendation from a committee of the Southern Baptist convention failed on the floor well so we sorted we we sorted the end with the credentials committee and Saddleback Church issues.

I'm sure you will talk about that in a few moments with Dave. Dave.

They withdrew their their motion that they made on the floor because of significant opposition to it yet. What will village offended that a lot of people probably don't know. Talk about the will talk about that in the second McConnell enough that special Matt each thing a lot. I do not realize the pretty much always past but I guess that makes sense because a lot of people out to see the convention from a different salt is pointless.

You the interworking to go on the lawn and in your writing. You don't just show up and have you 12 to 20,000 people debating where your what year and it not be very organic and their committees that meet all throughout the year and and really at the most. You might have two full days of business really is really maybe this morning after pretty much acting presidential election blog people start checking out now and not participating as much of the resolution their business that is presented at these meetings in the last two years. It seems like it's gotten a little more heated with Nashville last year, the ever saying anything. Conventions kind of like what happened. Nashville and Anaheim and maybe talk a little bit about the politics of what's going on.

I have not seen anything like Nashville last year with just 15,000+ messengers, not counting the other guessers 20,000 people in the hall that holds about 12,000 comfortably and and and honestly the battles were fought that much at this convention. The battles were fought last year Nashville and will talk about those. I'm sure as we go on in the program, but the level of I don't think vitriol Chris in the politics and so the bags convention, but it has definitely ramped up and I think there are some reasons for that.

I have my opinions but you know how opinions are but it is definitely not the same as it used to be. The closest I ever saw was in 2000 and Orlando and I got to view the inner workings of it myself on in that year because I was actually doing a doctoral seminar that was based around the Southern Baptist convention and so I attended every meeting, every committee meeting planetary session of the of the executive committee as part of that class we were invited as about 20 of us that was doing that doctoral class and and that was the year Brian Wright was elected and he was a my nobody knew it was the great commission resurgence was was what was really on the agenda and it it it got contentious then but I haven't seen any that they can come close to what we see in the last two years Chris and the polyp politics anytime you get that many Baptist you get a thousand Baptist you got 1200 and out of that there are going to be political things that that come about United law office politics getting saved as political United depends on who you not right. That's pretty good with both managing the sexual abuse close task force report so a lot of our listeners may not know what you talking about and that can really geared up in Nashville and then came to a head. If you will Anaheim this year. Can can you explain what the sexual abuse classwork report is what brought about a talk about their two recommendations they made in Anaheim this year yes or after the after the well starting about 10 years ago out of the woodwork.

If you want to call it bad and they were there were some had grown up in southern Baptist live who had been in southern Baptist churches who begin to make claims and I think credible claims that they were abused by ministers sexually abused by ministers in southern Baptist churches.

It is something that is going home throughout the life of any denomination, including Southern Baptist that there are some deviants out there that use their position that the little they say the Lord is good to me and I'm not sure lords ever put Sabina position to be able to sexually abuse somebody but that the power if you will, the influence of the there's a lot of different ways to put it but they used that sacred position that the Lord put demand for their own selfish gains to sexually abuse.

Some children, some adults, some teenagers and so it was a problem and how big the problem is debatable how bit you know.

If you look at the numbers, is it an epidemic in southern Baptist churches. I don't think that it is something that is we were close to an epidemic and we we both saw our brother from Tennessee and I can't remember his name. I wish I could really break down the numbers of 28 million Southern Baptist in the span that they were investigating and were looking at a relatively few cases of that so they came out they came out they were.

They were led out by some of the younger leaders and in the convention who stood by them put their arm around them and and I got a call just a minute site I know of no Southern Baptist is in favor of sexual abuse in our churches that some new ones that were doing and were obviously in favor of abuse because they perpetrated own there of victims, but no right thinking no good church member good church leader is in favor of sexual abuse within church and I hate that sometimes it counts that if you don't fall completely into line with the narrative of of that is some epidemic in southern Baptist life that you're put into the camp that you just want to hide it is not the case at all. Chris, in fact it is the opposite. I think we need to rightly state what the problem is and not use hyperbole as some have tried to do and I don't question your motives. I don't know what their motives are, but some have have turned into hyperbole and turned it into a crisis that is has existed as a they have made it more annotated part of what scared me about that pastor Maddie some of the people they decided to give.

We cannot belittle sexual abuse. It is something taking place, but part of the way that it rained I think is to make it almost like the Catholic Church in multicultural just to be thrown together in the bundle that were not one entity like the Catholic Church of the United Methodist Church. Each of our churches are independent and autonomous and and I know some of the concern is being well you know the way that some of this report may may be presented or maybe taken back by courts is that if one one pastor like you with pastor in one state does something then we could your church in Bristol Florida be held liable for the actions of a pastor somewhere else so it is really a scary thing of what's going on and scary thing. The men of God. You know when and women to be involved in such a terrible travesty of sexual abuse are ethically shocking. So just what what was making money when the report was issued after Matt when a lot of men for more than on May 20 so there will they were not over 400 people and faith were named in it. If I remember correctly, some of them was a pretty high profile names that shock people when it came out in a survey of one of the credit were not mentioned that that really shock people and I think that I think that part of that will let you know that it was a broad sweeping investigation. It it investigated from 2000 to 2021 so were looking at a 21 year span that they were charged to investigate out of that there were about 690 million were generated by the investigation by the Houston Chronicle in 2017 and and I think that the guidepost solutions piggyback off of that list that is published by the Houston Chronicle and it that is a broad span of years to look at again one case of sexual abuse in the church is too many. But we all know that there's a simple matron in human beings, that there is one that is going to happen no matter what denomination you ran and I think the fears of Psalm that my church could be sued for something someone did in Tennessee York or Arkansas or Texas. I think it's a little miss panic is not the way our legal system works arm and I think there is a shield for the local church based on our policy of local church a concrete economy where I don't think the shield is that I think that there were some members of the executive committee and the staff of the executive committee to pick tried to I think and I think in their heart they were trying to protect the convention and protect the work of our missionaries around the world, but I think they did it the wrong way you think they they covered up things that they really should have just been far more transparent about and I think that was a lot what the sexual abuse task force was all about was more transparency but I think they went a little too far because they left the impression there's pastor who will get in trouble and one with sexual abuse in one church and travel to another church and and and they won't know about it and this that the other when I think that the numbers are so small that that's that's not something that she is running every single day, a person will every single week every single year within our conventions, but I think that's the way it was sprained.

Chris and I think that's one of the problems coming out of the six ask you to jump into the tissue organization or individual life can be difficult for the social media graphics cards give us a call today at 704984242 connect with the design on social in a world crowded with viewpoints of voice recognition after a seven.

I believe this financial problem.

Only one voice matters God's at the college of Mid-America and Mid-America seminary. We equip leaders to think for me, biblical worldview, online or on our Memphis campus. Check out the College of Mid-America and Mid-America Baptist theological and be equipped to like the way this show is brought to you by generous Joe's coffee company with the Christian perspective, this is the answer that Christians and conservatives have been looking for a coffee company that gives back to causes you care about. Order your copy today at shop generous Joe' and even subscribe to a subscription coffee plan and never forget the coffee you love or causes you care about time creating is not there is an underlying relationship, when hearing is in line enjoy the United States of America has a strong Christian heritage, most Americans don't know the truly important role God and the Bible is indicated in founder American foundation, Dr. Chris for meeting Dave Internation with crystalline bargaining journey discovering the hidden and rediscover much of America's Christian heritage up close and personal look and how it evolved over the century, the government and the mental health new kind of Republic when they acknowledge the creator. The truth about the creation of about the fate of the mounting father Christian principles. American security joint in pursuit of my gift today assessment method are really grateful just a bit deeper, but with what even talking about so much going on within the Southern Baptist convention were talking about meeting that was held in Anaheim California couple weeks ago after Matt, what were the recommendations of the two that really was one of the biggest issues that will be discussed was the recommendations of sexual abuse task force. What were the two recommendations of what happened with those recommendations. Okay what I made several guidelines, but they were not official recommendation. They were just sort guidelines for the two official recommendations was was that the executive committee.

Maintain a database of credibly accused. It could be ministers. It could just be volunteers within Southern Baptist churches as they find out about them to maintain a database that is maintained by the executive committee and by the way, both the recommendations were overwhelmingly approved by the messengers of Southern Baptist convention and I'm reminded of a story, I know I'm getting off that I think is the stories remain. I preach my not a nine-year-old grandfather's funeral. Standing in a graveyard outside a little country church that he was a member of for 60 years and I remember hearing the story they had a Baptist business meeting one Sunday night and I voted 23 to 22 in that business need to build a new church. My grandfather was against it. He said we got our church bombing only to build it. The church voted by one vote to do it and in the next morning he was out there laying out the foundation for the new church because in that he was against it is what the church voted to do and I feel that was the same way on a broader perspective with the Southern Baptist convention. I may not necessarily like the two recommendations that were made that are convention is spoken and I'm when I'm in a supporter convention, but the first one was maintained that database which I think in essence is okay. I think the biggest problem was more toward the second part of the recommendation and the criteria for becoming on that list as being credibly accused well.

We have seen, whether it be a Supreme Court justice whether it be a schoolteacher, what it be I'm not sure that's the standard for publicly naming someone on a on a database that we need to be using credible credible accusation because as you know we we live in a country that is the process in your presumed innocent until proven guilty. And that's not that that's not the standard for this database and if someone gets almost database is_their life and it may just be off of of an accusation and cyclically to be very careful with that. Yeah, yeah, that was something that really concerns me is your pocket accuse anybody of anything. I don't know the term credible accusation, you literally define what that meant when I was a big issue that came up in and will have a whole lot of time uploading my cover so it but you get point out that the recommendations did pass overwhelmingly and in it, it should be noted Southern Baptist convention does take the issue of sexual abuse seriously and as mentioned, and I don't think anybody was trying to screw around that issue with the very difficult issue this time before I get into the Saddleback thing. Do you think there's another big concern right now within the convention is that there's to be a drift to the left socially. Do you think that's going to be an issue seven years. I think that there is a little bit of the drift to the left socially, but I think it's been counts as being a drift to the left theologically and and that is that's just not accurate.

We didn't. We do not have a drift to the left theologically in the southern Baptist convention. All of the candidates for president and I know that the candidate you endorsed did not win, but all of the candidates that were were up for president of the seven best convention theologically conservative men. They they believe that the Bibles be inspired and inerrant word of God.

They believe that it is our base for what we should do as both individual churches and Southern Baptist convention and all of those men I count his brothers in Christ but but socially I think we do have a little drift to the left in the southern Babs convention and you know we have a big tent. There's a lot of different ways to look at the politics and allow different ways to look at social issues and still be a good Christian and I agree that the man I don't think you collect primaries and election process.

I just did you vote with voters were somebody doesn't mean you this very don't like the other you just like that one better at a particular time log not heard any bad or surely any ungodly end about any of the other men ran and in our new president I've only heard great things about Barb Barber is going to be present are convention which I think will probably have to have you back another… That Saddleback issue with.

I know that you use spoken very highly about a new break again just like in a minute or so later folks know you are new president. If you know any information about and not let them know that the majority is what Barb Barber is is a good man.

I don't know him personally.

He is actually typically speak in the presence of the best convention is either has been in the past, either of a pastor of a mega church or a leader. One of our institutions like a seminary for practical matters because it is expensive for personally expensive for president of the convention to be president for two years traveled is not covered by the convention and most the time the mega church pastors, churches will help undergird that Barb Barber is not pastor of a mega church.

He's the pastor of a midsize is not a small church that is a midsize under hundred thousand people in his church in Texas and I think that was something that was kind of attractive to a lot of messengers at the convention because many of them are small to medium-size churches and he just he just there was a groundswell for somebody that wasn't the old establishment of elite to leave the convention the next two years.

Well I know that everybody listen Oakley would join me in praying for Bernie resident praying for the convention because there's a lot going on. We were at a job after Matt and I forgive him that the snappy Mike Oldham Eberhardt.

Remember that in talking but I'm glad you came on because I wanted to show people. I mean I know a lot I talk a lot about maybe convention I wanted to stay stay socially conservative enough and and I'm praying that can happen and and I'm looking forward to the opportunity you have in the coming year, we come off a good convention and looking forward to encouraging everybody to attend in New Orleans next year to bash Matt thank you for being with the financial appreciation, thanks for having me as a great honor to be on your show sir not appreciate the work that you are doing both mission. This podcast is radiused broadcast and the work you do throughout your foundation. I'm proud to be your friends are club – brothers show administrative Christian perspective. Learn more about impacting culture for Jesus. This assistance for America This is the Truth Network

Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime