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Here is the founder and chairman of the Citizens for America Foundation, Dr. Chris Hughes. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Christian Perspective. We have a great guest today. I have a fairly new friend that I've just gotten to know this year, Grace Rickicheske. She is with Students for Life, and she's going to be with us today.
She is on the front lines. A lot has been happening in the arena of pro-choice and pro-life, with what the Supreme Court is about to do and with a breaking news story that just broke about a week ago. You're going to want to tell your friends to come and join this show, you're not going to want to miss it, and you're going to want to share the podcast later on because Grace has got a lot of great information that we need to know as Christians as we enter the battlefield for Jesus and defend the life of unborn babies. Welcome to Christian Perspective, I'm Chris Hughes. We're so happy to be with you today from the campus of Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, where the Christian Perspective studios are based in Memphis, Tennessee. If you're looking for a college to attend, I encourage you to take a look at the College of Mid-America. They have not only great educational programs, but they also teach students how to develop a biblical worldview. We all have a worldview, the worldview is just the lens through which we see the world, and as Christians, we certainly should see the world through the lens of the Bible. Check out the College of Mid-America, or maybe you're wanting to get a master's degree or a doctorate degree, I encourage you to visit mabts.edu, that's mabts.edu, and look at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. We have a new program, it's called apologetics, and basically it's teaching you what Christians believe.
We need to know what we believe and why we believe it, and by studying apologetics, it gives us the tools to defend our faith. And that's certainly what we're doing here today, is on the issue of life. So many young people today don't know what the Bible says about the lives of unborn babies. Is abortion right?
Is abortion wrong? Well, our guest today, Grace Rickicheski, is a college student, she's a junior in college, so you're not listening to some old guy like me, or I know some women say, well I don't want to hear what any man has to say. Well, I think that's just nonsense, but hey, I got the answer for that today, I got Grace. And Grace is going to share with us what is going on across the country. Grace, thank you for being back on The Christian Perspective, I always love having you here.
Oh yeah, thank you so much for having me. And by the way, I want to thank you publicly, just a few weeks ago, you were at the Culture Engagement Summit. Folks, if you're listening and you missed the Culture Engagement Summit, it was in Memphis, Tennessee on April 30th. Grace was one of our speakers, and every time I hear Grace speak, she just blows me away with her knowledge and her ability to communicate on such a difficult issue for many of us.
I mean, a lot of us avoid it, because we don't know what the Bible says about abortion, and we don't want to get shouted down or cancelled by our friends, so we don't say much on the abortion issue. And to me, it's just refreshing to see a young lady who's in college, but she stood firm in her beliefs, and she now travels the country teaching other people what the Bible says about these issues. So Grace, I just want you to know, I appreciate you.
I'm going to embarrass her, probably, by letting you know she's recently gotten engaged to another great cultural warrior, and they travel the country, and I encourage you to follow Grace. She's the Pro-Life Barbie, if you follow her probably on Instagram and other social media avenues, I get her to share that with us later on, how to follow her and keep in touch with what she's doing, and her fiancé Browning is going to travel the country teaching people about this important issue. Well, Grace, I don't know, a little over a week ago, there was a leak about a Supreme Court ruling. So what I'd like to do, if you don't mind, and I know we've had you on the show before, but the listeners might have missed what you had to say that day, or if they weren't at the Culture Engagement Summit, why don't we start with just assuming people don't know anything, and give us a little background, because we're going to be talking about a case called Roe v. Wade. What is the Roe decision, and how did that affect the pro-life movement in America today?
Yeah, absolutely. So Roe v. Wade was a Supreme Court decision that was made in 1973 by, I will mention it was seven men that made the decision. So any feminists who are saying that men shouldn't be able to make rules about their body, Roe v. Wade was a decision that was made by men. That's interesting. I didn't realize that.
It is. Yep, all men who made that decision. And basically what it did was it made it so that it broke pregnancy into a trimester system, and it said you can't restrict abortion at all in the first trimester, you can do certain restrictions in the second trimester, and you can totally outlaw abortion in the third trimester. But basically, it made it so that on a federal level, abortion was legal through all nine months for any reason. And with its companion case, which is Dovie Bolton, it was handed down on the same day. It was another decision that was about abortion.
They were together. I believe they called them sister cases. And it made it so that you could not restrict abortion in any case in cases of health of the mother, which is a very loose term. A lot of times we like to talk about cases where the mother's life is in jeopardy, but that's not the same thing as the health of the mother being in jeopardy. This could include anything from financial health, emotional health, relational health, the health of her career. This isn't necessarily just physical health. So basically, for all intents and purposes, it made it so that abortion was legal in all 50 states for pretty much any reason.
So that was a major PR victory for them. And I didn't realize that's where they, now when they run around, I mean, I get sick of hearing the news every night, the health of the mother, the health of the mother. So that's where it came from. So now our listeners can understand, you know, because that is how they deceive a lot of young women in the country, and young men too, is they're trying to say it's a health care issue, when really, you and I know that abortion really has nothing to do with the health of the mother in real life and death situations in most cases.
I think it's less than 3%. So that's where they got that, I mean, just like the homosexual community, you know, where they coined the term gay, which is always a happy, friendly term. The left has been great at coining these phrases like health care of the mother or women's health care issues. I'm sorry, I just got off a rabbit trail there when you said that. It just resonated with me that that's where it all started then, was with that other case that passed on that same day. Go ahead, you know how I am, I get on these pages. Yeah, no, you're good. And I will actually interject there, because I feel like that's something that's really important for your listeners to know, is how to come back when people are telling you, oh, but you just want women to die, abortion saves lives.
So just really quickly, if you don't mind, I'll jump in and give people a way to respond to that. So there is no medical reason why a woman would need to get an abortion to save her life. And I say that with the backings of many, many OBGYNs. There was a big group of OBGYNs actually in Ireland that came out and they said there's no medical reason for an abortion to save the life of the mother. And I say that with the definition of an abortion being the direct and intentional killing of a baby in the womb. Now, there are some times where we need to give a woman medical care that will unintentionally end the life of that preborn baby. But that is very morally different from going in and directly and intentionally killing the baby. So like for an ectopic pregnancy, we don't go in and kill the baby and then take it out. We remove the ectopic pregnancy or the part of the fallopian tube that's the problem so that we can save the life of the mother. But we're not going in and killing the baby. We might need to do a preterm delivery and hope that the baby survives. But the reason why the baby is dying in those cases is not because we are killing the baby. It's because our technology is not to the point yet where those babies can survive outside the womb. And that is a huge distinction. And I just want everyone to be able to combat that because that was something that I didn't even know for many years. A lot of times pro-lifers were like, we say that we're against abortion in all cases except for health of the mother or life of the mother cases.
There are no life of the mother cases where abortion, when it is defined as direct and intentional killing of a preborn baby, is required. Wow. That is so important, Grace, because I hear that all the time. And I know you do as you travel across the country as they try to make it sound like it's a big issue.
And so that's important for us to add to our toolbox of how we defend this issue. What about so since you went with the life of the mother, I want to ask you about two others to kind of put you on the spot. The other two areas they talk about are rape and incest. So usually if there's an exception, the exception is rape, incest and the life of the mother.
And I don't know. I think you're I guess I've never asked you. I think your position is abortion is wrong in every case. But I know there are a lot of legislators and others who like to throw that term rape, incest and life of the mother.
What about in those other two cases of rape and incest? I'm pro-life in all cases. And I think that when people ask us that question, I think usually they're in two different camps. There are people who are actually genuinely concerned about that. And then there are people who kind of just like throw that out there to shut up people who are pro-life and to tell us, you know, that they try to get us to be quiet.
Because it isn't a very difficult subject to talk about. But regardless of whether the person has good intentions or not, it's really primarily our job to first of all make it so they understand that we believe that rape is a horrible thing. And I know you would think that you wouldn't have to do that, but we really do when we're having these conversations, you know, expressing to them that, you know, abortion is, I'm sorry, rape is, you know, probably one of the most horrible crimes that someone can commit against another person. And that that rapist deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
We're totally against that. But the woman needs healing from that trauma that has been put upon her. She needs therapy, she needs counseling, and abortion causes trauma on top of that.
It doesn't cause trauma. The trauma that this woman is going to be facing lasts longer than nine months, and for the abortion industry to just, you know, use abortion as a band-aid to kind of slap it on top of the trauma that rape causes as a, you know, as a means to fix it. It doesn't fix it.
It very often makes it worse. And then I would also, when I'm discussing this with people, I would say that I am against rape because it goes against the human rights of that person. It's a violation of human rights. That's the exact same reason why I'm against abortion.
It's a violation of human rights. We can't be consistent and say we need to protect all human life and then say, yeah, but these human lives, they're not quite as valuable as other human lives. When we're born, our birth certificate, it doesn't have a grading system on it. You know, we're either a living human being who is full of dignity, as Christians we know, innately valuable, made in God's image.
That doesn't go away if the person is conceived in rape or in any other circumstance that is less than ideal. That is so good, Grace. And this is why I love having you on here because you give us information that is easy to understand and that we can use in discussions on this issue. We're going to take a commercial break. Grace, when we come back, I'm going to continue to put you in the hot seat because you were just talking about human life.
And that's something that I hear when I'm on college campuses across the country is a lot of college students and teenagers and others don't see, they want to call it a fetus, they don't see it as a human life. So when we come back, I want you to talk about that. So I'm talking to Grace Rickicheski, we're talking about the abortion issue.
It's a big issue right now because we might be the generation that is going to live in a post-war America. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.
An assassination attempt in 1981 by a Turkish national. Greeted by Bill Clinton as he arrived in Denver, Pope John Paul said, In spite of the divisions among Christians, all those justified by faith through baptism are incorporated into Christ, brothers and sisters in the Lord. This has been an American Minute with Bill Federer.
For a free transcript, call American Minute at 1-888-USA-WITH. Welcome back to Christian Perspectives. This is Chris Hughes. My guest today is Grace Rickicheski. She is with Students for Life and she travels across the country.
You might follow her on social media or you might have heard of her. She goes by the handle Pro-life Barbie and she is just a great wealth of information. She knows so much about the abortion issue and God is using her wonderful ways to help Christians understand that abortion is wrong. And that's a problem that we have is most pastors never, ever preach on the issue of abortion.
Most Christians never read their Bible. So, you know, when the issue comes up in a high school campus or college campus or workplace, most Christians stay silent on the issue because they don't know, you know, is it a human life? Is there just a fleet fetus? Is it a blob of flesh? Does it not become a human being at 15 weeks or till it comes out of the womb? When is it a human life?
So, Grace, can you help us out with that? Is that baby or that fetus or that blob of flesh? Is it a human being? And if so, when does it become a human being?
Absolutely. I get that question so often and it is so shocking that there are so many people who are confused or conflicted on this issue because biologists are not confused about this issue. There is a wide consensus that life and human life begins at conception. It's the moment that the sperm and the egg come together, the DNA goes together, and then there is a new genetic identity that is unique and that is whole. And it is separate from either the mother or the father. And from that very moment, it's metabolizing, it's growing, and it's self-directed. It's not a part of the woman.
It's not like our skin cells that are functioning, but they're functioning to help you. It's self-directed. It is its own human being.
In that very moment, everything from the baby's eye color, hair color, height, certain genetic predispositions, those are already in the DNA of this baby. So I just like to present that to people when they ask me about that to say it is clearly living. It's growing. So how could it not be living? And then I think one of the... May I interrupt you there with that?
Yes. I'm sorry to mess up your train of thought, but what about when they say, well, it can't survive on its own outside the womb? I think that, well, so viability is something that people are using a lot more. But if you think about it, a newborn baby also cannot survive on its own outside of the womb. All of us are dependent on other people for our survival, especially a preborn baby, you know? So that really is not a justification for killing someone.
It's because we're dependent, because even human beings outside the womb are dependent on each other for survival. That's so powerful. Please continue.
I'm sorry. But you give such great answers, and I know that's a common question. I want people to understand that.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I was going to say, next a lot of times what people will say is, they'll say, okay, well, it's living, but it's not a human being. But that is one of the most unscientific things that, you know, that we can ever hear. Because, okay, well, it has two human parents, and what species is it?
That's what I like to ask them. They'll say, oh, it's a fetus. What kind of a fetus is it? Is it a human fetus? Is it a dog fetus? Fetus is just a Latin term for small, I believe, and there are fetuses in pretty much every different species. So it is human. It is a human fetus. Fetus does not mean that it is a different species. It means it is a level of development, just like baby, child, adult, elderly, you know, we can go embryo, fetus.
You know, like, that is not any reason to justify, again, the killing of the pre-born baby. I'm taking notes. I just need to have a book for every time I talk to you, Grace, or hear you speak, because it's so helpful and simple to understand. When you were at the Culture Engagement Summit, we had another gentleman that was a speaker there named Scott Glusendorf, who was also a great speaker on this issue. He debates atheist and pro-choice people all over the world. As a matter of fact, just this last week, I was talking to Scott the other day.
Scott went to London. And he just travels all over the world, like you're trying to do, to address this issue. And I was passing through when he was speaking, and I know you all were on some panels together that day. And he was talking about how you can defend it, the pro-life issue, in like 60 seconds, just by identifying. So you've just told us that the baby is alive, that it's a human being. So if the baby is alive, and if murder is the intentional killing of a baby, then abortion is murder, because abortion is the intentional killing of another human being.
And that's really what it boils down to. If it's a human being, and that's what they try to argue, and that's why the church has got to stand up and understand this issue, it is a human being. As you just so eloquently said, a fetus is just a smaller version of something. And what kind of fetus is it? I've had puppies. It's not a puppy that came out of my wife when she was pregnant.
We were two human beings. So it is a human being. So if it is a human being, and if it is living, and I love how they also say, when it comes to COVID, oh, follow the science. We've got to follow the science. Well, clearly, the science is real. There's a heartbeat.
The hands are being developed. There's facial expressions, and I'm not trying to gross out people that are listening on the radio show, but when an abortion takes place, there's video of babies in the womb crawling to get away from that suction tomb. A tube that is inside the mother's womb trying to vacuum that baby into that vacuum tube. Now, something that's not living doesn't try to get away from a vacuum cleaner.
It's living. And so, you know, when we're killing it, we are killing that baby. Murder, abortion is murder. To me, it's pretty simple. I don't know why people have such a difficult time with this issue. What are some other arguments that you think Christians might need? So we've covered the viability issue. We've covered that it is a human life. We talked about rape and incest.
Are there other questions that you hear on college campuses or at meetings that you attend that maybe Christians need to understand an answer for? Yeah, I think especially now that we're potentially going to see the reversal of Roe v. Wade, there are a lot of people who are making all these statements about how horrible a post-Roe America will be, about how women will die, which we have already gone into that explaining that there are no reasons why a woman would need to get an abortion to save her life. But back alley abortions is usually a very big argument that people make. But I'm not sure if your listeners know or if anyone has talked about this, but Renard Nathanson, he was a doctor and he was the founder of NARAL, Pro-Choice America, and he was one of the major players back in the 1970s, 1960s, trying to make it so that abortion would be legalized throughout the country. And in order to get Roe v. Wade decided in his favor what him and his group did was they actually lied about the statistics for how many women died because of illegal abortions every year. They said that it was in the thousands, which it most certainly was significantly lower than that, and he actually became pro-life later on in his life and admitted that they had fabricated those statistics. But that was where one of the big reasons why Roe v. Wade was decided in their favor and why abortion rights are the law of the land in America is based on that lie.
And so many people believe it, even though it's been refuted, even though the person who made up the statistics has said that it was false. So many people that I talk to every single day, they believe thousands of women died every year because of back alley coat hanger abortions. There actually is not substantial evidence that there was ever even one coat hanger abortion. There were certainly unsafe abortions, but they were much, much fewer than what was purported to be the case. And I also think that just bringing it back every single time you have this conversation to the fact that abortion is the killing, is the violent killing of a preborn baby in the womb. And if it is unsafe for the perpetrators of a crime, that is not a reason to make something legal.
Like even if someone were to be able to make the case that there would be fewer murders or that the murder rate would be the same if we made it so that murder was legal, it still is right and it is just and it is good for a country to make murder illegal. And I think that that's what we just need to keep bringing it back to. You're hitting all the issues here. I tell you what, let's take another quick break. And so when we come back, one thing that I want to talk about, Grace, is, and I told you we were talking about post-Royal America, but you're just giving such disinformation.
I mean, every one of you listening should be taking notes so you can easily explain all these arguments that are presented to you. And Grace is doing a great job of it. One of them that I've heard recently, and we'll cover this when we come back from the break, Grace, is that if Roe v. Wade is overturned, this is going to create a national health care crisis for women.
So we'll talk about that when we come back. Folks, we'll be right back with more on the Christian perspective. The United States of America has a strong Christian heritage, but most Americans don't know the truly important role that God in the Bible played in the founding of this great nation. This June, join nationally syndicated radio host and founder of the Citizens for America Foundation, Dr. Chris Hughes, for four amazing days in our nation's capital. With Chris, you'll embark on a journey of discovering the hidden secrets of Washington, D.C., and rediscover much of America's forgotten Christian heritage. Your tour will include an up-close and personal look at the nation's establishment and how it's evolved over the centuries. Learn about the government and the men who helped forge this new kind of republic, one that acknowledged the creator from its very inception.
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I'm Chris Hughes. My guest today is one of my favorite guests of all time. Grace, I wish we had you here every week.
I know you've got a busy life going on, but abortion is one of the major issues in the country today. Grace Ricocheski is with Students for Life. She traveled across the country. You can follow her. Her handle is ProLifeBarbie.
She's on all the different social media outlets. I tell you what, if you're looking for someone to come into your church, she is also a strong believer in Jesus Christ. She is a strong Christian and she can explain the issue of abortion and pro-life and pro-choice issues, not only from a biblical and Christian perspective, but she can give you the scientific evidence.
And in a sentence or two, she can help you understand or give you the tools in a sentence or two to be able to refute the arguments that are presented by really ignorant people on the left. But this is an issue in the church where the church is just so ignorant on this issue. And folks, God is not going to just turn His back on America when we've allowed nearly 63 million babies to be brutally murdered through abortion since 1973. He's going to hold us accountable. He's going to hold the church accountable, because we have been silent on this issue.
Now, our Catholic brothers and sisters have done a good job, but the Protestant world has pretty much been silent on this issue. And it's time for us to take a stand. And there's no greater time now where we have the possibility, which we're going to discuss in greater detail soon, of Roe v. Wade being overturned.
But Grace, before the break, we were talking about different arguments. And as I mentioned, one that I've heard a lot, I mean, some of the respect very, very much just the other day got very angry with me and just said, you know, why do you support this? Because this is going to create a health care crisis for women in America. I mean, I just I had to laugh. I mean, to me, that is nonsense.
I mean, I'm not trying to be rude, but health care crisis really? I mean, I don't want to get gross, but don't have sex outside of marriage? And that's not going to be an issue.
You know, God is very clear about sexual sin. I'm preaching. I'm sorry. I'm getting excited. I'm getting loud.
Kids are like, you're yelling, Dad. You need to calm down. Well, we need to be excited.
We need to be upset, y'all. God's very clear about the consequences of sexual sin throughout the Bible. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. It's all through that. You can't give a good defense in the Bible if you're a Christian and you're following a biblical perspective. And I know that's a lie, you know, that your generation, Grace, has really been pushed.
I mean, there's heavy pressure. I would hate to be in your position today and be a young woman in college today because there's such a pressure for sexual intercourse and other things from young men. And it really goes both ways from women to men and men to women because we have a society today that thinks that sex outside of marriage is not wrong.
Or, you know, do everything, you know, again, I'm not trying to be gross here or anything except vaginal intercourse is okay. And that's simply not what the Bible says. And God has given us warnings to put a hedge up of protection in our lives and not do this. And, y'all, abortion's simple. Abstinence is the answer.
If you don't have sex outside of marriage, you're not going to get pregnant. It's really that simple. So how can you, with a straight face, tell me that this is a health care crisis? To me, it's not a health issue. I know that emails and probably be banned on Facebook again for all this, but it's not a health care crisis. It's a sin crisis. It's sex outside of marriage. And if that is stopped and then people say, well, what if your partner gets raped or incest?
Look, that is a very, very small minority. We've already covered that issue. But I don't see how anyone can, with a straight face, can say that we're going to have a health care crisis in America. Yeah, the health care crisis is for the babies that are being murdered.
I'm going to shut up, Grace, because my blood pressure is going up. What do you say to people when they tell you it's a health care crisis? Well, abortion is not health care because health care saves lives, and abortion ends lives and harms women who undergo this procedure. It's simply not health care.
It's not necessary by any stretch of the imagination. And I totally agree with you. I think that in the pro-life movement we need to do a better job, especially as believers, talking about the crisis that is on our college campuses, and that is hookup culture, which is a huge issue.
And I think that we would be, quite frankly, really stupid if we don't think that this plays a huge role into it. Because, I mean, you've got to imagine if you're someone who is on a college campus, you are pursuing your education, you're pursuing your career, that is the number one thing in your mind. You're having sex with a different person every night, maybe someone who you don't even know, and you get pregnant. What are the chances that you're going to keep this child? What are the chances you're not going to get abortion when it's seen as something that is not only morally neutral, in many circles abortion is seen as a moral good, you don't even probably know who the father of your baby is, you're pursuing your career, you might have to drop out of college if you have this baby, you don't have the funds to support it. It's just this storm that's been cooking up on our college campuses that makes it so that it is just so easy to understand why these women are getting abortions when they're in those circumstances.
Obviously it's not okay, obviously this is never a justification to end the life of the baby, but I think that we can understand and sympathize with women who are in those situations why they might see that as an out, why they would need to do it. And I think that it's really important as Christians that we address this issue and talk about the sanctity of marriage, why sex is made to be between a man and a woman within marriage, and hookup culture is just so destructive and it leads people down this horrible, horrible road that leads to destruction. It is such an issue, Grace, and I don't understand why more pastors and youth pastors are not addressing sex outside of marriage. Hardly ever do pastors preach on that issue, and we need to. It is a crisis in America today, and most abortions, I don't know if you've seen surveys, I could probably find something you might know, but probably a large portion of these are just simply like you're saying where people had sex outside of marriage. I doubt there are very many cases. Now there are some, but there are probably not very many cases where a husband or wife have an abortion.
It's probably almost all cases where it's a result of sex outside of marriage. And the sex culture on campuses today, and it's not just, Grace, it's not just college anymore, it's high school, even in middle school. The statistics are astounding of the number of kids that are having sex outside of marriage, and of course it's being pushed by our government through something called common sexuality education, where even first and second graders are being taught masturbation, self-masturbation and mutual masturbation, and by fourth grade being taught about anal and vaginal sex, and we're creating a culture of aberrant sexual behavior in America today, and the church needs to wake up that this is a terrible issue, and every time, Grace, in the Bible throughout history, when a society has become a sexual deviant society, God has stepped in, and the punishment has been severe, and he's just not going to continue to turn his back on this situation in America today.
Okay, blood pressure's rising again, so I've got to calm down here, Grace. I mean, it's just, I've got two kids in college, and I mean, it's a fear all the time, because I know the peer pressure is tremendous, and the availability of drugs, where even if your child doesn't take drugs, I mean, it can happen to young men too, but particularly a young woman your age, I'd be scared to go to any kind of frat party or event or dance or anything and take a, and I don't mean an alcoholic, even a coke. You know, if you don't have it in your hand and guard it continuously, someone could slip a drug in there, and you'd never even know what happened to you and end up pregnant and not know who did it. It's terrible what's going on on our campuses across the country today. It's just such an important subject. Grace, do you know, I don't know if you know statistics, would you say that probably most of the abortions are college-age young ladies, or have you seen any numbers on that? I'm not sure whether it is most, but I believe it is a very large chunk of abortions is college-aged women. I know that they very clearly target women who are in college. They have Planned Parenthood groups that they put on campus. Planned Parenthood is usually very, very often within the health centers on a lot of different college campuses. I know that there are links to Planned Parenthood at my college.
When you go in, they will give you literature to go to Planned Parenthood. It's a huge issue, and I will commend Planned Parenthood, as horrible as it may sound, that they have done a great job of marketing their services to college-age women, and not even that, but getting into the public schools. They are the ones mainly doing the sex education when it is outsourced in elementary school. They're teaching kids how to have sex, Grace, and they're creating their own industry. I mean, they're using taxpayer dollars to teach kids how to have sex, so kids hear about things that kids that age should never hear about, and so they start having sex, which creates abortions, which helps Planned Parenthood make money. And y'all might think that I'm cynical and wrong.
I think Grace would agree with me. They're creating an abortion industry. They are in the business. They are not a woman's health care. They almost never do mammograms or other screenings.
They certainly don't want to do sonograms where the woman can see the baby moving in her womb. They are in the business of abortion, and they're good at it. Oh, they're so good at it. They're evil, but they are geniuses.
They are so smart. The way that they introduce these kids to sex earlier and earlier on, the way they bring them into the clinics and put them on, like, the pill for birth control, which is the form of birth control that has the highest human error rate. They know that a 13-year-old isn't going to be able to take a pill at the exact same time every single day, and if they think that they're safe, they're going to get pregnant.
Then they're 13. They have to go in to get an abortion. They're already in the schools.
They already have the name recognition. They're not seen as a scary thing. People, you know, these students, they recognize Planned Parenthood.
They know they're a local person from Planned Parenthood. It's not some scary thing because they've already been in there for so long, creating this relationship with students. And this may be my bias, but this is why we need to get our kids out of public school. If we can possibly afford to do it, it is horrendous what these public schools are allowing. And I'm from New Jersey, and I don't know if you've seen the new curriculum.
See, I'm going to get heated now. But the new sex ed curriculum in New Jersey is just absolutely horrendous, and I went through and was looking through a bunch of these videos. They're called amaze.org.
They're all on YouTube, so if anyone wants to watch them, you can, but I will warn you not to show them to actual children because they're so horrible. But there were multiple places in those videos where they talked about going to your local Planned Parenthood or these little cartoon characters. They were driving down the street, and they drove past a Planned Parenthood clinic. And not even that, but they even, in these videos, went as far as to talk about fake clinics, meaning pregnancy resource centers, about saying that they don't give women the full options, which isn't true at all.
But like trying to say they were masquerading as abortion clinics, which is not what we're trying to do. So they're not even just supporting Planned Parenthood. They're trying to make it so that these kids in elementary school, starting as early as literally pre-K, believe that pregnancy resource centers are fake clinics with fake doctors.
It's ridiculous. Well, and they're the ones that don't give all the options at Planned Parenthood because they don't talk about adoption, and they don't want you to see sonograms and everything else. And the church has dropped the ball here. It's a shame that Planned Parenthood is in our schools across the country and developing curriculum.
And most of our pastors and Christians across the country and listening to this show can't even name one member of their school board, probably don't even know the name of the principal of their kids' school. We have got to engage in our schools. Well, Grace, we've got to take another break. When we come back, we're actually going to talk about what I told you we were going to talk about today.
We're going to talk about the road decision coming up. Stick around, folks. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. In a world crowded with viewpoints and voices.
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Welcome back to Christian Perspective. I'm Chris Hughes. My guest today is one of my favorite guests because I learn so much from her every time she's on. Grace Rickoczewski, she's with Students for Life. She's only a junior in college, but you would think she's a professor and got a Ph.D. in this issue. She knows so much about it and she's so articulate. Grace, I just thank God for the gifts that He's given you and your ability, and I thank you for obeying God and using these gifts and tools to really try to impact the culture for Jesus. I don't know if I've ever thanked you, certainly not publicly, but I thank you for being obedient.
It is not easy for you. I'm sure you've been attacked on college campuses, but I thank you for the stand you're taking. I want to shift gears and talk about the Roe decision. In the beginning of the show, if you didn't get it, this will be released as a podcast after it's on the radio today, and you can share it with your friends, but Grace told us what the Roe v. Wade decision was.
It was passed in 1973. Since that time, there's been nearly 63 million abortions, and there really hasn't been a substantive case heard before the Supreme Court in a long time on this issue. Thankfully, you can complain about President Trump all you want, but because of him, we changed the face of the Supreme Court, hopefully, for years to come, and we now have more conservative than liberal justices. I'm not encouraging conservative justices to try to push their agenda. I just want people to not legislate from the bench and truly try to interpret the Constitution.
If we stick with that, we're okay. There was a case. It was called the Dobbs case. It was heard. Oral arguments were presented in December of this past year, and the court heard it, and there's a belief. I know Grace believes this, and I believe in others, that this case is going to lead to the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
What do I mean by that? Well, what I mean is that that issue will now... The court, I think, is going to say, well, this is no longer a federal constitutional right, but the issue of abortion will be decided on a state-by-state basis. And Grace, just a little over a week ago, someone leaked some documents, which was basically an early draft stating exactly what you and I hope would happen, that Roe v. Wade would be overturned. What do you think about that document being released? I know some people are afraid that's going to change. I don't think it's going to change the decision at all, but why was that released, and what do you think is going to happen now?
I think that it was definitely released by a leftist staffer who was trying to, I mean, number one, probably tried to scare one of the justices into changing their opinion on it. Then, secondarily, I think that they might want to give Congress a chance to try to pass, like, federal pro-abortion legislation. But I agree with you. I don't think that they're going to be successful. I think that there was a very real fear that they would be when this first came out. But the more that I think about it, the more I think that they're probably not going to change their opinion on it. Like, if I was on the Supreme Court, I can't imagine that I would want to be the one person who would change my opinion after it had been released. I think that this is probably going to backfire on them. Yeah, it shows you have no spine. Well, you know, one thing, if I was on the Supreme Court, it would make me mad is these liberal groups.
So the Supreme Court does not have secret service protection normally like the President does. And so somebody released the home addresses of these Supreme Court justices, and there's been radical people boycotting and protesting outside their homes. And I've got to tell you, if those crazies were threatening my family, I would not back down. That would have the opposite effect on me. Of course, I know they're not me.
You probably thank the Lord they're not me. So I don't think that's going to change. But the legislation you mentioned is certainly a possibility. And frankly, I don't care.
I mean, for me, I know the news has been, and I'm tired of hearing it, I mean, it is a big deal that it was leaked. I mean, ethically, that's an issue. And that just shows that liberals will do whatever they have to do to try to protect their position.
But I think there were other things in play. Also, the President's been in a lot of trouble. The economy is killing people, the price of gas, no food on the shelves.
You can't even get baby formula right now. And so that created a new narrative in the news cycle to end some of the negative talk about the President and make us talk about another issue. And also, we're in the middle of primary elections all across the country right now. So it just kind of created a change in national news narrative. But I was jumping for joy, because I have believed, as you, I know we were both at the March for Life and we were there when the Supreme Court, you know, was giving these arguments, presented with these arguments. And I think it's great news that Roe v. Wade is going to be returned. But it's not the victory that some Christians think.
This now just sends it back to the states. And that's why this election year, this off-term election year, is so critically important, Grace. Because now, and personally, I think the school board is probably the most important position in the country right now of electing guyly men and women to school boards, but it's going to be super important now that we pay attention to state house and state senate races and district, so within states, they're called different things in different states, but there are district courts, district judges that are elected, and then there are state Supreme Court justices that are elected in each state. And we need to pay attention to who's going to serve on these courts, because now that it's going to the states and it's going to be a state issue if what we think is going to happen does, in fact, happen, we're going to need men and women sitting on the courts who will not try to legislate from the bench, but just look at the law and follow the state constitutions. But then it's going to be crucially important, Grace, that we elect godly men and women in the state house and state senate because there are heartbeat bills that are going to be presented all across the country to determine can abortions be allowed, when and where. We don't have a lot of time, but can you kind of address what you think legislative is going to be happening and maybe explain to our listeners what a heartbeat bill is, because that's probably going to be the most common bill, I think. What do you see happening legislatively?
I agree with you. I think a heartbeat bill is probably going to be the most common thing that we're going to see once this happens. Heartbeat bill is basically where once they can hear or sense the pregnancy, the heartbeat of the baby, they are not going to be allowed to do an abortion at that point, which is around six weeks.
So it is very early on. But one of the things that I want to stress is that as a movement, pro-life people have been kind of taken advantage of by legislators for a long time where they will give us a very small win. They'll ban abortion at 20 weeks with exceptions or 15 weeks at exceptions. So I want the pro-life community, after Roe v. Wade is reversed, to just cause a ruckus for your legislators, especially if you're in a Republican state that has not full-on banned abortion, and just call them up and let them know that, yes, we are happy, that if you do an incremental bill, bring us closer towards the final goal, but we're not going to be happy. We're not going to be done talking about this issue until abortion is fully banned in our state. We're happy with a 15-week ban. We're happier with a six-week ban, but we're not done until it's totally gone. Well, Grace, if six weeks is when a heartbeat happens, why are they passing what they call a heartbeat bill at 12 or 15 weeks? I don't believe those are heartbeat bills. There's a 15-week ban. That's one of the ones that the Dobbs case was a 15-week ban, but that was different from a heartbeat bill. Okay.
I didn't realize that, so that's good information to have. Well, folks, one way you can do that is attend. There's usually, in every statehouse or state senate race, there's usually either debates or what they call forums. And what I would encourage you to do is get them on a record publicly. Flat out ask them, will you sponsor or co-sponsor a bill that bans abortion at six weeks when the heartbeat occurs? Enforce them in a public venue and get it recorded and turn on a camera.
Turn on your phone and get them to publicly state that, and that's going to strengthen your case down the line. This is just such a huge issue, and Grace, I'm grateful for the work that you are doing at Students for Life. How can college students across the country learn more about your organization and get involved and educated?
If they want to follow me, they can follow me on Instagram or Twitter or TikTok or any of those. I'm ProLifeBarbie on all of them so they can learn what we're doing, what we're up to. They want to get involved with Students for Life. They can go on the Students for Life website and look for their regional coordinator and email them so they can get involved. This is the most crucial time in most of our lifetime to get involved in the pro-life movement. We need all hands on deck, especially now that Roe v. Wade looks like it's going to be reversed. We need people who are going to be lobbying their legislators. We need people who are going to be educating pro-lifers on how to defend their position. We need people on college campuses who are supporting women who are pregnant. We need people in pregnancy resource centers. We really just need all hands on deck. And if you are not involved, get involved. Reach out to Students for Life. Reach out to me.
We will hook you up with wherever you need to go. Well, Grace, thanks so much for being with us today. I sure appreciate it.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Well, folks, you can follow her at ProLifeBarbie.
That's ProLifeBarbie. You can learn more always at citizensforamericafoundation.com. Go to citizensforamericafoundation.com. Sign up to get our information. And we'll keep you plugged in with what Grace is doing as well. We need you on the front line. It's time to engage. Now let's go impact the culture for Jesus. Thank you for listening. The Christian Perspective with Chris Hughes. Learn more about impacting the culture for Jesus. Visit citizensforamericafoundation.com
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