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December 17, 2021 9:00 am
This week on The Christian Perspective, Podcaster and Blogger, Paul Horrocks, joins Dr. Chris Hughes to discuss the conflict in the culture and what is or is not happening in the Church and why Churches are failing to prepare Christians to speak truth in the culture. Paul Horrocks is the author of Tough Guys of the Bible. Learn more at www.biblicalcourage.com. Support his podcast at: https://anchor.fm/biblicalcourage/support
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This is the Truth Network in our modern culture. It's easy to find yourself thinking like the world, but this is not what Christ calls us to do. Dr. Chris Hughes cuts through the fog about culture and new cycle and compassion point of view to God's word in the Christian perspective, I will never be ashamed to be an American. We don't have to be ashamed to love a country that was founded on the Christian perspective with Chris Hughes Saturday afternoons at three on the truth. Prior to this show is brought to you by generous jobs. The coffee company with the Christian perspective, this is the answer that Christians and conservatives have been looking for a coffee company that gives back causes you care about.
Order your copy today at shop generous Joe's.and even subscribe to a subscription coffee plan and never forget the coffee you love or causes you care about. Get ready. It's one of America's most important, influential and respected voices on cultural and political issues and apologist Christian political advocate and author here, the founder and chairman of the America foundation, Dr. Chris what the Christian perspective will be looking God's word worldview and modern culture. Paul Horak has a unique gift and showing how Christians have led the way in promoting justice and human flourishing for more than 2000 years and and then as you listen show know that I love history and I found yesterday who loves history to Paul in his podcast and blog Springs inspirational stories of incredible courage of Christians around the world, not only from times past, but he finds people today who were displaying courage as they take a stand for Jesus and the culture around the world.
So Paul Horak's welcome to the Christian perspective have me on Chris Palmer I'm exciting that we we are recently got connected by a mutual friend in Anda and and I looked at your website and I can't wait to get a copy of your book. I'm just excited about what you're doing and the difference that you're making around the world and and encounter your ministry you're really focusing on something that nobody else is talking about is the courage of Christians that are taking a stand around the country. But I want to ask is you have an incredible testimony that I think many of our listeners can relate to. If you can, share your story of how you grew up in the church and went away and why you came back. I love you share your testimony with her audience today. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in a Christian home I get pastor I would joke that what good can't greatly baptize me. He held me under just a little too long and so I everything was good except when I went off to college I decided I was done with Christianity, only to do things my way. I wanted to chase the things of the world and basically from the time I was 18 till about 30.
That's what I did. I chase the things of the world, and I found that they were just incredibly happy that when you're chasing money and fame, empowering women and so forth is just nothing ever satisfies you to ask friends in my 20s what happened.
If I accomplish my goals. What happens if I have success in business or I make a lot of money or whatever it is an answer. They will wish to look at me funny like what you mean what happens that and there's just nothing will ever satisfy my early 30s I started to reexport Christianity by reading apologetic books and going back to church and basically just reexplain what you need to be a Christian as an adult, three year process came to the view that Jesus is real, that really was a Jesus and he really did come down and the form of a man and got across, and that is the path to salvation, and that that story is true and what was interesting know about that process is that when I grew up. The men and women in the church. When the culture of the Bible came into conflict. They tended to go with the Bible. However, when I came back to the church I came back in New York City and the church is attending. What I found. The pricing is that the Pope folks attended church. When the culture and the Bible came into conflict. They tended to go the culture and so it felt like something had changed while I was away from Christianity and all the sudden a more more people are saying I'm good to choose the culture over the Bible when it's difficult that I'm sorry if I can interrupt you really want to dive into that part that you just mentioned that before. Do you talk about how you took a break basically when you went away to college in you and you left the church in Paul. That's a real problem in our culture today allow survey show that a lot of kids that grew up in the church left and in many never come back in. In your research. Do you have a theory of why that's happening and then was or something that triggered you that made you want to come back to the Lord at some point later on. Yeah, I think that a lot of the kids walk away in my case I was very involved in church. My parents did a great job Mayport kids in the government went three for 43 never walk away idea of the black sheep. But why should a lot of kids that while there growing up there attending churches where no one is explaining to them what we believe in the Bible in these difficult areas where the culture the Bible, the conflict and so when they go off to college. My observation is very often that the only voice their hearing, the only truth. Their hearing is with the cultures telling women colleges and universities tend to be liberal and tend to have a worldview that's more secular humanist and anti-Christian and so that's my thought on why so many are walking away because no one has prepared them to have that conversation was prepared them to say what this is what we believe and why we believe the whites truth and so when you get challenged on it. Here's how you can respond, I think you hit the nail on the head there because so many I believe it leaves so many pastors and youth pastors believe that you just have to spoonfeed almost baby food to young people. And that's not the case.
I think with the generation we have a very intelligent generation of young people out there right now and they want to know the truth. They want to and to dig into issues and learn more. And if the church doesn't give it to them just like you said, they're going to take it from there liberal university or wherever they are because they're hungry for knowledge in their just not getting in the church today and I just challenge the pastors listening of youth pastors and Sunday school teachers dig into the Bible and teach young people what God's word has to say. So there prepared when they go on in the world. While it is you are sharing your testimony said you came back and you found the that the church was choosing culture over the Bible 20/20 thing that happened well. This eco-friendly movement that a lot of churches said hey we want to get people in the door want to emphasize the popular parts of the Bible and that theory, I think wise will get people in an overtime bill really come to understand by understand the Bible, but my observation is that what ended up happening is that a lot of these churches rather than trying to explain to people how to conform their lives to the Bible. They ended up trying to conform the Bible to the culture and saying Hamlet emphasizes popular parts on the show you how you can continue to live the way you're living, but still believe what the Bible has to say and so the part about discipleship, got skip and I know when I would talk to different pastors and some of the different churches I attended really challenge them, and why are we talking about these coverages why we going for discipleship. I just got a series of excuses as to why they were doing it and they weren't good excuses.
They were really excuses. Frankly, that was just my observation is that there is this push to be seeker friendly and on top of that, of course, you talk about how things a lot of times people will leave your church illnesses. They want to hear it.
And so a lot of pastors don't how to deal with that. How to deal with the risk of a people and leave my church and I think that's a real fear and I think a lot of pastors are going to have to answer to God one day because he calls us is men, women of God to boldly proclaim the word of God and not be afraid of of losing people or losing ties or whatever the case may be. Because of that, I think we've we've been in many ways turn our culture over to a non-Christian society today Morgan be held accountable for that in one day before the Lord. So do you think what you think we can do.
I know it will I'm with an organization called citizens for America foundation. We travel around and have luncheons for pastors across the country and we encourage pastors to preach the whole word of God and not to avoid those subjects, but many of our listeners you know are going to churches were pastors and not addressing these issues and you you said in your testimony that you began to read apologetics books on apologetics and so so those are your listening. That's kind of a church you were but basically apologetics is a way to defend your faith. You learn answers to questions to defend your faith. So Paul, are there some good books that you read the you might recommend to our listeners who want to learn more about these issues and learn how to defend their faith well why would come back I was reading books that were really basic and just.
Haywood, Christianity, truth, and so a great example of that would be advocates for Christ and that is a great book and just explained, was written by an author who was going to the process of really figuring out which Christianity truly was a court reporter and medic from really a well your perspective and his wife to become a Christian and he was trying to disprove it. Christianity was true but in the process of course ended up convincing himself that Christianity was true.
That's a great book because it really digs into the basics of. Here's what we believe Christianity is true in terms of some of the tougher issues I would say start with the Bible.
One of the things I observed is that there is not a push a lot of churches to get people to read the Bible on a regular basis and we really have to start with that foundation. This show is brought to you by generous jokes coffee company with the Christian perspective, this is the answer that Christians and conservatives have been looking for a coffee company that gives back to causes you care about. Order your copy today at shop generous Joe's.and even subscribe to a subscription coffee plan and never forget the coffee you love or causes you care about. Challenge yourself to read the Bible in a year. I know a lot of people think that sounds intimidating, but you can actually read to the Bible in about 70 hours a little bit more than an hour week, not actually that much time, maybe 15 minutes a day get to the whole thing and there are apps we can listen to the Bible on your phone and so it's really simple to do that. That's where I would tell people to start and if you want to graduate some of these more intense books and lots of other things that they can read as well.
I think that's great advice Paul, you know a lot of people today turn to other books which can't forgo reading the Bible, how can you defend the Bible. If you don't even really know what it says and you should be trusting an offer, you should as you say dig into the word of God yourself and and I've heard people say what I read it years ago. You know what I find is, no matter how many times you really got shows you something new every time you do read so I would encourage people to get there there on the online there ton of programs out there that they can show you yet you can read a little bit of the New Testament with the Old Testament every day or you can even read it and three months.
If you read about 13 or 14 chapters a day, so it can be done but like you recommended.
You can get these apps were some great voices like James Earl Jones you Darth Vader's reading the Bible to you, but there there great programs out there when you're driving you just turn it on and listen to it while you're driving, so I thank you for that recommendation because we really do need to understand our faith.
Another good book is a and you mentioned the case for Christ, as Lee Strobel who wrote that is written a series of other books and he is really got in and gotten into apologetics. I think that might be Canyon University there there some University.
Now that's open a school of of apologetics named after Lee Strobel. He's got some great work. The other authors there's another real good book. Chuck Colson is now dead. But he's got a book how now shall we live.
That covers a lot of issues as well, but your recommendation is spot on.
We need to read the Bible first and and then go from there. So you kind of now, I think through the ministry of your father so forth. You really decided to focus in on the courage of men in the Bible.
Men around the world.
How did that happen and how did that lead to the book that you wrote yeah so Mike coming back to church is that there was this focus on it's really easy to be a Christian that is seeker friendly mentality and pay anyone to be a Christian truly easy. I would sit there and think not actually quite hard to be a Christian if you really live out the command of the Bible because there is constant pressure from a culture not to do that and so I want to start highlighting that saying wait a minute were were giving people the wrong message and I think, quite frankly with men in particular, they don't respond to that message when you tell a man that he is really easy to do this, they might think to themselves or what I want to do it and who cares if you tell a man hates really hard to do this much more interested in much more willing to explore it and wanting to joke about. When I came back to the church I grew up with it and I really had a a foundation in this and I understood it, but I had not grown up with it and I came to the seeker friendly church and everyone said he is really easy to be a Christian and I looked around and most of the people not doing it so well.
I would say look at so easy, why are you also terrible at so I think it sends the wrong message and it seems very critical.
That's what really inspired want to get involved in this essay we need to start highlighting how hard it is to be a Christian. Why is also worth it be a Christian what your your book is called a tough guise of the Bible that correct yes. So when you were when you were writing the book. Yet, we all know about David and Goliath and give me some of the more common stories did you find characters in the Bible but that maybe some people don't know about that had a story of courage that you share your book yeah book is really the story of courage of these men in the Bible and their incredible characteristics, as well as more recent men including cement for my dad ministry and there's some men in the Bible you think about and think about in terms of courage and one I would like to point out is Stephen so we think is Stephen we think of him as the first martyr. I think we think of him really is a victim, especially in today's culture where being a victim is a really big thing, but Stephen had incredible courage for him to go out and proclaim the Bible.
It was because he was proclaiming it so aggressively that this group of Jews really put him in front of the Sanhedrin Council, but then once he was in front of the Sanhedrin Council. He didn't shrink from this challenge that was laid in front of the did he basically gave these members of the Sanhedrin Council a history lesson. He talked about the history of the Jewish race and how they rejected all the prophets and ultimately rejected Jesus, and that's really what led to them getting so angry that they stoned him as I think we think about Stephen was incredibly courageous and of course no one wants that and it would not be fun to be stoned, but when you think about and to think about what courage it took to stand for that group of experts and read him the riot act and tell them what got Hadley on his heart. That's one great example of somebody who had incredible courage. He minute.
Think of something like courage and about yeah and you're right I'm never really thought about that side of them. I mean, it was courageous for him to take a stand, but we do look at him as a victim's. I got really gave me some good insights and when you are studying these characters for your book now does the book have a think you have a companion Bible study book or group study book goes with your your book. Yes, we do so we have a Bible study. Go to Google courage.com and you can request a Bible study and it's basically following is a characters basically doing an eight week study showing you how different men in the Bible had courage and how we can respond designed for men and women can use it, but it is really designed for men's Bible study every thought about doing like a companion book of women at some point. Yes I mentioned that in her introduction that lookers incredible women in the Bible who were so courageous, but I just not the purpose of this particular book and what I say.
Stay tuned. And that type of thing that would probably write with my wife and bring her's perspective into it yet is incredible women. When you think about Mary's courage me think about Esther's carriage know there's there's always women who you would want to highlight that certainly something that we thought about whether so many great people in the Bible what one of my favorite characters is a guy named Sam Gore the most people never heard of is only mentioned in two verses in the Bible. He was a farmer in and wicked people were taking over the area and he just used an instrument that he used to counter her towels and work with cows and and God used him in a mighty way to defeat the enemy and kinda save the nation of Israel so that there are a lot of great stories in the Bible and again we don't know them. If we don't jump into the Bible and and read God's word.
While excited about the book. Are you getting a lot of traction with the Bible study portion of it. Yeah, people are signing up in their interest to get really positive feedback from people going through it and so we hope that it is an encouragement and, quite frankly, our whole oath with the book Bible study is that as you read through these studies in this book, it will cause you to go and read those passages in the Bible and the book itself heavily footnoted noted it to an extreme measure that my editor thought it was going overboard. We do that on purpose because we really wanted to make it really simple for you to read a story into him to go back and read the full passage in the Bible, and really understand these characters and deeper way.
That's great folks, if you're listening. The.
The website is biblical courage.com this biblical curse.com and you have a podcast as well as that on the same website is you get the podcast there and the podcast is really just an extension of the book where work highlighting more recent people who have incredible courage.
People who were taking wrist to serve Jesus in different ways. Some of them might be missionary some of them might be people who just took risks in their job might be people who started different ministries and so effectively interviewed you recently were to have you in upcoming podcast and really love what you're doing with your ministry and it's something that is so needed and quite frankly something that is to bring you some grief from people talking a bit on the cost of the heat.
You've already taken in your life from people who were don't like your message but got stored everyone highly similar. There are there some other examples are hers or somebody that really jumps out is someone who is taking a stand in the culture today and is paying a price for their displaying courage anyway. Yes, all types of people from the book that I love the people for my dad ministry who you would necessarily know their names because they're not people who are well known, but did incredible things and courageous things in their life, and one is guy named Chris and Chris had a job the salesperson and the boss comes and announces to the sales team look we are going to start deceptively billing our client start adding extra hours and bills on what we doing and so Chris is a single income household is his wife is at work you got five kids. The only provider and he goes home and is what I do here and talk about his faith at work. All the sudden people are looking at him, saying, hey, is your fate in real world is something that you just talk about what it could cost you something. You walk away. So the next day, Chris goes in work and what he does is he says the boss. I love you company. I wanted to work here, but I cannot participate in this susceptibility practice. I have to resign when his boss did was say you know what I'm talking any throughout this plan to deceptively go to clients until couple of things happen there one. Chris took the risk he was willing to walk away from his job. You know we did have another one lined up but God arranged it so that he would not have to lose income think I could've addressed that some other way. If the boss had told him to go and nation. But the other thing that Chris did his he had an incredible testimony at work were his faith really showed up in his action, and on top of that, he blessed only to the salespeople because they were going to have to make the same choice. So I stay there and do I participate in this susceptibility practice. Do I lead because he spoke up. He took the risk. The rest of them didn't have to deal with that choice to be blessed all the other salespeople in the organization as a result of his testimony and his willingness to take risk more.
That's an incredible testimony and in their stores like that probably all over the world today of Christians who are taking a stand and yeah Paulette I know you know with what's going on, not only in our country, but around the world. This is really becoming a time of persecution for Christians. A lot of people don't believe it, but is just to get more more difficult and if you read the Bible is not a surprise. The Bible tells us that this time is going to come and and if we don't do something as men and women of God. If we don't take a stand on the culture. Today we are going to lose, lose the right and the privilege we have to share Jesus Christ. So was it really is a trying time so that that's really exciting so your podcast does it come out on her on a regular schedule.
Somebody wants to find yet we tried to release one every week we try to be some on Wednesday. I can't say that I've been perfect and that that's the goal and they want to, go to biblical courage.com or they can certainly go to spot a fire Apple or Google wherever else podcast are hurt and typically have it on their again. More recent stories of people who taken risk in the first podcast we did was actually interesting story of a man named Joe. The heart and Joel was a missionary are really Jewish and Christian aid worker in Afghanistan is in the early 90s long before anyone knew where Afghanistan was one with them is over.
There is an animal health project where they are vaccinating animals to basically statement he's there with a veterinarian in their training people how to take care of their animals and warlord kidnapped and the warlord basically is trying to hold her ransom is trying to hold the veterinarian to the story is really easy to locate prison for six months.
He never doubts God and he continues to pray.
He continues to bless his captors by teaching them English by doing chores for them by trying to tell them about Jesus and so all this he just maintained his fate even though he's very disappointed. Every day we wakes up please not release over a six-month period is ultimately released. He doesn't know why he didn't know how that came about, but just an incredible story of somebody who maintained his faith in a really difficult circumstance and continue to serve God and God has used him as use that story and just continues to use them in a powerful way.
What what an amazing testimony. You know, we think about what we would do in situations like that, but we really don't know until the time comes and it's easy to not be a man of courage as you talk about your podcasting your booking and go along and take the easy route out. Try to avoid the pain of persecution that will come in so we need examples of this, like this man in our life we can look and see you how to take a stand and and and to be a witness to what what a great story were not only is he telling about Jesus, but he served him doing chores. I got Rhianna spot. I don't know if I would be like that but but God knows what he can see us through and I pray that I have the courage and others will is as well. So guys if you're listening. I just want to ask you to to visit biblical courage.com. That's biblical courage.com and every Wednesday.
You should get a new release of the podcast and there we need inspirational stories we hear about other people, but we very rarely hear stories today and even the church of people who were taking a stand in the culture for Jesus Christ and displaying that courage and if you want to read a great book you can go to his website to get up probably on Amazon and other such sites as well. Called tough guys of the Bible that stuff guys in the Bible, and then you can also get his study guide, which I would recommend if you have a home study group or Sunday school class or maybe Wednesday or Sunday night Bible study to check out this would be a great great Bible study for you to go through Paulette. I know your tire week we call Jamila Knight you're on a trip in California, but I thank you so much for being here with us today and thank you for all you're doing to impact the culture. Tell a story. Chris will thank you and thank you for joining me today. I'm Chris use. This is the Christian perspective please subscribe like your podcast and share with your friends on social media.
Let's go change the culture for Jesus. This show is brought to you by generous jokes coffee company with the Christian perspective, this is the answer that Christians and conservatives have been looking for a coffee company that gives back causes you care about.
Order your copy today at shop generous Joe's.and even subscribe to a subscription coffee plan and never forget the coffee you love or causes you care about in our modern culture easy to find yourself thinking like the world, but this is not what Christ calls us to do. Dr. Chris Hughes cuts through the fog of our culture and new cycle through compassion pointing you to God's word Christian perspective will never be ashamed to be an American.
We don't have to be ashamed to love a country that was founded on the Christian perspective with Chris Hughes Saturday afternoons at three on the truth. Prior to this is the Truth Network