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June 14, 2021 10:18 am
Chris is joined by Jay Seegert, a leading apologist on the subject of Creationism and the inspiration of the Bible, and Managing Director of the Starting Point Project - an initiative aimed at strengthening Christians in their faith and offering a gracious challenge to the sincere skeptic.
This is Stu Epperson from the truth.
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When we look in God word in order to develop a Christian worldview and modern culture. I'm Chris years in our guest today is a person who I consider to be one of the nation's premier experts on the authority of Scripture.
He's a supersmart guy holds degrees in both physics and engineering technology. He's a leading apologist on the subject of creationism and the inspiration of the Bible and how we have a biblical worldview and the culture today is newest love is an organization called the starting point project-based eager welcome to the Christian perspective a little warm. It's an honor to be on the program appreciate the opportunity J I'm just so excited to have you here. We met years ago when you were speaking in North Carolina. He made a great impression on me and and I tell you I just don't know many people in the world who have a grasp on God's word like you have so were so honored that you be our program today and share with our listeners and our focus is to tell Christians how they can apply a biblical worldview and the culture today and they need to be able to answer a lot of difficult questions and nobody answers as questions better than you, but before we get into that, you know, I'm just that I didn't know that you are a physicist and an engineer when I met you those years ago. How do you go from physics and engineering into ministry story. The short version.
I was raised in a Christian home, believe the Bible cover to cover the public school at your high school when I graduated and went to Christian college John Brown University in Arkansas. That's where was studying engineering degree. There I became more interested in physics and the transfer to State University in Wisconsin learned from in when I was pursuing the physics degree on the progress of her toenails along but everything that I believe and I realized for the first time in my life that I I know what I believe. But I didn't know why I could not defend the Christian worldview. So God put on my heart to start looking into things so I have been researching and speaking over 35 years on those topics. So I was doing that casually at the towards the end of college and then my first job I will just speak here and there are Bible studies, Sunday school classes men's group should do that for about 20 years and then I thought, God calling into full-time ministry that point I had my own computer programming business. I'm just running out of my home was going very well, but that felt the opportunity to move into full-time ministry, which is what I really wanted and so founded that originally was called the creation education center belief change the name to the starting point project on ideas that everyone starts somewhere with their belief system. It's impossible not to start somewhere. Christians starting point is the fact that we believe that God exists in the Bible is the word of God and the only use that foundation that starting point to define everything else and what science and logic actually are history, ethics, morality, philosophy, all those things get defined by our starting point.
Skeptics would have a different starting point.
You can estimate what have you chosen what made you choose and why do you think that that starting point, will help you accurately define everything else he get in the nation, casual conversations, it doesn't have to be caustic sold. That was God's calling about 15 or so years ago into full-time ministry.
So now I've been traveling nationally and internationally speaking, you awarded a universal organ. The LIFO evidence for design and evidence for the inspiration of Scripture in the Christian faith.
In general, well what a powerful testimony J I have to to kids in college right now on my son studying to be an aerospace engineer.
My my my daughter has to be a neurosurgeon one day but they're both in the science world and and it's exciting to see someone like you who is a scientist because the kids in college today. The students in college are taught that you how can a scientist believe in God or believe in creation or believe the Bible and here you are in a claimed scientist really and in in years teaching people that yes, it is possible to believe in science and believe in the Bible God is the creator of not not just people and everything around us, but he created science as well yeah it's it's an assumption. People while you got Klinefelter and one Uno you got the Bible on the other hand in it will kind of pitch fax loses faith in the ideas that skeptics are supposedly all about facts improving good news and Christians. Well, you know, we just have faith which is just no wishful thinking. In a blind faith in, and even many Christians have that sense, which makes him hesitant to share their faith because of the gallantly one of our regular people can learn to bring all the science of facts up in Christianity. Well, it is is just a faith and yet you have to disbelieve it and have a DVD called faith.
It is not a four letter word and I'm actually finishing up writing a book of the same title and it kinda dispels and dismantles that medical fax loses faith and it shows up.
Actually, everyone has faith in some even an atheist. I have faith that God does not exist because they cannot prove that whatsoever reach again. Have a chosen starting point and then we actually use low starting points to corporate. The evidence will all have the same evidence cover living on the same planet. In looking at the same dirt and same DNA subtly about those facts. It's about how those facts are being interpreted and if your starting point is off unity. Often, virtually all your interpretation.
So for me I don't spend as much time really debating those facts. I spent time analyzing someone starting point to see you before their starting might be erroneous and then dinner. Even though false conclusions when looking at the same facts that I'm looking at rights and and and that so important to have that starting point, and a lot of people when they become Christians at your at their starting point, they don't really know what God wants him to do what I know is you are sharing your testimony how you started in physics and then you hadn't really a calling by God on your life to do something else there might be listeners out there that are you wondering what does God want me to do or how do I know what to do you mind sharing a little bit about what a calling is and and how Christians can find their calling and do what God called him to do. The Bible tells us that God gives us the desires of our heart and that doesn't just over simplistically mean that you know. You want to give the remit of all. But I look at it a little bit deeper than than some people that it's not only that, when there are these godly desires that God fulfills them. God actually gives you the desire itself places a desire in use certain gifting and abilities and give you a desire and a passion for something of scriptural biblical godly and then he helps open the doors to fulfill those things and enables you to do the things that you want to have a plan for your life. You're not just spending time on this earth before you get to heaven really wants you to do something. There's a purpose for your life and you will develop that if you don't know specifically what that is yet.
That's okay. Just keep praying and you don't need to make any major changes in your life until he gives you that direction and opens the door so if you have certain interests in concert we pursue them.
But if nothing is obvious then that generally means keep doing what you're doing until the.
The opportunities to no avail themselves and you will help got a piece about it and use video very strong passion as well for me. I had a natural interest for many years to go into full-time ministry and full-time apologetics what the doors were not opening and I was frustrated and I was trying to get ahead of God by one point most in computer programming.
I got a spreadsheet out to see know how many talks that I have to give. How much would I have to charge to replace the income I had and I I was really good. A spreadsheet and I could not get to work and I felt like God is looking down. Same with this cute little spreadsheet you have the climate on a full-time ministry like oh that's nice is not my plan for you yet and so I had to back off and just continue to do programming for a while but was God's timing was very clear in. He opened the doors and outspending you 15 years, and his hands been all over the ministry. It's been very exciting to see what use doing again in his timing, which is just something you have to work towards and just be patient as is. God is a recurring way. You know, that's such an important point J that we need to really look at God's timing and I know we say that our time is not always God's timing. We think were serving him the way they want, but he has a plan for us and we have to get quiet with him which we don't like to do in our society today is just slow down and listen to what is telling us that we can accomplish what he's called us to do so. So J if we can run a jump in now because we really want to focus on Christian worldview of what's going on in the world today, and I know how much you really work with that each and every day in and in some your talk. She talk about how we live an upside down world what you mean by that. And then what are some of the issues that Christians face in the culture today and how do we deal with those issues. As Christians great quotient. I think in general, things have always been trending down Google particularly morally, the weekly seem interested in a little here little or just keeps going and going.
I think recently, most people would agree that I like the wheels are falling off and we have lost our moral compass and it's not that anyone individual issue is is too much to handle issues that, in a sense they're overwhelming the system. There are so many things getting this work. Transgender is LGBT to gay marriage and cancel culture and free speech infringements and media bias in social media, filtering and censorship of racism, election fraud, the green new deal doing a great reset finally change illegal immigration: thing vaccines and the idea of settled science and and on and on and it shifts it's too much for us and we can't fix all these, we can't change the world slowly gets overwhelmed that we often end up doing nothing but good news is, God is not asking us to change the world is asking us to evangelize and share the gospel with those around us and we can still do that and one interesting thing is what one of them is from the show.
Talk about each of those individual items. One thing that I think about when I think about all those things is those things are not wrong because they're problematic. They are problematic because they are wrong. We may go against God's order and if you look through the list. It's not always the thing itself that is quote wrong it's it's our response to elect me quickly. Climate change and nothing climate change is gone. I'm saying that perhaps our response to what they're telling us is wrong. Climate change is climate change with the climate is always change it always will. But the question really comes down to is the change we are seeing truly bad and will it be doing notably continuous and then secondly I really truly a huge factor in that equation are we really causing a significant amount of change which build different program, but so we have to look at these things and realize the reason were struggling with them in the world struggles is that they're going against God's created order because are typically denying that he's the creator. To begin with, so they are coming up with their own ideas, which are ever-changing rather than say hold on a second is God's universe he created. He owns it he gets to set the rules in the C-section given is that a handbook as to know why he created it. What a cheerful, why were here what he wants from us in and what are the things that are gonna make things go in a way that's honoring to him in and work well versus just getting to the mayhem that were seen today. Yeah you not think a lot of the things we see today are really just a symptom in particularly the younger generation. They don't realize that the issue is really sin and disobey the obedience to God's word and in my opinion is is really the main problem you said that they go against God's order hi Trevor, of the countries you do and and speak a lot of places and it just breaks my heart to see that a lot of pastors are not really addressing some of the issues you listed quite a few issues there. You hardly ever see any of those issues addressed from the pulpit at me.
Even issues like creationism ear when we were kids. Pastors talked about God creating the world you know in a week, but you hardly ever hear that now, and in most Christians, unfortunately, do not read the Bible every day is a should if they do, they're not getting in deep and studying God's word. As a result, we have a whole generation of people out there today who can't take a stand on the issues that you talked about because they don't know God's word or understand what God said about it. Are you saying that I when you go out speak as well but the huge problem you are dealing with a high level of biblical illiteracy because often the people to know certain churches for years and they're really not learning a whole lot of Scripture. There getting topical issues and how to be a better parent and how to deal of anger and a belligerent order not to have things to address, but you can't make that the majority what your teaching and so we typically have taken the Bible and chopped off the beginning and the end that you won't hear many sermons on creation on the details of Genesis chapter 1 truly know you are references GOD is our creator. The young universe and then you move on but you don't get specific because many church leaders and quads to controversial the topic is too divisive. There are different views out there. It doesn't really matter which really old as long as you think that God is the creator we focus on Jesus and on focusing on Jesus is great, but long before Jesus was Savior. He was creator John chapter 1 Colossians 1 and Hebrews 14 him by and through him all things were created, so free to focus on Jesus. We need taken just as seriously as creator as we do Savior and so what happens is you know these issues come up and we try to attack the issues itself and it turns out to be our philosophy versus someone else's wealth were we that the whole world should care what we think about gay marriage or transgender is what we should be doing unless someone brings one of those topics up should say hold on a second, let me see what God's word has to say and then we share with them the other person has a problem with sharing. It's not truly with us. It's with what God's word says and at some point they're going to give an account for that. We really are here to help people understand what God says and we want to do it in a very caring and very gracious way we were not the intent to know the truth.
It isn't our philosophy versus someone else's and what's happening in society in general was we started out pushing tolerance which at its core, tolerance is a good thing you know if someone has a different view than you you you should tolerate them. You shouldn't be annihilating them, but then tolerance morphed into acceptance. So not only do you put up with them that you're more accepting like it's okay and then acceptance morphed into celebration which melody you not just saying yes okay your you're supposed to celebrate with them whatever their lifestyle choices are normal. That and then one other thing that happened recently. I think, is that not only are you to celebrate, but you not only can't have a long opinion about these things. You can't not have an opinion or at least be the silent about your opinion there forcing everyone to pretty much take a stand on all these issues and it's gotta be the right views. If you're a doorknob company you have to have a policy statement on transgender is, and that it better be the right one. So it's it's really forced Christians tend to be involved in force their voice, which means if the church is going against some of these things are to get in trouble with society. So many churches either don't say too much or they say well yes, you know, we think it's okay. It's really not bad. We just need love people and except all these things well that's watering down the message and then they lost the effect would you you you hit the nail on the head on the head there you watering down God's word and that's what's happening in the pulpits in America today. Less than 10%, according to a study by George Barna less than 10% of pastors ever address any of these issues that you just mentioned are the: controversy over with me. A lot of times I say I don't I don't want to talk about abortion or homosexuality, or transgender is a because it's too political is not is not that is a controversial issue is not that is a political issue. It is a sin issue and those issues are addressed in God's word and in it either.
They don't need to be mad at what Jay Seger says or what Chrissy says. I tell him you don't listen to what I say listen to what God says God's word is clear that we are to take a stand against sin and and and like you said you they want to be so passive and inclusive and out. They love to tell me what you Jesus hung out with these people that people yeah Jesus did.
But Jesus never back down from sin, and he always called sin. Sin in and we don't want to talk about sin in the church today. I think that's a real problem.
We need to know what we believe is Christians and why we believe it so yeah I think you're right there. It is a big issue in the church to and when these issues come up sometimes in a Christian might say all the Bible says this or that and in the skeptical say all you believe the Bible eagerly religion out of this very often the Christian backs down.
Mr. Lloyd okay and now they're left to argue without their foundation with without their innocence.
Their only weapon and what's very interesting in that situation as a skeptic is asking you to give up your foundation. Your you will innocence your weapon, but they're not giving up. There's because you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. They believe the Bible is not the inspired word of God. They say you need to leave your belief out of this that the Bible is inspired God but they're keeping their believe that the Bible is not inspired word of God. What you should do is you should say you know what we both have beliefs with both coming to the table with beliefs of the starting points which are impossible to not have everyone start somewhere. Why don't we do this, why don't we explain and admit what they are and go from there and sold. That's what really needs to happen because the problem isn't so much these issues.
The issue is almost never the issue. The problem is the starting point, the authority of God's word and replace it. Why don't believe the Bible to inspired word of God. You could say that's actually the foundational issue.
Let's discuss that because if we can't get anywhere that were wasting their time with these other issues, because if you don't believe the Bible the inspired word of God promising not to come to the same conclusions that I would not gonna want to come to those conclusions and so let's view with that because that's the ultimate issue in a Christian should be ready to have that discussion, but I my experiences most really don't know where to start. If someone says they don't believe the Bible inspired regret how you start building this very solid case showing their soul much for the Bible is not just another generic religious book, but it's actually inspired God's J that really is where it all begins as Christians have to believe in so many even pastors today. Yeah, there's this new Christian liberal Christian is and that is entering the world today where even a lot of pastors don't believe in the inspired word of God, but that you you put that term out there. Maybe we have listeners who might not be Christians, or maybe the young Christians in don't know what that means.
Do you mind sharing real quickly what you mean by inspired and is there evidence of inspiration of the Scripture is inspired is used in different ways. An artist might be inspired to paint a sunset. It's very beautiful and just I just I was just feeling that that's what I painted. That's not at all what we mean by inspiration of Scripture uses Scripture to exit God received. These are the actual words of God. Yes, he allowed humans to convey those messages and you even see their particular writing styles in their writings. However, everything they wrote was what God inspired, so it's not just a general concept.
Plus mankind's thoughts and opinions. It's all very words of God written in human language and there is a lot of Evan 558 skeptic city. There is no evidence that God wrote the Bible. I have a simple question for them. What would you accept as evidence that the Bible is inspired me to go over that look like in your mind if you saw a BNC that would deftly be evidence that was written by God, and they say I don't know but I know there's no evidence wait a minute. If by your own admission, you don't even know what the evidence would look like, how do you know it doesn't exist effective. You don't have criteria that the judge is what counts and what doesn't. We can even have this conversation so it never really thought it through. They just repeat what they hear from everyone else at the Bible's outdated and disproved by science is filled with errors and contradictions in the last mall.
Can you give me some examples of errors and contradictions will just tons of them located and should be pretty simple.
Give an example or two while I can't think of any right now.
Okay it is done with the Bible is all about. From cover to cover, not, not all the details just it starts with this is happened that goes on and ends with this well you know it's been a while since I looked at it okay if you can't think of any actual errors or contradictions and you don't really know what it's all about. Are you sure you're not just repeating what you heard from everyone else versus your own well-thought-out research and again that's typically what happens. But then when you take it to the next step. The Christian should be able to step in and say your reasons why I am absolutely convinced it's inspired to God and giving you the very short version. I would tell a skeptic you know if God actually wrote a book if you really did that, I would expect to see a few things I would expect to see that it's internally consistent that it doesn't contradict itself doesn't truly contradict itself.
It doesn't spread pretty demonstrating rate that secondly had expected to be historically accurate when it talks about history. Better get it right.
Thirdly, if it makes predictions about the future if they been proven false. It's good evidence got it right that because God would know the future and then lastly I would expect if it makes statements that can actually be tested by science.
If it's been proven false, and we'll see that them, it's probably pretty good evidence got it like that either because he would know science and when you use those for generic tests internal consistency historical accuracy prophetic accuracy and scientific accuracy. When you use those final tests over test you can use any religious right another you apply them all the writings that are out there only one that passes those for tests the Bible and it passes it perfectly in the. Time to go through examples from each category. There's so much evidence that I say if you want to believe the Bible is not the inspired word of God. In the immortal words of Ricky Ricardo which some listeners will know you have a lot of explaining to do. Out of those writers get no all those prophecies right over 8000 passages in the Bible prophetic in nature covering like 700 topics in the 100% accurate and almost predictions some other Marriott for our future, but the rest of them fulfilled in 100% detail in the multi internal consistency historical accuracy in all the sciences and are critical to so much evidence that yes Christian has faith that the Bible is the inspired word of God. But it's an incredibly reasonable for a fact that by so much of well J what a way to end the show and I think you have to have you back because that was incredible.
We are getting to the meat and that is a real take away that we want our listeners to have today is that there is evidence for the inspiration of the word of God's J real quick of the close out the show. Can you tell us your website address. You have so much great information for the Christian to gain a biblical worldview where they go to learn more, go to the starting point project.com water resources. There is a mean thing to do is travel alone and speak me we don't charge for our engagements with new asset travel expense of the government is never charge for the engagement themselves in the DVDs in the book. I'm coming out with two new books, probably in July and five more after that. The big go to the starting point project.com. Thank you semi-say were looking forward to having you again and thanks for being with us today. I'm Chris Hughes and this is the Christian perspective, thank you for listening subscriber like a podcast. Please share with your friends and social media LSK change the culture for Jesus. The Christian perspective. Chris you learn more about impacting the culture for Jesus is a Christian perspective .us. This is the Truth Network