Homeless, Not Hopeless

This is the Truth Network. She's real fine, my four old nine. She's real fine, my gold night, my phone. Welcome to the Christian Car Guy Radio Show. I say this.

calls for action and now. Good morning. This is Bill Mixon. I've got the wonderful opportunity to fill in for Robbie Dilmore this morning on the Christian Car Guy Show. And I've got a couple wonderful guests with me this morning.

I've got one of the true heroes of my life who's the director of City with Dwellings. Back when COVID hit and almost every other organization hid under a rock or worked out of the house, City with Dwellings rolled up their sleeves and went out and worked with the least of these and protected the homeless and the near homeless and the folks that were in distress. Lee Thulsberry is with me this morning. Say hello to everybody, please. Good morning, everybody.

Glad to be here. And she's got a friend of hers own, Pastor Carter Ferguson from the New Story United Methodist Church. That church is doing a great deal working with the homeless in our community and have great plans for doing a lot of other things soon. Good morning, Carter. Hey, what's going on?

We appreciate you coming on this morning. Lee, a lot of people have these really strange stereotypes in their mind about homelessness and those that are homeless. On my Facebook page, I see something about every 15 minutes that these people should be out finding a job and working. Why should I give any of my money to help them? And fortunately or unfortunately, I've got some family members that if you tried to help them get a job, they might be able to get one, but it would take at least two people supervising them on the job.

It probably would still not end up working well.

So would you share with us a little bit about what City with Dwelling does and why? Absolutely.

So City with Dwellings started as a response to the city losing its winter overflow shelter. And our Homeless Council COC said, we have to have one, and we need to find somebody that would do it.

So there was a pastor on the south side that they approached, and he figured it out. For 11 years, it's still going strong. City with Dwellings stepped out this year to focus on long-term housing and other entities stepped up for the challenge. St. Timothy's Episcopal Church and the Dwelling Methodist Lutheran compilation of church stepped up to do that.

But what we quickly realized was it is a terrible time to ask someone. About their housing stability. Just what is your plan at 7:30 at night when you're hungry and cold and tired?

So we realized quickly that we needed a daytime presence, and we weren't a thing. There was no city with dwellings at that point. It started out me, I went out on the street, quit a job, and learned as much as I could about homelessness and housing insecurity in Versyth County. We've been a nonprofit for about seven and a half years.

So we're a baby nonprofit, but we've been working with the population of our neighbors experiencing homelessness or imminently homeless since the winter of 2012-13.

So we have morphed into many things as a response to the need. And as we learned the need. Carter, your church has done some things with city with dwellings. I know you were one of the churches that when in the winter somebody didn't have a place to stay, I think the men would come over and stay in your basement. Yeah, yeah.

That was some years ago they opened a shelter in response to the basic need for being able to be Outside of our inside from the cold, and so it was in our sanctuary. We housed, I don't know, Lee, how many was it, 20 or 30 men? Yeah, between 20 and 30. That was every night that it got close to freezing. I don't remember.

So I was not there. I got there in July 2023, but I believe that was the Yeah, no, it was every night. For 122 straight nights or 121, it depended on the year, because what we realized was when you do things just based on the weather, that's a harder way to form community and form trust. And it's also harder to get volunteers for food every night when you only have a few hours of notice.

So it was 122 straight nights for 10 solid years. Carter, what else has your congregation and you done with the homeless? Yeah, so we have a thing, we have a program every Wednesday night, doesn't have a name or anything like that, where we open our doors and we have a community meal, which is really important. to us because we don't consider these people people that we serve. as much as we consider them people who are part of our family.

So, we just like Citywood Dwellings, have people who are regulars who are always there, they come all the time. Um so they come we have at dinner in our dining room. We eat together, we hang out together, we talk. Then we have a very voluntary worship service that starts at 6 o'clock. And it's really important to us that it's clear that it's voluntary.

Um so I'm I'm from Arkansas and I had to deal with ministries when I was in Arkansas. working with the homeless who would say, hey, Lee, we would love to give you some you know tomato soup and a grilled cheese sandwich when it's 20 degrees outside but you've got to listen to me Reach first. And I just don't jive with that whatsoever. And so we have a voluntary service that people can come to, and if they don't want to, they don't have to come to it. And then after that, we have a clothing closet, a food pantry, and recently, in the past several months, we launched the ministry closer.

Mm. New Story Wim New Story Women's Outreach, which is one of the few places in the city where women can come get feminine hygiene supplies for free. if they're on the street.

So that's what we do every Wednesday night. You know, one thing that really surprises me If you're driving around a city like ours and you see some shopping carts somewhere that you're just absolutely sure that's the dumbest place in the world for a shopping cart to be, if you slow down, you'll probably see a very well worn path. Going from that shopping cart back into the woods. And once you start realizing there's probably a community of three or four up that path, you'll start noticing that when you drive around about 20 feet back from where they quit mowing and you look, there will be a lot of tarps and tents and shelters set up back in the woods. And once you turn your radar on, there's a whole lot more people living under bushes and living in trees than I would ever have dreamed 20 years ago.

Lee, what would you say the housing? I know we've got at least 12 to 14 percent more last year than the year before. You got some feel for how many homeless we've got? Yeah, so we are a pretty small nonprofit, and there's not a lot of formal street outreach in Forsyth County. Right now, City with Dwellings represents the largest group, and that's just a few of us.

So we can't hit everybody, and we're responsible for entire Forsyth County.

So a lot of the outlying areas we are just physically not able to visit. But partnering with Forsyth County, you know, the Winston-Salem Police Department, the County Sheriff's Department, EMS, the Behavioral Health Group, we think there's between 800 and 1,000 people living street homeless or in their cars or in an abuse. Abandoned house or in the backyard of someone that they can't use the bathroom, but at least they could be in the backyard. At any given night.

So in our one county, you're talking at about 1,000 people. Does that include the people that are in the jail and the people that are in the mental health ward at the two hospitals and Old Vineyard? That does not. And so we've got lots of treatment programs in the county, Hawley House, and Hosanna House and Solas Christas.

So there's probably another thousand in all of the treatment programs. Yes, and the shelters. That does not count people in the shelters. That is literal street homelessness, which is a place not meant for human habitation. Which a shelter is considered that, but when you're talking about literal street, that's the numbers that I'm referring to.

Yes, there are quite a few more people that have a bed to sleep on or a cot to sleep on at night.

So in our county, it would not surprise you if the number was between 2,000 to 3,000 people in just our one county that don't have a home of their own. Correct. And HUD considers families living in hotels or families doubled up as homeless as well.

So, with families, so that adds even a whole nother number. And the people that go from one friend's or family's sofa to the next friend's family and sofa that, you know, six days out of the week when the check's not coming in, there's a totally different number there too, right? There is, because that is not considered literally homeless. That's considered doubled up and not eligible for any of the dollars or services.

Now, the federal government says there are at least 152 Chronic homeless, which is a little different than what we've just talked about. Real quick, what's chronic homeless?

So, chronic homelessness is just one thing, according to HUD. You have to have a documented disability.

So, a mental health, physical health, emotional health, or substance use disorder, or a combination.

Now, in our community, you have to have 12 months of homelessness on top of that.

Okay, so stay with you're listening to the truth network and truthnetwork.com. We thank you for dialing back in and listening to our show this morning. This is the Christian Car Guy Show and this is Bill Mixon filling in for Robbie Dilmore. And we're talking a little bit about home or a lot about homelessness this morning and the need for affordable housing. I know a lot of the people I talk to when you talk about homeless, they picture the person standing on the side of the road with a piece of cardboard saying, I'll work for food.

And you are real, real, real sure that that piece of paper is not quite the truth. But there are a lot of people that are homeless that we don't really picture as being homeless. There are a lot of young mothers that are homeless. There are a lot of people that have been working a minimum wage job at an apartment and the apartment rent went up $200 a month and they were Barely making it before the rent went up. There are a lot of people that have jobs and their car quits on them.

And that car quits and they miss two payments and then they write one bad check. And in 15 days, they have a $2,000 problem sitting in their lap and they haven't been able to bring in any money. Lee, tell us a story or two about some folks people wouldn't recognize. It's a homeless situation. Yeah, so my heart always goes to these moms who have been caring for an older adult with their children, and the older adult dies and they lose their housing.

And so they have to go out and find a job.

So if you've got a couple of children and you go out and find a job, it's very rare that when you bring all of them with you, And they say, do you have reliable transportation and reliable child care? And if your answer is no, you're not going to get that job. There are things called daycare vouchers, but you're not going to get, you can't get a daycare voucher unless you've gotten a job.

So it's a weird loop that people, kind of a hopeless loop that people get into. And that's just one example.

Now one thing this show does is it does take donations of cars that can be repurposed, reused, fixed up, and given to mothers that are at the end of their rope and their transportation doesn't exist.

So if you've got a vehicle that you'd like to donate to our program, please call the station at 866-348-7884. I was wondering, Carter, are there any other things that your church is doing right now working with the homeless and those that are about to be homeless? Yeah, we've got a couple of things that are sort of stewing there in the background. One of the things that we're working on doing is we're always working on if an Lee will will understand this. that if you have the ability to capture sort of the hearts and the minds and the community community with homeless people.

I think that it's Sort of on you to bring services to them.

So, one of the things we work on doing, and we did this in Little Rock, Arkansas, with remarkable success. Is that try to bring service to the people because a lot of people don't realize that one of the main issues for homeless people is transportation.

So if I have homeless Lee and I'm trying to get Her help and trying to do things for her. One of the challenges is it's hard for Lee to get out around with any pace. It's easier for you and I. And so it's easier and more effective to bring those resources in the house, if at all possible. And so we're working with a couple of groups to try to bring things like maybe monthly health care or something like that in.

We've got a partnership with Johnson and Johnson that is sort of budding out there and an OBGYN that we're in conversations with to bring in to do a little bit more intense um health work with women on the street and things like that. The other thing that Uh I don't know if you want to if it's okay to transition into the housing side of things is What kind of what Lee was talking about, there are a lot of people out there that are homeless you don't see, and one of the places those people are are in these really nasty hotels around town. They'll be on these hotels. We've got probably a dozen people who come to our church on Wednesday evenings. who are paying $1,500 a month in hotel costs.

to stay in a hotel and they're literally house poor, but they're in a hotel. Because of something that happened, and that's what they're doing to stay off the street. And so we're working with some folks with the city and then some other organizations around town to begin to develop some affordable housing for those people so that I think Lee, you called them the imminently homeless, I guess. I love that. That's a really good way of putting it.

Uh to try to shut that spigot off. Um, because there are all of these different flows that That create homelessness, and one of them is. people who are staying in hotels. And so we're actually getting ready to try to build what we hope will be a miniature home village. Yeah.

from us in partnership with several other organizations. to provide housing for those people so they never fully fall to the street. If that makes any sense. Yes, sir. In our community, there's a place called Crisis Control, which a whole lot of different churches and organizations got together and they brought resources to that one nonprofit.

So if people are on the end of their rope and they need a little bit of help to make a payment, they can get help there. It also allows all the churches to call in and say, This person's spinning a story. What do you have on this? And it helps them not duplicate services.

So I would challenge everybody out there to check your own community, call your own library, and see what type of services are available in your county.

Something you can do is to put together a resource, say one page, that lists all the different resources that are available for somebody that's at the end of their rope. Don't get out of your car, don't give people money, but have a care package in your back seat with a bottle in it, a couple snacks, and with that resource sheet in it. And if you really want to go up and above, if there's some fast food restaurants in your town, stick a $10 or $15 coupon to that fast food restaurant in those. Bags.

Now, you got a church and you're trying to figure out a way to get them plugged in. Help them put together those bags and then share it with the other people in your church so that in their back seat they've got four or five bags worth of resources and basic necessities. But I highly don't, highly recommend don't give your money to the homeless people. You don't know where the money is going to be spent. But there are organizations in your community, in your county, that you can partner with, that you can find out what you and your friends and your members at your church could do to get involved in your community to help the people that are homeless.

To have a bunch of people you know praying for the people that are homeless is a wonderful idea. And there are occasions where I've stopped and I've told the person standing there with the cardboard sign, if you walk over to that restaurant right there, I'll meet you there and buy you breakfast and we can sit and talk a little bit. You don't have to sit and talk, but make a friend. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Uh You know, some of you may know what I mean when I shait say there's a difference between sheep and goats.

And one day we were really going to hope that we're in the right line.

So, I say that because I really would love for you to have a compassion for those people that are really easy to not have compassion for. And I'd like to open your eyes to realize there are a whole lot more homeless around us than we give credit for, and that some of them have some really interesting stories. I mean, there was now a lot of the folks that I've met have some emotional, psychological stories. Difficulties that really make it hard for them to have a job like we think they should have. There are quite a few I know that get a job as a waitress, do real well for two or three weeks, and then hit that trough, and nobody can deal with them.

I know there was this one young lady I thought a lot of that came through, and her rent had gone up $200 a month. And she had been homeless for the first time for a month before she found City with Dwellings. The people, if you talk to her, you never would dream that she was homeless. And you sort of would wonder how in the world that somebody could get to that point. But there are a lot of folks around us that you wouldn't even know are homeless, that they're living out of a car, they're spending most of their time in the library when it's too hot, that would love to have a job, but they don't have the transportation to get to it.

Well, the folks that I'm talking about are the type that if you gave them an apartment and you gave them furniture and you gave them clothes and you paid for the the utilities, they still would need somebody to check in with them on a regular basis. When COVID hit, City with Dwellings helped a whole lot of people get into A hotel, and in the middle of the COVID, they realized that the grant would run out, and they had to go find in their community some really large property owners that had some apartments that were so unbelievably beat up that nobody was living in them, and the landlords never thought they would ever fix them up again. And City with Dwellings with the Dwelling Church came up with volunteers and resources and refurbished these apartments with the agreement that the property owners would allow those units to be used for the chronically homeless. And that in one case, you've got a staff person that actually lives five days a week in that community, right, Lee? Right.

So, what you're referring to was a wonderful effort by the dwelling church. City with dwellings had a very small role. We went and painted a little bit.

So, that was wonderful. And so that housing case managers and people with low income could move into. units that were just falling apart. They were just sitting there rotting and no one could live there. They got volunteers to come and do the work.

They had lumber delivered. It was a wonderful effort. After two hours cleaning up one of those apartments, I was never scared of COVID again. I figured if I made it out of that place that day that my system was, but it was amazing what they were able to find. There are apartments around you in your community that your church could do something like this with.

And if you contacted City with Dwellings or the Dwelling Church, they could walk you through how you might be able to help some of the homeless in your community. But beyond that, Lee has a vision of having a community for these folks. And Carter's got a vision for a place for people that just aren't quite there enough that they can have a job.

Well, we believe at City with Dwellings, and I think this is national because there's a beautiful place in Austin, Texas called Mobile Loves and Fisheries. There's a place in Wilmington, North Carolina. There are places all over the country that are building. Community, it's not just a unit to give someone a key and to pay everything. The one in Austin, Texas, there is a rental requirement.

And so I want Carter to talk more about his dream, but we really think at City with Dwellings that A lot of the folks that we serve crave that community, I think as human beings, I think as creatures made by our God, that we are made this way. And so we need to take care of one another and we need to watch out for one another. And it's hard to do on the street when you literally are having to keep one eye open to make sure that the rat under the bridge doesn't eat your food or that somebody doesn't steal your belongings. And some of these people are grandparents.

Some of these people are over 65 and there's no way to check them into a really nice facility. I mean, a lot of the folks you help, you end up trying to find somebody that's got an apartment available that wants $700 a month. For a little old person to live in that apartment. And in some cases, I mean, you really have to vet those folks. Yes, and our two biggest or fastest-growing populations of folks experiencing homelessness are imminently homeless.

And I mean, you're going to be homeless in 14 days, not three months. 14 days is what I'm talking about: an eminently homeless. And that's a HUD requirement.

So these folks are, they've been living. They're not. Taking vacations, they're not getting to go to the movies, they're not getting to buy ice cream for their children, but they have been paying their rent and the utilities and making sure that their children got to school. And there are older folks that have been making sure they got to their doctor's appointments. There's lots of wraparound services, but the housing is the issue, and it's so expensive.

And it just shot up during COVID, and there's no looking back now.

So, you've worked your whole life, and you're living off your Social Security income, and you've been doing it for six to eight years, and now you literally cannot afford anything that you don't qualify. It's not that you can't pay it, but a landlord, rightfully so, wants you to be making three times the rent. The landlord wants to make sure that he or she gets paid and the utilities get paid. And most of you folks have no idea how your bus, your city bus system works. In our city, and in most cities, it's a spoke system.

So, you got to walk three or four blocks to get on a bus. Bus and then it comes by maybe once an hour, maybe once every two hours. Then you've got to take it downtown and get off at the bus station. Then you've got to wait an hour, an hour and a half to get on the bus to go where it is you want to go. You've got to pay for all that, but it can be a three-hour ordeal going and coming, which can make it almost impossible, even if you have a job, especially if you've got a dependent that you're looking after.

So, one car problem. One car problem can ruin a whole lot of people. A lot of folks out there that don't have any savings, they've got debt. And when that one problem happens, they go from somebody that you're going to church with one week, and two weeks later they have absolutely no idea how they're going to pay their bills or stay in their apartment. Carter, understand your church is looking at a way to take or use some of the property your church owns or near your property to help some folks like this.

Yeah, so it's actually in cahoots with a guy who owns a business next to us, who's an amazing guy. And essentially, what happened is when I got to New Story in 2023, they were doing some really, really great work, but I challenged them to. Uh but to how do I want to say this they were putting what I call bandaids on bullet wings. And so they were doing things that I felt like was really, really good work. You know, the whole phrase, give a men a fish or teach them to fish, they were giving a men a fish.

And so I began to challenge them. What does it look like to also teach? Yeah. What does it look like to address system it system systemic and fundamental issues and part of that was housing. And so from the moment I got there, I had this dream of being able to use this property across the street.

for some things because as Leah said, housing in a lot of ways is the silver silver bullet here. I see Lee, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was a study done not too long ago that the average cost of a homeless person in Winston-Salem was somewhere in the neighborhood of. $32,000. Yeah, it's closer to $40,000. It's closer to $40,000.

That's not the person that's in the jail who's spending. months out of the year sitting in a jail cell, that cost is even higher. And if they're sitting in the hospital, that cost is even astronomically above But goitzid, I'm sorry. Yes. No, you're good.

And that's what they've shown is, you know, you ask, okay, homeless league costs closer to $40,000. You know, if you look at the numbers that she gave earlier, what did you say that number was earlier, Lee? Let's say that's 800 homeless, right? Let's just go low on it. I mean, do the math there.

That's what is that? That's $32 million that the local economy is costing. are losing to homelessness and and and the the the lion's share of that is in health care. And it's more than that because, of course, those are point in time counts. That's a national count, one night of the week.

It's not, you know, our account in our Forsyth County was more like 234.

Well, I see 234 people in a week.

So, you know, a different so you know, we know our numbers are 10 times that, and most communities are the same.

Well, I would say this to you. If there's just one, if there's just one homeless person that you know of in your community and These are Christian listeners. You're going to Christian churches. If there's just one homeless person in your community, Isn't Jesus telling us that that one person is worth our time, energy, and effort? That we should be doing everything we can to lift that one person up?

You know We're supposed to look like and act like Jesus. Our shoulders, our hands. We are Christ walking around on this planet, and we've got an obligation. to make a difference in the lives of those that Jesus puts in front of us. Pray for these folks.

We'll be back in just a minute. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back. We're so grateful to be tuning in to the Christian Car Guy. Robbie is out.

This is Bill Mixon filling in for him. I've got two wonderful people with me, and we're talking about homelessness. I think Jesus made it real clear that we've got a responsibility to help those that He puts directly in our path, in our neighborhood, in our immediate area. If you've got a church and you live near one of the bus routes, I would encourage you to prayerfully consider maybe a small apartment on your property to help with six or eight. Folks in your community might be an idea.

If you've known somebody that's got a house and there's Not anybody living in it, and they want to donate it to the church, that it can be utilized in a ministry to help a few families or a few individuals live in the house, with the idea that you've got a congregation that can check on those folks, that can love on those folks, that can invite those folks to come to your church. But in your greater community, there's a huge need for folks that need affordable housing, that need a roof. And I would encourage you all to check 211 on the phone. You can call up and say, I need to know in my county who's helping the homeless, and they can look that up. Or you can go to your public library and they've got an information person or an information desk and say, look, I'd like to find out in our community what are the resources that are available.

Above that, you might put together a list of five or six different places that are available in your town that you know are up and running. In our area, we've got a great food bank, a wonderful food bank. And there are folks that don't realize there's a whole lot of food available if you're at the right place at the right time in the county. We've got a wonderful men's shelter that has a food kitchen, and 365 days a year, anybody can go get a really wonderful meal there. And there are folks that don't realize that that's available.

That mental health help, to have a phone number in your community where to call, to get help when all is going crazy. And at the bottom of your resource list, you may attend a congregation that's the type that would welcome people to your church. And you can put a note on there. This is our address. You may be one of the select few that's brave enough to actually put a phone number on there that says call and help.

To go to your local park. With three or four of you with a resource list and some Bibles, and to stick a sign up that says Prayer Station, and let people come up to you and say, I've got a prayer concern that I'd like to share with you. Would you pray for me this week? And if you're smart, you can write down their name and their cell phone number, and you can call them Saturday and you say, You know, we have been praying for you all week long, and we were just wondering, How are you doing? And then let them know on Sundays your best friends gather together and you'd love for them to join you.

Think about ways that you can reach out into your community instead of just talking to the people that you're comfortable talking with. Carter, where is the verse in the Bible that says you should only do those things that you're comfortable doing? Get the gems. That's uh I don't I don't I've not been able to find that. And and can you hear me?

Yes, sir. In fact, I was just thinking about it, you know, there's that verse in the Bible, or the story that Jesus tells. about this guy who nobody likes, who's on the side of the roads. and he's inconvenient and he's dirty. It literally comes from a group of people that the that the Jews just really hate it.

And you have all these people that go by. And and it's You know, it just Jesus tells these stories over and over again about how we should be helping people. And so it sort of boggles the mind that we have entirely. swaths of Christianity that aren't just opposed to it. but are actively opposed.

To it. I don't know how to reconcile those things when one of the most repeated commands in the Old Testament is take care of the orphans, the widows, the aliens, and the poor. I'm not sure they're opposed to it. I think it's more like they need somebody to spit in the mud and put a little bit in their eyes and they need to go wash it out. It's that we don't see what's right in front of us.

It's not that we're opposed to anybody and everybody else doing whatever they want to do to help them.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, not to push back on you at all, but I've sat in churches where I've been asked to come in and consult on how to help them become missional. And they've had the exact same response that you were talking about at the top of the show, where you said. Um that why don't these people just get a job? You know what I mean? There is this sense of resistance at times, but I think you're right if you can open people's eyes to see that these people are.

They're just like, you know, like you said, they're like your grandma or your sister, or they're just like the rest of us. They've just had something hard happen. I think you're right. I think that could be the mud in their eyes that could be washed out and help them a lot. I really like that.

Now, if you know that there are things that you can offer people, if you've researched what resources are available in your community, if you've got them written on a piece of paper, it takes some of the fear out of talking to somebody. If you're scared that if you talk to them, there's absolutely nothing you can do but reach in your pocket and give them cash, it's a little bit scary. But if you've done the research and you know what's available in your community and you've got it written down on a piece of paper and you're willing to say, if you will walk, Over to that restaurant over there, I'll be glad to buy you a meal, and then sit down and talk to somebody and listen to what their problems are. Your life can change. You need, I would encourage everybody to think about the homeless people that you see.

Now, they may or they may not be homeless, but if somebody's pretending to be homeless, if somebody's pretending to have nothing and that they're begging, they got some big problems. Even if they live in a really nice house and they decide that they want to go out on the side of the street and pretend that they're homeless, they're worthy of your time to pray for because they got some real problems. On the other hand, that person that's on the side of the road may be exactly what they look like, and they need somebody that's willing to just smile at them and say, I've got a little care package for you. Give me your first name. I'm going to be praying for you.

Yeah, I agree with that. You know, what Jesus says is help people. And I think a lot of times I just really appreciate what you said, is people are afraid that if they do something for someone, that it can be used in an inappropriate way. But you know That's the risk you run with people, you know what I mean? I think coming prepared probably does take a lot of the fear out of it because I did not get into this.

I don't know how long Lee's been in this business for a hot minute. I got into it knowing nothing because I was appointed to a church in Arkansas where I had to learn. And I spent probably a year or two scared to death. and having no idea what to do. But over time, I learned how to get a grip on the situation and how to help people and how to read people too.

There's a gift there to learn about how to really read people and what they're trying to get Accomplished. Do you agree with that, Lee? Yes, I thought I had a real grip on it. My husband and I, for many decades, volunteered at a local homeless shelter. And then when we Got involved, our church was involved, one of the first ones that first winter of winter overflow.

I knew nothing about people. And even though it had been 30-some years volunteering at a local shelter, I knew nothing. And the opportunity to be in community with people is what's going to make a difference. It's what's going to heal. And so, your prayers, your smile, your caring, it is going to mean more.

It's going to mean more than those $2, I guarantee.

Some of the stories that pop into my head, the guy gets off the bus to go get something to eat. He hadn't eaten in two days, and lo and behold, the bus didn't wait on him. I mean, who in the world would have thought that bus wouldn't wait on him? And he's in a city he's never been before. He doesn't know where to go for help.

He's got 50 cents in his pocket, and he shows up at City with Dwellings. Or the guy that's driving through town with four of his best friends, and they stop in the middle of town and say, why don't you hop out? You know, you don't always know who your friends are. And then there are cases with, you know, mothers come in with children and you're just shaking your head. You can be in a situation where you make a difference in your community.

Your shoulder can be wet with the tears of people. like Christ's. Your hands can lift folks up. Your prayers are powerful. And I encourage you, get with your friends a Sunday and pray about the homeless.

Try to figure out what you can do. Citywithdwellings.org, citywithdwellings.org. Look at the webpage. Send an email if you've got a question. There are all kinds of things that you can do in your community.

And we're called to make a difference. Mm.