"Beneath Sheep's Clothing": How Communism Penetrates Modern America

Hey, everybody. It's time for The Charlie Kirk Show. James Lindsay joins the program all about woke communism. He has a new movie out called Beneath Sheep's Clothing. You can find that at salemnow.com. That is salemnow.com. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Subscribe to our podcast. Open up your podcast application and type in charliekirkshow and become a member today. It's members.charliekirk.com. That is members.charliekirk.com to support the show and be part of our growing family, members.charliekirk.com. Buckle up, everybody.

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Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. One of my favorite people in the world. Great American, great friend, smart, wise, tough, funny. Dr. James Lindsay is with us. Dr. Lindsay, welcome back to the program. Hey, Charlie. How are you doing?

I'm doing great. So lots to discuss this hour, but I want to make sure we plug the movie that you're involved in. I had somebody come up to me in Albuquerque, and he said, Charlie, you got to check out this movie, Beneath Sheep's Clothing.

It's unbelievable. This guy was just like on fire. I don't know if he works on the team or he saw a preview. I mean, he was like an evangelist for this film. Dr. Lindsay, tell us all about it. Man, Charlie, I'll tell you, because like normally I'm a little modest to talk about stuff that I am involved in, but I've had a flood.

The movie came out last Friday, and so it's been out just for the weekend, really. And I have had a flood of, you know, messages sent to me that this thing is incredible. This film is going to save the republic.

Everybody has to see this. I've never seen a response like this. So it's really exciting. The point of the film, honestly, was to show what happened in Soviet Union in churches and in schools and to say we're seeing similar stuff here in the United States now with Woke.

We're saying that communism is not coming. It's here and that we have to wake up and deal with that. So we made a film because books do a lot, shows do a lot, interviews do a lot, social media does a lot. But a film really can reach people and it's high action.

It's extremely high production quality. It's really engaging. It's hard to stop watching it once you start. I've seen it a bunch of times and I've heard every time I have to get through it because I can't put it down. And it's just I think it's a really fantastic vehicle to tell America exactly what is now, frankly, on our ballot, which is communism's here. I want to.

That's exactly right. So let's play the trailer here. And the film is Beneath Sheep's Clothing.

People can find it at SalemNow.com. And I tell you, James, this person that came up to me in Albuquerque, you'd think that he just saw the Godfather the first time, right? I mean, he's like, Charlie, you got to check this out. And so I echo that.

Let's play cut 74. Here's the thing about communism. When it comes knocking at your door, it doesn't say, hi, I'm here to impoverish, enslave and murder you. It says, I'm here to liberate you from oppression. You take over the colleges of education and you take over all the teachers and you take over all the students.

Unless you get the future. He said the ultimate objective of having government school was to destroy Christianity. Those were his words. People's war means to destroy the opposing country through unconventional methods. And Khrushchev bragged about it. We'll take America without firing a shot.

In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of American students without being challenged. The result? The result you can see.

So that's just a little taste. That was Yuri Bezmenov at the end of that clip there. So, James, I'm curious on a personal basis, typically your emphasis is Mao. I mean, you always pepper around the communist buffet of the 20th century, the horror show. Why the Soviet Union? What about the Soviet Union stuck out for you for the need to participate and help make this film? Well, I wanted to help participate, make the film, because I have a lot of ability to connect what's going on with communist regimes of the past to the woke regime of the present. But actually, this was Julie Beeling. That's the woman at the beginning of the trailer. It's her documentary.

She's the director and it's based off of a book she wrote by the same title. And so she actually has a master's degree, a double master's degree in Russian literature and Russian history. And she did her mission.

She's Mormon. She did her mission in Soviet Union or sorry, in Russia immediately after Soviet Union collapsed in the 1990s. So she had all this firsthand experience picking up what was going on in the Soviet Union right after it collapsed. And in particular, what she was struck by was even though they had had 70 years of trying to hammer Christian belief out of the Russian people, virtually all of them, very, very few would say that they were atheists.

They virtually all said that they retain their Christianity in private, that they still believe in God. And she wanted to kind of understand what had happened, particularly with the religious persecution of the Russians during Soviet Union. So her vision was to put together a film that showed that aspect of Soviet life and then compare it to what's going on in the US. And she asked me if I would be involved, if I would come and do some talking head stuff at first.

It was a small role. And then we did a big, long interview one day and it expanded. But just trying to connect those dots that she had and she had started to connect to the woke movement and put a lot of depth and color to it was why I wanted to be involved. So we're going to kind of just bounce around here. But I want to encourage people to go to Salem now dot com Salem, which, of course, we're very close with and we do a great job together.

They're terrific. So, James, for the uninitiated in the audience that say, wait a second, hold on, being woke and communism, those are two different things. I mean, woke is about opening your eyes to the lenses of impression.

It's to see the police brutality and the colonialist implications. Communism is like killing fields. What is the connection for someone that is not in the weeds as much as they should between being woke, as Kamala Harris would say, you got to be woke, you got to be woke and communism. In fact, let me tee this up for you.

Play cut seventy five. You know, we have to stay woke like everybody needs to be woke. And you can talk about if you're the wokest or woker, but just a more woke than less woke. You have a Lorene Powell Jobs horrified next to her that she's saying it. Connect the dots.

All right. So what woke that means woke up, right? It means awake.

Well, what did you wake up to? Well, you woke up to that the world is made out of systems of oppression. In other words, it's an oppressor versus oppressed dynamic. Maybe it's economic, rich versus poor or producers versus workers. But maybe it's race. Maybe it's white versus people of color. Maybe it's sex. Maybe it's, you know, normal versus sexually deviant.

Maybe it's male versus female. You could imagine a million different lines of oppressor versus oppressed. Right. So that's woke. We all agree that that's woke. The identity politics is woke. Well, let's just go back to the very first page of the Communist Manifesto, which was written by Karl Marx in 1848.

What did he say? He said that the entire movement of history is the conflict of classes. And he gives a lot of examples, you know, basically like slave owner versus slave and so on. And he says, or in a word, oppressor versus oppressed. So when you see this manipulation of waking up to believing society is organized around oppressor versus oppressed dynamics, and that the oppressed have to wake up and transform society to a new model that's going to be socialist or anti-racist or queer or whatever it happens to be, feminist. You are very likely dealing with something that is in the field of Marxism. And in this case, I've spent the past five years of my career nailing down that the origin point of virtually everything we see in the woke ideology comes straight out of communism, repackaged to attack the soft spots of the West. We are so vulnerable to communism and to woke ism.

The film says it's not coming, but it's here. And in some ways, this election, it properly framed is a is a referendum. On the American genre of communism, is that a fair summation? Yeah, in fact, I've been a little bit glib, I suppose, but I go around and I've been thanking Vice President Harris for putting the national conversation about communism in our faces. The Harris-Waltz ticket is a clearly Marxist ticket. Elon Musk said so controversially on Twitter the other day, and the way they shot back is almost a signature that is communist.

He said, Oh, that's not right. Elon Musk doesn't understand communism. So I mean, that's almost always how they tell you that's exactly what it is. So we can guess that in a few weeks, it'll be of course, it's communist. And here's why it's a good thing. Here's why maybe we do need a little more communism. And so I'm grateful that it's now coming to light. And I think we're about to have this national conversation.

So let me ask you from a framing. If you were advising President Trump, would you say in a debate you need to call her a communist? Do you think the American people are ready for that?

Yes. And he needs to be able to say why it is with the oppressor versus oppressed line from the manifesto. And I don't say this is a hypothetical. I'm thinking of the short pieces of conversation I have with him here or there.

What advice I would give, because it's totally true. My only concern, James, and you would know this better than I would traveling the country because you speak about communism. Do some people just kind of repel when they hear, oh, you know, you're just kind of a right wing blowhard? I don't know.

I think people are seeing things they've never seen before. But it doesn't really matter as much because it's true. She is a communist. She is a Marxist.

That is my patriot supply dot com. Check it out right now. So, James, you have defined in the past queer as being not within the normal. Is that fair to say that that to queer? Can you give the definition of queer in like 20 seconds?

Yeah, that's actually not enough. Queer is by definition, according to David Halperin, who defined it in 1995. Whatever is opposed to the normal, the legitimate and the dominant. So it is actively being opposed to normalcy and legitimacy. So the reason I bring this up is that the entire Democrat campaign has embraced the word weird as a pejorative against J.D. Vance and Donald Trump, positing that there is a normal. And that's very strange coming from a organization or from a political party that doesn't believe that there is an objective normal. Help me understand that. I mean, this is a this is a maneuver by projection.

Right. So it's very clear to everybody who's had their eyes open for the last two years, which means not necessarily much of the Democratic voting base. But the people who have had their eyes open, there's drag queens all over the place. There's kind of chaos raining in our cities. Things are very weird. We're hearing about what's coming across the border. It seems.

Why is this being allowed? That's weird. We hear about all the weird ties that are going out. Weird and weird is their brand.

Right. They've been very weird for a long time. And now they're trying to do a big fat switcheroo and to project that weird concept on to on to Maga and Trump and Vance in particular. They chose as their target and they've tried to do this gigantic psychological operation to get us to believe that they those people are weird.

And so by comparison, obviously, the Democrats are the ones with normal views. And it's a classic communist inversion of reality that we're watching in order to distract from their own weirdness and to try to claim the mantle of normalcy for their new progressive normal. In the art world, they would call this socialist realism. There's actually an entire art movement that happened through Soviet Union in order to depict the movement of the proletariat toward liberation or toward communism. And it was meant to make that look like what the real norm of society is. And it was against the law. As a matter of fact, the Soviet Union used it as its chosen art methodology. It was against the law to depict reality as it was, where people were suffering or something bad was happening.

All the characters had to be transparently two dimensionally good or evil or one dimensionally good or evil. And everything had to be for the glory of building socialism and the process of building the new man. And that's what we're actually watching with this weird is a thrust of socialist realism as a movement in order to propagandize for a, in my opinion, Marxist regime. It's pure projection because based on their own rules, there are no rules and there is no objective normal and that it's OK if a dude is in a thong because he's living authentically, dancing in front of kids. And the whole idea of queering is the war against the legitimate. And so wouldn't being weird also be of a value?

These are the very same people that welcome Dylan Mulvaney into the White House, the same people that allow drag queen story hour. And it is about it's worse than projection. It's pathological.

Yeah, that's right. It's an inversion. Like I said, this is actually an attack on normal. And what people need to understand about queer, queer could be defined also in not Halperin's terms, but my terms, the way I've defined it at times is it's being opposed to limiting principles on principle. So anything that tells them no is not OK. But what they do is these nasty inversions, right? So they'll say, well, why are you so interested in what other people are doing with their sexuality or why are you so interested in children's genitals regarding the mutilation of the trans medicine stuff? All of a sudden, they try to put it on you because what they're admitting is they know that the behavior they're engaging in is actually weird. But they're trying to make you feel weird or you look weird, though, that's for bringing it up. That's so smart is because Tim Walz says, you know, mind your own business, J.D., by the way, what's your vaccination status?

Mind your own business. By the way, if your 14 year old uses a different pronoun, I'm going to kidnap them. Dr. Lindsey, is it fair to say that in Minnesota your kid can be kidnapped from you if you do not subscribe to the trans agenda? I know that certainly the law that got passed in California was on the bill in Washington. And so if Minnesota I'm not up with their legal stature, if the if they have passed that same statute or the mirror image statute, then the answer is absolutely yes. These bills that they're passing in these hardcore blue states, and I remind your listeners that the Communist Party USA was founded in Minnesota, by the way, of all the states that it could have been.

And these these bills are designed to do exactly that, to be able to kidnap kids from parents who don't affirm the new woke ideology, you know, down to the last jot and tittle. James Lindsay is here. Check out SalemNow.com for wolf and sheep's clothing. That is SalemNow.com, SalemNow.com. OK, I want to play cut 79 here. This is Kamala Harris, who is a communist. That's right. Every time you hear her name, you should think communist Harris. Communist Harris.

Play cut 79. Giving resources based on equity, understanding that we fight for equality, but we also need to fight for equity, understanding not everyone starts out at the same place. So there's a big difference between equality and equity. Equality suggests often everybody should get the same thing. Well, that often assumes everybody started out in the same place. As opposed to equity, which is everyone should end up in the same place. And if you then understand not everybody started out in the same place, you understand some people need more. So we all end up in the same place.

James Lindsay, what is going on here? We are watching Kamala Harris, communist Harris, repeat a doctrine from the early 1920s of Soviet Union. I told you recently when we were together at the Believer's Summit that I've been reading Lenin and Stalin for the kind of in depth for the first time.

And it's sort of because of this film that I kind of got involved in wanting to look into that. And it turns out that the one of the second most important program, according to Stalin in 1923, the Soviet Union was to undergo was what we would call DEI. I can't say anything in Russian, so I hope this comes through. I'm going to let my phone pronounce it in Russian to you. I don't know if that came through or not, but yeah, diversity, actual equality and indigenization.

You can actually type those into Google Translate and see the impossible to pronounce words yourself. Diversity is literally just the importation of the Soviet project. Actual equality is what they called equity instead of calling it equity.

And it means exactly what Kamala Harris just said. It meant not just economic equity, but also cultural equity. And then indigenization meant using the various different nationalities and ethnic groups of Soviet Union and bringing them in and showing them that their real expression of citizenship would be through socialism. And so it is if you actually read about what Stalin and Lenin wanted in the early 1920s for that project, which they said was the second most important project for the Soviet Union to undertake, it was it's exactly the diversity, equity and inclusion project that we have happening today. So what you're just hearing Kamala Harris repackaging in modern English, what was a Soviet project considered of highest or second highest priority 100 years ago. So the idea of the goal of communism, they first must eliminate the family, church and or religious life and private property. Let's go one by one.

Which which one? Let's start with the family. How does wokism or communism aim to eliminate or deteriorate the family? Let me clarify real quick first that the reason that they go after family, religion and property so eagerly is because what they're actually after is your soul, which they seek to transform into being communist.

And those are the things that protect it. So your family grounds you and who you are. And so they have to split you away like any other cult would do split you away from your family so that you don't have your indigenous, if you will, to your family identity anymore. And they do that by feeding you doctrines that you are part of the new vanguard of history, frankly, you're moving history forward, and your parents are polluted with old values. This was the smash the four olds campaign in China's Cultural Revolution, for example, they did the same thing in Soviet Union. And what we have today is that you get your kids hopped up, especially on new visions of racial equality, not like the old, the battled racist days and get them hopped up on new visions of gender and sexual identities that their parents won't understand.

And then you drive wedges. And like we talked about with the law in Minnesota, California, Washington, and lots of these other hard Democrat states. What we're actually seeing is that they're taking that now and flipping it around so that the state can intervene and actually remove the child from parental care if they don't affirm what they're being taught at school and being told their parents probably won't like to drive even a deeper wedge. And a very low level, though, even common core math, which nobody in the world understands at all, made it so that parents couldn't do their homework with their kids. So that bonding of mom or dad helping you with your math homework, because it's hard to learn math, that's gone. That's absolutely gone because the parents aren't allowed to use their methods. That's right. Yeah. The whole idea of common core is that there's a new math that your parents can't be involved in.

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That is noblegoldinvestments.com, noblegoldinvestments.com. So the church, you've done a lot of commentary on the church, James. I think you touch on this a little bit in the film. Is that right? And yeah, a lot.

A lot. Good. So the state of the American church is that you said this at our believers summit. They've been subverted.

I know you mentioned this previously. What is the best way then to excommunicate woke communism from the church and from religion? You're right. And what the experiments of the Soviet Union and China taught communists is that, especially even stronger in the Christian West, it doesn't work to try to smash people's religion out of them. The Soviet experiments couldn't do it. Even with the most brutal force like in the Patesky prison in Romania, they couldn't force people out of their faith. It just doesn't work. And so instead, you have to subvert their beliefs. You have to set up a false church that teaches communist doctrine as though it's Christianity. And that means you have a subverted faith.

It's teaching the faith the wrong way. We've seen a million examples of clips. I think there's one going viral again today of some lady doing this. And the fact of the matter is, or maybe it's a guy posing as a lady. I can't tell.

Who knows these days? So what you have to do is you have to be discerning. You have to get very square in your theology, be very discerning. And it's up to pastors who are leading their churches to get very clear on what is required to be biblically grounded in their faith and biblically accurate in their faith. And then it's their responsibility to teach and shepherd their their flocks exactly that way and not to just, you know, kind of have this anything goes Christianity where everything's about kind of a soft affirmation and everybody's, you know, good doing you do you whatever whatever they want to do.

The yeah, this whole idea of like who am I to judge live and let live. So the the current game in front of us is the question of how do you defeat communists in a domestic political sense? You have rules that you've developed for this, James.

What are they and what are the best ways to defeat an overwhelmingly powerful communist political operation? Well, I mean, the first rule is really simple. And it's actually biblical, which is like I just said, you've got to get discerning, you've got to be able to start to pull apart this manipulated language that you understand when they use words like democracy or inclusion that they don't mean what you think when they use words like transform or transformative that your your red flag goes up so that you can start to, you know, clarify or demystify yourself from their misuses of language that they use to reorganize society without people realizing that's the first rule is you have to become informed. And then after you get informed, you have to get involved, you have to get off of the couch, you have to figure out what your talents are, and you have to get started.

But when Jesus in Matthew chapter 10 sends his disciples out, he doesn't send them out just to be discerning. He says that you also have to be gentle. We're up against a very scary beast of a machine. And we can see, for example, very clearly in the UK, which has flipped extraordinarily quickly into totalitarianism, that if you go out without remembering what gentleness looks like in your organizing and in your activities, that it's just going to be used as a pretext to stamp on you and take more power, which of course accelerates this dynamic of society spinning off the rails.

Don't think for a second they don't want that to be here. So we've got to be clear, we've got to be active, and we've got to be smart and in fact gentle in how we go forward, firm but gentle. We can't be pushed over, obviously.

We can't tolerate the intolerable. What is the significance, and I got this from you, it's so simple, of showing not telling when you're fighting a communist? Oh, that's so important. I can sit here and tell you, and maybe many of your listeners are actually going through this right now, I've told you things.

But if I don't show you, that's why I wanted to play the stupid Russian words through my phone that I can't pronounce. Because if I show you, like, look, here's where Stalin said, this is the second most important aspect of the party. Or if I tell you, you know, well, you know, Herbert Marcuse in the 1960s wrote that we're going to have a repressive tolerance or a liberating tolerance regime, which means that we're going to support the left wing and we're going to crush the right wing. You might not believe me, but if I show you that document and show it like there it is right there in print, and here's the significance of this person. Or if I show you the document called Politics of Education, which is a book by Paulo Freire where he says that you're going through becoming woke means going through a literal rebirth and a personal Easter, he calls it and then he has a whole paragraph saying, in fact, the Easter of commemorative rhetoric, in other words, a Christian Easter, Easter is dead, he says with no hope of resurrection, you have to die and be reborn to walk with the oppressed. And then the forward it says, literally that the point of this is to build the kingdom of God here on earth and solidarity with the oppressed.

When I show you that's what the actual document says and tell you the significance of that. It changes everything when you see the drag queen in front of children rather than hearing that maybe it happened. If you see the horror on the child's face, then you can actually understand what's going on. The quote from the queer theorist that says that the goal is to lead children into an emotional crisis and structure the environment around them to resolve it productively.

His name is Kevin Kumashiro. The paper is called Against Repetition. You can go see it with your own eyes for yourself. When you see it, it's actually believable, but until you see it, you think nobody could possibly say or believe that. You must be unburdened by what has been. What is it, James?

How do you say it? We must be able to see what can be unburdened by what has been. I got to get that. I got to get that memorized. This clip together we had at the Believer's Summit has been seen well over 10 million times, James. I don't know if you know that. It's really going viral. I'm sure people are messaging you about it. It's really great.

Play cut 76. President Harris will say repeatedly, what is the quote? The quote is that we can see what can be unburdened by what has been. I can imagine what can be and be unburdened by what has been, you know? What can be unburdened by what has been.

What can be unburdened by what has been. Is that word salad or Marxism? It's Marxism. That is, in fact, not at all word salad. It's a Marxist incantation, as a matter of fact.

It's like a spell. So you can see the possibility of a world that's unburdened from its own history, which is exactly what Mao Zedong did when he launched the campaign of smash the four olds, the four old characteristics of Chinese society. They were going to make a new China that was going to be unburdened by what had been in the past of China. This is what the Soviets, the Bolsheviks did when they took over power in Russia, is that they were going to make the new Russia.

They're going to make the new man. As a matter of fact, people could become unburdened by what had has been so that they could see what could possibly be in the terms of a socialist utopia. So when she says that, I assume, given that her father was a Marxist, I assume she knows what she's saying. And I don't buy her idiot valley speak shtick one bit. I think she's far more smart and far more savvy than conservatives have given her credit for. And she is an outright Marxist. It is very, very clear in her language. And that's what the Democrats want to nominate for president right now, which is kind of horrifying.

James, do you think you fell out of a coconut tree? No, but I think that's a Marxist sentiment, too, right? It's because the whole idea is of Marxism is, as Marx actually said himself in his 18th Bremer of Louis Bonaparte, he said that, you know, men make their own historical conditions, but they don't make them as they please.

They make them according to the historical conditions that are present in the system that they're in. And so he says that the weight of all of the past generations lives or haunts the ways on, I think as it is, ways on the brains of the living like a nightmare. And so you didn't fall out of a coconut tree means you didn't come from nowhere in the time that you're in, you came into a world that was built off of an entire historical tradition, an entire transformation of history. So you have to pick up where you are and go forward. Everything the woman says almost is Marxist.

Yeah, that famous coconut tree she's cackling into the mic says, what do you think you fell out of coconut tree? People exist in the context. Therefore, James, you're not a sovereign individual with your own agency and choices and action, that it's about deconstructing colonialism or getting rid of racism or white supremacy. Can you connect those dots, James?

It's very, very important. Yeah, you are in this historical context that you find yourself in what Marx called your historical conditions. Those historical conditions are the product of the society, and they tend to brainwash people to reproduce them. But it's possible to wake up and to avoid your social production, as it's called.

It's called the theory of social production or theory of social reproduction. You can avoid being dragged through reproducing history generation after generation by awakening to the fact that there's an oppressor-oppressed dynamic, and you are part of that oppressed. So you have an insight into how society is actually not for everybody. It's not fair. It's not socialist.

It denies our social nature or our anti-racist nature or our queer nature. And you can actually get to work. The phrase is do the work, which is the work, the same work that the hammer and sickle were supposed to do in Soviet Russia or in China.

And you can do the work to transform society into a new way of being that will be, you know, some socialist utopia. James, remind the audience how to find the film and then end the call to action, please. Yeah, the film is called Beneath Sheep's Clothing. The website for it is beneathsheepsclothing.movie, all written as one big word.

It's on Watch Salem Now presently as well, so you can go get the films there. I encourage everybody to go see this. I encourage you to not just watch it, but share it on social media, share it with a friend, but also see if you can put together, you know, get some of your left-leaning or Democrat friends to watch this. Because this isn't a question of left versus right. This isn't a question of Republican versus Democrat. This is America versus communism. And we need to wake up as many people as we possibly can. We're hearing from a lot of Democrats and leftists traditionally right now who are saying, wait a minute, communism is not good. Well, they need to have the dots connected.

So show them the film. James Lindsay, thank you so much, SalemNow.com. That was a great discussion. Thanks, man.

Talk to you soon. Thanks, Charlie. Email us freedom at CharlieKirk.com. To repeat, if Kamala Harris, the current vice president, becomes becomes president, it will be the most advanced communism has ever come in the history of our country. Communism is not coming. Communism is here.

She is a communist and communism is on the ballot. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us, as always, freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless.