Instead of Hurting the Body, Heal the Spirit: My Conversation with Frank Turek at the Believers Summit

Hey, everybody. It's time for The Charlie Kirk Show. Frank Turek joins the program live from our Believer's Summit. Become a member today at members.charliekirk.com to listen to all of these episodes, advertiser free. Email me as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast and get involved with Turning Point USA at TPUSA.com.

That is TPUSA.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country.

He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created. Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

That's why we are here. Frank Turek, welcome back. My pleasure, my brother. Thanks for having me on. So, Frank, we are here at the Believer's Summit. You spoke last evening at our Turning Point Action portion of the conference. I said, Frank, what are you doing?

Frank, no pressure. If you want to do something political, you can. But you went all in for President Trump. Yes. And you are an apologist.

Is that fair to say? I'm sorry. No, no. And I'll kind of backtrack for a second. I found you through a series of online videos and also things being run on local television kind of specials. And I reached out. I was like, I got to meet this guy.

And we became friends since. And so talk about your speech last night. Your opinion of this election, how it connects to your other work. Well, two of my five books are on politics. The first book I ever wrote was a book called Legislating Morality, because you always hear you can't legislate morality. Right. It turns out that's all you can legislate. Right. All laws are a legislation of someone's moral point of view.

So the only question is, who is morality? So Dr. Geiser, my mentor, and I wrote that book way back in the 90s. It was like 1998. And so that was the first book I wrote on politics. The second was a book called Correct. It was not politically correct. It was originally titled How Same Sex Marriage Hurts Everyone. And I got fired for that book.

I was doing work for Fortune 500 companies like Cisco and Bank of America. And when they figured out I had written that book, they fired me in the name of inclusion, tolerance and diversity. See, which because inclusion, tolerance and diversity doesn't mean inclusion, tolerance and diversity.

It means if you don't agree with our values, we will hurt you. We will exclude you for holding a diverse view. So two of my five books are on politics.

I'm always interested in politics, and I think Christians need to be involved in politics because our only atheist qualified to run the country. I mean, where do we come up with this idea? It's silly when you think about it. And so I was speaking as a private citizen last night, not as not as a representative of my organization, CrossExamined.org. I was speaking as a private citizen. And I just point out that when you look at the two platforms, they couldn't be more different. And not that the Republican platform is perfect.

It's not. But it is much closer to the most important matters of the law that the Bible talks about, that Jesus talked about when he was talking to the politicians of his day. It's much closer to those issues. And it has the better view on those issues than the Democrat platform.

So you said something I really want to emphasize, which is so important. And unfortunately, far too many Christians and people who are conservative will fall into this trap, which is neutral morality in the public space or neutral morality in the government or educational space, which is I'm not here to tell you how to live your life. Let's just make morally neutral laws. Does such a thing ever exist? No. And that's a moral position right there to say we have to be morally neutral is a moral position. And there is no such thing as moral neutrality. Explain.

Yeah. Well, look, the government can only do one of three things on any issue, but they could prohibit. And that's one of the things that government can do on any issue.

Prohibit, permit or promote. Let's take a very controversial issue that's been it wasn't controversial, you know, 20, 30 years ago, but marriage. OK, years ago, homosexuality was prohibited. In fact, in 1986, a Bowers v. Hartwick was a case that went to the Supreme Court and they upheld state anti-sodomy laws. The court reversed itself in 2003.

Lawrence versus Texas. And they said, no state, you can't say that sodomy is now something that you can prohibit. So it went from prohibit to permit. Once you said, however, that now marriage includes same sex couples, now you've gone from permit to promote.

Now we're promoting the idea that a man and a man or a woman and a woman are the same thing to society as a man and a woman, which is clearly not the case. The reason the government's involved in marriage to begin with is to perpetuate and stabilize society. It's not to recognize the romantic affinity between two people. Why would the government care about romantic affinity? The government cares about whether or not you're going to come together and and stabilize and perpetuate society. The most stable form of government is the biological two parent family.

That's the essence of civilization. Now, if we're going to say that same sex relationships are on par with opposite sex relationships, then what we're essentially saying is that the marriage relationship doesn't matter gender wise. If it doesn't matter gender wise, then marriage has nothing to do with children. And if marriage has nothing to do with children, what institution do we have set up to take care of children? We don't have one anymore.

So just from even a natural law, common sense perspective, equating homosexual relationships and opposite sex relationships makes no sense from a societal standpoint. But that's what we've done. We've gone from prohibit to permit to promote.

There's no neutrality here. Well, and the promotion also comes through state sponsored pride parades. Yes. And through Easter becoming the Transgender Day of Awareness and all that.

You know, Corrine Jean-Pierre lecturing that she's a lesbian or whatever. Right. And so that you're totally right.

I love that. So it's prohibit permit or promote. And I would argue that if you permit it, the government will then end up promoting it.

It's just it just ends up happening by natural momentum. Well, Charlie, you've talked about this before and you'll say it clearer than I will. There's a difference. The government first wants you to tolerate it. You all may get to celebrate. Explain.

Yes. And I want to make sure I get this right. I got it from Matt Walsh. I always try to give attribution, but I use it more than Matt Walsh does. So and for the record, I also got what is a woman from Matt Walsh. But I think I've used it more on campus than he has. I think Matt is really special.

He's he's great. So there's a four part sequence that goes, which is first, they want you to tolerate certain behavior, trans. Let's use the trans thing.

And I want to really dive in on that because you gave a phenomenal sermon at Jack Hibbs Church on a teaching sermon on the trans issue. So first, you must tolerate it. OK. All right. I guess I'll tolerate the trans thing. Then you must accept it.

And you say, wait a second. I thought it was about tolerance. So then they care about your inner belief that you must actually accept it. Then you must celebrate it. So you must walk in the parade and you must. So we went a long way from tolerance because it used to be tolerance. Right.

And that now it is mandatory celebration. But we're not done yet. The last step, which is where we're going, is participation. And you might say, but I'm a heterosexual. How do I participate in such homosexual or transgender stuff via your children?

So your participation is releasing your children to this mafia. So we went from a way of you're a bad person because you don't tolerate the trans zealotry to now in California. It's a perfect example. And I'm so glad President Trump said this in a speech. Yes, this is a winning issue, winning issue. And it is a life issue. Make no mistake. This is a life issue. And it is in California.

We went from in the 1980s. You must tolerate the trans thing or the homosexual thing. Where now there is a law where a teacher is forbidden by law to notify the parent if a 12 or 13 year old is trans. The teacher is not allowed to. It's the opposite of the law we want. The law is that the parent should have to. Now the parent, the teacher, by law, if the teacher calls up the parent and says, hey, Susie is on hormone blockers and he's she's going by Steve against the law. So that is participation via children because they cannot reproduce. So they must recruit. Isn't it interesting that the state of California now automatically thinks that parents are guilty of abuse?

That's correct. In other words, parents are automatically suspect. It's not innocent till proven guilty. If we found one instance of an abusive parent to a so-called trans child. All parents are guilty. And the state now becomes the parent. Do you see where this is going? And you know why it's happened? Because the church has been silent. That's why we're the problem.

I I know it's going to sound odd. I'm with you. I don't really blame the people that have a different world view because they think what they're doing is right and true. It's us that haven't been engaged enough. Look, I've been doing this for almost over 30 years now. And I have yet to find a person like Charlie Kirk, somebody who is a an outspoken evangelical Christian who realizes the importance.

Because if we give up the political landscape, we're not loving people. He realizes the importance of that. And now he's organized enough people that we can actually make a difference here. So this is so important what you've been doing. Charlie's only 30 years old.

I'm going to retire soon. I mean, think about this. Where have where have the other Charlie Kirks been over the years? I haven't been able to find enough people who are Christians, outspoken evangelical Christians who can make an argument, who can also make an argument on the political side until him. Who else is there? I mean, there are a few, but you're organized. Thank you. Yeah, that's very it's very sweet. And coming from you, Frank, that means a lot. But there's some great voices out there.

The the one thing I will say that makes us different is that we are also doers, not just communicators. And because we're starting chapters, we're have Turning Point Academy, we have ballot chasers, we have the hardest part of my job. Speaking is easy for me. The radio show is relatively easy. The hardest part of my job is keeping 500 people on staff, you know, raising money for that, getting them to do constructive things.

That's very difficult. But I think that's the most rewarding part, because there always will be commentators and gifted speakers. Right. But the doing aspect, putting on events like this, which I think are very important.

So that's very, very nice of you to say. No, it's true, though. I mean, who else do you know who's doing this? Who do you know who is actually not just is a good speaker, but is organizing people to follow the logic of what he's saying?

I don't I don't see that out there. And it is the Lord. And he deserves all the credit because he's blessed this organization.

So amazing. Let me let me say another thing about this. This the trans issue, because I think it's it's so very confusing to people.

And let me just say a couple of things on it. First of all, on one hand, the trans community or the people who support this, try and say that there are an infinite number of genders. Right. And there's, of course, a dispute. What is sex? What is gender?

The two of us texted about. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But on one hand, they're trying to say is an infinite number. But on the other hand, logically, for their movement to even be possible, there can only be two.

Why? Because if I'm a man and I think I'm a woman, I have a psychological mismatch between my psychology and my biology. I have to have some idea what a man is and some idea what a woman is to know I have this psychological mismatch. If there were no fixed genders, I couldn't even have gender dysphoria. Secondly, in order for me to make the so-called transition, which, as we all know, is physically impossible, you can't change your biology.

You can change your mind, but you can't change your biology. But if I try and make that transition, I again have to have some idea what a man is and some idea what a woman is to even try to transition. So on one hand, they're trying to say, no, there's no fixed genders. On the other hand, transgenderism and transgender ideology would be completely impossible if there weren't fixed genders. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, there's a bit of a civil war within the so-called LGBT community. It's not really a community because if the T's get their way, the L's, the G's and the B's don't exist. Because how can you be lesbian, gay or bisexual, even heterosexual, unless there are fixed genders?

It would be impossible. So the whole thing is built on an illogical house of cards. And we just need to point that out.

And the way to point it out is actually what Matt Walsh does is he asks a question. What is a woman? And I've taken that from him. It's it's so much.

Again, I my dream and I hope it happens is that President Trump asks Kamala Harris what is a woman. And I just I have. And what? Well, here's someone who could actually advise him to do that. I know.

I just. And it seems so obvious, but she would lose 10 percent of the Democrat base no matter how she answers. The I'm going I'm going to the DNC in Chicago.

I'm going to go ask every single delegate I can that question. Hey, Charlie's going so you don't have to. That's right. And so when you guys are members, members that Charlie Kirk dot com, you send me into the mission fields. Right.

I'm from Chicago. I can't wait. It's gonna be mostly peaceful. So mostly peaceful. That's the riot. Yeah, exactly.

The whole city will be burning, reporting live from the DNC or hometown doing us proud here. So I want to zero in on this trans things. I think it's so important.

The of all the issues I see the trans issue as a major winner for us, as far as opening people's eyes to the sequence of how this degeneracy devolves into family destruction, childhood destruction. And California is the worst of all the offenders currently. But Oregon has taxpayer funded gender mutilation surgery, for example, for minors. For minors. Just so we're clear against parental consent and parental advisement.

Oregon and Washington are similar. This is a very important thing, which is identity. And this is where I don't win a lot of friends over even in the conservative world. But I think it's very important, which is I respectfully will push back when people say I am part of my identity is that I am lesbian or my identity is that I am gay. And so my argument is that you might be well intended when you say that or even accept that. But we got trans because we were able we accepted a false premise when it came to lesbian and the gay issue.

And so let me just explain it shortly. If you accept that your identity is in your private sexual behavior and that is your identity, then don't be shocked. All of a sudden when someone says, well, my identity is then in me being a boy when I'm a girl or a girl when I'm a boy.

When you're right, your identity is much bigger than just what you are attracted to sexually. It's actually there's only two identities saved and unsaved. Those are the only identities that actually matter. Right.

All the other identities are rather. And then I would say male and female are pretty important because God cares about those distinctions as well. Do you agree with that, Frank? Yeah, I do. In fact, I don't buy into the premise that because you have a particular attraction that the action that flows from that is something good and right. I told it was not just good and right. But is that that's who you are. Yeah. I mean, for example, we do not have people walk around this conference saying that, you know, I'm I'm an adulterer.

And you accept me. Right. That's kind of weird. Right. Well, you know, the kind of the phrase ology out there, even among the progressive so-called Christians, they're not really Christians because if you're progressive, you're not you're not actually moving closer to the truth.

You're moving further away. And if you're disagreeing with Jesus, you're not a Christian. But in any event, when they say that I want to live my authentic self, what we should be saying is I need to be saved from my authentic self because my authentic self is evil. And by the way, I can I can prove this to you right now that your authentic self is evil and so is mine.

Let me ask you a question. Let's suppose you were you woke up this morning in here in the hotel. And when you went into the bathroom to get ready, you looked in the mirror and there was a sign attached to your head that transmitted every single thought you had. You couldn't turn the sign off. You couldn't cover it. No matter where you went today, everyone could read every single thought you had. Would you be sitting here right now if that sign was on your head?

No. Why? Because your thoughts are evil. And so are mine. We judge people in the first four seconds. We meet them. We're not thinking happy, great thoughts. We're thinking all sorts of different things.

And by the way, no extra charge for this. This is why you can't remember names when you meet somebody. Because you're not thinking of the name.

You're going, hey, how you doing? That is the ugliest shirt I've ever seen. Right? Hey, where'd you get that haircut?

Wal-Mart? You know, you're not thinking of good, happy thoughts, positive thoughts. Your your thoughts and my thoughts are depraved. It's easy to be bad. It's hard to be good. If I were to follow my authentic self, first of all, I would have been dead years ago. You can't follow your heart. You need to guard your heart. Now, with all due respect to President Trump, he has to stop using this follow the heart stuff. OK, follow the heart is not biblical. The Bible says guard your heart because everything you do flows from it. We need to guard our hearts, not follow our hearts unless they align with the scriptures. So, yeah, and the New Age pagan philosophy is around the sort of trappings and it's tied to the trans movement. You follow your authentic self, you know, go and be who you already are.

You're perfect the way you are. These are New Age pagan. You are enough.

Yeah, you are enough, which is just what I don't even know what that means. And the Christian world has embraced so many of these things. Where the word that the heart one is a perfect example. And President Trump aside, I hear pastors say this, where they'll say, you know, you got to follow your heart or whatever your heart wants you to do.

Or, you know, love is love. Can you feel it now? Something even bigger is coming. Your God-given freedoms are up for the taking. Even worse, those doing the taking are the same people who've sworn to defend your freedom. They think they can violate your right to protect your own family. They think they can force their delusions onto your kids. They think they can control the media and hide the truth. But you know what they can't take away?

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That is mypatriotsupply.com. The whole LGBT, by the way, it's LGBTQI2A+. What is it, Daisy, right? It's very long now, right?

We have the new one. It's really something, which is not insignificant, by the way, because they are, quote, unquote, progressives. They do not have a moral center or they do not have something to anchor them. So that acronym will never stop. That's a very important thing is that they must always continue the devolve, the devolving descent into darkness or into hell.

And they're not even close to getting to. Does that make sense? Well, think about this as well. If you put your identity in, say, your sexual preference, say, what happens when you are no longer sexually preferred or you can no longer sexually perform? You no longer have an identity? Or if you put your identity even in a job, in a vocation, what happens when you lose your job? You no longer have an identity? Or you put your identity in another person?

What happens when, God forbid, that person dies or leaves you? You no longer have an identity? Your identity, if you put your identity in these things, it's very fragile.

It's very temporary. This is why people lose sometimes their lives because they lose all hope when what they thought was the ultimate identity vanishes. The only identity that's eternal is for you to become a child of God.

This is why the biographer of Jesus, we call him John, wrote a gospel which is really a biography, says in the first chapter he's given you the right to become a child of God by trusting in what Christ has done. That is your identity. That's an eternal identity you can't lose. But all these temporary identities, our authentic self, our authentic self, the God of the universe had to come into this world and take torture upon himself in order to cure us of our authentic selves. And we want to follow our authentic selves.

No, don't save me from my authentic self. So the trans issue, you talked about this at Jack Kibbs Church. Can you go through the list of items of how we should approach this? It was like a five-point list.

I actually think I wrote it down on my phone. Okay. Yeah, I think we ought to ask questions rather than make statements on this issue, because as soon as you start asking questions, people can't answer them.

Questions like, what is a woman? In fact, let's take it from, suppose your teenager comes to you and says, Mom, Dad, I'm trans. Do not freak out. That's rule number one. That's Dr. Grossman's rule. Right. Yeah. Because if you freak out, what's the kid going to do?

I'm never coming to mom or dad again. Can I interject just for a second? Yeah, please do. Dr. Grossman wrote the best book on this, by the way, Dr. Miriam Grossman, which is called Lost in Trans Nation. She is this amazing, conservative, orthodox, strong-headed Jewish woman from New York. And she's the best.

Like, you do not want to tick off a Jewish, orthodox, doctor, Jewish woman. And she just, she's on a crusade to destroy the childhood trans industry. And she, because she's an actual clinician. She's not someone that just deals in the abstractions. She's in the patient room dealing with kids with gender dysphoria. And she says the whole thing is a scam.

It's all fake. Like, only one out of a thousand of these kids actually have what they say they have. It's a social contagion. But it's very important. Parents must understand this.

That first conversation will direct the kid either going further down medical interventions or not. And you must be very curious and be like, oh, really? Where'd you learn this? Exactly.

You have to learn more about this, not how could you, how dare you. They will only double or triple down and they will never talk to you again. That's right. That's right. And that's true for any issue. Sorry to interject. No, that's true for any issue.

That's great wisdom from the doctor there. So don't freak out. And then the first question, or you might say, well, thank you for telling me. Can we talk about it a little bit? Yeah, go ahead.

What do you mean by trans? See if they can even define it, right? What do you mean? And then just be quiet. Then number two, you might say, what happened that made you feel this way?

What happened that made you feel this way? Now, if it's true gender dysphoria, not just the social contagion that Charlie just mentioned, they will probably point to an event. In fact, Walt Heyer, who lived as a trans woman, so to speak, for about eight years. By the way, Charlie, you have a great way of clearing up what a trans woman and trans man is.

You use a word in front of it. Go ahead. It's very fake. So I figured this out. If it says trans woman, it's fake woman, trans man, fake man.

You got it? I was confused. I couldn't figure out which one was which.

I was like, oh, my goodness, it's so easy. OK, so trans woman is a man and trans man is a woman. You got it? Just put fake in front of it. So every time he's here, trans is just fake. So I learned that from him. Thank you. OK. I cleared it all up for me. That's right. OK. All right.

So where was where were we? I lost my train of that's important because I wasn't sure. Are they saying that it's a it's a biological person who is trans?

I think I sorted it all out. Oh, it's Walt Heyer who lived as a trans woman. So a fake woman for eight years, became a Christian.

Then he started sex change regret dot com. Great ministry. In fact, the new president of Turning Point USA faith. Yeah, I think we're working with Lucas Miles. Yes. Yes. He has an affiliation with Walt Heyer.

I think we're taking on that project. Are you? OK, good. Anyway, Walt's a great guy. And he said he's interviewed hundreds or thousands of people that have come to him for help. And he says in every single instance when he asked the question, what made you feel this way?

They always point to an event. You know what a good definition of trauma is? A good definition of trauma is when your worldview is shattered. Like, for example, you thought your stepfather was a good guy until he molested you. That's trauma.

Right. Your worldview is shattered. And so people who have this true gender dysphoria will point to an event like that. And as Walt Heyer says, you can understand the psychology of this. Say a young boy is molested. What does he want to do? He wants to get rid of the organ that was the object of the molestation. So he wants to transition. So you can understand the psychology of it, perhaps.

Go ahead. This is important. So this is why young ladies are 80 percent of. Pediatric gender mutilation because they have puberty anxiety, so they want to get rid of the organ that is giving them anxiety. Trans issues when it comes to young women is almost all on addressed puberty anxiety.

It's literally that simple with. And this is very important. And I'm sorry to keep interrupting you.

It's good. It's that there is almost never been a case in Dr. Miriam Grossman's experience. Dr. Jordan Peterson's research of all people. There's always never been a case of somebody that is, quote unquote, trans that does not have underlying bipolar issues.

Schizophrenic issues, depression, generalized anxiety disorder. And so the trans issue, it would be like this if I'm a clinician, which, again, none of this is medicine. We have thrown out all the rules of medicine and we've brought in witchcraft.

Not a joke. This is witchcraft and this is voodoo stuff. This is not all the laws of all the principles of Western medicine been thrown out. So, for example, if I'm a clinician and somebody comes to me and they say I have a fever.

It tells me nothing. A fever is a symptom. There's no sickness called fever.

OK, you go look through the medical journal of Western medicine. There are six hundred and fifty five different things that could cause a fever. COVID could cause a fever. A burst appendix could cause a fever. OK, food poisoning can cause a fever. The flu can cause a fever. So you say how about can cause a fever? I got it.

I got a fever. Exactly. Exactly. And so so what a clinician needs to do then is say, OK, what is causing the fever? So instead, we have these kids coming in with a quote unquote fever trans issue. You say, oh, got it.

Let's go give you let's go give you drugs and surgery. When in reality, there's something causing their gender dysphoria and we're not even going to the underlying cause. Said differently, the trans issue and Frank, you said it really well, is a brain issue that we then address as a body issue. So instead of hurting the body, maybe we should heal the brain.

That's right. You know, a perfect analog, as Dr. Paul McHugh at John Hopkins, the psychiatrist, said, transgenderism has an analog, a perfect analog known as anorexia. If someone is an anorexic, you would never go to them and say, you know, you're right.

Let me give you a liposuction. You would say, honey, your mind is playing tricks on you. You need nutrition. In other words, you would treat the medical condition as a delusion. It's a mental issue.

It's not a physical issue. They need to fix their mind. Well, the same thing is true when it comes to transgenderism. They have a mental delusion and the mind needs to change.

It's not the body that needs to change. I mean, look, if your daughter came to you and said, Mom, Dad, I'm a mermaid. Would you take her off the coast and drop her in the ocean?

You know, of course you wouldn't. You would say, honey, your mind is playing tricks on you. We need to get you psychiatry. We need to get you counseling. We need to get you prayer. We need to get you healing of your mind. Yet when it comes to sex, somehow we lose our minds and we say, oh, no, yeah, we can change your body. You can't change your body.

No. And the secondary point to this. How did we get here? Number one, the way that we started to do education was a pupil driven model of education, not a teacher driven model of education where. And I lived through this where the teacher all of a sudden believes that the students are correct and the students must lead the educational environment. And you hear it all the time, which is, well, you never know the wisdom of fourth grade yet like fourth grade is really dumb, actually. There's not a lot of wisdom at all. And you should be teaching them. You shouldn't be like learning from fourth graders.

How do you get to such a view? And now all of a sudden this is going to complete the circle for you. You get to such a view if you believe human beings are basically good. Mm hmm.

Hear me out. We as Christians believe human beings are depraved. Original sin. So if you believe human beings are basically good as Jean-Jacques Rousseau would. So he preferred the infant over the adult and the primitive over the civilized. Then the younger you are, the more innocent you are. And therefore, the more correct you are because you haven't been polluted or contaminated by this evil and terrible society. Let me stop right here. Let me just interject.

How is the society evil if everybody's inherently good? That's right. Do you see the problem here? They want to have it both ways.

Sorry. Well, no, they say that because everyone's good. But we have been poisoned by capitalism and poisoned by colonialism. Right. But who brought us that? Human beings.

Yes. That's correct. And they if they're right, but they're not right. Of course, they're not right. But when you examine them, this is why it's so easy to debunk these nimwits is that they say, well, the indigenous people before colonialism. Oh, yeah, that's right. Native Americans never killed each other.

Totally. And by the way, just so we're clear, a recent archaeological discovery in southwestern New Mexico shows the greatest percentage of a genocide in the history of recorded people, where it was like one fourth of all living people were killed of two warring tribes that went to war with each other like a thousand years before the Europeans ever came to North America. Let me just kind of complete the point, which is if you believe human beings are basically good. Therefore, you think that children are the ones that have the wisdom and we are the ones that are at fault.

So then you extrapolate that to the trans issue. The 12 year old must be right because they haven't been as contaminated by Western society as we have. The biblical idea that human beings are basically awful is what built a free society. The New Age idea that human beings are basically good is what's destroying our society. And this is why people think socialism can work, because they think that people are inherently good.

No, we're not. You know, these people think that people are going to work as much as they can and take only what they need. The truth of the matter is people are going to work as little as they can and take as much as they want.

That's why none of these programs that assume human beings are inherently good work because they're going against reality. But let's go back to the trans issue for a second, please. So you're talking to your child again after we've gone on all these tangents here. We're back to your your child.

Charlie and Frank. You guys like it, though, right? It's a lot of fun. So you don't freak out. How did this happen? What made you feel this way? They'll always point to an event. And then you might ask them, do feelings always tell you the truth?

Of course they don't. Secondly, do feelings ever change? Honey, two months ago you were not trans and now you are. Do you think your feelings might change again? Then you can ask. Have you ever considered that 80 percent of people like you who have this gender dysphoria grow out of it by the time they're 18?

And 96 percent grow out of it by the time they're 26. And you might also ask, have you looked in to the consequences of trying to transition? I can almost guarantee you they haven't. Do you know there is no known protocol for sex change operation? Because it's impossible. You can't do it.

This is why someone like Chloe Cole is suing her doctor or doctors, because they did, in her opinion, Nazi-like experiments on her. You cannot transition to another sex. It's impossible. By the way, let's go to apologetics on Christianity for a second. If someone ever asks you, do you have any evidence that God exists, you ought to say to them, do you have any evidence that gender exists? Or that sex exists? If they say no to sex, I say I can't help you with the God issue. If you can't look in the mirror and see what's staring at you in the mirror and you won't acknowledge that, how am I going to convince you that there's an invisible being who created and sustains the universe?

You won't even believe what's in front of your eyes. Perfectly said. And on the mutilation issue that puberty is not the problem. Puberty is the solution.

And I get it. We almost every woman in this room would say that at some point they felt uncomfortable in their body during a period of puberty. Right. But now we give young ladies surgery when they feel uncomfortable with their body in puberty and it is irreversible damage. Right.

And I believe this. And I think that we from a political standpoint, if I may, we as Republicans are not playing offense enough with this issue during this election year. I think this is a 90 10 issue, even with Democrats. I think that only the most puritanical left wing zealots are in favor of this. And so, for example, in Illinois, they're one of the worst states when it comes to this.

That's the DNC is going to be in Chicago. We should just be nonstop be talking about how children are being experimented upon and castrated. And I mean, you know, you agree, Frank, but I want you to give some theological context. This this is demonic and Satan was unable to kill them in the womb.

So he wants to castrate them when they're teenagers. Has God said that's the first lie, right? Has God said. Has God said there are men and women? Has he made men and women? By the way, our mutual friend Seth Dillon of the Babylon Bee, his folks at the Babylon Bee put together a wonderful little YouTube video called Woke Jesus.

Have you seen it? Excellent. You need to go watch Woke Jesus because humor makes the point better than Charlie and I just giving you didactic teaching on it. You know, they Jesus is in there saying, yes, God made trans man and God made all sorts of these different gender dysphoric names. Jesus at one point goes, sure, whatever you want.

Yeah, whatever you want. God made. No, he didn't. It's a lie. You don't help people by lying to them. And that's what silent pastors are doing, by the way.

So they're allowing the culture to overwhelm their congregants and they're not correcting the misinformation. Did you know that since 1980, China and India's fossil fuel use has soared 600 percent and 700 percent respectively? During that time, China's life expectancy shot up 14 years and India soared by 17 years. Seems a far cry from AOC's alarmist message that if we do not adopt her extremist policies and ideas, life would end.

Incomes would crater and the world would end in 12 years. Famines have been wiped out because we can move food quickly and efficiently because American energy saves lives. And in America, we produce that energy more cleanly than anywhere else on Earth.

I'm Charlie Kirk here. I want you to know the facts when you're debating your liberal relatives or friends. So listen carefully. Go to oil facts dot com and get educated today on these critical facts. The need for American energy and what we can do to keep billions more from catastrophic deaths from happening. These facts are irrefutable. Go to oil facts dot com. That is oil facts dot com.

These facts are brought to you by the Prairie Operating Group, dedicated to safe and responsible production of American energy. Why are so many pastors silent on, at the very least, the child trans issue? Look, you always hear about tax exemption. Ladies and gentlemen, we're not called to be tax exempt.

We're called to be salt and light. OK, you know, and it has nothing to do with you. No one's going to lose their tax exempt status on that issue. Yeah, I know.

I know. How can if you can't speak out against child mutilation, you can't speak out against anything. And notice, by the way, was child mutilation a political issue 10 years ago? No, now it is.

Are we going to say, well, we can't talk about that because it's political? In fact, I'm tired of politicians. I'm sorry. I'm tired of pastors. Yes. I'm sorry.

Let me stop. I love pastors. OK, because pastors have the second hardest job in American Christianity. The hardest job is pastor's wife. But but the second hardest job is being a pastor. You're expected to do everything and everything. Well, I get all that. OK, very difficult.

It's a very difficult job. But I'm tired of pastors saying I'm this isn't political. This is biblical. As if Christians ought to stay out of politics. Where do we come up with this?

I mean, Charlie mentioned this last night. Who started the country? Christians. We wouldn't even have America if Christians hadn't got involved in politics.

Why do we cede politics to unbelievers? We shouldn't. So we need to correct.

It reminds me that famous C.S. Lewis quote who said, Good philosophy must exist if for no other reason to correct bad philosophy. That's right. And so we need to get out there and protect people from evil. That's what we're supposed to be. We're shepherds. We're supposed to protect the sheep. And we don't when we don't speak up on these issues.

Can I go back to one other issue? You mentioned we got to talk about Israel for just a second. You mentioned about the genocide that the Native American Indians apparently committed through archaeology.

We discovered this. Isn't it interesting that here in America, the people that were the indigenous people are seen as having a right to the land. We, the white men, we're colonialists. But when you go over to Israel, they flip it. The leftists flip it. The people that really had the land are now the colonialists. And the new folks who never had a state because Palestine was never a state are somehow righteous.

How does how do they flip? Well, look, if liberals didn't have double standards, they'd have no. Well, it's important. Yeah, that's exactly right. And they flip it because Israel and America are built on the Bible. And Israel is an outpost of Western society in a sea of totalitarianism. And they hate that because Israel has borders and Israel has a belief in the divine.

So Israel must be destroyed at all at all costs. And I mean, Israel has plenty of problems. I'm not an apologist for the Israeli government, but this is what's very important. You can tell immediately you ask somebody, forget the Israeli government. Are you OK with the idea of Israel?

And they're not. They're not OK with an idea of one single Jewish state that exists in the land of Canaan, which is Judea and Samaria. They're not OK with that for the reason being is that they look at Israel being a colonialist project.

And by colonialism, that's their coded way of saying anything that is an outgrowth of Christianity or Judeo-Christian values. Isn't it amazing that there were people who will smear like Donald Trump as Hitler when these very same people are supporting literally the new Nazi party? I mean, these people want Jews dead. Isn't it amazing the double standard here? They will call someone who's not Hitler Hitler while they themselves are supporting people who are carrying on Nazi ideology.

Literally, they are murdering people. So, Frank, I want to get a couple of questions here because we have five minutes, but it's cross-examined. Cross-examined. If you ask a question, it has to be literally short because this is on a podcast and I'm going to repeat it. So, yes, ma'am. First, Emily, thank you for being a member and for that. She's been studying mental health for quite some time and there is a code of conduct that she must follow. As a Christian conservative, should you go into that space or not go into that space?

Difficult question to answer. Yeah, we have a mic too for the other questions. Great. Frank, if you have a strong opinion that you can interject, the issue is that they have changed the DSM-5 so significantly that you will be forced to do things against your conscience.

You will. Now, if you are able to find religious – it depends on the state too. You are not allowed in California as a mental health professional to give therapy to trans youth that tells them anything other than affirmation.

It is against the law. You must affirm. Now, I hope you understand how insane this is. So, we must affirm people's mental illness. So, if somebody is suicidal, you should affirm their suicide?

The answer is yes. They do not believe in treatment. They don't believe in healing. Gender affirming care, at its core, is evil. It should be treatment, not affirmation.

And so, it's a difficult answer. It depends on the state. If you go to Texas or here in Florida, I bet you have more freedom to be able to practice. But understand, the national boards themselves are completely captured. The American Pediatric Association, the American Medical Association. Do you know that the University of Minnesota, they have changed their swearing-in oath?

Again, how this is not national news shows how corrupt our media is. Where, you know, the Hippocratic Oath is typically, I will do no harm, so on and so forth. It is now, I will protect indigenous peoples. I will do everything I can to crush white supremacy.

These are people wearing white coats at the swearing-in ceremony at University of Minnesota. If you don't believe me, look it up. The future doctors and future medical professionals are taking an oath to crush white supremacy and to elevate BLM and trans zealotry in their industry.

Do you have a thought on this? Well, I have that in the book, correct? Not politically correct.

The new edition of it is about transgenderism and same-sex marriage. And Charlie's saying it exactly right. Now, they're taking an oath, actually, to commit to indigenous healing practices. That's correct. So, you might go to a doctor thinking he's practicing the scientific method, but he's really going to do a chant over you.

And put some spices on you. Yeah. I'm not kidding. So, this is what's important. Remember that the Western medical tradition is being destroyed by wokeism, where they think, oh, well, Native American healing practices are the same as antibiotics.

Not a joke. Because who's to say? Science is a creation of the white man.

You could see how the downfall of society happens here. And that's what they want. By the way, do you see the… Oh, sorry. Let's go on to another question. We've got time. Go ahead. I could go on forever. Yes, sir.

Right there. Hi. My name is Patrick. So, I grew up in a highly politically involved conservative Christian household. And I watched as the emphasis on political ideology and politics and apologetics as well took over my dad's heart and ultimately made him bitter and cynical.

And it destroyed my family. So, now, today, I'm a confessing Christian, the Lord saved me a few years ago. And… Now, glory to God. And I actually just started a job with you.

I work for Turning Point Action. So, I had a prayer a year ago that the Lord would save me from ever becoming a political, hypocritical Christian, but to be a true confessing Christian with the heart of Christ. Now, here I am, somewhat involved in politics and intending to grow more deeply involved.

Do you have any advice or recommendations to guard my heart and to not become what I see hypocritical and religious on the right? That's great. Yeah, that is a fabulous question.

And I think… I love that. I think one thing we need to say is that just because some people can go to an extreme doesn't mean people can't get involved politically properly. In other words, you don't judge a philosophy by its abuse.

You judge it by its proper use. So, yes, Christians should be involved politically, but like anything, we can go too far in any one of a number of areas of life. So, I think maybe if you get some personal accountability with people and you have a good prayer life and you ensure that politics isn't at the top of your priority list, it's somewhere in there. At the top of our priority list should always be Jesus, should always be knowing God and making him known. But as Charlie has said so well, in fact, he'll say it better than I will right now. I tried to make that point last night that politics affects our ability to preach the gospel, but you put it in a succincter way. Go ahead. Make that point.

I don't remember exactly what I said. When you say the most important thing to do and then the second most important… Yeah, that's correct. So, the most important thing is winning people over for Jesus.

The second most important thing is making sure you can do the first thing. See, that's why politics is important. As I said last night, the most important thing is not who you pick in the election. It's who you pick as your Lord and Savior. As your Lord and Savior. But the ability to hear and preach and live the message is important as well and that's where politics comes in.

So, in order to guard your heart, God gives us an instruction manual and it's the Decalogue. So, have no other gods before me. Politics should not be more important than Jesus. Your Trump flag should not be more important than going to church, right?

And I say this as someone who's awfully political, right guys? I believe though that we as Christians have failed on two of the Ten Commandments more so than we would like to recognize. One of which is honoring the Sabbath. As you guys know, I'm a big Sabbath fan.

I'm going to talk about that in a second. The second of which is that even though your father has become bitter, you are commanded to still honor him. And to honor him means you must take that seriously. And so, don't disconnect from your father. Call him every week. Take him out for lunch. You will be better because of it and his life will be better because of it.

Because you're saved and maybe you can make him less bitter and more sweet. So, honor your mother and father so that you may live long in the land of which you are in. Only one of the Ten Commandments with a promise and involves your nation. But the Sabbath is very important. If it wasn't this event, almost every Saturday, with a couple exceptions, from Friday night to Sunday morning, I turn off my phone and there is no work. This is a great way, I believe God gave it to us for many reasons, to guard against false gods.

For six days you shall work. For the seventh day you shall rest. The Sabbath, which literally means stop in Hebrew, Shabbat, which means to cease all activity, I believe has been the greatest, the least observed of the Ten Commandments of the American Church for the last 30 years. Would you guys agree with that?

I would say that, and I'm not here as a moralist or as a legalist, you guys know how I'm approaching this. But if God repeatedly wants us to stop activity, which remember, the Sabbath is the longest standing celebration and ordination of time, celebrating what? God creating the heavens and the earth. Do every week we take time and say, God, thank you for creation?

You're going back to Genesis 1-1 every week. Number two, it's easier to honor your parents, easier to have a strong family, easier to not covet, easier to not steal, easier to not murder, easier not to commit adultery when you're completely stopping all activity. It makes all the other commandments easier. And finally and most importantly, as we hyper rush into modernity right now with phones and television and social media, what a great biblical way to reset our soul and our being every week and disconnect from all of that chatter. So that's a discipline. So I'm a big believer that you become what you do, and what you do needs to be biblical disciplines that don't take thought after periods of time, but they are good for you, such as honoring the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath, calling your parents and honoring them, but also reading your Bible every single day, getting around a community that really cherishes you. You are an average of the five people you spend the most time with. So a good homework assignment is write those five people down. That's who you become.

And if they're gossipy and if they are not Christian or secular, you become that. And the inverse is also true. So that's my comment on that. We got two more questions, yeah. We'll go to Blexit Hat Man, my man here.

That's you, you're wearing a Blexit Hat. All right. So Charlie, my question is more about like the Bible itself. So as a Cuban immigrant, often the words of the Bible were misconstrued by like the Castro regime. And we see that today more than ever, like verses are being taken off the Bible by like China. And a lot of Bibles are being distributed with certain sections that, you know, are supposed to be there. So my question is mostly like what version of the Bible do you recommend us to read?

And how can we, you know, combat this ongoing attack on Christianity? Yeah, I'm an ESV guy. I don't know if you agree. I'm the NIV guy, the nearly inspired version. Yeah.

Okay. Look, most versions are okay. There are some that are not like the Passion version. Or the Message. The New World Translation.

Yeah, they're, you know, they're. But most Bibles are okay. The bigger issue is we need to realize there are no verses in the Bible.

What do I mean by that? Let's say Matthew was writing his Gospel. Do you think he said, here's chapter five, verse one? No.

No. The chapter and verse divisions were added about 500 years ago to help us navigate the text. Which is really important because it'd be hard to find your way around this big series of documents we call a Bible if you didn't have numbers in it.

Right? I mean, imagine if some pastor, your pastor got up one Sunday morning with this huge book, didn't have numbers. He didn't have numbers in his book.

You didn't have numbers in your book. And he just looked at you and he said, let's go about two-thirds of the way in. Let's see if we can find the same spot. Right? No, you couldn't do that.

Right? You couldn't find your way around. The problem is we tend to think if it's got a number in front of it, we can take it out and make it say whatever we want. We can't. That's why like the judge not thing is so stupid. People just stop there. Jesus didn't say judge not and stop right there.

That would be self-defeating. It's a judgment itself. He said judge not lest you be judged by the same standard you judge others, you'll be judged by that standard. So before you try and take the speck out of your brother's eye, you hypocrite, which is a judgment, you notice that, you hypocrite.

Take the log out of your own eye first, then you'd be better able to help your brother. So this is not a command not to judge. It's a command on how to judge. Don't judge hypocritically.

If you've got that problem, fix it, then go help your brother. So don't take one verse out of context. Try and figure out what it means, which means you have to read around it. That's the biggest problem in Christianity right now when it comes to Bible interpretation. People just yanking stuff out of context. We'll do one more on this side of the room.

I want to make sure both sides are given treatment. And then who do we have at 1115? Oh, we have Cliff. That's amazing. Yeah. So you guys are in for a show. Hello.

My name is Morgan. I work for a church here in Florida. And so part of the question is I see younger men like Charlie's age that are very involved with politics, but getting them to step into the church like that 25 to 35 age group is it seems impossible to draw them in.

Do you have advice in that field? How do we as the church do better pulling in the working class men? Yeah. Love it. Yes. The I say this not directed towards you because but the church has to stop being so feminine.

I hope you receive that. Yes. But the church is so feminine.

OK. In its presentation from how the male pastors dress from how they do their sermons. And it's a very big issue. Men do not feel represented, listen to or part of the modern American church. It's very focused on like book clubs and social hour. That's not how men are wired at all. There are very effective men's ministries, as Frank knows, across the country.

I do a good job of this, but I could tell you the churches that are expanding very quickly. Working class men, I think of Jack Hibbs. Right.

Is that Alan Jackson? Alan Jackson here that what men want when they go to church is very different than what women want. Women typically do not respond very well to a gospel that says you're a terrible sinner. Get your act together.

You're a loser. You need Jesus and you better step up. That is very, very, very hostile to modern suburban love, eat, pray, you know, Christianity. Or to eat, pray, love, or I get it all messed up. Right.

Whatever. But look at some of the most successful pastors who were able to build strong churches of working class men. Andrew in the audience here would tell you Mark Driscoll did this at Mars Hill in Seattle, and he's doing it again in Phoenix. I know people all have opinions of Mark Driscoll, but it's just the fact he was able to build a church. Right.

Would you agree, Frank? And it was very masculine, very direct. And it's there is a template there.

There is a blueprint there. And it is a hot gospel that does not pander, that says the politically incorrect but biblically correct stuff. And men will come for spiciness. And that's what the gospel is. In fact, one of the biggest misconceptions, not just in the church, but in our society is that love means approval. Love does not mean approval.

Parents, you know this. If you approve of everything your 13 year old wants to do, are you loving? No, you're unloving. You're enabling evil if you approve of everything somebody wants to do. That's why so many churches have gone off the rails with men especially, because they think, oh, we're just going to approve of everyone. We're just going to love everyone. When men go, no, that's wrong. We can't allow that. We need to stand against that.

So smart. And Jesus said this, don't think I came to bring peace. I came to bring a sword. This is going to divide mother and daughter, father and son. How often have you heard those passages talked about? In fact, I got a text 10 minutes before I was going on last night from somebody in my extended family that said, holy blank, Frank, I can't believe you're doing this. You're on the wrong side of history. Because I'm an event with President Trump. And guess what?

I don't care what she said, because... How did I know I was a woman? I had no idea. No, no, because if we're going to be divided over Jesus, I'm fine with that. You should be following Jesus. And I got to say one other thing about this, Charles.

This was so... I learned this from my mentor who said this. He said in nearly all cases, fraternity will overcome theology. What did he mean by that? He meant that...

I'll give you an example. If some child comes out as trans or gay, what's probably more likely to happen is the parent is going to throw God under the bus and side with whatever the child wants out of love and approval, when in fact that child needs the approach we mentioned earlier. Love does not mean approval.

You've got to make sure that your number one priority is God. Not what the culture wants. Not what your spouse wants. Not what your kids want. Not what CNN wants. Not even what Donald Trump wants.

What he wants. And to close that out, as we have the connectals, is that men will be more likely to go to a turning point or a Trump rally because there's direct no's we won't put up with and these are rules that they won't get at church. At church it's a lot of acceptance and love and compassion. At a Trump rally it's like, no, we're going to deport people. And that speaks to a masculine energy of order. They see chaos in society and they want order.

They go to church and they see a welcoming and a platforming of the chaos. And they say, I work too hard. I'm a plumber.

I'm working 60 hours a week. I don't need to go hear from some guy in skinny jeans tell me that I need to go give more money for his coffee bar. Give it up for Frank Couric, everybody. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always. freedom at charliekirk.com Thanks so much for listening and God bless.